Going to be interesting to see whether Giles or Wightman get the 3rd spot in the 800. Burgin and Pattison are assured of spots with their top 2 here. I’d be inclined to give Wightman the discretionary pick as he’s been quicker and now has no spot for the 1500, but he pulled out of these champs injured and so perhaps Giles gets the 3rd spot on account of experience.
As for Gill, she looks so exciting, could be a wildcard for a medal at the Olympics given how young she is and how much upward potential she has.
I think if Jake is fit for the olympics and he is up for it, they'll probably go with Jake Wightman, else Elliot Giles will probably get the final spot if Jake Wightman isn't fit for the Olympics.
and I agree on Phoebe Gill, our Womens Middle Distance team is looking good for Olympics, especially the 800m, I believe competing against a larger field of faster 800m runners will help push her to a new PB, and yeah, maybe even a medal, she looked so Strong in the final, and comfortably pulled away from Jemma Reekie which shows Promise for the olympics.
Depends on fitness for Wightman, but if his injury is only minor, I'd take him. Giles has gone to a lot of champs, but hasn't medalled in 8 years now, I think he's had enough opportunities.
Yeah he's a bit of a chronic underachiever at the major champs (they've had a few in this event). Real shame Jake isn't gonna be in the 1500 metres because that's still much his better event for me.
British athletics pundits are constantly talking about how much strength we have with our 800 runners right now, but I'm not seeing it. Other than Pattison last year at the worlds, and a couple of medalists at smaller champs, our 800 guys perform significantly below what out 1500 guys do.
Yeah I can see that, tbh over recent years I always thought we've been much stronger on the women's side for distance running with some good performances in the men's 1500m, but we struggle to get up there on the other events for men's distance running.
He still might be. Mills is on record saying he only wanted to run the 1500m and place top 2 in the hopes he would get selected in the 5000m. They said it on comms or something. My thinking would be Mills gets the 5000m spot, Wightman the 1500m spot and Giles the 800m spot.
With James West winning the 5000, that leaves Dever as the only automatic qualifier, so Mills will likely get a 5000 spot along with Sam Atkin. I heard that Mills wanted to double at the Olympics, but getting comprehensively outkicked by Gourley suggests he might not fare so well against the big hitters over this distance. I'd prefer to see him just do the 5000.
Surprised by a lot of the comments. You run the middle distances you know that you pass on the inside at your own risk. It's high risk high reward. The bigger you are, the riskier the move.
Giles wasn't running on lane line - his outside foot didn't come close to even stepping on the outside lane. Giles holds lane 1 coming off the bend, doesn't leave it, and is still running pretty central in the lane. Maybe if you're in the women's 800m you could get through that gap but not happening with two guys as big as Giles and Kerr. Kerr holds his line because he knows if he checks his run to try get on Giles' outside then he is going to lose momentum.
This is an all or nothing play by Kerr and he wound up with nothing.
https://preview.redd.it/lf5m6pctir9d1.png?width=988&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e59525edf577e81cd23193f493d631b85d8a0e5
100% agree. Kerr got outkicked by Giles 200m before finish and basically wanted to cut the loop, hug the left line and ALSO pass on the left.
If he is so confident in his finishing sprint, he should have just go right and charge it diagonally up to the 3rd or 4th line.
Giles is not at fault here whatsoever.
Had exact same convo with friend and what is pissy is the Kerr was running this for fun...he's a pick for 1500m...so his arrogance has poss cost someone a chance to improve likelihood of being picked. Kerr can have his arrogance but not at someone else's expense.
As I said to someone else - when you go for an all or nothing move like this you have to be okay with the idea that you and the other person might go down if you get it wrong. If it's an Olympic final, you and the other person going for gold, I get it. But yeah 100%, this was the race for Giles to make the Olympics while for Kerr this was just about in his own words "a bit of sharpening and fun."
We'd need another angle but Kerr definitely looks like he was able to pull almost even with Giles on the inside and it isn't until Giles moves slightly to his left and into Kerr that problems happen. Kerr didn't put himself in the best spot there but no for Giles to cut into him like that. Giles honestly looks like he's fading and knew if Kerr passed him he was going to lose his spot.
Again, my argument is that it isn't a case of "Kerr didn't put himself in the best spot" it's that Kerr was in a spot with two outcomes - miracle pass or collision, and that athletes know the risk. You've got to be okay with the possibility you go and your opponent go down when you try for a half gap.
100% agree Giles looks like he's fading, if you watch back and track where Giles' feet fall in slow mo you can see that their alignment is very erratic indicative of him tying up. But to me that compliments what I am saying - part of the massive risk of passing someone in the last 100m on the rail is everyone is exhausted and their balance is the worst it is going to be in the whole race. You try the same move on lap one when everyone is fresher and the risk is lower.
McLear, who came third, doesn't have the standard, so he can't go. The third spot is discretionary but finishing third at the trials puts you in a good position to be chosen for that spot, but only if you have the standard.
Yeah was impressed by that, and it's all up in the air really, first two is usually a guarantee, but then the third spot is usually reserved for pre-selected athletes(like Josh Kerr) or for last minute decisions like here. I imagine he has a slim chance if Jake Wightman falls, but if Jake does fall though, they might well just go with Elliot Giles since he has the UKA Olympic Standard along with Jake and Ben.
Yeah, that's Elliot Giles, he is Ranked 3rd in the UK for 800m and 2nd for 1500m, him and Josh Kerr along with Ben Pattison who won(Ranked number 2 in UK) were the favourites in this race. Also Elliot Giles has been around for a while now with many championship races, so no excuses here really. Although Josh Kerr was pre-selected for 1500m so he has a spot in the Olympics anyway, which is why he picked the 800m here.
The speed Ben Pattison was coming through I think he was going to win fall or no fall.
I think nothing intentional from Giles but poor race execution. He had good positioning and should have focused on powering through to the line instead of moving out wide then trying to cut back in again. This is not the first time we have seen poor tactical/race execution from Giles this season. So, I doubt he will be selected.
Hope Kerr is ok because that was quite a slam.
No idea who they will take through as third selection for 800; think Wightman is the best bet.
No I highly doubt it with so many ranked above him in the 800m atm(he is currently 13th rn), I think Elliot Giles would have a better chance at an appeal to get into the team, and tbh I think even if he did, he'd still focus on the 1500m.
He doesn't have the standard, so no. He chose to race 800 at the trials to sharpen up his speed & tactics (perhaps getting a bit more than he bargained for there...), he never wanted to run 800 in Paris.
I don't know how different it is from person to person, and it's hard to describe, but you can sense when someone is coming up behind you, although he might not have known exactly who it was. I don't think it was intentional, but still, he's got experience and it's not something you'd expect from someone as experienced as him, and Josh Kerr will probably be having second thoughts now on attempting to pass on the inside for future races even if he wasn't in the wrong lol
I was an 800 runner in my track days and I'd definitely feel Kerr on my left shoulder, but I'd be surprised as shit he tried to go through that hole. If I'm that far in lane 1, I'd expect the inside to be a bit of a safe space, so to speak. Kerr's arm hitting my back on the inside would be downright alarming even if I didn't fall.
It doesn't make it not Giles' fault. It's just that Kerr's move was very irregular.
Yeah I am always a bit on the fence with this stuff, it's like with Sifan Hassan in some of her races where she drifts outwards, although I don't think it's always intentional, I do think an athlete can almost work on not doing it like working on improving running form etc.
Although I am on the opinion of athletes being able to close any gaps on the inside, I do think this was not one of those moments to do that, also, it was well into the home straight by the point he drifted inwards, so if this was his plan, I think he'd be in the wrong as there is no point at this stage, you'd be better off just running in a straight line.
It is if there is a gap, there was a big enough gap at 100m, so I think Josh decided to stick to the inside line(Elliot was closer to the outside line, so a big enough gap), however Elliot rapidly drifted inwards over the next 40-50m, making the gap too narrow to pass, but Josh was already right up to Elliot and so they collided.
My opinion is Josh Kerr completely misjudged taking the risk(and should have swung round the outside of Elliot) and Elliot Giles was too full of lactic and wasn't completely in control(I think alot of people don't realise drifting isn't always intentional and is hard to counteract, especially when your full of lactic).
It is allowed, but you’re not entitled to a space there or anything. This is pretty 50 50 in my opinion - squeezing through on the inside is a risky move but Giles drifts a bit as well.
Giles moved from the outside of the lane to the inside, while not technically illegal, it wasn't very smart and could have avoided this whole debacle had he just put his head down and powered straight to the line.
Giles drifts to the outside of Lane 1 coming off the turn, thinking he’s just battling the guys to his right… realizes he’s left an opening and moves to close it down quickly… freeze the frame at 1:36.5 and again at 1:38.5… 100% his fault
Going to be interesting to see whether Giles or Wightman get the 3rd spot in the 800. Burgin and Pattison are assured of spots with their top 2 here. I’d be inclined to give Wightman the discretionary pick as he’s been quicker and now has no spot for the 1500, but he pulled out of these champs injured and so perhaps Giles gets the 3rd spot on account of experience. As for Gill, she looks so exciting, could be a wildcard for a medal at the Olympics given how young she is and how much upward potential she has.
I think if Jake is fit for the olympics and he is up for it, they'll probably go with Jake Wightman, else Elliot Giles will probably get the final spot if Jake Wightman isn't fit for the Olympics. and I agree on Phoebe Gill, our Womens Middle Distance team is looking good for Olympics, especially the 800m, I believe competing against a larger field of faster 800m runners will help push her to a new PB, and yeah, maybe even a medal, she looked so Strong in the final, and comfortably pulled away from Jemma Reekie which shows Promise for the olympics.
Depends on fitness for Wightman, but if his injury is only minor, I'd take him. Giles has gone to a lot of champs, but hasn't medalled in 8 years now, I think he's had enough opportunities.
Yeah he's a bit of a chronic underachiever at the major champs (they've had a few in this event). Real shame Jake isn't gonna be in the 1500 metres because that's still much his better event for me.
British athletics pundits are constantly talking about how much strength we have with our 800 runners right now, but I'm not seeing it. Other than Pattison last year at the worlds, and a couple of medalists at smaller champs, our 800 guys perform significantly below what out 1500 guys do.
Yeah I can see that, tbh over recent years I always thought we've been much stronger on the women's side for distance running with some good performances in the men's 1500m, but we struggle to get up there on the other events for men's distance running.
He still might be. Mills is on record saying he only wanted to run the 1500m and place top 2 in the hopes he would get selected in the 5000m. They said it on comms or something. My thinking would be Mills gets the 5000m spot, Wightman the 1500m spot and Giles the 800m spot.
With James West winning the 5000, that leaves Dever as the only automatic qualifier, so Mills will likely get a 5000 spot along with Sam Atkin. I heard that Mills wanted to double at the Olympics, but getting comprehensively outkicked by Gourley suggests he might not fare so well against the big hitters over this distance. I'd prefer to see him just do the 5000.
Surprised by a lot of the comments. You run the middle distances you know that you pass on the inside at your own risk. It's high risk high reward. The bigger you are, the riskier the move. Giles wasn't running on lane line - his outside foot didn't come close to even stepping on the outside lane. Giles holds lane 1 coming off the bend, doesn't leave it, and is still running pretty central in the lane. Maybe if you're in the women's 800m you could get through that gap but not happening with two guys as big as Giles and Kerr. Kerr holds his line because he knows if he checks his run to try get on Giles' outside then he is going to lose momentum. This is an all or nothing play by Kerr and he wound up with nothing. https://preview.redd.it/lf5m6pctir9d1.png?width=988&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e59525edf577e81cd23193f493d631b85d8a0e5
100% agree. Kerr got outkicked by Giles 200m before finish and basically wanted to cut the loop, hug the left line and ALSO pass on the left. If he is so confident in his finishing sprint, he should have just go right and charge it diagonally up to the 3rd or 4th line. Giles is not at fault here whatsoever.
Had exact same convo with friend and what is pissy is the Kerr was running this for fun...he's a pick for 1500m...so his arrogance has poss cost someone a chance to improve likelihood of being picked. Kerr can have his arrogance but not at someone else's expense.
As I said to someone else - when you go for an all or nothing move like this you have to be okay with the idea that you and the other person might go down if you get it wrong. If it's an Olympic final, you and the other person going for gold, I get it. But yeah 100%, this was the race for Giles to make the Olympics while for Kerr this was just about in his own words "a bit of sharpening and fun."
Agreed
We'd need another angle but Kerr definitely looks like he was able to pull almost even with Giles on the inside and it isn't until Giles moves slightly to his left and into Kerr that problems happen. Kerr didn't put himself in the best spot there but no for Giles to cut into him like that. Giles honestly looks like he's fading and knew if Kerr passed him he was going to lose his spot.
Again, my argument is that it isn't a case of "Kerr didn't put himself in the best spot" it's that Kerr was in a spot with two outcomes - miracle pass or collision, and that athletes know the risk. You've got to be okay with the possibility you go and your opponent go down when you try for a half gap. 100% agree Giles looks like he's fading, if you watch back and track where Giles' feet fall in slow mo you can see that their alignment is very erratic indicative of him tying up. But to me that compliments what I am saying - part of the massive risk of passing someone in the last 100m on the rail is everyone is exhausted and their balance is the worst it is going to be in the whole race. You try the same move on lap one when everyone is fresher and the risk is lower.
What an insane recovery for the guy who finished 3rd. Hurdles the fall and still manages to catch someone at the line
Does third place even make the team?
McLear, who came third, doesn't have the standard, so he can't go. The third spot is discretionary but finishing third at the trials puts you in a good position to be chosen for that spot, but only if you have the standard.
Yeah was impressed by that, and it's all up in the air really, first two is usually a guarantee, but then the third spot is usually reserved for pre-selected athletes(like Josh Kerr) or for last minute decisions like here. I imagine he has a slim chance if Jake Wightman falls, but if Jake does fall though, they might well just go with Elliot Giles since he has the UKA Olympic Standard along with Jake and Ben.
The guy in front did him dirty with that cut off
Yeah, that's Elliot Giles, he is Ranked 3rd in the UK for 800m and 2nd for 1500m, him and Josh Kerr along with Ben Pattison who won(Ranked number 2 in UK) were the favourites in this race. Also Elliot Giles has been around for a while now with many championship races, so no excuses here really. Although Josh Kerr was pre-selected for 1500m so he has a spot in the Olympics anyway, which is why he picked the 800m here.
The speed Ben Pattison was coming through I think he was going to win fall or no fall. I think nothing intentional from Giles but poor race execution. He had good positioning and should have focused on powering through to the line instead of moving out wide then trying to cut back in again. This is not the first time we have seen poor tactical/race execution from Giles this season. So, I doubt he will be selected. Hope Kerr is ok because that was quite a slam. No idea who they will take through as third selection for 800; think Wightman is the best bet.
Could Kerr still be chosen for the 800 in the British system? If so do you think he would run both?
No I highly doubt it with so many ranked above him in the 800m atm(he is currently 13th rn), I think Elliot Giles would have a better chance at an appeal to get into the team, and tbh I think even if he did, he'd still focus on the 1500m.
He doesn't have the standard, so no. He chose to race 800 at the trials to sharpen up his speed & tactics (perhaps getting a bit more than he bargained for there...), he never wanted to run 800 in Paris.
Honestly looks even worse than just the cut off now that I'm watching the replay it almost looks like he intentionally tripped him.
Nah, not intentional - he's actually looking to his right while Kerr is trying to come through on his left.
I've never raced track, so I could be wrong but that did (and still does) look unintentional to me. I don't think Giles knows Kerr is there
I don't know how different it is from person to person, and it's hard to describe, but you can sense when someone is coming up behind you, although he might not have known exactly who it was. I don't think it was intentional, but still, he's got experience and it's not something you'd expect from someone as experienced as him, and Josh Kerr will probably be having second thoughts now on attempting to pass on the inside for future races even if he wasn't in the wrong lol
I was an 800 runner in my track days and I'd definitely feel Kerr on my left shoulder, but I'd be surprised as shit he tried to go through that hole. If I'm that far in lane 1, I'd expect the inside to be a bit of a safe space, so to speak. Kerr's arm hitting my back on the inside would be downright alarming even if I didn't fall. It doesn't make it not Giles' fault. It's just that Kerr's move was very irregular.
That’s on Giles, you shouldn’t be drifting across in the home straight.
Yeah I am always a bit on the fence with this stuff, it's like with Sifan Hassan in some of her races where she drifts outwards, although I don't think it's always intentional, I do think an athlete can almost work on not doing it like working on improving running form etc. Although I am on the opinion of athletes being able to close any gaps on the inside, I do think this was not one of those moments to do that, also, it was well into the home straight by the point he drifted inwards, so if this was his plan, I think he'd be in the wrong as there is no point at this stage, you'd be better off just running in a straight line.
that’s so unlucky what happens in a situation like this? how would they decide or does it not matter they just go based on placement regardless?
literally do not like watching the 800m anymore because shit like this is so STRESSFUL damn
Is passing people on the left even allowed?
It is if there is a gap, there was a big enough gap at 100m, so I think Josh decided to stick to the inside line(Elliot was closer to the outside line, so a big enough gap), however Elliot rapidly drifted inwards over the next 40-50m, making the gap too narrow to pass, but Josh was already right up to Elliot and so they collided. My opinion is Josh Kerr completely misjudged taking the risk(and should have swung round the outside of Elliot) and Elliot Giles was too full of lactic and wasn't completely in control(I think alot of people don't realise drifting isn't always intentional and is hard to counteract, especially when your full of lactic).
I think I fully agree with this take, especially the speed wobbles when your lactic is built up.
It is allowed, but you’re not entitled to a space there or anything. This is pretty 50 50 in my opinion - squeezing through on the inside is a risky move but Giles drifts a bit as well.
Giles moved from the outside of the lane to the inside, while not technically illegal, it wasn't very smart and could have avoided this whole debacle had he just put his head down and powered straight to the line.
Giles drifts to the outside of Lane 1 coming off the turn, thinking he’s just battling the guys to his right… realizes he’s left an opening and moves to close it down quickly… freeze the frame at 1:36.5 and again at 1:38.5… 100% his fault
Guy in black is at fault, he should be DQ'd.