The way that I see it, is that I think the story will wrap up less so in the album and more so in the album era if that makes sense? And if that's the case, then we are only at the beginning. Like when you think of an album cycle, the album comes out, tour happens, a couple of music video releases all spread out over 2-3 years. But for Clancy, we've already got the album, plus 14 music videos in the span of two months. And then of course the tour.
So, especially with the way Tyler's been talking on twitter, I think it's highly likely the story will still be finished under the Clancy headline. Whether that's a video in the vein of "I am Clancy', a Clancy Part 2 album, a Clancy deluxe album, I don't know. But the era isn't over yet, so I'm waiting until the curtain actually closes before I make judgments.
That said, I totally get your frustrations though. It's something I've been wrestling to understand too.
Apologies in advance lol. I didn’t think ⬇️ was going to get so long
I agree; we’ve just entered the Clancy era/cycle (though we’ve been in Clancy era this whole time, since at least ST, if not all the way back to NPI - this is a hill I’d die on 🤣).
Your comment is so well written and it’s connecting dots in my brain.
At the end of PS, we see the battle begin. We don’t know how it concludes yet. We haven’t been given that vantage point yet. Unless we have and we’ve missed it up to this point.
In Shy Away - “Don’t circle the track. Just break the cycle in half…” Essentially, change it up. Do something different.
With the Clancy album, Tyler literally broke the album cycle in half.
Annnd Tyler is Clancy/Trash/all Bishops/the vulture (another one of those hills lol). He’s telling us the narrative with both the lyrics and the lore/characters.
I think there are a couple of possible scenarios that could happen and make the conclusion clear to all of us.
1. The existing storyline we have may be reformatted and presented to us from a different perspective/pov. This wouldn’t necessarily require any additional new music.
It could be (a): spending the album cycle re-shooting specific Clancy mv’s from a different perspective. IMO, Blurryface, Trench, SAI (min) tell mostly the same story from various perspectives. Once you understand all the perspectives, you have the puzzle put together. “Lay the fibers side by side and you’ll begin to understand” There is also “The Story” playlist of mv’s on their yt channel. This is a key - I’m sure others have mentioned. We should be matching up songs & mv’s that tell the same story from different pov’s.
Or it could be (b): Remastered versions of specific songs - 12 to be exact. Not new music, just updated. (“fool you once, it’s been 25 times”; “300 tracks in my Adidas track jacket”- math factoid: 1/25 of 300 is 12 👀) This is the option I’m leaning towards likely.
Or it could be
2. 12 brand new songs to make that double album. Done over the course of this current cycle. I’ve got nothing to back this option up honestly. I really don’t believe this is what’s going to happen.
I’m grateful that this is being spread out across some time. We get to savor it. I have so much respect for what these guys do. The layers, the plot. At the same time, the lyrics alone speak to my core. The rest is icing on the enormous cake 😂
I just get a good chuckle out of the simple fact that basically nothing pre-Clancy was freely given by Tyler/Josh to us \[the fans\] in regards to upcoming content, straight answers, etc. Instead, it was all of these cryptic puzzles and hidden messages, quite a bit of puzzles, theory crafting, what have you. Then, leading up to Clancy they drop the 'I am Clancy' YT video and are 'straightforward' with us \[the fans\] for once.
I'm just enjoying it for what it is, but even going into Clancy, I had zero expectations there would be an end in the traditional sense, of any kind.
I wouldn't even call the I am clancy video straightforward because we still don't know if Tyler being Clancy is a true retcon, or if Tyler took Clancy's name. Sure, they might be saving those details for a future lore drop, but with a detail that large and one that fundamentally changes aspects of the lore they should really set the record straight.
I remember watching an interview during the trench era when talking about there being 2 more albums to complete the story Tyler said something along the lines of @i don’t think a lot of people will be too happy with the way it ends” so I think that helped set my expectations for a cliffhanger Tyler ending. Also one of TOP biggest messages is to keep fighting. Clancy is someone Tyler made up in his head to fight the bishops, so long as Tyler’s alive and fighting I’d imagine Clancy is too.
I feel like you can relate every song except the craving to lore, you just have to think about it a little, every song has at least 2 meanings, and people can interpret them however it makes them feel, you just have to relate it to the lore and it’s really eye opening
This is how I feel. I think people expected every song to be like Nico and the niners. I think it ended just fine.. Music is supposed to be up to interpretation. I think it was smart to end the story on a cliffhanger. We know the banditos won and dema was saved, that's about all that needs to be said. The rest is for us to imagine
Exactly. This is what I don't understand. People are reaaaaalllly stretching and trying to make the odd Vessel song fit the lore, or insist Blurryface songs fit parts of the lore that almost certainly didn't exist back then, but they can't possibly accept there is a double meaning to the songs on Clancy? It makes no sense to me. There are clear double meanings on most songs.
I would say that you actually can connect The Craving to the lore too! The line "if I found my body in chains" always reminds of this 'prison' in DEMA from SAI era that Clancy was supposedly kept in. So I interpret it as Tyler kinda explaining the metaphor of this prison and connecting it to the real life, showing us what it symbolises. So like maybe this prison would be something like this overall negative headspace that Jenna is able to get him out of etc.
Oh thank you so true, I always give those mental health themed lyrics that kind of second meaning too, because dema is in his head, thank you for pointing this out to me
Sorry you’re annoyed about the “ending” but keep in mind Tyler and Josh are musicians first. The lore is cool and a great visualization about an ongoing battle but not the main thing they’re trying to sell us.
They want to sell us the music they make. The advertisement of this being the end of the lore was heavily implied yes, and also Tyler did act coy during the album release livestream about this being the end, but at the end of the day, he can drag out the story as long as he wants while making music that coincides with this lore.
I think Clancy is easier to digest when you don’t focus too heavily on the lore stuff and just enjoy it for what it is. An album made by two extremely talented people who want to make music for us to buy and enjoy together.
I know the lore is fun, and I’ve enjoyed following the story, but I think a lot of the disappointment from some fans comes from an unnecessary hyper-fixation on the lore. Personally, I think the lore songs are significantly less interesting than the songs that directly speak to Tyler’s growth, struggles, maturity, etc., which is where Clancy thrives.
The actual content, philosophy, and message of most of Clancy’s non lore songs are imo, so much more meaningful and important than the type of songs that is seems like many people wanted.
It was the same with Trench. I loved the lore focused songs, they’re a lot of fun, but songs like Chlorine and Neon Gravestones are so much more interesting to me.
Enjoy the lore, enjoy the puzzles, get excited for whatever the boys have in store next (I really don’t think the story is over). But try to look at Clancy as a really amazing and mature album that can stand alone on its own merits. The story is fun, but it isn’t everything.
While it may be an unnecessary hyper-fixation its definitely not intentional, I was born to be focused and insane over this 🙏 trying to recover though because it makes it less fun for me when my insane expectations are out of proportion to whats actually happening. I agree that the non-lore songs of Clancy are way more meaningful. Will never take them for granted
I get that neon gravestones have been incorporated into the lore, but the idea that neon gravestones is an actual “lore song” itself is just not true. It has a clear meaning and message completely separate from the lore.
Again, they incorporate neon gravestones into the lore, but the idea that it was written to be a lore song is just not accurate. Obviously everything can be linked into the lore given the entire story is a metaphor for Tyler’s experiences, but the song has a very clear and real world meaning completely separate from anything Dema or Trench related.
Bro all the DEMA stuff has real life meaning too. It is both a fleshed out story yet also allegory. Saying Neon Gravestones is not a lore song is silly
What is with people not understanding Neon Gravestones is a lore song
Bandito directly references "neon"
Neon Gravestones is a perfect example of using a motif or symbol from the lore and not having it bound to the lore, it can say so much more, while also progressing the story of the album
Thats what most of the songs on Clancy fail to do at all.
And it has a very clear lore meaning as well. A song can be two things at once. It clearly explains the motivation of vialism and Dema. While also having a pertinent real life message. Why can't it be both?
For me it's like, why would I *want* it to end? Them leaning into the next thing means in and of itself that there will be a next thing. I'm just enjoying what they give us and look forward to more in the future. The album is amazing in my opinion, and is right up there with Trench for me. Why be in such a hurry for the end that you stop enjoying the amazing journey?
I think it was sad because we *know* the ending is going to be off-the-charts epic, and so we were ready to experience that on June 21st. And then to have that not happen was disappointing.
If they told us going in that Paladin Strait was definitively *not* going to be the last one (which I think they might have but people kept denying it?) I would have enjoyed it even more for what it **is**.
But I'm glad it *does* mean we'll have at least one more high-budget music video because they are incredible and the more I have to rewatch the merrier 🤩
if it never ends it just feels like there are no "stakes" necessarily. like the reason stories are so compelling is because of the conclusion, good or bad, its part of it. I would never want to be a part of a never-ending dance party, no matter how fun it started off. I'd get tired man
:( I'd wanna take a nap :(
Personally, I don’t have much beef towards the ending “per se”. Since depression and hard emotions usually don’t have and end, it makes sense that even the fight between Clancy and Nico keeps going. What I have disappointment towards to is the fact that this album was advertised as lore-savy, but it really was not. The album is still good, but I hoped for more. C’est la vie I guess hahah
*I can't help but feel vaguely like they sold us on some S Tier legendary final chapter, only to give us filler and a "ok we might see you guys later idkkkk :3 idk guys hehehehe! theres moreeeee..jk jk jk.. unless?"*
This is how I felt after the PS music video. I had, admittedly, way too high expectations on that 1min something of silence in the middle of the audio track, guess I was waiting for some sort of revelation and got let down. Badly. I had to leave the room after the video, that's how mad I was about it.
Now with a fresher, cooler head and having watched it multiple times, plus thinking of the album cycle side of things, I have come to the realization that they could hardly have thrown any "grand finale" epic showdown in the PS video and not disappoint many of us. Besides, it would be a bit strange(?) to go out and tour for a year+ after dropping the finale, I think.
We have enough content to make do for until the end of the tour (including obviously the album, the videos, the shows...), then I guess we will have to at the very least hold our judgement until after the record, when the actual ending will be revealed. It is a bit disappointing, but it could have been worse. I'd rather wait, enjoy what I have while I have it, then be smacked in the face by whatever they conjured up as the end of the story, than have an instant gratification moment with a lame ending...
Tl;dr: I get you, believe me I really do, but let's wait until the story is actually over to judge whether our disappointment is justified.
I enjoy the music as-is. I also enjoy being part of the story, with its twists and turns. The sense of unknown, the anticipation etc. i just chill and enjoy the moment cos one day, the lore will come to an end.
That’s where you and so many are mistaken, this was never a story, it was always a euphemism. It was always a way for Tyler to visualize his mental health struggles both past and present. As such it does not need a conclusive ending and should never have one because mental health issues never end, they just change.
A lot of you hyped this up to Avengers Infinity War levels, it was never going to be that.
Tyler always said that even if this story was an "euphemism" like you said , it was before all a story and he wanted to make true characters and not just some metaphor. And he always said this album will be the end of the lore.
So I understand op
well, then you can't say that everyone is "mistaken" if they are going off of what *he* said.
But I agree, it would be unfitting if the ending was just "he kills the bishops and he wins forever!!! the end!!!"
I mean, the band kinda hyped it up that way. Not like an “avengers” movie, but they did tell us in interviews that the story would have a nice ending, wrapped in a bow.
If this is the end of the dema storyline, cool. It was fun. But I don’t think it’s over. I just think we have to wait longer
Edit: I also get kind of annoyed when some people here claim to know exactly what they are planning, or that they understand better than others. None of us actually know what the hell theyre going to do
Do you mean symbolism, or do you really mean euphemism? Euphemisms use nicer (or more vague) words to describe something unpleasant in a less unpleasant way. I suppose "I'm trying to break out of Dema" \*could\* be a euphemism for "I'm trying to keep my sanity from falling apart." I don't think the word is meant to be used quite that way though.
super good point! I understand the euphemisms of course but I still just kind of assumed the "lore" was the "whole point." part of why I posted this was so I could hear something like this and get a grip so I'm glad you put it in such a good way
Legend was a non lore song about current struggles he was facing while writing Trench, and Oldies Station SOMEWHAT reminded me of a similar thing. I just said "non-lore songs relevent to Tyler's current state" in a dumb way my bad :(
I suppose I don’t know the lore like a hardcore fan. I think there’s not enough catchy hook moments. Backslide, routines in the night, and next semester have them all. There’s very few OH FUCK THAT WAS COOL moments in the record for me. But the ones I got are heavy hitters imo.
I really agree with you. I was pretty disappointed with how Clancy was advertised as the end but it wasn’t. Even if this is just the start of the era, the boys still made it seem like the album was the end.
I fully agree with the sentiment you’re describing here. It’s a good album, but the marketing made it seem like it would be way more lore heavy than it is.
Even the cover art being the two of them in front of a huge inferno, indicated to me that there would be some sort of “epic” conclusion. Honestly, no chances from SAI was more the type of thing I was expecting than anything we actually got from the album.
It’s also bizarre how many of the videos take place in the snow, given the fiery / red marketing. I get that some of them were more fun DIY videos, but still, it’s really strange to me.
I agree with all the other comments here I think it's more about the era then the album and who doesn't want to get more excited because there's more I know I'm sad when things end it's just nature so to think wait this could be the end and it's not, it's fun, I'm excited and I think wether it's a deluxe album or something of the sort we will get the end soon and that's what counts it's okay, be excited for what's to come and enjoy what we do have while we wait
I definitely get where you're coming from, it's kinda felt like we keep getting strung along about when things are going to end. For me, I initially thought when I heard paladin strait, that would wrap things up. I went to the listening parties and when I heard the song, I thought that was the end, and that maybe it would be further elaborated on in the music video. At first I didn't know how to feel about the ending, but I began to really like it. It ends with Clancy finally facing his problems head on, and that's very symbolic in the metaphor for the story. That's gonna look different for everyone and I think leaving it on that note made me think about what facing my own problems would be like. It's a pretty strong message. But then during the live stream, he said " you tell me, is this the end?". So I thought it would be wrapped up in the music video, and a month later the music video ends basically the same way the song does. But apparently that's still not the end, and I'm left feeling kinda disappointed that it keeps being teased when I liked the ending that we got already. The fact that now, that isn't actually the ending, kinda diminishes how I felt about the end of the album originally, and that kinda sucks because it's starting to feel like these delays on the ending are hurting the themes and story they are trying to tell rather than making them better.
exactly dude! and Im very confused with the people responding being like "ermmm acshually the bad ending of paladin strait is the ending you should be happy with, why are you mad about a bad ending" when im mad with NO ending! I also had mixed feelings about PS being the end during the listening party, but still it grew on me. I would have been happy with that being the end. how many times does clancy have to get put in a headlock by nico before this story ends? all I can hope for is less than 6 times at this point
>My major disappointment is that Clancy has been ADVERTISED as the ending, ADVERTISED as the last little bow tying everything together before our next adventure. I was EXPECTING some fresh sounds like Overcompensate, some insane progression to the story. I was very excited to see where the Paladin Strait mv went, very excited to see where all of it went, because I had faith.. had hope that they would just let it end.
>I can't help but feel vaguely like they sold us on some S Tier legendary final chapter, only to give us filler and a "ok we might see you guys later idkkkk :3 idk guys hehehehe! theres moreeeee..jk jk jk.. unless?"
Yeah, this is the boat I'm in. Thankfully, I am a very new fan (to the lore) so I haven't been waiting for 9 years 😅 Plus Clancy has been like 80% of what I have been listening to since it came out, so I am definitely not upset.
yeah. i like the album, but what was advertised as Trench 2.0 ended up being Scaled and Icy 2.0.
That's not a bad thing, objectively. I like SAI a lot, but I really thought it's a one off, the songwriting on Clancy is very similar to SAI. Not what I was expecting, at all. What makes me the most dissapointed is Tyler's lack of "trying" ?
It feels like he just wrote verse, chorus and didn't really bother with bridges or interesting song progressions. Look at Craving or Lavish... or almost any other song. Chord progressions changes are not very excited, lots of songs feel very samey throughout, where's the adventure? How can the second verse of navigating be ONE SENTENCE?
I agree with you. I feel like comments are trying to gaslight you into thinking you're being unreasonable when you expected to get what they quite literally advertised
people are acting like im taking the album for granted or being entitled and its starting to peeve me brother 😭 but I really did expect this, I mean I posted to reddit. I tried to be as clear as possible and people are still getting mad over misunderstandings and whatnot
People here made up their minds that every criticsm, even mild and said in a kind manner, is horrible betrayal. Same happens when someone dares to say SAI isn't amazing like some of their other albums
I kinda agree honestly. This was very heavily advertised as the final lore album, and it all ends on a cliffhanger. I'm still hanging on to more songs coming out, I just hope we don't have to wait until 2025 because that will be somewhat disappointing that we'd have to wait a year for something that was marketed and implied to end when the album came out.
For me, though, it's not really about the lore per sé. Heck I wasn't even really interested in the lore until the I Am Clancy video and I delved deeper into the story and what everything means. It's a great metaphor for mental health, and I view each album (beginning with Blurryface) as each stage in battling your own demons and inner struggles. And Clancy was supposed to be the stage where you finally stand up and fight, hoping to win.
With Clancy, I was extremely curious how Tyler was going to end this 9 year long story, and more specifically, I was curious about the symbolization of it all. With a band that, from the very beginning, was speaking about the struggles of going through difficult times, I was curious what was going to happen in Paladin Strait. Will Clancy defeat Nico? Will Dema get burned down? Will the Banditos win or lose? How will Tyler symbolize and describe the journey of finally defeating with your inner demons, and if you can really defeat them at all?
I was so curious and excited to see how it was going to end... and I still am, because the album didn't conclude everything.
In the end though, I still really like the album. I just don't think it should've been advertised as the conclusion to the lore if it wasn't. I really hoped we'd get something on 6/25, but seeing as we didn't, people are speculating on June 2025. I guess we'll see. But seeing as the "final battle is after the album", I don't think Clancy should've been described as the album to put a "nice bow on everything" if it ends on a major cliffhanger.
But honestly, as much as I wrote about this, it's not bugging me TOO much. The album is great and that's pretty much enough for me.
i think its perfectly reasonable to be kind of irritated they said this album was the finale and then it actually wasn't. i say this as someone not really invested in the lore as i used to be, it's silly and misleading and i get why people are annoyed.
especially now since it seems like clancy deluxe or whatever the finale will actually be isnt coming out until probably after tour. kind of a silly rugpull but it is what it is. the people talking about it was never a story or its just a concept or whatever is kind of like.... its obviously a story thats going to have an ending, the endings just not here yet. its ok to be annoyed by that
its not entitlement lmfao, im not invested in the lore like that. i just think of course some people will be confused when an ending was promised and not delivered 🤷♂️its not like yall need to defend them like that, of course they knew some people would be upset and they still think this is the correct way to tell the story. i think thats cool and look forward to it, im just not surprised some dont think thats cool
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Paladin Strait was the perfect ending
stories are segments of reality. We never see the actual beginning or the true end. Thats why prequels and sequels are literally always a possibility. Tyler has come to a point where even when depression grabs him by the throat and lifts him in the air he can stare it back in the face and say “not today” Anyone with depression knows it will never totally go away. Nico will never die. But you can get to a place described in oldies station where you know you can take it. Thats a beautiful place to arrive at after swimming the paladin strait.
Tyler’s story is still going and I am sure he has good days and bad days like the rest of us. The key is we get to see Clancy confidently looking his demons in the eys, all the glowing eyes, and the fear in his periphery is starting to shrink instead of grow and he is a little less concerned when there is nothing in the tank, when there is no obvious escape, because he doesn’t believe in talking just to breathe and he wont just say what you want to hear that nico is dead and there is nothing to fear.
He has gotten used to nico and relative pain and has given us all an example of how to write our fears to keep moving forward. Thanks to Tyler and Clancy I have begun to understand why God died. That is a complete enough story for me.
I wont be sad if I am wrong and there is more, because of course there is more there is tomorrow but it’s the end of today and thats enough for me.
I think he is ready to morph and we can all release him from the present we’re obsessin’ all these questions just take this moment to live in the future.
no bro like songs relating to his current situation in time, not the lore. Legend helped me a lot through my own grandpa's dementia, love that song. just definitely not a bishop thing
clancy is not and was not supposed to be trench 2.0. it is about finally kicked mental health issues. paladin straight is about how tyler finally breaks the cycle. the ending is what it is because mental health will always be an ongoing battle.
ohhh.. you want Tyler to win..? want the good ending..? well I hope THIS is the ending.. it's not game of thrones.. he already said in so many ways on his lyrics that it's a cycle.. and how to fight it.. yet you can't destroy it.. but well.. he's gonna have to create victorious ending because majority doesn't even have problems in their heads.. just imagines it for the sake of being a "fan".. got to touch the hearts of those who are buying the albums
So, Paladin Strait isn’t a good ending? What bothered you about that? Craving is a perfectly appropriate last song, simply because we all crave more music and lore.
sure man I mean I'm never gonna tell someone how to interpret art. I just feel like that wouldn't align with the whole message Tyler has been trying to send for like his whole career. Could it be the "darkness" winning? sure. I just personally do not think thats the case, and do not believe this is the end. Not gonna claim to know what Tyler intends but it would thoroughly shock me if the guy who screams "keep fighting" at the top of his lungs ends his story with a cold quiet loss of the battle and then moves on. It is true that thats how life works, but usually art is at least a LITTLE more romantic about it
\^\^\^THANK YOU. I don't believe it is the end, but it's not because of the fact that it would be a "bad ending" (meaning the hero doesn't win) that would upset me, it's the fact that it would be a really poor way of getting that message across.
The way that I see it, is that I think the story will wrap up less so in the album and more so in the album era if that makes sense? And if that's the case, then we are only at the beginning. Like when you think of an album cycle, the album comes out, tour happens, a couple of music video releases all spread out over 2-3 years. But for Clancy, we've already got the album, plus 14 music videos in the span of two months. And then of course the tour. So, especially with the way Tyler's been talking on twitter, I think it's highly likely the story will still be finished under the Clancy headline. Whether that's a video in the vein of "I am Clancy', a Clancy Part 2 album, a Clancy deluxe album, I don't know. But the era isn't over yet, so I'm waiting until the curtain actually closes before I make judgments. That said, I totally get your frustrations though. It's something I've been wrestling to understand too.
Apologies in advance lol. I didn’t think ⬇️ was going to get so long I agree; we’ve just entered the Clancy era/cycle (though we’ve been in Clancy era this whole time, since at least ST, if not all the way back to NPI - this is a hill I’d die on 🤣). Your comment is so well written and it’s connecting dots in my brain. At the end of PS, we see the battle begin. We don’t know how it concludes yet. We haven’t been given that vantage point yet. Unless we have and we’ve missed it up to this point. In Shy Away - “Don’t circle the track. Just break the cycle in half…” Essentially, change it up. Do something different. With the Clancy album, Tyler literally broke the album cycle in half. Annnd Tyler is Clancy/Trash/all Bishops/the vulture (another one of those hills lol). He’s telling us the narrative with both the lyrics and the lore/characters. I think there are a couple of possible scenarios that could happen and make the conclusion clear to all of us. 1. The existing storyline we have may be reformatted and presented to us from a different perspective/pov. This wouldn’t necessarily require any additional new music. It could be (a): spending the album cycle re-shooting specific Clancy mv’s from a different perspective. IMO, Blurryface, Trench, SAI (min) tell mostly the same story from various perspectives. Once you understand all the perspectives, you have the puzzle put together. “Lay the fibers side by side and you’ll begin to understand” There is also “The Story” playlist of mv’s on their yt channel. This is a key - I’m sure others have mentioned. We should be matching up songs & mv’s that tell the same story from different pov’s. Or it could be (b): Remastered versions of specific songs - 12 to be exact. Not new music, just updated. (“fool you once, it’s been 25 times”; “300 tracks in my Adidas track jacket”- math factoid: 1/25 of 300 is 12 👀) This is the option I’m leaning towards likely. Or it could be 2. 12 brand new songs to make that double album. Done over the course of this current cycle. I’ve got nothing to back this option up honestly. I really don’t believe this is what’s going to happen. I’m grateful that this is being spread out across some time. We get to savor it. I have so much respect for what these guys do. The layers, the plot. At the same time, the lyrics alone speak to my core. The rest is icing on the enormous cake 😂
I just get a good chuckle out of the simple fact that basically nothing pre-Clancy was freely given by Tyler/Josh to us \[the fans\] in regards to upcoming content, straight answers, etc. Instead, it was all of these cryptic puzzles and hidden messages, quite a bit of puzzles, theory crafting, what have you. Then, leading up to Clancy they drop the 'I am Clancy' YT video and are 'straightforward' with us \[the fans\] for once. I'm just enjoying it for what it is, but even going into Clancy, I had zero expectations there would be an end in the traditional sense, of any kind.
true! The "I am Clancy" video *really* shifted people's perspectives 😂
I wouldn't even call the I am clancy video straightforward because we still don't know if Tyler being Clancy is a true retcon, or if Tyler took Clancy's name. Sure, they might be saving those details for a future lore drop, but with a detail that large and one that fundamentally changes aspects of the lore they should really set the record straight.
no expectations probably are the best kind to have
I remember watching an interview during the trench era when talking about there being 2 more albums to complete the story Tyler said something along the lines of @i don’t think a lot of people will be too happy with the way it ends” so I think that helped set my expectations for a cliffhanger Tyler ending. Also one of TOP biggest messages is to keep fighting. Clancy is someone Tyler made up in his head to fight the bishops, so long as Tyler’s alive and fighting I’d imagine Clancy is too.
Imagine if this was Josh writing this 😂
I feel like you can relate every song except the craving to lore, you just have to think about it a little, every song has at least 2 meanings, and people can interpret them however it makes them feel, you just have to relate it to the lore and it’s really eye opening
This is how I feel. I think people expected every song to be like Nico and the niners. I think it ended just fine.. Music is supposed to be up to interpretation. I think it was smart to end the story on a cliffhanger. We know the banditos won and dema was saved, that's about all that needs to be said. The rest is for us to imagine
Exactly. This is what I don't understand. People are reaaaaalllly stretching and trying to make the odd Vessel song fit the lore, or insist Blurryface songs fit parts of the lore that almost certainly didn't exist back then, but they can't possibly accept there is a double meaning to the songs on Clancy? It makes no sense to me. There are clear double meanings on most songs.
I would say that you actually can connect The Craving to the lore too! The line "if I found my body in chains" always reminds of this 'prison' in DEMA from SAI era that Clancy was supposedly kept in. So I interpret it as Tyler kinda explaining the metaphor of this prison and connecting it to the real life, showing us what it symbolises. So like maybe this prison would be something like this overall negative headspace that Jenna is able to get him out of etc.
Oh thank you so true, I always give those mental health themed lyrics that kind of second meaning too, because dema is in his head, thank you for pointing this out to me
Sorry you’re annoyed about the “ending” but keep in mind Tyler and Josh are musicians first. The lore is cool and a great visualization about an ongoing battle but not the main thing they’re trying to sell us. They want to sell us the music they make. The advertisement of this being the end of the lore was heavily implied yes, and also Tyler did act coy during the album release livestream about this being the end, but at the end of the day, he can drag out the story as long as he wants while making music that coincides with this lore. I think Clancy is easier to digest when you don’t focus too heavily on the lore stuff and just enjoy it for what it is. An album made by two extremely talented people who want to make music for us to buy and enjoy together.
And by god is it an incredible album
I know the lore is fun, and I’ve enjoyed following the story, but I think a lot of the disappointment from some fans comes from an unnecessary hyper-fixation on the lore. Personally, I think the lore songs are significantly less interesting than the songs that directly speak to Tyler’s growth, struggles, maturity, etc., which is where Clancy thrives. The actual content, philosophy, and message of most of Clancy’s non lore songs are imo, so much more meaningful and important than the type of songs that is seems like many people wanted. It was the same with Trench. I loved the lore focused songs, they’re a lot of fun, but songs like Chlorine and Neon Gravestones are so much more interesting to me. Enjoy the lore, enjoy the puzzles, get excited for whatever the boys have in store next (I really don’t think the story is over). But try to look at Clancy as a really amazing and mature album that can stand alone on its own merits. The story is fun, but it isn’t everything.
While it may be an unnecessary hyper-fixation its definitely not intentional, I was born to be focused and insane over this 🙏 trying to recover though because it makes it less fun for me when my insane expectations are out of proportion to whats actually happening. I agree that the non-lore songs of Clancy are way more meaningful. Will never take them for granted
Neon Gravestones was a lore song
I get that neon gravestones have been incorporated into the lore, but the idea that neon gravestones is an actual “lore song” itself is just not true. It has a clear meaning and message completely separate from the lore.
All of the lore songs have clear meanings and messages separate from the lore. That's how symbolism works :)
The whole point of the lore is meaning and message.
You realize Neon Gravestones is extremely lore related right
Again, they incorporate neon gravestones into the lore, but the idea that it was written to be a lore song is just not accurate. Obviously everything can be linked into the lore given the entire story is a metaphor for Tyler’s experiences, but the song has a very clear and real world meaning completely separate from anything Dema or Trench related.
Bro all the DEMA stuff has real life meaning too. It is both a fleshed out story yet also allegory. Saying Neon Gravestones is not a lore song is silly
Neon gravestones is about vialism
What is with people not understanding Neon Gravestones is a lore song Bandito directly references "neon" Neon Gravestones is a perfect example of using a motif or symbol from the lore and not having it bound to the lore, it can say so much more, while also progressing the story of the album Thats what most of the songs on Clancy fail to do at all.
They incorporate neon gravestones into the lore, but it is absolutely not a “lore song”. It has a very clear and independent meaning and message.
What's a lore song that \*doesn't\* stand alone with a clear meaning? I can't think of one.
And it has a very clear lore meaning as well. A song can be two things at once. It clearly explains the motivation of vialism and Dema. While also having a pertinent real life message. Why can't it be both?
For me it's like, why would I *want* it to end? Them leaning into the next thing means in and of itself that there will be a next thing. I'm just enjoying what they give us and look forward to more in the future. The album is amazing in my opinion, and is right up there with Trench for me. Why be in such a hurry for the end that you stop enjoying the amazing journey?
I think it was sad because we *know* the ending is going to be off-the-charts epic, and so we were ready to experience that on June 21st. And then to have that not happen was disappointing. If they told us going in that Paladin Strait was definitively *not* going to be the last one (which I think they might have but people kept denying it?) I would have enjoyed it even more for what it **is**. But I'm glad it *does* mean we'll have at least one more high-budget music video because they are incredible and the more I have to rewatch the merrier 🤩
Expectations are the death of enjoyment for so many things.
That is definitely true. It can also be difficult to not get overly excited over things you are waiting for, though.
if it never ends it just feels like there are no "stakes" necessarily. like the reason stories are so compelling is because of the conclusion, good or bad, its part of it. I would never want to be a part of a never-ending dance party, no matter how fun it started off. I'd get tired man :( I'd wanna take a nap :(
Personally, I don’t have much beef towards the ending “per se”. Since depression and hard emotions usually don’t have and end, it makes sense that even the fight between Clancy and Nico keeps going. What I have disappointment towards to is the fact that this album was advertised as lore-savy, but it really was not. The album is still good, but I hoped for more. C’est la vie I guess hahah
*I can't help but feel vaguely like they sold us on some S Tier legendary final chapter, only to give us filler and a "ok we might see you guys later idkkkk :3 idk guys hehehehe! theres moreeeee..jk jk jk.. unless?"* This is how I felt after the PS music video. I had, admittedly, way too high expectations on that 1min something of silence in the middle of the audio track, guess I was waiting for some sort of revelation and got let down. Badly. I had to leave the room after the video, that's how mad I was about it. Now with a fresher, cooler head and having watched it multiple times, plus thinking of the album cycle side of things, I have come to the realization that they could hardly have thrown any "grand finale" epic showdown in the PS video and not disappoint many of us. Besides, it would be a bit strange(?) to go out and tour for a year+ after dropping the finale, I think. We have enough content to make do for until the end of the tour (including obviously the album, the videos, the shows...), then I guess we will have to at the very least hold our judgement until after the record, when the actual ending will be revealed. It is a bit disappointing, but it could have been worse. I'd rather wait, enjoy what I have while I have it, then be smacked in the face by whatever they conjured up as the end of the story, than have an instant gratification moment with a lame ending... Tl;dr: I get you, believe me I really do, but let's wait until the story is actually over to judge whether our disappointment is justified.
ESTAMOS A ZERO DIAS SEM ALGUÉM MANIFESTAR SUA INSATISFAÇÃO EM RELAÇÃO A CLANCY.
I enjoy the music as-is. I also enjoy being part of the story, with its twists and turns. The sense of unknown, the anticipation etc. i just chill and enjoy the moment cos one day, the lore will come to an end.
That’s where you and so many are mistaken, this was never a story, it was always a euphemism. It was always a way for Tyler to visualize his mental health struggles both past and present. As such it does not need a conclusive ending and should never have one because mental health issues never end, they just change. A lot of you hyped this up to Avengers Infinity War levels, it was never going to be that.
Tyler always said that even if this story was an "euphemism" like you said , it was before all a story and he wanted to make true characters and not just some metaphor. And he always said this album will be the end of the lore. So I understand op
Clearly either he lied, had a change of heart, or those words mean something else to him than they do to others.
well, then you can't say that everyone is "mistaken" if they are going off of what *he* said. But I agree, it would be unfitting if the ending was just "he kills the bishops and he wins forever!!! the end!!!"
I think he just wanted to make a surprise. And if they release a deluxe version of Clancy , or a part 2 he didn't lied technically
He said the story would be wrapped up with a bow... a conclusive ending, so to speak
Clearly that means something different to him
clearly ***now***
Stop pretending you know what Tyler’s inner thoughts are
Inner thoughts? In an interview he answered a plain YES to "this is the end of Clany lore?"
We're still well within the album cycle
He said more than once in different interviews the story would end with this record. Clancy. He used the word record. Not era. And here we are.
I mean, the band kinda hyped it up that way. Not like an “avengers” movie, but they did tell us in interviews that the story would have a nice ending, wrapped in a bow. If this is the end of the dema storyline, cool. It was fun. But I don’t think it’s over. I just think we have to wait longer Edit: I also get kind of annoyed when some people here claim to know exactly what they are planning, or that they understand better than others. None of us actually know what the hell theyre going to do
It’s important to state also that they said this story would end with this RECORD, the album. And well… Here we are.
Tyler said it was ending 🤦🏼♂️
Ending, not a conclusion.
Aren't those synonyms??
Not exactly. End means the story is done but doesn’t mean everything is wrapped up. Concludes means that’s all folks.
Veshame on you
Do you mean symbolism, or do you really mean euphemism? Euphemisms use nicer (or more vague) words to describe something unpleasant in a less unpleasant way. I suppose "I'm trying to break out of Dema" \*could\* be a euphemism for "I'm trying to keep my sanity from falling apart." I don't think the word is meant to be used quite that way though.
super good point! I understand the euphemisms of course but I still just kind of assumed the "lore" was the "whole point." part of why I posted this was so I could hear something like this and get a grip so I'm glad you put it in such a good way
No no. The lore is the context to the obscure lyrics. The point is the music, the songs themselves. Anything else is purely bonus.
I don’t get the Legend comparison at all
Legend was a non lore song about current struggles he was facing while writing Trench, and Oldies Station SOMEWHAT reminded me of a similar thing. I just said "non-lore songs relevent to Tyler's current state" in a dumb way my bad :(
Legend was about Tyler dealing with his grandpa suffering with a degenerative disease leading up to his passing.
i know
I suppose I don’t know the lore like a hardcore fan. I think there’s not enough catchy hook moments. Backslide, routines in the night, and next semester have them all. There’s very few OH FUCK THAT WAS COOL moments in the record for me. But the ones I got are heavy hitters imo.
I really agree with you. I was pretty disappointed with how Clancy was advertised as the end but it wasn’t. Even if this is just the start of the era, the boys still made it seem like the album was the end.
I feel exactly the same way
I fully agree with the sentiment you’re describing here. It’s a good album, but the marketing made it seem like it would be way more lore heavy than it is. Even the cover art being the two of them in front of a huge inferno, indicated to me that there would be some sort of “epic” conclusion. Honestly, no chances from SAI was more the type of thing I was expecting than anything we actually got from the album. It’s also bizarre how many of the videos take place in the snow, given the fiery / red marketing. I get that some of them were more fun DIY videos, but still, it’s really strange to me.
I agree with all the other comments here I think it's more about the era then the album and who doesn't want to get more excited because there's more I know I'm sad when things end it's just nature so to think wait this could be the end and it's not, it's fun, I'm excited and I think wether it's a deluxe album or something of the sort we will get the end soon and that's what counts it's okay, be excited for what's to come and enjoy what we do have while we wait
I definitely get where you're coming from, it's kinda felt like we keep getting strung along about when things are going to end. For me, I initially thought when I heard paladin strait, that would wrap things up. I went to the listening parties and when I heard the song, I thought that was the end, and that maybe it would be further elaborated on in the music video. At first I didn't know how to feel about the ending, but I began to really like it. It ends with Clancy finally facing his problems head on, and that's very symbolic in the metaphor for the story. That's gonna look different for everyone and I think leaving it on that note made me think about what facing my own problems would be like. It's a pretty strong message. But then during the live stream, he said " you tell me, is this the end?". So I thought it would be wrapped up in the music video, and a month later the music video ends basically the same way the song does. But apparently that's still not the end, and I'm left feeling kinda disappointed that it keeps being teased when I liked the ending that we got already. The fact that now, that isn't actually the ending, kinda diminishes how I felt about the end of the album originally, and that kinda sucks because it's starting to feel like these delays on the ending are hurting the themes and story they are trying to tell rather than making them better.
exactly dude! and Im very confused with the people responding being like "ermmm acshually the bad ending of paladin strait is the ending you should be happy with, why are you mad about a bad ending" when im mad with NO ending! I also had mixed feelings about PS being the end during the listening party, but still it grew on me. I would have been happy with that being the end. how many times does clancy have to get put in a headlock by nico before this story ends? all I can hope for is less than 6 times at this point
>My major disappointment is that Clancy has been ADVERTISED as the ending, ADVERTISED as the last little bow tying everything together before our next adventure. I was EXPECTING some fresh sounds like Overcompensate, some insane progression to the story. I was very excited to see where the Paladin Strait mv went, very excited to see where all of it went, because I had faith.. had hope that they would just let it end. >I can't help but feel vaguely like they sold us on some S Tier legendary final chapter, only to give us filler and a "ok we might see you guys later idkkkk :3 idk guys hehehehe! theres moreeeee..jk jk jk.. unless?" Yeah, this is the boat I'm in. Thankfully, I am a very new fan (to the lore) so I haven't been waiting for 9 years 😅 Plus Clancy has been like 80% of what I have been listening to since it came out, so I am definitely not upset.
My hope is we got almost an "east is up" before next 3 years...
I completely agree with everything you've written, you didn't sugar-coated it. I think it's hard for a lot of other fans to admit to what you've said
SAME. Tyler WAYYY overhyped it. :(
yeah. i like the album, but what was advertised as Trench 2.0 ended up being Scaled and Icy 2.0. That's not a bad thing, objectively. I like SAI a lot, but I really thought it's a one off, the songwriting on Clancy is very similar to SAI. Not what I was expecting, at all. What makes me the most dissapointed is Tyler's lack of "trying" ? It feels like he just wrote verse, chorus and didn't really bother with bridges or interesting song progressions. Look at Craving or Lavish... or almost any other song. Chord progressions changes are not very excited, lots of songs feel very samey throughout, where's the adventure? How can the second verse of navigating be ONE SENTENCE?
I agree with you. I feel like comments are trying to gaslight you into thinking you're being unreasonable when you expected to get what they quite literally advertised
people are acting like im taking the album for granted or being entitled and its starting to peeve me brother 😭 but I really did expect this, I mean I posted to reddit. I tried to be as clear as possible and people are still getting mad over misunderstandings and whatnot
People here made up their minds that every criticsm, even mild and said in a kind manner, is horrible betrayal. Same happens when someone dares to say SAI isn't amazing like some of their other albums
I kinda agree honestly. This was very heavily advertised as the final lore album, and it all ends on a cliffhanger. I'm still hanging on to more songs coming out, I just hope we don't have to wait until 2025 because that will be somewhat disappointing that we'd have to wait a year for something that was marketed and implied to end when the album came out. For me, though, it's not really about the lore per sé. Heck I wasn't even really interested in the lore until the I Am Clancy video and I delved deeper into the story and what everything means. It's a great metaphor for mental health, and I view each album (beginning with Blurryface) as each stage in battling your own demons and inner struggles. And Clancy was supposed to be the stage where you finally stand up and fight, hoping to win. With Clancy, I was extremely curious how Tyler was going to end this 9 year long story, and more specifically, I was curious about the symbolization of it all. With a band that, from the very beginning, was speaking about the struggles of going through difficult times, I was curious what was going to happen in Paladin Strait. Will Clancy defeat Nico? Will Dema get burned down? Will the Banditos win or lose? How will Tyler symbolize and describe the journey of finally defeating with your inner demons, and if you can really defeat them at all? I was so curious and excited to see how it was going to end... and I still am, because the album didn't conclude everything. In the end though, I still really like the album. I just don't think it should've been advertised as the conclusion to the lore if it wasn't. I really hoped we'd get something on 6/25, but seeing as we didn't, people are speculating on June 2025. I guess we'll see. But seeing as the "final battle is after the album", I don't think Clancy should've been described as the album to put a "nice bow on everything" if it ends on a major cliffhanger. But honestly, as much as I wrote about this, it's not bugging me TOO much. The album is great and that's pretty much enough for me.
i think its perfectly reasonable to be kind of irritated they said this album was the finale and then it actually wasn't. i say this as someone not really invested in the lore as i used to be, it's silly and misleading and i get why people are annoyed. especially now since it seems like clancy deluxe or whatever the finale will actually be isnt coming out until probably after tour. kind of a silly rugpull but it is what it is. the people talking about it was never a story or its just a concept or whatever is kind of like.... its obviously a story thats going to have an ending, the endings just not here yet. its ok to be annoyed by that
I don't know if it's reasonable, I actually don't know why you guys feels so entitled. It's crazy.
its not entitlement lmfao, im not invested in the lore like that. i just think of course some people will be confused when an ending was promised and not delivered 🤷♂️its not like yall need to defend them like that, of course they knew some people would be upset and they still think this is the correct way to tell the story. i think thats cool and look forward to it, im just not surprised some dont think thats cool
I don't think it's the end.
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In my case I'm tired of this lore. Just that.
Unpopular opinion but I personally love Paladin Strait as the end
Paladin Strait was the perfect ending stories are segments of reality. We never see the actual beginning or the true end. Thats why prequels and sequels are literally always a possibility. Tyler has come to a point where even when depression grabs him by the throat and lifts him in the air he can stare it back in the face and say “not today” Anyone with depression knows it will never totally go away. Nico will never die. But you can get to a place described in oldies station where you know you can take it. Thats a beautiful place to arrive at after swimming the paladin strait. Tyler’s story is still going and I am sure he has good days and bad days like the rest of us. The key is we get to see Clancy confidently looking his demons in the eys, all the glowing eyes, and the fear in his periphery is starting to shrink instead of grow and he is a little less concerned when there is nothing in the tank, when there is no obvious escape, because he doesn’t believe in talking just to breathe and he wont just say what you want to hear that nico is dead and there is nothing to fear. He has gotten used to nico and relative pain and has given us all an example of how to write our fears to keep moving forward. Thanks to Tyler and Clancy I have begun to understand why God died. That is a complete enough story for me. I wont be sad if I am wrong and there is more, because of course there is more there is tomorrow but it’s the end of today and thats enough for me. I think he is ready to morph and we can all release him from the present we’re obsessin’ all these questions just take this moment to live in the future.
They've made it SO clear that this is NOT the ending Why are we still having this convo 🙄
ik man im just annoyed bc they said it would be
"Songs like Legend" so amazing ones? Would that be so bad? I don't understand people🤦
no bro like songs relating to his current situation in time, not the lore. Legend helped me a lot through my own grandpa's dementia, love that song. just definitely not a bishop thing
clancy is not and was not supposed to be trench 2.0. it is about finally kicked mental health issues. paladin straight is about how tyler finally breaks the cycle. the ending is what it is because mental health will always be an ongoing battle.
ohhh.. you want Tyler to win..? want the good ending..? well I hope THIS is the ending.. it's not game of thrones.. he already said in so many ways on his lyrics that it's a cycle.. and how to fight it.. yet you can't destroy it.. but well.. he's gonna have to create victorious ending because majority doesn't even have problems in their heads.. just imagines it for the sake of being a "fan".. got to touch the hearts of those who are buying the albums
☝️🤓
So, Paladin Strait isn’t a good ending? What bothered you about that? Craving is a perfectly appropriate last song, simply because we all crave more music and lore.
I took the ending as he lost his fight. The hero wasn’t victorious as that’s the way it is in real life sometimes. The darkness won.
sure man I mean I'm never gonna tell someone how to interpret art. I just feel like that wouldn't align with the whole message Tyler has been trying to send for like his whole career. Could it be the "darkness" winning? sure. I just personally do not think thats the case, and do not believe this is the end. Not gonna claim to know what Tyler intends but it would thoroughly shock me if the guy who screams "keep fighting" at the top of his lungs ends his story with a cold quiet loss of the battle and then moves on. It is true that thats how life works, but usually art is at least a LITTLE more romantic about it
\^\^\^THANK YOU. I don't believe it is the end, but it's not because of the fact that it would be a "bad ending" (meaning the hero doesn't win) that would upset me, it's the fact that it would be a really poor way of getting that message across.
“Monsters are real, and ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win.”