For giggles... lets say you have experienced this in the past, After going through this long winded procedure, maybe losing £1,000s maybe not. Would your actions differ before or after a major loss? Or would you continue to have faith in the establisment?
How much can you lose from unpaid rent, a trashed house and court fees before you manage to evict a terrible tenant?
Personally I prefer sleeping at night.
You'll almost always make a profit when you sell regardless.
>How much can you lose from unpaid rent, a trashed house and court fees before you manage to evict a terrible tenant?
Do you mean in extreme cases or just the normal threat due to how the legislation and regulation has been implemented in recent times, unforgiving to LLs that do not adhere to necessary protocol implemented before they have granted a tenancy and are unfortunate to not have the gift of premonition.
So lets take into account your example above, I will consider myself a tenant of those very nasty Landlords...
As you say, I begin to not pay rent and begin to trash the house through neglect.
By recommendations of the law and what the likes of "Shelter" suggest as bypassed law; in the first instance the LL should serve me with a Section 8 under Ground 13. The latter being a discretionary ground I will put a £1,000 reward on anyone that can issue a relelvant case law whereby the court granted possession on this basis only in the last 3 years.
So Ground 13 is not going to work where I am trashing the property. Maybe with me not paying the rent, instead the LL uses Section 8; Ground 8,10 and 11... surely with the new world order of LL leaning judges this will allow the LL the ability to evict me? Well my LL cannot serve me this notice unless I am 2 months arrears... and say I do drop into 2 months arrears, I could easily pay a nominal amount to reduce my arrears to under 2 months arrears, and the court request will be dismissed.
Furthermore, what I can do is make spurious claims of the LL ignoring maintenance requests, devoid of any evidence and make a counter claim of £40,000+ due to malpractice and neglect of repairs... This claim obviously is not true, but could cost my LL £10,000s in time and legal fees to defend this improper accusation as the burden of proof is now on them - albeit the statements not true.
I wonder why my LL in this case didn't just serves me a section 21 notice. The latter cases have easily expoilted repercussions, whilst the S21 is simple.
I mean in extreme cases.
I have seen far more cases of landlords neglecting the property than tenants.
A friend is currently unable to shower in his own home because if he does, it leaks through to the flat below. It's been 5 months and the landlord has done nothing, despite multiple requests.
The last house I rented, I lived with chronic rising and penetrating damp (confirmed not to be condensation by a damp surveyor). The landlord painted over the damp before viewings, then did nothing for four years.
>I have seen far more cases of landlords neglecting the property than tenants.
I do not doubt you have anecdotally however, the statistics tell a different story. With 80% of private renters satisfied with their accommodation and 75% satisfied with how their LL deals with repairs.
Whilst the top 3 reasons why LL ended tenancies were:
1. Rent Arrears - 26%
2. Property not cared for - 22%
3. Tenant Anti Social Behaviour - 18%
[All official government stats. ](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/attitudes-and-satisfaction)
Obviously there are bad LLs and Ts out there, but they are both in the minority, however, with the law the way it is, the LLs have to be super careful and plan for huge costs.
>A friend is currently unable to shower in his own home because if he does, it leaks through to the flat below. It's been 5 months and the landlord has done nothing, despite multiple requests.
The last house I rented, I lived with chronic rising and penetrating damp (confirmed not to be condensation by a damp surveyor). The landlord painted over the damp before viewings, then did nothing for four years.
Indeed there are cases like this, but thats why we have the [Fitness for Human Habitation Act](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018/guide-for-tenants-homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018) to remedy issues like this for tenant protection easily, without having to go to court, where LLs are neglecting their responsibilities. Ts simply report the issue to their Local Council Housing Standards Team - they issue the LL with a formal Improvement Notice - legally forcing the LL to repair the issue within a set time and if not they will be penalised. A simple and effective way to force LLs to comply with their legal obligations.
On the other side though, if the tenant trashes the house, causes anti social behaviour terrorising the street or refuses to pay rent... the LLs do not have the same facility to report this to the Local Council Housing Standards who could serve the Ts with a similar Improvement Notice to the above... they have the costs and months of waiting for court, a complex legal system to navigate and no guarantee they will ever recover their losses.
The HFHH regulations are a significant improvement. Unfortunately tenants are often too scared to enforce their rights - reality is that the protection from revenge eviction takes a while to kick in, and is really quite short lived.
The friend in question is vulnerable, autistic, and hates confrontation, so he feels unable to go down that route, though I've talked him through his options. He's terrified the landlord is going to take money from his deposit for the bad plumbing, though I've explained that this isn't allowed.
So the reality is that the landlord can do nothing, leave a vulnerable man without a shower, and get away with it. He is, in essence, exploiting him.
In my case, I was also too scared to go down the legal route, for fear of a revenge eviction. Being a dog owner, I knew that my options for finding a new home with two months notice were going to be limited. So I kept scrubbing away at the mould until the landlord evicted me, painted over the damp and turned it into an Airbnb.
It *shouldn't need* the tenant to follow a legal pathway to get it fixed, it should just be reported and sorted in a reasonable period of time. Anything less is unacceptable.
>On the other side though, if the tenant trashes the house, causes anti social behaviour terrorising the street or refuses to pay rent... the LLs do not have the same facility to report this to the Local Council Housing Standards who could serve the Ts with a similar Improvement Notice to the above... they have the costs and months of waiting for court, a complex legal system to navigate and no guarantee they will ever recover their losses.
What actual consequences would you propose that a tenant improvement notice would have? It would never move any faster than the courts already do. You already have the ultimate power - eviction - even if it does take a while, and a bad reference. There's never going to be any support for some sort of blacklist from the PRS - either they'd end up on the streets (and no one wants big homelessness encampments) or they'd end up in coveted social housing, essentially rewarding bad behaviour.
We should never forget that there is a huge power imbalance between tenants and landlords. A landlord can seize a tenants home through the courts. A tenant can never get the landlord's property taken off them, no matter how much of a slumlord they are.
>The HFHH regulations are a significant improvement. Unfortunately tenants are often too scared to enforce their rights - reality is that the protection from revenge eviction takes a while to kick in, and is really quite short lived.
The improvement notice is the protection from eviction. The procedure to remedy this issue is in place through the FFHH act... I can't do anything about folk being too scared, unfortunately people have to put their brave boots on sometimes.
>It shouldn't need the tenant to follow a legal pathway to get it fixed, it should just be reported and sorted in a reasonable period of time. Anything less is unacceptable.
It shouldn't need the LL to follow an even more complex and prolonged legal pathway to evict tenants that are not paying the rent, trashing the house or terrorising the neighbours. It should just be rent paid, peaceful enjoyment. taking care of a house in a tenant like manner. Anything less is unacceptable.
Both LLs and Ts should indeed simply comply with the terms of the tenancy and laws of the land - that simple. But in the real world some people do not do what they should, hell if everyone did as they should we wouldn't need a police force would we? Thats the point there are bad LLs and Ts about, just like there are good and bad people in all sectors we need these procedures like the FFHH to prevent these bad operators from not complying with law. Issue is the procedures in place for T remedies are zero cost, simple and reletively speedy - the complete opposite to LL remedy.
> What actual consequences would you propose that a tenant improvement notice would have? It would never move any faster than the courts already do.
It would obviously move faster than the courts as you don't require the courts to implement. Enforcement powers are provided to the local councils. Consequences of a tenant improvement notice? I have not given it a lot of thought but my initial thoughts are:
* For rent arrears - LA given powers to issue an attachment to earnings to clear the rent arrears.
* For Anti Social Behaviour - [give the LA the powers to issue IPNAs without needing to go to court. ](https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_conditions/nuisance_and_asb/injunctions_to_prevent_nuisance_or_annoyance)
* For Tenant Property Damage - issue [Abatement notices](https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_conditions/local_authority_duties_to_deal_with_poor_conditions/local_authority_statutory_nuisance_duties#title-6) similar to the LL improvement notice.
Obviously these formal notices above would provide the T with a reasonable amount of time to remedy the issue before these penalties are enforced. Similar procedure to the FFHH process for the LL potentially charged a small fee to cover costs. No courts required apart from appeals, nothing thats putting Ts on the streets, just streamlined guaranteed ways to resolve breaches; which will make LLs feel more secure that they have a quick simple reliable mechanism to resolve breaches- likely reducing the amount of evictions due to the LLs now having more than one viable option.
>You already have the ultimate power - eviction - even if it does take a while, and a bad reference.
"ultimate" but also the only viable option available to LLs right now to resolve these issues, what other options do LLs have where the Ts doing any of the above breaches? Its the LLs only option and is too heavy handed. No LL wants to have to evict Ts, its not easy, they just want Ts to comply with the tenancy terms. Introducing less severe alternative remedies like the above will give the LLs more than the one option they have now and without the need to evict Ts.
>We should never forget that there is a huge power imbalance between tenants and landlords. A landlord can seize a tenants home through the courts. A tenant can never get the landlord's property taken off them, no matter how much of a slumlord they are.
So you wouldn't consider a T not paying rent living in a house, delaying the court process for months maybe years, whilst the LL is still liable to pay for repairs is not Ts seizing the LLs house for this period?
The notion that its easy to regain possession from Ts is completely false. Rights to the accelerated possession can be completely removed from LLs by simply forgetting to provide a How to Rent Guide at the start of the Tenancy, amongst other things. Nor should you think its every LLs intention to evict their Ts on a whim, its a very drastic remedy but remember its their only viable remedy they have.
Ts on the other hand may not have as drastic remedies like eviction but they have a multitude of other protections and rights:
1. FFHH
2. Improvement Notices
3. Rent Repayment Orders
4. Protection from Retalitory Eviction
5. Counter Claims
6. Legal Aid
7. Deregulation Act
8. Statutory Compensation for Deposit Faults
9. Redress Schemes
10. Breathing Space
11. Tenant Fees Ban
12. Deposit Caps
13. Licensing Schemes
And a shed load more. You offer LLs less heavy handed reliable remedy options maybe only 3-4 more, similar to some of the Ts above and they will use those and be much less reliant on evictions.
My mortgage goes from £270 to £640 this month. I've put rent up £100. I now break even and the only profit I gain is from relief from expenses and that's if there are no big maintenance bills.
My tennant is great and I could get another £100-150 pcm if I wanted but I would much rather keep them and not have a headache.
Assuming you are still making profit, suck up some of the increase yourself! Imagine kicking someone you consider a friend out because you dont want to cover a portion of the rate raises yourself!
Yep.. c.1.7% up to c.4.8%
Not run through a ltd company and both moved to high rate tax since originally buying/mortgaging. So we've made a few mistakes to learn from but finding all the work-arounds we can!
We have been charging £200 less than market rate as the tennant came recommended, is generally a good person and looks after the place. So the increase in rent just allows us to adjust up to a realistic rate whilst covering the losses - whilst we hope rates come down when we re-mo in 5yrs time. We genuinely don't want to be AH Landlords as the property is an investment for our retirement or kids. Sorry I think that answers your question :)
I’m exactly the same I could take the piss and charge an extra 50-75 each month as that’s what the top rent is in the area or not piss pff the tenants keep the rent £75 below top end and they might stay for another 5 years. I can live without the extra and they are happy not to pay it.
This is my kind of philosophy.
I always aim at around £50 less than it's probably worth when marketing (only in the £800 region anyway).
That way, I get a bit of a pick of tenants, and they feel like they've got a good deal.
Youve said it’s on the expensive side already so that suggests you’re at or even looking at going over market rate.
The rent isn’t set by mortgage rates and this is o e of those rough with the smooth situations. I’m in the same boat.
To answer your more specific question, I have one set of tenants who pay every month and I literally heard from them to renew, and the next time was 12 months later to renew, and I had another who I went to court to get out costing about £450 (fair enough rent was up to date) and then reduced the price to sell by £5k because of the state of the property.
pretty easy decision really.
A good tenant is worth lots over a bad one. The real calculation is based on the chances of getting that type of tenant again. For 50-75 I would keep a great tenant.
I think a good tenant is worth their weight in gold, it's poxy with interest rates going up but property is a long term investment and a tenant who is maintaining the property and paying a fair rent is worth keeping, so unless you are actively losing money then try to keep them and ride this storm out
exactly this! if they took a loan to make money = business, and as in any business you can lose sometimes. If the tenant loses his job, they won't allow them to stay for free...
Do you ask your local petrol station the equivalent question when wholesale petrol prices increase and they raise their prices?
Or do you accept that when providers' costs rise, they need to pass those costs on to customers in order to stay in business?
Stopping at a rival petrol station otw from work is absolutely the same as emptying your house of all your belongings and dropshipping your family who knows where you're right.
To put this another way: you’ve got a decent person who is paying off the majority of your mortgage on a property which will make you a massive profit one day.
What’s the downside in keeping them for £50 a month?
Sleep easy at night. As long as you are not losing money and can afford to absorb the difference. You don't sound like that is an issue.
A tenant you consider good enough to be a friend is not only rare, but you have you now blurred the lines between landlord and tenant and that can be super tricky if you push them too hard.
Someone who is a pleasure to deal with now may feel they have the right to to push back on little things that were not an issue before. Fancy a call at 3.00 am to change a light bulb?
Take their max budget offer and be grateful. Lower it a little bit if you really value them as a tenant.
We rented a property for over 20 years and made a choice from the start to always charge at slightly below market rate. We never had a problem tenant.
Our last tenant was one that we also had a casual, personal relationship with and did not want to lose him as he was slightly OCD in a good way. That flat was always spotless.
His flatmate left suddenly and he could not afford to pay their half of the rent, so we agreed he would continue to pay his share only and that he would paint the flat (his suggestion), we would supply the materials and he could choose his new flatmate (we had final approval). He stayed for another 3 years.
You've remortgaged because of your inability to manage your finances. This is your problem, not your tenants. Why should he/they wear the cost of your excessive spend?
£75 over a year is £900.
Do you think this tenant will save you £900 in cleaning, painting etc if they leave in 12 months?
If you think so, or you can swallow £900 a year in losses, let them stay. It would also be a really nice thing to do.
This. Such a good point and often overlooked. At the worst case scenario where rent and mortgage are the same number: vacancy is a loss. You have to pay fu**ing council tax too, for services and roads you aren't using.
Please know that I'm not demonising all lanords here. I get that it's complicated.
I understand that when mortgages go up, rents are likely to go up. But, as someone who has struggled with the cost of renting in the past and seeing how fast it is getting worse, I can't help but not feel sorry for landlords in this position.
If I could comfortably live a good lifestyle while I throw a few hundred pounds each month towards a property I let I would. If I couldn't, I think I would see it as time to sell as I can't handle the minor financial burden that has come with the investment.
There is a balance to be made of course. But unlike renters, that little extra payment each month is not being thrown down the drain.
Your interest payments are not really relevant…. What’s the market rent and how much does it differ from what you receive…. a Big difference maybe time to move on, a small difference then better the bird in the hand
What I did (with a lovely tenant I want to keep but having an expensive remortgage) is agree with him annual rent increases for the next five years so they'll average out as me not losing out by too much over fixed term of mortgage
Fair enough - that eradicates any agency fees then.
I’d personally be looking at the following: if they leave - time consumed carrying out viewings and advertising - will this eat into your work life and if so, what is your time worth doing this? Cleaning fees, potential new tenants wanting items removed/items added. TDS fee (small cost I know) any inventory costs and then that typical first month when new tenants move in and have issues / not sure how things work and report them as broken. If that outweighs the extra £600 a year you could achieve, then that would be your answer
A good tenant is worth way more than you think.
The second I realize a tenant is a good one, I generally stop raising their rent to keep them as long as humanly possible and within reason.
I’d rather have the guaranteed income with zero headaches than an extra $150 and it being a crap shoot.
I've been in a similar position to you and we took the hit. They look after the place, never bother me, always pay on time and intend on staying for a long time. Minor jobs he sorts himself or gets someone in and let's me know, it's just worth the peace of mind and having someone in whilst the mortgage trickles down is fine for me. I could chuck them out and probably charge £200 more through an agency but it's just not worth it for me. Sure the money would be nice but rent prices are getting extortionate and just because I can doesn't mean I should.
Some refreshing comments on here. Also saddens me because I know my landlord would put the rent up by at least 300 if he was in this situation (I mean that is what he’s done)
If you're a landlord with a single property, don't consider it as a loss. You're investing your money into your capital asset - a loss would be where you never see the money again. You will realise the gain.
Personally I would split the hit down the middle?
5 mins in your house with a bad tenant and that's bad news, in fact 1 month of arrears? That's probably your annual increase gone before you even get in to legal fees.
If he is prepared to cover over 50% of the increase of the inttetest hen he is being more than reasonable so you could split the difference of the increase i
That’s a silly argument. If rents were set by interest rates then you should have no problem with them going up when interest rates go up. You are in no position to accuse OP of being greedy. I think I would be right in saying that you have never refused a pay rise. Most people want the maximum income they can get.
Stick with the current tenant if they are that good & U R happy with them. U could push them a tiny bit harder for a bit more $$ BUT not so much to piss them off or create ill-feelings.
You dont want to start paying out for repairs, upgrades, inspections & similar type stuff if they (or even worse, a new tenant) wishes to become "picky" about their living conditions.
Living in peace is worth a hell of a lot of $$
Just get a new tenant, do proper research on checking them out with references, credit searches etc...and serve current tenant a section 21 notice, it is a landlords market so you have the upper hand. You are not a charity.
A good tenant is worth the price of the entire rent for the year, plus the cost of refurbishing your property!!
It’s never worth it for a few hundred a month rent.
I have had a tenant for the last 4.5 yrs - no issues and rent paid on time.
Letting agent said to raise the rent to £X pm as it is “market value” but I was happy to raise it by X-£150 as they have been good and want to keep them on and happy.
After you take into consideration the tax - the net value is only £1000pa which I am happy to forego - better the devil you know!
"Do you" take the hit... up to you.
Whether you can... its quite simple... ignore every person here citing "interest rates" or "cost increases", or doing either and blaming it on the latter two...
At the end of the day. what the market rate is what is the fair price. Anything less than this is a discount payable by the tenant. The market rent is set by supply and demand only, forget about "inflation" its bollocks.
Whether the amount of achieveable rent is £50-75pcm less than costs is not going to allow you to set the rent. If someone pays this amount than tough shit you are losing £50-75pcm; similarily, lets say the T pays £50-75pcm above costs, sure many will complain one way not the other...
How much is a good tenant worth? As much as you are willing to gamble.
They're one of those sad lurkers who just look for threads to take jabs at landlords.
Ignore them, if they don't have anything better to do with their time,leave them to it.
Plenty of jealous saddos around who’ve made poor life choices and just can’t stand the fact that some people have done better for themselves and made better life choices than they have.
Telling yourself that anyone who criticises you is jealous? *Totally* not an ego problem. Nope.
Doesn't really seem like I'm the one making bad choices considering this post is literally about a financial decision that OP made but can't actually afford. So no, not particularly jealous of OP's ~~'better life choices'~~ stupidity, honestly.
Because they wouldn’t be worrying about £50 if they had a job?
They’d just take up an extra shift if that money was essential…but it’s not.
It’s spending money that they’re salty that they’re not gonna have after deciding, themselves, to remortgage the property beyond their means. And, since they don’t have an actual job to take up an extra shift at, their immediate thought process was whether or not they could get away with raising the tenant’s rent to refill their wallet.
You know how people call landlords parasitic? Yeah, this is why.
I have one BTL, and a flat for myself. Both bought without help from anyone. Worked my nuts off to get them both. Whats your excuse?
If that’s your understanding of mortgages, may explain why you can’t manage your finances and are therefore stuck renting
Because if you weren’t, you wouldn’t be lurking in landlord sub raging at anyone and anything. I’m now a gobshite because you don’t have an explanation… dosser
Two personal attacks, on a subreddit you openly disagree with… literally a sweaty nerd sitting at home looking to rage at someone to make up for your inability to take responsibility for your own poor financial choices. You keep telling yourself that🤣
Totally not raging. Not rattled at all. 100% a fantasist basement dweller, probably studied sports science at uni and now gutted you can’t afford your rent
Since you’re asking this question I’m tempted to conclude that you’ve never had a tenant stop paying and refuse to leave.
Nope, never experienced that
For giggles... lets say you have experienced this in the past, After going through this long winded procedure, maybe losing £1,000s maybe not. Would your actions differ before or after a major loss? Or would you continue to have faith in the establisment?
That's a great point to reflect on. Use this OP. Take the £75 hit, your tenant will be even more grateful.
How much can you lose from unpaid rent, a trashed house and court fees before you manage to evict a terrible tenant? Personally I prefer sleeping at night. You'll almost always make a profit when you sell regardless.
Thanks for your input
>How much can you lose from unpaid rent, a trashed house and court fees before you manage to evict a terrible tenant? Do you mean in extreme cases or just the normal threat due to how the legislation and regulation has been implemented in recent times, unforgiving to LLs that do not adhere to necessary protocol implemented before they have granted a tenancy and are unfortunate to not have the gift of premonition. So lets take into account your example above, I will consider myself a tenant of those very nasty Landlords... As you say, I begin to not pay rent and begin to trash the house through neglect. By recommendations of the law and what the likes of "Shelter" suggest as bypassed law; in the first instance the LL should serve me with a Section 8 under Ground 13. The latter being a discretionary ground I will put a £1,000 reward on anyone that can issue a relelvant case law whereby the court granted possession on this basis only in the last 3 years. So Ground 13 is not going to work where I am trashing the property. Maybe with me not paying the rent, instead the LL uses Section 8; Ground 8,10 and 11... surely with the new world order of LL leaning judges this will allow the LL the ability to evict me? Well my LL cannot serve me this notice unless I am 2 months arrears... and say I do drop into 2 months arrears, I could easily pay a nominal amount to reduce my arrears to under 2 months arrears, and the court request will be dismissed. Furthermore, what I can do is make spurious claims of the LL ignoring maintenance requests, devoid of any evidence and make a counter claim of £40,000+ due to malpractice and neglect of repairs... This claim obviously is not true, but could cost my LL £10,000s in time and legal fees to defend this improper accusation as the burden of proof is now on them - albeit the statements not true. I wonder why my LL in this case didn't just serves me a section 21 notice. The latter cases have easily expoilted repercussions, whilst the S21 is simple.
I mean in extreme cases. I have seen far more cases of landlords neglecting the property than tenants. A friend is currently unable to shower in his own home because if he does, it leaks through to the flat below. It's been 5 months and the landlord has done nothing, despite multiple requests. The last house I rented, I lived with chronic rising and penetrating damp (confirmed not to be condensation by a damp surveyor). The landlord painted over the damp before viewings, then did nothing for four years.
>I have seen far more cases of landlords neglecting the property than tenants. I do not doubt you have anecdotally however, the statistics tell a different story. With 80% of private renters satisfied with their accommodation and 75% satisfied with how their LL deals with repairs. Whilst the top 3 reasons why LL ended tenancies were: 1. Rent Arrears - 26% 2. Property not cared for - 22% 3. Tenant Anti Social Behaviour - 18% [All official government stats. ](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/attitudes-and-satisfaction) Obviously there are bad LLs and Ts out there, but they are both in the minority, however, with the law the way it is, the LLs have to be super careful and plan for huge costs. >A friend is currently unable to shower in his own home because if he does, it leaks through to the flat below. It's been 5 months and the landlord has done nothing, despite multiple requests. The last house I rented, I lived with chronic rising and penetrating damp (confirmed not to be condensation by a damp surveyor). The landlord painted over the damp before viewings, then did nothing for four years. Indeed there are cases like this, but thats why we have the [Fitness for Human Habitation Act](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018/guide-for-tenants-homes-fitness-for-human-habitation-act-2018) to remedy issues like this for tenant protection easily, without having to go to court, where LLs are neglecting their responsibilities. Ts simply report the issue to their Local Council Housing Standards Team - they issue the LL with a formal Improvement Notice - legally forcing the LL to repair the issue within a set time and if not they will be penalised. A simple and effective way to force LLs to comply with their legal obligations. On the other side though, if the tenant trashes the house, causes anti social behaviour terrorising the street or refuses to pay rent... the LLs do not have the same facility to report this to the Local Council Housing Standards who could serve the Ts with a similar Improvement Notice to the above... they have the costs and months of waiting for court, a complex legal system to navigate and no guarantee they will ever recover their losses.
The HFHH regulations are a significant improvement. Unfortunately tenants are often too scared to enforce their rights - reality is that the protection from revenge eviction takes a while to kick in, and is really quite short lived. The friend in question is vulnerable, autistic, and hates confrontation, so he feels unable to go down that route, though I've talked him through his options. He's terrified the landlord is going to take money from his deposit for the bad plumbing, though I've explained that this isn't allowed. So the reality is that the landlord can do nothing, leave a vulnerable man without a shower, and get away with it. He is, in essence, exploiting him. In my case, I was also too scared to go down the legal route, for fear of a revenge eviction. Being a dog owner, I knew that my options for finding a new home with two months notice were going to be limited. So I kept scrubbing away at the mould until the landlord evicted me, painted over the damp and turned it into an Airbnb. It *shouldn't need* the tenant to follow a legal pathway to get it fixed, it should just be reported and sorted in a reasonable period of time. Anything less is unacceptable. >On the other side though, if the tenant trashes the house, causes anti social behaviour terrorising the street or refuses to pay rent... the LLs do not have the same facility to report this to the Local Council Housing Standards who could serve the Ts with a similar Improvement Notice to the above... they have the costs and months of waiting for court, a complex legal system to navigate and no guarantee they will ever recover their losses. What actual consequences would you propose that a tenant improvement notice would have? It would never move any faster than the courts already do. You already have the ultimate power - eviction - even if it does take a while, and a bad reference. There's never going to be any support for some sort of blacklist from the PRS - either they'd end up on the streets (and no one wants big homelessness encampments) or they'd end up in coveted social housing, essentially rewarding bad behaviour. We should never forget that there is a huge power imbalance between tenants and landlords. A landlord can seize a tenants home through the courts. A tenant can never get the landlord's property taken off them, no matter how much of a slumlord they are.
>The HFHH regulations are a significant improvement. Unfortunately tenants are often too scared to enforce their rights - reality is that the protection from revenge eviction takes a while to kick in, and is really quite short lived. The improvement notice is the protection from eviction. The procedure to remedy this issue is in place through the FFHH act... I can't do anything about folk being too scared, unfortunately people have to put their brave boots on sometimes. >It shouldn't need the tenant to follow a legal pathway to get it fixed, it should just be reported and sorted in a reasonable period of time. Anything less is unacceptable. It shouldn't need the LL to follow an even more complex and prolonged legal pathway to evict tenants that are not paying the rent, trashing the house or terrorising the neighbours. It should just be rent paid, peaceful enjoyment. taking care of a house in a tenant like manner. Anything less is unacceptable. Both LLs and Ts should indeed simply comply with the terms of the tenancy and laws of the land - that simple. But in the real world some people do not do what they should, hell if everyone did as they should we wouldn't need a police force would we? Thats the point there are bad LLs and Ts about, just like there are good and bad people in all sectors we need these procedures like the FFHH to prevent these bad operators from not complying with law. Issue is the procedures in place for T remedies are zero cost, simple and reletively speedy - the complete opposite to LL remedy. > What actual consequences would you propose that a tenant improvement notice would have? It would never move any faster than the courts already do. It would obviously move faster than the courts as you don't require the courts to implement. Enforcement powers are provided to the local councils. Consequences of a tenant improvement notice? I have not given it a lot of thought but my initial thoughts are: * For rent arrears - LA given powers to issue an attachment to earnings to clear the rent arrears. * For Anti Social Behaviour - [give the LA the powers to issue IPNAs without needing to go to court. ](https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_conditions/nuisance_and_asb/injunctions_to_prevent_nuisance_or_annoyance) * For Tenant Property Damage - issue [Abatement notices](https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_conditions/local_authority_duties_to_deal_with_poor_conditions/local_authority_statutory_nuisance_duties#title-6) similar to the LL improvement notice. Obviously these formal notices above would provide the T with a reasonable amount of time to remedy the issue before these penalties are enforced. Similar procedure to the FFHH process for the LL potentially charged a small fee to cover costs. No courts required apart from appeals, nothing thats putting Ts on the streets, just streamlined guaranteed ways to resolve breaches; which will make LLs feel more secure that they have a quick simple reliable mechanism to resolve breaches- likely reducing the amount of evictions due to the LLs now having more than one viable option. >You already have the ultimate power - eviction - even if it does take a while, and a bad reference. "ultimate" but also the only viable option available to LLs right now to resolve these issues, what other options do LLs have where the Ts doing any of the above breaches? Its the LLs only option and is too heavy handed. No LL wants to have to evict Ts, its not easy, they just want Ts to comply with the tenancy terms. Introducing less severe alternative remedies like the above will give the LLs more than the one option they have now and without the need to evict Ts. >We should never forget that there is a huge power imbalance between tenants and landlords. A landlord can seize a tenants home through the courts. A tenant can never get the landlord's property taken off them, no matter how much of a slumlord they are. So you wouldn't consider a T not paying rent living in a house, delaying the court process for months maybe years, whilst the LL is still liable to pay for repairs is not Ts seizing the LLs house for this period? The notion that its easy to regain possession from Ts is completely false. Rights to the accelerated possession can be completely removed from LLs by simply forgetting to provide a How to Rent Guide at the start of the Tenancy, amongst other things. Nor should you think its every LLs intention to evict their Ts on a whim, its a very drastic remedy but remember its their only viable remedy they have. Ts on the other hand may not have as drastic remedies like eviction but they have a multitude of other protections and rights: 1. FFHH 2. Improvement Notices 3. Rent Repayment Orders 4. Protection from Retalitory Eviction 5. Counter Claims 6. Legal Aid 7. Deregulation Act 8. Statutory Compensation for Deposit Faults 9. Redress Schemes 10. Breathing Space 11. Tenant Fees Ban 12. Deposit Caps 13. Licensing Schemes And a shed load more. You offer LLs less heavy handed reliable remedy options maybe only 3-4 more, similar to some of the Ts above and they will use those and be much less reliant on evictions.
I would absolutely take the hit and keep the good tenant in the property.
Thanks
The difference between a good tenant and just an “ok” one can be thousands. Play it safe, it’s better the devil you know
Thanks
My mortgage goes from £270 to £640 this month. I've put rent up £100. I now break even and the only profit I gain is from relief from expenses and that's if there are no big maintenance bills. My tennant is great and I could get another £100-150 pcm if I wanted but I would much rather keep them and not have a headache. Assuming you are still making profit, suck up some of the increase yourself! Imagine kicking someone you consider a friend out because you dont want to cover a portion of the rate raises yourself!
That's a big hike in your mortgage though...ouch!
Yep.. c.1.7% up to c.4.8% Not run through a ltd company and both moved to high rate tax since originally buying/mortgaging. So we've made a few mistakes to learn from but finding all the work-arounds we can!
Does that change what the tenancy is worth?
We have been charging £200 less than market rate as the tennant came recommended, is generally a good person and looks after the place. So the increase in rent just allows us to adjust up to a realistic rate whilst covering the losses - whilst we hope rates come down when we re-mo in 5yrs time. We genuinely don't want to be AH Landlords as the property is an investment for our retirement or kids. Sorry I think that answers your question :)
With capital gains tax being what it is you might be better selling up and investing elsewhere.
I'd take the £250 hit every month if it meant I knew the house would be looked after, and the tenant would pay on time!
Especially if they take care of it. Clean, quiet tenants are a rarity.
I’m exactly the same I could take the piss and charge an extra 50-75 each month as that’s what the top rent is in the area or not piss pff the tenants keep the rent £75 below top end and they might stay for another 5 years. I can live without the extra and they are happy not to pay it.
This is my kind of philosophy. I always aim at around £50 less than it's probably worth when marketing (only in the £800 region anyway). That way, I get a bit of a pick of tenants, and they feel like they've got a good deal.
Youve said it’s on the expensive side already so that suggests you’re at or even looking at going over market rate. The rent isn’t set by mortgage rates and this is o e of those rough with the smooth situations. I’m in the same boat. To answer your more specific question, I have one set of tenants who pay every month and I literally heard from them to renew, and the next time was 12 months later to renew, and I had another who I went to court to get out costing about £450 (fair enough rent was up to date) and then reduced the price to sell by £5k because of the state of the property. pretty easy decision really.
A good tenant is worth lots over a bad one. The real calculation is based on the chances of getting that type of tenant again. For 50-75 I would keep a great tenant.
I think a good tenant is worth their weight in gold, it's poxy with interest rates going up but property is a long term investment and a tenant who is maintaining the property and paying a fair rent is worth keeping, so unless you are actively losing money then try to keep them and ride this storm out
Why is you remortgaging the property your tenant's problem?
exactly this! if they took a loan to make money = business, and as in any business you can lose sometimes. If the tenant loses his job, they won't allow them to stay for free...
They're free to move to somewhere cheaper rather than accept a price increase right?
The same reason rising business costs are any customers business.
Do you ask your local petrol station the equivalent question when wholesale petrol prices increase and they raise their prices? Or do you accept that when providers' costs rise, they need to pass those costs on to customers in order to stay in business?
Stopping at a rival petrol station otw from work is absolutely the same as emptying your house of all your belongings and dropshipping your family who knows where you're right.
Take the hit!
To put this another way: you’ve got a decent person who is paying off the majority of your mortgage on a property which will make you a massive profit one day. What’s the downside in keeping them for £50 a month?
Sleep easy at night. As long as you are not losing money and can afford to absorb the difference. You don't sound like that is an issue. A tenant you consider good enough to be a friend is not only rare, but you have you now blurred the lines between landlord and tenant and that can be super tricky if you push them too hard. Someone who is a pleasure to deal with now may feel they have the right to to push back on little things that were not an issue before. Fancy a call at 3.00 am to change a light bulb? Take their max budget offer and be grateful. Lower it a little bit if you really value them as a tenant. We rented a property for over 20 years and made a choice from the start to always charge at slightly below market rate. We never had a problem tenant. Our last tenant was one that we also had a casual, personal relationship with and did not want to lose him as he was slightly OCD in a good way. That flat was always spotless. His flatmate left suddenly and he could not afford to pay their half of the rent, so we agreed he would continue to pay his share only and that he would paint the flat (his suggestion), we would supply the materials and he could choose his new flatmate (we had final approval). He stayed for another 3 years.
You've remortgaged because of your inability to manage your finances. This is your problem, not your tenants. Why should he/they wear the cost of your excessive spend?
If that’s what you honestly think, you know shockingly little about how mortgages work.
Yeh, we know internet rates have gone up. So what. Manage your spend better if you think the tenant is reliable.
Not necessarily. I’m remortgaging because my interest rate has increased so I’m looking for another provider on a cheaper rate.
£75 over a year is £900. Do you think this tenant will save you £900 in cleaning, painting etc if they leave in 12 months? If you think so, or you can swallow £900 a year in losses, let them stay. It would also be a really nice thing to do.
You readvertise, tenants leave. You may end up unlucky then two weeks without a tenant and landlord would have already lost £900.
This. Such a good point and often overlooked. At the worst case scenario where rent and mortgage are the same number: vacancy is a loss. You have to pay fu**ing council tax too, for services and roads you aren't using.
Seriously, £75 is nothing to keep a good tenant. Bad tenants can cost you an absolute fortune.
Thanks for the input!
Please know that I'm not demonising all lanords here. I get that it's complicated. I understand that when mortgages go up, rents are likely to go up. But, as someone who has struggled with the cost of renting in the past and seeing how fast it is getting worse, I can't help but not feel sorry for landlords in this position. If I could comfortably live a good lifestyle while I throw a few hundred pounds each month towards a property I let I would. If I couldn't, I think I would see it as time to sell as I can't handle the minor financial burden that has come with the investment. There is a balance to be made of course. But unlike renters, that little extra payment each month is not being thrown down the drain.
Your interest payments are not really relevant…. What’s the market rent and how much does it differ from what you receive…. a Big difference maybe time to move on, a small difference then better the bird in the hand
What I did (with a lovely tenant I want to keep but having an expensive remortgage) is agree with him annual rent increases for the next five years so they'll average out as me not losing out by too much over fixed term of mortgage
Are you advertising, carrying out the viewings and doing the contracts and other due diligence yourself or are you using an agent?
I do everything myself via OpenRent
Fair enough - that eradicates any agency fees then. I’d personally be looking at the following: if they leave - time consumed carrying out viewings and advertising - will this eat into your work life and if so, what is your time worth doing this? Cleaning fees, potential new tenants wanting items removed/items added. TDS fee (small cost I know) any inventory costs and then that typical first month when new tenants move in and have issues / not sure how things work and report them as broken. If that outweighs the extra £600 a year you could achieve, then that would be your answer
The whole process of replacing them could easily cost you the difference in many years rent payments.
And then again it might not. With the shortage of rental properties voids are short in most areas.
A good tenant is worth way more than you think. The second I realize a tenant is a good one, I generally stop raising their rent to keep them as long as humanly possible and within reason. I’d rather have the guaranteed income with zero headaches than an extra $150 and it being a crap shoot.
I've been in a similar position to you and we took the hit. They look after the place, never bother me, always pay on time and intend on staying for a long time. Minor jobs he sorts himself or gets someone in and let's me know, it's just worth the peace of mind and having someone in whilst the mortgage trickles down is fine for me. I could chuck them out and probably charge £200 more through an agency but it's just not worth it for me. Sure the money would be nice but rent prices are getting extortionate and just because I can doesn't mean I should.
Some refreshing comments on here. Also saddens me because I know my landlord would put the rent up by at least 300 if he was in this situation (I mean that is what he’s done)
If you're a landlord with a single property, don't consider it as a loss. You're investing your money into your capital asset - a loss would be where you never see the money again. You will realise the gain.
Thanks for your input 👍
Have you seen the capital gains rate? There is little gain when a property is sold.
Personally I would split the hit down the middle? 5 mins in your house with a bad tenant and that's bad news, in fact 1 month of arrears? That's probably your annual increase gone before you even get in to legal fees.
If he is prepared to cover over 50% of the increase of the inttetest hen he is being more than reasonable so you could split the difference of the increase i
When interest rates were low did you cut the rent? You're a greedy person messing with a good person's home for £50..
That’s a silly argument. If rents were set by interest rates then you should have no problem with them going up when interest rates go up. You are in no position to accuse OP of being greedy. I think I would be right in saying that you have never refused a pay rise. Most people want the maximum income they can get.
I’ve only owned the property for 2 years, this is the first time I’ve remortgaged
Are you remortgaging for a rate fix or a drawdown?
A rate fix
What are the costs of finding a new tenant? Plus what are the potential costs of the new tenant being worse than your current 'excellent' tenant?
Stick with the current tenant if they are that good & U R happy with them. U could push them a tiny bit harder for a bit more $$ BUT not so much to piss them off or create ill-feelings. You dont want to start paying out for repairs, upgrades, inspections & similar type stuff if they (or even worse, a new tenant) wishes to become "picky" about their living conditions. Living in peace is worth a hell of a lot of $$
Just get a new tenant, do proper research on checking them out with references, credit searches etc...and serve current tenant a section 21 notice, it is a landlords market so you have the upper hand. You are not a charity.
What a prick
A good tenant is worth the price of the entire rent for the year, plus the cost of refurbishing your property!! It’s never worth it for a few hundred a month rent. I have had a tenant for the last 4.5 yrs - no issues and rent paid on time. Letting agent said to raise the rent to £X pm as it is “market value” but I was happy to raise it by X-£150 as they have been good and want to keep them on and happy. After you take into consideration the tax - the net value is only £1000pa which I am happy to forego - better the devil you know!
Will you lower the rent in 2 years time when interest rates drop?
Rent is not set by interest rates. It is set by market forces.
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Dear Piglet From a tenant's perspective you are probably the best landlord and a good human. Sorry you ended up with a shit tenant one time.
"Do you" take the hit... up to you. Whether you can... its quite simple... ignore every person here citing "interest rates" or "cost increases", or doing either and blaming it on the latter two... At the end of the day. what the market rate is what is the fair price. Anything less than this is a discount payable by the tenant. The market rent is set by supply and demand only, forget about "inflation" its bollocks. Whether the amount of achieveable rent is £50-75pcm less than costs is not going to allow you to set the rent. If someone pays this amount than tough shit you are losing £50-75pcm; similarily, lets say the T pays £50-75pcm above costs, sure many will complain one way not the other... How much is a good tenant worth? As much as you are willing to gamble.
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I agree with your sentiment. Throwing out a decent person for £75 a month...
Exactly. Loads of downvotes don't bother me, it must be mostly landlords on this thread
Typical response from the uneducated... 😂
Think you’re on the wrong sub, but thanks for your input anyway
I suppose the easiest solution here is that you just get a job? Think that might solve your financial issues pretty quickly 👍
What makes you think I don’t work?
They're one of those sad lurkers who just look for threads to take jabs at landlords. Ignore them, if they don't have anything better to do with their time,leave them to it.
Plenty of jealous saddos around who’ve made poor life choices and just can’t stand the fact that some people have done better for themselves and made better life choices than they have.
Telling yourself that anyone who criticises you is jealous? *Totally* not an ego problem. Nope. Doesn't really seem like I'm the one making bad choices considering this post is literally about a financial decision that OP made but can't actually afford. So no, not particularly jealous of OP's ~~'better life choices'~~ stupidity, honestly.
Often people who criticise are jealous. It’s nothing to do with ego.
Not when it comes to criticising shitty landlords 😂
>leaving me £50 a month down Wouldn't be the situation if you had a job, pal.
Who’s to say the landlord doesn’t already have a job, pal?
Because they wouldn’t be worrying about £50 if they had a job? They’d just take up an extra shift if that money was essential…but it’s not. It’s spending money that they’re salty that they’re not gonna have after deciding, themselves, to remortgage the property beyond their means. And, since they don’t have an actual job to take up an extra shift at, their immediate thought process was whether or not they could get away with raising the tenant’s rent to refill their wallet. You know how people call landlords parasitic? Yeah, this is why.
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You sound like a complete dick.
A pithy, eloquent and insightful comment.
Why are you even in a LL sub? Could keep complaining or get to work like the rest of the world, it’s difficult, not impossible…
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Neither can the tenant, that's why they're renting. So where are you going with this 🤔😂
I have one BTL, and a flat for myself. Both bought without help from anyone. Worked my nuts off to get them both. Whats your excuse? If that’s your understanding of mortgages, may explain why you can’t manage your finances and are therefore stuck renting
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Because if you weren’t, you wouldn’t be lurking in landlord sub raging at anyone and anything. I’m now a gobshite because you don’t have an explanation… dosser
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Two personal attacks, on a subreddit you openly disagree with… literally a sweaty nerd sitting at home looking to rage at someone to make up for your inability to take responsibility for your own poor financial choices. You keep telling yourself that🤣
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Totally not raging. Not rattled at all. 100% a fantasist basement dweller, probably studied sports science at uni and now gutted you can’t afford your rent