Snapshot of _British meat and fish exports to EU slump by half since Brexit_ :
An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-food-trade-eu-labour-b2362943.html)
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So where the hell is it all going? Two miserable pieces of cod or haddock has gone over 4 quid now in Tesco, surely it should be dirt cheap if nobody else is buying it?
The British fishing fleet does not fish for cod and haddock, the Norwegian fleet fishes for those and then exports them to the UK.
The UK fishes mackerel, herring & blue whiting.
https://www.seafish.org/insight-and-research/fishing-data-and-insight/
So the most popular fish Brits love to eat is all imported.
Probably for the same reasons we have an “energy crisis” whilst energy companies have record profits and when there’s a “cost of living” crisis whilst all those other companies have banger profits at our expense. Like how our national GDP goes up whilst all social programs, the nhs and schools/police/firefighters etc are all getting cuts.
We are actively getting fucked
> But the government argued that comparing December 2020 export figures, the month before Brexit, with March 2023 – the last available figures – was “misleading”.
> A government spokesperson said: “These figures are misleading as export figures are always very high in December due to Christmas demand compared with other months
I mean... they're right, arbitrarily picking two months is an example of lying using cherry-picked statistics
expand the period to be an entire year and that's a much more reliable basis for comparison
Exactly, this is like saying Brexit killed all festiveness in the UK. Immediately before the UK left the EU, British streets were lit up with jolly christmas displays, and Brits were happily wrapping presents for their loved ones. Now, there is not a single christmas tree to be found. Sad.
If it's just a quirk of the observation period why is the government concerned with reducing red tape or bunging the fishermen £100 million?
Surely the oven-ready has ensured that it's all going fine us it is.
Good. They voted for Brexit, they can reap the ‘rewards’ of Brexit. They were warned consistently for 7 years to prepare for it. They chose to shout, mock & abuse anybody who dared point out the obvious to them. So do I care about these idiots destroying their own businesses? No I don’t. I care about the people who’s lives have been destroyed as they were dragged out against their will by these idiots.
The thing is, they’ll never admit it.
It’s the same reason some victims of fraud testify for the person who scammed them. It’s an ego thing.
Some people just cannot admit they’ve been had, but more than that, with brexit and certain other beliefs, people tie that up with their own sense of self, it becomes part of their personality.
To admit it was wrong, Is to admit a part of themselves is and most people can’t do that.
So they’ll just pivot, first of all it was the EU, then it was the remoaners, then it was the people who didn’t want a hard enough brexit, then it was project fear, then it was Russia and Putin, then it was the cost of living crisis but look it’s still bad in Germany, now it’s the tofu eating wokerati.
Which by the way, as a political target the so called “wokerati” is genius, because it’s something you can never defeat, the EU is real, you can leave it, wars in Europe come to an end, economies rise and fall, but this so called anti woke stuff, it goes on forever, and you can literally use it to fit anything you don’t like.
The people protecting their soft little egos literally never need to think again.
From the way I saw Brexit happen, it was completely frustrated from the initial result of the 2016 vote, deals being changed every 2 weeks and anti-leave politicians and figures blocking steps along the way.
I wouldn't know what an actual, smooth Brexit would have looked like, but the current consequences of it are because as a nation, we couldn't agree what Brexit should be, so we ended up with was some shitty brexit enshrined in Tory rites, what nobody actually voted for.
Oh 100% what people voted for wasn’t a plan it was an ideal. It was some vision of a past, post war Britain that never really existed where you wake up in your village cottage, rolling hills around you, have a crumpet and read the paper about the shockingly low price of jam, you wave to the vicar as he cycles by and not a brown or foreign face in sight, your door is left unlocked as crime is non existent.
It was never really like that but people are addicted to nostalgia and the feeling that things were just better when they were younger, none of us are immune, I’m 30 and even now people my age talk about the early 2000s like they were the peak of cultural achievement.
The difference here is that, this was real, this was a vote that affected peoples lives.
The other problem is that social media has turned politics into a sport, people have their team and they’ll do anything they can to back them.
I see this on both sides as well, there’s loads of I hate the Tory scum twitter account’s constantly tweeting about how evil they are, for me they’re just as dangerous, because while in some case they may be right this insistence of “my side good, your side bad” means that when your side does something terrible, people have often put themselves into a position where they can’t call it out because to do so would make them hypocrites.
I don’t think the scars of brexit will heal for a very long time
West Coast Scottish fishermen (the ones who catch the good stuff there's actually a demand for on the Continent) almost certainly did not vote for Brexit.
Thank you, someone actually saying it. Constantly hearing SNP saying “Scotland didn’t vote for Brexit”. The majority didn’t. But 38% did. It’s a sizeable minority.
Th eonly poll that was done of fishermen specifically only asked captains and owners of boats larger than 10m... aka not including most of the west coast fisherman who are small scale shellfish fishermen. That is where the whole narrative that fishermen voted for Brexit came from and it essentially just covered the large trawlers (and didn't ask the regular crew).
I'm sick of this argument. There's approximately 4 million people eligible to vote in Scotland, where approx. 1.5 million voted to remain, and 1 million voted to leave.
Sure remain wins the popular vote on paper, but if a further 1.5 million Scots didn't bother to vote at all, then the minority of a remain vote is apparent taking the whole population into account. In actual terms, out of the whole Scottish electorate, 40% voted to leave, 20% leave and a further 40% didn't even bother
Why Good?, I did not vote leave. And those that did were lied to.
It's fucked all round. Everyone is suffering for the lies and cash grab of the few at the top.
Yes, they were lied to. But the remain campaign repeatedly warned them about what was very likely to happen and that the leave campaign was bullshit. They wrote it all off as ProJEct FeAr.
The nation needs humbling clearly the amount it was between 1945 and the 70s was clearly not enough. There’s a significant portion still obsessed with empire and all that past shite.
It sucks but we’ve tried the carrot with these morons for ages now they have to face the stick.
Willful ignorance isn't ignorance. They weren't illiterate substinence farmers under a dictatorship, they had the tools and networks to find out the truth for themselves.
My food bill has gone up 25% since we left and thanks to inflation my mortgage is going through the roof. The IMF said our situation would have been much less serious had we not left the EU.
You do know less means that everyone is suffering inflation but because other nations didn’t impose economic sanctions on themselves? The inflation is **less** bad than other nations that also suffered Covid.
Also, what is not being said us how fucked it is in Europe.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-23/euro-zone-activity-almost-stalls-as-rebound-from-recession-fades#xj4y7vzkg
https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/euro-zone-business-growth-stalls-june-flash-pmi-2023-06-23/
I can see us coming out of this better than Europe
That is not what us being pushed in thus sub. The narrative is 'my mortgage payments sre more because if brexit, my food costs more because of brexit. ' etc etc. Its covid.
Thank God for COVID. What would we be able to blame if COVID didn't happen?
COVID might be the best thing that happened to Brexiters. Perfect diversion that affected more people than brexit could.
Except we’re worse off than literally all our neighbours. We were hit harder and are recovering slower. The pandemic and the war is an excuse that’s becoming flimsier by the day as everyone else shows sign of recovery and growth.
But it is covid. New Zealand have inflation, Australia, usa, Canada. Did they have brexit? Its covid. Its stopping production and paying people to stay at home and not produce . Its bailing out companies. Currencies got devalued so much by this. Its basic economics.
I don't read the DM . And its basic economics. And everywhere in Europe has inflation, New Zealand and Australia have soaring food prices. Nowt to do with Brexit, poppit.
Yes except the UK’s inflation is a lot worse. So it’s not “basic economics,” unless you want to live with your head in the sand and act like the distinction doesn’t matter. The UK, unlike those other countries, decided to sever their ties with their closest trading partners and then act like prices would remain the same. The UK is now the poor man of Europe, falling living standards and nobody that will trade with them on as good of terms as the EU did. Blame it on global inflation though, we’ll see how the UK is in 10-15 years compared to Germany or France.
I voted remain, but it's clear that printing over £700 billion over a 3 year period (and the US printing much more) had more effect on inflation than imports being a bit more expensive. As well as the supply side issues that came post-covid.
For reference, I believe from 2008 to 2020 quantitative easing resulted in an injection of around £250 billion into the money supply.
Brexit would have increased inflation a little bit, but you wouldn't expect it to increase corporate greed and profits to the level that we see at the minute.
I am not a Conservative supporter. They need to be gone. Likely a Labour government next time. Which won't be much different, I don't think.
If everywhere is suffering financial strife and everywhere is is suffering inflation, it is not brexit. Its not hard to see.
My partner and her family have been forced to apply for settled status despite living in the uk since the 90s and owning a business.
Have you ever been stopped by border control and told you're illegal while with your child and partner?
Made feel like a criminal for coming home to the country you built a life in, pay taxes in, lived in because even though your parents are English, you where born abroad because they took advantage of EU membership that your child won't benefit from?
That's just the tip of the iceberg. I'm watching peace in Ireland, a war i grew up with, being put at risk in the name of lies and feelings.
Do you mean like everyone else who had yo do thiscaction that was made very simple to do? And going through border control is not being made to feel like being a criminal. Also, lives not actually destroyed. They had to do some documentation.
No one is hoing yo war in Ireland. The young people are educated differently and they are generally have a better standard of living.
They are loons. I am aware of that. The group most likely to push a united Ireland whilst pushing so hard against it.
You've imagined it worse for others. Imagined.
Oh, so now its shrunk lives, not destroyed? This is my main problem with the remain camp. The absolute hyperbole amd when you question it, ask for examples, its not no where near as bad. You sound like the nedia when you do that. ITS THE WORST THING EVER! And its not.
Not the Brexiteers anyway - they're generally receiving proportionately more of the Cost Of Living supports, without shouldering a similar proportion of increased taxation.
A wonderful example of Moral Hazard for future textbooks.
Then again, the next goverment are very unlikely to be able to sustain this level of borrowing or spending, so the consequences are probably just temporarily delayed.
All those people born with the ability to live and work anywhere within the the EU who are now trapped on an island full of idiots who will not be content until they burn everything to the ground?
If the shoe fits bud. I don’t know if you’ve tried to move to another country, but without a work visa sponsored by a company in that country you are not going to be able to move there. Before Brexit we could up and move to Germany, France, Spain, Italy, whatever, to pursue our passions or chosen lifestyles just as easily as we can move from Manchester to London. Now only those of us fortunate enough to have talents that are sufficiently in demand that a foreign company is willing to sponsor us will have the opportunity to escape. You better believe that has left those of us who are able to look beyond our own navels pretty pissed off!
There’s a big difference between having that freedom taken away and never having it in the first place. I’m sure you recognize that and are just here to stir shit, but it needs saying anyway.
Ahhh good, the exact sort of toxic division this country needs.
Accept your responsibility and your own liability and stop being so childish and salty about it.
Your own responsibility? Remain voters are in no way responsible for this mess.
I did not ask for a vote. I do not organise national political campaigns.
We have every right to be bitter. The country is down the shitter because half the population are morons and won’t listen to reason.
Being gracious about it lays the groundwork for the same thing to happen again, we need to be vocal and clear about just how terrible a decision brexit was, and how leave voters were duped into believing in absolute fantasy.
Do you actually believe the words you type? Are you playing dumb for the cameras or are you actually *that ignorant?*
Remain voters are **as responsible** for our current situation as leave voters. **Nobody** can claim to have no responsibility for it, and here I shall demonstrate why:
You may have voted on topics which made the EU offering worse. You may have voted for politicians who supported specific bills which made our engagement with the EU worse. You may have voted on any number of topics, directly or indirectly, which made other people want to vote for Brexit.
This is, of course, in much the same way that no Brexiteer had the opportunity to specify which type of Brexit they wanted. Even if you've voted Labour your entire life, and against anything which might support Brexit, you've likely voted for things which made it more likely. Further, people who voted for Brexit were also more likely to vote against Blair for instance, who pretty much instigated modern division within the UK (one of the notable causes of Brexit).
You can pretend that Brexit is a single-topic issue all you like, but you are quite frankly wrong in doing so. We are a democracy, we work at scale across the board, and whatever your vote was, it always sent a message. That message may be strong, or it may be weak. It may be for a shift left, or right. It may be that you always favoured the EU, in spite of some of their bad legislation...
The simple fact is that putting your fingers in your ears and crying "it's all your fault" is toxic division. "They voted for Brexit, they can reap the 'rewards' of Brexit" is pretty much exactly that. It is ignorance in its purest form to take no responsibility at all. We are all responsible, we have all made decisions which led to this state - big or small, they all have an impact.
The utterly nonsensical sentiment that "I didn't vote for it, so it's your own fault" is pointless and demonstrably false. You were part of the cause, now stop trying to make it worse with division. Do something productive - however small. Start a conversation about an approach to resolve it, do some political campaigning to join an FTA with the EU. Do literally anything, but don't just sit there pointing fingers and flinging faeces, because you're only ever going to make our problems worse.
Edit: You can take logic and reason to Reddit, but you can't make Reddit logical or reasonable.
>By that logic, no one is to blame for anything.
That's kinda the point of a democracy, we the voting public do not take responsibility for such decisions, because we elect other people to do so for us.
To take a few examples... Do you not think that a soft Brexit involving our membership of the EFTA may have been successful? Or that May's compromise deal would've been successful? Do you not think that had Cameron been a bit more generous in his tenure, it would've been harder to make the argument for economic freedom? Or that had Blair not invaded Afghanistan, that the public purse would've been better off to the point that any fiscal argument would've been subdued?
Politics isn't about individual decisions, nor a single butterfly. Politics is about all 70mn people (or even half of them) in the UK jumping up and down at the same time, causing a seismic shift in the political landscape - something which despite your poorly chosen metaphors, is entirely possible.
My point here is not that I voted for it, but it's your fault, it's that **we** voted for it, and it's **our** fault. Collectively, as a country, we voted to join the EU (by a smaller proportion than that which voted to leave, I might add). We also voted to leave. We voted governments into power, who failed to deliver on numerous counts, and we continued to do so. We are the people, and we are a geographically determined group. If we turn on each other, we find no answers worth looking for, but we do find ourselves turning on each other, and wasting energy looking to offend and belittle, rather than to repair and recover.
The alternative theory, of course, is that half the country just woke up one day and switched sides. They saw some article on the Daily Mail about Polish people coming over here and stealing our jobs, and decided enough was enough... Perhaps I'm naïve for believing that the country ranked 2nd in the world for education would be influenced by observed problems, as opposed to invented gossip.
Fortunately, I prefer to provide logic and reason than emphasis... This guy, though, even went to the effort of pressing caps lock before typing his argument.
Have you considered at all trying to come up with some sort of coherent argument against it? Or are you legitimately happy that your entire contribution to this discussion is little more than a passing insult?
No because your argument is ridiculous. You may as well say someone from a century ago is also responsible.
The only ones responsible for it are the ones who voted for it. End of.
I don't think I've been on this sub for a long time and I can't believe the division is still as big as it is over Brexit.
Instead of us all blaming each other, we could blame an establishment that has restricted our choice and pushed us towards a situation of staggering inequality and an incredibly unhealthy economy over the past 50 years. These two defining features of our country at the minute would be true whether we were in the EU or whether we were out of it, and it doesn't have to be the case either in the EU or out of it. Like our elections, we were given a choice that either way we would not be knocked off our ideological course.
P.s. the hatred from many remainers on this post is appalling, taking glee from people's suffering because of one vote they made. If you still are this unsympathetic 3 years on, then despite whatever perception you have of yourself, you are not the adult in the room. I'm not attacking all remainers there, I voted remain myself, only the ones that are keeping the rhetoric dialed to 11 and show little compassion for their compatriots.
'Salty', thanks for reminding us of how Brexiters threw those insults at us 'remoaners' before they opened their brexit gift and found it to be a house brick.
Turns out they wanted a house brick anyway and if they didn't it wasn't their fault.
Stop cribbing and moaning from the sidelines, and talking down talk the economy, there is *going to be* a [soft landing](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/taoiseach-apologises-for-suicide-remarks-in-speech-1.948363).
/s
Said before one of the biggest property and economic crashes ever, followed by a political earthquake, but still looks bearable in comparison to what the UK is sliding into currently while the political class pretend everything is fine.
It is fake news, and I say that as a remain voter with no axe to gring.
https://www.farmersguide.co.uk/uk-red-meat-exports-soar-to-unprecedented-heights/
Comparing two different months a couple of years apart is pretty shoddy... If you look at the industry data for exports for example, it doesn't seem to fit (And there have been large downturns too), throw in that they've gone by weight rather than by value (at points where presumably there is a lot of seasonal variation) and I'm a little sceptical. Well that and it's the Indy.
Don't see the issue. Surely we are making up for slumping EU sales with these super trade deals Boris and his cohort said we were going to see. You know with the Yanks, and heaven forbid the one we signed with the Aussies. You know how Brexit was going to open the door of possibilities....
> "Facts"
It's a statistic, and a deliberately misleading one.
I voted remain, but this is just bait and you're taking it.
They have taken fish exports for December 2020 and compared it to Mark 2023.
You can't compare two different months like that and pretend its a year on year statistic. Even then it doesn't necessarily imply a causal link.
Weak shit by Labour.
Very peculiar that they picked those specific dates for the statistics. The last month before regulations come into play vs a recent month at a time when exports are likely to be high...
I wonder if anyone will ever present appropriate statistics which demonstrate whether exports have fallen anywhere near as significantly...
I feel compelled to clarify: Knowing that Brexit was happening at the end of December, it seems apparent to me that in December people would be pushing to export more produce more quickly to mitigate the risk of issues - so exports were likely increased significantly. Further, I don't know why it's the case but it seems detailed in the article itself that exports are generally higher in December regardless. Overall, this article says nothing of any value to anyone.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if they had fallen very significantly.
But the fact they didn't use Dec 2022 makes me suspicious they haven't and are having to manipulate statistics to drive a narrative.
Then again, to be honest I actually just suspect its incredibly incompetent Labour 'analysts', there was some really dire 'stats' like that in the Corbyn era.
Significantly, sure. I mean, 20% would be a fairly healthy estimate. "Slump by half" though is almost certainly false, especially given the lack of context and their self-proclaimed questionable data.
Such is life, though. The media is always full of crap to spoonfeed the masses.
This isn’t really the media driving it too hard - it’s a Labour pack that they’re repeating but also pointing out the criticism from the tories. I’d guess the months are packed not because the outcome is any different but because it’s more significant.
That doesn't necessarily seem a bad thing. I mean, this would be perfectly compatible with even the most optimistic Brexiter predictions about how brexit would open brand new markets and allow more of our trade to go elsewhere. The place our exports go to doesn't really matter so much as how much we're exporting, and the value we're getting from it - you'd expect this no matter how good or bad brexit really was. If exports to the EU drop by 0.1 Billion, but increase by 1.1 Billion worldwide (as was the case in April), that's a positive thing, even though it'd show as a drop in the proportion of EU trade.
Which kind of makes me a bit suspicious of this - why use this irrelevant figure, and why only mention meat and fish? Picking just one sector to talk about kind of raises suspicions of cherry picking, especially when it seems like a pretty small proportion of our exports.
Looking at the stats, [exports in general](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-trade-in-numbers/uk-trade-in-numbers-web-version) actually seem to be doing surprisingly well. 2022 seems to have been relatively positive, with total exports up 22.8%. Even more surprisingly, even exports to the EU were up (there was a drop / stagnation around 2018, but we're now back above pre-brexit levels). The Non-EU increase is only slightly higher, so I think most of the change brexit caused was ~2016-2019, and we've normalised a bit now.
Looking at beef specifically, total exports seem [fine](https://www.statista.com/statistics/298117/eu-and-non-eu-export-volume-of-beef-veal-united-kingdom-uk/) as of 2022 at least (second highest volume on record in fact). And TBH, EU exports actually seem surprisingly *high* - pre brexit levels were~ 8000 tons (~5000 pre 2013), whereas 2022 was 29,207 tons. Which, yeah, is down from the peak of 2010 (44,980) (though the total exports are up), but we actually still seem to be exporting significantly more to the EU than we used to pre-brexit. 2022 looks like it was the third highest year for EU beef exports **ever** - it's only down because it's being compared to the first, even if the proportion *was* the relevant measure.
As such, this seems a **deeply** misleading statistic. They've picked one particular industry, taken a baseline of a record-setting year for EU exports, and compared only that proportion, even though **total** exports are around the same.
I think brexit was a terrible idea and absolutely bad for the country. But frankly, I think these statistics reflect worse on those who compiled them than they do about the government.
It's frustrating seeing how quickly people swallow lies if the lies support their prejudices. Like you, I voted in, but I am totally pragmatic - and so far nothing bad seems to have happened ( well, nothing which isn't also happening in the EU ) so I don't see any point in rejoining.
Ha, one of the most common counterarguments to rejoining the EU is that we'd lose our fishing privileges, which is ridiculous because fishing is inconsequential to the British economy but now even the fishers are suffering from Brexit. Any more counterarguments to rejoining brexiteers?
So they are selling it somewhere else, maybe to the U.K., maybe to the other 165 countries on planet now it’s more or less a level playing field regards paperwork for exporting, and importing.
No where in that article does it say they are selling less, probably because that doesn’t make a story.
I’m assuming it because they haven’t said otherwise. No where does it say fishermen and farmers are down half on their exports.
But hey ho, you believe what you want.
I think if you want to close your eyes and ignore the stuff in front of you and replace it with stuff that supports your world view that's your right. But you might find people asking you to provide sources for your entirely made up reality.
Yes. The EU accounted for less than 50% of our exports, so with half of that gone it leaves just a 25% shortage to find new markets for. And that’s what’s happened.
Again if you can show me farmers and fishermen are 50% down on sales I’ll happily be corrected.
Eh, exports to an important trade partner are down substantially, I think assuming that total exports are therefore fine and unchanged is... Slightly wishful thinking.
You think ASSUMING!
That’s the problem, you are making statements when the only logical assumption would be to that IF trade was down as a whole then that would be reported not just that it’s trade with one trading partner.
The assumption here is made based on the fact trade as a whole is a more important factor than trade just with one trading partner. As such it is that which would be reported.
First off I’m not the original person you responded to.
What I find objectionable is that you have made an assumption (self confessed) then accused others of not ‘opening their eyes’ when you’ve clearly, and as stated, made up the missing information to support your world view. It’s nuts !
Edit - on a side note you need to be far more sceptical of the media. They lead you down this path with the line underneath the heading, but fleshed the facts out in the article once the notion that ‘total sales were down’ was planted in your mind.
It’s exactly this, they are suggesting total exports are down 50%, that impossible as the EU didn’t even make up 50% of exports. But people read the headline without giving it a grain of thought.
But it ok as it’s leavers that were lied to and conned. Remainers are far to intelligent to be fooled by a headline…….
> So they are selling it somewhere else
They arent, they cant be, they're landing less fish. 20% less between '21 and '22. Fish processing plants have also been closing in the UK, like the two in Grimsby. ~600 people out of a job.
As I understand, several years ago UK bought a lot of cod from Russia. Maybe that practice was changed now, which explains why UK sells less fish for now to EU: it is for internal use.
>These figures are misleading as export figures are always very high in December due to Christmas demand compared with other months
LOL, it's over 2.5 years...
No they compared exports in December to exports in March. Demand varies by season and December is 1) right before Christmas and 2) was right before new regulations came into play. It's not a fair comparison at all and this is shoddy statistics at best and deliberate massaging of the data to fit a narrative at worst. Compare December 2020 to December 2022 or compare aggregate for the year 2020 to aggregate for the year 2022.
I'm not seeing this as a bad thing.
Fewer fish sold means fewer fish taken from the sea which hopefully means that in some, small way, fish stocks might recover.
Shouldn't we be trying to reduce the amount of miles that food is being sent to reduce our carbon footprint? If it becomes more economical to eat locally sourced food, great?
I mean, would this really be considered that big of a deal?
Most of our meat and fish is imported to Britain, regardless of the intended message here, surely it would be better to mention changes to EU imports than UK exports.
Who the fuck is cockblocking post Brexit UK? Will Boris'...Nigel's..Truss'(?) Brexit Dreamz™ be kicked down tbe road AGAIN cuz EU! I mean, who else?
Don't you smugass EU drifters blame the UK one minute for the brain drain to the EU.
That's right Brexit Unbelievables™ and EU the orgasm of free enterprise swelling in the UK testicles has yet to explode!
REQUEST: If you have an Amazon Echo ask it where the EU is headquartered. My US based Echo says...London every time.
Brexit and is forced to relocate to London Uand or the European Union is headquarters guess what they say
I don't know how the Indy came up with their figures, but looking at the data they are looking a singular point, where trade to the EU spiked, vs some other month where it wasn't spiking.
I can only imagine that is the case as the farmers themselves seem to think trade is doing well.
https://www.farmersguide.co.uk/uk-red-meat-exports-soar-to-unprecedented-heights/
Snapshot of _British meat and fish exports to EU slump by half since Brexit_ : An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-food-trade-eu-labour-b2362943.html) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So where the hell is it all going? Two miserable pieces of cod or haddock has gone over 4 quid now in Tesco, surely it should be dirt cheap if nobody else is buying it?
The British fishing fleet does not fish for cod and haddock, the Norwegian fleet fishes for those and then exports them to the UK. The UK fishes mackerel, herring & blue whiting. https://www.seafish.org/insight-and-research/fishing-data-and-insight/ So the most popular fish Brits love to eat is all imported.
I love a bit of smoked/peppered mackerel but that's got exorbitant now too.
Most would want to offload their catch in the EU. Rules involving unfrozen meat crossing in from outside and fresh fish is worth more.
Probably for the same reasons we have an “energy crisis” whilst energy companies have record profits and when there’s a “cost of living” crisis whilst all those other companies have banger profits at our expense. Like how our national GDP goes up whilst all social programs, the nhs and schools/police/firefighters etc are all getting cuts. We are actively getting fucked
> But the government argued that comparing December 2020 export figures, the month before Brexit, with March 2023 – the last available figures – was “misleading”. > A government spokesperson said: “These figures are misleading as export figures are always very high in December due to Christmas demand compared with other months I mean... they're right, arbitrarily picking two months is an example of lying using cherry-picked statistics expand the period to be an entire year and that's a much more reliable basis for comparison
Exactly, this is like saying Brexit killed all festiveness in the UK. Immediately before the UK left the EU, British streets were lit up with jolly christmas displays, and Brits were happily wrapping presents for their loved ones. Now, there is not a single christmas tree to be found. Sad.
If it's just a quirk of the observation period why is the government concerned with reducing red tape or bunging the fishermen £100 million? Surely the oven-ready has ensured that it's all going fine us it is.
Hey, stop injecting reason and nuance. That's not allowed here. You're not some sort of dirty Brexit supporter, are you?
Surely, they could have found data comparing the same month the previous year.
I'm guessing that data didn't show what they wanted to see, so they ignored it
Good. They voted for Brexit, they can reap the ‘rewards’ of Brexit. They were warned consistently for 7 years to prepare for it. They chose to shout, mock & abuse anybody who dared point out the obvious to them. So do I care about these idiots destroying their own businesses? No I don’t. I care about the people who’s lives have been destroyed as they were dragged out against their will by these idiots.
The thing is, they’ll never admit it. It’s the same reason some victims of fraud testify for the person who scammed them. It’s an ego thing. Some people just cannot admit they’ve been had, but more than that, with brexit and certain other beliefs, people tie that up with their own sense of self, it becomes part of their personality. To admit it was wrong, Is to admit a part of themselves is and most people can’t do that. So they’ll just pivot, first of all it was the EU, then it was the remoaners, then it was the people who didn’t want a hard enough brexit, then it was project fear, then it was Russia and Putin, then it was the cost of living crisis but look it’s still bad in Germany, now it’s the tofu eating wokerati. Which by the way, as a political target the so called “wokerati” is genius, because it’s something you can never defeat, the EU is real, you can leave it, wars in Europe come to an end, economies rise and fall, but this so called anti woke stuff, it goes on forever, and you can literally use it to fit anything you don’t like. The people protecting their soft little egos literally never need to think again.
From the way I saw Brexit happen, it was completely frustrated from the initial result of the 2016 vote, deals being changed every 2 weeks and anti-leave politicians and figures blocking steps along the way. I wouldn't know what an actual, smooth Brexit would have looked like, but the current consequences of it are because as a nation, we couldn't agree what Brexit should be, so we ended up with was some shitty brexit enshrined in Tory rites, what nobody actually voted for.
Oh 100% what people voted for wasn’t a plan it was an ideal. It was some vision of a past, post war Britain that never really existed where you wake up in your village cottage, rolling hills around you, have a crumpet and read the paper about the shockingly low price of jam, you wave to the vicar as he cycles by and not a brown or foreign face in sight, your door is left unlocked as crime is non existent. It was never really like that but people are addicted to nostalgia and the feeling that things were just better when they were younger, none of us are immune, I’m 30 and even now people my age talk about the early 2000s like they were the peak of cultural achievement. The difference here is that, this was real, this was a vote that affected peoples lives. The other problem is that social media has turned politics into a sport, people have their team and they’ll do anything they can to back them. I see this on both sides as well, there’s loads of I hate the Tory scum twitter account’s constantly tweeting about how evil they are, for me they’re just as dangerous, because while in some case they may be right this insistence of “my side good, your side bad” means that when your side does something terrible, people have often put themselves into a position where they can’t call it out because to do so would make them hypocrites. I don’t think the scars of brexit will heal for a very long time
West Coast Scottish fishermen (the ones who catch the good stuff there's actually a demand for on the Continent) almost certainly did not vote for Brexit.
Are they members of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation? Because immediately after the referendum they came out and said it was the right decision.
There's this weird view out there that no true Scotsmen voted to leave, when in truth nearly 40% still did and the fishermen were in that group
Thank you, someone actually saying it. Constantly hearing SNP saying “Scotland didn’t vote for Brexit”. The majority didn’t. But 38% did. It’s a sizeable minority.
OK but I don't get this point, like everyone knows some people did vote for it and 62% is a pretty big majority regardless how you want to phrase it
Exactly 62 to 38 is a landslide in an election with 2 options
> Constantly hearing SNP saying “Scotland didn’t vote for Brexit”. >The majority didn’t. Gee, and you wonder why they say it?
Unfortunately, it's perfectly legal to be an insufferable pricks. I like penguins tho
Perfectly put
The fishermen in the North East did (the North East was the least pro-remain area in Scotland.) The fishermen on the West coast didn't.
Th eonly poll that was done of fishermen specifically only asked captains and owners of boats larger than 10m... aka not including most of the west coast fisherman who are small scale shellfish fishermen. That is where the whole narrative that fishermen voted for Brexit came from and it essentially just covered the large trawlers (and didn't ask the regular crew).
Creel fishermen on the East Coast were rabid Brexiteers. Until it almost killed their businesses.
It's a shame it didn't as I'd be laughing so loud they could hear me from Sweden, an entire sea and Norway away from them.
I'm sick of this argument. There's approximately 4 million people eligible to vote in Scotland, where approx. 1.5 million voted to remain, and 1 million voted to leave. Sure remain wins the popular vote on paper, but if a further 1.5 million Scots didn't bother to vote at all, then the minority of a remain vote is apparent taking the whole population into account. In actual terms, out of the whole Scottish electorate, 40% voted to leave, 20% leave and a further 40% didn't even bother
Why Good?, I did not vote leave. And those that did were lied to. It's fucked all round. Everyone is suffering for the lies and cash grab of the few at the top.
Yes, they were lied to. But the remain campaign repeatedly warned them about what was very likely to happen and that the leave campaign was bullshit. They wrote it all off as ProJEct FeAr.
The nation needs humbling clearly the amount it was between 1945 and the 70s was clearly not enough. There’s a significant portion still obsessed with empire and all that past shite. It sucks but we’ve tried the carrot with these morons for ages now they have to face the stick.
Ah yes no self loathing and completely normal and rational thoughts
Willful ignorance isn't ignorance. They weren't illiterate substinence farmers under a dictatorship, they had the tools and networks to find out the truth for themselves.
Oof. You really want people to suffer. Which lives have been destroyed,?
My food bill has gone up 25% since we left and thanks to inflation my mortgage is going through the roof. The IMF said our situation would have been much less serious had we not left the EU.
This is because of covid, not brexit.
Why is our inflation worse than comparable EU countries then? They also went through covid.
Exactly
Everywhere in the world is experiencing inflation. And they had zero to do with brexit. Its covid.
You do know less means that everyone is suffering inflation but because other nations didn’t impose economic sanctions on themselves? The inflation is **less** bad than other nations that also suffered Covid.
Also, what is not being said us how fucked it is in Europe. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-23/euro-zone-activity-almost-stalls-as-rebound-from-recession-fades#xj4y7vzkg https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/euro-zone-business-growth-stalls-june-flash-pmi-2023-06-23/ I can see us coming out of this better than Europe
That is not what us being pushed in thus sub. The narrative is 'my mortgage payments sre more because if brexit, my food costs more because of brexit. ' etc etc. Its covid.
🤦♂️
It's not worse though, unless you cherry pick dates. Germany is in recession for example.
Thank God for COVID. What would we be able to blame if COVID didn't happen? COVID might be the best thing that happened to Brexiters. Perfect diversion that affected more people than brexit could.
Don’t forget the war in Ukraine! That and COVID are the reason the country is utterly fucked. ^/s
This but unironically.
Except we’re worse off than literally all our neighbours. We were hit harder and are recovering slower. The pandemic and the war is an excuse that’s becoming flimsier by the day as everyone else shows sign of recovery and growth.
But it is covid. New Zealand have inflation, Australia, usa, Canada. Did they have brexit? Its covid. Its stopping production and paying people to stay at home and not produce . Its bailing out companies. Currencies got devalued so much by this. Its basic economics.
If you read the Daily Mail, yes it is.
I don't read the DM . And its basic economics. And everywhere in Europe has inflation, New Zealand and Australia have soaring food prices. Nowt to do with Brexit, poppit.
Yes except the UK’s inflation is a lot worse. So it’s not “basic economics,” unless you want to live with your head in the sand and act like the distinction doesn’t matter. The UK, unlike those other countries, decided to sever their ties with their closest trading partners and then act like prices would remain the same. The UK is now the poor man of Europe, falling living standards and nobody that will trade with them on as good of terms as the EU did. Blame it on global inflation though, we’ll see how the UK is in 10-15 years compared to Germany or France.
You keep deluding yourself Cupcake x
I voted remain, but it's clear that printing over £700 billion over a 3 year period (and the US printing much more) had more effect on inflation than imports being a bit more expensive. As well as the supply side issues that came post-covid. For reference, I believe from 2008 to 2020 quantitative easing resulted in an injection of around £250 billion into the money supply. Brexit would have increased inflation a little bit, but you wouldn't expect it to increase corporate greed and profits to the level that we see at the minute.
It’s both, surely?
Brexit happened before inflation. Covid caused inflation.
Have you not noticed that the conservatives just blame their wrong doings on the latest global event?
I am not a Conservative supporter. They need to be gone. Likely a Labour government next time. Which won't be much different, I don't think. If everywhere is suffering financial strife and everywhere is is suffering inflation, it is not brexit. Its not hard to see.
That's happening everywhere. Highly doubt something that happened almost 4 years ago is to blame.
If you voted for this, you won. Deal with it.
I am fine. I would like to know which lives have been destroyed?
My partner and her family have been forced to apply for settled status despite living in the uk since the 90s and owning a business. Have you ever been stopped by border control and told you're illegal while with your child and partner? Made feel like a criminal for coming home to the country you built a life in, pay taxes in, lived in because even though your parents are English, you where born abroad because they took advantage of EU membership that your child won't benefit from? That's just the tip of the iceberg. I'm watching peace in Ireland, a war i grew up with, being put at risk in the name of lies and feelings.
Do you mean like everyone else who had yo do thiscaction that was made very simple to do? And going through border control is not being made to feel like being a criminal. Also, lives not actually destroyed. They had to do some documentation. No one is hoing yo war in Ireland. The young people are educated differently and they are generally have a better standard of living.
If that's our experience, I can imagine it's worse for others. Not been following the whole loyalist DUP stuff have you?
They are loons. I am aware of that. The group most likely to push a united Ireland whilst pushing so hard against it. You've imagined it worse for others. Imagined.
So what you're saying is you have zero empathy for all those whose livelihoods have shrunk because uoy can't picture it?
Oh, so now its shrunk lives, not destroyed? This is my main problem with the remain camp. The absolute hyperbole amd when you question it, ask for examples, its not no where near as bad. You sound like the nedia when you do that. ITS THE WORST THING EVER! And its not.
Not the Brexiteers anyway - they're generally receiving proportionately more of the Cost Of Living supports, without shouldering a similar proportion of increased taxation. A wonderful example of Moral Hazard for future textbooks. Then again, the next goverment are very unlikely to be able to sustain this level of borrowing or spending, so the consequences are probably just temporarily delayed.
yes and they will blame the next government for it.
It wouldn’t be so bad if they were at least happy we have left, but they all seem bloody miserable.
We haven't properly left though
Oh, so not happened. Delayed. How long do we have to wait?
All those people born with the ability to live and work anywhere within the the EU who are now trapped on an island full of idiots who will not be content until they burn everything to the ground?
What are you talking about. They can leave. No ones life is destroyed. Get a grip. Also, get off your snobby high horse calling people idiots.
If the shoe fits bud. I don’t know if you’ve tried to move to another country, but without a work visa sponsored by a company in that country you are not going to be able to move there. Before Brexit we could up and move to Germany, France, Spain, Italy, whatever, to pursue our passions or chosen lifestyles just as easily as we can move from Manchester to London. Now only those of us fortunate enough to have talents that are sufficiently in demand that a foreign company is willing to sponsor us will have the opportunity to escape. You better believe that has left those of us who are able to look beyond our own navels pretty pissed off!
Sorrry you don't have skills
I don't think you are sorry. I'd say youre a little bit smug about making someone else's life as constrained and as unambitious as your own.
I think you have decided you know about me and you just don't.
Which country have you been prevented from moving to with your apparently 0 marketable skills?
You can always emigrate.
Only if they meet certain conditions which they may not be able to meet.
Are you saying countries across the globe have minimum requirements ? Weird…. Why would they do that ?!
There’s a big difference between having that freedom taken away and never having it in the first place. I’m sure you recognize that and are just here to stir shit, but it needs saying anyway.
Ahhh good, the exact sort of toxic division this country needs. Accept your responsibility and your own liability and stop being so childish and salty about it.
Your own responsibility? Remain voters are in no way responsible for this mess. I did not ask for a vote. I do not organise national political campaigns. We have every right to be bitter. The country is down the shitter because half the population are morons and won’t listen to reason. Being gracious about it lays the groundwork for the same thing to happen again, we need to be vocal and clear about just how terrible a decision brexit was, and how leave voters were duped into believing in absolute fantasy.
Do you actually believe the words you type? Are you playing dumb for the cameras or are you actually *that ignorant?* Remain voters are **as responsible** for our current situation as leave voters. **Nobody** can claim to have no responsibility for it, and here I shall demonstrate why: You may have voted on topics which made the EU offering worse. You may have voted for politicians who supported specific bills which made our engagement with the EU worse. You may have voted on any number of topics, directly or indirectly, which made other people want to vote for Brexit. This is, of course, in much the same way that no Brexiteer had the opportunity to specify which type of Brexit they wanted. Even if you've voted Labour your entire life, and against anything which might support Brexit, you've likely voted for things which made it more likely. Further, people who voted for Brexit were also more likely to vote against Blair for instance, who pretty much instigated modern division within the UK (one of the notable causes of Brexit). You can pretend that Brexit is a single-topic issue all you like, but you are quite frankly wrong in doing so. We are a democracy, we work at scale across the board, and whatever your vote was, it always sent a message. That message may be strong, or it may be weak. It may be for a shift left, or right. It may be that you always favoured the EU, in spite of some of their bad legislation... The simple fact is that putting your fingers in your ears and crying "it's all your fault" is toxic division. "They voted for Brexit, they can reap the 'rewards' of Brexit" is pretty much exactly that. It is ignorance in its purest form to take no responsibility at all. We are all responsible, we have all made decisions which led to this state - big or small, they all have an impact. The utterly nonsensical sentiment that "I didn't vote for it, so it's your own fault" is pointless and demonstrably false. You were part of the cause, now stop trying to make it worse with division. Do something productive - however small. Start a conversation about an approach to resolve it, do some political campaigning to join an FTA with the EU. Do literally anything, but don't just sit there pointing fingers and flinging faeces, because you're only ever going to make our problems worse. Edit: You can take logic and reason to Reddit, but you can't make Reddit logical or reasonable.
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>By that logic, no one is to blame for anything. That's kinda the point of a democracy, we the voting public do not take responsibility for such decisions, because we elect other people to do so for us. To take a few examples... Do you not think that a soft Brexit involving our membership of the EFTA may have been successful? Or that May's compromise deal would've been successful? Do you not think that had Cameron been a bit more generous in his tenure, it would've been harder to make the argument for economic freedom? Or that had Blair not invaded Afghanistan, that the public purse would've been better off to the point that any fiscal argument would've been subdued? Politics isn't about individual decisions, nor a single butterfly. Politics is about all 70mn people (or even half of them) in the UK jumping up and down at the same time, causing a seismic shift in the political landscape - something which despite your poorly chosen metaphors, is entirely possible. My point here is not that I voted for it, but it's your fault, it's that **we** voted for it, and it's **our** fault. Collectively, as a country, we voted to join the EU (by a smaller proportion than that which voted to leave, I might add). We also voted to leave. We voted governments into power, who failed to deliver on numerous counts, and we continued to do so. We are the people, and we are a geographically determined group. If we turn on each other, we find no answers worth looking for, but we do find ourselves turning on each other, and wasting energy looking to offend and belittle, rather than to repair and recover. The alternative theory, of course, is that half the country just woke up one day and switched sides. They saw some article on the Daily Mail about Polish people coming over here and stealing our jobs, and decided enough was enough... Perhaps I'm naïve for believing that the country ranked 2nd in the world for education would be influenced by observed problems, as opposed to invented gossip.
NO.
I hear using multiple exclamation marks can make a denial of fact even more emphatic
Fortunately, I prefer to provide logic and reason than emphasis... This guy, though, even went to the effort of pressing caps lock before typing his argument.
Yes.
Absolutely delusional.
Have you considered at all trying to come up with some sort of coherent argument against it? Or are you legitimately happy that your entire contribution to this discussion is little more than a passing insult?
No because your argument is ridiculous. You may as well say someone from a century ago is also responsible. The only ones responsible for it are the ones who voted for it. End of.
I don't think I've been on this sub for a long time and I can't believe the division is still as big as it is over Brexit. Instead of us all blaming each other, we could blame an establishment that has restricted our choice and pushed us towards a situation of staggering inequality and an incredibly unhealthy economy over the past 50 years. These two defining features of our country at the minute would be true whether we were in the EU or whether we were out of it, and it doesn't have to be the case either in the EU or out of it. Like our elections, we were given a choice that either way we would not be knocked off our ideological course. P.s. the hatred from many remainers on this post is appalling, taking glee from people's suffering because of one vote they made. If you still are this unsympathetic 3 years on, then despite whatever perception you have of yourself, you are not the adult in the room. I'm not attacking all remainers there, I voted remain myself, only the ones that are keeping the rhetoric dialed to 11 and show little compassion for their compatriots.
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Not really my kink, but you do you.
'Salty', thanks for reminding us of how Brexiters threw those insults at us 'remoaners' before they opened their brexit gift and found it to be a house brick. Turns out they wanted a house brick anyway and if they didn't it wasn't their fault.
For years I relayed information from experts about this but got called a “Remoaner” or a “snowflake.”
I refuse to believe that. It is fake news and project fear. It is not happening. Lalalalalala unicorns lalalala
Ben Habib?
Something something the Irish's fault
Wokeist literati project fear Brexit dividend bang your pans for a doctor Pork markets!
Stop cribbing and moaning from the sidelines, and talking down talk the economy, there is *going to be* a [soft landing](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/taoiseach-apologises-for-suicide-remarks-in-speech-1.948363). /s Said before one of the biggest property and economic crashes ever, followed by a political earthquake, but still looks bearable in comparison to what the UK is sliding into currently while the political class pretend everything is fine.
You know, a part of me would like to see him as PM and his patty in power. Just so I could watch that train wreak.
It is fake news, and I say that as a remain voter with no axe to gring. https://www.farmersguide.co.uk/uk-red-meat-exports-soar-to-unprecedented-heights/
Comparing two different months a couple of years apart is pretty shoddy... If you look at the industry data for exports for example, it doesn't seem to fit (And there have been large downturns too), throw in that they've gone by weight rather than by value (at points where presumably there is a lot of seasonal variation) and I'm a little sceptical. Well that and it's the Indy.
Yet [leavers still think it’s a good idea](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3f45963c-10fd-11ee-9d84-6e8ed24abaa3).
It is a political cult.
Don't see the issue. Surely we are making up for slumping EU sales with these super trade deals Boris and his cohort said we were going to see. You know with the Yanks, and heaven forbid the one we signed with the Aussies. You know how Brexit was going to open the door of possibilities....
“Oven ready deal.”
The only thing more frustrating than hearing facts like this is hardened brexiteers denying it has anything to do with brexit.
> "Facts" It's a statistic, and a deliberately misleading one. I voted remain, but this is just bait and you're taking it. They have taken fish exports for December 2020 and compared it to Mark 2023. You can't compare two different months like that and pretend its a year on year statistic. Even then it doesn't necessarily imply a causal link. Weak shit by Labour.
It's always a deployment of the Covid Card and/or Ukraine War Warrant, isn't it?
Very peculiar that they picked those specific dates for the statistics. The last month before regulations come into play vs a recent month at a time when exports are likely to be high... I wonder if anyone will ever present appropriate statistics which demonstrate whether exports have fallen anywhere near as significantly... I feel compelled to clarify: Knowing that Brexit was happening at the end of December, it seems apparent to me that in December people would be pushing to export more produce more quickly to mitigate the risk of issues - so exports were likely increased significantly. Further, I don't know why it's the case but it seems detailed in the article itself that exports are generally higher in December regardless. Overall, this article says nothing of any value to anyone.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if they had fallen very significantly. But the fact they didn't use Dec 2022 makes me suspicious they haven't and are having to manipulate statistics to drive a narrative. Then again, to be honest I actually just suspect its incredibly incompetent Labour 'analysts', there was some really dire 'stats' like that in the Corbyn era.
Significantly, sure. I mean, 20% would be a fairly healthy estimate. "Slump by half" though is almost certainly false, especially given the lack of context and their self-proclaimed questionable data. Such is life, though. The media is always full of crap to spoonfeed the masses.
This isn’t really the media driving it too hard - it’s a Labour pack that they’re repeating but also pointing out the criticism from the tories. I’d guess the months are packed not because the outcome is any different but because it’s more significant.
https://www.farmersguide.co.uk/uk-red-meat-exports-soar-to-unprecedented-heights/
That doesn't necessarily seem a bad thing. I mean, this would be perfectly compatible with even the most optimistic Brexiter predictions about how brexit would open brand new markets and allow more of our trade to go elsewhere. The place our exports go to doesn't really matter so much as how much we're exporting, and the value we're getting from it - you'd expect this no matter how good or bad brexit really was. If exports to the EU drop by 0.1 Billion, but increase by 1.1 Billion worldwide (as was the case in April), that's a positive thing, even though it'd show as a drop in the proportion of EU trade. Which kind of makes me a bit suspicious of this - why use this irrelevant figure, and why only mention meat and fish? Picking just one sector to talk about kind of raises suspicions of cherry picking, especially when it seems like a pretty small proportion of our exports. Looking at the stats, [exports in general](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/uk-trade-in-numbers/uk-trade-in-numbers-web-version) actually seem to be doing surprisingly well. 2022 seems to have been relatively positive, with total exports up 22.8%. Even more surprisingly, even exports to the EU were up (there was a drop / stagnation around 2018, but we're now back above pre-brexit levels). The Non-EU increase is only slightly higher, so I think most of the change brexit caused was ~2016-2019, and we've normalised a bit now. Looking at beef specifically, total exports seem [fine](https://www.statista.com/statistics/298117/eu-and-non-eu-export-volume-of-beef-veal-united-kingdom-uk/) as of 2022 at least (second highest volume on record in fact). And TBH, EU exports actually seem surprisingly *high* - pre brexit levels were~ 8000 tons (~5000 pre 2013), whereas 2022 was 29,207 tons. Which, yeah, is down from the peak of 2010 (44,980) (though the total exports are up), but we actually still seem to be exporting significantly more to the EU than we used to pre-brexit. 2022 looks like it was the third highest year for EU beef exports **ever** - it's only down because it's being compared to the first, even if the proportion *was* the relevant measure. As such, this seems a **deeply** misleading statistic. They've picked one particular industry, taken a baseline of a record-setting year for EU exports, and compared only that proportion, even though **total** exports are around the same. I think brexit was a terrible idea and absolutely bad for the country. But frankly, I think these statistics reflect worse on those who compiled them than they do about the government.
It's frustrating seeing how quickly people swallow lies if the lies support their prejudices. Like you, I voted in, but I am totally pragmatic - and so far nothing bad seems to have happened ( well, nothing which isn't also happening in the EU ) so I don't see any point in rejoining.
Ha, one of the most common counterarguments to rejoining the EU is that we'd lose our fishing privileges, which is ridiculous because fishing is inconsequential to the British economy but now even the fishers are suffering from Brexit. Any more counterarguments to rejoining brexiteers?
Is that really the most common counterargument, or is that just a straw man?
So they are selling it somewhere else, maybe to the U.K., maybe to the other 165 countries on planet now it’s more or less a level playing field regards paperwork for exporting, and importing. No where in that article does it say they are selling less, probably because that doesn’t make a story.
So you're just assuming that because you want to believe it?
I’m assuming it because they haven’t said otherwise. No where does it say fishermen and farmers are down half on their exports. But hey ho, you believe what you want.
I think if you want to close your eyes and ignore the stuff in front of you and replace it with stuff that supports your world view that's your right. But you might find people asking you to provide sources for your entirely made up reality.
So show me where farmers and fishermen are 50% down on their sales, because it isn’t in this article.
Wait doesn't that mean I can just assume it because it's not mentioned?
Yes. The EU accounted for less than 50% of our exports, so with half of that gone it leaves just a 25% shortage to find new markets for. And that’s what’s happened. Again if you can show me farmers and fishermen are 50% down on sales I’ll happily be corrected.
The only person who needs a reality check is the one who assumes total exports are down when that information hasn’t been provided.
Eh, exports to an important trade partner are down substantially, I think assuming that total exports are therefore fine and unchanged is... Slightly wishful thinking.
You think ASSUMING! That’s the problem, you are making statements when the only logical assumption would be to that IF trade was down as a whole then that would be reported not just that it’s trade with one trading partner. The assumption here is made based on the fact trade as a whole is a more important factor than trade just with one trading partner. As such it is that which would be reported.
Which statement in particular that I have made in this thread do you find the most objectionable?
First off I’m not the original person you responded to. What I find objectionable is that you have made an assumption (self confessed) then accused others of not ‘opening their eyes’ when you’ve clearly, and as stated, made up the missing information to support your world view. It’s nuts ! Edit - on a side note you need to be far more sceptical of the media. They lead you down this path with the line underneath the heading, but fleshed the facts out in the article once the notion that ‘total sales were down’ was planted in your mind.
What assumption have I made and where did I make it?
It’s exactly this, they are suggesting total exports are down 50%, that impossible as the EU didn’t even make up 50% of exports. But people read the headline without giving it a grain of thought. But it ok as it’s leavers that were lied to and conned. Remainers are far to intelligent to be fooled by a headline…….
Trouble is, some people think we only traded with the EU, whereas the reality actual is they didn’t account for even half our exports.
> So they are selling it somewhere else They arent, they cant be, they're landing less fish. 20% less between '21 and '22. Fish processing plants have also been closing in the UK, like the two in Grimsby. ~600 people out of a job.
I don’t think meat come from the sea. That’ll be the fish.
https://www.farmersguide.co.uk/uk-red-meat-exports-soar-to-unprecedented-heights/
Thanks, don’t let in to those that “know” different!
As I understand, several years ago UK bought a lot of cod from Russia. Maybe that practice was changed now, which explains why UK sells less fish for now to EU: it is for internal use.
Yes could mean more UK purchasing which would be a positive.
>These figures are misleading as export figures are always very high in December due to Christmas demand compared with other months LOL, it's over 2.5 years...
No they compared exports in December to exports in March. Demand varies by season and December is 1) right before Christmas and 2) was right before new regulations came into play. It's not a fair comparison at all and this is shoddy statistics at best and deliberate massaging of the data to fit a narrative at worst. Compare December 2020 to December 2022 or compare aggregate for the year 2020 to aggregate for the year 2022.
I read it as aggregate
I love fish so this is a benefit for me. At least there is one positive I guess
I'm not seeing this as a bad thing. Fewer fish sold means fewer fish taken from the sea which hopefully means that in some, small way, fish stocks might recover. Shouldn't we be trying to reduce the amount of miles that food is being sent to reduce our carbon footprint? If it becomes more economical to eat locally sourced food, great?
If you want to reduce your carbon footprint forget eating local. Stop eating meat instead
Better still. ... stop eating altogether..... one less Brexiter to feed....or worry about... after all... they voted for this!
You guys can afford to eat meat?
I mean, would this really be considered that big of a deal? Most of our meat and fish is imported to Britain, regardless of the intended message here, surely it would be better to mention changes to EU imports than UK exports.
Who the fuck is cockblocking post Brexit UK? Will Boris'...Nigel's..Truss'(?) Brexit Dreamz™ be kicked down tbe road AGAIN cuz EU! I mean, who else? Don't you smugass EU drifters blame the UK one minute for the brain drain to the EU. That's right Brexit Unbelievables™ and EU the orgasm of free enterprise swelling in the UK testicles has yet to explode! REQUEST: If you have an Amazon Echo ask it where the EU is headquartered. My US based Echo says...London every time. Brexit and is forced to relocate to London Uand or the European Union is headquarters guess what they say
Does that mean that the price of those items are lower now within the UK? I don’t know. Disclaimer: I don’t live in the UK anymore.
I don't know how the Indy came up with their figures, but looking at the data they are looking a singular point, where trade to the EU spiked, vs some other month where it wasn't spiking. I can only imagine that is the case as the farmers themselves seem to think trade is doing well. https://www.farmersguide.co.uk/uk-red-meat-exports-soar-to-unprecedented-heights/