Snapshot of _Cancer sufferer who ended life at Dignitas sends final assisted dying message to politicians_ :
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An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/21/cancer-sufferer-who-died-at-dignitas-sends-final-message/) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/21/cancer-sufferer-who-died-at-dignitas-sends-final-message/)
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What I find laughable is that we call ourselves civilised and intelligent, yet there exists the asinine, self-righteous opinion that what an autonomous human does with their own body is somehow out business.
How is it that it's fine for us to make the choice to put down say, another creature with consciousness and emotions when it has a terminal illness that will ultimately cause great suffering and depravity, but we don't allow the same liberties and right for someone making that choice for themselves?
If people decide they want to die, that's between themselves ultimately, it won't stop them doing what they want at the end of the day but at least legalising it will put in a framework to allow for the safe, comfortable and dignified means of doing so, and providing a safe space to discuss this with loved ones and mitigate negative repercussions, rather than, say, forcing them to attempt it themselves and surviving with repercussions that makes everything worse.
Well, I'm afraid the slippery slope argument has merit when you look at what is happening in the Netherlands and Belgium. I have every sympathy with this lady, the last stages of cancer are horrific, but when it leads to otherwise healthy people who suffer from depression being offed, I'd rather not introduce it in the first place.
Ah well that's okay then
Fuck all those living in agony with no hope of improvement, at least you get to feel good that some poor bastard with depression doesn't get bodily autonomy
It's none of your businesses if a depressed person wants to kill themself, they'll probably end up doing whether the state helps or not. I'd rather its done reliably, comfortably, painlessly, and with as much dignity as possible
Severely depressed people can get better. Terminally ill cancer patients cannot.
If the state is unable to discern between the two, which I believe would happen if these sorts of laws are allowed to take root, then I'm not interested.
I’m not the original poster but I would consider if very much my business if I had a friend who was depressed, and the state was telling him/her that it was okay to kill themselves.
It’s already “okay” to kill yourself from the state’s perspective. It’s not illegal to do or to attempt and many do. It’s only illegal for other people to assist you.
In that case we should stop morphine and similar drugs being used as pain medication in hospital because it’s often misused illegally as a recreational drug. Stopping producing morphine will help prevent the damage it causes drug addicts and is a price worth paying. Right?
It is not immediately obvious, however upon reflection of what life is, it is clear that any kind of right to suicide is contradictory.
"But the main question is: have I a right to commit suicide? The answer will be that, as this individual, I am not master of my life, for the comprehensive totality of activity, i.e, life, is not something external to personality, which is itself immediately this. Thus, it is a contradiction to speak of a person’s right over his life, for this would mean that a person had a right over himself. But he has no such right, for he does not stand above himself and cannot pass judgement on himself. When Hercules burned himself to death or Brutus fell on his sword, this was a hero’s behaviour in relation to his own personality; but if it is a question of a simple right to kill oneself, such a right may be denied even to heroes (Philosophy of Right, § 70)"
https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/nietzstu-2022-0002/html?lang=en#:~:text=Hegel's%20argument%20against%20the%20permissibility,appropriate%20judgment%20about%20its%20value.
This is why approaches to this question need to be societal and communal.
Snapshot of _Cancer sufferer who ended life at Dignitas sends final assisted dying message to politicians_ : A non-Paywall version can be found [here](https://1ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2024%2F03%2F21%2Fcancer-sufferer-who-died-at-dignitas-sends-final-message%2F) An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/21/cancer-sufferer-who-died-at-dignitas-sends-final-message/) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/21/cancer-sufferer-who-died-at-dignitas-sends-final-message/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I have terminal stomach cancer. Not looking forward to being made to live through the late stages tbh.
What I find laughable is that we call ourselves civilised and intelligent, yet there exists the asinine, self-righteous opinion that what an autonomous human does with their own body is somehow out business. How is it that it's fine for us to make the choice to put down say, another creature with consciousness and emotions when it has a terminal illness that will ultimately cause great suffering and depravity, but we don't allow the same liberties and right for someone making that choice for themselves? If people decide they want to die, that's between themselves ultimately, it won't stop them doing what they want at the end of the day but at least legalising it will put in a framework to allow for the safe, comfortable and dignified means of doing so, and providing a safe space to discuss this with loved ones and mitigate negative repercussions, rather than, say, forcing them to attempt it themselves and surviving with repercussions that makes everything worse.
Well, I'm afraid the slippery slope argument has merit when you look at what is happening in the Netherlands and Belgium. I have every sympathy with this lady, the last stages of cancer are horrific, but when it leads to otherwise healthy people who suffer from depression being offed, I'd rather not introduce it in the first place.
Ah well that's okay then Fuck all those living in agony with no hope of improvement, at least you get to feel good that some poor bastard with depression doesn't get bodily autonomy It's none of your businesses if a depressed person wants to kill themself, they'll probably end up doing whether the state helps or not. I'd rather its done reliably, comfortably, painlessly, and with as much dignity as possible
The state is our proxy, we are the state. I don't want to kill healthy people in my name. You have your view, I have mine.
Severly depressed people =/= healthy
Severely depressed people can get better. Terminally ill cancer patients cannot. If the state is unable to discern between the two, which I believe would happen if these sorts of laws are allowed to take root, then I'm not interested.
*Some* severly depressed people get better, many don't Again, it's none of your business if they want to off themselves
I’m not the original poster but I would consider if very much my business if I had a friend who was depressed, and the state was telling him/her that it was okay to kill themselves.
Your friend wanting to exercise their bodily autonomy, and the state facilitating that, *is* none of your business
We’ll have to disagree
It’s already “okay” to kill yourself from the state’s perspective. It’s not illegal to do or to attempt and many do. It’s only illegal for other people to assist you.
In that case we should stop morphine and similar drugs being used as pain medication in hospital because it’s often misused illegally as a recreational drug. Stopping producing morphine will help prevent the damage it causes drug addicts and is a price worth paying. Right?
It is not immediately obvious, however upon reflection of what life is, it is clear that any kind of right to suicide is contradictory. "But the main question is: have I a right to commit suicide? The answer will be that, as this individual, I am not master of my life, for the comprehensive totality of activity, i.e, life, is not something external to personality, which is itself immediately this. Thus, it is a contradiction to speak of a person’s right over his life, for this would mean that a person had a right over himself. But he has no such right, for he does not stand above himself and cannot pass judgement on himself. When Hercules burned himself to death or Brutus fell on his sword, this was a hero’s behaviour in relation to his own personality; but if it is a question of a simple right to kill oneself, such a right may be denied even to heroes (Philosophy of Right, § 70)" https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/nietzstu-2022-0002/html?lang=en#:~:text=Hegel's%20argument%20against%20the%20permissibility,appropriate%20judgment%20about%20its%20value. This is why approaches to this question need to be societal and communal.
So you’ve found one philosopher that agrees with you and consider the matter concluded
Hegel is not so much a philosopher in the weak sense. He thinks thought itself and this is the result.