Snapshot of _Labour election manifesto slated for June 13_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.politico.eu/article/labour-plans-june-13-manifesto-launch/) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.politico.eu/article/labour-plans-june-13-manifesto-launch/)
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60 pages of very low cost democracy lite bullshit. Citizens assemblies, a task force to address badger culling, a multi year review of asylum detention conditions etc. Nothing that really changes the direction of the country.
Ah GB Energy, where they won't build or own infrastructure and just pile money into private energy providers?
Why can't the UK have something like EDF instead?
It's such a half measure which is typical of Starmer and will lead to an extreme right wing government in 5 years.
I work in the renewables industry. GB energy is truly a nothingburger. Its very unlikely it will ever originate or build its own generation. It will mainly just be another "GB Investment Bank" or "Green Investment Bank" - an entity to provide capital to boring projects that would have gone ahead anyway (only), when thats not in short supply in the industry, and eventually be sold off to Macquarie or whoever.
Well that depends on what it says.
If it's full of "we'll stabilise the economy by stabilising the economy" then "no plan" will continue to be valid criticism.
They are doing that now! All this delay is just giving them free hits "there is no plan"
I know nobody else has their manifesto out - but that Tory attack is so well known - it should have been expected and an easy way to counter it is to release the manifesto.
the 2K thing has been put about for a number of weeks already.... This isn't some rabbit Sunak pulled out of his hat last night. If it's not gotten through yet, last night's hissy fit from Sunak won't have an impact....
Specially against the Farage effect
But the “no plan” attacks all get completely diffused when a costed manifesto is out - it doesn’t matter how long that goes on as long as there’s a solid couple of weeks in the run up to the election where the Tories main attack line is demonstrably not true.
But if they release a manifesto which isn’t absolutely watertight then the Tories will have new attack lines - so I’d rather they take the time they need to make sure they get it right - within reason
Officially, manifesto policies had to be submitted to Labour HQ in mid-Feb (they were all spouting it on the political chat shows at the time). Whilst I don’t doubt that has been changed since then, they definitely have something.
Also, it is standard election procedure for manifestos to come out 2-3 weeks before polling day. You want your manifesto to be part of the huge push towards polling day, only so long you can keep motivation on the ground.
There's no way someone as methodical as Starmer hasn't had this prepared for a while. He had his campaign launch video up within less than two hours of Sunak's announcement. There's nothing unusual about releasing a manifesto 3 weeks into a 6 week election campaign
normally wouldn't be a big deal, but Labour don't like to acknowledge the last few manifestos for some strange reason, unlike every other party where they can be reasonably used as a guide for what kind of things to expect, apparently the last 14 years for Labour are a no true scotsman we should all just pretend never happened
Are unsuccessful campaigns the right starting point for successful ones when looking at the manifesto? I'd suggest changing it to remain with the times and represent the people better is the very point of political representation. It's hardly the same party it was even a few years ago.
Well look at other parties, we don’t say that about the tories, the Lib Dem’s are still held to account for something that happened 3 leaders ago, they have a consistent set of policies and principles you don’t have to ask what they stand for, same with the greens nobody says ‘wait for the manifesto’, same with reform
But Labour? ‘Wait for the manifesto’ ‘it’s hardly the same party’
Labour went from centre left/right to very left and back again now, that’s why it’s ok to say wait for the manifesto.
Tories have been broadly the same since 2015, with their further right wing parts now taking a bigger piece of the pie. Lib Dems too.
I expect tories, should they lose as it inevitably looks to be, will go through a 2019 Labour moment and reassess. Or they’ll lurch even more to the right…
It’s disingenuous to say that Labour is in the same situation as the other two parties.
Tories are literally throwing anything at the wall lol what are you talking about? LD being held to account almost a decade ago has nothing to do with their current manifesto or what they stand for. I don't understand why you have a problem with waiting for the very well known manifesto that outlines all of this specifically for Labour. Are you aware that the Tories will undoubtedly throw more shite into theirs we don't know about?
I don’t have a problem but the Lib Dem’s I can tell you right now where they tend to stand on issues, I can point to PR, closer ties with the EU, drug decriminalisation even without a manifesto these are consistent policies and aims
greens you have a general idea of what they stand for without a manifesto
reform they don’t have a manifesto yet but it’s pretty clear what they stand for
Labour? ‘Wait for the manifesto’ the election is 4 weeks away, it’s weak, even under Corbyn people might have disagreed but they at least knew where he stood on issues because saying ‘wait for the manifesto’ is one thing but it can’t cover every single possible scenario
Like what’s the point of a party if they don’t know who they are and what they stand for outside of 3 weeks before an election?
Labour have been very clear on energy, on tax, on housing, NHS, immigration. Are they hugely ambitious? No, and anybody who says they are either are lying to you or lying to themselves given the reality of the situation.
It's very easy to be clear what you stand for when you're not a party like reform (cut immigration), or you know you're not getting into power (LD, Greens).
Tories rubbished the idea of national service two days before announcing it. They defended the non-dom then decided to include removing it like labour were. They've raised taxes to a 70 year high as the 'low tax party' lol. Their politicians don't know whether they support Farage or Sunak more and they keep parroting that Rwanda works when everybody and their grandmother know it doesn't.
Are you sure you know what party the Tories are?
If it were the same far-left leader in the same low-interest rate period then you could use it as a barometer. Things have changed and it would be utterly berserk to run on a similar platform to what was proposed before.
Do wonder if there will be any surprises to grab the headlines. So far there's been nothing new.
Part of me wonders if we'll get something like Lords reform. Was party policy before, rumoured to be dropped but never fully confirmed, it's a cheap and radical policy that would grab headlines without breaking fiscal rules.
6 weeks is a long time, I wonder if they're deliberately waiting so it's a bit fresher in people's minds by voting day?
Feels like a long time to wait mind.
Be more interested in what's not in there, and the wriggle room they leave themselves particularly around tax.
Some of there phrasing has been very precise and nuanced when responding to journalists and Tory attacks. That concerns me as my life choices have left me in a group that's not in the majority and has a target on it's back in the media/with politicians at the moment,, due to their simplistic language and lumping several groups together in a generic term.
For the first time ever I won't be voting unless the Labour manifesto reassures me that I'm not in a group that's going to be targeted for punitive tax rises/changes. I know none of the other tribes will offer anything to me as I'm not their target voter so I won't benefit from any of their policies that make "it" better for their supporters but will be expected to pay for them either directly or indirectly.
To be fair, the rot in our country goes way deeper than just the last government. Almost every problem in our country can ultimately be traced back to the Town and Country Planning Act of 1947. We can blame the tories for not doing anything about it in their 14 years in power, but nothing will fundamentally change until we accept that they were a symptom of our disease, not the root cause.
It is, but Labour are going to win a landslide regardless of what they say and do between now and the election date so I'd like them to be honest about what they ARE going to do if they want to majorly change anything in this country. A full non-dom status ban and VAT on private schools is all good, but it doesn't even touch the sides with the state of things at the minute if you actually want to significantly change anything and the idea it is is for the birds. I'd bet a lot that come Autumn they bring out a mini budget that says exactly the same as the 2010 coalition 'emergency budget' did - "It's actually far worse than the previous lot said, so, despite what we said, we're going to have to raise [insert tax here]".
The conservatives literally couldn't have been much worse over the last 14 years. Yet people still try to back up what they have done.
They have been one of the most corrupt, incompetent and self serving governments in living memory, yet people are having a dig at labour for not having a plan, which is the same nonsense that people spout about every shadow cabinet.
Labour are led by a hard working, honest man who's trying to his best for the country. Why don't we give him a chance for 5 years and see what can happen.
It sure as hell can't be worse than this.
Amd Starmer does have a plan. He wants to make a publicity owned utiltly organisation to avoid the horrors we've had recently with private energy companies cashing in on ukraine.
He has allocated funds to build far more houses than the Conservatives.
He's looking to reduce illegal immigration. Who'd have thought it would eb tbis way around!
He'll ditch the dodgy Rwanda policy and the 18 year old having to sign up for military service.
He's planning to fund the NHS better through our taxes.
> The conservatives literally couldn't have been much worse over the last 14 years. Yet people still try to back up what they have done.
Correct, and I'm not.
> They have been one of the most corrupt, incompetent and self serving governments in living memory, yet people are having a dig at labour for not having a plan, which is the same nonsense that people spoil about every shadow cabinet.
They are going to win a landslide, the country is fucked, it's not absolutely out there to ask what they're going to do if they want to significantly change anything.
> Labour are led by a hard working, honest man who's trying to his best for the country. Why don't w exist give him a chance for 5 years and see what cam happen.
> It sire has hell can't be worse than this.
I'm sure Labour will be better, but I don't somehow think they should be given a near non-existent amount of scrutiny.
> Amd Starmer does have a plan. He wants to make a publicity owned utiltly organisation to avoid the horrors we've had recently with private energy companies cashing in on ukraine.
I live in Bristol, the council formed Bristol Energy with exactly the same ideas. It had to be propped up through council funds until that was no longer viable and went bust.
> He has allocated funds to build far more houses than labour.
I assuming you mean the Tories. Great, how's it being paid for?
> He'll ditch the dodgy Rwanda policy and the 18 year old having to sign up for military service.
Yep, great, both dumb as shit distractions from all the actual issues we face.
> He's planning to fund the NHS better through our taxes.
Great, which ones? VAT, Income Tax, National Insurance? See my other reply, I bet they'll do exactly what the 2010 coalition government did and u-turn on tax rises immediately as the sooner you raise them the furthest you are away from the next election as that's, sadly, just good politics. But I'd still like them to have the decency to tell us what major tax they'll have to raise to significantly change something.
You're overcomplicating things for now. We need to get rid of the tories for good then we can have sensible debates on how to spend our money and divide up taxes etc.
We can't have rational discussions for now. You've seen how Johnson amd Sunak behave in debates .
I agree with you that Labour have a track record of having ideas and not following through on them. Or poorly funding publicly owned ventures. And I hope they improve on this.
I personally don't believe Labour is the long term answer either. But at this point I hope the conservatives get reduces to the annuls of history as a political party. Their policies amd what they stand for where old fashioned in the 1800s let alone now.
There are a lot good things about Starmer but I would not call him honest. He practically lied through his teeth to get elected in the leadership contest, I'm not sure there's a single thing left that he promised back then.
and for the record gb energy wont really be an energy company. It wont be owning or building anything, it will only be a financier for private energy companies... funded by taxing said energy companies. He's also specifically said they'll be extremely hands off with said investments, so in other words the energy companies will be able to do whatever they want with that money (which was just taken from them and given right back again).
The more I think about it, the more I realise that GB energy is exactly the kind of corrupt scheme that the tories would come up with. A nationalised company that doesn't really do anything but give money to private companies. I can only hope that labour will at least give away our money to the poor massive energy corporations equally and not to whatever energy companies are doing them the most favours that day. But I don't think that will happen. I almost guarantee almost all of those 'investments' will be given to the largest companies, bankrupting the smaller ones and creating even less competition. Effectively funnelling money up to the top of the industry.
I don't like Starmer at all, he lied through his teeth to get elected, but I will vote for him if the manifesto offers something that will get kids out of poverty, that will seriously take on billionaire tax avoiders, protects the NHS from privatisation and shows a long term strategy.
I severely doubt we'll get that though and it will be vague tinkering around the edges with things like 'security' 'change' etc.
Snapshot of _Labour election manifesto slated for June 13_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.politico.eu/article/labour-plans-june-13-manifesto-launch/) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.politico.eu/article/labour-plans-june-13-manifesto-launch/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well, at least after 13th June the ‘Labour has no plan’ line can finally die off.
That'll be when the "their plan hasn't been costed" line gets rolled out.
Let’s hope
Or be vindicated when there's nothing new whatsoever
I mean there has to be something in there. Are you expecting 60 pages of wingdings?
60 pages of wingdings would be a masterstroke
Theresa May tried that one year, and it didn't work.
60 pages of very low cost democracy lite bullshit. Citizens assemblies, a task force to address badger culling, a multi year review of asylum detention conditions etc. Nothing that really changes the direction of the country.
I mean they’ve already talked about some of their flagship policies like GB energy, which is a massive shakeup, as well as their work on the Border.
GB Energy will be another GB Investment Bank or Green Investment Bank or British Growth Fund and will be about as meaningful as any of those.
Ah GB Energy, where they won't build or own infrastructure and just pile money into private energy providers? Why can't the UK have something like EDF instead? It's such a half measure which is typical of Starmer and will lead to an extreme right wing government in 5 years.
Keir did say that it would generate energy in the debate but we'll have to wait for the manifesto to know for sure.
I’m pretty sure they want to invest in actually building renewables, but ok. Go off your assumptions.
I work in the renewables industry. GB energy is truly a nothingburger. Its very unlikely it will ever originate or build its own generation. It will mainly just be another "GB Investment Bank" or "Green Investment Bank" - an entity to provide capital to boring projects that would have gone ahead anyway (only), when thats not in short supply in the industry, and eventually be sold off to Macquarie or whoever.
Well that depends on what it says. If it's full of "we'll stabilise the economy by stabilising the economy" then "no plan" will continue to be valid criticism.
Seems to be still a long wait. Thought they would be ready to have this out the door. We now have still over a week to wait to see any detail.
The longer it is out, the longer your opponents gets to cook up the attack lines
They are doing that now! All this delay is just giving them free hits "there is no plan" I know nobody else has their manifesto out - but that Tory attack is so well known - it should have been expected and an easy way to counter it is to release the manifesto.
'there is no plan' isn't getting through to the public... It's a weak line that Tories have deluded themselves into thinking works....
[удалено]
Which will have the same effect as the No Plan.... Aka nothing.
That’s wishful thinking, a lot of the middle class swing voters will hear that and worry. We can’t count on everyone to do fact checking
the 2K thing has been put about for a number of weeks already.... This isn't some rabbit Sunak pulled out of his hat last night. If it's not gotten through yet, last night's hissy fit from Sunak won't have an impact.... Specially against the Farage effect
But the “no plan” attacks all get completely diffused when a costed manifesto is out - it doesn’t matter how long that goes on as long as there’s a solid couple of weeks in the run up to the election where the Tories main attack line is demonstrably not true. But if they release a manifesto which isn’t absolutely watertight then the Tories will have new attack lines - so I’d rather they take the time they need to make sure they get it right - within reason
I suspect it's likely they didn't have anything prepared. Mostly because nobody thought Sunak would even dream of holding an election this soon.
Officially, manifesto policies had to be submitted to Labour HQ in mid-Feb (they were all spouting it on the political chat shows at the time). Whilst I don’t doubt that has been changed since then, they definitely have something. Also, it is standard election procedure for manifestos to come out 2-3 weeks before polling day. You want your manifesto to be part of the huge push towards polling day, only so long you can keep motivation on the ground.
There's no way someone as methodical as Starmer hasn't had this prepared for a while. He had his campaign launch video up within less than two hours of Sunak's announcement. There's nothing unusual about releasing a manifesto 3 weeks into a 6 week election campaign
normally wouldn't be a big deal, but Labour don't like to acknowledge the last few manifestos for some strange reason, unlike every other party where they can be reasonably used as a guide for what kind of things to expect, apparently the last 14 years for Labour are a no true scotsman we should all just pretend never happened
Are unsuccessful campaigns the right starting point for successful ones when looking at the manifesto? I'd suggest changing it to remain with the times and represent the people better is the very point of political representation. It's hardly the same party it was even a few years ago.
Well look at other parties, we don’t say that about the tories, the Lib Dem’s are still held to account for something that happened 3 leaders ago, they have a consistent set of policies and principles you don’t have to ask what they stand for, same with the greens nobody says ‘wait for the manifesto’, same with reform But Labour? ‘Wait for the manifesto’ ‘it’s hardly the same party’
Labour went from centre left/right to very left and back again now, that’s why it’s ok to say wait for the manifesto. Tories have been broadly the same since 2015, with their further right wing parts now taking a bigger piece of the pie. Lib Dems too. I expect tories, should they lose as it inevitably looks to be, will go through a 2019 Labour moment and reassess. Or they’ll lurch even more to the right… It’s disingenuous to say that Labour is in the same situation as the other two parties.
The Corbyn manifestos were hardly Das Kapital
They were still a massive shift from Nee Labour and even Mililabour.
Tories are literally throwing anything at the wall lol what are you talking about? LD being held to account almost a decade ago has nothing to do with their current manifesto or what they stand for. I don't understand why you have a problem with waiting for the very well known manifesto that outlines all of this specifically for Labour. Are you aware that the Tories will undoubtedly throw more shite into theirs we don't know about?
I don’t have a problem but the Lib Dem’s I can tell you right now where they tend to stand on issues, I can point to PR, closer ties with the EU, drug decriminalisation even without a manifesto these are consistent policies and aims greens you have a general idea of what they stand for without a manifesto reform they don’t have a manifesto yet but it’s pretty clear what they stand for Labour? ‘Wait for the manifesto’ the election is 4 weeks away, it’s weak, even under Corbyn people might have disagreed but they at least knew where he stood on issues because saying ‘wait for the manifesto’ is one thing but it can’t cover every single possible scenario Like what’s the point of a party if they don’t know who they are and what they stand for outside of 3 weeks before an election?
Labour have been very clear on energy, on tax, on housing, NHS, immigration. Are they hugely ambitious? No, and anybody who says they are either are lying to you or lying to themselves given the reality of the situation. It's very easy to be clear what you stand for when you're not a party like reform (cut immigration), or you know you're not getting into power (LD, Greens). Tories rubbished the idea of national service two days before announcing it. They defended the non-dom then decided to include removing it like labour were. They've raised taxes to a 70 year high as the 'low tax party' lol. Their politicians don't know whether they support Farage or Sunak more and they keep parroting that Rwanda works when everybody and their grandmother know it doesn't. Are you sure you know what party the Tories are?
If it were the same far-left leader in the same low-interest rate period then you could use it as a barometer. Things have changed and it would be utterly berserk to run on a similar platform to what was proposed before.
Do wonder if there will be any surprises to grab the headlines. So far there's been nothing new. Part of me wonders if we'll get something like Lords reform. Was party policy before, rumoured to be dropped but never fully confirmed, it's a cheap and radical policy that would grab headlines without breaking fiscal rules.
Another 9 days of policy vacuum? Wonderful.
6 weeks is a long time, I wonder if they're deliberately waiting so it's a bit fresher in people's minds by voting day? Feels like a long time to wait mind.
Be more interested in what's not in there, and the wriggle room they leave themselves particularly around tax. Some of there phrasing has been very precise and nuanced when responding to journalists and Tory attacks. That concerns me as my life choices have left me in a group that's not in the majority and has a target on it's back in the media/with politicians at the moment,, due to their simplistic language and lumping several groups together in a generic term. For the first time ever I won't be voting unless the Labour manifesto reassures me that I'm not in a group that's going to be targeted for punitive tax rises/changes. I know none of the other tribes will offer anything to me as I'm not their target voter so I won't benefit from any of their policies that make "it" better for their supporters but will be expected to pay for them either directly or indirectly.
Which group are you talking about? Non-doms?
On the evening of the 13th in CCHQ an aid copy pastes into their manifesto, sprinkles some dog whistles in and calls it a day.
Wow, 60 pages of "Isn't it all very difficult, corrrrrr, difficult, all the Tories fault, get change with Labour".
Well it is the tories fault seeing as they’ve been in power for the last 14 years
To be fair, the rot in our country goes way deeper than just the last government. Almost every problem in our country can ultimately be traced back to the Town and Country Planning Act of 1947. We can blame the tories for not doing anything about it in their 14 years in power, but nothing will fundamentally change until we accept that they were a symptom of our disease, not the root cause.
It is, but Labour are going to win a landslide regardless of what they say and do between now and the election date so I'd like them to be honest about what they ARE going to do if they want to majorly change anything in this country. A full non-dom status ban and VAT on private schools is all good, but it doesn't even touch the sides with the state of things at the minute if you actually want to significantly change anything and the idea it is is for the birds. I'd bet a lot that come Autumn they bring out a mini budget that says exactly the same as the 2010 coalition 'emergency budget' did - "It's actually far worse than the previous lot said, so, despite what we said, we're going to have to raise [insert tax here]".
Which is why they are taking their time and making the manifesto water-tight? I vote Plaid Cymru so dont have a horse in this race so to speak.
Hope springs eternal.
The conservatives literally couldn't have been much worse over the last 14 years. Yet people still try to back up what they have done. They have been one of the most corrupt, incompetent and self serving governments in living memory, yet people are having a dig at labour for not having a plan, which is the same nonsense that people spout about every shadow cabinet. Labour are led by a hard working, honest man who's trying to his best for the country. Why don't we give him a chance for 5 years and see what can happen. It sure as hell can't be worse than this. Amd Starmer does have a plan. He wants to make a publicity owned utiltly organisation to avoid the horrors we've had recently with private energy companies cashing in on ukraine. He has allocated funds to build far more houses than the Conservatives. He's looking to reduce illegal immigration. Who'd have thought it would eb tbis way around! He'll ditch the dodgy Rwanda policy and the 18 year old having to sign up for military service. He's planning to fund the NHS better through our taxes.
> The conservatives literally couldn't have been much worse over the last 14 years. Yet people still try to back up what they have done. Correct, and I'm not. > They have been one of the most corrupt, incompetent and self serving governments in living memory, yet people are having a dig at labour for not having a plan, which is the same nonsense that people spoil about every shadow cabinet. They are going to win a landslide, the country is fucked, it's not absolutely out there to ask what they're going to do if they want to significantly change anything. > Labour are led by a hard working, honest man who's trying to his best for the country. Why don't w exist give him a chance for 5 years and see what cam happen. > It sire has hell can't be worse than this. I'm sure Labour will be better, but I don't somehow think they should be given a near non-existent amount of scrutiny. > Amd Starmer does have a plan. He wants to make a publicity owned utiltly organisation to avoid the horrors we've had recently with private energy companies cashing in on ukraine. I live in Bristol, the council formed Bristol Energy with exactly the same ideas. It had to be propped up through council funds until that was no longer viable and went bust. > He has allocated funds to build far more houses than labour. I assuming you mean the Tories. Great, how's it being paid for? > He'll ditch the dodgy Rwanda policy and the 18 year old having to sign up for military service. Yep, great, both dumb as shit distractions from all the actual issues we face. > He's planning to fund the NHS better through our taxes. Great, which ones? VAT, Income Tax, National Insurance? See my other reply, I bet they'll do exactly what the 2010 coalition government did and u-turn on tax rises immediately as the sooner you raise them the furthest you are away from the next election as that's, sadly, just good politics. But I'd still like them to have the decency to tell us what major tax they'll have to raise to significantly change something.
You're overcomplicating things for now. We need to get rid of the tories for good then we can have sensible debates on how to spend our money and divide up taxes etc. We can't have rational discussions for now. You've seen how Johnson amd Sunak behave in debates .
While I agree on the broad strokes, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the specifics, as I think that's a complete cop out.
I agree with you that Labour have a track record of having ideas and not following through on them. Or poorly funding publicly owned ventures. And I hope they improve on this. I personally don't believe Labour is the long term answer either. But at this point I hope the conservatives get reduces to the annuls of history as a political party. Their policies amd what they stand for where old fashioned in the 1800s let alone now.
There are a lot good things about Starmer but I would not call him honest. He practically lied through his teeth to get elected in the leadership contest, I'm not sure there's a single thing left that he promised back then. and for the record gb energy wont really be an energy company. It wont be owning or building anything, it will only be a financier for private energy companies... funded by taxing said energy companies. He's also specifically said they'll be extremely hands off with said investments, so in other words the energy companies will be able to do whatever they want with that money (which was just taken from them and given right back again). The more I think about it, the more I realise that GB energy is exactly the kind of corrupt scheme that the tories would come up with. A nationalised company that doesn't really do anything but give money to private companies. I can only hope that labour will at least give away our money to the poor massive energy corporations equally and not to whatever energy companies are doing them the most favours that day. But I don't think that will happen. I almost guarantee almost all of those 'investments' will be given to the largest companies, bankrupting the smaller ones and creating even less competition. Effectively funnelling money up to the top of the industry.
I don't like Starmer at all, he lied through his teeth to get elected, but I will vote for him if the manifesto offers something that will get kids out of poverty, that will seriously take on billionaire tax avoiders, protects the NHS from privatisation and shows a long term strategy. I severely doubt we'll get that though and it will be vague tinkering around the edges with things like 'security' 'change' etc.