Snapshot of _Nigel Farage hit by race row over claim Rishi Sunak “doesn't understand our culture” | Laura Kuenssberg said he was “trying not very subtly to emphasise the prime minister's immigrant heritage”_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-on-the-rack-over-claim-rishi-sunak-doesnt-understand-our-culture_uk_666565a5e4b020eec9acb550) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-on-the-rack-over-claim-rishi-sunak-doesnt-understand-our-culture_uk_666565a5e4b020eec9acb550)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think the Labour interviewee got this spot on. Farage has form for this, he is an expert at fishing around on the boundary of what is acceptable, then drawing back and acting as if nothing has happened. He baits those who want to call him a racist into over-the-top reactions while also appealing to the hard right with the dog-whistle style phrasing. He absolutely wants people to make a fuss about this and the left shouldn't take the bait.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy
"motte-and-bailey fallacy (named after the motte-and-bailey castle) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy where an arguer conflates two positions that share similarities, one modest and easy to defend (the "motte") and one much more controversial and harder to defend (the "bailey").[1] The arguer advances the controversial position, but when challenged, insists that only the more modest position is being advanced."
Thank you for the introduction to this fallacy. Farage, for all his faults and obnoxious nature is a master of this particular tactic.
When Farage says Sunak 'doesn't understand our culture' he invites right wing xenophobes to interpret this as being because Sunak is of Indian heritage. However, he can easily defend the claim by those who disagree with the common thread of 'othering' and distrust of foreigners that runs through Farage's many many public statements.
Clever particularly since, apart from racial heritage, Farage and Sunak have a lot of similarities in terms of education and employment in the financial sector prior to politics.
He's a very slippery switched on operator, when I saw his TV show I was a bit taken aback on how good and natural he is as a TV presenter. He's probably better than a lot of people who do that for a living. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him but the reality is he can run rings around people in a debate.
That he is.
He has been around a long time and had more TV time than just about any politician out there.
And yes he does do this for a living.
He can attack constantly and hard to hit as he doesn't have any real policies to scrutinise.
The fact that he said whilst on I'm A Celeb that he wanted to do the trials because it equates to 25% of the airtime tells you everything you need to know really
Yeh, he wants to be seen.
Notice though who he surrounds himself with and his backers are very not that jolly.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/whos-the-aristocratic-convicted-fraudster-at-nigel-farages-side-mg7hp0l5c#:~:text=George%20Cottrell%2C%2030%2C%20is%20an,the%20King%20in%20the%201970s
Or his other friend
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/16/arron-banks-allegedly-gave-450000-funding-to-nigel-farage-after-brexit-vote
I mean we've watched Farage on our screens now for almost two decades. How he always unravels and becomes tetchy is by getting him to focus on the detail of what he's proposing, and the economics. The other obvious one is he's blamed NATO for provoking Putin and causing the Ukrainian war. **Alot of his views on foreign policy line up perfectly with Tankies who hate the West.**
He's espoused pro Kremlin propaganda his entire career, if Journos wanted to end him they could. If Mordant wanted to end him or question his credibility in defence in the debate, she could have.
I'd be very interested to see Farage and Starmer in a debate, given the latter has decades of legal experience to draw on as well has handling the hard-left side of his own party.
It'd be an interesting one because starmer has clearly been advised and coached to try and not say anything outrageous ahead of the election so would probably hold back, but at the same time the left and centre both fucking hate farage with good reason so there minimal risk of losing votes.
It's precisely because the Tories and Reform are both insane that Labour need to appear sane and level-headed. There's nothing they would like better than for Labour to join them in the race to the bottom of the insanity barrel.
I wouldn't.
It would just be Farage speaking over Starmer whenever says something vaguely damaging to him and refusing to go into details with big emotive hand waving statements.
True.
But that's because any lawyer who behaved like Sunak would have been chucked out of the court room. How do you counter a shout liar where each topic is covered so quickly?
Sunak is a privileged and fairly self centred idiot who is out of his depth. If not for him stumbling into power, the worst you'd probably say about him is that he's a tosser.
Farage and Johnson are repugnant on another level. Much more calculating, callous, duplicitous, disloyal, self serving, and unashamedly racist. I don't know about truss. She just seems delusional more than anything else.
Edit: I'm probably being a little too generous to Sunak. He was perfectly happy to throw vulnerable people under the bus in service of culture war politics or whatever. He's utterly vile for that. But I still think it doesn't come close to Johnson or Farage.
disagree on sunak, if the guy was a psychopath/sociopath/anti social personality he’d have been way, waaaaaay more of a success.
whereas truss was almost too much in the other direction. what i’m implying is, being a good ruler is being a sociopath but knowing how to moderate it.
>He absolutely wants people to make a fuss about this and the left shouldn't take the bait.
It is annoying how much of a constant balancing act it is. On one hand, reacting to it gives him too much attention. But also not reacting let's these kind of comments become normalised.
I would say he’s even more subtle than that. He skirts the acceptability so he can can row back - not to act like nothing has happened, but to point and say “look at how unfairly I’m being treated”. This garners him sympathy with people who may not like explicit racism but still have a “we’re too woke” attitude. Note how he immediately pointed out he had said something pro-immigrant immediately before. He was extremely careful to say this first to give him that retort.
It also helps allow him to push slightly further the boundaries of acceptability because then people become more cautious about calling him on it.
It is a standard tactic. Like when Sunak pretended to be shocked and offended when Starmer called him out for making trans jokes in front of Brianna Ghey’s mother.
It’s pure gaslighting.
That's spot on.
It's to trigger the reaction of "It's not what he meant, but he's right isn't he..."
That's also why he maintains such a tight grip on Reform. His UKIP days taught him what happens when those around him aren't disciplined about not crossing the line.
And he is very very good at it. How many other far right bellends have come and gone since this turd surfaced years ago, and very few are still knocking about. To not go too far or be out done is either very fortuitous (for him, certainly not us), or skillful on his part
He does that. He also had no problem getting the Asian community on the Brexit bandwagon by hinting their lack of connections to Europe. He plays both sides. One day, he'll be telling ethnic Asians they owe nothing to Europe, the next he'll be telling Europeans not to vote for other ethnicities.
You can see him switch in real time in that interview with James O'brien there is this tiny slip of the mask when he says to him, off the back of being asked what's so bad about living next to Romanians vs Germans, Farage states "oh you KNOW what the difference is".
He's just Anjem Choudhury for a certain sort of Brit...
Tells people what they want to hear, knows what he is doing, and just wants the attention and money - not actually doing anything for a "cause".
After the D Day fiasco, the Daily Mail comments section was full of very similar comments.
Farage knows who's he's talking to and what they think. That's why he keeps on surviving, he has the low cunning needed to be a populist.
I'm still unsure whether he wants the top job or not, he seems to enjoy being the outsider too much. I hope that's the case, he's the last thing we need.
He basically just wants to stay relevant as long as possible. He’s a grifter.
You ever wonder why he only became Reform party leader now? He was off running his scam in America with Trump supporters and the like.
Then his old ever-shapeshifting party started getting popular again and with a sudden snap election hide his eyes became dollar signs, he waited and probably negotiated a short while and then made his return.
If he does go for PM, it'll all fall apart quickly. The risk is whether he gets blamed or whether he goes full on deep state conspiracy theory and the media and a plurality of the population lap it up.
In fairness to Farage (a phrase I never thought I’d say) Rishi doesn’t understand, he is out of touch with the vast majority of the country due to his wealth and privilege. Not sure his race is relevant to this.
While Farage may spend most of his time in a relatively rich bubble, he does venture outside of it and is fully aware it is a bubble. Sunak's bubble is another level of rich, and he seems totally unaware that it is a bubble. He asked a homeless man whether he was in business, he genuinely has no idea what life is like outside his bubble. He's "let them eat cake" levels of detached.
See, I think this thinking is unfair
Sunak is terrible at politics and doesn't appear to be strategically inclined, but he's not stupid. His pre-politics life and success implies that he's actually quite intelligent. He's just a godawful politician
In his autobiography, Obama described David Cameron as having "the easy confidence of someone who'd never been pressed too hard by life", and I think that could sum up a lot of Conservative politicians over the last 14 years. From their expensive private schools, relatively easy entry into Oxbridge, ability to find post-uni jobs through their network of connections, and eventual entry into politics by being gifted a safe seat, they are used to things just working out for them.
This doesn't make them unintelligent (one can't spend two decades around so much high-qualiyy education without absorbing at least some of it) as much as intellectually incurious: the world always accommodates itself for them, so why worry tto much about it? This is compounded by the fact that when things (inevitably) finally go wrong for them (think Cameron after the referendum, Clegg after being voted out of parliament in 2015, Johnson after being forced to resign, and Sunak in a few weeks' time), they never really have to face any of the consequences, instead continuing to live lives of wealth and comfort the rest of us can only dream of. It leads to a complacent and arrogant attitude, where one never has to really consider the impact of what is happening.
I'd agree that he needed to go, although to do so while humming a jaunty tune did rather undermine any gravitas and underline the whole Bullingdon "someone else will clean up the mess" attitude.
I got the feeling that Cameron and Obama got on quite well on a personal level, even if they didn't always agree on political matters. But then I've always noticed that people from "the best" private schools are able to turn on the charm when required. And Dmitrii Medvedev also comes off pretty well in Obama's book, so make of that what you will...
I wouldn't call being good or bad at politics being good or bad at common sense. He managed to climb a very long greasy pole to the top knifing Javid on the way, he obviously has cunning in spades, he's just not good at electoral politics.
His pre-politics life and ~~success~~ **financial profiteering off the destabilisation of the banking system and misery of millions** implies that he's actually quite ~~intelligent~~ immoral.
FTFY
he is in dungeons and dragons terms- high(ish) intelligence, low wisdom.
This means he is book smart in some areas sure, completely lacks common sense and a grasp of the frameworks that he and those around him operate in. The d day thing is a perfect bit of evidence for that.
His lack of common sense also seems to result in him picking poor advisors
Any decent advisor should have told him that skipping out on a major D Day anniversary would look really fucking bad, but by all accounts they were saying it was fine or that the campaign was more important
It's like people with PHDs in stem fields who lack emotional intelligence or lack common sense. you can be remarkably intelligent in some areas and incredibly stupid in others.
Farage thinks climate change is a lie because we still get snow. I wouldn't give him too much credit beyond knowing how to get the attention of imbeciles.
Is he though? The one-time I recall seeing Farage go up against a competent and intelligent jouranlist, he got utterly humiliated and his spin doctor had to interrupt and drag him out of the room because he was being embarassed.
That's the one. Farage gets violated in that interview because the interviewer actually took some time to do basic research beforehand and went in with the intention of actually having Farage explain himself.
I think the fact you need to go back a decade to find one bad interview for a bloke who's on TV basically every day does reflect that he's better at the game than most politicians
I don't think he is. I'm referencing the O'brien interview because it is probably the hardest I've ever seen him spanked, but I don't think he has ever come across as intelligent almost any time I've seen him.
Farage benefits greatly from never having been a sitting MP and appealing to a very vocal, very stupid group of people.
Almost any time I see his views actually analysed or questioned, they fall apart quickly. He is a hollow idiot that gets wheeled out to push whatever populist agenda is being used as a scapegoat that week.
Sunak has no emotional intelligence and is stuck in his upper echelon world, but has business/STEM booksmarts. Farage deliberately steps outside of that upper echolon world (as he is from a not too dissimilar background) and has the emotional intelligence to work out populist policies and what riles people etc.
I disagree with that - though appreciate you're trying to look at it fairly and critically.
The phrase he used was, "doesn’t understand our history and our culture." That's got nothing to do with class or privilege. I'm sure Sunak is very aware of British history and culture having grown up here.
He is definitely out of touch and doesn't understand the struggles of everyday life, but the history/culture thing is different. Pretty sure Farage purposely chose that language to remind a certain demographic of Sunak's heritage.
> Rishi doesn’t understand, he is out of touch with the vast majority of the country due to his wealth and privilege.
True, but frankly I think it's generous to Farage to assume that's what he was really talking about and not trying to hint at cultural "difference" due to Sunak's background.
It works to appeal to both interpretations and I assume Farage intended that. My initial reaction was 'well he is, in an unbelievably rich white man sort of way', and thought that if anyone else had said it there wouldn't be a fuss, and then I realised Farage most likely realised this and could try backpedal to my initial interpretation when pressed about it.
> well he is, in an unbelievably rich white man sort of way'
It isn't just that. He's also rich in a very....mobile way. It's not like he owns some major rooted business or is a patrician landowner.
As the joke goes; he's going to be on a plane to California after the election. He has very "citizen of the world" (aka whichever part of it makes me pay less taxes or offers me more) vibe that even someone of the same background who owned a supermarket franchise or a car company wouldn't have.
Farage may be dogwhistling, but that's why he'll get away with it.
If I were born in China as a white Brit, and somehow rose to become the Premier of the country, do you think that if I skipped a hugely important national day of remembrance that lots of people wouldn't go 'maybe he doesn't get it in quite the same way as those with longer ties to our history'?
It's kind of a shitty point to make, but it's not ridiculous.
One of the reasons that argument doesn't hold water is because, like Farage himself said to try and defend himself, Commonwealth (then Empire) countries like the one Sunak's ancestors came from contributed and sacrificed a huge amount for the British war effort in WWI and II.
So to say he "doesn't get it because of his background" doesn't make any sense.
Saying he doesn't understand working and middle-class patriotic sentiments because of his wealth and privilege is different and probably true, but IMO we should be extremely careful to make that distinction.
> like the one Sunak's ancestors came from contributed and sacrificed a huge amount for the British war effort in WWI and II.
Yes, but Sunak didn't though. I think he himself is caught in a liminal world; not attached to those Commonwealth sacrifices since he's British (though, coming from one of those countries, many people don't care) but also not feeling the need to have some unalloyed good from the days of Empire to celebrate like some white Britons.
And, even worse , growing up in an elite environment that apparently never taught or cared about any of this (and, of course, not knowing anyone on the working class side to see why *they* care). If anything, that should be the scariest thing here: the richest, most influential people have apparently so lost any sort of unifying patriotism that Sunak apparently thought what he did was acceptable.
Is there a difference between knowing the importance with British expat parents vs having familial ties to events within living memory? That's not a rhetorical question
I don't think we should be emulating China or other countries with highly ethno-nationalist cultures on this. Realistically a lot *would* probably think like that, but it doesn't mean you *should*. If you were born a full citizen of a country and grew up within it anyone reasonable shouldn't question your cultural loyalty on the basis of ethnicity alone.
Hasn't Farage said this morning that "no English is spoken on the streets of Oldham"? Hinting at cultural differences is *always* what he's talking about.
That's debatable. Sunak's grandad was one of the highest ranking Tax officials in the Empire during colonial rule in Africa and he sat in the board of Inland Revenue when he migrated here and received an OBE.
His family has prestige, which you'd have to to marry into a billionaire upper caste bhramin family.
Farages dad was a multi-millionaire, but it seems "new money" at the time. Might be a toss up.
Exactly. All that's happened after 70 years of mass migration is people have come from other communities and simply slotted directly into the British class system at the same level. My City firm was ethnically diverse including myself but we had all been to the same type of private schools, the same universities, interned at the same firms.. Farage won't fix this inherent unfairness in the system anymore than the Tories would nor does he want to.
A couple of years ago I found a video on YouTube of farage in his youth and he sounded like JRM.
His accent and the way he speaks is put on and a character. I wish I could find the video now.
[Farage used to tell Jewish schoolmates that "Hitler was right." ](https://youtu.be/mfyiSk8Rjc8?si=Rc0yQEtDQVslEIdh)I don't care for Sunak, but I doubt he ever did that.
Sunak did say something along the lines of “I don’t have any working class friends” in a way that very much sounded like “and, yuck, I wouldn’t want any”. Absolutely that’s nothing like as bad as what Farage used to say - yet it’s hardly wholesome, either.
The Conservatives could use this video as a party political broadcast and the Reform problem would start to subside. But they won’t and you have to imagine it’s because some of them have similar skeletons in their closets.
I mean, it didn't show up on the Clarendon Commission, but that's only because it was a private school attached to some church institution iirc.
It's still a member of the Eton group and has got the same sort of status as Winchester even if it's only 450 years old rather than 650.
Is Nigel's wife worth £654 million and runs an investment company that only invests her own money, according to The Sunday Times? With her daddy being worth $4.5 billion according to Forbes.
Exceedingly wealthy Indians don’t let their daughters marry below their social status. Sunak’s familial prestige in the raj would have secured him the marriage. Indian classism is something we truly can’t fathom in the UK - it’s beyond Victorian.
Grifters often make you think they're of the people.
Farage is one of the most privileged people in British society from birth. Don't get fooled by his "man of the people" credentials.
Is that what Farage is saying though? There's a huge difference between saying Sunak is out of touch because he's ridiculously rich, and because he's of indian hertitage. I don't think we should give Farage the benefit of the doubt here.
Precisely, he's walking a knife-edge of not *quite* saying the racist thing out loud. Sunak is majorly out of touch and most people can see it - the D Day thing being an obvious own goal to 99% of everyone.
Farage is phrasing it so he has plausible deniability. You cant outright call him out like LK did, because he has enough wiggle room to deny but the underlying message is heard loud and clear by the type of people who already dont like that Sunak is brown.
On second consideration, no I don’t. Rishi doesn’t understand what it is like because he’s wealthy and privileged but I think I was being overly fair to Farage on first judgement.
Imagine being raised in India but having two white English parents, which effectively together forms an English household, your family is a well known member of the Anglo community out there, and then later you go on to marry an English wife.
You wouldn't undoubtedly feel less connected to India than if you had Indian parents
This is a very obvious racist dog whistle. The clue is in talking about “our” culture as though he’s not part of “us”.
If you honestly think that Farage means that he doesn’t understand “our” culture because he’s so wealthy and removed, ask yourself if you could imagine him talking about a white multi-millionaire like this.
It doesn’t matter. Anyone who has a problem with racism already wouldn’t have anything to do with Farage. He has done this sort of thing many times. People like to pretend criticism of him and his ilk is “calling anyone who wants limits on immigration racist” but that’s just a straw man. Farage is clearly xenophobic and racist, always has been, and those are the *reasons* for his political positions. It doesn’t matter if there are reasonable reasons to hold similar positions, *his* reasons are not those. So anyone on his bandwagon has already priced in that racism and xenophobia are either okay or view them as acceptable *if* you get something you want out of going along with them (which I would argue is a distinction without a difference, but hey ho).
Unfortunately the discussion of immigration has been completely hijacked by right-wingers. I would like to see centre politicians advocate for an Australia style points system, or similar, to address the suppression of wages in unskilled roles that has lead to to many supporting the likes of Reform, while continuing to address the shortages we have in the NHS etc. Laying out an immigration policy like that would immediately counter the open door or uncontrolled talking points and hopefully move the discourse towards the fiscal rather than the emotive.
Tbf I've said this before about Sunak in that he comes from such an elite class that he is so out of touch with our culture, way more so than any other politician. The Billionaire class is basically cultureless and treats the country they live in as an economic zone, and sees people as consumers. Sunak's culture, or lack thereof has nothing to do with his ethnicity.
The racist man everyone on here claims isn't, but every racist idolises.
He knows what he's doing. Has had years to practice not getting caught, since his boarding school days.
>The racist man everyone on here claims isn't, but every racist idolises.
[Simpsons did it first](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2010/11/30/arts/simpsons/simpsons-articleLarge.jpg?year=2010&h=294&w=600&s=bedc8f2a254d4ea58a321dd154a44c1f5a047ae78e77fcf407f8f729ea3cd021&k=ZQJBKqZ0VN&tw=1)
By all accounts he was a lot more overt during his school days. There are first hand stories of him outright telling a Jewish student that ‘Hitler was right’ and ‘gas them all’. Also that him and his mates would march about singing hitler youth songs. I don’t believe for a second that he’s had some kind of damascene conversion since then, and his behaviour and language do nothing to change that belief.
He’s the worst kind of demagogue - one with the ability to engage people with sophistry and bluster while appearing genuine. I have no doubt that were he to ever actually get some power it would lead to some very unpleasant things.
Most people are capable of separating their views of international political unions from who they're attracted to.
Those who can't are confused by normal people.
Does this matter? This has happened before, last week it was Muslim culture.
Farage is more than a little bit racist. A subtle and clever one, but it is a given. It is the brand at this point.
If you are voting Farage and Reform then you’re already turning a blind eye to the racism and bigotry.
This won’t effect the polls. If this was Starmer it would be a 5 point dip, Farage, he’ll probably go up a point.
Doesn’t really sound like he was “left squirming” at all. Did huffington post watch [the same video](https://x.com/BBCPolitics/status/1799722162284023879/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1799722162284023879¤tTweetUser=BBCPolitics)?
He was using the hammer as per the instructors advice: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/24/sideways-use-of-a-hammer-earns-rishi-sunak-social-media-mockery
The credit card thing is more of an issue.
Is he wrong though?
Rishi is a fucking imbecile who clearly doesn't understand British culture and would rather be chilling back 'home' in his Santa Monica beach house.
If he did have any understanding he wouldn't have left the D-Day event to go campaign. He would have known that the event itself was the best PR opportunity he was going to get before the election.
Is it wrong to say that Sunak doesn’t understand “our” culture?
Not only did he fail to notice how bad an idea bailing on D Day was, but he has surrounded himself with a bubble of out of touch advisors who failed to notice.
Now whether that’s because if his immigrant background, his billionaire status, or because he’s a lizard in human skin is up debate, but it’s clear Rishi doesn’t share anything culturally with the average Brit.
Farage is right. It is hard to relate to the rest of us if you’re a rich public school educated financier like Sunak. Or… (checks notes)… Nigel Farage.
It’s quite obvious Sunak doesn’t understand UK culture, nobody who did could possible make so many ridiculous errors. The latest one regarding D-day is so obvious it almost seems like it must have been deliberate.
I watched the interview this morning and Farage raised several interesting policy points, answered every question put to him very well and batted away LK’s aggressive pro-Tory attitude perfectly.
She literally had nothing to say about any of the actual points he made and immediately started trying to accuse him of being racist.
Even the Tory MP she interviewed after Farage obviously didn’t want to be involved.
The BBC just can’t stand the fact that Farage is not bothered by their aggressive attempts to smear him.
Love him or loathe him you cannot deny that the media really doesn’t understand how to deal with someone like him without just shouting ‘racist’
Whilst I may be coming at it from a different angle I do think the culture that Sunak grew up/came from will have had an influence. Over here the war in the east, even at the time, was often forgotten vs the european war. I’d imagine to those from Asia they’ve got much more of an awareness of the war in the east and D-Day won’t have that same resonance.
The stupid thing Sunak did was going away for an interview that won’t even be broadcast straight away. Irrelevant of him understanding how big D-Day is culturally it was daft.
https://youtu.be/ogfVnmhjw9o
Here he is yesterday saying basically the same thing.. doesnt sound race baiting at all.. seems like BBC is doing the race baiting.
https://youtu.be/64kn-G82YPE - full context today.
Something ironic about privately educated, apparently like to wind up teachers by pretending to be fascist, city broker , millions on EU expense account, provided with London luxury flat , car and chauffeur by multimillionaire ….. ‘man of the people’ Farage calling someone else out of touch because of privilege even if correct.
>privately educated city broker calling someone out of touch
Ah, the "blue collar millionaire" cliche. He appears dumb as Hell, '*but hard work and modest living*' made him glamorous overnight. Very sexy and "real."
I'm so tired of the political tactic of taking something someone said that could be interpreted ambiguously and stating they only meant the worst possible interpretation.
Unless you spend five minutes pre-qualifying every statement you make, some things you say will sound ambiguous its a natural trait of language.
Yes, occasionally some people do "dog whistle" but this hyper obsession with secret encoded messages that only the most paranoid of journalist can detect, and weirdly enough only when talking about people they don't like, is just exhausting.
I'm sure if we took any public figure and sifted through their statements we could find "dog whistles" for just about any political ideology known to man.
It's political motivated verbal pareidolia.
Do you think the same about Donald trump (struck by a great deal of unluckily appearing to be dog whistling), and how do you reconcile Nigel’s desire to be seen as close friends with him
Coz Nigel doesn't have a previous track record of dog whistling now does he?
Motherfucker was terrified of having a Romanian neighbour I seem to recall....
You'd have to be very naive (or in denial) to not look at the context and who was saying it and realise it was a blatant dog whistle. It didn't take a paranoid journalist to detect it, I understood it the second I heard it. It's plausible deniability while getting his message across to those who agree with him.
Multiculturalism is great and we should celebrate it, but also, everyone in the UK shares exactly the same culture, and to suggest someone doesn't is clearly racist.
Culture is the glue that binds a nation together. "multiculturalism" + "mass immigration" leads to balkanisation as soon as people start splitting down cultural lines. This is the most idiotic and naive stance that progressives have 🤦♂️.
I hate Farage, but watching the interview i kinda felt like he was more talking about Rishi as a wealthy privileged guy not getting our culture then Kuenssberg smelt blood and led the questioning in such a way to make it sound like he was subtly trying to make a point about his immigrant routs.
This is the ludicrous part. Farage is part of the exact same group of wealthy financiers. I can’t quite believe his cosplaying has anyone fooled but obviously his BS is quite effective.
There's a vast gap between Farage and Sunak. Farage is new money low-tier city money - solidly middle class but not ridiculous. Sunak is basically a billionaire with global elite connections. Really not the same
ohhh of course he is but doesn't mean he cant point out others being the same.
In the context of the interview it really didn't sound to me like he was making claims about the PMs heritage but Kuenssberg then led the questioning and tried to make it about that.
Don't get wrong, I do believe Farage is a racist turd its just that on this occasion i think the BBC where just trying desperately to get a sound bite for a headline
Kuensberg making typical BBC mischief.
Farage was not "hit by race row".
Sunak plainly did not understand the cultural issues by pulling out of D day so early, how offensive it was, even how tactically wrong it was, for him.
That is why he has apologised.
Does it really matter? The Tories are going to be slaughtered in the election anyway. They will then quickly get rid of Sunak or he will resign within a month of losing. Soon after he will probably go back to California. Why would he and his wife stay here just to pay millions more in tax?
To be fair I don’t think he was talking about race. More about being in touch with people in the country who really care about our shared history. My dad (a Mail reading die-hard Tory) has been a super fan of Rishi since Covid - he’s met him and raved about him and everything, it’s really unbearable honestly - but even he drew the line at the PM skipping the D Day commemorations and said he’s blown it. People from all parts of the country were rightly angry that the leader who is supposed to represent us at a major international event seemingly didn’t understand its importance and couldn’t be bothered to stay around for it.
"Hoping"
Says a lot, if everyone would just bury their head in the sand and stopped noticing things then things might get better! Islamic extremism doesn't care about your "hope".
To be completely honest, I am with Farage on this, which is very rare. He was making the point that Sunak is so wealthy, privileged, and separated from the average Brit that he doesn’t understand British culture for normal people. I’m sure he’s well versed in hunting or whatever.
IMO this has nothing to do with race, and is a valid point about how out of touch Sunak is.
I'm of the opinion it's calculated to people can hear what they want in it, it's certainly readable in the way you suggest, but the racists will be reading it another way and Farage is knowledgeable enough to know that. It's like when he bangs on about British values or delivering justice for the British people without ever expanding on what those things actually are, It allows less sceptical people to imprint their own meaning. If he was actually pushed to define what British values are beyond vague platitudes like "freedom" and "a fair shake" he knows he people quickly would discover that though we are all British and all have values they may not all align so well.
That doesn't track, there are lots of wealthy British people, we don't say they (for instance the King) do not understand British culture. In fact lots of the aristocracy are seen as gatekeepers of culture.
He knew what he was doing. His defenders will defend, he attackers will attack and lots that feel uncomfortable confronting this type of thing will try to find reasons not to.
I agree with you. No PM in touch with the people would have left the D-Day events early. I noticed years ago that when he talked about the problems facing people he often used the word "they".
"I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper class, I have friends who are working-class...well, not working class."
I'm sure we all know who said this given its popularity just in the last few years, but I wouldn't blame anyone for confusing it for Farage, with the caveat being that farage is better at avoiding such gaffes.
>He was making the point that Sunak is so wealthy, privileged, and separated from the average Brit that he doesn’t understand British culture for normal people
I sincerely doubt that considering this criticism can also be applied to Farage.
And it didn't take long did it? Another bit of racism from Farage, this is why I ignore everything he says, his politics are all about being a racist prick.
Snapshot of _Nigel Farage hit by race row over claim Rishi Sunak “doesn't understand our culture” | Laura Kuenssberg said he was “trying not very subtly to emphasise the prime minister's immigrant heritage”_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-on-the-rack-over-claim-rishi-sunak-doesnt-understand-our-culture_uk_666565a5e4b020eec9acb550) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-on-the-rack-over-claim-rishi-sunak-doesnt-understand-our-culture_uk_666565a5e4b020eec9acb550) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think the Labour interviewee got this spot on. Farage has form for this, he is an expert at fishing around on the boundary of what is acceptable, then drawing back and acting as if nothing has happened. He baits those who want to call him a racist into over-the-top reactions while also appealing to the hard right with the dog-whistle style phrasing. He absolutely wants people to make a fuss about this and the left shouldn't take the bait.
Its called the motte and Bailey
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy "motte-and-bailey fallacy (named after the motte-and-bailey castle) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy where an arguer conflates two positions that share similarities, one modest and easy to defend (the "motte") and one much more controversial and harder to defend (the "bailey").[1] The arguer advances the controversial position, but when challenged, insists that only the more modest position is being advanced." Thank you for the introduction to this fallacy. Farage, for all his faults and obnoxious nature is a master of this particular tactic. When Farage says Sunak 'doesn't understand our culture' he invites right wing xenophobes to interpret this as being because Sunak is of Indian heritage. However, he can easily defend the claim by those who disagree with the common thread of 'othering' and distrust of foreigners that runs through Farage's many many public statements. Clever particularly since, apart from racial heritage, Farage and Sunak have a lot of similarities in terms of education and employment in the financial sector prior to politics.
I'd never heard of this before, thanks!
He's a very slippery switched on operator, when I saw his TV show I was a bit taken aback on how good and natural he is as a TV presenter. He's probably better than a lot of people who do that for a living. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him but the reality is he can run rings around people in a debate.
That he is. He has been around a long time and had more TV time than just about any politician out there. And yes he does do this for a living. He can attack constantly and hard to hit as he doesn't have any real policies to scrutinise.
The fact that he said whilst on I'm A Celeb that he wanted to do the trials because it equates to 25% of the airtime tells you everything you need to know really
Fits the description Alistair Campbell gave recently - Farage is utterly obsessed with media
Yeh, he wants to be seen. Notice though who he surrounds himself with and his backers are very not that jolly. https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/whos-the-aristocratic-convicted-fraudster-at-nigel-farages-side-mg7hp0l5c#:~:text=George%20Cottrell%2C%2030%2C%20is%20an,the%20King%20in%20the%201970s Or his other friend https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/16/arron-banks-allegedly-gave-450000-funding-to-nigel-farage-after-brexit-vote
Reminds me of arguing with my ex.
Pmsl. Yeh that spot on.
You know her too? I'm sorry.
No. But I think she must be the long lost separated at birth clone of my recent X
I also choose this guy’s ex
He also did radio for years too.
I mean we've watched Farage on our screens now for almost two decades. How he always unravels and becomes tetchy is by getting him to focus on the detail of what he's proposing, and the economics. The other obvious one is he's blamed NATO for provoking Putin and causing the Ukrainian war. **Alot of his views on foreign policy line up perfectly with Tankies who hate the West.** He's espoused pro Kremlin propaganda his entire career, if Journos wanted to end him they could. If Mordant wanted to end him or question his credibility in defence in the debate, she could have.
I wish more people combated him in this way. People get too emotional debating him. And then you play into his hands.
I'd be very interested to see Farage and Starmer in a debate, given the latter has decades of legal experience to draw on as well has handling the hard-left side of his own party.
It'd be an interesting one because starmer has clearly been advised and coached to try and not say anything outrageous ahead of the election so would probably hold back, but at the same time the left and centre both fucking hate farage with good reason so there minimal risk of losing votes.
It's precisely because the Tories and Reform are both insane that Labour need to appear sane and level-headed. There's nothing they would like better than for Labour to join them in the race to the bottom of the insanity barrel.
I wouldn't. It would just be Farage speaking over Starmer whenever says something vaguely damaging to him and refusing to go into details with big emotive hand waving statements.
This is what people said about the Starmer/Sunak debate and the devastating lawyerly takedown absolutely did not materialise
True. But that's because any lawyer who behaved like Sunak would have been chucked out of the court room. How do you counter a shout liar where each topic is covered so quickly?
I’m convinced he’s a sociopath, and a very charismatic one at that, unfortunately
Many senior politicians are. Johnson absolutely is, Truss, Sunak probably too. No sense of responsibility, just their own amazingness.
While I heartily dislike Sunak, I'm pretty certain he is **not** a sociopath, otherwise he wouldn't be so awkward and tetchy.
Sunak is a privileged and fairly self centred idiot who is out of his depth. If not for him stumbling into power, the worst you'd probably say about him is that he's a tosser. Farage and Johnson are repugnant on another level. Much more calculating, callous, duplicitous, disloyal, self serving, and unashamedly racist. I don't know about truss. She just seems delusional more than anything else. Edit: I'm probably being a little too generous to Sunak. He was perfectly happy to throw vulnerable people under the bus in service of culture war politics or whatever. He's utterly vile for that. But I still think it doesn't come close to Johnson or Farage.
disagree on sunak, if the guy was a psychopath/sociopath/anti social personality he’d have been way, waaaaaay more of a success. whereas truss was almost too much in the other direction. what i’m implying is, being a good ruler is being a sociopath but knowing how to moderate it.
Why isn’t he a laughing stock like Truss ? His ‘policies’ have arguably caused more loss than hers.
He's never been in office when things have gone badly so has never been forced to own it.
>He absolutely wants people to make a fuss about this and the left shouldn't take the bait. It is annoying how much of a constant balancing act it is. On one hand, reacting to it gives him too much attention. But also not reacting let's these kind of comments become normalised.
I would say he’s even more subtle than that. He skirts the acceptability so he can can row back - not to act like nothing has happened, but to point and say “look at how unfairly I’m being treated”. This garners him sympathy with people who may not like explicit racism but still have a “we’re too woke” attitude. Note how he immediately pointed out he had said something pro-immigrant immediately before. He was extremely careful to say this first to give him that retort. It also helps allow him to push slightly further the boundaries of acceptability because then people become more cautious about calling him on it.
You're 100%. The best way to combat this is rather than cause a big controversy is just ask what did he mean? Fight a question with a question.
It is a standard tactic. Like when Sunak pretended to be shocked and offended when Starmer called him out for making trans jokes in front of Brianna Ghey’s mother. It’s pure gaslighting.
That's spot on. It's to trigger the reaction of "It's not what he meant, but he's right isn't he..." That's also why he maintains such a tight grip on Reform. His UKIP days taught him what happens when those around him aren't disciplined about not crossing the line.
And he is very very good at it. How many other far right bellends have come and gone since this turd surfaced years ago, and very few are still knocking about. To not go too far or be out done is either very fortuitous (for him, certainly not us), or skillful on his part
He does that. He also had no problem getting the Asian community on the Brexit bandwagon by hinting their lack of connections to Europe. He plays both sides. One day, he'll be telling ethnic Asians they owe nothing to Europe, the next he'll be telling Europeans not to vote for other ethnicities.
Like most far right speakers today. People who like him will say it's fine and everyone else will see it for what it is.
You can see him switch in real time in that interview with James O'brien there is this tiny slip of the mask when he says to him, off the back of being asked what's so bad about living next to Romanians vs Germans, Farage states "oh you KNOW what the difference is".
He's just Anjem Choudhury for a certain sort of Brit... Tells people what they want to hear, knows what he is doing, and just wants the attention and money - not actually doing anything for a "cause".
After the D Day fiasco, the Daily Mail comments section was full of very similar comments. Farage knows who's he's talking to and what they think. That's why he keeps on surviving, he has the low cunning needed to be a populist. I'm still unsure whether he wants the top job or not, he seems to enjoy being the outsider too much. I hope that's the case, he's the last thing we need.
He basically just wants to stay relevant as long as possible. He’s a grifter. You ever wonder why he only became Reform party leader now? He was off running his scam in America with Trump supporters and the like. Then his old ever-shapeshifting party started getting popular again and with a sudden snap election hide his eyes became dollar signs, he waited and probably negotiated a short while and then made his return.
No chance he goes for PM, he’ll actually have to work then instead of just going on tv and speaking in veiled racism
If he does go for PM, it'll all fall apart quickly. The risk is whether he gets blamed or whether he goes full on deep state conspiracy theory and the media and a plurality of the population lap it up.
In fairness to Farage (a phrase I never thought I’d say) Rishi doesn’t understand, he is out of touch with the vast majority of the country due to his wealth and privilege. Not sure his race is relevant to this.
I think you’re right - but it’s not like Farage comes from an everyday background either.
While Farage may spend most of his time in a relatively rich bubble, he does venture outside of it and is fully aware it is a bubble. Sunak's bubble is another level of rich, and he seems totally unaware that it is a bubble. He asked a homeless man whether he was in business, he genuinely has no idea what life is like outside his bubble. He's "let them eat cake" levels of detached.
True, but Sunak is just a stupid person on top of it. Farage is a very intelligent guy, unfortunately lol
See, I think this thinking is unfair Sunak is terrible at politics and doesn't appear to be strategically inclined, but he's not stupid. His pre-politics life and success implies that he's actually quite intelligent. He's just a godawful politician
In his autobiography, Obama described David Cameron as having "the easy confidence of someone who'd never been pressed too hard by life", and I think that could sum up a lot of Conservative politicians over the last 14 years. From their expensive private schools, relatively easy entry into Oxbridge, ability to find post-uni jobs through their network of connections, and eventual entry into politics by being gifted a safe seat, they are used to things just working out for them. This doesn't make them unintelligent (one can't spend two decades around so much high-qualiyy education without absorbing at least some of it) as much as intellectually incurious: the world always accommodates itself for them, so why worry tto much about it? This is compounded by the fact that when things (inevitably) finally go wrong for them (think Cameron after the referendum, Clegg after being voted out of parliament in 2015, Johnson after being forced to resign, and Sunak in a few weeks' time), they never really have to face any of the consequences, instead continuing to live lives of wealth and comfort the rest of us can only dream of. It leads to a complacent and arrogant attitude, where one never has to really consider the impact of what is happening.
[удалено]
I'd agree that he needed to go, although to do so while humming a jaunty tune did rather undermine any gravitas and underline the whole Bullingdon "someone else will clean up the mess" attitude. I got the feeling that Cameron and Obama got on quite well on a personal level, even if they didn't always agree on political matters. But then I've always noticed that people from "the best" private schools are able to turn on the charm when required. And Dmitrii Medvedev also comes off pretty well in Obama's book, so make of that what you will...
Classic case of an intelligent person lacking common sense.
Yeah, exactly
I wouldn't call being good or bad at politics being good or bad at common sense. He managed to climb a very long greasy pole to the top knifing Javid on the way, he obviously has cunning in spades, he's just not good at electoral politics.
He cant be a good politician because he lacks the empathy to understand how people will react to his stupid decisions.
His pre-politics life and ~~success~~ **financial profiteering off the destabilisation of the banking system and misery of millions** implies that he's actually quite ~~intelligent~~ immoral. FTFY
he is in dungeons and dragons terms- high(ish) intelligence, low wisdom. This means he is book smart in some areas sure, completely lacks common sense and a grasp of the frameworks that he and those around him operate in. The d day thing is a perfect bit of evidence for that.
His lack of common sense also seems to result in him picking poor advisors Any decent advisor should have told him that skipping out on a major D Day anniversary would look really fucking bad, but by all accounts they were saying it was fine or that the campaign was more important
He got his Grade 5, but he doesn’t have the street smarts of a Ricky or Bubbles from TPB.
It's like people with PHDs in stem fields who lack emotional intelligence or lack common sense. you can be remarkably intelligent in some areas and incredibly stupid in others.
Farage thinks climate change is a lie because we still get snow. I wouldn't give him too much credit beyond knowing how to get the attention of imbeciles.
Is he though? The one-time I recall seeing Farage go up against a competent and intelligent jouranlist, he got utterly humiliated and his spin doctor had to interrupt and drag him out of the room because he was being embarassed.
James O'Brien?
That's the one. Farage gets violated in that interview because the interviewer actually took some time to do basic research beforehand and went in with the intention of actually having Farage explain himself.
I think the fact you need to go back a decade to find one bad interview for a bloke who's on TV basically every day does reflect that he's better at the game than most politicians
I don't think he is. I'm referencing the O'brien interview because it is probably the hardest I've ever seen him spanked, but I don't think he has ever come across as intelligent almost any time I've seen him. Farage benefits greatly from never having been a sitting MP and appealing to a very vocal, very stupid group of people. Almost any time I see his views actually analysed or questioned, they fall apart quickly. He is a hollow idiot that gets wheeled out to push whatever populist agenda is being used as a scapegoat that week.
Sunak has no emotional intelligence and is stuck in his upper echelon world, but has business/STEM booksmarts. Farage deliberately steps outside of that upper echolon world (as he is from a not too dissimilar background) and has the emotional intelligence to work out populist policies and what riles people etc.
Yeah true
I disagree with that - though appreciate you're trying to look at it fairly and critically. The phrase he used was, "doesn’t understand our history and our culture." That's got nothing to do with class or privilege. I'm sure Sunak is very aware of British history and culture having grown up here. He is definitely out of touch and doesn't understand the struggles of everyday life, but the history/culture thing is different. Pretty sure Farage purposely chose that language to remind a certain demographic of Sunak's heritage.
We are at least 10 years past “in fairness to Farage”.
I think you are being overly fair to Farage here. It's a deniable dog whistle. The Farage stock and trade.
On further thought, you are probably right.
> Rishi doesn’t understand, he is out of touch with the vast majority of the country due to his wealth and privilege. True, but frankly I think it's generous to Farage to assume that's what he was really talking about and not trying to hint at cultural "difference" due to Sunak's background.
It works to appeal to both interpretations and I assume Farage intended that. My initial reaction was 'well he is, in an unbelievably rich white man sort of way', and thought that if anyone else had said it there wouldn't be a fuss, and then I realised Farage most likely realised this and could try backpedal to my initial interpretation when pressed about it.
> well he is, in an unbelievably rich white man sort of way' It isn't just that. He's also rich in a very....mobile way. It's not like he owns some major rooted business or is a patrician landowner. As the joke goes; he's going to be on a plane to California after the election. He has very "citizen of the world" (aka whichever part of it makes me pay less taxes or offers me more) vibe that even someone of the same background who owned a supermarket franchise or a car company wouldn't have. Farage may be dogwhistling, but that's why he'll get away with it.
If I were born in China as a white Brit, and somehow rose to become the Premier of the country, do you think that if I skipped a hugely important national day of remembrance that lots of people wouldn't go 'maybe he doesn't get it in quite the same way as those with longer ties to our history'? It's kind of a shitty point to make, but it's not ridiculous.
One of the reasons that argument doesn't hold water is because, like Farage himself said to try and defend himself, Commonwealth (then Empire) countries like the one Sunak's ancestors came from contributed and sacrificed a huge amount for the British war effort in WWI and II. So to say he "doesn't get it because of his background" doesn't make any sense. Saying he doesn't understand working and middle-class patriotic sentiments because of his wealth and privilege is different and probably true, but IMO we should be extremely careful to make that distinction.
> like the one Sunak's ancestors came from contributed and sacrificed a huge amount for the British war effort in WWI and II. Yes, but Sunak didn't though. I think he himself is caught in a liminal world; not attached to those Commonwealth sacrifices since he's British (though, coming from one of those countries, many people don't care) but also not feeling the need to have some unalloyed good from the days of Empire to celebrate like some white Britons. And, even worse , growing up in an elite environment that apparently never taught or cared about any of this (and, of course, not knowing anyone on the working class side to see why *they* care). If anything, that should be the scariest thing here: the richest, most influential people have apparently so lost any sort of unifying patriotism that Sunak apparently thought what he did was acceptable.
I think if you were born in China you'd know the importance of any national days having grown up with them. This is a ridiculous point to make.
Is there a difference between knowing the importance with British expat parents vs having familial ties to events within living memory? That's not a rhetorical question
I don't think we should be emulating China or other countries with highly ethno-nationalist cultures on this. Realistically a lot *would* probably think like that, but it doesn't mean you *should*. If you were born a full citizen of a country and grew up within it anyone reasonable shouldn't question your cultural loyalty on the basis of ethnicity alone.
But in that situation it wouldn't be ethnicity alone it would be prompted by the snubbing of events important to that culture.
Honestly, that's a fair take too. I'm just saying that I see both sides on this question.
Sunak wasn’t born in the uk as a brown Indian, he’s been British from day 1 but wtv.
That’s fair.
Hasn't Farage said this morning that "no English is spoken on the streets of Oldham"? Hinting at cultural differences is *always* what he's talking about.
'On some streets' - which is just true
Which is pretty much true
He is not wrong on that though We do have clusters of communities which don’t engage with the wider population and get up to all sorts of shit
But he specifically said "culture". If he was talking about wealth and privilege, then he really doesn't have a leg to stand on, does he?
Farage comes from more a more privileged background than Sunak
That's debatable. Sunak's grandad was one of the highest ranking Tax officials in the Empire during colonial rule in Africa and he sat in the board of Inland Revenue when he migrated here and received an OBE. His family has prestige, which you'd have to to marry into a billionaire upper caste bhramin family. Farages dad was a multi-millionaire, but it seems "new money" at the time. Might be a toss up.
Exactly. All that's happened after 70 years of mass migration is people have come from other communities and simply slotted directly into the British class system at the same level. My City firm was ethnically diverse including myself but we had all been to the same type of private schools, the same universities, interned at the same firms.. Farage won't fix this inherent unfairness in the system anymore than the Tories would nor does he want to.
They are both public boys, I don't think there is much difference
A couple of years ago I found a video on YouTube of farage in his youth and he sounded like JRM. His accent and the way he speaks is put on and a character. I wish I could find the video now.
I mean, he breaks into his standard absurdly posh accent enough as it stands lol
[Farage used to tell Jewish schoolmates that "Hitler was right." ](https://youtu.be/mfyiSk8Rjc8?si=Rc0yQEtDQVslEIdh)I don't care for Sunak, but I doubt he ever did that.
OK but we are talking about how privileged they are not how right wing/edgy they are
Sunak did say something along the lines of “I don’t have any working class friends” in a way that very much sounded like “and, yuck, I wouldn’t want any”. Absolutely that’s nothing like as bad as what Farage used to say - yet it’s hardly wholesome, either.
The Conservatives could use this video as a party political broadcast and the Reform problem would start to subside. But they won’t and you have to imagine it’s because some of them have similar skeletons in their closets.
Gonna be a massive pedant and say Dulwich isn't normally considered a public school
I mean, it didn't show up on the Clarendon Commission, but that's only because it was a private school attached to some church institution iirc. It's still a member of the Eton group and has got the same sort of status as Winchester even if it's only 450 years old rather than 650.
Is Nigel's wife worth £654 million and runs an investment company that only invests her own money, according to The Sunday Times? With her daddy being worth $4.5 billion according to Forbes.
Well, he wasn't born married to her mate, so what relevance is it to the point that Farage *comes from* a posher background.
Exceedingly wealthy Indians don’t let their daughters marry below their social status. Sunak’s familial prestige in the raj would have secured him the marriage. Indian classism is something we truly can’t fathom in the UK - it’s beyond Victorian.
Grifters often make you think they're of the people. Farage is one of the most privileged people in British society from birth. Don't get fooled by his "man of the people" credentials.
He, more than Johnson, is Britain's Trump.
Farage has wealth and privilege.
And a German wife
Is that what Farage is saying though? There's a huge difference between saying Sunak is out of touch because he's ridiculously rich, and because he's of indian hertitage. I don't think we should give Farage the benefit of the doubt here.
He's absolutely abusing this ambiguity deliberately, to appeal to both racists and anti-elitists whilst generating as much media attention as he can.
Precisely, he's walking a knife-edge of not *quite* saying the racist thing out loud. Sunak is majorly out of touch and most people can see it - the D Day thing being an obvious own goal to 99% of everyone. Farage is phrasing it so he has plausible deniability. You cant outright call him out like LK did, because he has enough wiggle room to deny but the underlying message is heard loud and clear by the type of people who already dont like that Sunak is brown.
Culture has more meanings than just ethnicity.
They're both city bankers, if there is any merit to this school of thought, then Farage is similarly out of touch.
Rishi is out of touch, but Farage is a fascist toad and knows exactly what he's doing.
You think Farage's point is that people from a wealthy background don't understand the public? Lol, ok. None so blind as those who will not see.
On second consideration, no I don’t. Rishi doesn’t understand what it is like because he’s wealthy and privileged but I think I was being overly fair to Farage on first judgement.
Imagine being raised in India but having two white English parents, which effectively together forms an English household, your family is a well known member of the Anglo community out there, and then later you go on to marry an English wife. You wouldn't undoubtedly feel less connected to India than if you had Indian parents
Not the first time Farage has shown he has at the very least some bigoted views, the Romanian neighbours comments were another example.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
This is a very obvious racist dog whistle. The clue is in talking about “our” culture as though he’s not part of “us”. If you honestly think that Farage means that he doesn’t understand “our” culture because he’s so wealthy and removed, ask yourself if you could imagine him talking about a white multi-millionaire like this.
Yeah, I can't see him saying Richard Tice doesn't understand our culture...
It doesn’t matter. Anyone who has a problem with racism already wouldn’t have anything to do with Farage. He has done this sort of thing many times. People like to pretend criticism of him and his ilk is “calling anyone who wants limits on immigration racist” but that’s just a straw man. Farage is clearly xenophobic and racist, always has been, and those are the *reasons* for his political positions. It doesn’t matter if there are reasonable reasons to hold similar positions, *his* reasons are not those. So anyone on his bandwagon has already priced in that racism and xenophobia are either okay or view them as acceptable *if* you get something you want out of going along with them (which I would argue is a distinction without a difference, but hey ho).
Unfortunately the discussion of immigration has been completely hijacked by right-wingers. I would like to see centre politicians advocate for an Australia style points system, or similar, to address the suppression of wages in unskilled roles that has lead to to many supporting the likes of Reform, while continuing to address the shortages we have in the NHS etc. Laying out an immigration policy like that would immediately counter the open door or uncontrolled talking points and hopefully move the discourse towards the fiscal rather than the emotive.
Tbf I've said this before about Sunak in that he comes from such an elite class that he is so out of touch with our culture, way more so than any other politician. The Billionaire class is basically cultureless and treats the country they live in as an economic zone, and sees people as consumers. Sunak's culture, or lack thereof has nothing to do with his ethnicity.
Anyone else would say something like "he's out of touch with the common man". I think it's crystal clear he's referring to race
The racist man everyone on here claims isn't, but every racist idolises. He knows what he's doing. Has had years to practice not getting caught, since his boarding school days.
>The racist man everyone on here claims isn't, but every racist idolises. [Simpsons did it first](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2010/11/30/arts/simpsons/simpsons-articleLarge.jpg?year=2010&h=294&w=600&s=bedc8f2a254d4ea58a321dd154a44c1f5a047ae78e77fcf407f8f729ea3cd021&k=ZQJBKqZ0VN&tw=1)
By all accounts he was a lot more overt during his school days. There are first hand stories of him outright telling a Jewish student that ‘Hitler was right’ and ‘gas them all’. Also that him and his mates would march about singing hitler youth songs. I don’t believe for a second that he’s had some kind of damascene conversion since then, and his behaviour and language do nothing to change that belief. He’s the worst kind of demagogue - one with the ability to engage people with sophistry and bluster while appearing genuine. I have no doubt that were he to ever actually get some power it would lead to some very unpleasant things.
He also hates the EU but was happy to marry a German, giving his children access to it ? How’s does the UK not see right through that clown of a man.
Why would hating the EU preclude you marrying a European ?
You can like Europe but hate the EU
Not in the minds of the pro-EU lot apparently.
Most people are capable of separating their views of international political unions from who they're attracted to. Those who can't are confused by normal people.
Not the first time he's used that sort of dog whistle this election and it won't be the last.
Does this matter? This has happened before, last week it was Muslim culture. Farage is more than a little bit racist. A subtle and clever one, but it is a given. It is the brand at this point. If you are voting Farage and Reform then you’re already turning a blind eye to the racism and bigotry. This won’t effect the polls. If this was Starmer it would be a 5 point dip, Farage, he’ll probably go up a point.
Doesn’t really sound like he was “left squirming” at all. Did huffington post watch [the same video](https://x.com/BBCPolitics/status/1799722162284023879/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1799722162284023879¤tTweetUser=BBCPolitics)?
Explain to me, a working class builder, how the billionaire who cant use a hammer or a debit card understands my culture
He was using the hammer as per the instructors advice: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/24/sideways-use-of-a-hammer-earns-rishi-sunak-social-media-mockery The credit card thing is more of an issue.
But Nigel Farage does? Or Boris Johnson? Or David Cameron? These people are all posh and come from plenty of privilege.
I agree with all of that
Is he wrong though? Rishi is a fucking imbecile who clearly doesn't understand British culture and would rather be chilling back 'home' in his Santa Monica beach house. If he did have any understanding he wouldn't have left the D-Day event to go campaign. He would have known that the event itself was the best PR opportunity he was going to get before the election.
Is it wrong to say that Sunak doesn’t understand “our” culture? Not only did he fail to notice how bad an idea bailing on D Day was, but he has surrounded himself with a bubble of out of touch advisors who failed to notice. Now whether that’s because if his immigrant background, his billionaire status, or because he’s a lizard in human skin is up debate, but it’s clear Rishi doesn’t share anything culturally with the average Brit.
Farage is right. It is hard to relate to the rest of us if you’re a rich public school educated financier like Sunak. Or… (checks notes)… Nigel Farage.
It’s quite obvious Sunak doesn’t understand UK culture, nobody who did could possible make so many ridiculous errors. The latest one regarding D-day is so obvious it almost seems like it must have been deliberate. I watched the interview this morning and Farage raised several interesting policy points, answered every question put to him very well and batted away LK’s aggressive pro-Tory attitude perfectly. She literally had nothing to say about any of the actual points he made and immediately started trying to accuse him of being racist. Even the Tory MP she interviewed after Farage obviously didn’t want to be involved. The BBC just can’t stand the fact that Farage is not bothered by their aggressive attempts to smear him. Love him or loathe him you cannot deny that the media really doesn’t understand how to deal with someone like him without just shouting ‘racist’
Whilst I may be coming at it from a different angle I do think the culture that Sunak grew up/came from will have had an influence. Over here the war in the east, even at the time, was often forgotten vs the european war. I’d imagine to those from Asia they’ve got much more of an awareness of the war in the east and D-Day won’t have that same resonance. The stupid thing Sunak did was going away for an interview that won’t even be broadcast straight away. Irrelevant of him understanding how big D-Day is culturally it was daft.
https://youtu.be/ogfVnmhjw9o Here he is yesterday saying basically the same thing.. doesnt sound race baiting at all.. seems like BBC is doing the race baiting. https://youtu.be/64kn-G82YPE - full context today.
Something ironic about privately educated, apparently like to wind up teachers by pretending to be fascist, city broker , millions on EU expense account, provided with London luxury flat , car and chauffeur by multimillionaire ….. ‘man of the people’ Farage calling someone else out of touch because of privilege even if correct.
>privately educated city broker calling someone out of touch Ah, the "blue collar millionaire" cliche. He appears dumb as Hell, '*but hard work and modest living*' made him glamorous overnight. Very sexy and "real."
kuessenberg’s unabashed tory sycophancy making her a better journalist for once
I'm so tired of the political tactic of taking something someone said that could be interpreted ambiguously and stating they only meant the worst possible interpretation. Unless you spend five minutes pre-qualifying every statement you make, some things you say will sound ambiguous its a natural trait of language. Yes, occasionally some people do "dog whistle" but this hyper obsession with secret encoded messages that only the most paranoid of journalist can detect, and weirdly enough only when talking about people they don't like, is just exhausting. I'm sure if we took any public figure and sifted through their statements we could find "dog whistles" for just about any political ideology known to man. It's political motivated verbal pareidolia.
It's Farage, he's playing into the ambiguous nature on purpose.
Nigel Farage 'dog whistles' a lot.
Do you think the same about Donald trump (struck by a great deal of unluckily appearing to be dog whistling), and how do you reconcile Nigel’s desire to be seen as close friends with him
Coz Nigel doesn't have a previous track record of dog whistling now does he? Motherfucker was terrified of having a Romanian neighbour I seem to recall....
You'd have to be very naive (or in denial) to not look at the context and who was saying it and realise it was a blatant dog whistle. It didn't take a paranoid journalist to detect it, I understood it the second I heard it. It's plausible deniability while getting his message across to those who agree with him.
Multiculturalism is great and we should celebrate it, but also, everyone in the UK shares exactly the same culture, and to suggest someone doesn't is clearly racist.
Culture is the glue that binds a nation together. "multiculturalism" + "mass immigration" leads to balkanisation as soon as people start splitting down cultural lines. This is the most idiotic and naive stance that progressives have 🤦♂️.
Multiculturalism is a destructive force that has weakened our society.
I hate Farage, but watching the interview i kinda felt like he was more talking about Rishi as a wealthy privileged guy not getting our culture then Kuenssberg smelt blood and led the questioning in such a way to make it sound like he was subtly trying to make a point about his immigrant routs.
> wealthy privileged guy And Farage isn't?
This is the ludicrous part. Farage is part of the exact same group of wealthy financiers. I can’t quite believe his cosplaying has anyone fooled but obviously his BS is quite effective.
There's a vast gap between Farage and Sunak. Farage is new money low-tier city money - solidly middle class but not ridiculous. Sunak is basically a billionaire with global elite connections. Really not the same
ohhh of course he is but doesn't mean he cant point out others being the same. In the context of the interview it really didn't sound to me like he was making claims about the PMs heritage but Kuenssberg then led the questioning and tried to make it about that. Don't get wrong, I do believe Farage is a racist turd its just that on this occasion i think the BBC where just trying desperately to get a sound bite for a headline
Surely it should’ve been a confession then ‘we don’t understand the culture’
Kuensberg making typical BBC mischief. Farage was not "hit by race row". Sunak plainly did not understand the cultural issues by pulling out of D day so early, how offensive it was, even how tactically wrong it was, for him. That is why he has apologised.
Does it really matter? The Tories are going to be slaughtered in the election anyway. They will then quickly get rid of Sunak or he will resign within a month of losing. Soon after he will probably go back to California. Why would he and his wife stay here just to pay millions more in tax?
Reminds me of the 'these people don't understand English Irony' comment he made a few years back.
To be fair I don’t think he was talking about race. More about being in touch with people in the country who really care about our shared history. My dad (a Mail reading die-hard Tory) has been a super fan of Rishi since Covid - he’s met him and raved about him and everything, it’s really unbearable honestly - but even he drew the line at the PM skipping the D Day commemorations and said he’s blown it. People from all parts of the country were rightly angry that the leader who is supposed to represent us at a major international event seemingly didn’t understand its importance and couldn’t be bothered to stay around for it.
Nigel Farage doesn't understand my culture. It's a culture of tolerance and hoping for a world where people respect others.
That only works if the respect goes both ways though.
Yep. The one sided love affair between progressives and Muslims who would have LGBT people stoned in their home countries is very bizarre.
Not seen that much of your supposed culture in the UK on the last half decade.
(unless they have the "wrong" opinion)
"Hoping" Says a lot, if everyone would just bury their head in the sand and stopped noticing things then things might get better! Islamic extremism doesn't care about your "hope".
To be completely honest, I am with Farage on this, which is very rare. He was making the point that Sunak is so wealthy, privileged, and separated from the average Brit that he doesn’t understand British culture for normal people. I’m sure he’s well versed in hunting or whatever. IMO this has nothing to do with race, and is a valid point about how out of touch Sunak is.
Is this like Trump quotes in the US where his supporters need to come out and say "what he actually meant was..."
I'm of the opinion it's calculated to people can hear what they want in it, it's certainly readable in the way you suggest, but the racists will be reading it another way and Farage is knowledgeable enough to know that. It's like when he bangs on about British values or delivering justice for the British people without ever expanding on what those things actually are, It allows less sceptical people to imprint their own meaning. If he was actually pushed to define what British values are beyond vague platitudes like "freedom" and "a fair shake" he knows he people quickly would discover that though we are all British and all have values they may not all align so well.
> Sunak is so wealthy, privileged You're in for a shock when you look into where Nigel went to school and worked before politics.
Nigel Farage even mentioned his schooling earlier in the campaign and how many pupils had scholarships (but not him).
It is amazing where these wonderfully philanthropic scholarships go. I believe boris johnson was a scholarship boy.
That doesn't track, there are lots of wealthy British people, we don't say they (for instance the King) do not understand British culture. In fact lots of the aristocracy are seen as gatekeepers of culture. He knew what he was doing. His defenders will defend, he attackers will attack and lots that feel uncomfortable confronting this type of thing will try to find reasons not to.
I agree with you. No PM in touch with the people would have left the D-Day events early. I noticed years ago that when he talked about the problems facing people he often used the word "they".
Doubt that was his point what with him coming from the same background if not slightly posher
"I have friends who are aristocrats, I have friends who are upper class, I have friends who are working-class...well, not working class." I'm sure we all know who said this given its popularity just in the last few years, but I wouldn't blame anyone for confusing it for Farage, with the caveat being that farage is better at avoiding such gaffes.
>He was making the point that Sunak is so wealthy, privileged, and separated from the average Brit that he doesn’t understand British culture for normal people I sincerely doubt that considering this criticism can also be applied to Farage.
Except Nigel didn't mention Sunak's wealth or privilege.....
“Hit by race row”? “Buoyed in polls by carefully curated controversy”, more like.
The comment is very clearly a response to Sunak skipping D Day commemorations. Not a comment on his race or wealth, but his actions.
No, he was not hit by a race row. Kuenssberg tried to bait him into saying something he didn't say and he defended himself adequately.
Are we surprised? Reform's whole platform is to create an us vs them narrative against immigrants.
And it didn't take long did it? Another bit of racism from Farage, this is why I ignore everything he says, his politics are all about being a racist prick.
> Nigel Farage ~~hit by~~ deliberately created race row with claim Rishi Sunak “doesn't understand our culture” He’s not new to this game.
Gutter journalism from the BBC. Unfortunately it’s expected at this point.