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Anyone else overseas just not received voting papers? Iām in NZ and none of family + friends who are eligible have had them arrive. Enrolled to vote months ago so pretty annoying that Iām just not going to get a chance.
Yeah itās got to arrive back to the relevant council electoral office by Thursday. No chance that Iāll be able to get any papers back in time so no vote from me.
Itās a pretty small sample size but given that nobody I know has received them I thought there might be a wider issue
Day before the deadline is pushing it a little but really the fuckin electoral commission should be capable of getting papers out still.
Being in NZ, even if they arrive today thereās genuinely no chance my vote will be counted as the papers wonāt be arrive in the UK by the fourth
Would anyone agree that Food Banks actually just perpetuate poverty by enabling people to live unsustainable lifestyles?
It makes fuck all sense to live in London if you donāt have money to eat.
Do you realise that people who use food banks arenāt allowed to turn up every week to get food, they are often limited to about once every 2 months or as little as 4 times in one year.
No. Because food is one small piece of a *much* larger puzzle.
Rent and bills are a far bigger financial difficulty - remember that, relative to other countries and relative to other expenditure, food is cheap. Dinner is not the tipping point that makes living in London unsustainable.
Food is also a pretty easy commodity to provide to people, and it satisfies an immediate need with no money transferred.
Whilst we think of food banks as being built on tins and pasta that people leave in the donation point in the supermarket (and that does help, please do it), a lot of the food we give out is direct from suppliers. Surpluses, misprinted packaging, that sort of thing. Or maybe stuff thatās on its ābest beforeā date that a supermarket wonāt sell. Food banks also serve another purpose: they make use of food that would otherwise go to waste. Win-win.
Source: I volunteer at a food bank.
I think the difficulty of changing lifestyle and/or location is understated for this argument.
Itās not like someone in an expensive area moved there and found themselves unable to live. They grew up there, family are there and quite often they were able to make ends meet until problems started.
Itās easy to say āmove elsewhereā but when thatās where you and your family are from, thatās easier said than done.
Moving house is also very expensive - whether you're renting or buying you're looking at thousands of pounds in up-front costs, which people who are struggling to the point that they can't afford food don't have lying around.
[Reform are the new favourites to win Boston and Skegness according to the odds tracker at Parallel Parliament](https://parallelparliament.co.uk/constituency-changes?postcode=Boston+and+Skegness)
That's the only seat along with Clacton that the bookies are favouring for Reform. [Even in Ashfield it looks like Labour might come out on top](https://parallelparliament.co.uk/constituency-changes?postcode=Ashfield)
>The Fens are proper Hills Have Eyes territory
The flats have Hayes.
Yes, I know John Hayes is one constituency over in South Holland, but close enough.
Sunak big speech tomorrow
He really should just concede defeat and offer not to take up his seat in the commons. That gives time for Tory placemen to also resign and sod off from their quango positions. The Tories have poisoned the well of state and if it takes decades for labour, it's because it's that much of a mess Tories have left of public finances, law and institutions. The courts being a really good example.
Supermajority sounds absurd from a party that squandered their own majority away. If the Tories can't even govern properly, how the hell can they be a coherent opposition. Their own MPs are openly courting Reform and likely to defect. Labour are being gifted MPs because of Sunak, and if he also resigns his seat, he gives them one more.
Okay. Seriously. With three days to go before the GE and the entire party having already leaned so far into the *Labour will raise your taxes and kill your darlings* turn it's wiped out like a NASCAR pileup, what could he possibly have left to say?
Sunak: I'm not sticking around for voters choose to do again. I'm choosing to leave. I'd urge other high net worth to leave to before your wealth dries up. They didn't listen to me when Truss got in. Now look at this.
> He really should just concede defeat and offer not to take up his seat in the commons.
He could have taken the bold, and probably unprecedented, step of announcing he wasn't going to contest his seat in the first place and would be standing down.
All he'd have to do is formally tender his resignation to the King on Friday morning, then also tell the Tories he's quitting as leader with immediate effect and he's asked someone (no idea who) to stand in for him. The Tories could then have their usual push and shove to get a new leader instated.
Meanwhile he's off to California within a few hours. Clean break from politics.
I do hate this. It's a shameful thing to admit to.
Democracy depends on the free exchange of ideas, even ones we might disagree with. You're a voter, not an arbiter.
Especially if you have independent candidates running, leaflets are a significant portion of their campaign costs. You're just making them burn money.
It's just pathetic. Base, as the Victorians would say.
Youāre forgetting of course that reading those Tory and Reform leaflets may well have put some sensible voters off casting a vote for themā¦ now they might be tempted still!
Four days and we will either have Starmergeddon or a major upset. Even if we have a reasonably big Labour majority I'm sure Kuenssberg will say its a disappointing night for Labour that its not a gigantic landslide.
If norris's win had to vanish to stop Max getting yet another... then so be it. It also showed once again the sort of dangerous fighter Max is.
but yeah... RL kicking my butt atm, so if it were to turn it's focus off me for a week, that would be useful
The Tories launched their manifesto at Silverstone. Starmer congratulating Norris on his victory next weekend would be such a nice fullstop to the election.
What is this photo meant to be?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/30/labour-stem-rise-populist-right-improving-lives-keir-starmer
He looks like he runs a middlingly successful theatre company.
Today I learned that a 'supermajority' in the Commons gives you the ability to cancel elections for a generation. Thanks for the heads up Mail.
Also Telegraph trying to link Starmer to Putin.
If them dumping loads pictures of Nigel Farage through peoples' letterboxes doesn't convince people they're the party of the far right, I don't know what will.
Because CBC News (Canada) mentioned Farage saying they took the name Reform from the Canadian political landscape especially in the breakthrough 1993 election they had. However, to my knowledge of Canadian politics, their Reform party in 1993 was not as far to the right, but supposedly they did take over their Tory party, which is what Farage will attempt it seems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhT7NwsBrfA
I'm already feeling the butterflies just thinking about it. You watch the on-screen "Polls closing in" clock as the presenter chatters away atop the gallant music, then Big Ben chimes 10pm... and the sacred numbers appear.
Somebody posted earlier that the supermajority line is actually pushing people towards voting Labour (according to polling) - which gives the 'STARMER DONT VOTE STARMER LABOUR EVIL DONT VOTE LABOUR STARMER FOREVER' headlines of the right-leaning newspapers a much nicer flavour
for years the tories have conditioned people against "a coalition of chaos"....now they have tried to u-turn and say "dont have stability with starmer"....its not going to work. people dont want more tory chaos, they want a strong gov, they also want to be on the winning side, and the tories basically admitting defeat at this stage puts more people off them....its another great political move by rishi.
The election photoshops have been meh for a while now, so it inspired me to visit the historic site of b3ta to see what the board produces these days..
https://i.imgur.com/i6FRllF.jpeg is alright, and we're a bit too late to use this one: https://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/65702/1718825180/stonehengetango.jpg
Even the 'shoppers are getting bored.
Today in my conversation with my gran:
"Well i read on my phone that that guy who is trying to get in, i think his name is sharma is planning to get rid of the winter fuel allowance"
Weirdly she had a more educated view on US politics
"i wish that trump would give up, he's mainly supported by that lot who did those riots. he shouldn't even be running given he's been indicted. I know Biden had a funny turn the other day but he was alright once he got going. The US has done alright under him."
>"Well i read on my phone that that guy who is trying to get in, i think his name is sharma is planning to get rid of the winter fuel allowance"
You should have pointed out that Alok Sharma is a Tory
It's so, so easy to fall into trap of 'older people get fooled by what they read online and in the papers'
But we are seeing a rise in support for Reform from teens so...
Yeah i had to check where she got it from and it's an article repeating a tory claim about labour. Which was based on the fact that back in 2019 (and subsequently dropped), labour pledged to means test the allowance. When i pointed this out to her she was like "yeah, if i were a millionaire i would rather my winter fuel allowance went to help other people"
I decided I'm not even going to ask who's she's voting for. I know she falls into the category of economically left ("we should help those in need and it's not right that young people can't afford homes"), pro environmentalist, anti immigration, socially conservative. So i can see her voting reform despite them being against everything she believes in.
I want to see what UKPol thinks this comments is implying (I've just seen it).
"It's good that England have gone through as the fans will be staying in Germany so can't vote for the Tories or Reform on Thursday"
To me it's almost implying that because they are more patriotic and showing it they are by definition right-wing (ignoring the fact that football is still grassroots working class and therefore naturally left-wing)
I don't know - but I would guess that the fans out there will be more Labour-leaning. The typical racist/ignorant England fan doesn't spend thousands going out to Germany.
I mean you could also cut it on pure economic grounds that the people who can afford to spend the euros in Germany are more likely to be pensioners (hence tory / reform) voters.
Not sure its true though ;)
Football fans, especially England international football fans (less so at club level except big 6 teams), changed a lot during the European ban for hooliganism, Thatchers crackdown on hooligans, the massive increase in commercialisation post Premier League split/Sky and eventually the home 1996 Euros.
Thereās still some, but the general sort following England abroad has definitely changed. England fans have a very undeserved reputation for hooliganism, especially amongst other Europeans whose own hooligans will often attack England fans, based on stereotypes from decades ago.
Iād say the political demographics of football fans in this country probably matches the country as a whole generally. Different areas will lean different ways of course, but it is by far the most popular sport in the country. Itās as close to universal as any one thing can be and there isnāt just one demographic who like it or not
Anyone who is in Germany and hasn't sorted out postal or proxy voting never cared that much about voting anyway. I reckon most of those won't have bothered voting if in the country anyway. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them simply haven't thought about it but would have wandered down to their polling station at some point.
You could start off explaining why you are right about it. The burden of proof yadayadayada
Honestly mate it's just wrong at best, delusional at worst.
Mainly played by workers especially those in Primary and Secondary Industries. Very much a traditional left wing section of society. Most clubs were founded by workers for recreation as well.
Varies from region to region. The grass roots of football in the South East are about as right wing as you could get.
You should google some London club's connections to far right politics and also organised crime.
Match thread is absolutely toxic. Like honestly itās fucking insane the pure, unfiltered hatred in there.
I think itās politically relevant because I genuinely think a lot of that drives the independence debate on a subconscious level. So many aspects of Scottish identity are about England.
They can say itās because of Westminster rule and Tories or whatever but itās something deeper. The hate is too strong.
Itās like a little brother complex, Scotland is the smaller brother in the shadow of the older and more successful brother. So Scotland has this built in desire to see England fail even if itās as trivial as football, like a jealous little brother would. and of course when it comes to independence itās not that Scottish nationalists are opposed to political unions as many want to be in the EU a union which they would have significantly less power in than the UK were they make up 8% of the population. their hatred towards the United kingdom is out of a desire to hurt England rather than opposition to the UK as a idea, ironically Scotland leaving the UK might he the greatest example of cutting of your nose to spite your face. And also football tends to attract nationalists, itās the same with english fans.
Just saw the channel four doc on Shrewsbury hospital... Shocking, but not shocking. Had a very similar experience recently in our hospital.Ā
How realistic is it that this something that Keir can sort out, or are we structurally destined to worsening healthcare due to demographic trends?
So it goes counter to my sensibilities politically, but I think it's the most logical solution to do what Labour are saying (caveat: if it works).
40,000 appointments per day using private capacity to reduce the backlog, when you get the backlog resolved you look at transformative change (digitising the umpteen forms nurses have to fill out, data sharing, etc.) and then maybe you streamline the NHS and can ween yourself off private a bit.
I also think in general the idea of shared capacity across trusts etc makes sense, but I know some people are opposed to travelling for surgery etc so that may be harder.
>Ā Ā and then maybe you streamline the NHS and can ween yourself off private a bit.
You can't.
The service provided in the private sector is done so by staff already working for the NHS, but in their uncontracted time.
And any specialty that has attempted to utilise the private sector to address waiting lists has only seen reliance on it grow. Ophthal for example started with 20% of cataract surgeries being done by theĀ private sector, now it's more than 50%.
Lets get it right, what you mean is that NHS medical staff realized they were being done for pay, so have maximised their private hours, and since they now have a conflict of interest, they have found ways to increase the private element.
Yea that's the bit that's confusing me.Ā
There really aren't very many private hospitals in this country. The vast amount of out actually quite small private health care market rents beds and rooms off of the NHS.Ā
The use private capacity to eliminate backlogs seems like a non starterĀ
I think this is the case. The trouble with a nearly-broken system is that you spend just as much money keeping it in a nearly-broken state (with the service to match) as someone spends keeping a system that is properly functioning ticking over. There's not really much chance of being able to fix the NHS unless there is a significant amount of work put into clearing the seemingly never-ending backlog.
Yeah it's the only logical thing to me. I hate it personally because it shouldn't have gotten to this, but at this point before you make meaningful change you have to clear the pressure on the system.
1988: 9%
1993: 12%
1997: 15%
2002: 11%
2007: 4%
2012: 13%
2017: 13%
2022: 18%
2024: 34%
Le Penās/National Front Parliamentary performance. This is what happens when you canāt stop illegals and high immigration. Itāll happen to us, fortunately Iāve got an EU passport so donāt have to stick around but to everyone else who seemingly thinks we have no problem and the solution is to accept every illegal from Timbuktu, thatās what awaits
In 2022, Italy elected the brothers of Italy party, which ran on a similar platform to the national front party. Have a look at italy's immigration figures since and the opinion polling trends in Italy.
When the fantasy of populist anti immigration policy meets reality, and leads to a surge in immigration, the populism will die.
We don't "accept illegals".
We accept people into temporary accommodation if they claim asylum while they are processed.
They are not able to work while they are processed so it costs us money.
The Conservative governments of the last 14 years have gotten substantially worse at processing claims.
Leaving the EU also reduced the number of returns agreements we have.
If we processed people we could start to send them back, or get them out of hotels and working if they are legitimate claims.
Also, not intpol brother, so wrong thread.
So you have an EU passport and will escape the British right wing by escaping to countries that are electing even more right wing parties?
Truly a genius.
People probably already know this owing to its shoutout on one of this week's London Playbooks, but a fun little game for the election period is [Polldle](https://polldle.uk/) - where one must guess the Parliamentary Constituency according to statistics and hints.
I've been doing it for over a week now, its rather addictive.
And I'd just been wondering who the shadow Welsh secretery could possibly be if the Lib Dems become opposition so had been looking [this map] (https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/dynamicmap.html?newbdy=Y).
Trump wonāt win so itās Biden and him plus all of those right wing leaders. He will likely get along with almost all of them outside of wilders and trump.
I wonder if Liam Booth-Isherwood is related to Christopher Isherwood? Christopher wrote Mr.Norris Changes Trains and Goodbye to Berlin which were made into the movie Cabaret and documented the rise of the far right in 1930s Germany.
Was very much not your question, but for some reason it made me wonder what adjustments and options there are for people with visual impairments to vote.
Turns out you can get large print ballot papers, and there are tactile templates which fit over the ballot papers to make it easier for people to find the boxes, which can then be used in conjuction with devices that read the text and say it out loud. Neat, as it allows people to still vote independently and in private (though from the RNIB website it does also seem permissable for polling staff to help someone mark the ballot if necessary)
The RNIB also provide the Tory and Labour manifestos in braille
Again, nothing much to do with your question, but thought I'd share in case anyone else gets curious about these sorts of details
Something to note is that (at least in my experience) the tactile devices don't necessarily fit every ballot - this may have been adjusted for this week's election, but they didn't fit the ballot paper at my polling station in May.
I'm told as long as I keep it within the box, I'm allowed to draw whatever I deem appropriate to mark my ballot paper. Want to get some art practice in before the big day. Has been a while since I did A Level art.
I'm thinking I'll go for a adequately drawn cock and balls; as the candidate I'm going to have to vote for is a bit of a knob I'm told - but the alternative is vote for the incumbent Tory. I'm in the office the day before and where I'm usually one of the last ones out when I'm in I should be able to get 15 mins to get some drawing practice in and providing I can get it done quite quickly we'll do it come Thursday. I quite fancy having my artwork up on the big screen at the local Counting Centre.
Yeah as someone else commented it's only 15mm so probably will scratch this idea. On one of the other threads on here today - as long as it's in the box, it counts.
Listening to The Rest is Politics and both Campbell and Stewart saying Biden has to go.
This is interesting because Campbell has spent years saying Biden is fine and completely dismissing the legitimate concerns about him simply because those concerns have come from, and benefit, āthe other sideā.
I raise this here because it really highlights how the āLeftā (or maybe ānot-Rightā is more apt?) has really kind of shut itself away from peoplesā concerns over the years, even when those concerns are *blatant*. Thereās almost a complete inability to listen. With the French elections and the rise of Reform here too it feels like a really striking example of this problem. The problem is that in doing this, it creates a space for the populist right to thrive.
Itās an odd one because Biden infront of a teleprompter does pretty well. Then a performance like the debate happens and itās a complete unmitigated and irrevocable disaster. Ultimately, people are allowed to change their minds.
Out of interest, did they also raise that Trump shouldn't be there too?
Anybody who claims (rightly in my opinion) that Biden shouldn't be running must surely also concede that Trump also shouldn't be running.
#The final pre-election subreddit voter intention survey is closed There will be a further survey run on polling day, with the results published at 10pm as the polls close. [**š live results dashboard**](https://lookerstudio.google.com/reporting/26a6d397-1d8e-4e92-bb84-b6eb36485121) *(refreshed every 15 mins)*
[New Megathread is here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1dskun9/rukpolitics_general_election_campaign_megathread/)
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Anyone else overseas just not received voting papers? Iām in NZ and none of family + friends who are eligible have had them arrive. Enrolled to vote months ago so pretty annoying that Iām just not going to get a chance.
Are you expected to post it back by Thursday? too late by now surely.
Yeah itās got to arrive back to the relevant council electoral office by Thursday. No chance that Iāll be able to get any papers back in time so no vote from me. Itās a pretty small sample size but given that nobody I know has received them I thought there might be a wider issue
Iām in Brisbane. Havenāt received them yet.
Iām in California and received mine from The London Borough of Islington on Tuesday last week.
Glad to hear youāve got yours! I guess itās luck of the draw with the different councils getting their shit together.
I'm still waiting on my postal vote but in fairness I only managed to get it sorted the day before the deadline. Still worrying though.
Day before the deadline is pushing it a little but really the fuckin electoral commission should be capable of getting papers out still. Being in NZ, even if they arrive today thereās genuinely no chance my vote will be counted as the papers wonāt be arrive in the UK by the fourth
Each council is responsible for sending out postal ballots themselves, not the electoral commission.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Would anyone agree that Food Banks actually just perpetuate poverty by enabling people to live unsustainable lifestyles? It makes fuck all sense to live in London if you donāt have money to eat.
Just leave your job rip up your life and move somewhere else it's so simple and doesn't have any potential side effects.
Do you realise that people who use food banks arenāt allowed to turn up every week to get food, they are often limited to about once every 2 months or as little as 4 times in one year.
No. Because food is one small piece of a *much* larger puzzle. Rent and bills are a far bigger financial difficulty - remember that, relative to other countries and relative to other expenditure, food is cheap. Dinner is not the tipping point that makes living in London unsustainable. Food is also a pretty easy commodity to provide to people, and it satisfies an immediate need with no money transferred. Whilst we think of food banks as being built on tins and pasta that people leave in the donation point in the supermarket (and that does help, please do it), a lot of the food we give out is direct from suppliers. Surpluses, misprinted packaging, that sort of thing. Or maybe stuff thatās on its ābest beforeā date that a supermarket wonāt sell. Food banks also serve another purpose: they make use of food that would otherwise go to waste. Win-win. Source: I volunteer at a food bank.
Oh hello I was wondering where youād been lately, nice to see you back š
If you have no money, moving out of London is also very difficult. It costs a lot to move, even on the cheap, especially if you have a family.
I think the difficulty of changing lifestyle and/or location is understated for this argument. Itās not like someone in an expensive area moved there and found themselves unable to live. They grew up there, family are there and quite often they were able to make ends meet until problems started. Itās easy to say āmove elsewhereā but when thatās where you and your family are from, thatās easier said than done.
Moving house is also very expensive - whether you're renting or buying you're looking at thousands of pounds in up-front costs, which people who are struggling to the point that they can't afford food don't have lying around.
[Reform are the new favourites to win Boston and Skegness according to the odds tracker at Parallel Parliament](https://parallelparliament.co.uk/constituency-changes?postcode=Boston+and+Skegness) That's the only seat along with Clacton that the bookies are favouring for Reform. [Even in Ashfield it looks like Labour might come out on top](https://parallelparliament.co.uk/constituency-changes?postcode=Ashfield)
The Fens are proper Hills Have Eyes territory and have been a UKIP/Brexit bastion for years. Unsurprising if it does happen.
>The Fens are proper Hills Have Eyes territory The flats have Hayes. Yes, I know John Hayes is one constituency over in South Holland, but close enough.
It's the flatness, they say. Drives a man mad, they say.
Sunak big speech tomorrow He really should just concede defeat and offer not to take up his seat in the commons. That gives time for Tory placemen to also resign and sod off from their quango positions. The Tories have poisoned the well of state and if it takes decades for labour, it's because it's that much of a mess Tories have left of public finances, law and institutions. The courts being a really good example. Supermajority sounds absurd from a party that squandered their own majority away. If the Tories can't even govern properly, how the hell can they be a coherent opposition. Their own MPs are openly courting Reform and likely to defect. Labour are being gifted MPs because of Sunak, and if he also resigns his seat, he gives them one more.
Okay. Seriously. With three days to go before the GE and the entire party having already leaned so far into the *Labour will raise your taxes and kill your darlings* turn it's wiped out like a NASCAR pileup, what could he possibly have left to say?
Sunak: I'm not sticking around for voters choose to do again. I'm choosing to leave. I'd urge other high net worth to leave to before your wealth dries up. They didn't listen to me when Truss got in. Now look at this.
> He really should just concede defeat and offer not to take up his seat in the commons. He could have taken the bold, and probably unprecedented, step of announcing he wasn't going to contest his seat in the first place and would be standing down. All he'd have to do is formally tender his resignation to the King on Friday morning, then also tell the Tories he's quitting as leader with immediate effect and he's asked someone (no idea who) to stand in for him. The Tories could then have their usual push and shove to get a new leader instated. Meanwhile he's off to California within a few hours. Clean break from politics.
Yep, any idea that the Tories can win now will just sound sad and desperate. Best to go out with a bit of dignity.
Sunak rallies Tories for final push: "Sorry, lads, I fucked it. I'll get my coat."
>"Sorry, lads, I fucked it. I'll get my coat." Honestly, id respect him a bit more if he just owned his failure like that
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> Sorry Make amends then. Get them out and put them back where they should be.
Pretty shameful admission
Why? Do you consider your ideology to be so weak and vulnerable that youāll stop people from hearing about other views?
I do hate this. It's a shameful thing to admit to. Democracy depends on the free exchange of ideas, even ones we might disagree with. You're a voter, not an arbiter. Especially if you have independent candidates running, leaflets are a significant portion of their campaign costs. You're just making them burn money. It's just pathetic. Base, as the Victorians would say.
Iām honestly disgusted with you. You should have binned the Green leaflets as well
I've been ripping up the reform leaflets coming tthrough our frontdoor
Roger Stone, eat your heart out.
Party activists hate this one simple trick
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Youāre forgetting of course that reading those Tory and Reform leaflets may well have put some sensible voters off casting a vote for themā¦ now they might be tempted still!
Four days and we will either have Starmergeddon or a major upset. Even if we have a reasonably big Labour majority I'm sure Kuenssberg will say its a disappointing night for Labour that its not a gigantic landslide.
People here have such a hate of Kuenssberg, yet I bet you she'll be voting for Labour and cheerleading them.
Lol
What? I must be thinking of a different Kuenssberg.
Tory Laura?
After what happened in the F1 today and the abysmal football performance, I need a total Conservative annihilation this week to cheer me up.
If norris's win had to vanish to stop Max getting yet another... then so be it. It also showed once again the sort of dangerous fighter Max is. but yeah... RL kicking my butt atm, so if it were to turn it's focus off me for a week, that would be useful
The Tories launched their manifesto at Silverstone. Starmer congratulating Norris on his victory next weekend would be such a nice fullstop to the election.
I know we were shite but at least we still won in the football
What is this photo meant to be? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/30/labour-stem-rise-populist-right-improving-lives-keir-starmer He looks like he runs a middlingly successful theatre company.
Serious business means serious photography.
Not a thirsty sub.
The heart wants what it wants
Americanisation is in full swing. Let the Dark Starmer memes begin.
He looks exactly like my dad when I came home too late from the pub circa 2009
He's performing his new play *Waiting for Tories*
*A Director Calls*
*Down Came A Party*.
It means he's on the left, but some idiots think he's on the right.
>I'm going to north sentinel island. >[...] >https://x.com/real_lord_miles/status/1807185708492173728 Can FCDO please revoke his passport already
Wait, this *isn't* a parody account? Good lord.
He's gonna get arrested as soon as he steps off his plane in India.
He's a wild one. On the spectrum btw.
for his Americanised spelling alone yes
Eh, once he gets there, he'll never need a passport again.
Daily Mail with another āLABOUR IN POWER FOR A GENERATIONā headline. Itās embarrassing at this point.
We sure this isn't their pivot to the under 60s, and giving them the headlines they want to read.
ED DAVEY TO HOST GENERATION GAME!
Vote for the Tories because otherwise people will realize how much life is better under Labour they wonāt vote Tory for a generation
Today I learned that a 'supermajority' in the Commons gives you the ability to cancel elections for a generation. Thanks for the heads up Mail. Also Telegraph trying to link Starmer to Putin.
>āLABOUR IN POWER FOR A GENERATIONā I cant remember the Daily Mail ever threatening me with a good time before
'LABOUR GENERATING POWER FOR THE POPULATION'
TORIES UNELECTABLE FOR A GENERATION
How many people will be unknowingly voting Reform thinking its some sort of non-far right alliance?
If them dumping loads pictures of Nigel Farage through peoples' letterboxes doesn't convince people they're the party of the far right, I don't know what will.
Good question. The polling companies should be asking people to rate them on the left-right scale.
Because CBC News (Canada) mentioned Farage saying they took the name Reform from the Canadian political landscape especially in the breakthrough 1993 election they had. However, to my knowledge of Canadian politics, their Reform party in 1993 was not as far to the right, but supposedly they did take over their Tory party, which is what Farage will attempt it seems. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhT7NwsBrfA
Pretty much 95 hours til the exit poll
I'm already feeling the butterflies just thinking about it. You watch the on-screen "Polls closing in" clock as the presenter chatters away atop the gallant music, then Big Ben chimes 10pm... and the sacred numbers appear.
There's a chance I won't be home by 10pm so I may have to make do with furiously refreshing my phone.
exciting
[Dawn of the First Day, Four Days Remaining](https://youtu.be/4dYLtGnKLIs?si=DZQAc_hapMSDCIwn).
You've met with a terrible fate, haven't you, Rishi?
Somebody posted earlier that the supermajority line is actually pushing people towards voting Labour (according to polling) - which gives the 'STARMER DONT VOTE STARMER LABOUR EVIL DONT VOTE LABOUR STARMER FOREVER' headlines of the right-leaning newspapers a much nicer flavour
for years the tories have conditioned people against "a coalition of chaos"....now they have tried to u-turn and say "dont have stability with starmer"....its not going to work. people dont want more tory chaos, they want a strong gov, they also want to be on the winning side, and the tories basically admitting defeat at this stage puts more people off them....its another great political move by rishi.
[MT image?](https://x.com/christhebarker/status/1807526685723828671/photo/1)
The election photoshops have been meh for a while now, so it inspired me to visit the historic site of b3ta to see what the board produces these days.. https://i.imgur.com/i6FRllF.jpeg is alright, and we're a bit too late to use this one: https://www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/65702/1718825180/stonehengetango.jpg Even the 'shoppers are getting bored.
Did you know the one guy in ZZTOP that didnāt have a beard was called Frank Beard?
Labour do not have a manifesto pledge that they won't tax beards.
Today in my conversation with my gran: "Well i read on my phone that that guy who is trying to get in, i think his name is sharma is planning to get rid of the winter fuel allowance" Weirdly she had a more educated view on US politics "i wish that trump would give up, he's mainly supported by that lot who did those riots. he shouldn't even be running given he's been indicted. I know Biden had a funny turn the other day but he was alright once he got going. The US has done alright under him."
>"Well i read on my phone that that guy who is trying to get in, i think his name is sharma is planning to get rid of the winter fuel allowance" You should have pointed out that Alok Sharma is a Tory
It's so, so easy to fall into trap of 'older people get fooled by what they read online and in the papers' But we are seeing a rise in support for Reform from teens so...
Yeah i had to check where she got it from and it's an article repeating a tory claim about labour. Which was based on the fact that back in 2019 (and subsequently dropped), labour pledged to means test the allowance. When i pointed this out to her she was like "yeah, if i were a millionaire i would rather my winter fuel allowance went to help other people" I decided I'm not even going to ask who's she's voting for. I know she falls into the category of economically left ("we should help those in need and it's not right that young people can't afford homes"), pro environmentalist, anti immigration, socially conservative. So i can see her voting reform despite them being against everything she believes in.
Someone's gotta fulfill the lizardman role
I want to see what UKPol thinks this comments is implying (I've just seen it). "It's good that England have gone through as the fans will be staying in Germany so can't vote for the Tories or Reform on Thursday" To me it's almost implying that because they are more patriotic and showing it they are by definition right-wing (ignoring the fact that football is still grassroots working class and therefore naturally left-wing)
I don't know - but I would guess that the fans out there will be more Labour-leaning. The typical racist/ignorant England fan doesn't spend thousands going out to Germany.
I mean you could also cut it on pure economic grounds that the people who can afford to spend the euros in Germany are more likely to be pensioners (hence tory / reform) voters. Not sure its true though ;)
Nah, I don't think there are many pensioners going out to follow England. Some, but not many.
The 70 year history of British football hooliganism abroad says otherwise.
Football fans, especially England international football fans (less so at club level except big 6 teams), changed a lot during the European ban for hooliganism, Thatchers crackdown on hooligans, the massive increase in commercialisation post Premier League split/Sky and eventually the home 1996 Euros. Thereās still some, but the general sort following England abroad has definitely changed. England fans have a very undeserved reputation for hooliganism, especially amongst other Europeans whose own hooligans will often attack England fans, based on stereotypes from decades ago.
Yes it's improved a lot but the idea that 'grassroots' fans are left wing is for the birds.
Iād say the political demographics of football fans in this country probably matches the country as a whole generally. Different areas will lean different ways of course, but it is by far the most popular sport in the country. Itās as close to universal as any one thing can be and there isnāt just one demographic who like it or not
Anyone who is in Germany and hasn't sorted out postal or proxy voting never cared that much about voting anyway. I reckon most of those won't have bothered voting if in the country anyway. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of them simply haven't thought about it but would have wandered down to their polling station at some point.
[Not sure about that](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQa9qjUXkAA9xIy?format=jpg&name=900x900).
Real life coldwar steve
>the fact that football is still grassroots working class and therefore naturally left-wing lol
what? How am I wrong that the Grassroots are naturally Left-Wing.
You could start off explaining why you are right about it. The burden of proof yadayadayada Honestly mate it's just wrong at best, delusional at worst.
Mainly played by workers especially those in Primary and Secondary Industries. Very much a traditional left wing section of society. Most clubs were founded by workers for recreation as well.
FWIW I associate football with the right wing. I'd need some serious proof to change that association.
Varies from region to region. The grass roots of football in the South East are about as right wing as you could get. You should google some London club's connections to far right politics and also organised crime.
Why are grassroots naturally left-wing?
Very much working class and the "working man" type. Most clubs founded by workers of a place. Traditional Primary and Secondary Industry types
I've no idea if you're serious...?
Sorry did you miss the gigantic political realignment of Brexit and of 2019 where class is no longer an indicator of political party voting?
Corbyn thinking right thereĀ
Scottish football subreddit. Whewwwww.
Imagine itās the saltiest place on earth RN
Match thread is absolutely toxic. Like honestly itās fucking insane the pure, unfiltered hatred in there. I think itās politically relevant because I genuinely think a lot of that drives the independence debate on a subconscious level. So many aspects of Scottish identity are about England. They can say itās because of Westminster rule and Tories or whatever but itās something deeper. The hate is too strong.
Itās like a little brother complex, Scotland is the smaller brother in the shadow of the older and more successful brother. So Scotland has this built in desire to see England fail even if itās as trivial as football, like a jealous little brother would. and of course when it comes to independence itās not that Scottish nationalists are opposed to political unions as many want to be in the EU a union which they would have significantly less power in than the UK were they make up 8% of the population. their hatred towards the United kingdom is out of a desire to hurt England rather than opposition to the UK as a idea, ironically Scotland leaving the UK might he the greatest example of cutting of your nose to spite your face. And also football tends to attract nationalists, itās the same with english fans.
Just saw the channel four doc on Shrewsbury hospital... Shocking, but not shocking. Had a very similar experience recently in our hospital.Ā How realistic is it that this something that Keir can sort out, or are we structurally destined to worsening healthcare due to demographic trends?
So it goes counter to my sensibilities politically, but I think it's the most logical solution to do what Labour are saying (caveat: if it works). 40,000 appointments per day using private capacity to reduce the backlog, when you get the backlog resolved you look at transformative change (digitising the umpteen forms nurses have to fill out, data sharing, etc.) and then maybe you streamline the NHS and can ween yourself off private a bit. I also think in general the idea of shared capacity across trusts etc makes sense, but I know some people are opposed to travelling for surgery etc so that may be harder.
>Ā Ā and then maybe you streamline the NHS and can ween yourself off private a bit. You can't. The service provided in the private sector is done so by staff already working for the NHS, but in their uncontracted time. And any specialty that has attempted to utilise the private sector to address waiting lists has only seen reliance on it grow. Ophthal for example started with 20% of cataract surgeries being done by theĀ private sector, now it's more than 50%.
Lets get it right, what you mean is that NHS medical staff realized they were being done for pay, so have maximised their private hours, and since they now have a conflict of interest, they have found ways to increase the private element.
> using private capacity to reduce the backlog does this private capacity _actually exist_?
Considering it's often the same (consultant level) doctors who work NHS and private, not really?
Yea that's the bit that's confusing me.Ā There really aren't very many private hospitals in this country. The vast amount of out actually quite small private health care market rents beds and rooms off of the NHS.Ā The use private capacity to eliminate backlogs seems like a non starterĀ
For the most part ? No
I think this is the case. The trouble with a nearly-broken system is that you spend just as much money keeping it in a nearly-broken state (with the service to match) as someone spends keeping a system that is properly functioning ticking over. There's not really much chance of being able to fix the NHS unless there is a significant amount of work put into clearing the seemingly never-ending backlog.
Yeah it's the only logical thing to me. I hate it personally because it shouldn't have gotten to this, but at this point before you make meaningful change you have to clear the pressure on the system.
1988: 9% 1993: 12% 1997: 15% 2002: 11% 2007: 4% 2012: 13% 2017: 13% 2022: 18% 2024: 34% Le Penās/National Front Parliamentary performance. This is what happens when you canāt stop illegals and high immigration. Itāll happen to us, fortunately Iāve got an EU passport so donāt have to stick around but to everyone else who seemingly thinks we have no problem and the solution is to accept every illegal from Timbuktu, thatās what awaits
You understand every European nation takes in WAY more immigrants right?
Your solution to high immigration is to become an immigrant? 5D chess, mate.
In 2022, Italy elected the brothers of Italy party, which ran on a similar platform to the national front party. Have a look at italy's immigration figures since and the opinion polling trends in Italy. When the fantasy of populist anti immigration policy meets reality, and leads to a surge in immigration, the populism will die.
We don't "accept illegals". We accept people into temporary accommodation if they claim asylum while they are processed. They are not able to work while they are processed so it costs us money. The Conservative governments of the last 14 years have gotten substantially worse at processing claims. Leaving the EU also reduced the number of returns agreements we have. If we processed people we could start to send them back, or get them out of hotels and working if they are legitimate claims. Also, not intpol brother, so wrong thread.
Personally I think we're about 12 years off a far right government following current trends.
and which EU country's high immigration statistic do you plan to contribute to, given that the big names are all going further right than we are?
>stop illegals New Labour my arse.
Yeah, mask slipped a while ago tbh.
Fairly new to here so wouldn't know. I find the concept of flairs something that's open to abuse.
We don't accept illegals. We accept people with valid claims and deport those without.
>We accept people with valid claims and deport those without. You missed the words "try to"
you show your hand when you refer to a human being as merely an 'illegal'
So you have an EU passport and will escape the British right wing by escaping to countries that are electing even more right wing parties? Truly a genius.
Still feel traumatised by the England game - just 3 work days to get through until election feverrrrrr
People probably already know this owing to its shoutout on one of this week's London Playbooks, but a fun little game for the election period is [Polldle](https://polldle.uk/) - where one must guess the Parliamentary Constituency according to statistics and hints. I've been doing it for over a week now, its rather addictive.
Any way to get to previous days?Ā
Oooh, first guess!
Its an easy one today, the worse ones are the LAB gains from CON in like the midlands
Same, pretty easy one when you notice Plaid
And I'd just been wondering who the shadow Welsh secretery could possibly be if the Lib Dems become opposition so had been looking [this map] (https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/dynamicmap.html?newbdy=Y).
Yup. Saw straight away there was only one seat that it could be. Pretty straight forward.
Will be interesting to watch Starmer build relations with his closest allies; Trump, Le Pen, Gert Vilders, Georgia Melloni, and Pierre Poilievre. Lol
Trump wonāt win so itās Biden and him plus all of those right wing leaders. He will likely get along with almost all of them outside of wilders and trump.
I admire your confidence.
There will probably be a new German Chancellor next year too, it's not looking good for Scholz at the moment.
We're about to see if the centrists are prepared to resign their power to prevent the far right taking power.
Macron deliberately vague on that score - said to block the RN, but didn't say whether his third-place candidates would be withdrawn.
Think the pm just should confirmed that they would
Le Pen won't be involved until 2027 unless Macron resigns
Starmer will be getting a favourable deal with the EU on trade and immigration supposedly withā¦ umm Le Pen.
[I had to re-read this headline because of the past few months](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crgk44k4mzxo)
I wonder if Liam Booth-Isherwood is related to Christopher Isherwood? Christopher wrote Mr.Norris Changes Trains and Goodbye to Berlin which were made into the movie Cabaret and documented the rise of the far right in 1930s Germany.
Typically how big is the voting box on the voting forms (is there a standard size?).
Was very much not your question, but for some reason it made me wonder what adjustments and options there are for people with visual impairments to vote. Turns out you can get large print ballot papers, and there are tactile templates which fit over the ballot papers to make it easier for people to find the boxes, which can then be used in conjuction with devices that read the text and say it out loud. Neat, as it allows people to still vote independently and in private (though from the RNIB website it does also seem permissable for polling staff to help someone mark the ballot if necessary) The RNIB also provide the Tory and Labour manifestos in braille Again, nothing much to do with your question, but thought I'd share in case anyone else gets curious about these sorts of details
Something to note is that (at least in my experience) the tactile devices don't necessarily fit every ballot - this may have been adjusted for this week's election, but they didn't fit the ballot paper at my polling station in May.
Super interesting and didn't know that and I'm actually glad people with those levels of impairment are supported with these issues.
I'm intrigued, why the query?
Theyāre up to something.
Can only assume for printing false ballot papers
I thought maybe to create a stamp of some kind?
I'm told as long as I keep it within the box, I'm allowed to draw whatever I deem appropriate to mark my ballot paper. Want to get some art practice in before the big day. Has been a while since I did A Level art.
Interesting. What do you have planned. And how long are you planning on being in the booth?
I'm thinking I'll go for a adequately drawn cock and balls; as the candidate I'm going to have to vote for is a bit of a knob I'm told - but the alternative is vote for the incumbent Tory. I'm in the office the day before and where I'm usually one of the last ones out when I'm in I should be able to get 15 mins to get some drawing practice in and providing I can get it done quite quickly we'll do it come Thursday. I quite fancy having my artwork up on the big screen at the local Counting Centre.
Roughly 15mm wide
Damn that's probably too small to do anything without spoiling my paper. Is what it is.
Make sure you include something that makes it abundantly clear who you are voting for. Just calling somebody a nob may not achieve it.
Yeah as someone else commented it's only 15mm so probably will scratch this idea. On one of the other threads on here today - as long as it's in the box, it counts.
2cm square if I remember correctly If someone has an unsent postal vote they could measure as its usually the same size in my experience
I didn't think it was that big? Though actually the postal vote slip was huge, so maybe.
Thank you. Super helpful š
Listening to The Rest is Politics and both Campbell and Stewart saying Biden has to go. This is interesting because Campbell has spent years saying Biden is fine and completely dismissing the legitimate concerns about him simply because those concerns have come from, and benefit, āthe other sideā. I raise this here because it really highlights how the āLeftā (or maybe ānot-Rightā is more apt?) has really kind of shut itself away from peoplesā concerns over the years, even when those concerns are *blatant*. Thereās almost a complete inability to listen. With the French elections and the rise of Reform here too it feels like a really striking example of this problem. The problem is that in doing this, it creates a space for the populist right to thrive.
More like the "liberal centre-left". The real left has been saying that Biden is too old and should step down for forever (see Hasan et al).
Itās an odd one because Biden infront of a teleprompter does pretty well. Then a performance like the debate happens and itās a complete unmitigated and irrevocable disaster. Ultimately, people are allowed to change their minds.
Out of interest, did they also raise that Trump shouldn't be there too? Anybody who claims (rightly in my opinion) that Biden shouldn't be running must surely also concede that Trump also shouldn't be running.