Snapshot of _Gordon Brown says Keir Starmer's Labour government 'will be better than 1997' _ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/gordon-brown-insists-keir-starmers-33135108) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/gordon-brown-insists-keir-starmers-33135108)
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Problems I see ahead for Labour, which will stop any big improvements.
a) They've tied themselves to keeping too many of the Tories policies and imposed their own financial straightjacket to avoid any tax and spend accusations. Breaking these won't be possible in a first term, which could allow Reform or another Right Wing party prosper. Given the Liberals are probably too much Tax and Spend, needs loosening a bit not the taps opened.
b) Trump and the US election. If Trump wins he's going to cause chaos even if he doesn't actually push through with more extreme policies, it's just the way he is - a big child who throws out his toys if he doesn't get his way. For example demanding more money spent on defence or I'll pull out of NATO, Trade negotiations that amount to capitulate to US demands or we're not playing, Best we can hope for with him is that he spends 4 years being vindictive with everyone that was involved in his prosecutions and looking (unsuccessfully) to get a third term.
The financial straightjacket worries me too. They keep bleeting on about how they're going to improve NHS waiting times and education and all that jazz... but where's the money coming from?
The question is less where’s it coming from, it’s more where’s the money? They aren’t promising to spend an awful lot because the nation doesn’t have an awful lot. It’s intelligent politics and I hope to god the trend of not promising what you can’t deliver sticks. Call Keir boring if you want, he’s no liar.
That also worries me though. They say they want to stimulate the economy, but that needs investment. They want to improve NHS waiting times, but how they going to do that without the money? Every politician seems to say that they're going to just magically do better management and maybe they can, but I just can't see it happening.
There are two likely outcomes, either Labour have to U-turn and increase tax or borrow more to fulfill their promises, or they'll just continue the same austerity we've been suffering under for 14 years and the economy and public services will continue to stagnate, and they'll end their 5 year term not having achieved much of anything and open the way for the same right wing populism we've seen elsewhere in Europe. I'd much prefer the former but either way is going to be a bumpy ride.
I presume you haven't been keeping up with Labour on devolution and localism. Much of it comes from the recommendations of a commission headed by Brown.
Labour haven't adopted [Brown's proposed method of raising new tax revenue](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/27/britain-seems-stuck-in-a-doom-loop-of-poverty-i-have-a-plan-to-raise-billions-to-address-that) though.
(or, at least, they haven't publically backed it)
I generally like him to.
But, I think many people are too quick to label dull sounding, wonkish policy suggetions such as the ones he's making in that article as being "technocratic" as if they're a bit of a no-brainer.
There are quite a few good arguements against his proposal.
E.g. like it or not the Financial Services space is one of the few ares where the UK is truly competitive. Brown's proposal would risk altering that.
Have to be careful he doesn't inadvertantly kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Yes I am not clever enough to understand it all.
What I miss is a sensible counter argument that would then help me be feel informed and make a decision about which side I prefer. I don’t need it boring, just understandable and informative.
I know it’s a bit idealistic.
Oh right. I don’t know but Mr Brown is still seen as being a man of principle, stability and integrity which will help make Labour seem more palatable.
didn't he make most of his millions during his tenure as PM? How'd he do that?
Same with his son somehow getting all these government contracts in domains he has no real expertise in. Wild.
I don't know what his income before, during, or after his tenure as PM was. I don't know anything about the allegations you're making about his son.
Nor do I see the relevance, I just see this as an attempt to derail the conversation. What does this have to do with him being paid for rendering services to Kier's Labour party?
You took issue with him being paid consultancy fees by Labour, as if he should instead be putting out whitepapers and such for free. It's actually pretty normal to be paid for doing work.
Snapshot of _Gordon Brown says Keir Starmer's Labour government 'will be better than 1997' _ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/gordon-brown-insists-keir-starmers-33135108) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/gordon-brown-insists-keir-starmers-33135108) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Is he saying... Things... Can Only Get... (comparatively)... Better?
Unfortunately this time round it does not feel as optimistic as last time round.
Those of us who were there in 97 are now old enough that lack of optimism is merely a daily occurrence.
We are a divided nation. At least before it felt like we could unite a bit.
United in our hatred of the tories But seriously in comparison to America it feels like we’re all about to sing Kumbaya
I think that’s probably true. Also I think I have seen efforts to mitigate some of the divisions recently.
Gordon's still a bit bitter about the arrangement it seems
Let’s get the body mic on Brown again then we’ll get his true feelings
Body mix, what’s that
Body mic
You're such a bigoted person.
Problems I see ahead for Labour, which will stop any big improvements. a) They've tied themselves to keeping too many of the Tories policies and imposed their own financial straightjacket to avoid any tax and spend accusations. Breaking these won't be possible in a first term, which could allow Reform or another Right Wing party prosper. Given the Liberals are probably too much Tax and Spend, needs loosening a bit not the taps opened. b) Trump and the US election. If Trump wins he's going to cause chaos even if he doesn't actually push through with more extreme policies, it's just the way he is - a big child who throws out his toys if he doesn't get his way. For example demanding more money spent on defence or I'll pull out of NATO, Trade negotiations that amount to capitulate to US demands or we're not playing, Best we can hope for with him is that he spends 4 years being vindictive with everyone that was involved in his prosecutions and looking (unsuccessfully) to get a third term.
The financial straightjacket worries me too. They keep bleeting on about how they're going to improve NHS waiting times and education and all that jazz... but where's the money coming from?
The question is less where’s it coming from, it’s more where’s the money? They aren’t promising to spend an awful lot because the nation doesn’t have an awful lot. It’s intelligent politics and I hope to god the trend of not promising what you can’t deliver sticks. Call Keir boring if you want, he’s no liar.
That also worries me though. They say they want to stimulate the economy, but that needs investment. They want to improve NHS waiting times, but how they going to do that without the money? Every politician seems to say that they're going to just magically do better management and maybe they can, but I just can't see it happening. There are two likely outcomes, either Labour have to U-turn and increase tax or borrow more to fulfill their promises, or they'll just continue the same austerity we've been suffering under for 14 years and the economy and public services will continue to stagnate, and they'll end their 5 year term not having achieved much of anything and open the way for the same right wing populism we've seen elsewhere in Europe. I'd much prefer the former but either way is going to be a bumpy ride.
Is there anything that stops Labour from increasing taxes anyway? Would that be polling suicide?
I honestly think they'll have to. Hopefully with progressive taxes like wealth tax or land value tax.
“If” is a funny old word. IF Biden stands, Trump is laughing all the way to the Oval Office.
If the old new labour people would like labour to suceed... probably being arms length couldnt hurt.
Brown can flatter Starmer all he wants - Starmer will still ignore him.
I presume you haven't been keeping up with Labour on devolution and localism. Much of it comes from the recommendations of a commission headed by Brown.
devolution is an interesting idea implemented badly.
You’re joking arent you? Mr Brown’s been brought in as one of the big guns to help Sir Starmer win. And recently, Mr Blair. Edit: autocorrect
Labour haven't adopted [Brown's proposed method of raising new tax revenue](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/27/britain-seems-stuck-in-a-doom-loop-of-poverty-i-have-a-plan-to-raise-billions-to-address-that) though. (or, at least, they haven't publically backed it)
I like Mr Brown. None of the politics of envy or political point scoring in that article.
I generally like him to. But, I think many people are too quick to label dull sounding, wonkish policy suggetions such as the ones he's making in that article as being "technocratic" as if they're a bit of a no-brainer. There are quite a few good arguements against his proposal. E.g. like it or not the Financial Services space is one of the few ares where the UK is truly competitive. Brown's proposal would risk altering that. Have to be careful he doesn't inadvertantly kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Yes I am not clever enough to understand it all. What I miss is a sensible counter argument that would then help me be feel informed and make a decision about which side I prefer. I don’t need it boring, just understandable and informative. I know it’s a bit idealistic.
thats why hes saying this, not because he truly believes it and has nothing to gain.
That’s whooshing right over my head. Can you ELI5?
I offer you my support for money
Oh right. I don’t know but Mr Brown is still seen as being a man of principle, stability and integrity which will help make Labour seem more palatable.
for a fee. look at tony blair as well.
Man gets paid to do work. More at 11.
didn't he make most of his millions during his tenure as PM? How'd he do that? Same with his son somehow getting all these government contracts in domains he has no real expertise in. Wild.
I don't know what his income before, during, or after his tenure as PM was. I don't know anything about the allegations you're making about his son. Nor do I see the relevance, I just see this as an attempt to derail the conversation. What does this have to do with him being paid for rendering services to Kier's Labour party? You took issue with him being paid consultancy fees by Labour, as if he should instead be putting out whitepapers and such for free. It's actually pretty normal to be paid for doing work.
Pretty sure he'll keep I close, why on Earth wouldn't he?
Pepsi or Coke …. Keir Starmer wildly unpopular in his own constituency. People voting for www.andrewfeinstein.org
Why are you lying to yourself?
That's who Roger Waters is endorsing. I'm not surprised about that, but Eric Clapton? Considering his past comments, it seems... unlikely.
boomer logic