Snapshot of _EU would not rush to reopen Brexit talks with Labour, say Brussel sources | Brexit_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/01/eu-would-not-rush-to-reopen-brexit-talks-with-labour-say-brussel-sources) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/01/eu-would-not-rush-to-reopen-brexit-talks-with-labour-say-brussel-sources)
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Ofcourse this little sour face is put up now, but it’s too large a trade partner to ignore.
The rise of anti-EU(additions) is palpable from the more rightwing parties in European countries, but beside Orban being the irritating c*nt he always is, none will seriously suggest not getting the UK back in the bloc
It's sad you think that and so oblivious to reality.
What should be obvious is that while the UK is a large trade partner, it is mainly an importer of essentials and an exporter of non-essentials. That discrepancy is the leverage the EU has and the UK lacks. The UK needs the EU, but the EU doesn't need the UK. Now it's joining the CPTPP, another trade union, ending UK's chances at another EU membership.
It's also more than a bit of sour face. The article is right in regards to the sentiment regarding Brexit and the UK. It's a non-issue, a done deal, a part of history and not the future. I don't think anybody has forgotten those two fingers to Brussels in a sick homage to the victory over the Nazis or how Brits cheered when BoJo proclaimed Brexit will destroy the EU or when the UK kicked out EU citizens against what was agreed to in the WA. So many were asked "When are you getting out?".
The UK even threatened to derail EU projects and that the EU would be facing [Perfidious Albion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidious_Albion) on speed if Brexit doesn't happen. [Link](https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/uk-news/2019/04/09/brexiteers-warn-eu-will-face-perfidious-albion-on-speed-and-blast-theresa-may/) You'd have to be awfully oblivious to think anyone in the EU would seriously suggest letting *that* UK back into the bloc.
Legally, the major issue that will keep the UK out of the EU is it's refusal to accept the ECJ, and by extension, the only limited power of UK's supreme Court due to the absence of a written constitution.
As the article says, to get the level of trade access the UK wants **and needs** to the EU, the UK must offer something more significant than it already has in return.
We've got a ton of things we should be cooperating on that we aren't.
[drug patents](https://www.beckgreener.com/the-impact-of-brexit-on-pharmaceutical-patents-spcs-in-the-uk/), [trading standards](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/dec/29/were-out-of-step-how-post-brexit-uk-is-drifting-from-eu-standards), [security](https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/relations-non-eu-countries/relations-united-kingdom/eu-uk-trade-and-cooperation-agreement/eu-uk-security-information-agreement_en), [EU space programs](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-involvement-in-the-eu-space-programme), [food standards](https://blog.aibinternational.com/brexit-and-the-impacts-on-eu-food-safety)
In general this is all about which major trading bloc we want to align with, if we want to align with the US we need to drop a lot of product and trading standards, especially regarding food.
It would be in both our, and the EUs interest for a Labour government to pass domestic laws ensuring we are in alignment with the EU, if we did this we could persuade the EU to ease many trade barriers, without rejoining and without FoM
Agreed - but alignment today doesn't mean much on it's own - the EU would need guarantees of future alignment too. And that means we'd be effectively outsourcing our regulatory framework to a body we have no influence over. It may be a price worth paying for access to the EU market, but I'm not sure even Labour are ready to go that far yet.
Which proves general British public are slightly moronic, no tangible benefits of Brexit, economy in the toilet and oh, main political forces won't mention you know what
Which is a pretty useless statement without specifics.
There is a lot that can be achieved when the UK government doesn't have a political need to pick a fight and constantly be perceived to be winning the fight.
The UK won't get anything significant without accepting jurisdiction of the ecj and free movement, that's the reality. We can sign a FTA that does almost nothing for trade and growth, like all FTA but that's about it.
Fine. And I'd wager that's also fine with a majority soon (if not already). Brexit voters are dying off at a rate of 200k / year so what we voted for in 2016 is not what the electorate now sees as right for the UK
Just to be clear, you think that freedom of movement could return in the current political climate?
Goodness me I've read some takes here but it's still surprising 🤣🤣🤣
You really think jurisdiction of the ECJ will be plain sailing? Not to mention free movement (i.e. immigrants) which is like a cup of cold sick to most of the electorate at the moment.
The British public doesn't seem to get another say in the matter.
The UK government is invested in the 2016 results and won't consider the SM or a CU, while the EU is saying EU style trade requires EU style freedom of movement.
The British public is going to need to *be invested* in making a political scene about abandoning Brexit policy and keep it up until they get another vote as until then, they're still invested in what happened in 2016.
The UK is out of the EU. Strengthening trade ties is not changing that.
Would a trade deal with the US mean we're the 51st state? Or with India the 29th state?
Or maybe you believe the UK and parliament doesn't have the to sovereignty to even try to strengthen trade ties.
This is realpolitik. The EU has little interest in engaging in another round of cakeism with a British govt. Maybe tweak some agreements so Keir has something to show, but no fundamental change.
I don't disagree that there is very little good will at the moment.
But you've got to start from somewhere, if there is evidence of good progress and results from both sides then maybe it will end up somewhere more impactful in the next parliament.
A trade deal with the US would do almost nothing to promote growth. It's about 0.3% of GDP. If you're outside the single market that is what you're left with. You can negotiate small things around the edges but nothing that is going to move the needle.
That's because the US is incredibly protectionist so there is little we can offer currently.
In theory full access to the US would be absolutely huge for the UK but we will never get it.
I agree, but it's not one way, we also wouldn't accept regulatory alignment with America either. Same story with the EU. Unless we are willing to commit to the single market and all that entails.
So the explosion of bureaucracy, red tape, and trade barriers for British businesses was the plan all along?
There will be a new government with a new mandate for economic growth.
Removal of barriers can only happen if we accept a certain degree of integration with the EU, and that requires us to reverse decisions made in the name of “taking back control”. EFTA membership for example.
This is a false analogy. The EU is an integrated market of 27 countries, which functions according to a common rulebook. Common rules require a single court and overseeing body. Waving the Union Jack will not get us more favourable terms than other non-member countries who are more integrated.
How do you think disputes and oversight would be managed with a deal with the US or India? Or with existing (albeit insignificant) deals like New Zealand?
Rather than us arguing hypothetical specifics, can we at least agree that:
1. With a labour government (heck, even with the conservatives), there will be a fresh mandate to pursue economic growth
2. That includes exploring further trade agreements with our international peers - India, US, EU, and anyone else
Maybe they fail because of an impasse, or maybe they succeed.
Because US/NZ market access is far more narrow and targeted than EU market access, e.g. in the US you can sell x quantities of this specific product between these dates and if sold like this, whereas in the EU a more generalised access is given with some degree of mutual recognition. All that without even looking at services which the US/MZ doesn’t even really allow.
Unless you ate all the Brexit promises, this was the least unexpected thing about the Brexit deal.
I don't get the downvotes. What were you expecting? You moved out of a common regulatory scheme. Of course this comes with a large amount of red tape.
And this is probably partly why Brussels is saying it. They're not stupid, and they don't want to do anything to cause discomfort with what is soon to be the government of the largest friendly non-EU country.
If Starmer says "I don't want to reopen negotiations", it could have been problematic if the EU said "but we do, though". Unnecessary tension. Easier to say "yep, me too" and worry about it if things change later.
Strayed European here (apologies in advance for the blunt response):
Although I am glad for you that this will be the last week of this Tory goverment, I'm not surprised the EU is not keen on reopening talks about which Brexit the UK wants. We never wanted the UK to leave, and the years after the referendum have not contributed to a positive image change of the UK either as negotiations seemed endless and the UK governement looked indecisive at best and totally incompetent at worst. I can understand the EU is just happy that the deal is finally settled and have bigger things to worry about at the moment.
It’s in the EUs interest in these dangerous times that our relationship comes closer. That doesn’t mean reopen Brexit. But it should mean for eg helping each other on certain rules around agriculture, security and tariffs on EVs etc. Boris deal was shit and doesn’t help Britain nor the EU
Things should be smoother, we should be partners
Although I do agree closer relations would be beneficial for both, the EU is not just a set of rules from which you can pick. And if the decision is to stay out of the customs union, the UK government has to come clean what they want and how they're going to comply with EU law.
With both France and the US potentially electing batshit insane inward looking leaders whilst Russia is at the door perhaps thumbing your nose at the only other nuclear armed state that has your back is somewhat foolhardy?
Well, I am from the Netherlands so no need to tell me about electing far right nationalist politcians... My point was that it isn't clear at the moment what Labour exactly wants, except from improving (trade) relations. That sounds greats, but keep in mind that that also means you'll have to comply with some rules.
I'm hoping by becoming a more reliable partner we can rebuild some of the trust that Europe has (rightly and fairly) lost in us as a nation. We have suffered under some of the most incompetent governments of modern time but we aren't bad people. We just made some bad choices (a bit like you guys with your right wing nutters).
It is to Russia's benefit that we argue amongst ourselves and to their detriment that we become more united. There is some evidence to suggest Brexit was part of Russian foreign strategy just like getting Germany hooked on cheap gas. Whilst it was politically unpalatable to do so we all rallied around Germany to resolve this issue. Indeed our inter-connectors were flowing at full speed providing power to the continent.
Compared to the EU it is. More so in the future given current expansion goals. But sure keep doing "they need us more than we need them" if it keeps up the spirits.
Most people in the U.K. consider Brexit done and have moved on as well. Just a few bitter remainers left that keep banging on about it. You’ve almost certainly not been following out general election but rejoining the EU, or Brexit, are mentioned at all, not even the tiniest hint.
yet the actual opinion polls indicate a large appetite for some sort of change to the status quo on EU relations. Apparently not just “a few bitter remainers”.
both red and blue may still be living in 2019, but you’re right, the country has moved on and it thinks brexit is shit
My children are now denied the same opportunities I had. That's shit. That we were also lied to, specifically about not leaving the single market. That's shit. About brexit reducing our gdp by 4%. That's shit. About our standards being lowered because we don't need to align. That's shit. About us having vastly higher legal immigration than when we were in the UK. About how many high skilled Europeans left after brexit. Its shit mate.
>yet the actual opinion polls indicate a large appetite for some sort of change to the status quo on EU relations. Apparently not just “a few bitter remainers”.
'Some sort of change' is useless though, Brexit was 'some sort of change'.
Call me when there are polls on *specific* detailed issues/changes that show a clear majority. Until you have that, no politician is going to touch this stuff.
And became a complete mess when it was apparent it got a majority on a stunning lack of detail - most people would consider it a good idea to make sure the details were nailed down in advance going forward.
At which point you'll find support collapses - its easy to sell people on a high level idea they can interpret and see into what they like. Don't poll on 'would you like a closer relationship with the EU' because that's nonsense, poll on 'would you be happy for the UK to sign up to freedom of movement' 'would you be happy for the UK to be subject to ECJ rulings, superseding British law' 'would you be happy for the UK to contribute £X Billions to the EU budget' 'would you be happy for the UK to drop the pound and adopt the euro'.
On pretty much all of those issues you wouldn't get a majority, forget a strong majority. People might want 'change' but it turns out they don't want *changes*.
Actually I followed quite a bit (UK politics is fascinating for political geeks) and I noticed that. But I do also think that the relation with the EU will become important for the next UK government.
Ah ok, I follow U.K. politics but don’t pay much attention to other countries elections (bar USA), so you are ahead of me on that. Saying that France has suddenly got interesting!
Yes, we need to now improve our relationship the EU, that is for sure.
I’m sure we will return at sometime. It’s certainly not now or anytime soon. The last thing the country needs now is governments repeating the whole Brexit debate, we need to get on with sorting the country out with the situation we are in now.
Starmer wanted to do a renegotiation under the '25 review. He didn't ask, he announced. [https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-66839501](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-66839501)
PS: to clarify, that idea [wasn't received too well in Brussels](https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1882408/sir-keir-starmer-brexit-negotiations-european-union)
"oh no, I didn't like the source and will whine about that instead of looking at alternative sources from around the same time or at Sefcovic's remarks on the matter"
lol. lmao.
The reality is without rejoining the single market any deal is going to do little to promote growth. Take a supposed deal with America, it would increase GDP by 0.3-0.5% GDP or there about in the long run, it's basically a rounding error. FTA just do not do much to promote trade without joining something akin to the single market. Which isn't on offer unless we accept freedom of movement, a labour red line.
Labour will spend years negotiating some new deal, which they will call amazing, which in practice will make almost no difference at all.
Bit of a crock of shit argument really in here.
I suspect the EU will be jumping at the bit to speak with Keir.
Not only does he have a raging boner for the EU, he would gladly give up our independence to give senior labour supporters an in into the gravy train.
The EU will get a country that is currently out performing other G7 nations this year, nuclear armed country and the financial capitol of Europe.
The rest of us, will pretend we will work in the EU while just being happy we don't spend an extra 30 seconds getting our passports stamped.
The question will be what will Keir hand over on a plate to the EU just to achieve his closer integration, never mind rejoining in 10 years.
You're right, coordinating trade, economic, and regulatory policies with our neighbours is an unacceptable affront to our sovereignty.
If we give up our duplicative bureaucracy what will we have left?!??
And don't get me started on collective bargaining on the world stage... darn commies... ask OPEC how well that works.
Oh man alive, you're as deranged as those "no deal, WTO now" morons from the bad old days of 2016.
Taking into account **all** Key Economic Indices, the UK is languishing in 6th place of 7 in the G7, squeaking in a pip above Germany.
"Giving up independence" - what has that "independence" brought us?
Weakness. Tory corruption. Shit quite literally getting pumped into rivers and coastal waters again. The lowest rate of inward investment in the G20. Lack of protection. International mistrust. So-called "trade deals" that will contribute no more than 0.03% growth over each decade.
Haha, you're really delusional.
Even the article that you posted it says clearly "“It’s not that people are thinking good things about the UK, it’s not that they are thinking bad things. They are not thinking about the UK at all,” said one senior source close to the European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen"
You keep forgetting is not just about UK wanting to re-join but also if the EU 27 wants UK back. At the last count at least 3 countries will use their veto powers to stop UK from rejoin. You because they have "independence". 🙄
Snapshot of _EU would not rush to reopen Brexit talks with Labour, say Brussel sources | Brexit_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/01/eu-would-not-rush-to-reopen-brexit-talks-with-labour-say-brussel-sources) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/01/eu-would-not-rush-to-reopen-brexit-talks-with-labour-say-brussel-sources) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ofcourse this little sour face is put up now, but it’s too large a trade partner to ignore. The rise of anti-EU(additions) is palpable from the more rightwing parties in European countries, but beside Orban being the irritating c*nt he always is, none will seriously suggest not getting the UK back in the bloc
I thought we were at nothing to discuss so not in a rush seems like a softening if anything lol.
It's sad you think that and so oblivious to reality. What should be obvious is that while the UK is a large trade partner, it is mainly an importer of essentials and an exporter of non-essentials. That discrepancy is the leverage the EU has and the UK lacks. The UK needs the EU, but the EU doesn't need the UK. Now it's joining the CPTPP, another trade union, ending UK's chances at another EU membership. It's also more than a bit of sour face. The article is right in regards to the sentiment regarding Brexit and the UK. It's a non-issue, a done deal, a part of history and not the future. I don't think anybody has forgotten those two fingers to Brussels in a sick homage to the victory over the Nazis or how Brits cheered when BoJo proclaimed Brexit will destroy the EU or when the UK kicked out EU citizens against what was agreed to in the WA. So many were asked "When are you getting out?". The UK even threatened to derail EU projects and that the EU would be facing [Perfidious Albion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidious_Albion) on speed if Brexit doesn't happen. [Link](https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/uk-news/2019/04/09/brexiteers-warn-eu-will-face-perfidious-albion-on-speed-and-blast-theresa-may/) You'd have to be awfully oblivious to think anyone in the EU would seriously suggest letting *that* UK back into the bloc. Legally, the major issue that will keep the UK out of the EU is it's refusal to accept the ECJ, and by extension, the only limited power of UK's supreme Court due to the absence of a written constitution.
No need to reopen Brexit talks, that is done. What we need are forward looking trade talks.
As the article says, to get the level of trade access the UK wants **and needs** to the EU, the UK must offer something more significant than it already has in return.
We've got a ton of things we should be cooperating on that we aren't. [drug patents](https://www.beckgreener.com/the-impact-of-brexit-on-pharmaceutical-patents-spcs-in-the-uk/), [trading standards](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/dec/29/were-out-of-step-how-post-brexit-uk-is-drifting-from-eu-standards), [security](https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/relations-non-eu-countries/relations-united-kingdom/eu-uk-trade-and-cooperation-agreement/eu-uk-security-information-agreement_en), [EU space programs](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-involvement-in-the-eu-space-programme), [food standards](https://blog.aibinternational.com/brexit-and-the-impacts-on-eu-food-safety) In general this is all about which major trading bloc we want to align with, if we want to align with the US we need to drop a lot of product and trading standards, especially regarding food. It would be in both our, and the EUs interest for a Labour government to pass domestic laws ensuring we are in alignment with the EU, if we did this we could persuade the EU to ease many trade barriers, without rejoining and without FoM
Agreed - but alignment today doesn't mean much on it's own - the EU would need guarantees of future alignment too. And that means we'd be effectively outsourcing our regulatory framework to a body we have no influence over. It may be a price worth paying for access to the EU market, but I'm not sure even Labour are ready to go that far yet.
Which proves general British public are slightly moronic, no tangible benefits of Brexit, economy in the toilet and oh, main political forces won't mention you know what
Which is a pretty useless statement without specifics. There is a lot that can be achieved when the UK government doesn't have a political need to pick a fight and constantly be perceived to be winning the fight.
The UK won't get anything significant without accepting jurisdiction of the ecj and free movement, that's the reality. We can sign a FTA that does almost nothing for trade and growth, like all FTA but that's about it.
Fine. And I'd wager that's also fine with a majority soon (if not already). Brexit voters are dying off at a rate of 200k / year so what we voted for in 2016 is not what the electorate now sees as right for the UK
Just to be clear, you think that freedom of movement could return in the current political climate? Goodness me I've read some takes here but it's still surprising 🤣🤣🤣
You really think jurisdiction of the ECJ will be plain sailing? Not to mention free movement (i.e. immigrants) which is like a cup of cold sick to most of the electorate at the moment.
Sadly labour disagrees, they even put it in their manifesto.
Trade talks are also done ☑️
Trade talks are never done. The world and economy continuously changes and trade agreements need to evolve with them.
These talks just ended two or three years back and Britain got the best deal it could based on its red lines.
Red lines the british public arent invested in.
The British public doesn't seem to get another say in the matter. The UK government is invested in the 2016 results and won't consider the SM or a CU, while the EU is saying EU style trade requires EU style freedom of movement. The British public is going to need to *be invested* in making a political scene about abandoning Brexit policy and keep it up until they get another vote as until then, they're still invested in what happened in 2016.
Then that’s reopening Brexit which the first poster sees as “done”.
The UK is out of the EU. Strengthening trade ties is not changing that. Would a trade deal with the US mean we're the 51st state? Or with India the 29th state? Or maybe you believe the UK and parliament doesn't have the to sovereignty to even try to strengthen trade ties.
This is realpolitik. The EU has little interest in engaging in another round of cakeism with a British govt. Maybe tweak some agreements so Keir has something to show, but no fundamental change.
I don't disagree that there is very little good will at the moment. But you've got to start from somewhere, if there is evidence of good progress and results from both sides then maybe it will end up somewhere more impactful in the next parliament.
A trade deal with the US would do almost nothing to promote growth. It's about 0.3% of GDP. If you're outside the single market that is what you're left with. You can negotiate small things around the edges but nothing that is going to move the needle.
That's because the US is incredibly protectionist so there is little we can offer currently. In theory full access to the US would be absolutely huge for the UK but we will never get it.
I agree, but it's not one way, we also wouldn't accept regulatory alignment with America either. Same story with the EU. Unless we are willing to commit to the single market and all that entails.
I view it more as the continued evolution of trade alignment than brexit.
Me too and I hope one day a more pragmatic attitude prevails.
So the explosion of bureaucracy, red tape, and trade barriers for British businesses was the plan all along? There will be a new government with a new mandate for economic growth.
Removal of barriers can only happen if we accept a certain degree of integration with the EU, and that requires us to reverse decisions made in the name of “taking back control”. EFTA membership for example.
Does signing a trade deal with India mean we are now integrated with India?
This is a false analogy. The EU is an integrated market of 27 countries, which functions according to a common rulebook. Common rules require a single court and overseeing body. Waving the Union Jack will not get us more favourable terms than other non-member countries who are more integrated.
How do you think disputes and oversight would be managed with a deal with the US or India? Or with existing (albeit insignificant) deals like New Zealand? Rather than us arguing hypothetical specifics, can we at least agree that: 1. With a labour government (heck, even with the conservatives), there will be a fresh mandate to pursue economic growth 2. That includes exploring further trade agreements with our international peers - India, US, EU, and anyone else Maybe they fail because of an impasse, or maybe they succeed.
Because US/NZ market access is far more narrow and targeted than EU market access, e.g. in the US you can sell x quantities of this specific product between these dates and if sold like this, whereas in the EU a more generalised access is given with some degree of mutual recognition. All that without even looking at services which the US/MZ doesn’t even really allow.
Unless you ate all the Brexit promises, this was the least unexpected thing about the Brexit deal. I don't get the downvotes. What were you expecting? You moved out of a common regulatory scheme. Of course this comes with a large amount of red tape.
This is just obvious, there's little point as it's up for review in 2025 anyway.
Didn't Starmer say he won't reopen that debate so no need......
And this is probably partly why Brussels is saying it. They're not stupid, and they don't want to do anything to cause discomfort with what is soon to be the government of the largest friendly non-EU country. If Starmer says "I don't want to reopen negotiations", it could have been problematic if the EU said "but we do, though". Unnecessary tension. Easier to say "yep, me too" and worry about it if things change later.
Easier surely to have said....nothing.
Looks like the EU is playing hard to get with Labour on Brexit talks.
Strayed European here (apologies in advance for the blunt response): Although I am glad for you that this will be the last week of this Tory goverment, I'm not surprised the EU is not keen on reopening talks about which Brexit the UK wants. We never wanted the UK to leave, and the years after the referendum have not contributed to a positive image change of the UK either as negotiations seemed endless and the UK governement looked indecisive at best and totally incompetent at worst. I can understand the EU is just happy that the deal is finally settled and have bigger things to worry about at the moment.
It’s in the EUs interest in these dangerous times that our relationship comes closer. That doesn’t mean reopen Brexit. But it should mean for eg helping each other on certain rules around agriculture, security and tariffs on EVs etc. Boris deal was shit and doesn’t help Britain nor the EU Things should be smoother, we should be partners
Although I do agree closer relations would be beneficial for both, the EU is not just a set of rules from which you can pick. And if the decision is to stay out of the customs union, the UK government has to come clean what they want and how they're going to comply with EU law.
With both France and the US potentially electing batshit insane inward looking leaders whilst Russia is at the door perhaps thumbing your nose at the only other nuclear armed state that has your back is somewhat foolhardy?
Well, I am from the Netherlands so no need to tell me about electing far right nationalist politcians... My point was that it isn't clear at the moment what Labour exactly wants, except from improving (trade) relations. That sounds greats, but keep in mind that that also means you'll have to comply with some rules.
I'm hoping by becoming a more reliable partner we can rebuild some of the trust that Europe has (rightly and fairly) lost in us as a nation. We have suffered under some of the most incompetent governments of modern time but we aren't bad people. We just made some bad choices (a bit like you guys with your right wing nutters). It is to Russia's benefit that we argue amongst ourselves and to their detriment that we become more united. There is some evidence to suggest Brexit was part of Russian foreign strategy just like getting Germany hooked on cheap gas. Whilst it was politically unpalatable to do so we all rallied around Germany to resolve this issue. Indeed our inter-connectors were flowing at full speed providing power to the continent.
probably more in the UKs interest given that it's a single smallish country, hence no rush from the EU to reintegrate the problem child
With respect 65 million people and the 6th largest economy in the world isn’t a smallish country.
Compared to the EU it is. More so in the future given current expansion goals. But sure keep doing "they need us more than we need them" if it keeps up the spirits.
Most people in the U.K. consider Brexit done and have moved on as well. Just a few bitter remainers left that keep banging on about it. You’ve almost certainly not been following out general election but rejoining the EU, or Brexit, are mentioned at all, not even the tiniest hint.
yet the actual opinion polls indicate a large appetite for some sort of change to the status quo on EU relations. Apparently not just “a few bitter remainers”. both red and blue may still be living in 2019, but you’re right, the country has moved on and it thinks brexit is shit
What's fun is that the country can't agree what's shit about Brexit...
The vast majority agrees it was a mistake however.
My children are now denied the same opportunities I had. That's shit. That we were also lied to, specifically about not leaving the single market. That's shit. About brexit reducing our gdp by 4%. That's shit. About our standards being lowered because we don't need to align. That's shit. About us having vastly higher legal immigration than when we were in the UK. About how many high skilled Europeans left after brexit. Its shit mate.
>yet the actual opinion polls indicate a large appetite for some sort of change to the status quo on EU relations. Apparently not just “a few bitter remainers”. 'Some sort of change' is useless though, Brexit was 'some sort of change'. Call me when there are polls on *specific* detailed issues/changes that show a clear majority. Until you have that, no politician is going to touch this stuff.
>Brexit was 'some sort of change'. Well, and that got a majority.
And became a complete mess when it was apparent it got a majority on a stunning lack of detail - most people would consider it a good idea to make sure the details were nailed down in advance going forward. At which point you'll find support collapses - its easy to sell people on a high level idea they can interpret and see into what they like. Don't poll on 'would you like a closer relationship with the EU' because that's nonsense, poll on 'would you be happy for the UK to sign up to freedom of movement' 'would you be happy for the UK to be subject to ECJ rulings, superseding British law' 'would you be happy for the UK to contribute £X Billions to the EU budget' 'would you be happy for the UK to drop the pound and adopt the euro'. On pretty much all of those issues you wouldn't get a majority, forget a strong majority. People might want 'change' but it turns out they don't want *changes*.
Actually I followed quite a bit (UK politics is fascinating for political geeks) and I noticed that. But I do also think that the relation with the EU will become important for the next UK government.
Ah ok, I follow U.K. politics but don’t pay much attention to other countries elections (bar USA), so you are ahead of me on that. Saying that France has suddenly got interesting! Yes, we need to now improve our relationship the EU, that is for sure.
Leavers are dying at a fast rate so the tide is turning. it will only be a matter of time before we are back in, in some form.
I’m sure we will return at sometime. It’s certainly not now or anytime soon. The last thing the country needs now is governments repeating the whole Brexit debate, we need to get on with sorting the country out with the situation we are in now.
Just as well no one has asked them to then.
Starmer wanted to do a renegotiation under the '25 review. He didn't ask, he announced. [https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-66839501](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-66839501) PS: to clarify, that idea [wasn't received too well in Brussels](https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1882408/sir-keir-starmer-brexit-negotiations-european-union)
Yes, the Express is giving great sources here: "reports suggest.", "EU sources said". Apparently no-one has a name in the EU.
"oh no, I didn't like the source and will whine about that instead of looking at alternative sources from around the same time or at Sefcovic's remarks on the matter" lol. lmao.
Top comments still believing for EU bureaucrats only the money matters. lol. lmao.
The reality is without rejoining the single market any deal is going to do little to promote growth. Take a supposed deal with America, it would increase GDP by 0.3-0.5% GDP or there about in the long run, it's basically a rounding error. FTA just do not do much to promote trade without joining something akin to the single market. Which isn't on offer unless we accept freedom of movement, a labour red line. Labour will spend years negotiating some new deal, which they will call amazing, which in practice will make almost no difference at all.
Bit of a crock of shit argument really in here. I suspect the EU will be jumping at the bit to speak with Keir. Not only does he have a raging boner for the EU, he would gladly give up our independence to give senior labour supporters an in into the gravy train. The EU will get a country that is currently out performing other G7 nations this year, nuclear armed country and the financial capitol of Europe. The rest of us, will pretend we will work in the EU while just being happy we don't spend an extra 30 seconds getting our passports stamped. The question will be what will Keir hand over on a plate to the EU just to achieve his closer integration, never mind rejoining in 10 years.
You're right, coordinating trade, economic, and regulatory policies with our neighbours is an unacceptable affront to our sovereignty. If we give up our duplicative bureaucracy what will we have left?!?? And don't get me started on collective bargaining on the world stage... darn commies... ask OPEC how well that works.
"gladly give up our independence" lol Because that's worth how much GDP?
Well, it doesn't appear to have cost us anything, seeing as we were level pegging with France before Brexit, and we're still doing so now after.
Oh man alive, you're as deranged as those "no deal, WTO now" morons from the bad old days of 2016. Taking into account **all** Key Economic Indices, the UK is languishing in 6th place of 7 in the G7, squeaking in a pip above Germany. "Giving up independence" - what has that "independence" brought us? Weakness. Tory corruption. Shit quite literally getting pumped into rivers and coastal waters again. The lowest rate of inward investment in the G20. Lack of protection. International mistrust. So-called "trade deals" that will contribute no more than 0.03% growth over each decade.
What independence are we giving up exactly?
Haha, you're really delusional. Even the article that you posted it says clearly "“It’s not that people are thinking good things about the UK, it’s not that they are thinking bad things. They are not thinking about the UK at all,” said one senior source close to the European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen" You keep forgetting is not just about UK wanting to re-join but also if the EU 27 wants UK back. At the last count at least 3 countries will use their veto powers to stop UK from rejoin. You because they have "independence". 🙄