Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this post has been removed because it is not on-topic for this subreddit.
Any post that is not related to Ukraine or its current affairs is off-topic. The purpose of this community is to give space for, and amplify Ukrainian voices (or relay decisive statements from strongly supportive high-levels official from the outside world). This war has had far-reaching consequences for individuals from adjacent countries, but content that focuses on discomfort or suffering of Russians is irrelevant and belongs on communities dedicated to Russian or Eastern European politics.
Lmao there's only one person that posts in there, all the posts are from the same user for weeks, and I think I saw maybe 3 posts with over 10 likes after pages of scrolling. If those Russian clowns weren't armed with weapons they'd be nothing more than a joke.
https://www.reddit.com/report
You can send in reports here, unfortunately only specific posts/comments. Not the entire sub. I send some off anyway, hopefully Reddit deals with it.
Selective free speech. Reddit is highly inconsistent what is allowed or not. Like Facebook, Twitter etc.
I am pro free speech, allow everything. It is good for open discussions, learn, reconsider your opinion and reassure you what you think is right and wrong.
> It is good for open discussions, learn, reconsider your opinion
That doesn't work when there are other countries paying troll farms to spread disinformation. They are not interested in open discussion, learning, or reconsidering. They are just going to push an agenda. Allowing these bad faith "debaters" to continue pushing propaganda in the name of "free speech" is a huge waste of time to people who actually care and would like to talk.
Allowing everything is good in theory until a country like Russia and China weaponizes it against Western populaces. And they are doing so very successfully.
What the last decade or so has taught me with social media is there's a sizable group of people who just can't discern between propaganda and reality.
This idea that if we allow everything the good will rise to the top doesn't seem to be reality. What rises to the top is usually the worst most vile things.
Pretty much any platform right now that paints itself as "free speech, allow everything" is just a complete mess of pro-Russia and neo nazi propganda. Why do you think those platforms are not becoming more popular than the examples you gave if it's good for discussion? It's because it's very easy for these platforms to be manipulated by outside groups.
The internet, in its current state, makes your idealization of free speech impossible to achieve.
If I own an online forum to discuss needlepoint, for example, and a bunch of bots show up making up a bunch of justifications about the invasion in Ukraine and making the community more toxic and people start leaving, I'm failing to see how that "censorship" only makes things worse if I ban them.
There's this notion that we must let everyone have a voice wherever they want or else things will only get worse. Except the worst parts of the internet are where there is no censorship of any kind.
Every Reddit clone that has been created for "free speech" has failed because nobody wants to see neo nazis everywhere. That's just reality.
No. I agree that its problematic but the alternative is worse. Look at Trump creating his own Truths social media. Controlling the narrative isnt the solution. Taking down Putin and the russian troll farms might be.
Trump is a great example, though. Trump and a group of people created their own social media website and app and they should be allowed to. I'm not calling for any government ban or anything. Anyone who isn't happy with Twitter censorship is able to create their own platform. Although, Truth social apparently has their own censorship issues.
Everyone can control the narrative on their own website. You and I both can.
And if people really want an unmoderated platform, then we would see them flourish and moderated platforms die off.
Trump does it so its easier to brainwash, push his own agendas, ban everyone who disagrees and counters and even more access to data than Facebook has. And then delivers skewed information as news. He is not a good example lol. He is the spawn of Putin.
You need to give people the ability to disagree with you if you want freedom of speech and democracy.
The issues with banning things you don't likely nearly always expands on what needs banning & then next thing you know your site is like Soviet Russia.
I've always found the best way to counter something you don't like is disproving & countering the points they make with FACTS.
The more you ban it the more people flock to it.
>then next thing you know your site is like Soviet Russia
Pretty much every website has a TOS and it hasn't led to them being Soviet Union. Sites like Facebook do (or don't do) the bare minimum and you still see scam ads everywhere and a bunch of misinformation. It doesn't seem to be like some inevitable slope.
And even if it did become the Soviet Union, I'm not advocating for the government to ban everything. You can always make a new site on the internet.
>I've always found the best way to counter something you don't like is
disproving & countering the points they make with FACTS. The more
you ban it the more people flock to it.
Flat Earthers aren't banned anywhere as far as I know and their number is only growing. It used to be satirical now there's channel after channel of nutjobs promoting it. And no amount of facts counter it. They just dig in deeper if you try to counter them with facts.
And that's one of the more harmless conspiracies. The stuff China and Russia push is just crazy. It's like flat earth on meth.
But Reddit isn't the site about needlepoint, it is a site about everything. And, as I understood, it was a separate subreddit, so you won't see it until you actively try to.
Free speech is nice, education is nice too.
You missed my point though. What I described in my example was censorship by your definition. I'm asking how that made my community worse off?
Also Reddit is just an another privately owned website just like my hypothetical needlepoint forum. And their TOS makes it clear that Reddit is not a site for unmoderated free speech.
You would have to reeducate people, though, because most people aren't looking for "free speech unmoderated content" unless they are doing illicit things like child porn. Most communities want and approve of some kind of moderation. And they know if the community becomes too toxic, most people will leave. People don't want unmoderated communities. Otherwise Reddit would have been replaced a long time ago.
There is a difference between limiting the theme range (conception of offtop) and censorship. Talking about war on the needlepoint site is the obvious offtop and may be removed. But muting one point of view on the war on the war site is censorship.
Well, anyway: my English isn't good enough to continue. And I think I already expressed my idea in the best way I am able to.
Yes, even me, because it is an Ukrainian themed sub, with a clear purpose and it is not dialog with Ruzzia. :)
If I get von reddit Admins a temp ban, because I called Orcs in this sub the "r word", wtf I had to ask what that even meant, you're infringing on my right of free speech.
Germany found this out YEARSSSSSSS ago... they have been ridiculously strict on anything with NAZI imagery for example completely banning it in games, TV, and films... they have one of the largest concentration of neo NAZIS in Europe.
Part of education is teaching the truth, and facts.
Allowing people to spread propaganda and harmful disinformation is a direct counter to education. Censoring lies is part of education.
I don't care if "good" rises on top. There are many things, based on culture and heritage that is interpreted differently. Good things are considered bad and vice versa, based on the perspective and both can be correct.
Education, experience and through that, developed resilience is the key, not restriction of speech.
If the West crumbles because of the opinion and propaganda of the east, we are weak and deserve it.
>If the West crumbles because of the opinion and propaganda of the east, we are weak and deserve it.
This is a horrible take. "If foreign countries use social media to destroy us then we deserve to be destroyed." No thanks. I'd rather not have my society destroyed in the name of giving Chinese or Russian bots a voice.
And it's not like they are stronger society-wise. It's just that they have put a lot of effort into making sure these same things that they do to us cannot be done to them.
And my point is that unless you can actually find a way to prevent it from being weaponized, this idea that if we just allow all the voices we will have a more fair online community will not be reality. It will be whoever puts the most governmental or corporate resources toward what kind of speech they want will have their speech at the top.
It's kind of like that already but doing away with websites having control over the content they allow isn't going to make it better, just worse.
Once there were a bunch of libertarians who tried to create the perfect Randian objectivist rule- and gubmint-free utopia. It was going OK... until the bears started coming over and fucking shit up, and people started lighting shit on fire and raping everyone because there weren't no law against it.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling
https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project
Now, does that story have a moral?
For people like pedophiles are in every country I know laws in place.
The freedom of speech for Nazi correlated topics is in some countries restricted, like mine. Plus, what in social media is often deemed as Nazi isn't it at all. It's often a political spectrum some don't like and calling someone Nazi is the easiest solution.
If you (not you in particular) hate me because I am from German / Italian heritage it is absolutely OK for me, I would simply ask: Why so? Maybe there's a good reason for you, let's talk about it. If you're just a scumbag, I just ignore you and move on. Society will teach you otherwise , or you're going nowhere. Social Media is not real life!
I mean how narrow minded are you? Banning NAZIS gooood but then completely allowing the other side of the same coin self proclaimed communists to spread their propaganda... both are as bad as each other by banning one you are taking the side of the other.
Almost all sane countries have laws against hate speech and discrimination. Just because we ban Nazi's doesn't mean the opposite side surges. I looked it up for you, there is still a communnist part in my country, but they got less than 5000 vote 20 years ago. It's obviously an extremist ideology party but they aren't calling for the heads of Jews.
The problem with free speech is that it has always had its limits according to the US constitution and other nations have similar limitations. Those limitations are necessary to maintain peace for civilized society to function. Not every view is valid or worthy of endless public broadcasting. Sometimes you just have to shut down any attempt to legitimize ideologies from being spread. Ideologies like fascism, racism, and anything that encourages rebellion are just not worthy of air time and SHOULD be prosecuted for their potential to disrupt the peace.
This is why I loathe the argument that news is not news unless they entertain the "other side" of every argument. No, some arguments are treasonous, inflammatory, or just bat-shit crazy.
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Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this post has been removed because it is not on-topic for this subreddit. Any post that is not related to Ukraine or its current affairs is off-topic. The purpose of this community is to give space for, and amplify Ukrainian voices (or relay decisive statements from strongly supportive high-levels official from the outside world). This war has had far-reaching consequences for individuals from adjacent countries, but content that focuses on discomfort or suffering of Russians is irrelevant and belongs on communities dedicated to Russian or Eastern European politics.
I dunno, same vibe as neo-Nazis in my opinion though Apparently supporting genocide and war crimes is a okay on Reddit
Troll fodder page! Sweet! Time for me to get some well-deserved negative karma for a good cause. 
Godspeed and happy hunting
Take a few for the team 😂
Youtube as well..... one might have thought Google would have chosen a side......Reddit the same..... guess not.
Lmao there's only one person that posts in there, all the posts are from the same user for weeks, and I think I saw maybe 3 posts with over 10 likes after pages of scrolling. If those Russian clowns weren't armed with weapons they'd be nothing more than a joke.
https://www.reddit.com/report You can send in reports here, unfortunately only specific posts/comments. Not the entire sub. I send some off anyway, hopefully Reddit deals with it.
Selective free speech. Reddit is highly inconsistent what is allowed or not. Like Facebook, Twitter etc. I am pro free speech, allow everything. It is good for open discussions, learn, reconsider your opinion and reassure you what you think is right and wrong.
> It is good for open discussions, learn, reconsider your opinion That doesn't work when there are other countries paying troll farms to spread disinformation. They are not interested in open discussion, learning, or reconsidering. They are just going to push an agenda. Allowing these bad faith "debaters" to continue pushing propaganda in the name of "free speech" is a huge waste of time to people who actually care and would like to talk.
Allowing everything is good in theory until a country like Russia and China weaponizes it against Western populaces. And they are doing so very successfully. What the last decade or so has taught me with social media is there's a sizable group of people who just can't discern between propaganda and reality. This idea that if we allow everything the good will rise to the top doesn't seem to be reality. What rises to the top is usually the worst most vile things. Pretty much any platform right now that paints itself as "free speech, allow everything" is just a complete mess of pro-Russia and neo nazi propganda. Why do you think those platforms are not becoming more popular than the examples you gave if it's good for discussion? It's because it's very easy for these platforms to be manipulated by outside groups. The internet, in its current state, makes your idealization of free speech impossible to achieve.
Education is the answer. Censorship will only make things worse.
If I own an online forum to discuss needlepoint, for example, and a bunch of bots show up making up a bunch of justifications about the invasion in Ukraine and making the community more toxic and people start leaving, I'm failing to see how that "censorship" only makes things worse if I ban them. There's this notion that we must let everyone have a voice wherever they want or else things will only get worse. Except the worst parts of the internet are where there is no censorship of any kind. Every Reddit clone that has been created for "free speech" has failed because nobody wants to see neo nazis everywhere. That's just reality.
No. I agree that its problematic but the alternative is worse. Look at Trump creating his own Truths social media. Controlling the narrative isnt the solution. Taking down Putin and the russian troll farms might be.
Trump is a great example, though. Trump and a group of people created their own social media website and app and they should be allowed to. I'm not calling for any government ban or anything. Anyone who isn't happy with Twitter censorship is able to create their own platform. Although, Truth social apparently has their own censorship issues. Everyone can control the narrative on their own website. You and I both can. And if people really want an unmoderated platform, then we would see them flourish and moderated platforms die off.
Trump does it so its easier to brainwash, push his own agendas, ban everyone who disagrees and counters and even more access to data than Facebook has. And then delivers skewed information as news. He is not a good example lol. He is the spawn of Putin. You need to give people the ability to disagree with you if you want freedom of speech and democracy.
Exactly. They are hypocrites as many people have been banned on "Truth" Social for criticism of Trump or posting about the Jan 6th hearings.
The issues with banning things you don't likely nearly always expands on what needs banning & then next thing you know your site is like Soviet Russia. I've always found the best way to counter something you don't like is disproving & countering the points they make with FACTS. The more you ban it the more people flock to it.
>then next thing you know your site is like Soviet Russia Pretty much every website has a TOS and it hasn't led to them being Soviet Union. Sites like Facebook do (or don't do) the bare minimum and you still see scam ads everywhere and a bunch of misinformation. It doesn't seem to be like some inevitable slope. And even if it did become the Soviet Union, I'm not advocating for the government to ban everything. You can always make a new site on the internet. >I've always found the best way to counter something you don't like is disproving & countering the points they make with FACTS. The more you ban it the more people flock to it. Flat Earthers aren't banned anywhere as far as I know and their number is only growing. It used to be satirical now there's channel after channel of nutjobs promoting it. And no amount of facts counter it. They just dig in deeper if you try to counter them with facts. And that's one of the more harmless conspiracies. The stuff China and Russia push is just crazy. It's like flat earth on meth.
But Reddit isn't the site about needlepoint, it is a site about everything. And, as I understood, it was a separate subreddit, so you won't see it until you actively try to. Free speech is nice, education is nice too.
You missed my point though. What I described in my example was censorship by your definition. I'm asking how that made my community worse off? Also Reddit is just an another privately owned website just like my hypothetical needlepoint forum. And their TOS makes it clear that Reddit is not a site for unmoderated free speech. You would have to reeducate people, though, because most people aren't looking for "free speech unmoderated content" unless they are doing illicit things like child porn. Most communities want and approve of some kind of moderation. And they know if the community becomes too toxic, most people will leave. People don't want unmoderated communities. Otherwise Reddit would have been replaced a long time ago.
There is a difference between limiting the theme range (conception of offtop) and censorship. Talking about war on the needlepoint site is the obvious offtop and may be removed. But muting one point of view on the war on the war site is censorship. Well, anyway: my English isn't good enough to continue. And I think I already expressed my idea in the best way I am able to.
Fair enough. Although I would say most people here would be in favor of banning obvious trolls spreading pro-Russia conspiracies on this subreddit.
Yes, even me, because it is an Ukrainian themed sub, with a clear purpose and it is not dialog with Ruzzia. :) If I get von reddit Admins a temp ban, because I called Orcs in this sub the "r word", wtf I had to ask what that even meant, you're infringing on my right of free speech.
Germany found this out YEARSSSSSSS ago... they have been ridiculously strict on anything with NAZI imagery for example completely banning it in games, TV, and films... they have one of the largest concentration of neo NAZIS in Europe.
Part of education is teaching the truth, and facts. Allowing people to spread propaganda and harmful disinformation is a direct counter to education. Censoring lies is part of education.
Fascism has no rights.
You can't fight fascism with fascism. That wouldn't be fighting but replacing or something.
right. You just shoot them no talking
I don't care if "good" rises on top. There are many things, based on culture and heritage that is interpreted differently. Good things are considered bad and vice versa, based on the perspective and both can be correct. Education, experience and through that, developed resilience is the key, not restriction of speech. If the West crumbles because of the opinion and propaganda of the east, we are weak and deserve it.
>If the West crumbles because of the opinion and propaganda of the east, we are weak and deserve it. This is a horrible take. "If foreign countries use social media to destroy us then we deserve to be destroyed." No thanks. I'd rather not have my society destroyed in the name of giving Chinese or Russian bots a voice. And it's not like they are stronger society-wise. It's just that they have put a lot of effort into making sure these same things that they do to us cannot be done to them. And my point is that unless you can actually find a way to prevent it from being weaponized, this idea that if we just allow all the voices we will have a more fair online community will not be reality. It will be whoever puts the most governmental or corporate resources toward what kind of speech they want will have their speech at the top. It's kind of like that already but doing away with websites having control over the content they allow isn't going to make it better, just worse.
If you allow every free speech you get nazi's (as demonstrated here) and pedophiles. You need some rules to keep these scumbags in.
Once there were a bunch of libertarians who tried to create the perfect Randian objectivist rule- and gubmint-free utopia. It was going OK... until the bears started coming over and fucking shit up, and people started lighting shit on fire and raping everyone because there weren't no law against it. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project Now, does that story have a moral?
For people like pedophiles are in every country I know laws in place. The freedom of speech for Nazi correlated topics is in some countries restricted, like mine. Plus, what in social media is often deemed as Nazi isn't it at all. It's often a political spectrum some don't like and calling someone Nazi is the easiest solution. If you (not you in particular) hate me because I am from German / Italian heritage it is absolutely OK for me, I would simply ask: Why so? Maybe there's a good reason for you, let's talk about it. If you're just a scumbag, I just ignore you and move on. Society will teach you otherwise , or you're going nowhere. Social Media is not real life!
I mean how narrow minded are you? Banning NAZIS gooood but then completely allowing the other side of the same coin self proclaimed communists to spread their propaganda... both are as bad as each other by banning one you are taking the side of the other.
Almost all sane countries have laws against hate speech and discrimination. Just because we ban Nazi's doesn't mean the opposite side surges. I looked it up for you, there is still a communnist part in my country, but they got less than 5000 vote 20 years ago. It's obviously an extremist ideology party but they aren't calling for the heads of Jews.
The problem with free speech is that it has always had its limits according to the US constitution and other nations have similar limitations. Those limitations are necessary to maintain peace for civilized society to function. Not every view is valid or worthy of endless public broadcasting. Sometimes you just have to shut down any attempt to legitimize ideologies from being spread. Ideologies like fascism, racism, and anything that encourages rebellion are just not worthy of air time and SHOULD be prosecuted for their potential to disrupt the peace. This is why I loathe the argument that news is not news unless they entertain the "other side" of every argument. No, some arguments are treasonous, inflammatory, or just bat-shit crazy.
Importantly. REDDIT IS OWNED BY RUZZIAS HOMIE. So… yeah.
Because reddit is undermined by Russian bots and Chinese spies...
Who cares , keep a record of all the stupid shit they say.
Well, at least the guy in the picture probably IS dead…..
What reason do you prefer? Free speech or that Reddit has Chinese stakeholders?
Dont waste your time with trolls/idiots. :-)
Well said.
Life wouldn't be fun if we can't make fun of dumbasses.
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Ya its not like reddit has the right to freedom of speech. Take all those down.
Cause we are NOT like fucking Russia. Censorship sucks ass