This, but unironically.
You were indeed presented the Epitaph as a riddle to try to solve yourself. Why else do you think we got half a chapter dedicated to all the cousins trying to solve it on the beach? Every scene involving characters discussing the mystery is an opportunity for you, the player, to do the same while the characters give you ideas and information.
if a culprit start killing your family and he say : "solve this little riddle and i will spare you", would you really believe it ?
>Basically everything went exactly how it was laid out in the first letter - everyone died as it was described openly and the culprit won.
the victims did try to put some resistance right ? and since it didn't work you should try to figure out why.
My understanding of the story was that the grandfather made a deal with the witch, granting him wealth, and in exchange by the time he dies the witch gets everything back, including his family lives and his soul. But he made her accept the option for his relative to save everyone and the gold by solving the riddle and completing the quest. So yes I was absolutely expecting the killings to stop if they solve the riddle, it is a part of the epitaph.
Well if that's what you believe is true, why not re affirm your beliefs by seeing if that's exactly how it plays out in the next episodes. Ask yourself whether the culprit truly is noble enough to stop or whether the family truly gets a happy ending and whether the epitaph is truly the be all end all. You're on the right path as the game expects you to believe and will throw you down multiple paths and see if what you believe in is truly the truth. I'd heavily recomend moving forward and seeing whether the plot is truly as you've deciphered it to be.
There's this famous novel called And Then There Were None by Agatha Christie. At the end of the novel, all the characters are dead. And yet, the killer is revealed to have been one of them. So, the fact that they are all dead at the end means nothing.
I meant that at the very end of episode one there were 4 characters left (George, Jessica, Battler, Maria) and then there was the unknown fifth person who killed them, all the other 14 characters were already dead so it's gotta be some 19th party.
That's funny because at the end of And Then There Were None, two characters remain alive. One of them is sure that the other one must be the killer just because everyone else is dead. So, this character kills them, and then, commits suicide by hanging themselves.
The interesting part is that the killer later comes into the room to lift up the chair that had been used in the suicide. And this person is not some unknown party.
the whole point of the story is that magic don't exist, this is a mystery, not a fantasy.
furthermore, in a later episode, you will be shown what happen when someone solve the epitaph : nothing particular.
how could you possibly feel like you just watched all five seasons of snk when you just read the first of eight episodes?
it's more like if the first season of snk had just been the characters sitting in their sad little city walls and hopelessly trying to fight a horde of titans while understanding basically nothing about them-- which is *exactly* how the first season plays out, if you remember
I know I played only part of the game, but this current timeline has concluded, they really died right? I played three Higurashi games and each one had new story with recycled characters with some changes, I really don't buy into this, immersion is completely lost for me.
If so then you stopped way too early and completely missed the main driving force of When They Cry. Both Higurashi and Umineko have (completely different) reasons behind the time loops and the point of them is to provide clues for the audience (and someone else as you'll see if you decide to continue with Ep 2).
Okay things restart, but there are also a lot of differences. Now what can you do with that? Maybe there are rules that govern the mystery and link the chapters/episodes together?
The thing with Umineko, and to a lesser degree Higurashi, is that you get out of it as much as you put into it. From your comments you seem to just put it to "The characters died and then came back. So what?". If you do that then go ahead, that's completely fine. We all enjoy different things, you do you.
But if you actually want to try to experience Umineko the way many of us here in the subreddit have then put the time and engagement into it. Start thinking about why the author did certain things, why is he writing the way he does, why is he describing the things he does. The thing with Umineko that makes many of us consider it a (flawed) Masterpiece is that, despite how it might look at a first read through, there are barely any unimportant scenes (if there are any at all). I can still reread the series and find stuff I've completely missed.
But going back to your comment about the characters dying and coming back. Then if you're having difficulties with that then think about the advantages with that type of time loops. You have the gravitas of characters dying and the reactions from their loved ones grieving. But you also have the advantage of still learning more about them in other loops when they might still be alive and are personally affected by the events.
That's one of the things I love about When They Cry and series with similar time loop mechanics such as Re: Zero.
Just as a side, I saw Re:Zero First and thought.. What a cool concept. Then I found Higu/WTC later and was blown away with their execution of the time loops.
Show me time loops outside these two, and I'll prob hate on them lol.
It's on my steam wishlist! The only other VN outside WTC i've even looked at, but don't know a ton about it. Will def get into it one day, still finishing Umi
Thank you for your elaborate answer, I think I’ll continue playing, although Ill try to set up this mod adding voice acting, btw does each episode take the same amount of time? I spent 15 hours on episode one..
They are mostly pretty similar in length. The exceptions being episode 4, 7 and 8 with 4 and 8 being longer and 7 being shorter. Depending how you read adding voice acting might make it longer but I definitely suggest doing that, it's a S-tier cast and they improve on the story in an incredible way.
But other than that just grab a pen, a notebook and enjoy. I truly hope you'll enjoy ep 2 and the rest of the story. But if not then that's okay, we all enjoy different things.
this is one of those stories that really can't be judged from such a partial viewing, on account of how much of the early part is dedicated entirely to setup and foreshadowing. from my perspective, i can't even tell *what* you're not buying into
You may want to finish Higu before jumping to Umi, as one is the sequel to the other.
As I said in my other comment and see now, Having seen/read Higurashi to the point of understanding would make a significant difference in how you experience umi.
Did you read a lot of stories that continue after literally all characters have died? Cause I haven't. This might have been silly of me to make this post before playing next episode but I presumed it's the same way as Higurashi games, each game is it's own story with recycled locations and characters, so it doesn't feel like the same story to me.
Higurashi isn't that either though, it's one singular story. The story appearing to start over again is a key part of the narrative, and you're meant to reason about why the events play out differently.
Not a lot, but I have read a few.
And, why would you think that all the stories are separate from each other? Didn't you see that the cast of Higurashi in tea parties uses information from one story to try to figure out what happened in the other ones?
Would probably suggest reading chapter 2 as that will be more in-line with the type of story this will be.
There are 8 chapters and several interludes between chapters, each will reveal more information and give you something new to think about.
First four are questions chapters, later four are “answers”, but by the end of the series it’ll still be on you to piece everything together and determine what is real or what is fabricated.
It’s more like you just saw the titan breaking the wall and nothing else. I can totally understand your frustration but I’d say try to get to at least half of episode 2 and then drop it if it is not your thing.
But honestly the comparison with AoT is kinda weird because the first part of the show is precisely “titan devouring people while characters run around speculating on the origins of titans” — then come the others seasons and things move foreword: if AoT solved the mystery in the first 3 episodes would you really call that a good mystery?
I figured this storyline has ended because everyone died, and next episodes are gonna be their own separate stories, with recycled character sprites and locations, like they did in Higurashi, but from what people told me here I was mistaken haha. I guess it wasn't completely useless of me to make this post though cause now Im encouraged to keep on playing.
You do you: if you end up not liking it you can drop it and nobody should blame you for it. It is however really unfortunate that you didn’t like Higurashi because I really think that it is really well written and I (as probably all of us here) am emotionally attached and for a reason, the loop however is a core feature of the story so there is little to do about it, I just hope that maybe Umineko will get you to come back at it and give it another chance.
Umineko on the other end is indeed a different beast and you should probably get acquainted to its main feature before dropping it. I would however really be curious, in case you end up dropping it, to know what you would have not liked about it.
Whatever you decide to do I really do believe that is never wrong to ask questions.
Enjoy!
>most of episode 1 is them arguing about whether the culprit is a human or not, which didn't help them in any way, didn't lead to any solution
This is indeed what the game is about. For you to think about whether magic is real or not, whether a witch did it or not, and, in either case, figure out what's going on and how things happened the way they did.
You say that everything happened as "predicted", but stop before asking yourself "why did everything go that way?" Battler himself brings up the fact that it makes no sense for the "culprit" to openly showcase the crimes, since it brings attention to the "culprit", yet they did. Why? That's for you to think about. If something happens, think about why it happened and what it means. You're not supposed to think "Well, I guess that just happened" and stop at that.
The characters sat around and discussed these things because *you, the player,* are supposed to think about these things as well.
Chapter 2 is fucking wild, but if Chapter 1 didn't grab you then who's to say you'll agree on chapter 2.
I mean, One literally is the prologue, it's setting the scene. if you watched or read Higurashi, think about how it's first arc plays out. This is no different.
"Played out exactly as predicted" - That was kinda the point. Besides, without seeing a witch, why would you believe one exists? Why would you solve the riddle, if witches aren't real then it would likely be someone manipulating them to find the gold for the culprit, only to come in and kill everyone to take the gold. That's exactly how it would play out IRL so it's a totally rational position for our characters to take.
Here’s a little fuel for the fire: the witch says she was responsible for killing the family in the tea party. She demonstrates powerful magic for you.
But isn’t the ritual supposed to revive the witch? If that’s the case, how does it make sense for it to be her to be doing the ritual?
That’s a good point, however I thought the ritual was supposed to revive her physical body, but the whole time she was present in the mansion as some etheric entity, whose presence was acknowledged by various people, both during the story events and before, and the whole thing was a deal between Kinzo and the witch so that made sense to me 🤔it was her doing the killing
In my opinion, yes. If you wish to give a try to episode 2, go ahead. Since it's very different, will make or break for you.
Don't forget to read the tea party and the ???? Before episode 2. Don't unlock it manually.
You... read one eighth of the story and... you're upset that the most climactic parts of the story haven't happened yet...?
Have you... read a series before? *Any* series?
> protagonist didnt try to solve the riddle That’s your job. It’s a mystery novel.
Sure, I'll find the Kinzo's hidden gold myself, brb
This, but unironically. You were indeed presented the Epitaph as a riddle to try to solve yourself. Why else do you think we got half a chapter dedicated to all the cousins trying to solve it on the beach? Every scene involving characters discussing the mystery is an opportunity for you, the player, to do the same while the characters give you ideas and information.
Oh you sweet child of summer, you're only just done reading the prologue...
if a culprit start killing your family and he say : "solve this little riddle and i will spare you", would you really believe it ? >Basically everything went exactly how it was laid out in the first letter - everyone died as it was described openly and the culprit won. the victims did try to put some resistance right ? and since it didn't work you should try to figure out why.
My understanding of the story was that the grandfather made a deal with the witch, granting him wealth, and in exchange by the time he dies the witch gets everything back, including his family lives and his soul. But he made her accept the option for his relative to save everyone and the gold by solving the riddle and completing the quest. So yes I was absolutely expecting the killings to stop if they solve the riddle, it is a part of the epitaph.
Well if that's what you believe is true, why not re affirm your beliefs by seeing if that's exactly how it plays out in the next episodes. Ask yourself whether the culprit truly is noble enough to stop or whether the family truly gets a happy ending and whether the epitaph is truly the be all end all. You're on the right path as the game expects you to believe and will throw you down multiple paths and see if what you believe in is truly the truth. I'd heavily recomend moving forward and seeing whether the plot is truly as you've deciphered it to be.
You don't actually believe that Kinzo got his gold from a witch, do you? Don't we all know that witches don't exist?
Yes I do, makes no sense how one of the 18 characters could've been capable of all the murders, especially how in the end they were all dead.
There's this famous novel called And Then There Were None by Agatha Christie. At the end of the novel, all the characters are dead. And yet, the killer is revealed to have been one of them. So, the fact that they are all dead at the end means nothing.
I meant that at the very end of episode one there were 4 characters left (George, Jessica, Battler, Maria) and then there was the unknown fifth person who killed them, all the other 14 characters were already dead so it's gotta be some 19th party.
That's funny because at the end of And Then There Were None, two characters remain alive. One of them is sure that the other one must be the killer just because everyone else is dead. So, this character kills them, and then, commits suicide by hanging themselves. The interesting part is that the killer later comes into the room to lift up the chair that had been used in the suicide. And this person is not some unknown party.
the whole point of the story is that magic don't exist, this is a mystery, not a fantasy. furthermore, in a later episode, you will be shown what happen when someone solve the epitaph : nothing particular.
no that's not the point AT ALL
i know you mean >!"magic"!< in a different way but a first time reader mean it literally (he is comparing it with "attack on titan" seriously... )
Yes be frustrated by the characters not doing what you want, use that frustrstiom as fuel and DIY yourself a solution, you're a player here.
There isn't much 'playing' I can do if the only interaction with the game is left mouse click to load next dialog line lol
You play with the story you make hypothesis, predictiond and test them against the game
Bro never read a book
Oh, but there is. As a reader, you are given the chance to solve the riddles before the game tells you the answer. That's how riddle books work.
how could you possibly feel like you just watched all five seasons of snk when you just read the first of eight episodes? it's more like if the first season of snk had just been the characters sitting in their sad little city walls and hopelessly trying to fight a horde of titans while understanding basically nothing about them-- which is *exactly* how the first season plays out, if you remember
I know I played only part of the game, but this current timeline has concluded, they really died right? I played three Higurashi games and each one had new story with recycled characters with some changes, I really don't buy into this, immersion is completely lost for me.
If so then you stopped way too early and completely missed the main driving force of When They Cry. Both Higurashi and Umineko have (completely different) reasons behind the time loops and the point of them is to provide clues for the audience (and someone else as you'll see if you decide to continue with Ep 2). Okay things restart, but there are also a lot of differences. Now what can you do with that? Maybe there are rules that govern the mystery and link the chapters/episodes together? The thing with Umineko, and to a lesser degree Higurashi, is that you get out of it as much as you put into it. From your comments you seem to just put it to "The characters died and then came back. So what?". If you do that then go ahead, that's completely fine. We all enjoy different things, you do you. But if you actually want to try to experience Umineko the way many of us here in the subreddit have then put the time and engagement into it. Start thinking about why the author did certain things, why is he writing the way he does, why is he describing the things he does. The thing with Umineko that makes many of us consider it a (flawed) Masterpiece is that, despite how it might look at a first read through, there are barely any unimportant scenes (if there are any at all). I can still reread the series and find stuff I've completely missed. But going back to your comment about the characters dying and coming back. Then if you're having difficulties with that then think about the advantages with that type of time loops. You have the gravitas of characters dying and the reactions from their loved ones grieving. But you also have the advantage of still learning more about them in other loops when they might still be alive and are personally affected by the events. That's one of the things I love about When They Cry and series with similar time loop mechanics such as Re: Zero.
Just as a side, I saw Re:Zero First and thought.. What a cool concept. Then I found Higu/WTC later and was blown away with their execution of the time loops. Show me time loops outside these two, and I'll prob hate on them lol.
There is Stein's Gate which I've personally not been able to really get into but I need to try it again one of these days.
It's on my steam wishlist! The only other VN outside WTC i've even looked at, but don't know a ton about it. Will def get into it one day, still finishing Umi
Never stop thinking and enjoy!
Thank you for your elaborate answer, I think I’ll continue playing, although Ill try to set up this mod adding voice acting, btw does each episode take the same amount of time? I spent 15 hours on episode one..
They are mostly pretty similar in length. The exceptions being episode 4, 7 and 8 with 4 and 8 being longer and 7 being shorter. Depending how you read adding voice acting might make it longer but I definitely suggest doing that, it's a S-tier cast and they improve on the story in an incredible way. But other than that just grab a pen, a notebook and enjoy. I truly hope you'll enjoy ep 2 and the rest of the story. But if not then that's okay, we all enjoy different things.
Only 3 chapters? That's NOT ENOUGH. That's like watching a third of a movie.
There's no "time loops" in Umineko You'd know that if you'd make it to the 2nd episode before making assumptions
Yeah seems like I was mistaken with that, you guys encouraged me to keep on playing haha
this is one of those stories that really can't be judged from such a partial viewing, on account of how much of the early part is dedicated entirely to setup and foreshadowing. from my perspective, i can't even tell *what* you're not buying into
You may want to finish Higu before jumping to Umi, as one is the sequel to the other. As I said in my other comment and see now, Having seen/read Higurashi to the point of understanding would make a significant difference in how you experience umi.
this right here is a sin against Oyashiro-sama
Never heard of a murder mystery being resolved in the first of 8 chapters. You do know that the beginning of a story is just that, right?
Did you read a lot of stories that continue after literally all characters have died? Cause I haven't. This might have been silly of me to make this post before playing next episode but I presumed it's the same way as Higurashi games, each game is it's own story with recycled locations and characters, so it doesn't feel like the same story to me.
Higurashi isn't that either though, it's one singular story. The story appearing to start over again is a key part of the narrative, and you're meant to reason about why the events play out differently.
Not a lot, but I have read a few. And, why would you think that all the stories are separate from each other? Didn't you see that the cast of Higurashi in tea parties uses information from one story to try to figure out what happened in the other ones?
Would probably suggest reading chapter 2 as that will be more in-line with the type of story this will be. There are 8 chapters and several interludes between chapters, each will reveal more information and give you something new to think about. First four are questions chapters, later four are “answers”, but by the end of the series it’ll still be on you to piece everything together and determine what is real or what is fabricated.
It's episode 1 for a reason, you are not gonna get answers that soon.
It’s more like you just saw the titan breaking the wall and nothing else. I can totally understand your frustration but I’d say try to get to at least half of episode 2 and then drop it if it is not your thing. But honestly the comparison with AoT is kinda weird because the first part of the show is precisely “titan devouring people while characters run around speculating on the origins of titans” — then come the others seasons and things move foreword: if AoT solved the mystery in the first 3 episodes would you really call that a good mystery?
Actually, it's like saying you watched the first episode.
I figured this storyline has ended because everyone died, and next episodes are gonna be their own separate stories, with recycled character sprites and locations, like they did in Higurashi, but from what people told me here I was mistaken haha. I guess it wasn't completely useless of me to make this post though cause now Im encouraged to keep on playing.
You do you: if you end up not liking it you can drop it and nobody should blame you for it. It is however really unfortunate that you didn’t like Higurashi because I really think that it is really well written and I (as probably all of us here) am emotionally attached and for a reason, the loop however is a core feature of the story so there is little to do about it, I just hope that maybe Umineko will get you to come back at it and give it another chance. Umineko on the other end is indeed a different beast and you should probably get acquainted to its main feature before dropping it. I would however really be curious, in case you end up dropping it, to know what you would have not liked about it. Whatever you decide to do I really do believe that is never wrong to ask questions. Enjoy!
>most of episode 1 is them arguing about whether the culprit is a human or not, which didn't help them in any way, didn't lead to any solution This is indeed what the game is about. For you to think about whether magic is real or not, whether a witch did it or not, and, in either case, figure out what's going on and how things happened the way they did. You say that everything happened as "predicted", but stop before asking yourself "why did everything go that way?" Battler himself brings up the fact that it makes no sense for the "culprit" to openly showcase the crimes, since it brings attention to the "culprit", yet they did. Why? That's for you to think about. If something happens, think about why it happened and what it means. You're not supposed to think "Well, I guess that just happened" and stop at that. The characters sat around and discussed these things because *you, the player,* are supposed to think about these things as well.
Have you finished the tea party and ??? sections?
Yes I did
Chapter 2 is fucking wild, but if Chapter 1 didn't grab you then who's to say you'll agree on chapter 2. I mean, One literally is the prologue, it's setting the scene. if you watched or read Higurashi, think about how it's first arc plays out. This is no different. "Played out exactly as predicted" - That was kinda the point. Besides, without seeing a witch, why would you believe one exists? Why would you solve the riddle, if witches aren't real then it would likely be someone manipulating them to find the gold for the culprit, only to come in and kill everyone to take the gold. That's exactly how it would play out IRL so it's a totally rational position for our characters to take.
Very good points, thanks, I’ll continue playing then.
Yes in my case every chapter was better than the last, the stuff that happens later on is so mind blowing, at least finish the first game
Here’s a little fuel for the fire: the witch says she was responsible for killing the family in the tea party. She demonstrates powerful magic for you. But isn’t the ritual supposed to revive the witch? If that’s the case, how does it make sense for it to be her to be doing the ritual?
That’s a good point, however I thought the ritual was supposed to revive her physical body, but the whole time she was present in the mansion as some etheric entity, whose presence was acknowledged by various people, both during the story events and before, and the whole thing was a deal between Kinzo and the witch so that made sense to me 🤔it was her doing the killing
That’s a theory, let’s see how it pans out.
it's a mystery VN, you're supposed to create your own theories about it until the awnser is revealed dummy
In my opinion, yes. If you wish to give a try to episode 2, go ahead. Since it's very different, will make or break for you. Don't forget to read the tea party and the ???? Before episode 2. Don't unlock it manually.
No, if you didn't like 1P don't read the rest.
Who's gonna tell em...
You... read one eighth of the story and... you're upset that the most climactic parts of the story haven't happened yet...? Have you... read a series before? *Any* series?