> A man who makes high-end guitars says Brexit has meant exporting his instruments has gone from 48 hours to three weeks.
> Steve Toon added the process has gone from costing £60 to £240 with his hand-crafted items often turning up late and "trashed".
> “It’s become actually quite difficult to trade. My European sales have dropped off by 50%," he said.
> [...]
> Mr Toon **does not want Britain to rejoin the EU, or even the single market**. He just wants politicians to come up with a plan to get his guitars across the channel in under a month.
Hmmm...
Sounds like he’s fretting about future business , maybe he should diversity , pick a new product, and add a few more strings to his bow to drum up some more business
The eurocrats are using rules and power to make you want to join them.(again). They make rules up by the dozen daily to justify ultimate power like all people in power.(palpatine). That people have differnet sides of where that power will lie is normal.laughing at a business because another group of countrys want too harm them is a bit shit init.
Bahahahaha I don’t care about this guy . Neither did he when he voted leave. I assume you also voted leave , you also probably think facts don’t care about feelings either ? We could have had free trade with the lasrgedt trading bloc the world has ever seen , but several million gullible idiots with no ability to think for themselves decided to vote on something they knew fuck all about , some of them are feeling the consequences don’t expect me to give a fuck
British sovereignty is important to me. But so is European sovereignty. I want to live in a Europe that can stand on it's own two feet instead of becoming dependent on an increasingly unreliable USA and China
Rather than engage in potentially painful self examination and introspection and actually admit they were wrong - let alone admit they were rolled like a bunch of rubes by the most sodding obvious bunch of grifters going … an appreciable number of Brexit voters have decided to double down and vote reform.
A dismal percentage of these people are never *ever* going to admit that they were wrong. It doesn’t matter how badly Brexit goes or how many Brexiteer promises are proven to be lies. It doesn’t matter how much data or facts roving this you present to them. They’ve made Brexit part of their identity and sense of self worth and they’ll ignore it all - and their only answer will be to the effect that Brexit only failed because we need to Brexit *even harder*.
They’re utterly resistant to attempts to engage with them in good faith debates or evidence/reality based reasoning. That’s been tried for getting on for a decade now to little avail. Frankly they’re a liability. And they’re going to be around for decades to come. The only question is how much more damage they do (like forcing a Reform or Tory/Reform government an election or two down the line) before they eventually shuffle off.
But clearly the government have sabotaged Brexit and don't want to do it properly! /s
Honestly, I've heard the line above from far too many of these people.
They're not even in the same postcode with admitting they were wrong. They want all the advantages of the market without any of the drawbacks.
I don't know how they think that's possible, but they clearly have no idea what an equal relationship looks like. Either they have blind trust in the likes of Boris that made a pinkie promise that'll happen, or they harken to the days of the empire when it was all take and no give.
Until they realise that the EU countries don't owe us anything and if we want something, we need to engage in equitable trade, admitting they were wrong won't even be on their radar.
That's precisely why a lot of "Remain"-ers were saying that this was a once-in-a-generation vote - and if it went "leave", the process of rejoining would be a slow, painful process.
It might be - MIGHT be - politically possible for a mainstream party to discuss rejoining the Single Market at the next election in 5 years. Though I don't rate the chances; I reckon two election cycles - ten years - is more likely. At which point the referendum will be 18 years in the past, a substantial number of "Leave" voters will have left this mortal coil and there will be grown adults who can't remember a time we were in the EU.
They definitely didn’t negotiate the best possible “brexit” though. And I voted remain. They had so much infighting and Boris just wanted to “get brexit done” no matter what. Absolute shit show.
At any one time I have five or six freelance friends in my field dealing with some kind of beaurocratic nightmare directly due to Brexit. I sincerely hope this guy sinks his entire net worth into his business and loses it all.
At some point someone will unironically claim that Brexit can't be undone because too many people would lose their jobs if the bureaucracy was removed.
I’m sure that will be the line when the inevitable Rejoin referendum comes up:
“Look at all these British jobs we’ll lose! Won’t someone think of the bureaucrats?”
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And he doesn't want to rejoin the EU or the single market, but he does want politicians to talk about Brexit more.
Note that the article carefully doesn't say whether he supported leaving or not.
That was the problem, wasn't it? Brexit was a very nebulous thing pre-referendum - everyone had slightly different proposals for what the post-Brexit agreement with the EU would look like.
As a result, there were 17.4 million people who voted to leave and 17.4 million different opinions as to what "leave" would look like. Seems pretty obvious that 17.39 million people would not get entirely what they hoped for.
It's not though, I live in Ireland and I was able to order a guitar from andertons on a Sunday night (drunk) and have it arrive at my door 3 days later. He just hasn't the resources or knowledge how to do it because it's quite time consuming if you don't know how.
It's more likely his business. Has fallen off because Europe aren't buying British made products as brexit is causing delays in their minds
It's not specific to guitars, just to small traders
I feel like you've tiptoed right around the cause being Brexit but still left a ground imprint that spells it out. An experience in Ireland is likely very different to the rest of mainland Europe.
What if we created a position where we harmonised the approach to trading across the continent? You know with a sole framework for trade, a single market if you will?
> Mr Toon does not want Britain to rejoin the EU, or even the single market. He just wants politicians to come up with a plan to get his guitars across the channel in under a month.
Say, by rejoining the EU or the single market? What a Toon.
This guy is the epitome of the JUST GERRON WIDDIT! crowd we saw after the referendum. Can’t admit they were misled, can’t admit it’s going badly, just wants to be financially looked out for on a personal level.
> Steve Toon added the process has gone from costing £60 to £240 with his hand-crafted items often turning up late and "trashed".
I worked in haulage, if something is ALWAYS getting trashed it's the fault of the sender for not appropriately packaging the items almost 100% of the time, it's more common on items with a lower margin as that's when the sender will be most likely to try to reduce this cost while unintentionally increasing the cost of their damages 😅 I dealt with companies that shipped glass with a very low margin of error as it was shipped correctly crated and with some intention of actually getting it there safely.
This might not be the case, but I infer from his remarks that his guitars are getting trashed more now than before Brexit, presumably without him changes how he packages.
Out of interest, if (for the sake of argument) we assume that to be true, can you think of anything (in your experience in haulage) which might cause that? Or do you think it's nonsense?
Maybe just the longer time it's taking means there's more chance of something going wrong?
Could be transit time, could be that goods used to get palletised for cross channel shipping but now they go loose in a container, could be lots of things all of which are easily prevented by making sure it's appropriately packaged for transport in the first place.
Edit: just thinking about transit time, 48hrs to Europe was a great lead time, our UK Ireland service was 48hrs pre brexit changing to 5 days after and Europe would of been at least a week before brexit.
I have sent thick Wooden crates through a courier, to have them returned smashed in with nails sticking out.
But yes this was definitely our fault, and not the large forklift that must have rammed into like they were playing crash bandicoot.
Things can happen to individual pieces of freight especially within pallet networks due to the use of machinery but the chances of it happening repeatedly are slim, in this case you'd assume he's sending things to multiple destinations which would travel diff routes and be handled diff so you go to the common denominator. This is why I caps locked the ALWAYS bit.
“Mr Toon does not want Britain to rejoin the EU, or even the single market. He just wants politicians to come up with a plan to get his guitars across the channel in under a month.”
Stopped reading there.
It's a fact that guitars can't sold and transported simply without the EU. That's why most guitarists come from the EU and not anywhere else in the world.
Nope, but before common trading areas, it would take weeks for my German-made guitar to get to me in Italy. The UK is just back at trading pre-common market, that's all, and it's trading on the same terms as the other external partners (and that's why if I can choose I always buy from inside the EU).
I bought something from a French website and got it to arrive in Italy to my parents, for 10€ and 5 days; same from Sweden. I tried to get the same shipped to the UK, and both would be 33£ and 2 weeks. Just not worth it.
Mostly expenses to cover necessary bureocracy in moving stuff across countries without an agreement, and probably also additional costs for the movers as there is also paperwork on their side, and depending how long it takes to clear they may have drivers/shippers locked for longer.
Import taxes may be a thing as well, although you will also be paying VAT on imported goods.
And that's for the companies that do ship to the UK (most of them just refuse).
As I said, lots of hassle and just not worth it.
The only realistic way around it is to rent a warehouse in Europe, ship all your UK products there first in bulk on a batch basis (maybe once a week or so) then ship onward from there to elsewhere in the EU.
That way, the shipping into the EU is one big shipment (which doesn't get you off the hook for VAT and all the bureaucracy, but does mean you only have to deal with it once for a great big batch of product rather than for every individual item).
That works fine for mass-produced, non-perishable items that are in demand by the hundred or the thousand. Doesn't work so well for anything else, though.
Yep, but that's only feasible if you move loads of stuff (and lots of the bigger firms did just that, they opened offices in Antwerp or France etc. to deal with EU business).
Small producers like the one in the article however cannot afford this kind of investment (rent, personnel, etc.) and so they're just cut out.
That’s more or less what I was driving at. Works fine if you’re shifting a thousand identical widgets every week; not so good if you specialise in individually produced items and maybe only shift a few a month.
Strange that the leapards should be consuming my visage, for was it not I that cast their ballots? I who raised them to power? I would never have imagined such a fate.
Damn. Poor guy, if only there was some kind of Political Union principaly designed to facilitate trade. If our politicians could set something like that up with rules on how to control it somehow... Nah too difficult to conceive. He's going to have to find an inheritance.
He just wants politicians to come up with a plan to get his guitars across the channel in under a month.
Translation: I voted for Brexit. But rather than admit I was wrong and ask for the thing that would actually achieve this, I want politicians come up with a plan based upon feelings and ensuring I’m not embarrassed, rather than something that will work.
But surely Brexit opened up the whole world for him?
Sure his sales to Europe, his geographically closest market, have fallen off a cliff but don't they buy guitars in India, China and Australia? He should be raking it in with all the opportunities now open to him right?
What's he complaining about?
If he doesn't want to rejoin and improve his business, he already got what he probably voted for.
Just because it hasn't worked out how he imagined , but exactly as most knew it would, is nobody's fault but that of Brexiteers.
Something, something, red white and blue, unicorns, unicorns oven ready, best deal ever, theyneedusmorethanweneedthem.
"I cut off my own ear to spite my face, but now I can only hear out of the one good ear. I don't want my old ear back, I just want the doctors to make the hearing out of my good ear double the strength..."
He’s clearly doing something wrong then. I ship goods all over Europe that land next day without fail every time. Shipping costs are also pretty much the same as what they were 5 years ago.
Nonsensical bullshit.
Which happens a lot. I know a vet, they employed someone to do pet export certificates for them, but often find themselves spending time fixing mistakes anyway. Wasting so much money and time for no reward.
The idea that things are the same as before is for the birds quite frankly.
We ship a lot out to the EU, biggest issue is delays from EU customs trying to verify the customs docs by trying to get transaction proofs from the recipient. Requires the recipient to be on the ball and know what’s going on, indeed to even know what the package is - frequently the send the wrong documents, or no documents then come extra fees, return costs and seemingly damaged goods from being sat in a courier network for months and being mauled over by customs inspectors…
The EU is one of the worst developed areas to get goods into…. But yet we knew this. I didn’t vote for it so sit at my deskjustifiably cursing those who did every time I have to deal with these problems.
Not a fair comparison, a large company who can set up a whole department to deal with bulk transit, vs a small independent manufacturer in a backend business park.
I dunno, I think SMEs suffer more from what I see, whereas big business absorbs the costs.
I think the existence of the EU has led to a generation of entitled idiots in the UK.
Pre-Brexit, they thought that shipping stuff internationally was so easy that anyone making a fuss about it was just being silly. Oh, sure, "it'll be harder to do that" post-Brexit. BFD, it's not exactly difficult now, how much harder can it be? It'll be one little form to fill in, max, no harder than sending something by Special Delivery.
Anyone with any experience in logistics could have said - with some authority - that it doesn't work like that.
Just curious for those in the know, but what additional checks would a guitar be subject to that would add such a huge amount of time? I could probably order from China and the US and it wouldn’t take that long.
Guitars can be made from rare/restricted wood which would have to be checked on import to the EU customs area. Random Google link: https://www.andertons.co.uk/cites-law-guitarists
We had to do this stuff for taking things out the country temporarily. [https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-an-ata-carnet](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-an-ata-carnet)
Annoying.
I export stuff to the EU each week and the only country that's a problem is France..
Yes I know people will be thinking that's just a cliche, some Anglo-French rivalry. But there are extra documents you produce for France and France *specifically* that make it more long-winded.
Italy? No problem. Germany? Fine. Spain? Ditto. Even Australia and New Zealand are easy.
Stuff is often held up for a couple of days whilst the French customs be extra diligent with the non-EU parcel whereas I presume Italy and Germany just wave it through because they can't be arsed?
Tbh I think we'll end up in an efta-type arrangement in the end, in the customs union.
It's obvious the UK can exist outside of the EU, it's just not all that comfortable, is it? The UK will never be fully trusting of it, nor the EU of the UK.
Close-ish is good, semi detached. I do believe this is what the majority of the Brexit vote envisioned and we're misled about.
Vassal state of the EU? Possibly? But who does the effect? And I highly doubt it anyway.
I agree. Full membership with our previous arrangements are impossible now and wouldn’t much improve our current circumstances without them. An EFTA arrangement would be good. Exports would still need to clear good though such as non-members so exports wouldn’t be any more efficient in that sense. It’s currently a 2 day transit time from England/Wales to Germany, France, and Netherlands, etc.
No joke, the guy from the article must be shipping his guitars via Royal Mail or some shit.
That article should have started with "man who had no idea what he was voting for still wants the benefits of EU membership without being a part of it"
He truly still doesn't believe that trade barriers he voted to raise up should apply to him, just everyone else.
> Mr Toon does not want Britain to rejoin the EU, or even the single market. He just wants politicians to come up with a plan to get his guitars across the channel in under a month
“I want to have my cake and eat it too.” What a fucking twat.
This is to help bring back the intense feeling of anticipation while helping people learn to manage this longstanding anxiety/excitement.
Knowing something will arrive tomorrow has resulted in reduced resilience in the general population.
The export issues to the rest of the world haven't changed. Just now the export issues to the EU are horrendously difficult. It's almost like the EU is a closed club that treats the rest of the world like shit. Oh, wait. That's part of the reason for Brexit.
So I can buy some random guitar off Amazon and then use UPS to ship that to Germany with a 2 day window. I can make shit and send it to German again in a 2 day window.
But this guy can't ship stuff cuz it takes him 3 weeks?
What absolute crap.
The only area that is a pain in the ass to ship to is Northern Ireland, everything else is just standard cop.
So as a guitar tech (guitar fixer) I happen to know quite a bit about the industry. There is no feasible way that he can say costs have quadrupled.
That is simply false. Shipping costs and taxes have increased but not increased THAT much.
Definitely not materials either as there’s an American company called StewMac that offers unlimited shipping for a year for £40 a year, and stuff often arrives from the states within 4 days!
If I wanted to I could order everything I need for nearly the same price pre-Brexit from British and American companies.
If anything I think he’s using it as an excuse to inflate his prices artificially. Mainly as Handmade guitars are a valuable commodity.
Once again, a pro Tory diversion story.
1. This is a Tory issue, not Brexit. They had plenty of time to resolve the bits that are our responsibility. _Some_ of it is down to EU rules, but that's just a good argument for Brexit. Unless you're a Tory of course...
2. The lead time on a guitar like that is upwards of a year if not a few years anyway, so I'm sure the people with that kind of time and money to spare ordering one won't mind a few more weeks and a few more quid.
I think you misread or misunderstood this story.
The person in this story has a problem. The problem wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for Brexit.
You’re right to say that he could have tried to mitigate this problem. But there wouldn’t be a problem or a need to mitigated it if it wasn’t for Brexit.
There wouldn't be a problem if the Tories had sorted out post Brexit import and export controls. They had enough time.
As you can see from the downvotes, Tories hate to have their party criticised but are too cowardly to make a response.
There wouldn’t be a problem if we had remained in the EU.
This isn’t a defence of the Tories, it’s quite the opposite. Brexit was always going to leave us all worse off and the Tories are responsible for lying to the people and pretending there’s a good version of Brexit!
This didn't need to be this way though. Name any problem with Brexit and it could have been resolved. By blaming Brexit as a concept you're simply excusing the Tories (and to extent the EU) from making a total mess of it.
The various Leave campaigns were led by right-wing xenophobic liars, and the only person with a sensible and rational Leave argument was Corbyn, but he seemed to reserve these decent arguments for tiny left wing events and hammed up and refused to speak to mainstream media about it when leader, so as much as I supported (and still do support) Corbynism, the guy was a total media failure as leader.
No, I’m not excusing the Tories.
The Tories are responsible for Brexit. Every single problem with Brexit would be non-existent if they hadn’t run for office on a promise to hold a Brexit referendum. And we would face none of those problems if they hadn’t lied about Brexit being a good idea to fool people into voting against their own interests in the referendum.
You seem willing to forgive them and to pretend that it’s not their fault and that there might have been some good version of Brexit. That’s simply not true.
I have been shipping stuff from England to all over Europe without an issue since Brexit.
COVID and the Royal Mail cyber incident were the only times I have had trouble.
What are these people doing to be fucking up this bad?
The comments in this sub really go to show how wildly out of touch with reality you are.
Prevailing sentiment #1: this guy is an idiot for not basing his views about EU membership on his own selfish business needs.
Prevailing sentiment #2: the trade of niche goods is a reason to be full EU members, not just having a separate agreement.
It’s beyond belief.
I think the prevailing sentiment is that Brexit is bad particularly for small businesses that depend on trade with the EU whether importing or exporting. And that consequences such as this are unsurprising.
Also, it is not entirely about self-interest, in totality, small businesses such as these aren’t a ‘niche’ part of the UK economy.
Sure. Brexit will be bad for businesses that relied on single market mechanics to trade on favourable terms with the EU. That's just one consideration of many in the debate about whether EU membership is right for the UK.
As to whether it's a niche part of the economy: only 6% of UK businesses were exporting to the EU in 2016, and the majority of that will have been larger companies; with SMBs as a small percentage of that small percentage.
I'd say that's pretty niche.
Then build them in the EU!
We aren’t in the EU anymore that’s life stop crying about it and adapt. That’s what business management is about!
If you don’t adapt to your environment you aren’t made for business Brexit or otherwise.
Your part of a machine same as he is, you have sided with group of people that want to harm any country or person that doesnt follow suit, cowards who hide behind rules and regulations to commit harm. The worlds took a big shit and these baiting news articles come around every few weeks. Eu politions where rubbing their hands and gloating about fucking the english and any other country dared to question them. I dont give a toss either if you dont care but your gloating as well so.....
If he used the same packaging before and after Brexit and they now regularly turn up trashed after being held a customs… it’s probably because they are now being held at customs.
I work in freight forwarding and am very anti Brexit but no way you can blame it on the trashing of his packages. Any delays at customs shouldn’t really affect the goods physically really.
Can only think he’s sending on the cheapest method possible to save costs and it gets kicked about.
Funny these people down voting because they don't understand freight handling. I used to work for River Island handling freight from the sub-continent, the far east, Europe and UK. Air freight was the worst for damage.
> A man who makes high-end guitars says Brexit has meant exporting his instruments has gone from 48 hours to three weeks. > Steve Toon added the process has gone from costing £60 to £240 with his hand-crafted items often turning up late and "trashed". > “It’s become actually quite difficult to trade. My European sales have dropped off by 50%," he said. > [...] > Mr Toon **does not want Britain to rejoin the EU, or even the single market**. He just wants politicians to come up with a plan to get his guitars across the channel in under a month. Hmmm...
Maybe he can pivot and start making tiny violins instead?
Poor guy just wants to export his guitars without all the strings attached
Looks like he hasn’t changed his tune.
Sounds like he’s fretting about future business , maybe he should diversity , pick a new product, and add a few more strings to his bow to drum up some more business
His problem doesn't really strike a chord with me, it doesn't seem as though his business is at a scale that will allow trade without any strings.
You joke, but it’s A major problem!
I know he's under tension but he's gotta use his nut and bridge the gap in the market.
Something something Liz Truss Rod?
He’s too wound up to realise the economic martyrdom his brexit vote caused
Excellent points, I’m taking notes. Sounds a lot like diminished responsibility to me.
And he thought it would B minor
WOP WOP WOP WOP
Your post really struck a chord with me
The eurocrats are using rules and power to make you want to join them.(again). They make rules up by the dozen daily to justify ultimate power like all people in power.(palpatine). That people have differnet sides of where that power will lie is normal.laughing at a business because another group of countrys want too harm them is a bit shit init.
Bahahahaha I don’t care about this guy . Neither did he when he voted leave. I assume you also voted leave , you also probably think facts don’t care about feelings either ? We could have had free trade with the lasrgedt trading bloc the world has ever seen , but several million gullible idiots with no ability to think for themselves decided to vote on something they knew fuck all about , some of them are feeling the consequences don’t expect me to give a fuck
Hahahaha
> Maybe he can pivot and start making tiny violins instead? To sell himself?
Or, maybe we can all give up our national sovereignty so he can get the guitars out slightly sooner.
Tell us where on the doll the EU touched you.
What is sovereignty and what is the benefit of having more of this elusive substance?
British sovereignty is important to me. But so is European sovereignty. I want to live in a Europe that can stand on it's own two feet instead of becoming dependent on an increasingly unreliable USA and China
Why wouldn't he want us to rejoin? It's killing his business.
I suspect he voted Leave but refuses to admit he was wrong.
Rather than engage in potentially painful self examination and introspection and actually admit they were wrong - let alone admit they were rolled like a bunch of rubes by the most sodding obvious bunch of grifters going … an appreciable number of Brexit voters have decided to double down and vote reform. A dismal percentage of these people are never *ever* going to admit that they were wrong. It doesn’t matter how badly Brexit goes or how many Brexiteer promises are proven to be lies. It doesn’t matter how much data or facts roving this you present to them. They’ve made Brexit part of their identity and sense of self worth and they’ll ignore it all - and their only answer will be to the effect that Brexit only failed because we need to Brexit *even harder*. They’re utterly resistant to attempts to engage with them in good faith debates or evidence/reality based reasoning. That’s been tried for getting on for a decade now to little avail. Frankly they’re a liability. And they’re going to be around for decades to come. The only question is how much more damage they do (like forcing a Reform or Tory/Reform government an election or two down the line) before they eventually shuffle off.
But clearly the government have sabotaged Brexit and don't want to do it properly! /s Honestly, I've heard the line above from far too many of these people.
Meanwhile, they look towards Reform- a party made up of politicians so corrupt they were kicked out of the tories.
And it's previous name Brexit Party, stood aside to get these very same Tories into power
They're not even in the same postcode with admitting they were wrong. They want all the advantages of the market without any of the drawbacks. I don't know how they think that's possible, but they clearly have no idea what an equal relationship looks like. Either they have blind trust in the likes of Boris that made a pinkie promise that'll happen, or they harken to the days of the empire when it was all take and no give. Until they realise that the EU countries don't owe us anything and if we want something, we need to engage in equitable trade, admitting they were wrong won't even be on their radar.
That's precisely why a lot of "Remain"-ers were saying that this was a once-in-a-generation vote - and if it went "leave", the process of rejoining would be a slow, painful process. It might be - MIGHT be - politically possible for a mainstream party to discuss rejoining the Single Market at the next election in 5 years. Though I don't rate the chances; I reckon two election cycles - ten years - is more likely. At which point the referendum will be 18 years in the past, a substantial number of "Leave" voters will have left this mortal coil and there will be grown adults who can't remember a time we were in the EU.
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They definitely didn’t negotiate the best possible “brexit” though. And I voted remain. They had so much infighting and Boris just wanted to “get brexit done” no matter what. Absolute shit show.
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You commented four times btw. Reddit's being weird; I had the same earlier.
Bugger, thanks for letting me know. I was thinking Reddit was being a bit strange today.
At any one time I have five or six freelance friends in my field dealing with some kind of beaurocratic nightmare directly due to Brexit. I sincerely hope this guy sinks his entire net worth into his business and loses it all.
At some point someone will unironically claim that Brexit can't be undone because too many people would lose their jobs if the bureaucracy was removed.
I’m sure that will be the line when the inevitable Rejoin referendum comes up: “Look at all these British jobs we’ll lose! Won’t someone think of the bureaucrats?”
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Somebody who's business is utterly dependent on EU trade voting for leave sounds about right.
The EU is just doing this to spite us! (Actual argument I’ve heard).
Maybe he should stop fretting
They wanted Brexit, but not *this* Brexit.
And he doesn't want to rejoin the EU or the single market, but he does want politicians to talk about Brexit more. Note that the article carefully doesn't say whether he supported leaving or not.
The classic shift from saying "Project Fear" to "Not my Brexit"
"Just because everything you said would happen happened and everything I said wouldn't happen happened doesn't mean I was wrong."
That was the problem, wasn't it? Brexit was a very nebulous thing pre-referendum - everyone had slightly different proposals for what the post-Brexit agreement with the EU would look like. As a result, there were 17.4 million people who voted to leave and 17.4 million different opinions as to what "leave" would look like. Seems pretty obvious that 17.39 million people would not get entirely what they hoped for.
It's not though, I live in Ireland and I was able to order a guitar from andertons on a Sunday night (drunk) and have it arrive at my door 3 days later. He just hasn't the resources or knowledge how to do it because it's quite time consuming if you don't know how. It's more likely his business. Has fallen off because Europe aren't buying British made products as brexit is causing delays in their minds It's not specific to guitars, just to small traders
I feel like you've tiptoed right around the cause being Brexit but still left a ground imprint that spells it out. An experience in Ireland is likely very different to the rest of mainland Europe.
What did you buy？
I suspect he's a leaver and wants brexit, but without the brexit. Rejoin has it's issues too though, but not for what he wants to be fixed.
Because not everything is about personal money. Come on that’s a fucking stupid comment.
This article **is** about personal money though. Keep up, mate.
I felt sympathy till the last part now I just want to slap him
I think he makes 6 strings, not basses
What if we created a position where we harmonised the approach to trading across the continent? You know with a sole framework for trade, a single market if you will?
Maybe a single market without free movement of people?
Das raycist
Saying shit like that makes you sound racist, man.
We'd need to think of a snappy name for it - any ideas?
Brenter.
but then they added a supranational state on top and ruined it
> Mr Toon does not want Britain to rejoin the EU, or even the single market. He just wants politicians to come up with a plan to get his guitars across the channel in under a month. Say, by rejoining the EU or the single market? What a Toon.
This guy is the epitome of the JUST GERRON WIDDIT! crowd we saw after the referendum. Can’t admit they were misled, can’t admit it’s going badly, just wants to be financially looked out for on a personal level.
> Steve Toon added the process has gone from costing £60 to £240 with his hand-crafted items often turning up late and "trashed". I worked in haulage, if something is ALWAYS getting trashed it's the fault of the sender for not appropriately packaging the items almost 100% of the time, it's more common on items with a lower margin as that's when the sender will be most likely to try to reduce this cost while unintentionally increasing the cost of their damages 😅 I dealt with companies that shipped glass with a very low margin of error as it was shipped correctly crated and with some intention of actually getting it there safely.
This might not be the case, but I infer from his remarks that his guitars are getting trashed more now than before Brexit, presumably without him changes how he packages. Out of interest, if (for the sake of argument) we assume that to be true, can you think of anything (in your experience in haulage) which might cause that? Or do you think it's nonsense? Maybe just the longer time it's taking means there's more chance of something going wrong?
Could be transit time, could be that goods used to get palletised for cross channel shipping but now they go loose in a container, could be lots of things all of which are easily prevented by making sure it's appropriately packaged for transport in the first place. Edit: just thinking about transit time, 48hrs to Europe was a great lead time, our UK Ireland service was 48hrs pre brexit changing to 5 days after and Europe would of been at least a week before brexit.
Its likely he changed courier he was using, or there was a change in the process for that courier, and how they shipped.
I have sent thick Wooden crates through a courier, to have them returned smashed in with nails sticking out. But yes this was definitely our fault, and not the large forklift that must have rammed into like they were playing crash bandicoot.
Things can happen to individual pieces of freight especially within pallet networks due to the use of machinery but the chances of it happening repeatedly are slim, in this case you'd assume he's sending things to multiple destinations which would travel diff routes and be handled diff so you go to the common denominator. This is why I caps locked the ALWAYS bit.
I take objection to that idea that you can successfully play Crash Bandicoot with anything but the utmost precision.
I thought that was strange too. He must be exaggerating. I've shipped many guitars myself. It's perfectly possible to do so safely.
“Mr Toon does not want Britain to rejoin the EU, or even the single market. He just wants politicians to come up with a plan to get his guitars across the channel in under a month.” Stopped reading there.
It's a fact that guitars can't sold and transported simply without the EU. That's why most guitarists come from the EU and not anywhere else in the world.
Nope, but before common trading areas, it would take weeks for my German-made guitar to get to me in Italy. The UK is just back at trading pre-common market, that's all, and it's trading on the same terms as the other external partners (and that's why if I can choose I always buy from inside the EU). I bought something from a French website and got it to arrive in Italy to my parents, for 10€ and 5 days; same from Sweden. I tried to get the same shipped to the UK, and both would be 33£ and 2 weeks. Just not worth it.
Where does the money go if not the actual transport costs?
Mostly expenses to cover necessary bureocracy in moving stuff across countries without an agreement, and probably also additional costs for the movers as there is also paperwork on their side, and depending how long it takes to clear they may have drivers/shippers locked for longer. Import taxes may be a thing as well, although you will also be paying VAT on imported goods. And that's for the companies that do ship to the UK (most of them just refuse). As I said, lots of hassle and just not worth it.
The only realistic way around it is to rent a warehouse in Europe, ship all your UK products there first in bulk on a batch basis (maybe once a week or so) then ship onward from there to elsewhere in the EU. That way, the shipping into the EU is one big shipment (which doesn't get you off the hook for VAT and all the bureaucracy, but does mean you only have to deal with it once for a great big batch of product rather than for every individual item). That works fine for mass-produced, non-perishable items that are in demand by the hundred or the thousand. Doesn't work so well for anything else, though.
Yep, but that's only feasible if you move loads of stuff (and lots of the bigger firms did just that, they opened offices in Antwerp or France etc. to deal with EU business). Small producers like the one in the article however cannot afford this kind of investment (rent, personnel, etc.) and so they're just cut out.
That’s more or less what I was driving at. Works fine if you’re shifting a thousand identical widgets every week; not so good if you specialise in individually produced items and maybe only shift a few a month.
Agreed. And guess what the UK has more of?
That's the quintessential brexit mentality
Ah, the ‘cake and eat it’ approach. Perhaps he should go and have a word with Johnson about his lies.
Strange that the leapards should be consuming my visage, for was it not I that cast their ballots? I who raised them to power? I would never have imagined such a fate.
Good news. They already did, since 3 weeks is less than a month his needs have already been met.
I can think of a plan which would instantly solve his problem, but he's not gonna like it...
Tell you voted leave without telling me you voted leave... Its Bruce Dickinson all over again.
Mr Toon probably voted for Brexit. So he has to 'suck it up'. Sorry, Mr Toon.
Had me in the first half...
Fuck him. He got what he voted for.
Thank you for the exert. lololol. Not even the single market. Lolol.
He could easily shift them to the USA in less time. Bigger, richer better market.
Damn. Poor guy, if only there was some kind of Political Union principaly designed to facilitate trade. If our politicians could set something like that up with rules on how to control it somehow... Nah too difficult to conceive. He's going to have to find an inheritance.
Man on fire does not want to be doused with water, as he doesn't like feeling wet.
Ironic!
He just wants politicians to come up with a plan to get his guitars across the channel in under a month. Translation: I voted for Brexit. But rather than admit I was wrong and ask for the thing that would actually achieve this, I want politicians come up with a plan based upon feelings and ensuring I’m not embarrassed, rather than something that will work.
Are Brexiteers months shorter than 3 weeks?
A Brexit month is the time it takes to travel across the channel in a dinghy.
I don't know but I'm sure you could make them believe that.
Do we really need a foreign court controlling our calendar? I think not.
He's the furthest away from Europeans as one can possibly be, big win for him lmao.
But surely Brexit opened up the whole world for him? Sure his sales to Europe, his geographically closest market, have fallen off a cliff but don't they buy guitars in India, China and Australia? He should be raking it in with all the opportunities now open to him right?
Also after NHS will be sold to US big pharma there will be trade deal with US! What a big market, hurray!
What's he complaining about? If he doesn't want to rejoin and improve his business, he already got what he probably voted for. Just because it hasn't worked out how he imagined , but exactly as most knew it would, is nobody's fault but that of Brexiteers. Something, something, red white and blue, unicorns, unicorns oven ready, best deal ever, theyneedusmorethanweneedthem.
He got exactly what he wanted 😂 "I just didnt think the consequences would apply to me"
"I cut off my own ear to spite my face, but now I can only hear out of the one good ear. I don't want my old ear back, I just want the doctors to make the hearing out of my good ear double the strength..."
He’s clearly doing something wrong then. I ship goods all over Europe that land next day without fail every time. Shipping costs are also pretty much the same as what they were 5 years ago. Nonsensical bullshit.
that's good to hear what do you ship?
Everything from hazardous chemicals (much larger than guitars - 200L drums) to small individual electrical components.
I choose to imagine that you're just a menace sending barrels of hazardous waste to random European households
Me and my best mate Farage sending barrels of dog shit to all the europoors
Yes I work in Air Freight too. Transit times are the same, but there is extra paperwork. Delays are caused by filling out the paperwork incorrectly.
Which happens a lot. I know a vet, they employed someone to do pet export certificates for them, but often find themselves spending time fixing mistakes anyway. Wasting so much money and time for no reward. The idea that things are the same as before is for the birds quite frankly.
Ssssh that's not what people like to hear. It only takes me a day or two to receive from the EU. The time it takes from America is a bigger issue.
We ship a lot out to the EU, biggest issue is delays from EU customs trying to verify the customs docs by trying to get transaction proofs from the recipient. Requires the recipient to be on the ball and know what’s going on, indeed to even know what the package is - frequently the send the wrong documents, or no documents then come extra fees, return costs and seemingly damaged goods from being sat in a courier network for months and being mauled over by customs inspectors… The EU is one of the worst developed areas to get goods into…. But yet we knew this. I didn’t vote for it so sit at my deskjustifiably cursing those who did every time I have to deal with these problems.
I got mine from Germany in 3 days, maybe he should try something different.
Sounds like they’re purposely delaying goods or the guy isn’t filling in the required paperwork
Yep, everyone knows he's a prick.
Thomann or DV247?
Thomann
It was going to be one of the two.
Not a fair comparison, a large company who can set up a whole department to deal with bulk transit, vs a small independent manufacturer in a backend business park. I dunno, I think SMEs suffer more from what I see, whereas big business absorbs the costs.
I think the existence of the EU has led to a generation of entitled idiots in the UK. Pre-Brexit, they thought that shipping stuff internationally was so easy that anyone making a fuss about it was just being silly. Oh, sure, "it'll be harder to do that" post-Brexit. BFD, it's not exactly difficult now, how much harder can it be? It'll be one little form to fill in, max, no harder than sending something by Special Delivery. Anyone with any experience in logistics could have said - with some authority - that it doesn't work like that.
Just curious for those in the know, but what additional checks would a guitar be subject to that would add such a huge amount of time? I could probably order from China and the US and it wouldn’t take that long.
A representative from each EU country has to play a guitar solo (from their own country) to check it for quality.
lol I can almost believe it.
Guitars can be made from rare/restricted wood which would have to be checked on import to the EU customs area. Random Google link: https://www.andertons.co.uk/cites-law-guitarists
Thanks.
There are reams of paperwork and processes that have to be done. No one is in a rush to process anything.
We had to do this stuff for taking things out the country temporarily. [https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-an-ata-carnet](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-an-ata-carnet) Annoying.
Leopards eating his face...
I export stuff to the EU each week and the only country that's a problem is France.. Yes I know people will be thinking that's just a cliche, some Anglo-French rivalry. But there are extra documents you produce for France and France *specifically* that make it more long-winded. Italy? No problem. Germany? Fine. Spain? Ditto. Even Australia and New Zealand are easy. Stuff is often held up for a couple of days whilst the French customs be extra diligent with the non-EU parcel whereas I presume Italy and Germany just wave it through because they can't be arsed? Tbh I think we'll end up in an efta-type arrangement in the end, in the customs union. It's obvious the UK can exist outside of the EU, it's just not all that comfortable, is it? The UK will never be fully trusting of it, nor the EU of the UK. Close-ish is good, semi detached. I do believe this is what the majority of the Brexit vote envisioned and we're misled about. Vassal state of the EU? Possibly? But who does the effect? And I highly doubt it anyway.
I agree. Full membership with our previous arrangements are impossible now and wouldn’t much improve our current circumstances without them. An EFTA arrangement would be good. Exports would still need to clear good though such as non-members so exports wouldn’t be any more efficient in that sense. It’s currently a 2 day transit time from England/Wales to Germany, France, and Netherlands, etc. No joke, the guy from the article must be shipping his guitars via Royal Mail or some shit.
That article should have started with "man who had no idea what he was voting for still wants the benefits of EU membership without being a part of it" He truly still doesn't believe that trade barriers he voted to raise up should apply to him, just everyone else.
Don't worry all these braindead morons will be lining up to blame Labour about Brexit as soon as humanly possible.
I'm mostly ordering from German stores. I avoid buying from the UK.
Something tells me this could be perfect for r/leopardsatemyface
These Brexit dividends just keep on coming. It's all the EU's fault for not bending over backwards to help us, I suppose.
> Mr Toon does not want Britain to rejoin the EU, or even the single market. He just wants politicians to come up with a plan to get his guitars across the channel in under a month “I want to have my cake and eat it too.” What a fucking twat.
Maybe he can move abroad and make his guitars? Oh wait….
He’s probably messed the paperwork up and blaming everyone else.
This is to help bring back the intense feeling of anticipation while helping people learn to manage this longstanding anxiety/excitement. Knowing something will arrive tomorrow has resulted in reduced resilience in the general population.
The export issues to the rest of the world haven't changed. Just now the export issues to the EU are horrendously difficult. It's almost like the EU is a closed club that treats the rest of the world like shit. Oh, wait. That's part of the reason for Brexit.
He's got the entire world to trade with, ditch the EU
So I can buy some random guitar off Amazon and then use UPS to ship that to Germany with a 2 day window. I can make shit and send it to German again in a 2 day window. But this guy can't ship stuff cuz it takes him 3 weeks? What absolute crap. The only area that is a pain in the ass to ship to is Northern Ireland, everything else is just standard cop.
So as a guitar tech (guitar fixer) I happen to know quite a bit about the industry. There is no feasible way that he can say costs have quadrupled. That is simply false. Shipping costs and taxes have increased but not increased THAT much. Definitely not materials either as there’s an American company called StewMac that offers unlimited shipping for a year for £40 a year, and stuff often arrives from the states within 4 days! If I wanted to I could order everything I need for nearly the same price pre-Brexit from British and American companies. If anything I think he’s using it as an excuse to inflate his prices artificially. Mainly as Handmade guitars are a valuable commodity.
No one gives a shit about your hand crafted guitars Steve. Your attitude is out of toon!
Once again, a pro Tory diversion story. 1. This is a Tory issue, not Brexit. They had plenty of time to resolve the bits that are our responsibility. _Some_ of it is down to EU rules, but that's just a good argument for Brexit. Unless you're a Tory of course... 2. The lead time on a guitar like that is upwards of a year if not a few years anyway, so I'm sure the people with that kind of time and money to spare ordering one won't mind a few more weeks and a few more quid.
I think you misread or misunderstood this story. The person in this story has a problem. The problem wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for Brexit. You’re right to say that he could have tried to mitigate this problem. But there wouldn’t be a problem or a need to mitigated it if it wasn’t for Brexit.
There wouldn't be a problem if the Tories had sorted out post Brexit import and export controls. They had enough time. As you can see from the downvotes, Tories hate to have their party criticised but are too cowardly to make a response.
There wouldn’t be a problem if we had remained in the EU. This isn’t a defence of the Tories, it’s quite the opposite. Brexit was always going to leave us all worse off and the Tories are responsible for lying to the people and pretending there’s a good version of Brexit!
This didn't need to be this way though. Name any problem with Brexit and it could have been resolved. By blaming Brexit as a concept you're simply excusing the Tories (and to extent the EU) from making a total mess of it. The various Leave campaigns were led by right-wing xenophobic liars, and the only person with a sensible and rational Leave argument was Corbyn, but he seemed to reserve these decent arguments for tiny left wing events and hammed up and refused to speak to mainstream media about it when leader, so as much as I supported (and still do support) Corbynism, the guy was a total media failure as leader.
No, I’m not excusing the Tories. The Tories are responsible for Brexit. Every single problem with Brexit would be non-existent if they hadn’t run for office on a promise to hold a Brexit referendum. And we would face none of those problems if they hadn’t lied about Brexit being a good idea to fool people into voting against their own interests in the referendum. You seem willing to forgive them and to pretend that it’s not their fault and that there might have been some good version of Brexit. That’s simply not true.
I have been shipping stuff from England to all over Europe without an issue since Brexit. COVID and the Royal Mail cyber incident were the only times I have had trouble. What are these people doing to be fucking up this bad?
Are you doing it commercially?
Yes and no.
What does he mean by after Brexit? Brexit was never delivered.
The comments in this sub really go to show how wildly out of touch with reality you are. Prevailing sentiment #1: this guy is an idiot for not basing his views about EU membership on his own selfish business needs. Prevailing sentiment #2: the trade of niche goods is a reason to be full EU members, not just having a separate agreement. It’s beyond belief.
I think the prevailing sentiment is that Brexit is bad particularly for small businesses that depend on trade with the EU whether importing or exporting. And that consequences such as this are unsurprising. Also, it is not entirely about self-interest, in totality, small businesses such as these aren’t a ‘niche’ part of the UK economy.
Sure. Brexit will be bad for businesses that relied on single market mechanics to trade on favourable terms with the EU. That's just one consideration of many in the debate about whether EU membership is right for the UK. As to whether it's a niche part of the economy: only 6% of UK businesses were exporting to the EU in 2016, and the majority of that will have been larger companies; with SMBs as a small percentage of that small percentage. I'd say that's pretty niche.
What does he mean by after Brexit? Brexit was never delivered.
So many years on we know Brexit was f'ed up. We just need to get on with it now ..no point dragging up the pain! 💯
Then build them in the EU! We aren’t in the EU anymore that’s life stop crying about it and adapt. That’s what business management is about! If you don’t adapt to your environment you aren’t made for business Brexit or otherwise.
Your part of a machine same as he is, you have sided with group of people that want to harm any country or person that doesnt follow suit, cowards who hide behind rules and regulations to commit harm. The worlds took a big shit and these baiting news articles come around every few weeks. Eu politions where rubbing their hands and gloating about fucking the english and any other country dared to question them. I dont give a toss either if you dont care but your gloating as well so.....
I'm not sure how you can blame Brexit if inadequate packing means you goods are damaged enroute
If he used the same packaging before and after Brexit and they now regularly turn up trashed after being held a customs… it’s probably because they are now being held at customs.
I work in freight forwarding and am very anti Brexit but no way you can blame it on the trashing of his packages. Any delays at customs shouldn’t really affect the goods physically really. Can only think he’s sending on the cheapest method possible to save costs and it gets kicked about.
Sending via Evri, maybe
Or groupage road freight. If not palletised I’d imagine it would turn up totally fucked.
Funny these people down voting because they don't understand freight handling. I used to work for River Island handling freight from the sub-continent, the far east, Europe and UK. Air freight was the worst for damage.