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My parents did that for my sister. She was able to play college volleyball though and has traveled to Europe and Asia to play as well. She even went to a tournament in Brazil with her highschool select team, which seemed nuts to me. Apparently all the girls on her team came from well off families.
Talk to the gymnastics parents. It’s a sport\industry almost 100% funded by the parents of the participants. Competitions are just an opportunity to sell parents more crappy costumes and hotel rooms at the most awful locations. Most of the Moms are former gymnasts living vicariously through their kids hoping the kid achieves what they couldn’t. It’s a sad and expensive scene.
At least with Golf or Tennis, you can enjoy the game into your older years.
I don't know a single gymnast, personally, who hasn't ended up with a permanent back problem. Imo it's right up there with football for sports you'd have to be an idiot to let your kid get involved in
CTE is from repeated shaking and hits to the head- they stumble a lot so there is an element of that. CTE also generally starts looking bad if you play for years and years. the number of football players that even play long enough to get enough head trauma from football to get CTE is rather low.
A kid on nephew's (8yo) hockey team left his team for another that costs around $20k a year and that's just for the kid, not any of the travel costs associated with the parents. I was thinking like damn multiply that by 10 and that's $200k that could have gone towards college.
Yeah. Around us soccer clubs charge thousands of dollars for a year starting kids from an early age. All that money in a college fund will fit 10 years will be around 40k
This. My mom put me in soccer as a kid in the 90's, thinking it was a cheaper alternative to getting me started in hockey at such a young age. Boy, was she wrong. And even back then. Needless to say, after she saw the costs, I went into hockey instead.
Damn. What makes it so expensive?
I just looked it up and to have your child play soccer in the Netherlands from the age of 5 to 18, it would cost a parent a total of €3000 for all those 14 years not counting shirts, shorts, socks, shin protector and shoes.
Generally speaking that’s true. But once you start getting into more specific situations then it’s up in the air. Where I’m at youth basketball is the most expensive youth sport because there’s the high school teams and then there’s the travel teams. Those teams travel across the country basically year round and if your kid is on the team you as the parent pay for their traveling costs. You buy your uniforms, you pay a yearly fee to be on the team which is non refundable if you get cut from the team because a better player shows up.
So true! Luckily, I had a cousin a couple years older than me who played as well, so we cut down on costs by me getting a lot of his hand-me-downs. No sense in refitting me every year for brand new cleats when all of the second-hand gear was cheaper. Only new gear I had for years were mouth guards and cups until I footed the bill for new skates and pads as a teenager. Travel costs alone, for either sport, were downright obnoxious. I couldn't even imagine the costs of it all nowadays.
It's very specific.
A parent of an 11 year old kid on my son's team (so, same skill level) paid more than 36k for hockey camps, great, etc in the year prior.
My son (again, same rough skill level) did about 1k worth of stuff and a bunch of "free" work (stickhandling in basement, shooting pucks, plyometrics in Park across street, etc)
My son isn't in sports, but a friend has 3 kids who play soccer. I just about dropped dead when she was talking about costs. Even before the costs of traveling, hotels stays, etc.
Yeah, and spoiler the schools aren’t always the best either.
I am part of the problem, my kid plays soccer in a club where there is a big emphasis on scholarships. Some of these kids are getting scholarships but usually to schools I have never heard of before with questionable reputations. They will go anywhere they can play.
We are leaning hard on our kid to choose for academics and maybe there is a slim chance he can play.
As to why we do the club? He really enjoys it, we are not trying to get a return on investment there.
Sure, but why not just play in the rec league and school team? My sister is a teacher, and works a second job to pay for her girls to play club soccer and volleyball.
I don't get it, when I was a kid you just played a sport based on the season. Soccer/football/CC in the fall. Swimming/basketball/wrestling in the winter. Baseball/track in the spring. What's with all the emphasis on one sport? Especially for the amount it costs.
If you're good at a sport, most rec league will only be any fun for you if you're not taking it seriously. Competing at a level that's challenging is fun to some people.
Where we live and with how big the school is you don’t have a prayer at playing on varsity unless you are at a very high level, rec won’t cut it. We had 150 kids try out for boys soccer. My kid starts on the varsity HS team and loves it, but it is only possible because of how much he plays.
Most sports are like that at our school.
Well, they must have a jv and a c team with that many kids, right? Isn't that fun also? I get that some kids love sports (mine could care less), but it just doesn't seem worth it to devote so many resources to something that's likely going to go away when they're 18.
Really, sports are just a slightly more fun way to exercise.
Hmmmm, I don’t think so bro. My parents paid maybe $1,000 a year on football stuff, my school costed $50,000 a year (I had a $45,000 a year scholarship)
Most people aren’t gonna invest that, it’s just going to go to some other recreational activity your child does like piano. Assuming you want your child to have a hobby.
Show me the money. Run us he time value of money at 1000k for 12 years and marry that to the 50k/year for college.
Interest works out for that amount when you have a lot of time
Yep, as long as there is a slight 0.01% chance that the kid could get a scholarship, which is likely, but then the low chance part of being a Topplayer in some Pro scene for it then the Parents will hype up the kids sports success and ultimatley dooms them to a shitty future.
A guy just recently told me he didn’t mind putting all their money into his elementary school daughters hockey because she’s so good. They are sure she will get a scholarship to college. I was utterly disgusted.
I learned that there’s tons of different kinds of scholarships out there kids can apply for, it’s pretty ridiculous. There’s tons of free money out there that students don’t go for cuz it can often be like filling out paperwork or writing an essay. But it’s there.
There’s obviously bigger scholarships, but those tend to be hard as fuck to get. I ran cross country and track and field, I knew some pretty damn good athletes in my school district that didn’t get massive scholarships. Parents need to just be encouraging and let their kids have fun in sports, whether they end up being good or not, sports can teach kids a lot of things and keep them in shape.
I was a broke kid who didn’t go for these.
It’s spending your time playing the lottery. First year I applied to 50 different scholarships, page-long essays and all from a scholarship website. Probably took me a month to get them all submitted.
I didn’t win a single one. Including the $1,000, 2 page long application I submitted detailing the importance of backflow prevention systems in lawn irrigation, or the $100 one detailing the troubles I’d experienced moving (I moved eight or nine times by the time I was in college, had some stories)
Now, who knows, maybe I just really sucked at writing. Either way, it didn’t work for me. I did the standard “multiple part time bobs with no benefits” approach for a while before just succumbing to student loans. At least those were a guarantee I’d have food on the table.
It’s a bad rationalization that doesn’t hold up to how much money is being gambled vs. invested and let to grow over the same amount of time. Just admit you’re sucked into the scene, the culture, the competitiveness, whatever.
Which is stupid, because most athletes that go on to play in college play Division III, which does not offer athletic scholarships.
We spent a lot of money for my older daughter to play softball, and she played though college at D-III.
We spent even more money for my younger daughter to play volleyball; she was going to play D-III but Covid cancelled her freshman season and she transferred to a Big 12 school closer to home the next year. So she’s not playing volleyball at all anymore.
I played a couple years of rec basketball growing up then started playing football once I got to high school. Got injured in some capacity my first three years. Started my senior year and had a D1 offer at the end of the season.
Granted, when you’re 6’7” at 17, you’ll get people’s attention…
I had a classmate in high school that treated gym class like it was the superbowl, screaming at anyone who didn't go 100% or did something wrong. It was interesting, to say the least. Dude couldn't chill at all and the teacher didn't seem to care lol.
sad but true.
My school offered 2 tiered gym classes (20 years ago). One for everyone who just needed the credits to graduate, adn one for "athletes" I would swing between the two since the regular gym classes were more chill and fun, but i was a varisty athlete back then, so it was nice being able to get a full lift in during gym class.
We had a similar program. The athletics course was basically signing up for the football team, small school so there weren’t tryouts to make the team, just take the class and coaches would put you on JV or Varsity squad. After football season we had a whole off-season workout plan, with a strength & conditioning coach, and we did 2 45minute workouts per day (second one was “optional” but not really if you wanted to actually play next season). I loved it and since I moved away, I think this might be a Texas thing, nobody I’ve met from the east coast had this in school, everyone was in regular gym class.
I think gym class should be more structured for everyone, like an actual fitness program considering how fat everyone in America is (including me lol). Maybe not geared towards a specific sport but it’s good to know the right way to lift weights, run, how to build a workout plan, how to recover, etc. So many people I know go to the gym and work out hard as shit for 3 days then get so sore they can’t move and don’t go back.
Gym class was such an interesting experience for me. The primarily boys in the class would take it extremely seriously and a those not as interested in it would hardly try.
It's fascinating seeing exercise be made mandatory.
I remember the track unit in gym class. I ran cross country. We had to do a 400 (one lap around the track). I took off like a bat out of hell, because that’s what we did in practice. About half way done I realize I’m way ahead of everyone else. I like was oops, I guess I’m the weird one here. When the rest of the class finished they were all huffing and puffing and looking at me like I was a totally nuts. Realize now that yes I was the crazy one.
lol it’s the same thing as people who want to write the next great novel anytime they get a writing assignment in English class, rather than you know … just following the directions and making it easy for themselves.
These people also have a hard time being told no in life and live miserably. When everything is am obstacle in life that must be overcome, then failure is around every corner. At work we encounter these types frequently. We call them runners.
Sports are great, but some parents are off the rails. I'm in my 40s and feel EVERYTHING has become a competition. The concept of doing something for the sake of doing is long lost.
My friend said parents are the worst part of coaching. He's thankful to coach girls wrestling over boys because the boys parents are "worse". The wrestling team essentially lost a bunch of funds because of parents complaining, saying the funds were being misused. Now all the money has to go into a fund for all HS sports. You play basketball and did a fundraiser? Well it's being shared with everyone now, even after the investigation found nothing. He's moved onto university coaching this last season and hasn't mentioned anything like he was dealing with before.
I heard my coworker talking about how his daughter is going to cheer tryouts in 5th grade...5th GRADE having tryouts! I am pretty sure all sports and sports related activities when I was a kid were everyone gets to participate until like 10th grade when there was a Varsity/Junior Varsity cut.
That's how it was when I grew up. Kids had an opportunity to learn and play to see if it's something they'd like to pursue further. Now, unless a child is some sort of sport prodigy or started taking lessons in pre-school it's not going to happen.
I grew up in Minnesota, well, was born there, moved to AZ super young and returned in 2nd grade. I joined hockey in 3rd of 4th grade and even by then the skill level difference was astounding. So many of the kids I played with literally learned to skate as they learned to walk. While I was able to develop my shooting or passing skills to a similar level, my skating was never even close to average. By 7th grade it was very clear I wasn't going to be a competitive kid. I knew of two brothers who went to summer camps and such to train but for the most part that wasn't expected.
High school sports are kind of funny.
People will devote years of their lives, countless hours, emotional investment, money, go to camps, and on and on and on.
Then they graduate high school and… it just ends. “Guess the central thing in my life for the last 12 years is just done.”
This is why I’m glad I did cross country and track, you can still run post high school and college. In my mid thirties now and I have friends who are still in great shape, like I’m shocked at how fast they still are, some of them are still running 15-17 minutes for 3 miles. I kinda fell off a bit but I’m still running and staying active.
Mid 30s is young, still near prime of one’s life.
The only reason a mid 30s person is not healthy is due to overeating, or injury (incl due to childbirth).
Diet is a far bigger factor than cardiovascular health (for being out of shape in mid 30s).
Sure but a lot of people just stop running. Some these guys are running almost as fast as they were in highschool and college, like 15-16 minutes for 3 miles. That doesn’t come easy without a lot of consistent training and running work outs.
As someone also in their 30s who is also in shape, it was both disappointing and gratifying to learn you don’t just become infirm and slow at this age. Disappointed because the majority of my friends seem to think so and allowed it to happen to them, and gratifying because my pursuit has allowed me to enjoy many things others think are impossible to do at this age.
If you’re <25 and reading this, just take care of your body. It’s not hard and the benefits are amazing.
You think kids think about that when they first fall in love with the sport at a super young age? There’s opportunity and there’s so much more than the sport itself. Friendships and lessons. Kinda lame to throw shade at those ppl honestly.
I’m surprised and a bit sad that people aren’t getting this aspect.
Sure, a large portion of the kids might not have the talent or size or intangibles needed to move on to the collegiate level. But what they DID get was X-many years of fun and comradery with a group of friends that they will always remember.
And more importantly, they got to learn about how to work hard toward a goal, experience adversity and overcome it, experience success and what it takes to maintain it, and more important still, learn how to work together with a team made up of people entirely different from themselves toward a common goal.
Sports are a beautiful thing because they teach young men and women about LIFE and all of those lessons can absolutely be taken, adapted and put to use forever after.
Sorry to highjack you and get wordy, I’m a youth coach and I get very enthusiastic about helping the kids 😂😂😂
A big aspect I like too, is how to lose in a “safe” way. You’re gonna lose a lot in life (career, relationships, etc.) and getting some experience of what that’s like when the stakes are still relatively low is valuable I think.
I don't think kids who love sports are the issue here - it's the seriousness that surrounds competition that's ruining them for many kids.
It's become a two tier world - you either get on the travel teams and live the lifestyle, or you have no one to play with. At least in our area.
I kinda agree with you but if you don't take the competition seriously is there any competition at all? If you feel blaise about winning or losing are you invested in the competition?
I think the tier problem is huge. I played almost every sport except swimming growing up. The specialization at such a young age is not great for developing well rounded people. I don't see a way to fix this problem.
He absolutely tries to win every game of knockout we play, and tries his hardest in one on one even though I've still got 5" on him.
We absolutely love to play competitively, but never forget to have fun.
The highly competitive nature of travel baseball (in my case) is what made it fun and what makes me miss it so much. There’s lower levels of play for people who dorm want that.
That's why I got into bjj in my mid 20s. I really missed wrestling. My first day on the mats I felt right at home again. A lot of people call it retirement for wrestlers.
I enjoy training hard and hanging out. Don't really compete these days I don't want to risk getting injured and missing a lot of play time with my son.
As a former wrestler I think no gi BJJ should replace wrestling. It makes more sense from a combat perspective anyways and has less stalling.
A lot of the moves from wrestling make no sense combat wise.
I'm old and busted and crave adult wrestling. BJJ is fun but not the same. My first day at BJJ I got asked " are you that wrestler?" Because of the way I set up from top position. Apparently we make it hurt more than they do. It's been hard for me to learn to go easy on the mats.
This is different. I’m talking about something you choose to focus a huge part of your life on, to have it abruptly and completely disappear.
Obviously everything ends.
I think we should separate sports from school. There's no reason it should end, it should keep going throughout life. I also think there should be different leagues to play in. Instead of wasting time on the bench kids should join a team in an easier league. Also kids and adults can take a break for a couple years and then start playing again. No rat race. Graduating from college or high school doesn't mean it's time for a picket fence and a beer belly.
... that's how it's usually done elsewhere in the world. To be honest, we are surprised about how seriously they take sports in general in the US. But i digress - sports are organized by official teams/clubs at all levels here - these organizations have nothing to do with schools. So there is no abrupt end if you finish some level of schooling. There are multiple leagues for most sports, so even if you don't cut the mustard to be with the 'pros' you can usually still play at the lower league as you get older. Or even vice versa E.g. my great-aunt was a lower-leaguer swimmer as an adult. But now when she is a senior (65+) she represents our nation at the highest echelon events for her age.
A few people that I went to high school with did the same a few of ended up in AAA or AA ball only one or two ended up in major league, but on mediocre teams
I mean pick-up basketball isn't going anywhere, more people playing in adult leagues like flat football, soccer, basketball and baseball are all getting more popular.
I ran into a high school acquaintance about two months ago for the first time since high school 12 years ago and all he could talk about was how good of an athlete he was in high school and how it has led to him currently being unemployed and disabled today. I then realized these people still exist at every age.
I feel obligated to respond. I devoted my life to a sport I wasn't particularly amazing at (when I wasnt even 10) with the dream of playing in college and playing professionally. Parents really didnt push me, it was pretty much just me. While I made friends and learned lessons, it completely consumed my life, for what?? I ended up going to college on a half ride scholarship to some garbage university studying a subject I didnt care about all for the chance to play a sport professionally. I got a lot better in college, but it didn't matter. Being better than 99.9% of people at a sport doesnt matter, because to make a living you need to be 100X better than that.
The friends that I made have either quit said sport and we no longer talk, or they're still trying to make it professionally and we no longer talk. It took me 5+ years to rebuild my identity because before my entire existence was just being the guy that is good at a sport. Toiled away for years trying to figure out what I even wanted to study and am just now finishing a degree in my late 20's.
All of this to say, I 100% agree with you and would discourage any future kids I have from practicing a sport over hanging with friends, going to school dances, dating, studying, pretty much anything a normal teen would do.
Had a girl spend her entire life trying to get into the Olympics for gymnastics. She tried out when she was 16, didn't make it, and stopped doing gymnastics.
Played baseball all my life. Played in HS but we weren't a big school but would still get scouts sometimes. Basically was playing in HS to play in college. I didn't get a scholarship, or anything. I haven't played baseball since HS besides the off sandlot game here and there.
It's a funny thing to think about. I knew getting to play pro is a less than 1% chance and even college ball is about the same. And just like that, I stopped caring about baseball? Maybe I never did. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Some adult leagues have a better following post HS education than others.
Hockey has a very strong beer league following, baseball players usually end up playing high arc softball, soccer leagues exist, basketball pickup is pretty common. So the answer of to your question is, yes. If you want to continue playing in a slightly less organized fashion the options still exist.
Agree. I have a hs jr and his games are so much more intense than "back in the day". It feels like theyre all constantly competing for d1 rides when thats not even close to the case. And the parent/volunteer demands and the team parent/coach politics? Bleh.
look at it positively, we don't have much to worry about any more, we don't need to run from lions and we even have cures for tuberculosis, if the most serious thing in somebody's life is sports, good for them, it means they don't have anything else to worry about.
For real. I can go on and on about the amazing things sports, or any hobby, can do for a person a or community, but sometimes it just boils down to the fact that things can just be fun 🤷♂️
I coached. Really wanted to have a video of some of the parents “cheering” during the season showing it on the big screen at the end of the year banquet. The idea was always shut down by the people above me. Maybe, just maybe it would open the eyes of some of the blowholes…….doubt it though. They always think it’s someone else.
Cheer for the team when it’s a team sport, not just for your little Johnny. Don’t berate the officials the whole game. Don’t personally, verbally attack anyone. Respect your opponents, don’t belittle them. These are only a few things that some parents “cheer” about. The kids on your child’s team know which parents should just stay home, kids are pretty smart.
Man I remember parents screaming at the coach to put Johnny freshman in the game or lamenting how not playing him is why we lost. Johnny was the slowest and smallest running back on the team, the seniors were a bit better surprisingly.
Hell, little league is taken too seriously. A bunch of losers trying live vicariously through their children because they’re stuck working some crap job because those 4 years were the only time they mattered.
My little boy just finished his 2nd year of T-ball. It's wild how angry parents get. Sure I yell, but it's not but positive things or the occasional "pat attention!".
I watched one coach/dad run off the field, snag his son up, and belittle him because he wasn't running fast enough. Like dude, etf. They're 6, playing T-ball. Chill.
I coach their soccer team and have had to talk with parents about how I don't encourage playing rough and trying to hurt someone. Save that for when they're older. These are the building blocks to encourage fun and a love of the sport.
I umpired youth baseball for about 10 years… I’ve been called every name in the book, even followed into the parking lot… over calls that everyone in my crew agreed with. Sorry little Johnny walked in the winning run but when the ball is in the opposite batters box what do you want me to do? If you’d like I can stand next to you in the bleachers and call strikes from there. Not to mention the lack of understanding of basic rules by parents and even coaches. Once I started calling high school ball about 3 years ago I never went back to youth. People think since high school actually has stakes it’s worse but nothing is worse than youth ball
Completely in agreement with you. I still call youth baseball but I’ve been given full authority to toss coaches and parents (I didn’t use to have that authority and it was awful). I call college basketball and high school football and basketball, and I will not call youth games in either sport anymore because of the parents.
I’ve actually thought about umping now that my kids are gone because I love baseball and have great memories of coaching my son’s travel team. And then I remember the parents….hell no. Once the game was over and they were done bitching at you they go after the coaches. If the team wins it’s because the kids played great, if they lose it’s because the umps and coaches were awful haha.
When I was a kid I played little league, all we got was a T-shirt and a hat. Half the team showed up in jeans for the game. Almost no parents watched, the kids just walked to the field by themselves. A couple of dads would umpire and even pitch at the lowest levels.
Today the kids are decked out in full uniforms with expensive gear like the pros and the stands are full of families cheering or yelling at the teams/Coach/Ump.
It's changed a lot, quality is much higher but is the experience of the players better?
Here they have a little league season opening event. They have every player on every time walk out to read their name. It takes hours. My kid was there for scouts to hold flags. He had to stand the entire time.
As a little league umpire, I’m with you on this. I tossed a coach the other day and nearly tossed two parents in the same game. Why? Because the coach argued every single close ball his pitcher threw for about 4 innings, I got fed up and warned him, and he decided to be a smart ass back to me as I tried to tell him that he’s ruining the game for everyone around him. After I tossed him, two parents started cussing me out from the stands. I looked over and said, “if I hear that language again I’m throwing out whoever said it. These are TWELVE YEAR OLDS!” And they thankfully shut up.
Mind you, this was not a playoff game. It was a regular season game.
My mom put me in ONE team sport program and after a week she decided she was never doing it again. I was probably 4, did a one week basketball camp at a rec center. Last day was a "game" to show off to the parents that we learned how to put the ball in the 2 foot high hoop and could sort of bounce it. Multiple parents yelled at the teacher the way you see them argue with high school coaches and my mom noped out immediately.
I agree. more so because it leads the school to prioritizing athletic students and giving them privileges and passes people wouldn’t normally have because they’re essentially the school’s cash cow for grants and funding.
i can see why they are competitive when it comes to colleges and getting scholarships, but the students should get the same treatment as everyone else does
Not in England I don’t think… might just have been my school but all the decent footballers, who played for teams outside of school, didn’t want to play for the school in case they got injured.
i don't think we treat high school sports anywhere nearly as seriously as americans. For football and cricket mainly, its grassroots which is more important.
I played for my cricket team in secondary school, it was generally just a fun thing which let me skive a couple periods.
High school sports are an incredibly big deal here in America. We do have “grassroots” teams but they typically end by high school age because all the kids are caught up in the high school team. The grassroots teams also cost money whereas most high school sports don’t charge a fee (you may have some uniforms costs or bus prices here and there but mostly it’s significantly cheaper…..because it’s funded by the school).
As a teacher, it’s very frustrating seeing how much money goes towards sports when we need to hire more teachers, make class sizes smaller, and have more/better materials in the schools for *academics* but “there isn’t money” because we aren’t allowed to touch what is earmarked for athletics. Additionally, it’s not uncommon for failing grades and behavior issues to “disappear” from the record when they involve a “star athlete” such as the quarterback.
Disclaimer: I was a multi sport athlete in high school and view sports as important. I also don’t think someone should be excluded from teams if they can’t afford the cost. HOWEVER, schools are *supposed* to be focused on academics.
The teams outside of school are far less important than the school teams in the US.
The 2nd nost popular sports league in the US is *college* football. Which, while different from high school, is just another school team.
High school sports are the leagues that matter here, we don't have the same network of professional academies.
I actually agree. I played sports to get out of class early on game days and make friends. My grades were nothing to write home about and it probably would have been smarter to spend the time in class.
I played because I was pushed into it by my parents. Ended up resenting and hating sports and the people involved in 9th grade. I was lucky that I was able to quit junior year of high school, they were pushing for me to play till I graduated.
I feel this is quite an American thing due to the way your college sport structure works and how college is the obvious route to being a professional sportsman.
In much of the world (certainly in Europe at least), if you're going to be a professional footballer, you'd be playing academy games at youth level for a professional club (or a club linked to a professional club) rather than messing about with other 14 year olds who barely know how to kick a ball.
In the country i live, nobody cares about High School sport, or college sport.
But if its anything like i have seen on tv shows, in the US where people seem to be obsessed about high school sport and college sport. Than yes i agree Americans are far to obsessed with high school and college sport.
Depends on the country, but in England anyone who's good as a kid plays for an academy. Those don't really exist in the US, so your future professionals play high school/ college ball instead
This is especially true for American football - there's really no path to the NFL except playing in college first. You have to be three years out of high school to be drafted and there's no minor league
I guess it depends on how you mean. I wasn't particularly good at sports, but it was my favorite part of the day. I went and got to see all my friends and it was a great way to stay active. I took it seriously because I wanted to do the best I could. To this day, I'm involved in some kind of sport, and even though I'm not particularly good, I take it seriously by paying attention and doing my best during practice. I also try to pay attention to my nutrition and self-care of my body. I guess overall, having a sport in my life has helped me to focus on nutrition and self-care. So, in a sense, I take it seriously, but I don't always see that as a bad thing. I do think it's silly when people take it seriously in a sense of thinking it will get them scholarships, and they'll go pro when they aren't that good.
As someone who played a high school sport. I took as one of the most serious things in my life. Taught me great disciple. Camaraderie. Kept me in shape. And many other things.
I think you do have an unpopular opinion. Good job.
As a foreigner who lived in Kansas and attended High School for a year, I’m not sure I agree. Sports here aren’t tied to a school here, so there is way less support. It isn’t a big deal at all.
To me, that’s the other end of a spectrum you don’t want to be in. HS sports in the US offer something amazing: a feeling of being part of something bigger. This is something the US (and the rest of the world for that matter) can really use more of right now.
Granted, the one end of the spectrum is also a bad place to be, where people take it TOO seriously. It’s about kids, and they’re supposed to have fun and learn about life. Taking this too seriously only hurts them. And keep in mind that there are plenty of other ways to participate.
I did not grow up in the US, but my children were born here. I could never understand the obsession with school sports.
My one son loved lacrosse and made a lot of friends on the team. It was a good thing for him. What I couldn’t believe was how seriously the parents take it, signing them up for this camp and that clinic and the other summer league, and driving to tournaments hours away etc. They all had hopes of their kids getting into better colleges because of lacrosse. I would just say “we don’t have to worry about that sort of thing. My kids are smart enough.” I got some dirty looks.
My kids went to better colleges than everyone on that team. And they were pretty mediocre players.
It's definitely a US thing. We have quite a bit in common with the US here in Canada but pretty none of the players who go pro in team sports are in leagues through the school system. The athletes at my high school that were considered cool were in the Western Hockey League because they could be drafted to the NHL. The only other students who got scouted from team sports were some lacrosse players who played in the regional league and got scholarships to some American universities. The school didn't have a team in either of those sports. The highschool teams in basketball, volleyball ball and football would have less than 10 spectators a game. Mean while 4000 people would pay to go see the WHL games and some of those guys are in the NHL now.
Why you think this is an unpopular opinion is beyond me.
Everyone knows they’re taken too seriously. Most people just don’t care.
Why?
1) Because taking them seriously and being competitive is part of the fun of sports to begin with.
2) High school sports is the highest level most people are ever going to play. The students know that and so do their parents. As such, they take them seriously.
3) There are a small percentage that are going to get scholarships. So, of course, they take them seriously.
Schools where I live will spend millions on constructing new sports facilities (mostly football but now even wrestling and volleyball) while the English department building is crumbling and doesn’t have a working fire alarm.
Also, the fine arts and AP scholars program bring in more scholarship dollars than sports do.
Sports don’t make money for the school either. They make money for their own programs and fund the ridiculous stipends that coaches get.
I’m a big basketball fan but I hate how much sports is focused on in high school. It literally serves the least amount of students, percentage wise- yet gets huge amounts of funding
People watching Friday night lights rarely get the story that's being told.
Those kids were basically destroying themselves for the glory that suddenly fell away when they graduated, just waiting for a new crop of meat next year.
It seems better now, I hope so.
But hearing how the other coaches were yelling at the kids in my boy's soccer league... Probably not.
A lot of life lessons can be learned from playing sports. But the die hardness of HS sports has gotten waaay out of hand in the more recent years I’ll admit.
You should see the parents who have their kids in competitive Go Karting, we’re talking about 10k a weekend for a race. Many will spend over 100k/year.
Well, I would say for most it's because they want to use that as a way into college and therefore you do need to take it seriously. Someone who's doing it for fun isn't going to have the same motivation as someone who's trying to have 4 years of college paid for. Now I do agree there is a fine line between being passionate about the sport and being too serious but it is a VERY fine line. If you're not at least passionate, then why are you even playing?
Parents though I do agree, I've seen parents thay I've had to step in and tell them to chill the fuck out and leave the coaches alone
This is only true from the outside looking in. I was lucky enough to play college ball. But even talking to friends back home, a ton of their best memories are on the ball field. Because it was really the only time in high school they gave a damn about something, showed up every day, showed up to the weight room during the offseason and was rewarded for it on the field.
Also boiling this down to kids and parents are doing everything they can for scholarships is just wrong. We had 3 people in my high school class play in college. But every team was filled. And every team competed. Being serious about something and teaching your kids that you don’t have to be elite to care is definitely a good thing.
The only thing I agree with is the parents who “cheer”. But even they’re such a minority that it doesn’t matter.
Tying scholarships to sports was a terrible decision that has led to so many unnecessary and unintended problems.
Like the whole trans sports debate would be totally irrelevant except for sports performance is tied to your future.
So is Little League. Conservative Boomers love to whine about participation trophies, but if they and previous generations hadn't created a society where winning is seen as everything, participation trophies would never in a million years have been necessary.
Yeah, for everyone who gripes about participation trophies, I always get the sense that they’re putting too much weight on the winner trophies. Who gives a shit if your team won the football game because your school has more obese 8-year-olds than the other school?
I don’t disagree. School sports were an incredible experience for me. So much camaraderie, friendship, shared experience, unbelievable highs, and just devoting yourself fully to something for years is an amazing experience…but at the same time it was insane. I had so much stress, fear, and disappointment in myself throughout HS because of how all consuming xc and track were. How one of my couches would treat literally children is in retrospect ridiculous. He fully lived vicariously through us. The time demands were brutal on top of homework. The sport just never stopped year round. Great experience…but it would be better if everyone collectively agreed that giving 80% was sufficient
Sports are just as important as academics. It teaches coordination, discipline, teamwork, dedication, etc
Sports are the only thing some kids have if they're not academically adept or in a destructive environment.
If academics can be taken seriously, why not sports, arts, music, and such?
IMO I disagree that they are taken too serious. I was a Multi-sport athlete from age 5 up till I graduated. I was dedicated, morning and after school practices, never missed practice or games unless I was deathly ill. I wasn't allowed a job in high school if I wanted to participate in sports because that was my "Job". It created a lot of good qualities in myself. My work ethic, leadership skills, being healthy, amongst some other qualities as well.
Now I knew I wasn't going to the NBA, NFL, MLB but I still took it as serious as if I was going to be going. I ended up getting a couple $500 scholarships from the sports I played (not like full ride stuff, just some scholarships to help with the bills. I went to a small community college)
Many things in school aren't taken serious enough mainly education, but I'm glad that sports are still getting kids to do things, learn specific talents, learn who they are as a person, it really does shape who you are.
Of course just my opinion though!
It’s wild because these parents honestly think that their kids can go pro if they spend more money on trainers, travel teams, etc. if you’ve ever had the privilege of seeing a future pro athlete playing high school sports it’s unmistakable, you KNOW they’re going pro.
Sports in general... don't get me wrong, a lot of athletes have very impressive skills. It's just the die hard superfans, and super extravagant events/sports culture that feels over the top.
But I think athletes should take it very seriously. Odds are this is the only time they will compete at this official level.
The meaning of life is the meaning we pour into it. And to pour heavy meaning into this brief period of life where you are competing, win or lose, adds purpose to your life for a brief period.
While people likely do go a little overboard, the pros outweigh the cons. Increases physical fitness and social aptitude. [Athletes do better in school](https://news.ku.edu/news/article/2014/01/15/study-shows-high-school-athletes-performed-better-school-persisted-graduation-more-non).
And of course, if you hope to get into an elite school involvement in athletics is increasingly a requirement. Stellar GPA and SAT alone won’t do the trick.
Athletes do better in school IF the school still places academics as the first priority. But many do not. Student athletes regularly miss instruction, and anybody acting like this won't negatively affect academic outcomes is delusional. You can certainly do a whole lot better academically when you don't have to commit to athletics too. Stellar GPA and test scores actually can still get people into excellent schools, it happens all the time. Administrators just push athletics because they bring money in. Apart from improving physical health sports do not do anything for students that could not also be accomplished by participating in a school club.
Highschool in general is taken too seriously. My husband just did well in college after getting straight F's in hs, and is making 6 figures now. I got straight A's and became a sahm
As someone who lives outside the US, I can not disagree with you more. There is no path through school to any sort of professional sports. If you play for a school team you will have to almost always pursue it privately. In the US there is a direct path from school sports to professional leagues meaning low income people and committed athletes have an easier path to the pros and getting noticed.
I agree - because I'm English, and here in England, senior school sports are not a big deal at all. Nobody gets accepted for university here because of their sporting prowess.
I don't think you realise how money works. The half a billion a nfl team makes in a year isn't magically gonna end up going to health care. That money just disappears and stays in very peoples pockets. No one is getting hurt by a team just existing. If anything, they are a net positive because it can be a great way for a select few to get out of poverty.
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They say it has to do with getting partial or full scholarships.
Ironically, for a number of sports the parents probably have to spend more money than college would cost to get the scholarship.
My aunt and uncle certainly did on ex-MLB baseball coaches (1on1) and travel teams. None of my cousins played in college lol
My parents did that for my sister. She was able to play college volleyball though and has traveled to Europe and Asia to play as well. She even went to a tournament in Brazil with her highschool select team, which seemed nuts to me. Apparently all the girls on her team came from well off families.
And that’s an example of a sport that on the cheaper end. The golf and tennis parents take a beating.
Talk to the gymnastics parents. It’s a sport\industry almost 100% funded by the parents of the participants. Competitions are just an opportunity to sell parents more crappy costumes and hotel rooms at the most awful locations. Most of the Moms are former gymnasts living vicariously through their kids hoping the kid achieves what they couldn’t. It’s a sad and expensive scene. At least with Golf or Tennis, you can enjoy the game into your older years.
I don't know a single gymnast, personally, who hasn't ended up with a permanent back problem. Imo it's right up there with football for sports you'd have to be an idiot to let your kid get involved in
I don’t think there’s any comparison between potential CTE from football and back problems from gymnastics.
CTE is from repeated shaking and hits to the head- they stumble a lot so there is an element of that. CTE also generally starts looking bad if you play for years and years. the number of football players that even play long enough to get enough head trauma from football to get CTE is rather low.
A kid on nephew's (8yo) hockey team left his team for another that costs around $20k a year and that's just for the kid, not any of the travel costs associated with the parents. I was thinking like damn multiply that by 10 and that's $200k that could have gone towards college.
Yeah. Around us soccer clubs charge thousands of dollars for a year starting kids from an early age. All that money in a college fund will fit 10 years will be around 40k
This. My mom put me in soccer as a kid in the 90's, thinking it was a cheaper alternative to getting me started in hockey at such a young age. Boy, was she wrong. And even back then. Needless to say, after she saw the costs, I went into hockey instead.
Damn. What makes it so expensive? I just looked it up and to have your child play soccer in the Netherlands from the age of 5 to 18, it would cost a parent a total of €3000 for all those 14 years not counting shirts, shorts, socks, shin protector and shoes.
It is insane that hockey, with the full set of equipment and skates that kids will outgrow almost every year, would be comparable let alone cheaper.
Hockey is 10x more expensive than soccer. Soccer is one of the cheapest sports you can play.
Generally speaking that’s true. But once you start getting into more specific situations then it’s up in the air. Where I’m at youth basketball is the most expensive youth sport because there’s the high school teams and then there’s the travel teams. Those teams travel across the country basically year round and if your kid is on the team you as the parent pay for their traveling costs. You buy your uniforms, you pay a yearly fee to be on the team which is non refundable if you get cut from the team because a better player shows up.
Yes that’s how most traveling sports work. Now imagine the same exact fees and travel costs and then multiply them and that’s traveling ice hockey
So true! Luckily, I had a cousin a couple years older than me who played as well, so we cut down on costs by me getting a lot of his hand-me-downs. No sense in refitting me every year for brand new cleats when all of the second-hand gear was cheaper. Only new gear I had for years were mouth guards and cups until I footed the bill for new skates and pads as a teenager. Travel costs alone, for either sport, were downright obnoxious. I couldn't even imagine the costs of it all nowadays.
There’s no way hockey is cheaper than soccer where I live
It's very specific. A parent of an 11 year old kid on my son's team (so, same skill level) paid more than 36k for hockey camps, great, etc in the year prior. My son (again, same rough skill level) did about 1k worth of stuff and a bunch of "free" work (stickhandling in basement, shooting pucks, plyometrics in Park across street, etc)
See I find that crazy in my country and pay maybe $150 a year and that’s all you paid at football club/soccer
My son isn't in sports, but a friend has 3 kids who play soccer. I just about dropped dead when she was talking about costs. Even before the costs of traveling, hotels stays, etc.
Yeah, and spoiler the schools aren’t always the best either. I am part of the problem, my kid plays soccer in a club where there is a big emphasis on scholarships. Some of these kids are getting scholarships but usually to schools I have never heard of before with questionable reputations. They will go anywhere they can play. We are leaning hard on our kid to choose for academics and maybe there is a slim chance he can play. As to why we do the club? He really enjoys it, we are not trying to get a return on investment there.
Sure, but why not just play in the rec league and school team? My sister is a teacher, and works a second job to pay for her girls to play club soccer and volleyball. I don't get it, when I was a kid you just played a sport based on the season. Soccer/football/CC in the fall. Swimming/basketball/wrestling in the winter. Baseball/track in the spring. What's with all the emphasis on one sport? Especially for the amount it costs.
If you're good at a sport, most rec league will only be any fun for you if you're not taking it seriously. Competing at a level that's challenging is fun to some people.
Where we live and with how big the school is you don’t have a prayer at playing on varsity unless you are at a very high level, rec won’t cut it. We had 150 kids try out for boys soccer. My kid starts on the varsity HS team and loves it, but it is only possible because of how much he plays. Most sports are like that at our school.
Well, they must have a jv and a c team with that many kids, right? Isn't that fun also? I get that some kids love sports (mine could care less), but it just doesn't seem worth it to devote so many resources to something that's likely going to go away when they're 18. Really, sports are just a slightly more fun way to exercise.
Hmmmm, I don’t think so bro. My parents paid maybe $1,000 a year on football stuff, my school costed $50,000 a year (I had a $45,000 a year scholarship)
With interest/compounding it’s probably closer than you think, certainly if you account for the probability of actually getting a scholarship
Most people aren’t gonna invest that, it’s just going to go to some other recreational activity your child does like piano. Assuming you want your child to have a hobby.
Show me the money. Run us he time value of money at 1000k for 12 years and marry that to the 50k/year for college. Interest works out for that amount when you have a lot of time
but you get to brag about getting the scholarship, that's priceless
Not even close to being true
Yep, as long as there is a slight 0.01% chance that the kid could get a scholarship, which is likely, but then the low chance part of being a Topplayer in some Pro scene for it then the Parents will hype up the kids sports success and ultimatley dooms them to a shitty future.
The irony is the kids getting those scholarships still come. From rich well to do families that can afford college
A guy just recently told me he didn’t mind putting all their money into his elementary school daughters hockey because she’s so good. They are sure she will get a scholarship to college. I was utterly disgusted.
Nothing more disgusting than parents investing in their children's future.
Investing in things your child loves is great. Investing in things your child loves because you’re positive they will get a scholarship/go pro is not.
She’s 10 and he’s banking on her wanting and being good enough to play professional hockey.
I learned that there’s tons of different kinds of scholarships out there kids can apply for, it’s pretty ridiculous. There’s tons of free money out there that students don’t go for cuz it can often be like filling out paperwork or writing an essay. But it’s there. There’s obviously bigger scholarships, but those tend to be hard as fuck to get. I ran cross country and track and field, I knew some pretty damn good athletes in my school district that didn’t get massive scholarships. Parents need to just be encouraging and let their kids have fun in sports, whether they end up being good or not, sports can teach kids a lot of things and keep them in shape.
I was a broke kid who didn’t go for these. It’s spending your time playing the lottery. First year I applied to 50 different scholarships, page-long essays and all from a scholarship website. Probably took me a month to get them all submitted. I didn’t win a single one. Including the $1,000, 2 page long application I submitted detailing the importance of backflow prevention systems in lawn irrigation, or the $100 one detailing the troubles I’d experienced moving (I moved eight or nine times by the time I was in college, had some stories) Now, who knows, maybe I just really sucked at writing. Either way, it didn’t work for me. I did the standard “multiple part time bobs with no benefits” approach for a while before just succumbing to student loans. At least those were a guarantee I’d have food on the table.
True, but it seems far more about parental ego.
It’s a bad rationalization that doesn’t hold up to how much money is being gambled vs. invested and let to grow over the same amount of time. Just admit you’re sucked into the scene, the culture, the competitiveness, whatever.
Also parents have s0 much pride sometimes they compare their children to others more than the children compare them to themselves.
I agree with op, and here in Australia no such thing as scholarship for that sort of thing
Which is stupid, because most athletes that go on to play in college play Division III, which does not offer athletic scholarships. We spent a lot of money for my older daughter to play softball, and she played though college at D-III. We spent even more money for my younger daughter to play volleyball; she was going to play D-III but Covid cancelled her freshman season and she transferred to a Big 12 school closer to home the next year. So she’s not playing volleyball at all anymore.
I played a couple years of rec basketball growing up then started playing football once I got to high school. Got injured in some capacity my first three years. Started my senior year and had a D1 offer at the end of the season. Granted, when you’re 6’7” at 17, you’ll get people’s attention…
College sports are taken WAY too seriously.
I had a classmate in high school that treated gym class like it was the superbowl, screaming at anyone who didn't go 100% or did something wrong. It was interesting, to say the least. Dude couldn't chill at all and the teacher didn't seem to care lol.
It’s the only class some dudes excel at
sad but true. My school offered 2 tiered gym classes (20 years ago). One for everyone who just needed the credits to graduate, adn one for "athletes" I would swing between the two since the regular gym classes were more chill and fun, but i was a varisty athlete back then, so it was nice being able to get a full lift in during gym class.
We had a similar program. The athletics course was basically signing up for the football team, small school so there weren’t tryouts to make the team, just take the class and coaches would put you on JV or Varsity squad. After football season we had a whole off-season workout plan, with a strength & conditioning coach, and we did 2 45minute workouts per day (second one was “optional” but not really if you wanted to actually play next season). I loved it and since I moved away, I think this might be a Texas thing, nobody I’ve met from the east coast had this in school, everyone was in regular gym class. I think gym class should be more structured for everyone, like an actual fitness program considering how fat everyone in America is (including me lol). Maybe not geared towards a specific sport but it’s good to know the right way to lift weights, run, how to build a workout plan, how to recover, etc. So many people I know go to the gym and work out hard as shit for 3 days then get so sore they can’t move and don’t go back.
Gym class was such an interesting experience for me. The primarily boys in the class would take it extremely seriously and a those not as interested in it would hardly try. It's fascinating seeing exercise be made mandatory.
It should be mandatory, our bodies are designed to move and be used
I remember the track unit in gym class. I ran cross country. We had to do a 400 (one lap around the track). I took off like a bat out of hell, because that’s what we did in practice. About half way done I realize I’m way ahead of everyone else. I like was oops, I guess I’m the weird one here. When the rest of the class finished they were all huffing and puffing and looking at me like I was a totally nuts. Realize now that yes I was the crazy one.
You were the skilled one. You trained for that and you had pride in it. Don’t be embarrassed about that
lol it’s the same thing as people who want to write the next great novel anytime they get a writing assignment in English class, rather than you know … just following the directions and making it easy for themselves.
These people would make me laugh so hard
These people also have a hard time being told no in life and live miserably. When everything is am obstacle in life that must be overcome, then failure is around every corner. At work we encounter these types frequently. We call them runners.
Sports are great, but some parents are off the rails. I'm in my 40s and feel EVERYTHING has become a competition. The concept of doing something for the sake of doing is long lost.
My friend said parents are the worst part of coaching. He's thankful to coach girls wrestling over boys because the boys parents are "worse". The wrestling team essentially lost a bunch of funds because of parents complaining, saying the funds were being misused. Now all the money has to go into a fund for all HS sports. You play basketball and did a fundraiser? Well it's being shared with everyone now, even after the investigation found nothing. He's moved onto university coaching this last season and hasn't mentioned anything like he was dealing with before.
I heard my coworker talking about how his daughter is going to cheer tryouts in 5th grade...5th GRADE having tryouts! I am pretty sure all sports and sports related activities when I was a kid were everyone gets to participate until like 10th grade when there was a Varsity/Junior Varsity cut.
That's how it was when I grew up. Kids had an opportunity to learn and play to see if it's something they'd like to pursue further. Now, unless a child is some sort of sport prodigy or started taking lessons in pre-school it's not going to happen.
I grew up in Minnesota, well, was born there, moved to AZ super young and returned in 2nd grade. I joined hockey in 3rd of 4th grade and even by then the skill level difference was astounding. So many of the kids I played with literally learned to skate as they learned to walk. While I was able to develop my shooting or passing skills to a similar level, my skating was never even close to average. By 7th grade it was very clear I wasn't going to be a competitive kid. I knew of two brothers who went to summer camps and such to train but for the most part that wasn't expected.
High school sports are kind of funny. People will devote years of their lives, countless hours, emotional investment, money, go to camps, and on and on and on. Then they graduate high school and… it just ends. “Guess the central thing in my life for the last 12 years is just done.”
This is why I’m glad I did cross country and track, you can still run post high school and college. In my mid thirties now and I have friends who are still in great shape, like I’m shocked at how fast they still are, some of them are still running 15-17 minutes for 3 miles. I kinda fell off a bit but I’m still running and staying active.
This is kinda how I feel about soccer. I haven’t met a single person who played soccer growing up that’s overweight now.
I sure have haha.
I met plenty of middle aged German men who play soccer regularly but still have beer bellies
you fr never stop kicking the ball around. stopped playing 8 years ago and haven’t given it up fully yet lol
Mid 30s is young, still near prime of one’s life. The only reason a mid 30s person is not healthy is due to overeating, or injury (incl due to childbirth). Diet is a far bigger factor than cardiovascular health (for being out of shape in mid 30s).
Sure but a lot of people just stop running. Some these guys are running almost as fast as they were in highschool and college, like 15-16 minutes for 3 miles. That doesn’t come easy without a lot of consistent training and running work outs.
As someone also in their 30s who is also in shape, it was both disappointing and gratifying to learn you don’t just become infirm and slow at this age. Disappointed because the majority of my friends seem to think so and allowed it to happen to them, and gratifying because my pursuit has allowed me to enjoy many things others think are impossible to do at this age. If you’re <25 and reading this, just take care of your body. It’s not hard and the benefits are amazing.
You think kids think about that when they first fall in love with the sport at a super young age? There’s opportunity and there’s so much more than the sport itself. Friendships and lessons. Kinda lame to throw shade at those ppl honestly.
I’m surprised and a bit sad that people aren’t getting this aspect. Sure, a large portion of the kids might not have the talent or size or intangibles needed to move on to the collegiate level. But what they DID get was X-many years of fun and comradery with a group of friends that they will always remember. And more importantly, they got to learn about how to work hard toward a goal, experience adversity and overcome it, experience success and what it takes to maintain it, and more important still, learn how to work together with a team made up of people entirely different from themselves toward a common goal. Sports are a beautiful thing because they teach young men and women about LIFE and all of those lessons can absolutely be taken, adapted and put to use forever after. Sorry to highjack you and get wordy, I’m a youth coach and I get very enthusiastic about helping the kids 😂😂😂
No, thank you. You’re spot on and did an excellent job expanding on what I was saying.
A big aspect I like too, is how to lose in a “safe” way. You’re gonna lose a lot in life (career, relationships, etc.) and getting some experience of what that’s like when the stakes are still relatively low is valuable I think.
Op is talking about sports being taken too seriously. Not about the validity of team sports as a whole. Entirely different things.
I don't think kids who love sports are the issue here - it's the seriousness that surrounds competition that's ruining them for many kids. It's become a two tier world - you either get on the travel teams and live the lifestyle, or you have no one to play with. At least in our area.
I kinda agree with you but if you don't take the competition seriously is there any competition at all? If you feel blaise about winning or losing are you invested in the competition? I think the tier problem is huge. I played almost every sport except swimming growing up. The specialization at such a young age is not great for developing well rounded people. I don't see a way to fix this problem.
He absolutely tries to win every game of knockout we play, and tries his hardest in one on one even though I've still got 5" on him. We absolutely love to play competitively, but never forget to have fun.
That's the key. Competitive and fun can coexist. When people forget that it sucks.
The highly competitive nature of travel baseball (in my case) is what made it fun and what makes me miss it so much. There’s lower levels of play for people who dorm want that.
That's why I got into bjj in my mid 20s. I really missed wrestling. My first day on the mats I felt right at home again. A lot of people call it retirement for wrestlers. I enjoy training hard and hanging out. Don't really compete these days I don't want to risk getting injured and missing a lot of play time with my son.
I wish more schools would offer BJJ.
As a former wrestler I think no gi BJJ should replace wrestling. It makes more sense from a combat perspective anyways and has less stalling. A lot of the moves from wrestling make no sense combat wise.
I'm old and busted and crave adult wrestling. BJJ is fun but not the same. My first day at BJJ I got asked " are you that wrestler?" Because of the way I set up from top position. Apparently we make it hurt more than they do. It's been hard for me to learn to go easy on the mats.
It took me until purple belt when I started working with friends kids to slow down and smooth it out
It's still a conscious effort for me. It's funny it never felt aggressive until I started BJJ and saw how they rolled. Wrestlers are fucking aggro.
By this logic anything in life just ends. They make friends along the way as well as acquire a skill
This is different. I’m talking about something you choose to focus a huge part of your life on, to have it abruptly and completely disappear. Obviously everything ends.
I think we should separate sports from school. There's no reason it should end, it should keep going throughout life. I also think there should be different leagues to play in. Instead of wasting time on the bench kids should join a team in an easier league. Also kids and adults can take a break for a couple years and then start playing again. No rat race. Graduating from college or high school doesn't mean it's time for a picket fence and a beer belly.
... that's how it's usually done elsewhere in the world. To be honest, we are surprised about how seriously they take sports in general in the US. But i digress - sports are organized by official teams/clubs at all levels here - these organizations have nothing to do with schools. So there is no abrupt end if you finish some level of schooling. There are multiple leagues for most sports, so even if you don't cut the mustard to be with the 'pros' you can usually still play at the lower league as you get older. Or even vice versa E.g. my great-aunt was a lower-leaguer swimmer as an adult. But now when she is a senior (65+) she represents our nation at the highest echelon events for her age.
I wish I could find a local adult baseball league. The closest ones to me are an hour away
A few people that I went to high school with did the same a few of ended up in AAA or AA ball only one or two ended up in major league, but on mediocre teams
Major League is Major League
Mediocre teams still making half a million dollars a year minimum lol
I mean pick-up basketball isn't going anywhere, more people playing in adult leagues like flat football, soccer, basketball and baseball are all getting more popular.
Honestly no different than college or pro sports either, a low tier NFL lineman retires…and now he’s just some guy. The transition’s abrupt.
I ran into a high school acquaintance about two months ago for the first time since high school 12 years ago and all he could talk about was how good of an athlete he was in high school and how it has led to him currently being unemployed and disabled today. I then realized these people still exist at every age.
I feel obligated to respond. I devoted my life to a sport I wasn't particularly amazing at (when I wasnt even 10) with the dream of playing in college and playing professionally. Parents really didnt push me, it was pretty much just me. While I made friends and learned lessons, it completely consumed my life, for what?? I ended up going to college on a half ride scholarship to some garbage university studying a subject I didnt care about all for the chance to play a sport professionally. I got a lot better in college, but it didn't matter. Being better than 99.9% of people at a sport doesnt matter, because to make a living you need to be 100X better than that. The friends that I made have either quit said sport and we no longer talk, or they're still trying to make it professionally and we no longer talk. It took me 5+ years to rebuild my identity because before my entire existence was just being the guy that is good at a sport. Toiled away for years trying to figure out what I even wanted to study and am just now finishing a degree in my late 20's. All of this to say, I 100% agree with you and would discourage any future kids I have from practicing a sport over hanging with friends, going to school dances, dating, studying, pretty much anything a normal teen would do.
Had a girl spend her entire life trying to get into the Olympics for gymnastics. She tried out when she was 16, didn't make it, and stopped doing gymnastics. Played baseball all my life. Played in HS but we weren't a big school but would still get scouts sometimes. Basically was playing in HS to play in college. I didn't get a scholarship, or anything. I haven't played baseball since HS besides the off sandlot game here and there. It's a funny thing to think about. I knew getting to play pro is a less than 1% chance and even college ball is about the same. And just like that, I stopped caring about baseball? Maybe I never did. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Im assuming this is america. Does america not have organised amatuer leagues for adults ?
Some adult leagues have a better following post HS education than others. Hockey has a very strong beer league following, baseball players usually end up playing high arc softball, soccer leagues exist, basketball pickup is pretty common. So the answer of to your question is, yes. If you want to continue playing in a slightly less organized fashion the options still exist.
They do, most people just don’t actually care to continue it past when they’re forced to or socially coerced to
How is that funny? There is few greater joys than devoting years of your life to something you love.
Agree. I have a hs jr and his games are so much more intense than "back in the day". It feels like theyre all constantly competing for d1 rides when thats not even close to the case. And the parent/volunteer demands and the team parent/coach politics? Bleh.
college has gotten a lot more exoensive
Life is taken too seriously.
look at it positively, we don't have much to worry about any more, we don't need to run from lions and we even have cures for tuberculosis, if the most serious thing in somebody's life is sports, good for them, it means they don't have anything else to worry about.
Ain’t that the dam truth
For real. I can go on and on about the amazing things sports, or any hobby, can do for a person a or community, but sometimes it just boils down to the fact that things can just be fun 🤷♂️
I coached. Really wanted to have a video of some of the parents “cheering” during the season showing it on the big screen at the end of the year banquet. The idea was always shut down by the people above me. Maybe, just maybe it would open the eyes of some of the blowholes…….doubt it though. They always think it’s someone else.
what do you mean "cheering"?
Cheer for the team when it’s a team sport, not just for your little Johnny. Don’t berate the officials the whole game. Don’t personally, verbally attack anyone. Respect your opponents, don’t belittle them. These are only a few things that some parents “cheer” about. The kids on your child’s team know which parents should just stay home, kids are pretty smart.
Man I remember parents screaming at the coach to put Johnny freshman in the game or lamenting how not playing him is why we lost. Johnny was the slowest and smallest running back on the team, the seniors were a bit better surprisingly.
Oh yeah i agree 100%, just not exactly sure what you meant, thanks!
Glory Days for lots of parents. It’s sad.
You should see the lacrosse dads at my kids’ high school. It’s embarrassing.
You should see the dads that berate their kids into crying at the 10-12 level baseball.
Hell, little league is taken too seriously. A bunch of losers trying live vicariously through their children because they’re stuck working some crap job because those 4 years were the only time they mattered.
I’ve seen little kids get yelled at by their parents for messing up stuff in Little Leagues and I just sit there like wtf are you doing as a parent
Ooh no, that last pitch was clearly outside! Time to chug that 14th beer and punch the umpire!
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was America!
What ya wanna do huh?
I didn't hear no bell
My little boy just finished his 2nd year of T-ball. It's wild how angry parents get. Sure I yell, but it's not but positive things or the occasional "pat attention!". I watched one coach/dad run off the field, snag his son up, and belittle him because he wasn't running fast enough. Like dude, etf. They're 6, playing T-ball. Chill. I coach their soccer team and have had to talk with parents about how I don't encourage playing rough and trying to hurt someone. Save that for when they're older. These are the building blocks to encourage fun and a love of the sport.
I umpired youth baseball for about 10 years… I’ve been called every name in the book, even followed into the parking lot… over calls that everyone in my crew agreed with. Sorry little Johnny walked in the winning run but when the ball is in the opposite batters box what do you want me to do? If you’d like I can stand next to you in the bleachers and call strikes from there. Not to mention the lack of understanding of basic rules by parents and even coaches. Once I started calling high school ball about 3 years ago I never went back to youth. People think since high school actually has stakes it’s worse but nothing is worse than youth ball
Completely in agreement with you. I still call youth baseball but I’ve been given full authority to toss coaches and parents (I didn’t use to have that authority and it was awful). I call college basketball and high school football and basketball, and I will not call youth games in either sport anymore because of the parents.
I’ve actually thought about umping now that my kids are gone because I love baseball and have great memories of coaching my son’s travel team. And then I remember the parents….hell no. Once the game was over and they were done bitching at you they go after the coaches. If the team wins it’s because the kids played great, if they lose it’s because the umps and coaches were awful haha.
When I was a kid I played little league, all we got was a T-shirt and a hat. Half the team showed up in jeans for the game. Almost no parents watched, the kids just walked to the field by themselves. A couple of dads would umpire and even pitch at the lowest levels. Today the kids are decked out in full uniforms with expensive gear like the pros and the stands are full of families cheering or yelling at the teams/Coach/Ump. It's changed a lot, quality is much higher but is the experience of the players better?
Here they have a little league season opening event. They have every player on every time walk out to read their name. It takes hours. My kid was there for scouts to hold flags. He had to stand the entire time.
As a parent of a former little leaguer …AMEN
As a little league umpire, I’m with you on this. I tossed a coach the other day and nearly tossed two parents in the same game. Why? Because the coach argued every single close ball his pitcher threw for about 4 innings, I got fed up and warned him, and he decided to be a smart ass back to me as I tried to tell him that he’s ruining the game for everyone around him. After I tossed him, two parents started cussing me out from the stands. I looked over and said, “if I hear that language again I’m throwing out whoever said it. These are TWELVE YEAR OLDS!” And they thankfully shut up. Mind you, this was not a playoff game. It was a regular season game.
My mom put me in ONE team sport program and after a week she decided she was never doing it again. I was probably 4, did a one week basketball camp at a rec center. Last day was a "game" to show off to the parents that we learned how to put the ball in the 2 foot high hoop and could sort of bounce it. Multiple parents yelled at the teacher the way you see them argue with high school coaches and my mom noped out immediately.
Yep exactly. If you look in the stands at sporting events you’ll see that they start forming little parent cliques too. It’s ridiculous.
I agree. more so because it leads the school to prioritizing athletic students and giving them privileges and passes people wouldn’t normally have because they’re essentially the school’s cash cow for grants and funding. i can see why they are competitive when it comes to colleges and getting scholarships, but the students should get the same treatment as everyone else does
Not in England I don’t think… might just have been my school but all the decent footballers, who played for teams outside of school, didn’t want to play for the school in case they got injured.
i don't think we treat high school sports anywhere nearly as seriously as americans. For football and cricket mainly, its grassroots which is more important. I played for my cricket team in secondary school, it was generally just a fun thing which let me skive a couple periods.
Yeah literally same. Got to leave the last lesson early to get the bus to the away games. What’s not to like
I remember walking out of maths with the team like ten men
High school sports are an incredibly big deal here in America. We do have “grassroots” teams but they typically end by high school age because all the kids are caught up in the high school team. The grassroots teams also cost money whereas most high school sports don’t charge a fee (you may have some uniforms costs or bus prices here and there but mostly it’s significantly cheaper…..because it’s funded by the school). As a teacher, it’s very frustrating seeing how much money goes towards sports when we need to hire more teachers, make class sizes smaller, and have more/better materials in the schools for *academics* but “there isn’t money” because we aren’t allowed to touch what is earmarked for athletics. Additionally, it’s not uncommon for failing grades and behavior issues to “disappear” from the record when they involve a “star athlete” such as the quarterback. Disclaimer: I was a multi sport athlete in high school and view sports as important. I also don’t think someone should be excluded from teams if they can’t afford the cost. HOWEVER, schools are *supposed* to be focused on academics.
The teams outside of school are far less important than the school teams in the US. The 2nd nost popular sports league in the US is *college* football. Which, while different from high school, is just another school team. High school sports are the leagues that matter here, we don't have the same network of professional academies.
I actually agree. I played sports to get out of class early on game days and make friends. My grades were nothing to write home about and it probably would have been smarter to spend the time in class.
I played because I was pushed into it by my parents. Ended up resenting and hating sports and the people involved in 9th grade. I was lucky that I was able to quit junior year of high school, they were pushing for me to play till I graduated.
I feel this is quite an American thing due to the way your college sport structure works and how college is the obvious route to being a professional sportsman. In much of the world (certainly in Europe at least), if you're going to be a professional footballer, you'd be playing academy games at youth level for a professional club (or a club linked to a professional club) rather than messing about with other 14 year olds who barely know how to kick a ball.
In the country i live, nobody cares about High School sport, or college sport. But if its anything like i have seen on tv shows, in the US where people seem to be obsessed about high school sport and college sport. Than yes i agree Americans are far to obsessed with high school and college sport.
Depends on the country, but in England anyone who's good as a kid plays for an academy. Those don't really exist in the US, so your future professionals play high school/ college ball instead This is especially true for American football - there's really no path to the NFL except playing in college first. You have to be three years out of high school to be drafted and there's no minor league
I guess it depends on how you mean. I wasn't particularly good at sports, but it was my favorite part of the day. I went and got to see all my friends and it was a great way to stay active. I took it seriously because I wanted to do the best I could. To this day, I'm involved in some kind of sport, and even though I'm not particularly good, I take it seriously by paying attention and doing my best during practice. I also try to pay attention to my nutrition and self-care of my body. I guess overall, having a sport in my life has helped me to focus on nutrition and self-care. So, in a sense, I take it seriously, but I don't always see that as a bad thing. I do think it's silly when people take it seriously in a sense of thinking it will get them scholarships, and they'll go pro when they aren't that good.
As someone who played a high school sport. I took as one of the most serious things in my life. Taught me great disciple. Camaraderie. Kept me in shape. And many other things. I think you do have an unpopular opinion. Good job.
As a foreigner who lived in Kansas and attended High School for a year, I’m not sure I agree. Sports here aren’t tied to a school here, so there is way less support. It isn’t a big deal at all. To me, that’s the other end of a spectrum you don’t want to be in. HS sports in the US offer something amazing: a feeling of being part of something bigger. This is something the US (and the rest of the world for that matter) can really use more of right now. Granted, the one end of the spectrum is also a bad place to be, where people take it TOO seriously. It’s about kids, and they’re supposed to have fun and learn about life. Taking this too seriously only hurts them. And keep in mind that there are plenty of other ways to participate.
I did not grow up in the US, but my children were born here. I could never understand the obsession with school sports. My one son loved lacrosse and made a lot of friends on the team. It was a good thing for him. What I couldn’t believe was how seriously the parents take it, signing them up for this camp and that clinic and the other summer league, and driving to tournaments hours away etc. They all had hopes of their kids getting into better colleges because of lacrosse. I would just say “we don’t have to worry about that sort of thing. My kids are smart enough.” I got some dirty looks. My kids went to better colleges than everyone on that team. And they were pretty mediocre players.
It's definitely a US thing. We have quite a bit in common with the US here in Canada but pretty none of the players who go pro in team sports are in leagues through the school system. The athletes at my high school that were considered cool were in the Western Hockey League because they could be drafted to the NHL. The only other students who got scouted from team sports were some lacrosse players who played in the regional league and got scholarships to some American universities. The school didn't have a team in either of those sports. The highschool teams in basketball, volleyball ball and football would have less than 10 spectators a game. Mean while 4000 people would pay to go see the WHL games and some of those guys are in the NHL now.
Why you think this is an unpopular opinion is beyond me. Everyone knows they’re taken too seriously. Most people just don’t care. Why? 1) Because taking them seriously and being competitive is part of the fun of sports to begin with. 2) High school sports is the highest level most people are ever going to play. The students know that and so do their parents. As such, they take them seriously. 3) There are a small percentage that are going to get scholarships. So, of course, they take them seriously.
Maybe where you are. Here we couldn't give less of a shit.
Schools where I live will spend millions on constructing new sports facilities (mostly football but now even wrestling and volleyball) while the English department building is crumbling and doesn’t have a working fire alarm. Also, the fine arts and AP scholars program bring in more scholarship dollars than sports do. Sports don’t make money for the school either. They make money for their own programs and fund the ridiculous stipends that coaches get. I’m a big basketball fan but I hate how much sports is focused on in high school. It literally serves the least amount of students, percentage wise- yet gets huge amounts of funding
People watching Friday night lights rarely get the story that's being told. Those kids were basically destroying themselves for the glory that suddenly fell away when they graduated, just waiting for a new crop of meat next year. It seems better now, I hope so. But hearing how the other coaches were yelling at the kids in my boy's soccer league... Probably not.
It’s way worse now
A lot of life lessons can be learned from playing sports. But the die hardness of HS sports has gotten waaay out of hand in the more recent years I’ll admit.
You should see the parents who have their kids in competitive Go Karting, we’re talking about 10k a weekend for a race. Many will spend over 100k/year.
Well, I would say for most it's because they want to use that as a way into college and therefore you do need to take it seriously. Someone who's doing it for fun isn't going to have the same motivation as someone who's trying to have 4 years of college paid for. Now I do agree there is a fine line between being passionate about the sport and being too serious but it is a VERY fine line. If you're not at least passionate, then why are you even playing? Parents though I do agree, I've seen parents thay I've had to step in and tell them to chill the fuck out and leave the coaches alone
This is only true from the outside looking in. I was lucky enough to play college ball. But even talking to friends back home, a ton of their best memories are on the ball field. Because it was really the only time in high school they gave a damn about something, showed up every day, showed up to the weight room during the offseason and was rewarded for it on the field. Also boiling this down to kids and parents are doing everything they can for scholarships is just wrong. We had 3 people in my high school class play in college. But every team was filled. And every team competed. Being serious about something and teaching your kids that you don’t have to be elite to care is definitely a good thing. The only thing I agree with is the parents who “cheer”. But even they’re such a minority that it doesn’t matter.
Tying scholarships to sports was a terrible decision that has led to so many unnecessary and unintended problems. Like the whole trans sports debate would be totally irrelevant except for sports performance is tied to your future.
So is Little League. Conservative Boomers love to whine about participation trophies, but if they and previous generations hadn't created a society where winning is seen as everything, participation trophies would never in a million years have been necessary.
Yeah, for everyone who gripes about participation trophies, I always get the sense that they’re putting too much weight on the winner trophies. Who gives a shit if your team won the football game because your school has more obese 8-year-olds than the other school?
Only in America
*in America.
Nah, it's important
I don’t think kids can take it “too seriously”. If that’s their thing, good for them. Some parents def take it too seriously, can’t argue that.
Wait till you see intramural sports after all the washed up high school and D3 college starters get out there 10 years later
High school sports are taken so seriously that a significant amount of school money gets pushed to them and leaves the arts in the dust.
> ~~Highschool~~ sports are taken WAY too seriously. Fixed.
Could remove “Highschool” from the sentence and it would be even truer.
In America, yes. Ridiculously so. No other country cares about them like you guys do.
I don’t disagree. School sports were an incredible experience for me. So much camaraderie, friendship, shared experience, unbelievable highs, and just devoting yourself fully to something for years is an amazing experience…but at the same time it was insane. I had so much stress, fear, and disappointment in myself throughout HS because of how all consuming xc and track were. How one of my couches would treat literally children is in retrospect ridiculous. He fully lived vicariously through us. The time demands were brutal on top of homework. The sport just never stopped year round. Great experience…but it would be better if everyone collectively agreed that giving 80% was sufficient
Sooo true! Can't play anything for fun anymore. Everything has to be competetive.
Life is short. Seize the moment because once’s it’s gone, it’s gone forever. 🤷
Sports are just as important as academics. It teaches coordination, discipline, teamwork, dedication, etc Sports are the only thing some kids have if they're not academically adept or in a destructive environment. If academics can be taken seriously, why not sports, arts, music, and such?
IMO I disagree that they are taken too serious. I was a Multi-sport athlete from age 5 up till I graduated. I was dedicated, morning and after school practices, never missed practice or games unless I was deathly ill. I wasn't allowed a job in high school if I wanted to participate in sports because that was my "Job". It created a lot of good qualities in myself. My work ethic, leadership skills, being healthy, amongst some other qualities as well. Now I knew I wasn't going to the NBA, NFL, MLB but I still took it as serious as if I was going to be going. I ended up getting a couple $500 scholarships from the sports I played (not like full ride stuff, just some scholarships to help with the bills. I went to a small community college) Many things in school aren't taken serious enough mainly education, but I'm glad that sports are still getting kids to do things, learn specific talents, learn who they are as a person, it really does shape who you are. Of course just my opinion though!
It’s wild because these parents honestly think that their kids can go pro if they spend more money on trainers, travel teams, etc. if you’ve ever had the privilege of seeing a future pro athlete playing high school sports it’s unmistakable, you KNOW they’re going pro.
Sports in general... don't get me wrong, a lot of athletes have very impressive skills. It's just the die hard superfans, and super extravagant events/sports culture that feels over the top.
What? No one cares here. Its an American phenomenon.
Because it’s all run by adults who haven’t yet grown up.
But I think athletes should take it very seriously. Odds are this is the only time they will compete at this official level. The meaning of life is the meaning we pour into it. And to pour heavy meaning into this brief period of life where you are competing, win or lose, adds purpose to your life for a brief period.
I'd expand that to say that sports are taken too seriously in general. The fact that sports riots are a thing is ridiculous.
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While people likely do go a little overboard, the pros outweigh the cons. Increases physical fitness and social aptitude. [Athletes do better in school](https://news.ku.edu/news/article/2014/01/15/study-shows-high-school-athletes-performed-better-school-persisted-graduation-more-non). And of course, if you hope to get into an elite school involvement in athletics is increasingly a requirement. Stellar GPA and SAT alone won’t do the trick.
Athletes do better in school IF the school still places academics as the first priority. But many do not. Student athletes regularly miss instruction, and anybody acting like this won't negatively affect academic outcomes is delusional. You can certainly do a whole lot better academically when you don't have to commit to athletics too. Stellar GPA and test scores actually can still get people into excellent schools, it happens all the time. Administrators just push athletics because they bring money in. Apart from improving physical health sports do not do anything for students that could not also be accomplished by participating in a school club.
Fucking weird to ignore any other sort of activity like the arts. You don’t get CTE from playing the violin.
YOU don’t get CTE from playing the violin. Do not speak for everyone.
I don’t agree with this post.
Highschool in general is taken too seriously. My husband just did well in college after getting straight F's in hs, and is making 6 figures now. I got straight A's and became a sahm
As someone who lives outside the US, I can not disagree with you more. There is no path through school to any sort of professional sports. If you play for a school team you will have to almost always pursue it privately. In the US there is a direct path from school sports to professional leagues meaning low income people and committed athletes have an easier path to the pros and getting noticed.
I agree - because I'm English, and here in England, senior school sports are not a big deal at all. Nobody gets accepted for university here because of their sporting prowess.
Americans take a lot of shit Way too seriously
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Don’t disagree but my unpopular thought is: ELITE sports are taken way to seriously (funding could go to feeding & housing people and healthcare)
I don't think you realise how money works. The half a billion a nfl team makes in a year isn't magically gonna end up going to health care. That money just disappears and stays in very peoples pockets. No one is getting hurt by a team just existing. If anything, they are a net positive because it can be a great way for a select few to get out of poverty.