Read about how close to liquidation Amtrak came to in the early 2000s. Ironically, Bush's appointment of David Gunn undermined the whole scheme. [Firing him for being too effective at getting money from Congress *really* sealed it.](https://observer.com/2005/12/throw-david-gunn-from-the-trains-his-amtrak-sack/) Congress did not appreciate being played for fools and kept the funding coming partly out of spite.
Crazy how far things have come since then.
Investing in more rail would save money in the long run. It is cheaper to operate rail than roads. If we were to continue building rail, adding an option for frieght companies to pay a fee to use (gov owns tracks similar to roads), we could ship even more goods via rail. Probably need their own dedicated track but better than how many trucks on the roads. Would greatly reduce wear and tear + could reduce some lanes on interstates.
Preach. Rail needs to be expanded. Long distance at least, cargo should be moved in bulk. Maybe we can even start standardizing on a design (containers?) to build distribution yards that will move containers from trains onto trucks for local deliveries.
The history of Japan’s shinkansen system sort of played out like this. IIRC it was a calculated move.
It still is paying dividends today in encouraging mobility/transportation and keeping costs/housing costs down for the average consumer.
I'm so sad that my city tore up all of it's train stations and track (only freight lines now). Now it's classic suburban sprawl and I have no idea if we will ever be able to have effective transit. Even the busses inside downtown are only as frequent as 30 minute intervals.
> Now it's classic suburban sprawl and I have no idea if we will ever be able to have effective transit.
A difficult reality many of us will have to face is that a lot of areas of the US are past the point of "saving". My aunt/uncle live in a neighborhood like [this](https://b2223323.smushcdn.com/2223323/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Duluth-GA-Aerial-View-of-Suburb-Near-Atlanta-in-the-Small-Town-of-Duluth-Georgia-on-a-Sunny-Day.jpg?lossy=1&strip=1&webp=1). So take this sort of housing development style and copy/paste it across a ~10-12 square mile area. That is what their entire city looks like with a few stroads mixed in with Target, Walmart, Publix, random strip mall spots and drive thru fast food places.
I don't know how we can realistically improve places like that. Also factoring in the reality that many of the folks living there don't want it to change.
That's a good point. The more our cities keep this suburbanization attitude, the harder it will be to pull back and shift towards mass transit. There would have to be a good deal of painful eminent domain-ing to get even half-way decent rail laid in a more built up town.
On the other hand, maybe we need to think more holistically about it. There are fewer areas of undeveloped land where rail can be built, but where it can, you could build a multimodal station with some sort of connection to the populated areas, like bus, streetcar, etc.
I spent multiple years doing a 5 hour round trip on busy highways every single weekend, between two large-ish Midwestern cities. It would make me so mad thinking about how I could have been on a train, high on an edible and playing video games.
Imagine they made the bar the attraction of Amtrak. Like, a fully decked out bar car with happy hour specials and shit.
“Don’t drink and drive. Drink and ride…Amtrak.”
Deutsche Bahn in Germany has done so for the ICE in the past. Although to be fair it is pricy and the service is slow (understaffed) so there is always a queue. I only ever waited in line for the free toys my children get when riding the train.
The Thalys between Cologne and Paris was better. It has meals included in the ticket and they come by your seat like stewardesses on an air plane and ask you whether you want anything. The coffee was actually good the last time I went.
I used to ride Amtrak fairly often from Chicago to Iowa, maybe 8 hrs or so with all the stops included. They 100% served alcohol at the time. And I would always bring a bottle of rum.
Never once did I not end up making "train friends". I found the secret was to get off and chat with folks at the smoking stops. Almost always ended up passing my rum around. Then we'd go back and play cards or hang out at the little bar/snack train thing.
On most occasions I'd be pretty lit by the time I reached my destination and waiting for someone to pick me up. Man those were fun times. Met some strange and interesting characters along the way.
I live in Grand Rapids.
If we had proper high speed rail connecting me to Chicago, Detroit, or even Indianapolis, it would take MAYBE an hour at 220mph.
Currently, however, here are the options I have.
GRR to Chicago: Driving takes 3ish hours
Amtrak: Trains leave at 6am or 3pm. Nothing in between and takes either 4 hours in the PM or 9 hours in the PM.
South Shore line: Multiple trains running every day, but I have to drive about two hours south to Michigan City, Indiana. Then they put you on a coach bus and take you to Gary, Indiana where you catch the train into Chicago.
GRR to DET: Driving takes 3ish hours
No direct passenger trains run that connect the 2 largest cities in Michigan. You need to drive to either Kalamazoo (45 min) or Lansing (1 hr) and then take a 3-4 hour train.
GRR to INDY: Driving takes 4 hours
Amtrak search results return a 17 hour trip with 2 layovers. 😂
To rub salt to the wound, I have literally raced my friend’s flight from Chicago to GRR (ala top gear) and got to the airport 20 minutes before he got off the plane.
What a sorry excuse for infrastructure.
TLDR: I would kill to be able to make train friends.
It's a completely different context but sort of an equivalent, in London the ferries that go down the Thames are more expensive and slower than taking other public transit almost 100% of the time, but something they advertise as a selling point is that they have a bar to order drinks and snacks from on each boat - definitely something that tempts a few commuters to use them after work, plus raises revenue.
I took one from Louisiana to Chicago and they definitely did. One free drink was included with the ticket. We also brought a bottle of wine on board with us to drink in the observation car.
We just got back from a visit to Chicago and Minneapolis (from MA) and I was so mad when I looked up “trains from Chicago to MN” and saw the story about the HSR project getting killed there. Screw you Scott Walker for making me fly
most people end up flying for honestly competitive for the cost of gas on some trips, better even, and get their $9 brandy old fashioned along with complementary stroopwaffle.
It would be nice if Amtrak could at least install bike racks outside of all of its major stations. There are absolutely no bike racks outside of Union Station in Washington, DC and Penn Station in New York City. Considering that both cities have a large number of bicycle commuters and have many miles of protected bike paths, this situation makes no sense. A good example of an Amtrak station that has bike racks outside its major entrances is Philadelphia’s 30th Street Station.
I doubt there are many people on this sub who (1) can vote in US elections and (2) are somehow undecided as to whom to vote for, but if there are any, please remember that a vote for Trump (or rather, a vote for anyone but Biden, if you're lucky enough to live in one of the few states where your vote actually matters; side note, fuck the Electoral College) is a vote to make Amtrak live hand to mouth again. Elections have consequences, and while the deterioration or demise of Amtrak would be far from the only terrible consequence of letting Trump anywhere near the White House again, every little bit matters.
There are however lots of people who 3) can't be bothered to vote and 4) don't think their vote counts for much in their state. The data matters, all sorts of organizations cut up and use that data to make decisions and that also has consequences.
the amount of funding that is needed just to bring the system up to even keel of some of the other first world nations is probably larger than the defense budget if we are being realistic. we are looking at close to a century of deferred infrastructure building at this point.
Seattle's light rail from West Seattle to Seattle went 3x over budget and is now $148b and rising.
Germany's entire 387 mile high speed rail system cost (inlation adjusted) $19b.
The UK'S hs2 140 mile high speed rail expansion is now going to cost $57b, and people are outraged.
At some point we have to care about cost because currently its not worth it
I always chuckle when conservatives decline to apportion funds for things like public goods, in this case Amtrak. 'Amtrak must stand on its own and fund itself through ticket sales!" they say. What nobody talks about is that NO form of transportation infrastructure can survive purely on fares from users or "customers". As if I elected to take a car because growing up in NE ohio there were SO many other plentiful options /s. You don't see anybody making these arguments that loudly about airports, highways, or bridges. It is all paid for by local, state, and federal funding of some mix at the end of the day. The idea that Amtrak gets treated like ass by our government historically is hilarious in this context. You can tell how much cars and roads have infiltrated our minds and our planning and how people think about America, up until you dare to travel to a foreign country and realize rail-based travel is everywhere and very effective in places like Europe and Japan and when planned and effective it creates amazing new opportunities. America needs more passenger rail, and we needed it 50 years ago.
The is in fact one way to actually run a railway profitably! Its the amazing labour minimisation technique of *high speed rail* , faster the train is the less hours you gotta pay the driver🧐
You may also be able to make an argument about new taxes being generated by net new activities created by rail. It does not pay for the rail directly necessarily but could fund local and/or state initiatives which wouldn't previously exist. For instance if high speed rail existed between CLE and CBUS you could take a bullet train to work in CBUS and make more money in tech there, you make more money and now you're paying more taxes into where you work vs making less money in CLE and potentially fewer net taxes. Simple example but I think it shows you can get people to new opportunities with fast transport, which creates other positive externalities (maybe you buy property there, maybe you spend money at more businesses there, more activity = more business and tax revenues collected, etc). Plus the obvious benefit of not actually having to buy a new car to do the driving yourself. No risk of speeding tickets, car accidents, being stuck on the highway, bad drivers pissing you off, etc.
I recently did a land analysis of my small town, and each parking spot cost about $1,000 annually to have. So people not parking can add up really quick for our town
Parking in America is hilarious and sad. Climate Town did a great video on it for their YT channel. Urban planning has built it into our cities and towns and it is an enormous subsidy to car owners. And there is no standard by which they determined how many parking spots you need for which establishment. It's completely subjective. All it does is contribute to suburban stroad sprawl and and bleeds taxpayers dry , which causes them to build even more so that they can get more revenue from other towns, which makes everything further away, which essentially mandates car ownership, which means more cars and therefore parking lots, and the whole thing snowballs until you get disgusting endless suburban sprawl. There is work being done to abolish mandatory municipal parking standards because it also kills small business and neighborhood revitalization efforts (imagine you have a small downtown area and you wish to open an eatery or a bar. you now have to buy the building you want AND the building next to it in order to have enough mandatory parking spots for your business that it prevents you from spending the money in the first place). Check out Climate Towns YT video and channel, they're great.
Man, that same argument could be used for highways. I'm sure everyone would be thrilled about the idea, then propose a public transportation funding bill that may include 20% of the funds for road maintenance while expanding funding for everything else except for air travel.
Some state legislators have historically denied federal funding for rail improvements…not every state has agreed to accept funds from Biden’s big infrastructure bill…what the fuck? These politicians are just lobbyists, it’s disgusting.
The executives certainly aren't living hand to mouth. Their salaries are ridiculous for what the American people get.
I'm all for trains, but if we're gonna do it, let's actually do it. Enough half assing.
I mean, executive salaries are crazy but it's hard for me to get fired up about him making $800k incl. bonuses. That's 1/3 of what the CEO of DB makes just as base salary. That's a tiny fraction of the $14-16 million of the total compensation of the CEOs of CSX, Norfolk Southern, or Union Pacific. Like, if they were in it for the money they would just go there.
Deutsche Bahn provides a working service. I don't really care what the CEO makes because I can actually use the service. The tickets are reasonably priced, and I can get just about anywhere. The delays and strikes are annoying as shit, but beyond that....I mean, hell, that's how I'd get to the city whenever I wanted to go.
Amtrak is barely usable. It only serves a few areas if you're lucky enough to live in one of those cities. It's expensive and time-consuming when it doesn't have to be, and it's been the government's afterthought since it was conceived.
It's not that it's entirely the Amtrak executive's fault since the budget comes from above them.
I don't think 10 different executives should be getting paid upwards of 500,000 with 200,000 bonuses without providing good service, even if it's a fraction of what other transportation executives earn.
>
> I don't think 10 different executives should be getting paid upwards of 500,000 with 200,000 bonuses without providing good service, EVEN if it's a fraction of what other transportation executives earn.
If your goal is to revitalize a public service and attract competent management then that's exactly what you should be doing.
>I don't think 10 different executives should be getting paid upwards of 500,000 with 200,000 bonuses without providing good service, EVEN if it's a fraction of what other transportation executives earn.
Okay, so what would you pay them? You need to attract talent, they're in charge of almost every passenger train in the country. If the job paid $25/hr, nobody would do it, especially not anybody competent. I realize that's probably way lower than you had in mind, but you know, as a thought experiment.
I hear you.
The useless and incompetent tend to camp out in government jobs because they're relatively stable, so ideally, I'd like to pay the Amtrak executives based on performance.
The exact dollar amount, admittedly, I don't know what would be fair.
800,000 is not remotely a ridiculous amount for that role, if you want to attract competent people whatsoever who aren’t purely in it for the love of the game
I hear you.
I don't think it's too radical to hold government employees accountable for less than ideal infrastructure, though.
Those people are making that money regardless of whether the service works for everyone else.
I realize the rails are largely owned by freight companies.
It doesn't change the fact that people should be held accountable, although to change that, it would have to be at the DOT level.
>Deutsche Bahn provides a working service.
As someone living in Germany and taking Deutsche Bahn multiple times per week, I have to respectfully disagree.
>Deutsche Bahn provides a working service.
As someone living in Germany and taking Deutsche Bahn multiple times per week, I have to respectfully disagree.
>Deutsche Bahn provides a working service.
As someone living in Germany and taking Deutsche Bahn multiple times per week, I have to respectfully disagree.
Do you want shitty executive leadership? Because I can attest from personal experience that is how you get shitty executive leadership.
Though I think I would prefer if the situation was reversed and we had poorly-paid and shitty executive leadership in our middling national rail system and well-compensated and effective executive leadership in our enormous defense and social service bureaucracies.
>Deutsche Bahn provides a working service.
As someone living in Germany and taking Deutsche Bahn multiple times per week, I have to respectfully disagree.
>Deutsche Bahn provides a working service.
As someone living in Germany and taking Deutsche Bahn multiple times per week, I have to respectfully disagree.
>Deutsche Bahn provides a working service.
As someone living in Germany and taking Deutsche Bahn multiple times per week, I have to respectfully disagree.
Just rode Amtrak last weekend. The service was terrible and the two stop tickets for two people drastically overpriced at $158 Vancouver WA to Centralia WA and back.
Sorry, I'm not understanding the implication of this comment, could you elaborate? Sanders and Biden are on the same team and are constantly working together to get things like this passed, Biden from the White House and Sanders on various committees, including Budget.
Read about how close to liquidation Amtrak came to in the early 2000s. Ironically, Bush's appointment of David Gunn undermined the whole scheme. [Firing him for being too effective at getting money from Congress *really* sealed it.](https://observer.com/2005/12/throw-david-gunn-from-the-trains-his-amtrak-sack/) Congress did not appreciate being played for fools and kept the funding coming partly out of spite. Crazy how far things have come since then.
Didn't think I'd find a new reason to hate Bush today but wow
if we can dream it, we can do it
I'm certainly looking forward to seeing Amtrak's new *horizons.* ;)
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If there was ever something to go into a trillion dollars of debt for, it would be funding for local and regional train construction
Investing in more rail would save money in the long run. It is cheaper to operate rail than roads. If we were to continue building rail, adding an option for frieght companies to pay a fee to use (gov owns tracks similar to roads), we could ship even more goods via rail. Probably need their own dedicated track but better than how many trucks on the roads. Would greatly reduce wear and tear + could reduce some lanes on interstates.
Preach. Rail needs to be expanded. Long distance at least, cargo should be moved in bulk. Maybe we can even start standardizing on a design (containers?) to build distribution yards that will move containers from trains onto trucks for local deliveries.
Nah it so this guy can get loaded before having to see his family
One trillion dollars of brandy, please!
The history of Japan’s shinkansen system sort of played out like this. IIRC it was a calculated move. It still is paying dividends today in encouraging mobility/transportation and keeping costs/housing costs down for the average consumer.
Also notably was horrifically over budget! not at all relevant today im sure
And paying dividends today
I'm so sad that my city tore up all of it's train stations and track (only freight lines now). Now it's classic suburban sprawl and I have no idea if we will ever be able to have effective transit. Even the busses inside downtown are only as frequent as 30 minute intervals.
> Now it's classic suburban sprawl and I have no idea if we will ever be able to have effective transit. A difficult reality many of us will have to face is that a lot of areas of the US are past the point of "saving". My aunt/uncle live in a neighborhood like [this](https://b2223323.smushcdn.com/2223323/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Duluth-GA-Aerial-View-of-Suburb-Near-Atlanta-in-the-Small-Town-of-Duluth-Georgia-on-a-Sunny-Day.jpg?lossy=1&strip=1&webp=1). So take this sort of housing development style and copy/paste it across a ~10-12 square mile area. That is what their entire city looks like with a few stroads mixed in with Target, Walmart, Publix, random strip mall spots and drive thru fast food places. I don't know how we can realistically improve places like that. Also factoring in the reality that many of the folks living there don't want it to change.
That's a good point. The more our cities keep this suburbanization attitude, the harder it will be to pull back and shift towards mass transit. There would have to be a good deal of painful eminent domain-ing to get even half-way decent rail laid in a more built up town. On the other hand, maybe we need to think more holistically about it. There are fewer areas of undeveloped land where rail can be built, but where it can, you could build a multimodal station with some sort of connection to the populated areas, like bus, streetcar, etc.
Just relax zoning restrictions, rebuild cities and build proper rapid transit (not streetcars)
Far easier said than done I'm afraid. Lots of political will is necessary to muster.
Are you sure you don’t wanna ride a streetcar for 9 hours to a neighbouring city
That’s just a bus with extra steps and worse they were torn up globally they don’t measure up to people’s needs
I spent multiple years doing a 5 hour round trip on busy highways every single weekend, between two large-ish Midwestern cities. It would make me so mad thinking about how I could have been on a train, high on an edible and playing video games.
I'm assuming you're either in or from Wisconsin, but Wisconsin doesn't let you drink on a train.
Imagine they made the bar the attraction of Amtrak. Like, a fully decked out bar car with happy hour specials and shit. “Don’t drink and drive. Drink and ride…Amtrak.”
Deutsche Bahn in Germany has done so for the ICE in the past. Although to be fair it is pricy and the service is slow (understaffed) so there is always a queue. I only ever waited in line for the free toys my children get when riding the train. The Thalys between Cologne and Paris was better. It has meals included in the ticket and they come by your seat like stewardesses on an air plane and ask you whether you want anything. The coffee was actually good the last time I went.
I used to ride Amtrak fairly often from Chicago to Iowa, maybe 8 hrs or so with all the stops included. They 100% served alcohol at the time. And I would always bring a bottle of rum. Never once did I not end up making "train friends". I found the secret was to get off and chat with folks at the smoking stops. Almost always ended up passing my rum around. Then we'd go back and play cards or hang out at the little bar/snack train thing. On most occasions I'd be pretty lit by the time I reached my destination and waiting for someone to pick me up. Man those were fun times. Met some strange and interesting characters along the way.
I live in Grand Rapids. If we had proper high speed rail connecting me to Chicago, Detroit, or even Indianapolis, it would take MAYBE an hour at 220mph. Currently, however, here are the options I have. GRR to Chicago: Driving takes 3ish hours Amtrak: Trains leave at 6am or 3pm. Nothing in between and takes either 4 hours in the PM or 9 hours in the PM. South Shore line: Multiple trains running every day, but I have to drive about two hours south to Michigan City, Indiana. Then they put you on a coach bus and take you to Gary, Indiana where you catch the train into Chicago. GRR to DET: Driving takes 3ish hours No direct passenger trains run that connect the 2 largest cities in Michigan. You need to drive to either Kalamazoo (45 min) or Lansing (1 hr) and then take a 3-4 hour train. GRR to INDY: Driving takes 4 hours Amtrak search results return a 17 hour trip with 2 layovers. 😂 To rub salt to the wound, I have literally raced my friend’s flight from Chicago to GRR (ala top gear) and got to the airport 20 minutes before he got off the plane. What a sorry excuse for infrastructure. TLDR: I would kill to be able to make train friends.
The South shore line has restored full service tho no longer running the bus shuttles
It's a completely different context but sort of an equivalent, in London the ferries that go down the Thames are more expensive and slower than taking other public transit almost 100% of the time, but something they advertise as a selling point is that they have a bar to order drinks and snacks from on each boat - definitely something that tempts a few commuters to use them after work, plus raises revenue.
Finnish trains also have a restaurant carriage where you can get alcohol
I'm pretty sure they sell alcohol on board at least some routes.
I took one from Louisiana to Chicago and they definitely did. One free drink was included with the ticket. We also brought a bottle of wine on board with us to drink in the observation car.
From NYC to Boston has a cafe / bar car. All pretty reasonably priced too.
We just got back from a visit to Chicago and Minneapolis (from MA) and I was so mad when I looked up “trains from Chicago to MN” and saw the story about the HSR project getting killed there. Screw you Scott Walker for making me fly
Now if only they could run on schedule, that'd be awesome.
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If it's sharing tracks with freight, it will be delayed by freight. They need to have separate tracks so that everyone runs on schedule.
most people end up flying for honestly competitive for the cost of gas on some trips, better even, and get their $9 brandy old fashioned along with complementary stroopwaffle.
It would be nice if Amtrak could at least install bike racks outside of all of its major stations. There are absolutely no bike racks outside of Union Station in Washington, DC and Penn Station in New York City. Considering that both cities have a large number of bicycle commuters and have many miles of protected bike paths, this situation makes no sense. A good example of an Amtrak station that has bike racks outside its major entrances is Philadelphia’s 30th Street Station.
Or better yet turn some of the vacant store fronts into long term indoor bike storage
They would get stolen in both of those neighborhoods
We have electronic bike lockers at train stations in the SF Bay Area. They're secure for long term storage at most stations they're available.
Yes! Bike storage at stations in general would be super helpful.
I’m happy to hear about the Borealis. Going to Chicago to MPLS is a breeze now .
Amtrak Joe taking care of all that underfunding malarkey.
I doubt there are many people on this sub who (1) can vote in US elections and (2) are somehow undecided as to whom to vote for, but if there are any, please remember that a vote for Trump (or rather, a vote for anyone but Biden, if you're lucky enough to live in one of the few states where your vote actually matters; side note, fuck the Electoral College) is a vote to make Amtrak live hand to mouth again. Elections have consequences, and while the deterioration or demise of Amtrak would be far from the only terrible consequence of letting Trump anywhere near the White House again, every little bit matters.
There are however lots of people who 3) can't be bothered to vote and 4) don't think their vote counts for much in their state. The data matters, all sorts of organizations cut up and use that data to make decisions and that also has consequences.
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the amount of funding that is needed just to bring the system up to even keel of some of the other first world nations is probably larger than the defense budget if we are being realistic. we are looking at close to a century of deferred infrastructure building at this point.
The best time to start was yesterday. The second best time is now.
Seattle's light rail from West Seattle to Seattle went 3x over budget and is now $148b and rising. Germany's entire 387 mile high speed rail system cost (inlation adjusted) $19b. The UK'S hs2 140 mile high speed rail expansion is now going to cost $57b, and people are outraged. At some point we have to care about cost because currently its not worth it
I always chuckle when conservatives decline to apportion funds for things like public goods, in this case Amtrak. 'Amtrak must stand on its own and fund itself through ticket sales!" they say. What nobody talks about is that NO form of transportation infrastructure can survive purely on fares from users or "customers". As if I elected to take a car because growing up in NE ohio there were SO many other plentiful options /s. You don't see anybody making these arguments that loudly about airports, highways, or bridges. It is all paid for by local, state, and federal funding of some mix at the end of the day. The idea that Amtrak gets treated like ass by our government historically is hilarious in this context. You can tell how much cars and roads have infiltrated our minds and our planning and how people think about America, up until you dare to travel to a foreign country and realize rail-based travel is everywhere and very effective in places like Europe and Japan and when planned and effective it creates amazing new opportunities. America needs more passenger rail, and we needed it 50 years ago.
The is in fact one way to actually run a railway profitably! Its the amazing labour minimisation technique of *high speed rail* , faster the train is the less hours you gotta pay the driver🧐
You may also be able to make an argument about new taxes being generated by net new activities created by rail. It does not pay for the rail directly necessarily but could fund local and/or state initiatives which wouldn't previously exist. For instance if high speed rail existed between CLE and CBUS you could take a bullet train to work in CBUS and make more money in tech there, you make more money and now you're paying more taxes into where you work vs making less money in CLE and potentially fewer net taxes. Simple example but I think it shows you can get people to new opportunities with fast transport, which creates other positive externalities (maybe you buy property there, maybe you spend money at more businesses there, more activity = more business and tax revenues collected, etc). Plus the obvious benefit of not actually having to buy a new car to do the driving yourself. No risk of speeding tickets, car accidents, being stuck on the highway, bad drivers pissing you off, etc.
China: WE TOLD YOU SO
I recently did a land analysis of my small town, and each parking spot cost about $1,000 annually to have. So people not parking can add up really quick for our town
Parking in America is hilarious and sad. Climate Town did a great video on it for their YT channel. Urban planning has built it into our cities and towns and it is an enormous subsidy to car owners. And there is no standard by which they determined how many parking spots you need for which establishment. It's completely subjective. All it does is contribute to suburban stroad sprawl and and bleeds taxpayers dry , which causes them to build even more so that they can get more revenue from other towns, which makes everything further away, which essentially mandates car ownership, which means more cars and therefore parking lots, and the whole thing snowballs until you get disgusting endless suburban sprawl. There is work being done to abolish mandatory municipal parking standards because it also kills small business and neighborhood revitalization efforts (imagine you have a small downtown area and you wish to open an eatery or a bar. you now have to buy the building you want AND the building next to it in order to have enough mandatory parking spots for your business that it prevents you from spending the money in the first place). Check out Climate Towns YT video and channel, they're great.
Man, that same argument could be used for highways. I'm sure everyone would be thrilled about the idea, then propose a public transportation funding bill that may include 20% of the funds for road maintenance while expanding funding for everything else except for air travel.
I’d love to see every local, state, and federal road have a toll for a year for Americans to see how much it’s actually subsidized.
Some state legislators have historically denied federal funding for rail improvements…not every state has agreed to accept funds from Biden’s big infrastructure bill…what the fuck? These politicians are just lobbyists, it’s disgusting.
The executives certainly aren't living hand to mouth. Their salaries are ridiculous for what the American people get. I'm all for trains, but if we're gonna do it, let's actually do it. Enough half assing.
I mean, executive salaries are crazy but it's hard for me to get fired up about him making $800k incl. bonuses. That's 1/3 of what the CEO of DB makes just as base salary. That's a tiny fraction of the $14-16 million of the total compensation of the CEOs of CSX, Norfolk Southern, or Union Pacific. Like, if they were in it for the money they would just go there.
Deutsche Bahn provides a working service. I don't really care what the CEO makes because I can actually use the service. The tickets are reasonably priced, and I can get just about anywhere. The delays and strikes are annoying as shit, but beyond that....I mean, hell, that's how I'd get to the city whenever I wanted to go. Amtrak is barely usable. It only serves a few areas if you're lucky enough to live in one of those cities. It's expensive and time-consuming when it doesn't have to be, and it's been the government's afterthought since it was conceived. It's not that it's entirely the Amtrak executive's fault since the budget comes from above them. I don't think 10 different executives should be getting paid upwards of 500,000 with 200,000 bonuses without providing good service, even if it's a fraction of what other transportation executives earn.
> > I don't think 10 different executives should be getting paid upwards of 500,000 with 200,000 bonuses without providing good service, EVEN if it's a fraction of what other transportation executives earn. If your goal is to revitalize a public service and attract competent management then that's exactly what you should be doing.
Well, you'd probably know better than me on how to go about that.
>I don't think 10 different executives should be getting paid upwards of 500,000 with 200,000 bonuses without providing good service, EVEN if it's a fraction of what other transportation executives earn. Okay, so what would you pay them? You need to attract talent, they're in charge of almost every passenger train in the country. If the job paid $25/hr, nobody would do it, especially not anybody competent. I realize that's probably way lower than you had in mind, but you know, as a thought experiment.
I hear you. The useless and incompetent tend to camp out in government jobs because they're relatively stable, so ideally, I'd like to pay the Amtrak executives based on performance. The exact dollar amount, admittedly, I don't know what would be fair.
800,000 is not remotely a ridiculous amount for that role, if you want to attract competent people whatsoever who aren’t purely in it for the love of the game
I hear you. I don't think it's too radical to hold government employees accountable for less than ideal infrastructure, though. Those people are making that money regardless of whether the service works for everyone else.
Please look up who owns the vast majority of the infrastructure used by Amtrak.
I realize the rails are largely owned by freight companies. It doesn't change the fact that people should be held accountable, although to change that, it would have to be at the DOT level.
The DOT, and certainly the leaders of Amtrak, are not responsible for poorly maintained private infrastructure.
No, but they are responsible for the lack of public infrastructure.
The president of Amtrak is not responsible for the lack of nationalized railways.
>Deutsche Bahn provides a working service. As someone living in Germany and taking Deutsche Bahn multiple times per week, I have to respectfully disagree.
>Deutsche Bahn provides a working service. As someone living in Germany and taking Deutsche Bahn multiple times per week, I have to respectfully disagree.
>Deutsche Bahn provides a working service. As someone living in Germany and taking Deutsche Bahn multiple times per week, I have to respectfully disagree.
I agree, their salaries should be capped like real federal employees are.
Just fully nationalize it. No sense nearly fully funding a private company and not nationalizing it.
Do you want shitty executive leadership? Because I can attest from personal experience that is how you get shitty executive leadership. Though I think I would prefer if the situation was reversed and we had poorly-paid and shitty executive leadership in our middling national rail system and well-compensated and effective executive leadership in our enormous defense and social service bureaucracies.
Well, I just came from the Army, and I can attest to what that leadership looks like. Government will Government.
I don’t see what the problem is here, soldier. Mold and a needlessly high ops tempo builds character.
>Deutsche Bahn provides a working service. As someone living in Germany and taking Deutsche Bahn multiple times per week, I have to respectfully disagree.
>Deutsche Bahn provides a working service. As someone living in Germany and taking Deutsche Bahn multiple times per week, I have to respectfully disagree.
>Deutsche Bahn provides a working service. As someone living in Germany and taking Deutsche Bahn multiple times per week, I have to respectfully disagree.
Just rode Amtrak last weekend. The service was terrible and the two stop tickets for two people drastically overpriced at $158 Vancouver WA to Centralia WA and back.
So it begins
Bring back the Emeryville to Truckee Ski Train!!!!
Remember when the NUMOT fb group endorsed sanders over Biden.
Sorry, I'm not understanding the implication of this comment, could you elaborate? Sanders and Biden are on the same team and are constantly working together to get things like this passed, Biden from the White House and Sanders on various committees, including Budget.