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That especially seems logical from the north shore since you would otherwise have to drive an hour or so anyway. (either to Tsawwassen and then 30 mins into town or from Nanaimo to Victoria)
I'm guessing a lot of people will do that - meaning, there will be long waits to get over to Nanaimo too. It's like if there is an accident on the Lions Gate Bridge and the Second Narrows gets super backed up.
The ferry is pretty expensive for a family to drive over and back again. You could take the money and spend it with the exchange rate by vacationing in Washington?
Come to Alberta or Saskatchewan, where breathing the air is as bad as smoking, the mosquitos are the size of hummingbirds, and our shallow lakes are full of algae and swimmers itch.
There are fires on the island, Victoria is expensive as fuck, and the rural islanders especially are constantly drunk because what else is there to do? Why are you so keen to go to the island given your filters?
Depends on the weather, but not something to take lightly. I crossed back from Porlier Pass to Vancouver last Tuesday. The ocean was a mill pond, but it was stupidly hot, and the wind was blowing at the same speed and direction we were traveling, so it was miserable for 5 hours.
I don't think we've seen this situation for a while; a major ship out of service due to a major defect during the busy travel season.
Usually, BC Ferries is extremely good about sending ships into their annual refits prior to the summer, but in this case, *Coastal Celebration* was both late coming out of refit, and had a defect immediately after she was pushed back into service. Everything else just flows from there.
It is clear this summer that BC Ferries simply isn't meeting the needs of the province anymore and it is just going to get worse as they don't seem to be doing anything about it. The ferries are an integral part of travel between the island and the mainland, and a multi-sailing wait on any weekday is simply unacceptable.
They still have a mandate as part of the agreement with the govt to not to cut any routes or service, this is consistent enough to be considered cutting service maybe, I wonder.
According to BC Ferries' 2022 financial report, Quite literally the only two routes that are revenue positive are Tsawwassen-Swartz Bay and Horsehoe Bay-Nanaimo.
The losses on the minor and northern routes are astronomical, and dwarf the positive revenue of those two major routes.
> The losses on the minor and northern routes are astronomical, and dwarf the positive revenue of those two major routes.
[And yet, they still decide its a great idea to push all executive pay up 10-18%](https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/b-c-ferries-executive-pay-soars-despite-damning-report)
Doing this like this is how you create a financially "negative" company. The operations for a business like this are not to create profits... its to line the pockets of their elites and then tell the public theyre "losing money" so need more public funding.
No amount of work is going to make those routes profitable, unless service is cut. Yet the government forces them to run those routes and keep those services levels. Exectutive pay increases are literally a drop in the bucket compared to those.
So here we are.
Noone asks whether building roads is profitable. Why should this be any different?
It's just showing how poorly these companies are being run. Executive pay increases by extreme amounts while they continue to cut services and fire workers. It makes no sense other than trying to suck out more funding. If it was wholly public owned, we wouldn't have these issues.
[They have in the past and it's arguably they should as well.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/coquihalla-highway-tolls-dropped-says-b-c-premier-1.727989)
Tolls and parking fees make a lot of sense.
The university I went to charged $40/semester for parking, and it cost them over $500/space just in maintenance. It was the most ridiculous accounting I had heard of, particularly because I walked to school, so was literally subsidizing someone else's parking space.
I always thought it was weird that this extremely expensive infrastructure like street parking and 8 lane freeways is often 100% free, while the skytrain costs $3/use.
We are bringing a lot of people to BC as is pretty obvious. We do not have the infrastructure to support this many people. Next year a ship goes down and it will be a 12 sailing wait. It is what it is. And nothing is going to improve while we stay on this course.
Not just immigration, but migration. Especially to the island. It's Canada's resort/retirement community. We're totally fucked. Starbucks needs to pay 35$ an hour for people to live on the island to serve the wealthy class their mocha frap. That's not gonna happen. Automation or TFW work force is the only way forward now.
So what are they supposed to do? Buy a ferry? Build them?
This problem started a long time ago and the previous government did nothing but play politics with the ferry system, ICBC, BC Rail etc.
The NDP have been in power since 2017. Pretty soon we're going to have to start assessing them on their progress, rather than simply rely on complaining about their predecessor's inaction (and/or corruption).
Sorry, but a lot of people around the world do actually want to move to BC. This isn't made up.
Again, BC Ferries would have to make a lot of changes to attract them but they could do just that, as I said.
It’s also due the whole seniority based hiring and how they treat casual employees/new hires. I often work with a deep sea ship based out of Halifax, and often spend nights chatting with the bridge crew. The new guy on this ship is from Vancouver. He’s a second officer on the ship, well on his way to an unlimited tonnage deep sea master’s ticket.
If he started with BC Ferries, he’d be on call, working extremely sperodic hours and unable to support his family. And it would be like that for a couple of years until he built up enough seniority to get on full time.
Ferry’s cost significantly more per vehicle. We talking what 200 cars a ferry trip so 1600 a day assuming 8 trips. I’d Rather put that money to a better sky train that currently services 350 000 riders a day.
Yes, they are a ferry system, they should be buying ferries to meet forecasted needs and upgrading terminals to support the number of ferries they need to run. I say this even if they have to run at a loss, the government should consider them to be part of the highway system. The longer they wait to catch up the more it will cost us in the end anyway.
1) Buy several, new huge ferries. Keep them on standby if need be.
2) Revamp labour structure such that people on standby are being paid.
3) Expand the Tsawwassen terminal with new berths so ferries can sail every 30 minutes.
Would cost hundreds of millions, but still cheaper than a bridge or tunnel
Not going to mention the previous government before that which saddled BC Ferries with a massive failure of experimental ship building which put them in a huge hole?
Could have kept the fast cats and run them at the same speed as the current ferries.
And at least they tried to build them!
What did the crooks do? Rob crown corps to give tax breaks to their friends and facilitate the Vancouver special version of money laundering?
>Could have kept the fast cats and run them at the same speed as the current ferries.
No they couldn't, they kept fucking constantly breaking down injesting shit into their impellers.
Not entirely fair to say they are not doing anything. Gotta give BC Ferries when credit is due. They came to a mutual agreement with the union and opened the contract negotiation 6 months early so they can compensate their staff better, which is a good step towards attracting staff. Still a lot of work to be done but there is progress.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9854157/union-bc-ferries-collective-agreement-talk-early/
I'll just say this as one of the people BC ferries is trying to attract.
To get me to move back to the lower mainland or the island with the cost of housing and interest rates where they are $250k minimum.
And none of this BS part time stand-by crap! I'm ok with working on a different ship each day but you've got to give me full time hours.
Source: I'm a fully STCW ticketed Chief Engineer with over 20 years experience. Also known as critical staffing shortage in the press releases.
They had very fail which can cause this sort of thing, and if you are traveling on the ferry you should get a reservation. Arrive early, and plan your trip.
People are definitely catching on. Departure Bay ferries had no wait earlier this morning, and now it's 1 wait.
Still better than waiting til dinner time.
Lol ofc not, didn't you know that I invented driving from Nanaimo to Victoria? /s
I never claimed that this is new or revolutionary. At the end of the day those are the three main routes from the Island to the mainland, so yes, obviously I wouldn't think this is a new idea for anyone who remotely knows VI. I'm simply responding to those who're claiming that the only option was the nine sailing wait.
Another pro-tip: take transit to or have someone drop you off at the terminal and you can skip the wait. Please keep it on the down low since it's a secret and I haven't trademarked it yet 🤫 /s
This shit is why car share needs to be a major thing from the terminals. I'd gladly walk across more if I could grab a car for a few hours. Victoria ain't bad for transit but Nanaimo is fucked
It is about right.
If you have 75% capacity on something that uses 90%, then that waitlist is going to continue increasing until they dip below that 75% usage.
It’s more like you have 70% capacity. The third ship on the route right now is the Queen of New Westminster, which is significantly smaller than either of the two Spirits, or the Coastal Celebration.
The new ferry meets some specific needs and I'm looking forward to it, but walk-ons aren't really the problem with BC Ferries, we need solutions for vehicle traffic.
Legit dumb question: what can be done to fix this? Build more ferries and offer higher pay to get more staff?
This seems to be getting worse and worse. I remember when it was only holiday weekends where it was a mess, but now it’s any weekend.
So I work in the marine industry and I'm one of the people ferries need to attract to make up for staffing shortages.
Why don't I work for them.
Poor pay (relative to what I can make elsewhere)
Poor schedule part time on call BS
Poor working environment (management and union are very antagonistic to each other)
Boring work, as a ship's engineer I hate standby time (that is when a ship is in restricted waters or making a dock or departing) because I literally sit in a chair and watch gauges just in case. Id rather be pulling on wrenches. And ferries are almost constantly on standby.
So for crew fix the above.
As to why the ship broke and continues to be broken. The root of it is lack of experience in the engineering department.
Used to be a Canadian engineer would "retire" to ferries and work out the last 5 to 10 years of our career there. Close to home easier work on the body etc. And they would always have one or two old salts that have seen it and fixed it before who caught things before they went off the rails.
Now most of the engineers only know stand-by watch keeping and have little to no practical experience with overhauls and refits. This also goes for the ship repair yards. Lots of green people who haven't seen things.
I won't go into what went wrong this time as all I have are rumors from within industry and they are notorious for being exaggerated and I don't have first hand knowledge.
That said I would put money on something simple that was overlooked in the last dry dock.
Remember that ferry that drove over the marinea in horseshoe bay? Root cause was a 12 cent cotter pin not installed correctly which when it fell out caused the clutching system control linkage to not work. So basically no brakes.
I could go on and on about my industry. Let's just say there are no quick fixes and the Ferries CEO is right this is the new normal for the next 5 years or so.
In this case, it was a knife seal on some of the hydraulics in the controllable pitch prop, so the ferry was haemorrhaging hydraulic fluid into the ocean. So was stated on the news.
Blade seal for the CPP.
And it was leaking 7 liters a hour.
In the Marie world that is not a hemorrhage. A concern and needs fixing asap but back in the 80s that would have been an acceptable leakage amount. High end to be sure.
No what I didn't want to get into is why that seal would be damaged at install.
Since the bridge or tunnel option often gets brought up in this discussion:
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/transportation-reports-and-reference/reports-studies/vancouver-island/fixed-link
There are other options than that alignment.
Island hopping around the northern gulf islands would be reasonably feasible, technically. The problem is that it would connect to Campbell River, rather than directly across the Straight.
On the upside, take care of several other BC Ferries routes, including the Sunshine Coast, Powell River and Campbell River/Powell River, lightening up the the demand on the ferry terminals.
Edit/ oh snap I didn't know he got tossed a few days ago... sorry I missed that one
oroignal post/
I''m talking about the new CEO Nicolas Jimenez. No positive effect and massive new issues. I would expect some motion forward after 5 months or at least a plan that is made very public to show hoe they plan on moving forward.
What would a CEO have been able to do to stop the vessel from mechanically failing a second time? The problems with the Coastal class of vessels are because of fundamental design decisions made 20 years ago.
The only thing the guy can do is try to fast track new ferries, but that's many years - not months.
Keep checking back on BC ferries website, sometimes a random reso will pop up when someone cancels etc.
Looking bleak but the Sat ferry from Tsawwassen to Swartz last weekend was only a 1 sailing wait when I got there at 5:40pm.
Unfortunately not — you have to go fairly far south to cross the water to get to Port Angeles to get the twice-daily ferry to Victoria.
Used to be there was a twice-daily ferry from Anacortes to Sidney but WSF hasn’t put it back into service through to Victoria.
Honestly this company is so utterly incompetent. They can’t meet the needs of tourists or residents anymore. And they are complete gougers enough as it is.
Tell me you've never worked in maintenance without telling me. Shit happens man. Could always have the boat sink or die in the middle of the straight if that's preferable?
The wise leader of BC Ferries is a CEO of the private corporation mandated to operate the BC Ferries for the province.
https://preview.redd.it/e194x6igt4eb1.png?width=435&format=png&auto=webp&s=744a710fea180ced11df0d787388175a2d651e8b
The sole shareholder of that “private” Company is the province. They should bring it back into the fold as a crown corporation, so it’s fully available to the Auditor General etc…
Trying to take a ferry in a vehicle without a reservation is madness. I guess they really want that reservation fee. Bloody expensive for such poor service.
This might be a dumb question, but bear with me... is this kind of thing for foot passengers too, or just just cars?
I'm new to the city and was going to take the ferry (walk on) in August to meet some family in Victoria. I have no idea if I should reserve/when I should reserve.
*edited for a silly spelling mistake
Occasionally, on busy long weekends, etc..., there might be a sailing wait for foot passengers but it doesn't happen often. Even in those cases, if you get to the ferry early, you'll be fine.
You can reserve walk on tickets and you should definitely do so, otherwise you’ll be held outside the doors in a line if the sailing is at passenger count. (The ship is running on less crew which means less passengers)
>This might be a dumb question, but bare with me... is this kind of thing for foot passengers too, or just just cars?
bare passengers, whether on foot or in cars, are generally discouraged; not a dumb question at all!
I tell you, taking the ferry as a cyclist is amazing. Ride down 15 minutes before the sailing, walk right on, get off, ride out immediately. Totally easy, no stress, no waiting.
Not bad as a pedestrian either. Take a train to a double decker bus with amazing views, then get off on the other side and take another double decker with even more amazing views. It's so easy and low stress. The worst part is waiting!
Maybe if more of you people chose to take an alternative form of transit you wouldn't be so stuck all the time. Instead, it seems like you are all fighting for space that simply doesn't exist.
Step one would be to get rid of BC Ferries private public partnership operating agreement and return it to completely public operated crown corporation. A lot of decisions made from BC Ferries, is almost like it is a "private company" trying to save a nickel until the end of the year so the CEO and upper management can get a big fat bonus, while leaving the company in shambles.
Cost savings is one thing, but cost cutting to the point where the skilled staff that "ARE VITAL" to operating a vessel and repairing them keep leaving is absolutely ridiculous.
Ya I saw the global news interview where the CEO is going "ya we are going to get the buffett back up and running". Too much focus on "optional revenue generating" solutions like food sales and not enough on maintenance and ship hand crews.
BC Ferries isn't suppose to be a revenue generating company. It is suppose to be treated like an extension of our highway and years of cost cutting has finally caught up.
Conversely, why not shift bookings to create commercial only sailings, or open up the terminals to overnight sailings for only shipping and utilize daylight hours for passenger bookings. Though that would be least feasible considering the biggest issue BC Ferries is facing is lack of workforce and would put greater stress on the ships and terminals which need time to have maintenance and repairs. A new ship design would be too expensive and take way too long to build to solve today's issues.
Have you considered calling your MLA with your idea?
Nah, I don't leave the island enough for it to be an issue for me. I probably use the ferry 4x round trips a year and usually do walk on as im usually only in Van for a show.
On the main busy days, the limitation is on the number of passengers, not the number of vehicles. The safety systems and crewing limits them to around 2000 passengers when fully staffed. That can easily be hit with walkon passengers and vehicles (especially if there are a couple of busloads)
Yet there are sailing waits for vehicles constantly. This could be fixed by having a vessel fitted for more vehicles then commercial/rec vehicles.
Anyways I don't expect anything to change, and I avoid traveling on Fridays, Saturdays & Sundays for this reason - when I do go (which is very rarely).
The flood of comments that come out of every story of BC Ferries failures recently that think it’s just a matter of making a reservation are so asinine. They do not make entire sailings open for reservation. Your reservation is not valid if a sailing is cancelled. This is not an excuse for this corporation running an essential service to just keep getting worse for BC residents. Sure if people don’t plan ahead for various reasons they can expect to wait but a 9 sailing wait on a Tuesday is unacceptable. Additionally having hundreds of sailings cancelled this year alone due to insufficient staffing is unacceptable. I take the ferry regularly to visit my elderly parents on the island and even with making reservations every time it is getting worse and worse every year. We wouldn’t tolerate this lack of reliability and lack of action to address it on any major stretch of highway when it has been happening for so long and getting worse.
Don't forget that a fair chunk of the pressure on the tsawassen ferry is due to the fact there's no more ferry from Anacortes to the island: https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/washington-ferry-service-sidney-resume-2030/281-0098056d-5672-474c-9c73-72615ee1bf6f
Pre COVID, going through the US was a viable option, slightly longer, but cheaper and you could shop at TJs on the way. Most the cars on the ferry seemed to have BC plates when I did it. Now all those people are added to the tsawassen crush.
To be a reluctant defender of BC ferries, WA State ferries is just as much of a shit show ATM, maybe more, with several prominent accidents recently and that's a pure government agency and used to be noticably better run. COVID and boomers racing their retirement age en mass, while young people have been reluctant to enter the industry for a while, seem to have a greater impact than management style.
I don't know, I live on the island I haven't had any issues.
It's the mainlanders who are trying to vacation on the island who are doing the most bitching. /r/VictoriaBC doesn't even have a thread on this.
What, if anything, is it that our government actually does around here? Like if they just closed down city hall and fired everyone would we even notice?
At this point, it's time to build a bridge/tunnel. The ferry service has been unreliable for a long time, but to wait \~12 hours to travel 40km is just ridiculous.
Tsawwassen to Mayne island is \~10km and easily spannable by a bridge or tunnel (the longest bridge in the world currently spans 164km, so this is nothing). From that point it's only a few km between each island to Victoria. A bridge or tunnel should include rail service, which would open the possibility of moving the port of Vancouver to the island, which would allow indefinite expansion as it would no longer be constrained by a relatively small city footprint. This move would free up current port space for housing or other services and remove the associated industrial traffic from downtown - including the heavy rail usage surrounding the port. This space is right in the poorest part of the city so all the social housing the government wants suddenly would have a massive plot of land perfectly situated and away from NIMBY's. The government could finally build a centralized solution to the homeless crisis, with the new St. Pauls right next door. High speed commercial rail could be included in the design and a rail trip could be made between downtown Vancouver and Victoria in 20 minutes. This opens the door to island commuting and would free people up to live on the island instead of pushing further away from downtown into the lower mainland. This same car trip would take under an hour at highway speeds. Tolling could be priced similar to current ferry prices. As bridges have way less overhead and maintenance, there would be no need to have yearly price increases like BC Ferries. With the addition of heavy commercial traffic and their new revenue source (including rail fees), the toll's could even be reduced.
There's so much economic advantage to this infrastructure it's almost criminal they haveb't pushed forward with it.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/transportation-reports-and-reference/reports-studies/vancouver-island/fixed-link
This was already explored, and it explains why it wasn't done.
>Wind speeds are up to 115 km with gusts up to 180 km. Closure of the structure to traffic would likely be required several times each year during strong winds.Crossing could be up to 26 km long, in depths of water up to 365 m. Deep, soft sediments are up to 450 m thick on the ocean bed
So by my calculations the bridge would need legs that are a minimum of 815 m long to get to bedrock to be seismically stable. Some of the longest bridges in the world use legs that only have to stretch 70 m so if you are willing to find a way that we can build, what would end up being, the tallest bridge in the world, go for it.
The other issue is that the straight is very heavy with boat traffic so we would have to go an additional hundred meters above the water, something the longest bridges the world do not do.
The only feasible fixed link solution is highway from Squamish to Powell River then island hop to Cortez Read Quadra and touch down in Campbell River.
Travel times from Vancouver to Victoria would actually be longer (depending on ferry delays). And the political ecological and monetary cost make that a non starter.
https://www.capitaldaily.ca/news/bridge-fixed-link-vancouver-island-salish-sea
You should take a look at this, no fixed link across the Georgia Strait is feasible with current technology.
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Might as well go to Nanaimo and drive down to Victoria, it's quite scenic if you've never done it.
I did that last time, it doesn't add that much time if you're headed to Sooke or something like that
Growing up on the north shore my family has always done this.
That especially seems logical from the north shore since you would otherwise have to drive an hour or so anyway. (either to Tsawwassen and then 30 mins into town or from Nanaimo to Victoria)
Well, that makes sense. It's not all that different than driving south to Tsawwassen to catch the ferry - you're going to do a drive south either way.
I'm guessing a lot of people will do that - meaning, there will be long waits to get over to Nanaimo too. It's like if there is an accident on the Lions Gate Bridge and the Second Narrows gets super backed up.
I do not miss commuting up and down the Malahat every week, one wreck and it's hours wait
Welcome to all roads outside of Vancouver and Victoria areas.
Oh I've been around BC a little... Nobody clogs up those island roads like the tourists
Super
Maybe swimming across would work better too
no car though. just take your bike on shit- if there's even room
I tried that, same thing nothing available until next day
Route 9 &5 would be quicker to Swartz Bay.
Will second this, much nicer drive if you have the time.
The cheery "Good morning" doesn't seem quite in line with the prospect of 12 hours stuck at a ferry terminal.
Ways to not get stuck: 1. Reservation 2. Walk-On 3. Vacation somewhere that doesn't involve a ferry
I saw walk ons even had waits on the weekend.
Walk on is full until 1PM as well.
referring to item 3, where do you suggest that isn't on fire, won't cost an arm and a leg or is overflowing with mouthy obnoxious drunks?
With so many requirements, i gather some cemetery might qualify.
The ferry is pretty expensive for a family to drive over and back again. You could take the money and spend it with the exchange rate by vacationing in Washington?
Even just first and third requirement would be great. Stays in Saanich area are already costing an arm and a leg.
Washington State/Oregon/Alberta/Yukon/Sunshine Coast
How do you get to Sunshine Coast without getting on a ferry?
Sunshine Coast requires a ferry which also gets really messed up due to tourists. Source I live here
Come to Alberta or Saskatchewan, where breathing the air is as bad as smoking, the mosquitos are the size of hummingbirds, and our shallow lakes are full of algae and swimmers itch.
Snarky remarks aside, Kelowna doesn't have much smoke yet.
There are fires on the island, Victoria is expensive as fuck, and the rural islanders especially are constantly drunk because what else is there to do? Why are you so keen to go to the island given your filters?
OTOH, I made bank on OT waiting for the ferry on Friday. Nice to be paid to travel, and notice was too short to make a reservation.
3 - I actually need to use it as a mode of transportation, I don't really have a choice in the matter.
Motorcycle is the 4th option, and is the option for summer madness.
In the time it takes to get onboard a ferry you could literally fly to China. Have a very merry Tuesday, everybody!
I could still across in my 27’ sailboat (which only moves at 9kph) from downtown Vancouver to downtown Victoria almost as fast.
How are the waters on a 27’ doing this crossing?
Depends on the weather, but not something to take lightly. I crossed back from Porlier Pass to Vancouver last Tuesday. The ocean was a mill pond, but it was stupidly hot, and the wind was blowing at the same speed and direction we were traveling, so it was miserable for 5 hours.
Great point. That really puts into perspective how absurd this is. Should be completely unacceptable...
The BC Ferries CAO (who makes like 400k) "it's just something we're gonna have to deal with)
I don't think we've seen this situation for a while; a major ship out of service due to a major defect during the busy travel season. Usually, BC Ferries is extremely good about sending ships into their annual refits prior to the summer, but in this case, *Coastal Celebration* was both late coming out of refit, and had a defect immediately after she was pushed back into service. Everything else just flows from there.
Did their P.R. person approve of him saying this to the media?
Yup. That's why I'd prefer to vacation outside of northamerica.
Might be faster just to swim over at this rate.
Fashioning a bundle of trunks with twine and making the best of it.
It is clear this summer that BC Ferries simply isn't meeting the needs of the province anymore and it is just going to get worse as they don't seem to be doing anything about it. The ferries are an integral part of travel between the island and the mainland, and a multi-sailing wait on any weekday is simply unacceptable.
Dont worry. We made it a semi private entity to make sure that it could run more efficiently /s
They still have a mandate as part of the agreement with the govt to not to cut any routes or service, this is consistent enough to be considered cutting service maybe, I wonder.
According to BC Ferries' 2022 financial report, Quite literally the only two routes that are revenue positive are Tsawwassen-Swartz Bay and Horsehoe Bay-Nanaimo. The losses on the minor and northern routes are astronomical, and dwarf the positive revenue of those two major routes.
> The losses on the minor and northern routes are astronomical, and dwarf the positive revenue of those two major routes. [And yet, they still decide its a great idea to push all executive pay up 10-18%](https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/b-c-ferries-executive-pay-soars-despite-damning-report) Doing this like this is how you create a financially "negative" company. The operations for a business like this are not to create profits... its to line the pockets of their elites and then tell the public theyre "losing money" so need more public funding.
No amount of work is going to make those routes profitable, unless service is cut. Yet the government forces them to run those routes and keep those services levels. Exectutive pay increases are literally a drop in the bucket compared to those. So here we are.
They weren't designed to be profitable. They are supposed to be part of our highway system. Roads are also not profitable.
Noone asks whether building roads is profitable. Why should this be any different? It's just showing how poorly these companies are being run. Executive pay increases by extreme amounts while they continue to cut services and fire workers. It makes no sense other than trying to suck out more funding. If it was wholly public owned, we wouldn't have these issues.
They’re publicly owned, which makes it even more ludicrous. They should be brought back into the fold and operated as part of the civil service.
agreed!
This is precisely why any center/center-right party wants to privatize something. To get their fingers in the public purse.
Weird that they’ve been trying to cut service on one of those routes for literally two decades…
Imagine if the highway system had to break even financially.
[They have in the past and it's arguably they should as well.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/coquihalla-highway-tolls-dropped-says-b-c-premier-1.727989)
Tolls and parking fees make a lot of sense. The university I went to charged $40/semester for parking, and it cost them over $500/space just in maintenance. It was the most ridiculous accounting I had heard of, particularly because I walked to school, so was literally subsidizing someone else's parking space. I always thought it was weird that this extremely expensive infrastructure like street parking and 8 lane freeways is often 100% free, while the skytrain costs $3/use.
It’s supposedly part of the highway system. They need to start acting like it
We are bringing a lot of people to BC as is pretty obvious. We do not have the infrastructure to support this many people. Next year a ship goes down and it will be a 12 sailing wait. It is what it is. And nothing is going to improve while we stay on this course. Not just immigration, but migration. Especially to the island. It's Canada's resort/retirement community. We're totally fucked. Starbucks needs to pay 35$ an hour for people to live on the island to serve the wealthy class their mocha frap. That's not gonna happen. Automation or TFW work force is the only way forward now.
So what are they supposed to do? Buy a ferry? Build them? This problem started a long time ago and the previous government did nothing but play politics with the ferry system, ICBC, BC Rail etc.
The NDP have been in power since 2017. Pretty soon we're going to have to start assessing them on their progress, rather than simply rely on complaining about their predecessor's inaction (and/or corruption).
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I absolutely agree, which is why I'm somewhat understanding on the lack of progress.
Seems to me they have had enough time to address this issue; it's not exactly new, just getting worse instead of better
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People from all over the world would love to live and work in BC. If they were paid appropriately, BC Ferries would have no problem finding staff.
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Sorry, but a lot of people around the world do actually want to move to BC. This isn't made up. Again, BC Ferries would have to make a lot of changes to attract them but they could do just that, as I said.
It’s also due the whole seniority based hiring and how they treat casual employees/new hires. I often work with a deep sea ship based out of Halifax, and often spend nights chatting with the bridge crew. The new guy on this ship is from Vancouver. He’s a second officer on the ship, well on his way to an unlimited tonnage deep sea master’s ticket. If he started with BC Ferries, he’d be on call, working extremely sperodic hours and unable to support his family. And it would be like that for a couple of years until he built up enough seniority to get on full time.
Plus, the mess the NDP made of the Fast Cats was probably the start of the major problems with BC Ferries.
That's a bit of a stretch. BC Liberals were in power for 16 years. All they did was semi privatize it and hand out massive salaries for the CEOs.
And the Fast Cat fiasco was before that. This is my point.
The fast ferries dumpster fire was all on the NDP. The BC Liberals were against building them.
That was also 20+ years ago, so irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
They are a ferry system. Yes they should buy and or build a ferry or two. They shouldn't need to "break even financially" either.
Yeah why not?
The same way our highway system doesn't 'break even' why should the ferries have to?
Ferry’s cost significantly more per vehicle. We talking what 200 cars a ferry trip so 1600 a day assuming 8 trips. I’d Rather put that money to a better sky train that currently services 350 000 riders a day.
A sky train can't transport people to ferry destinations.
Building new ferry's and upping wages is the solution. We all know that but the province chooses to spend our money elsewhere.
Yes, they are a ferry system, they should be buying ferries to meet forecasted needs and upgrading terminals to support the number of ferries they need to run. I say this even if they have to run at a loss, the government should consider them to be part of the highway system. The longer they wait to catch up the more it will cost us in the end anyway.
1) Buy several, new huge ferries. Keep them on standby if need be. 2) Revamp labour structure such that people on standby are being paid. 3) Expand the Tsawwassen terminal with new berths so ferries can sail every 30 minutes. Would cost hundreds of millions, but still cheaper than a bridge or tunnel
Not going to mention the previous government before that which saddled BC Ferries with a massive failure of experimental ship building which put them in a huge hole?
Could have kept the fast cats and run them at the same speed as the current ferries. And at least they tried to build them! What did the crooks do? Rob crown corps to give tax breaks to their friends and facilitate the Vancouver special version of money laundering?
>Could have kept the fast cats and run them at the same speed as the current ferries. No they couldn't, they kept fucking constantly breaking down injesting shit into their impellers.
Could have at least tried retrofitting a different propulsion system— the ship still had value.
Not entirely fair to say they are not doing anything. Gotta give BC Ferries when credit is due. They came to a mutual agreement with the union and opened the contract negotiation 6 months early so they can compensate their staff better, which is a good step towards attracting staff. Still a lot of work to be done but there is progress. https://globalnews.ca/news/9854157/union-bc-ferries-collective-agreement-talk-early/
I'll just say this as one of the people BC ferries is trying to attract. To get me to move back to the lower mainland or the island with the cost of housing and interest rates where they are $250k minimum. And none of this BS part time stand-by crap! I'm ok with working on a different ship each day but you've got to give me full time hours. Source: I'm a fully STCW ticketed Chief Engineer with over 20 years experience. Also known as critical staffing shortage in the press releases.
I've never seen it this bad. It's not even a long weekend.
They had very fail which can cause this sort of thing, and if you are traveling on the ferry you should get a reservation. Arrive early, and plan your trip.
Serious question - if I get in line now without a reservation, will I make it over for the August Long weekend?
https://preview.redd.it/7dxwyx4rj4eb1.jpeg?width=854&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=807401265b92727de81a61231576ae87c5e0e1d8
Keep cramming more and more people in, and don't invest in infrastructure. Working out well!
Infrastructure what is that ?
It's where you build structures inside structures. Basically double the efficiency of the building's footprint. Boom housing crisis solved.
Structure-ception
Ah ! I thought it was installing a million dollar chandelier under a flyover 😅
Duke Point ferries currently have a one sailing wait. Would very much be worth it to just drive from Nanaimo to Victoria.
Uh, as of right now 2 sailing wait (10:15 and 11:30 already full), with the 12:45 at 14% availability.
People are definitely catching on. Departure Bay ferries had no wait earlier this morning, and now it's 1 wait. Still better than waiting til dinner time.
as if people never thought of this during the countless delays and other mishaps that have occurred in the past
Lol ofc not, didn't you know that I invented driving from Nanaimo to Victoria? /s I never claimed that this is new or revolutionary. At the end of the day those are the three main routes from the Island to the mainland, so yes, obviously I wouldn't think this is a new idea for anyone who remotely knows VI. I'm simply responding to those who're claiming that the only option was the nine sailing wait. Another pro-tip: take transit to or have someone drop you off at the terminal and you can skip the wait. Please keep it on the down low since it's a secret and I haven't trademarked it yet 🤫 /s
First they came for the buffet, now this
This shit is why car share needs to be a major thing from the terminals. I'd gladly walk across more if I could grab a car for a few hours. Victoria ain't bad for transit but Nanaimo is fucked
Smart idea... so BC Ferries will have none of it.
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So they lose 1 boat and you have to wait all day on a Tuesday? Something's not right.
It is about right. If you have 75% capacity on something that uses 90%, then that waitlist is going to continue increasing until they dip below that 75% usage.
But there's no way the Tuesday load is 90% of the peak Friday/weekend/holiday load.
Shambhala just ended Monday and a ton of people will be ferrying back to the island today
Taylor Swift and Jays game in Seattle. A lot of people came over to get to those events.
It’s more like you have 70% capacity. The third ship on the route right now is the Queen of New Westminster, which is significantly smaller than either of the two Spirits, or the Coastal Celebration.
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> Walk ons are much less stressful. There are sailing-waits for foot passengers. So still stressful.
Not very often and not unless you arrive late.
That new ferry service from Nanaimo to DT Vancouver is looking better and better. BC ferries has been getting worse and worse. Time for changes .
it's also walk on only and fairly expensive
Yep but at least you will get there
Hopefully they can expand to Victoria
The new ferry meets some specific needs and I'm looking forward to it, but walk-ons aren't really the problem with BC Ferries, we need solutions for vehicle traffic.
Wow! I went on the weekend to Victoria and back and it seemed pretty okay, the 9 pm one was very empty car wise
Legit dumb question: what can be done to fix this? Build more ferries and offer higher pay to get more staff? This seems to be getting worse and worse. I remember when it was only holiday weekends where it was a mess, but now it’s any weekend.
So I work in the marine industry and I'm one of the people ferries need to attract to make up for staffing shortages. Why don't I work for them. Poor pay (relative to what I can make elsewhere) Poor schedule part time on call BS Poor working environment (management and union are very antagonistic to each other) Boring work, as a ship's engineer I hate standby time (that is when a ship is in restricted waters or making a dock or departing) because I literally sit in a chair and watch gauges just in case. Id rather be pulling on wrenches. And ferries are almost constantly on standby. So for crew fix the above. As to why the ship broke and continues to be broken. The root of it is lack of experience in the engineering department. Used to be a Canadian engineer would "retire" to ferries and work out the last 5 to 10 years of our career there. Close to home easier work on the body etc. And they would always have one or two old salts that have seen it and fixed it before who caught things before they went off the rails. Now most of the engineers only know stand-by watch keeping and have little to no practical experience with overhauls and refits. This also goes for the ship repair yards. Lots of green people who haven't seen things. I won't go into what went wrong this time as all I have are rumors from within industry and they are notorious for being exaggerated and I don't have first hand knowledge. That said I would put money on something simple that was overlooked in the last dry dock. Remember that ferry that drove over the marinea in horseshoe bay? Root cause was a 12 cent cotter pin not installed correctly which when it fell out caused the clutching system control linkage to not work. So basically no brakes. I could go on and on about my industry. Let's just say there are no quick fixes and the Ferries CEO is right this is the new normal for the next 5 years or so.
In this case, it was a knife seal on some of the hydraulics in the controllable pitch prop, so the ferry was haemorrhaging hydraulic fluid into the ocean. So was stated on the news.
Blade seal for the CPP. And it was leaking 7 liters a hour. In the Marie world that is not a hemorrhage. A concern and needs fixing asap but back in the 80s that would have been an acceptable leakage amount. High end to be sure. No what I didn't want to get into is why that seal would be damaged at install.
Ahh, I didn't know the amount, the report made it sound like it was almost free flowing.
Since the bridge or tunnel option often gets brought up in this discussion: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/transportation-reports-and-reference/reports-studies/vancouver-island/fixed-link
There are other options than that alignment. Island hopping around the northern gulf islands would be reasonably feasible, technically. The problem is that it would connect to Campbell River, rather than directly across the Straight. On the upside, take care of several other BC Ferries routes, including the Sunshine Coast, Powell River and Campbell River/Powell River, lightening up the the demand on the ferry terminals.
I think the CEO needs to resign. He couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag and it shows.
The CEO already resigned lol
Edit/ oh snap I didn't know he got tossed a few days ago... sorry I missed that one oroignal post/ I''m talking about the new CEO Nicolas Jimenez. No positive effect and massive new issues. I would expect some motion forward after 5 months or at least a plan that is made very public to show hoe they plan on moving forward.
What would a CEO have been able to do to stop the vessel from mechanically failing a second time? The problems with the Coastal class of vessels are because of fundamental design decisions made 20 years ago. The only thing the guy can do is try to fast track new ferries, but that's many years - not months.
The old one was fired. His replacement and the one who heads the Ferries’ board, Joy MacPhail, also need to be sacked.
Keep checking back on BC ferries website, sometimes a random reso will pop up when someone cancels etc. Looking bleak but the Sat ferry from Tsawwassen to Swartz last weekend was only a 1 sailing wait when I got there at 5:40pm.
Would it be faster to cross the border and take a ferry from the US? Is there even such a thing? Lol
Unfortunately not — you have to go fairly far south to cross the water to get to Port Angeles to get the twice-daily ferry to Victoria. Used to be there was a twice-daily ferry from Anacortes to Sidney but WSF hasn’t put it back into service through to Victoria.
We think our ferry system is bad, WSF is far worse. Their ships are barely floating.
Hullo's foot passenger ferry from downtown Vancouver to Nanaimo starts soon
Honestly this company is so utterly incompetent. They can’t meet the needs of tourists or residents anymore. And they are complete gougers enough as it is.
They had a ferry fail. That will happen.
If your vessel experiences mechanical difficulties and goes out of service two weeks after initial repairs, then it’s on them.
Tell me you've never worked in maintenance without telling me. Shit happens man. Could always have the boat sink or die in the middle of the straight if that's preferable?
Mechanical systems wear out and fail. Many systems require the boat to be taken out of service to properly worked on.
Yes, but it's an explanation of why there's a wait, not whos fault it is.
And we just sit back and let our wise leaders keep this as the status quo
The wise leader of BC Ferries is a CEO of the private corporation mandated to operate the BC Ferries for the province. https://preview.redd.it/e194x6igt4eb1.png?width=435&format=png&auto=webp&s=744a710fea180ced11df0d787388175a2d651e8b
The sole shareholder of that “private” Company is the province. They should bring it back into the fold as a crown corporation, so it’s fully available to the Auditor General etc…
It's misleading to call it a private company because the government owns said company and controls it via a board and the Coastal Ferries Act.
but it legally is a private company
Sure, and nobody said it isn't. But I don't think that implies what you think it does.
And they will still probably get a nice bonus for their participation this year.
Probably time to de-privatize it. It's clear that private corps are in it for profits and not providing a service.
Trying to take a ferry in a vehicle without a reservation is madness. I guess they really want that reservation fee. Bloody expensive for such poor service.
If you can even get a reservation
Not entirely - I just did this on Sunday, no reservation on the way to Langdale or back, and was totally fine. Made each sailing I wanted easily.
Had to do it for work last Friday. Fortunately, it was for work so I got paid to sit in the parking lot.
This might be a dumb question, but bear with me... is this kind of thing for foot passengers too, or just just cars? I'm new to the city and was going to take the ferry (walk on) in August to meet some family in Victoria. I have no idea if I should reserve/when I should reserve. *edited for a silly spelling mistake
Occasionally, on busy long weekends, etc..., there might be a sailing wait for foot passengers but it doesn't happen often. Even in those cases, if you get to the ferry early, you'll be fine.
You can reserve walk on tickets and you should definitely do so, otherwise you’ll be held outside the doors in a line if the sailing is at passenger count. (The ship is running on less crew which means less passengers)
It's for cars only. There is a capacity limit for foot traffic but it's generally very high
Thanks for the insight!
>This might be a dumb question, but bare with me... is this kind of thing for foot passengers too, or just just cars? bare passengers, whether on foot or in cars, are generally discouraged; not a dumb question at all!
Please, if you know you're going to need the ferry ahead of time, RESERVE.
Reservations are gone for weekend peak times weeks and months in advance now. Supply is the key issue,
I tell you, taking the ferry as a cyclist is amazing. Ride down 15 minutes before the sailing, walk right on, get off, ride out immediately. Totally easy, no stress, no waiting. Not bad as a pedestrian either. Take a train to a double decker bus with amazing views, then get off on the other side and take another double decker with even more amazing views. It's so easy and low stress. The worst part is waiting! Maybe if more of you people chose to take an alternative form of transit you wouldn't be so stuck all the time. Instead, it seems like you are all fighting for space that simply doesn't exist.
> Not bad as a pedestrian either. There are currently sailing waits for foot passengers.
For a moment I thought this was beaverton
Step one would be to get rid of BC Ferries private public partnership operating agreement and return it to completely public operated crown corporation. A lot of decisions made from BC Ferries, is almost like it is a "private company" trying to save a nickel until the end of the year so the CEO and upper management can get a big fat bonus, while leaving the company in shambles. Cost savings is one thing, but cost cutting to the point where the skilled staff that "ARE VITAL" to operating a vessel and repairing them keep leaving is absolutely ridiculous. Ya I saw the global news interview where the CEO is going "ya we are going to get the buffett back up and running". Too much focus on "optional revenue generating" solutions like food sales and not enough on maintenance and ship hand crews. BC Ferries isn't suppose to be a revenue generating company. It is suppose to be treated like an extension of our highway and years of cost cutting has finally caught up.
I hope this doesnt impact my reservation for the 5pm from Swartz to Tsawassen...
Simple solution. Every 2nd ferry should be one with 3 car decks, no commercial decks. Design that ferry.
Conversely, why not shift bookings to create commercial only sailings, or open up the terminals to overnight sailings for only shipping and utilize daylight hours for passenger bookings. Though that would be least feasible considering the biggest issue BC Ferries is facing is lack of workforce and would put greater stress on the ships and terminals which need time to have maintenance and repairs. A new ship design would be too expensive and take way too long to build to solve today's issues. Have you considered calling your MLA with your idea?
Nah, I don't leave the island enough for it to be an issue for me. I probably use the ferry 4x round trips a year and usually do walk on as im usually only in Van for a show.
On the main busy days, the limitation is on the number of passengers, not the number of vehicles. The safety systems and crewing limits them to around 2000 passengers when fully staffed. That can easily be hit with walkon passengers and vehicles (especially if there are a couple of busloads)
Yet there are sailing waits for vehicles constantly. This could be fixed by having a vessel fitted for more vehicles then commercial/rec vehicles. Anyways I don't expect anything to change, and I avoid traveling on Fridays, Saturdays & Sundays for this reason - when I do go (which is very rarely).
The flood of comments that come out of every story of BC Ferries failures recently that think it’s just a matter of making a reservation are so asinine. They do not make entire sailings open for reservation. Your reservation is not valid if a sailing is cancelled. This is not an excuse for this corporation running an essential service to just keep getting worse for BC residents. Sure if people don’t plan ahead for various reasons they can expect to wait but a 9 sailing wait on a Tuesday is unacceptable. Additionally having hundreds of sailings cancelled this year alone due to insufficient staffing is unacceptable. I take the ferry regularly to visit my elderly parents on the island and even with making reservations every time it is getting worse and worse every year. We wouldn’t tolerate this lack of reliability and lack of action to address it on any major stretch of highway when it has been happening for so long and getting worse.
Don't forget that a fair chunk of the pressure on the tsawassen ferry is due to the fact there's no more ferry from Anacortes to the island: https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/washington-ferry-service-sidney-resume-2030/281-0098056d-5672-474c-9c73-72615ee1bf6f Pre COVID, going through the US was a viable option, slightly longer, but cheaper and you could shop at TJs on the way. Most the cars on the ferry seemed to have BC plates when I did it. Now all those people are added to the tsawassen crush. To be a reluctant defender of BC ferries, WA State ferries is just as much of a shit show ATM, maybe more, with several prominent accidents recently and that's a pure government agency and used to be noticably better run. COVID and boomers racing their retirement age en mass, while young people have been reluctant to enter the industry for a while, seem to have a greater impact than management style.
Swimming allowed?
Absolutely. We also encourage dingys
Quick, book that Helijet!
This is one reason why it might not be the best idea to live on an island.
I don't know, I live on the island I haven't had any issues. It's the mainlanders who are trying to vacation on the island who are doing the most bitching. /r/VictoriaBC doesn't even have a thread on this.
Tbf if you live on the island being away from everything seems to have been the goal in the first place…
Duuuuuuuude.
There's no Celebration here.
I hope a cafeteria worker doesn't call in sick...
They theoretically have an entire ship's worth of crew to cover any call ins now. So bright side?
BC Ferries is a meme.
Seabus memes is 100% going to do a bit on this for this Friday's post of his.
What, if anything, is it that our government actually does around here? Like if they just closed down city hall and fired everyone would we even notice?
As I get off my flight to join a ship for 11 weeks, this reminds me that it could be worse - I could still be working for BC Ferries.
lmao
Another day, another dollar. By dollar, I mean BC Ferries delay.
At this point, it's time to build a bridge/tunnel. The ferry service has been unreliable for a long time, but to wait \~12 hours to travel 40km is just ridiculous. Tsawwassen to Mayne island is \~10km and easily spannable by a bridge or tunnel (the longest bridge in the world currently spans 164km, so this is nothing). From that point it's only a few km between each island to Victoria. A bridge or tunnel should include rail service, which would open the possibility of moving the port of Vancouver to the island, which would allow indefinite expansion as it would no longer be constrained by a relatively small city footprint. This move would free up current port space for housing or other services and remove the associated industrial traffic from downtown - including the heavy rail usage surrounding the port. This space is right in the poorest part of the city so all the social housing the government wants suddenly would have a massive plot of land perfectly situated and away from NIMBY's. The government could finally build a centralized solution to the homeless crisis, with the new St. Pauls right next door. High speed commercial rail could be included in the design and a rail trip could be made between downtown Vancouver and Victoria in 20 minutes. This opens the door to island commuting and would free people up to live on the island instead of pushing further away from downtown into the lower mainland. This same car trip would take under an hour at highway speeds. Tolling could be priced similar to current ferry prices. As bridges have way less overhead and maintenance, there would be no need to have yearly price increases like BC Ferries. With the addition of heavy commercial traffic and their new revenue source (including rail fees), the toll's could even be reduced. There's so much economic advantage to this infrastructure it's almost criminal they haveb't pushed forward with it.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/transportation-reports-and-reference/reports-studies/vancouver-island/fixed-link This was already explored, and it explains why it wasn't done. >Wind speeds are up to 115 km with gusts up to 180 km. Closure of the structure to traffic would likely be required several times each year during strong winds.Crossing could be up to 26 km long, in depths of water up to 365 m. Deep, soft sediments are up to 450 m thick on the ocean bed So by my calculations the bridge would need legs that are a minimum of 815 m long to get to bedrock to be seismically stable. Some of the longest bridges in the world use legs that only have to stretch 70 m so if you are willing to find a way that we can build, what would end up being, the tallest bridge in the world, go for it. The other issue is that the straight is very heavy with boat traffic so we would have to go an additional hundred meters above the water, something the longest bridges the world do not do.
The only feasible fixed link solution is highway from Squamish to Powell River then island hop to Cortez Read Quadra and touch down in Campbell River. Travel times from Vancouver to Victoria would actually be longer (depending on ferry delays). And the political ecological and monetary cost make that a non starter.
https://www.capitaldaily.ca/news/bridge-fixed-link-vancouver-island-salish-sea You should take a look at this, no fixed link across the Georgia Strait is feasible with current technology.