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If you don't have to pay rent because you own your house/condo, it does. But if you don't, which a lot won't, then... No.
Kinda depends on the US elections this fall whether Canada still exists in 20 years anyways.
people are here mostly because of friends and family. If you have to move out north to Prince George and fly home to see your loved ones, then why not just move to Mexico? If you're already going to have to fly around then you might as well go cheap as possible. And there's more to do and see in Mexico.
My retirement is living in a van. Recently left my job with no plan except to do Uber eats and odd gigs here and there. Got 10k saved up.
I have bad social skills and no economically transferrable skills whereby I’d be hired except to work at a factory job. I neither have the intention to “suck it up and learn a trade bro” or similar rhetoric. I know I should be “digging deep and pushing harder than ever” in this economy but ye know.. F it.
So far this seems to be the most attainable and overall best retirement plan for me. I don’t plan on having kids, and I’m too socially inept to find a partner to have kids with lol. Not really bothered by being single either, since I stopped putting effort into dating.
Welcome to the dilemma… some folks who got in early by whatever means are mostly using the hopeful appreciation & equity in buying… others who have a locked in low rent will fight to keep that while hopefully investing what they can… and those with high rent and low salary are generally screwed…
Many are hoping for inheritance and secretly praying their parents don’t live forever in long term care…
Short answer is yes. My saving rate to my investment accounts is on track for retirement. I imagine this will get depleted somewhat when I have kids and upsize. Not too concerned because my partner and I both have DBPP that cover retirement.
There is also CPP and OAS if there is shortfall.
You're wrong though. The best things about Vancouver are "free". Clean air, secure fresh water, moderated climate, stable geopolitics, and access to world class outdoor recreation.
100%. Or get overwhelmed by it. Finances gives my partner extreme anxiety. Luckily I really enjoy PFC.
Even people that manage to get into mutual funds with their bank (which puts them ahead of like maybe 50% of people), somehow can't put in that little extra bit more of effort to move to ETFs and save $200,000+ in fees.
Did you have a savings account before 2021? Interest in a savings account from 2008-2021 was effectively zero. 0.xx% in general, with some exceptions. You might find a 1% promotional rate in 2015.
That is, effectively, negative real interest.
Yes, that's how I know you're wrong lol
Now, how long will it take you to acknowledge that 0.xx+ is a not zero or lower?
You don't own the goalposts my dude, stop trying to move them lol
>The typical Canadian spends 30,000$ per year in retirement, which works out to 600,000$ for 20 years. Not bad. But the cost of rent for 20 years almost doubles that number adding 500,000$ for 20 years.
Are you assuming a 65 year old retiree living to 85 in your example?
Anyway, ideally you should have GIS, OAS, and CPP to count on, which if you have full eligibility won't be far off that number.
Additionally, you should be able to at least beat inflation with the money you have.
The difference is that in the past retirees usually had a paid off house which somewhat "fixed" their costs. Those of our generation that have this will probably be quite fine with minimal savings plus cpp, those without will likely need a sizable nest egg.
My retirement plan is to either live long enough to become a cyborg and work forever, or just not worry about it because climate change is going to come for us all before I'm old enough to retire anyways.
I am by no means making a lot of money, but I am fortunate to have found a decent job (BC Public Service) with a great pension. Have already put in 10 years, 20 more years to go. With CPP and OAS, I should be alright.
Hmm someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 30k a year for 20 years actually would net you about 1.2 million--assuming you invest it and are able to average a 7% annual return (according to [calculator.net/investment-calculator](http://calculator.net/investment-calculator) at least). r/Bogleheads has a wealth of knowledge on how to do this really simply, but the super abbreviated and dumbed down version is you consistently put your savings into a total market index fund and leave it there until you retire.
If you're just putting your retirement savings into a savings account then yeah, definitely won't be enough at all. But otherwise 30k a year would actually leave you with a decent nest egg if you manage it properly. Whether or not the average Canadian *can* put aside that much every year is another question entirely, though. And with how the cost of everything keeps rising it's looking a bit bleak.
I have a defined benefits pension indexed at 2% and put away about $1k a month into investments. If I have my home paid off by then I should be fine 🤞🏻
I'm fortunate to have a DB pension (healthcare) that will pay me 70% of my max income, as well as CPP etc. I put away a bit a month into TFSA/RRSP but with everything so expensive contributions have lessened recently lol. So pension will hopefully be enough in the future!
Lol, in this market you need to have $200,000 saved to get a $300,000 loan, and to get a $500,000 1 bedroom condo, you'd have to go out east almost to the Fraser Valley, and you would only be getting about 600sq ft.
My post is specifically asking how people are faring or think they will manage, and you have managed to provide no input in either of your comments. Congratulations.
Glad to be of no help to you.
The answer you don’t want is if you want to retire securely in Vancouver then you will need to sacrifice to own property. So not be doing all the lifestyle things you list as much as you want. Unless you can get a high paying job.
Or move somewhere more affordable.
Thank you. This is genuinely the realistic type of answer I was looking for.
I just don't understand what the majority of people are going to do because nobody in Vancouver seems to be adhering to the minimal lifestyle things to be able to have money for retirement.
Lots of people have no plan. Reality will hit them hard.
I’ve been obsessive about planning for retirement my whole life. Right around the corner now. My planning will pay off.
I had to tell my wife more than once. Yes I could get hit by a bus tomorrow but I probably won’t.
My kids will get the benefit of my over-planning. And that’s ok by me. They have a tougher time ahead of them I did.
Lucky for me I inherited a trust fund, which I can't access until age 65. Other than that, I have no idea. I'll probably end up living in a van or on the streets.
The answer is simple.
You invest, whether that is GICs or index funds.
Saving a lump sum in your mattress like you're suggesting had NEVER been a thing.
Your numbers look bad because you left out investing and growth.
Have to say, the vast majority of posts I see here about what makes living in Vancouver great focus on outdoor activities like hiking, biking, beaches, parks, etc... which generally cost nothing.
Your health is your wealth. No point having a million bucks if you aren’t mobile or have something chronic.
Live within your means. Spend less than you earn and save.
A target of $500k in your RRSP and $500k in a TFSA and you should be ok even if you don’t have a house. This is doable after 30 years.
In my 40s
I bank a about 1/3, spend 1/3 and give daddy gobermint the other 3rd in tax. Retirement will contain:
* No Rent
* No mortgage
* Utilities near free (water, sewer and heat all included)
* Hydro to run pump, lights
* use wood heat and have generator backup
* draw CPP, (then OAS), RRSPs and DCPP, investments and work part time for cash.
I figure my yearly expenses will EASILY fit in the Gov pension money. Rest is cake.
Savings were certainly harder when I was younger paying down debt. I also haven taken a "hard to take pill" my entire working career.
* Identify when a town/ job is not working out
* Go elsewhere where better paid work is - not stay and struggle
* Change roles as required. Fields if needed.
LATE EDIT: Just wanted to say retirement won't be in BC and I think from my list of items that would be apparent. I spoke to a retirement specialist once and they did napkin math to say I need 3 or 4 million in the bank to retire. I called him out on his nice sales pitch and reminded him. Retirement is NOT about having X amount of money saved up. Retirement is better stated as "How much do you NEED TO SPEND to stay solvent". Expenses going down significantly with retirement seems to be something advisors don't see because I am "young". I told the planner exactly how I would reach the above targets. We have never conversed since as no need.
...? Nothing great about Vancouver requires constant dining out, shopping or nightlife (there is none). In fact none of those are actually great (general food is great, dining out at Blue Water isn't).
That aside, buy a place you can afford, save 20% of your paycheque into some sort of index ETF, and in 40 years you'll be fine. Not Jericho Tennis Club fine, but probably community club fine.
If you make $65K, take home is probably $50K ish. Max out TFSA and 10% gross into RRSP.
Thats $37K left. $7K should cover your basics other than shelter. If you're spending more, you're the problem.
$30K left. Don't get all entitled and think you can live in the fast lane in a Yaletown studio by yourself. Bunk some beds with your buddies. \~$1200/month. Somewhere close to work. Don't get all entitled and think you can drive to work. Get your ass on a bike.
$15K left. $5K for splurges. You can splurge. Or not.
$10K left. Save that up for a downpayment. Or retirement.
And if you're not making $65K? What the hell are you doing on reddit? Get your ass out there and grind.
Most people in Vancouver have invested enough to retire comfortably. A lot of jobs here offer generous pension and RRSP. People should have no problem retiring and enjoying a high quality lifestyle. Commenters are just being pessimistic as usual on this sub. In vancouver, it’s much easier to retire comfortably given a lot of activities like hiking is free.
Where are you getting your information from? Are you referring to people over 40?
My post is specifically talking about people younger than 40. Most people this age look at their finances and realize they will never be able to afford buying a home in Vancouver without some kind of large inheritance, let alone have enough invested to retire.
I feel like you may be very out of touch with current mortgage situations.
Here is a very realistic current situation: to afford a $500,000 1 bedroom apartment, while making $80,000/year, you would need to save up $200,000 before the bank would give you a loan for the other $300,000.
That's ONLY IF you have less than 500$ total monthly expenses (including all food, transportation, utilities) and have ZERO debt in any form.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/tankmouse! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Most common questions and topics are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan, and our weekly [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * Posts flaired "Community Only" allow for limited participation; your comment may be removed if you're not a subreddit regular. * Make sure to join our new sister community, /r/AskVan! * Help grow the community! [Apply to join the mod team today](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/19eworq/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unfortunately I don't think 30k a year is going to go very far in 20-25 years.
Doesn't go anywhere now.
If you don't have to pay rent because you own your house/condo, it does. But if you don't, which a lot won't, then... No. Kinda depends on the US elections this fall whether Canada still exists in 20 years anyways.
Most millennials and generations after won't be able to retire in Canada.
Big country with lots of very cheap spots if you can stand the weather.
people are here mostly because of friends and family. If you have to move out north to Prince George and fly home to see your loved ones, then why not just move to Mexico? If you're already going to have to fly around then you might as well go cheap as possible. And there's more to do and see in Mexico.
Yup. I live in SK. The only bad thing is being far from the ocean and the insane cold. Luckily I enjoy a variety of indoor hobbies, lol
My retirement is living in a van. Recently left my job with no plan except to do Uber eats and odd gigs here and there. Got 10k saved up. I have bad social skills and no economically transferrable skills whereby I’d be hired except to work at a factory job. I neither have the intention to “suck it up and learn a trade bro” or similar rhetoric. I know I should be “digging deep and pushing harder than ever” in this economy but ye know.. F it. So far this seems to be the most attainable and overall best retirement plan for me. I don’t plan on having kids, and I’m too socially inept to find a partner to have kids with lol. Not really bothered by being single either, since I stopped putting effort into dating.
Welcome to the dilemma… some folks who got in early by whatever means are mostly using the hopeful appreciation & equity in buying… others who have a locked in low rent will fight to keep that while hopefully investing what they can… and those with high rent and low salary are generally screwed… Many are hoping for inheritance and secretly praying their parents don’t live forever in long term care…
Somebody I know plan to retire in 3 years and moving to Southeast Asia.
I'm that person as well
Short answer is yes. My saving rate to my investment accounts is on track for retirement. I imagine this will get depleted somewhat when I have kids and upsize. Not too concerned because my partner and I both have DBPP that cover retirement. There is also CPP and OAS if there is shortfall. You're wrong though. The best things about Vancouver are "free". Clean air, secure fresh water, moderated climate, stable geopolitics, and access to world class outdoor recreation.
Yep, this is just an obvious bot doomer post. They're just basically pretending that intereat on savings/investments don't exist
A lot of people don't understand how savings and investments work.
100%. Or get overwhelmed by it. Finances gives my partner extreme anxiety. Luckily I really enjoy PFC. Even people that manage to get into mutual funds with their bank (which puts them ahead of like maybe 50% of people), somehow can't put in that little extra bit more of effort to move to ETFs and save $200,000+ in fees.
100% of people understand that when you put money into your savings account, the bank pays you interest.
A fact that has been essentially untrue for the past 15 years, but sure.
You’re literally trying to say that savings accounts have a zero or negative interest rate. My lad, you have failed the school system
Did you have a savings account before 2021? Interest in a savings account from 2008-2021 was effectively zero. 0.xx% in general, with some exceptions. You might find a 1% promotional rate in 2015. That is, effectively, negative real interest.
Yes, that's how I know you're wrong lol Now, how long will it take you to acknowledge that 0.xx+ is a not zero or lower? You don't own the goalposts my dude, stop trying to move them lol
>The typical Canadian spends 30,000$ per year in retirement, which works out to 600,000$ for 20 years. Not bad. But the cost of rent for 20 years almost doubles that number adding 500,000$ for 20 years. Are you assuming a 65 year old retiree living to 85 in your example? Anyway, ideally you should have GIS, OAS, and CPP to count on, which if you have full eligibility won't be far off that number. Additionally, you should be able to at least beat inflation with the money you have. The difference is that in the past retirees usually had a paid off house which somewhat "fixed" their costs. Those of our generation that have this will probably be quite fine with minimal savings plus cpp, those without will likely need a sizable nest egg.
My retirement concern is the cost of helium tanks and the increasing scarcity of free plastic bags.
Nitrogen is good alternative
My retirement plan is to either live long enough to become a cyborg and work forever, or just not worry about it because climate change is going to come for us all before I'm old enough to retire anyways.
I am by no means making a lot of money, but I am fortunate to have found a decent job (BC Public Service) with a great pension. Have already put in 10 years, 20 more years to go. With CPP and OAS, I should be alright.
Yep I'm hoping pension, cpp and oas will keep me fed and pay for meds.
If I keep my job until retirement, sure
I'm in my 40s and don't expect to live long enough to retire. If health issues don't get me the collapse of society/environment will.
Hmm someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 30k a year for 20 years actually would net you about 1.2 million--assuming you invest it and are able to average a 7% annual return (according to [calculator.net/investment-calculator](http://calculator.net/investment-calculator) at least). r/Bogleheads has a wealth of knowledge on how to do this really simply, but the super abbreviated and dumbed down version is you consistently put your savings into a total market index fund and leave it there until you retire. If you're just putting your retirement savings into a savings account then yeah, definitely won't be enough at all. But otherwise 30k a year would actually leave you with a decent nest egg if you manage it properly. Whether or not the average Canadian *can* put aside that much every year is another question entirely, though. And with how the cost of everything keeps rising it's looking a bit bleak.
OP said $30K was average annual SPEND, not investment.
Oops, my bad! Probably shouldn’t have been replying to Reddit threads that late 😅
haha yeah brain gets blurry. Been there.
I have a defined benefits pension indexed at 2% and put away about $1k a month into investments. If I have my home paid off by then I should be fine 🤞🏻
Can the average Canadian save $30k a year? Probably not.
OP was referring to annual $30K SPEND, not saving.
I'm fortunate to have a DB pension (healthcare) that will pay me 70% of my max income, as well as CPP etc. I put away a bit a month into TFSA/RRSP but with everything so expensive contributions have lessened recently lol. So pension will hopefully be enough in the future!
Best plan is own your own place to live free and clear by the time you retire.
Lol, in this market you need to have $200,000 saved to get a $300,000 loan, and to get a $500,000 1 bedroom condo, you'd have to go out east almost to the Fraser Valley, and you would only be getting about 600sq ft.
Got to start somewhere on the property ladder. Market isn’t magically get cheaper.
My post is specifically asking how people are faring or think they will manage, and you have managed to provide no input in either of your comments. Congratulations.
Glad to be of no help to you. The answer you don’t want is if you want to retire securely in Vancouver then you will need to sacrifice to own property. So not be doing all the lifestyle things you list as much as you want. Unless you can get a high paying job. Or move somewhere more affordable.
Thank you. This is genuinely the realistic type of answer I was looking for. I just don't understand what the majority of people are going to do because nobody in Vancouver seems to be adhering to the minimal lifestyle things to be able to have money for retirement.
Lots of people have no plan. Reality will hit them hard. I’ve been obsessive about planning for retirement my whole life. Right around the corner now. My planning will pay off. I had to tell my wife more than once. Yes I could get hit by a bus tomorrow but I probably won’t. My kids will get the benefit of my over-planning. And that’s ok by me. They have a tougher time ahead of them I did.
Lucky for me I inherited a trust fund, which I can't access until age 65. Other than that, I have no idea. I'll probably end up living in a van or on the streets.
The answer is simple. You invest, whether that is GICs or index funds. Saving a lump sum in your mattress like you're suggesting had NEVER been a thing. Your numbers look bad because you left out investing and growth.
Have to say, the vast majority of posts I see here about what makes living in Vancouver great focus on outdoor activities like hiking, biking, beaches, parks, etc... which generally cost nothing.
Your health is your wealth. No point having a million bucks if you aren’t mobile or have something chronic. Live within your means. Spend less than you earn and save. A target of $500k in your RRSP and $500k in a TFSA and you should be ok even if you don’t have a house. This is doable after 30 years.
In my 40s I bank a about 1/3, spend 1/3 and give daddy gobermint the other 3rd in tax. Retirement will contain: * No Rent * No mortgage * Utilities near free (water, sewer and heat all included) * Hydro to run pump, lights * use wood heat and have generator backup * draw CPP, (then OAS), RRSPs and DCPP, investments and work part time for cash. I figure my yearly expenses will EASILY fit in the Gov pension money. Rest is cake. Savings were certainly harder when I was younger paying down debt. I also haven taken a "hard to take pill" my entire working career. * Identify when a town/ job is not working out * Go elsewhere where better paid work is - not stay and struggle * Change roles as required. Fields if needed. LATE EDIT: Just wanted to say retirement won't be in BC and I think from my list of items that would be apparent. I spoke to a retirement specialist once and they did napkin math to say I need 3 or 4 million in the bank to retire. I called him out on his nice sales pitch and reminded him. Retirement is NOT about having X amount of money saved up. Retirement is better stated as "How much do you NEED TO SPEND to stay solvent". Expenses going down significantly with retirement seems to be something advisors don't see because I am "young". I told the planner exactly how I would reach the above targets. We have never conversed since as no need.
Who retire these days? I plan to work till I die.
Read Your Money or Your Life by Vicki Robin and Joe Dominguez.
...? Nothing great about Vancouver requires constant dining out, shopping or nightlife (there is none). In fact none of those are actually great (general food is great, dining out at Blue Water isn't). That aside, buy a place you can afford, save 20% of your paycheque into some sort of index ETF, and in 40 years you'll be fine. Not Jericho Tennis Club fine, but probably community club fine. If you make $65K, take home is probably $50K ish. Max out TFSA and 10% gross into RRSP. Thats $37K left. $7K should cover your basics other than shelter. If you're spending more, you're the problem. $30K left. Don't get all entitled and think you can live in the fast lane in a Yaletown studio by yourself. Bunk some beds with your buddies. \~$1200/month. Somewhere close to work. Don't get all entitled and think you can drive to work. Get your ass on a bike. $15K left. $5K for splurges. You can splurge. Or not. $10K left. Save that up for a downpayment. Or retirement. And if you're not making $65K? What the hell are you doing on reddit? Get your ass out there and grind.
Defined pension plan.
Pawn Shop Dude: Best I can do one out of three.
Most people in Vancouver have invested enough to retire comfortably. A lot of jobs here offer generous pension and RRSP. People should have no problem retiring and enjoying a high quality lifestyle. Commenters are just being pessimistic as usual on this sub. In vancouver, it’s much easier to retire comfortably given a lot of activities like hiking is free.
Where are you getting your information from? Are you referring to people over 40? My post is specifically talking about people younger than 40. Most people this age look at their finances and realize they will never be able to afford buying a home in Vancouver without some kind of large inheritance, let alone have enough invested to retire. I feel like you may be very out of touch with current mortgage situations. Here is a very realistic current situation: to afford a $500,000 1 bedroom apartment, while making $80,000/year, you would need to save up $200,000 before the bank would give you a loan for the other $300,000. That's ONLY IF you have less than 500$ total monthly expenses (including all food, transportation, utilities) and have ZERO debt in any form.