Honestly, I think it's because meat is so ingrained into our society's culture.
I've been vegan for almost 5 years now, and the longer I've been vegan and thinking more deeply about food and how our society views it, it's just that socially it's most accepted to eat an omnivore diet.
Tons of people I know who I'd consider compassionate and caring, and some whom have even admitted that veganism makes sense, eat meat. And I get it. Meat is everywhere. Honestly, I've had to adapt to meat eating around me a lot since I moved half way across the country and made new friends. I have a handful of vegan friends, but it's nothing like the number of omni friends I have.
It's just inconvenient to be vegan when food is such a social thing. It connects people.
I got exhausted trying to be a more outspoken advocate for veganism. Now, I advocate by just sticking to my morals and always bringing vegan options wherever I go. But meat isn't going anywhere, and it stinks. It's too ingrained.
This is the best way I’ve come to terms with it too.
People go to work. They get married. They have kids. They drive a car. They eat meat. These are all just things people “do” (or are expected to do). It’s not good or bad in the eyes of societal norms - just inherent truths that people don’t think to question.
Yes this exactly. Don't get me wrong people are extremely dumb and very very quick to try and justify questionable behaviors, but a good chunk of people genuinely truly do not even think twice about it. Like they don't even think about it. At all. It's not even something that comes up in their mind as something they should question because they don't even know that they should question it.
I would say this is more true for eggs and dairy? Yes meat is everywhere but so are vegetarians, every restaurant / hotel / event venue / etc. knows that they need to have at least one token vegetarian option, but they usually make it full of cheese or something because they don’t think past “you don’t kill cows to milk them”.
I got downvoted today for saying having a beef farmer in the running to be the next leader of our green party in Ireland is a joke.
Why does it seem like more and more today people are either willfully blind, happy as shit in cognitive dissonance or just plainly fucking stupid?
I'm with you, it's extremely weird and very very frustrating
Yeah, you know how it goes outside of vegan subs, they're very sensitive when their precious diet of meat, milk and hypocrisy is criticised.
That's weird, because everyone knows Martin Nolan loves a predator
When you figure it out, please let me know. I too am confused.
There was an animal sanctuary near me that had BBQs as fundraisers. Yes, they were cooking animals to raise money to help animals. They didn’t see anything wrong with this. Neither did their supporters.
I’ll never understand non-vegans.
Jesus lol
I visited a bird 'sanctuary' in surrey a couple of years ago. Horrific conditions. A bold eagle in the tiniest cage couldn't even spread its wings. And the cafe was serving chicken sandwiches
Like a supposed aquatic animal sanctuary here that had a seafood restaurant inside the place, then parked out front was a food truck that sold fish tacos, honestly couldn't believe it.
That is absolutely shocking if you are sure it's true. I was an activist for many years and have been to lots of sanctuaries. Every one of them was functionally vegan. True, some volunteers were not vegan and even lots of people who donate, which is by itself weird enough. People are shiite. Stupid shiite.
It's definitely true, periodically there'll be a tiny scandal on the sanctuary circuit over yet another rescue having a bbq or allowing meat to be sold at their fundraisers. They usually just block or remove comments on their socials and it's soon forgotten about as there's always another place to complain about soon enough, and people move on.
yeah, there's no problem here at all, I donate to a fox sanctuary, that saves foxes from the fur industry, but I do that while wearing all my fox fur clothing, it's fine though because they are free range foxes and the farmer takes care of them, I've been to the farm and it all looks great. It is all VERY humane.
Seeing any issues yet......?
Eating beef infront of a dog sanctuary? Most people don't care the same about all animals. For me eating a dog would be morally the same as eating a cow. But most people make a distinction between pets and livestock. There are not many cow sanctuaries around. At least where i live there are none.
Would you not consider it at least counterproductive for someone to donate to a dog sanctuary and then going to the track to bet on greyhound racing?
Not to patronise, but for those that don't know, In areas with a lot of greyhound racing, there are a lot abandoned when they are not winning races and end up in dog sanctuaries for example.
Why? Still better to donate than to just bet. As they say: money doesn't stink. The sanctuary rather have money from a meat eater than close down for good.
>Would you not consider it at least counterproductive for someone to donate to a dog sanctuary and then going to the track to bet on greyhound racing?
No. That sounds doubly productive, since the person gets both the pleasure of gambling as well as the pleasure of being generous and helping find homes for dogs one might also have bet on. That's efficiency of production.
ah of course, we all know that it's very very easy for all dogs to get homes, none ever have to be destroyed. So support the industry that contributes to the pressure put on the sanctuary in the first place, very efficient.
Nice trolling buddy, gave me a good laugh.
No its not. People are not binary 1 or 0. You can care about some animals while still eating others. I like some people while hating others. Thats normal. I bet even most vegans care little about mosquitoes or cockroaches. Would you let them infest your flat and move out? Probably not. Doesn't make the rest of your contribution worth any less in my eyes. You can alwaye find what you call hypocracy if you dig deep enough. Surely you use a phone, the internet, power, streets. List goes on and for all of it animals die because we destroy their habitats.
I think most times, people CHOOSE to ignore what they cant see. In this case, the activists choose to ignore the meat industry’s practice because they don’t see it day in and day out. They are more comfortable fighting for rights of animals suffering in front of them.
I’d love if someone opened a restaurant that would only serve meat if the customer watches the footage of the animal dying. Only then they can order that food. I’m sure it would divert about 70% people away from meat.
I think it would just divert people away from the restaurant. It would also be hypocritical as the restaurant would have been the one to procure the meat, maybe even killing the animal itself to find the footage. It's basically a waste of money, resources, and everyone's time, and it wouldn't have changed anything
And people tried to argue the angle that she was racist for that account. The hypocrisy was so blinding they literally doubled down on something entirely false just to wave it away as "bad."
I agree with you. To add on, I’m also completely bewildered by veterinarians that eat meat, which is the vast majority of them. They know more than anyone that animals have feelings. They know they feel pain, fear, joy, sadness. They dedicate years of study and effort to help them when they are sick or injured… How do you turn around and eat your patients? Mind-blowing levels of cognitive dissonance.
My former roommate is going to school to be a veterinarian. He loves animals, to the point where he would let spiders (decent size spiders too) just live in his room because they were just chillin. But he would still eat meat, and no matter how much I tried to convince him otherwise, he saw nothing wrong with it. Yet he was against kill ing or removing the spiders. Truly baffling.
I know people like this! It is hard for me not to be infuriated by the hypocrisy. It’s nothing but selfishness in my opinion. Essentially admitting that animals/insects have a right to their lives unless their flesh is tasty. I have no patience for it anymore. I don’t believe people like that love animals like they claim to.
Selective anthropomorphism I would say, along the lines of vets and pet owners who are carnists
Similarly everyone who is human, is human. But slave owners see nothing wrong in slavery and brutal slavery at that, while feeding the poor as Christians do.
all sentient beings are created equal, but some r more equal than others /s
Sorry, but you are simply wrong. When I see a spider, I want to very gently pat its tiny head, I want to carefully kiss it, I want to look it in its beady little eyes, I want to feed it mosquitos and flies. The fact that spiders are unable to understand human affection and are too small to hug and cuddle saddens me greatly. I wish spiders were bigger and smarter, somewhere between dog-height and human-height would be perfect. Some people may be repulsed by such an idea, they are weak. When my time comes I want my body to be eaten by spiders. I want to proliferate spiders across the world.
I love spiders.
> Sorry, but you are simply wrong.
100%, spiders suffer from hateful propaganda the same as sharks, whereas in reality the former are extremely close to cats in their behaviours and mannerisms and the latter are close to dogs. Seriously, spiders have little chuffs and happy noises, they groom themselves just like cats, they have little nap spots that they like to claim as their own, they have tiny little toe beans, people who carry on about them being awful or scary have just never bothered to re-evalutate the prejudiced views society has ingrained in them.
What spiders really need, if one thinks about it, is an internal skeleton and a better oxygen transfer system. Then they could be mighty big and be better able to give and receive hugs.
Spiders are cute. It depends on the spider, not a fan of the big hairy tarantula's and cellar spiders they have in the USA. But in my garden there's some super cute spiders with all sorts of interesting beautiful patterns.
That, of course, doesn't mean I didn't freak the hell out and spilled a bag full of rather expensive and rare seeds when one decided to descend down on my face when I was planting some seeds in a rather risky position. I think a cute kitten or puppy right in front of my nose would've done roughly the same thing.
I personally know alot of medical practicioners who are selfish assholes even though they dedicated years to learing how to make people feel better. I know teachers who hate children. People are much more complicated than 1 or 0.
There are a lot of livestock vets who approach animal care the same way ranchers do - they may "care" about their animals, but it's a harder type of care where in their minds there's a clear line between humans and other animals, and that other animals are ultimately here to be used by humans. So they might not be downright bcruel for most of the animal's life, but the animal's survival and comfort aren't the highest priority for them.
I too believed that vets wanted to help animals. After years of dealing with rescues and vets, I've realized they're here to make money out of animals. They're part of the animal explotation industry. They always try to push for unnecessary treatments and operations, to get you to buy new and more expensive medicines, many times with side effects. They support breeders and hunters. They prescribe expensive meat foods that don't really help much, when actually meat reduction in dogs could often heal them. They never admitt their mistakes in diagnosis and treatment, especially when the animal is left with another problem or a disability after a treatment or operation. They have little concern for the animal's physical and psycological pain, as long as they can keep on prescribing stuff. I have seen them trying to keep sucking money out of pet-owners as much as possible, until it's time to put down the animal, which is also expensive. I don't know a single vegan or even vegetarian vet. After all, they're the only doctors who eat their patients. I'm sorry if any good hearted veterinarian feels offended by this, I hope I will meet an ethical vet one day, but so far this has been my experience rescuing dogs.
veganism is not just about diets. the fact that these dogs need rescuing in the first place says it all. rescue system sounds all fuzzy and warm but insidiously perpetuates the fundamental issues.
Rescuing has nothing to do with the systemic problems. My dog came from a place with 800 dogs. Litters of puppies are dumped there every day, but most of the dogs are abandoned, dumped by hunters etc. Saving those dogs doesn't perpetuate anything.
"a place with **800** dogs"
"**Litters** of puppies are **dumped** there **every day**,"
"most of the dogs are **abandoned**"
"**dumped** by **hunters**"
how is this not systemic..?
What? Because rescue is some part of a solution, not part of the systemic problem. It doesn't perpetuate the problem, believe me, nobody is out there having unwanted litters because they think the dog will be adopted. Lots of those same people in my country dump them in the woods or drown them.
Im in a non profit FB discussion group, a gal said she wanted to have a farm animal rescue but would still want the occasional steak, she said would she be able to get grants
I was surprised but a lot of the comments were logical, saying that she should be the founder of a vegan rescue if she wasnt vegan and that grantors wouldnt want to give her funds if she was harming animals outside but inside she was saving them
>It sounds judgemental, but I’m honestly baffled by how few of them are vegan or even vegetarian. I’ve met quite a few of them over the past couple years and most of them happily eat animal products.
Its not judgemental, it doesnt make sense
If i worked at an orphanage but i regularly abandon my own newborns that would be weird nonsense
Perhaps working with the animals helps alleviate the guilt they have, the simple solution would be to stop doing the thing that makes you guilty but people are stupid
>Are my expectations for people with these profiles too high? I find it hard to ask them about it without sounding judgemental
I have 0 expectations in life, i think asking things is fine, say that you find it confusing and you want to know why they consume animals that they are in charge of helping
I just saw someone comment in another sub about how killing anything is cruel or something along those lines. Checked their profile (since those types always tend to be meat-eaters) but they actually surpassed my low expectations by being a hunter! So that was fun.
Years ago, a work friend told me I was being really cruel to my dogs by feeding them vegan food instead of meat. My logical responses did not resonate, shall we say.
I don’t understand it either. My mom used to take us to an animal sanctuary and she even does charity runs to raise money for it. But this sanctuary has pigs, chickens, and cows, all animals that she eats. And they were rescued from factory farms. I don’t get it.
Reminds of whenever there’s a story of a cow/turkey/chicken escaping a meat plant, everyone online (presumably mostly meat eaters) are rooting for them.
It really is shocking. Having worked in animal sheltering and welfare, I was baffled constantly to be around people who dedicated their lives to saving animals — but only some I suppose.
Now having the same experience in the dog training industry. My colleagues have strong feelings about how dogs are sentient, autonomous beings who deserve respect and opportunities to have choice and control over their lives — but again, it seems to stop and dogs (and sometimes cats).
I just can’t understand it.
I think it's the same reason vegans usually feed their cats and dogs meat products.
They believe it's a natural and necessary part of life for humans to eat animals as well.
Exactly this. My mom was upset when I wanted to stop eating meat as a kid. Kept going on about “the circle of life.”
Yeah mom, the circle of life thing doesn’t really apply when we’re mass producing these animals in concrete warehouses.
Happy to report though that she’s come a long way two decades later, and has even been a vegetarian for more than a year.
I've done a fair bit of time on sea shepherd boats over the years. Their fleet is completely vegan, no animal products are prepared on board. The majority of their campaigning these days is anti fishing (anti-poaching, anti destructive fishing methods, over fishing etc). Yet there would be volunteers on board who weren't even vegetarian. Worse, when we were in port they'd sneak off and go for meat/fish dinners when no one was looking (not that you weren't allowed to do what you wanted with your own dime but definitely not how to endear yourself to a boat of mostly vegans). We'd just spent 3 months at sea battling illegal fishing and trying to convince everyone that we need to eat less fish and preserve the oceans, and the first thing some of them would do was run off and eat a bit of fish.
Cognitive dissonance? I put it down to adventure tourism and virture signaling more than that TBH. Who knows...
I'd say 90% of the people on board were vegan off the ships as well, it was only a minority that weren't, it just blew my mind on my first campagin that not everyone was vegan.
Easy: selfishness and ignorance. It always confused me how people are activists for domesticated animals they can adopt and control, but not those that extend out of those circumstances. A good portion of people only advocate for life & rights when it’s convenient for them.
My partner and I both work in animal welfare/rescue. We know plenty of people who have killed (eaten) many more animals than they’ve saved. It’s absurd. Indoctrination at its finest.
Veganism is one of the only if not the only social justice movement that actually requires action or “sacrifice.” Anyone can say they stand for anything, but only vegans back it up.
It upsets and frustrates me as well as to how many people who want sustainability, cleaner air and water, love animals, recycle, know about the importance of biodiversity and are categorically liberal but still eat meat. Plus, they’re dicks about it and/or use typical meat eater logic when you mention all the ways animal agriculture destroys literally everything. Not a day goes by that I don’t internally fume about it. Here’s what we can do: show Cowspiracy or Dominion to those peoples’ children.
I love you guys ❤️ At least we have each other, on here.
I hate those moments when I remember how pretty much everyone eats animals. Like obviously I always know that, but every so often it really hits me and makes me sad.
People like to talk a big game but the second they need to sacrifice something, they’re out.
I feel the same way about people who are worried about climate change while eating a steak and driving around in a gas powered SUV
my sibling constantly talks about how bad they feel for animals at petting zoos and stuff like that but they eat meat and dairy on a daily basis. it’s maddening tbh.
When I went to California I heard people say how conflicted they are about eating at Chik Fil A because of how bigoted the company is. People aren't willing to make sacrifices. Sometimes they'll even make up bullshit to justify it.
Whitney Cummings is so confusing when it comes to this. Will do absolutely ANYTHING for a random animal’s well-being, but draws the line at torturing and eating them. 🤔
What confuses me even more are sm influencers that claim to be vegan but then use non-vegan products in their cooking videos?? I truly understand that everyone is at a different point in their journey, but if someone is an influencer...
No same I follow this one girl who says she’s vegan and she just did a trip to France I think, and her what I eat in a days were filled with croissants, cheesy pastas, etc. I was so confused??
I was actually booted from a group that rescues street dogs for advocation for veganism. I was making people uncomfortable. At a fundraiser for animal protections I commented to a vendor, of course you are a vegetarian, right. And she started on a list of lame reasons why she supposedly tried, but failed. I ended up not buying anything from her.
yeah, confuses me as well. like i get some people can‘t be vegan for health reasons but it‘s so many??
i‘m not even that good of a person and i lowkey don‘t even care about animals but i‘m still vegan because it’s like the bare minimum i can do??
What eating disorder forces you to eat animal products?
And has science finally discovered the genetic unicorn that's allergic to all plants that I hear so often about on facebook?
Yo when I first tried to go vegan I found restricting my diet in that way and having to constantly look at ingredients on things really triggered my OCD and therefore panic attacks and disordered eating
Lots of people have a histamine intolerance which means you can't eat many vegetables, fruit and legumes like beans and lentils. Its incredibly hard if not impossible to get protein and the right amino acids on a vegan low histamine diet
I was vegan for 6 years before I became severely disabled (thanks covid lol) and need full time care, unable to make my meals. My carers were terrible at cooking vegan gluten free (my allergy) food and as food is literally the one thing I can still enjoy (can't read or watch TV or tolerate too much audio or exercise or talk much or go outside or sit up for more than a few mins etc) I did start incorporating eggs and fish into my diet. I feel really guilty but i struggle with acid reflux and appetite so if I'm given a bowl of food that looks and tastes bad I can't eaten/throw it up so yeah
I know if I recovered I'd go vegan straight away again
So yeah, I hope that gives you some insight
It's alright, I have a good life considering.
It is way more common than you think, just go on the ME/CFS/POTS/MCAS/MS/Dysautomnia/Long subs. If you're chronically ill there is a high chance you will develop these intolerances and there are millions of us.
I was replying to a specific comment which absolutely relates to what I replied and can be put into a wider context too. Plus most, if not all, of the ppl I know with these conditions and intolerances are activists.
Again, it's way more common than you think but disability and disabled ppl aren't really given much visibility so it's hard to imagine. Plus a lot of disabled ppl don't bring everything up about their conditions even ro people they know
it‘s not the eating disorder but more the treatment. veganism diet is restrictive and can be super dangerous for people recovering from (restrictive) eating disorders
Vegan isn't a diet. Many folks recovering from EDs are fully in support of animal rights and animal liberation with no issues, and even if some ultra rare condition somehow required eating animals, it doesn't mean one can't still abhor the exploitation of animals for clothing, entertainment, as property objects, etc. Vegan is about a lot more than just food.
As much as I want to believe facebook on this one (and I really do), I'm gonna go with my gut that this is some grade-A, USDA approved, self-victimizing bullshit.
Basically tweaking your diet in any way when you have eating disorders can be problematic, but at the end of the day I've never found this super convincing either. Some people with eating disorders tell me it makes sense, I've never had it so can't really speak convincingly on the matter
It doesn't work like that. Some people can't consume a very wide range of food, and it's usually vegetables/grains/fruit (and dairy) that trigger those allergies.
That could leave some people with like... 5 different foods they can eat if they wanna be vegan. That's literally not survivable lol
The fundamental difference is that your colleagues still consider animals as completely natural food for humans.
Even though they might fight for better living conditions for them, that does not change the assumption that they are meant to be consumed in the end.
Just ask them. I'm sure you will not be the first one doing so.
It's just straight up cognitive dissonance. I have the same confusion when I talk to anti-communist leftists. Oh well, maybe some day it will click for them.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I will say that I have tried, at various points in my life, to be vegetarian, even to see if I could make the jump to veganism. The most recent was this year, even, after I started working at a vegan restaurant and volunteering at an animal sanctuary, working directly with animals I had eaten, admittedly with some qualms, before.
But I have a history of disordered eating that has left my digestive system a bit of a mess. I am also a very active individual. It has proven to be a challenge to get my nutritional needs met. I lost my menstrual cycle (sorry TMI), and my therapist strongly advised me to reconsider my diet due to their concerns about the potential for nutritional deficits on my mental health.
I’ve listened to audiobooks and podcasts on veganism, as well as a philosophy book on animal justice. I know what it takes to get meat to my plate. Animal rights are very near and dear to my heart. But at the end of the day, if my body and mind aren’t thriving, there’s only so much I can do to contribute to the cause. And, I don’t care what anyone says, eating 100% vegan can be a financial challenge for folks who are either not used to it or don’t have the time or energy to cook. (I’m also disabled, so there’s that)
I won’t eat terrestrial meat, but I’ve settled on pescatarianism as a compromise. I know fish are capable of pain and suffering as well, and I detest the methods used to capture them en masse from both an animal suffering perspective and an environmental impact one. But I figure that is still minimizing my impact, especially since I couldn’t eat fish nearly as often as I used to eat meat (From both a cost and mercury standpoint lol), while ensuring some of my physical needs are met.
So, again, while I can’t speak for anyone else, that at least has been my experience. I admire and applaud everyone who is able to manage total veganism. I think, as some have mentioned, the meat indoctrination is real. The only reason we eat pigs and cows rather than other animals is the propaganda that they aren’t as “sentient.” I think some folks genuinely haven’t made that connection, or they’re afraid to, or simply don’t want to make that sacrifice. But there may be others, like me, who have tried, and may not be able to.
Much like Leonardo DiCaprillo jetting from climate event to climate event, they have decided that their activism is more important than their personal behavior.
My assumption would be (especially if it's not a purely animal rights org) is that it is a job to them. Full stop. A job that makes them feel like they are doing good, but we all agree the hypocrisy is inconceivable. I don't even see how we can call it cognitive dissonance if a person is fully aware of details of factory farming etc. They have just decided meat is more important than doing the right thing. In cases like this, I tend to talk as if I'm in a room full of vegans. Like I don't hide my opinions of eating animals, because jeez stopping that is our job here at this NGO, isn't it? I'd let them correct me from the assumption that we all eat an ethical diet, and then look surprised.
It's very simple. Such leftist do-gooder mentality is usually rooted in the idea that "others" are the problem, or if they are part of the problem, that the solution is something that is not at all limiting or uncomfortable. Cuddling chickens, punching nazi's, screaming about injustice in general.
Actual solutions? Yea fuck that, that's hard work and sacrifice. Let others do that.
I used to go to dog rescue conferences hosted by Best Friends Animal Society and was extremely shocked that the ENTIRE catered multi-day conference was completely vegan.
Some of the people who advocate for animal rights are probably actually championing animal welfare. They're likely thinking that they can eat meat that comes from a cow who was raised "ethically" and was "happy" before being slaughtered, and thinking that's animal rights. They want to have their meat cake and eat it too. 🙄
OP have you been vegan since birth? If not then there's your answer. I ate meat and consumed dairy for 30 years. Now I don't. Be compassionate and provide education to them and inspire change like someone did for you and me. Just expecting people to be vegan isn't really logical at this point in time, it's not normal.
A comparison I often make to this discussion is Linda Mcartney, it's a vegetarian brand, not vegan, so may not be logical to us, but fact of the matter is this brand has probably saved more lives than all of the new vegan brands combined currently in supermarkets. You have to choose your battles sometimes. If they eat meat, that's normal, but at least they are contributing to animal welfare to some degree, which does help. It is hypocritical though, sure.
I don’t think it’s that surprising, it’s paradoxical sure but not remotely surprising.
I know a large number of vegans who are pretty indifferent to other intersectional issues which I see as pretty much the same thing. They will pay these other issues lip service the same way someone who eats meat will say they don’t approve of the way animals are treated in the meat industry but it doesn’t do too much to change their actions.
Low hanging fruit here to provide an example but think how many vegans are comfortable comparing animal slaughter to trans Atlantic slavery or the holocaust. Or think of the growing number of white nationalist in vegan or eco friendly spaces.
it’s interesting, they fight for animal rights and the environment and yet aren’t vegan, yet for me getting into this stuff is why I’m vegan, it’s moral consistency for me, I want to be a good person, to help others, to make the world a better place, I have rather selective empathy, tbh I didn’t become vegan because of feeling bad for animals or the environment, it was because I want to be morally consistent
im partially cofused, tho i know cognitive dissonance and peciesism mostly are a real thing
like the other day at an adoption fair where everyone loves "all" animals, and talks big about animal suffering and such. And then cross the street to have lunch at a stake house
yeah right, they love and care only animals deemd as pets, because the rest is nothing more then a commodity (product) to satisfy their selfish needs
It's the ultimate mental block in human beings' heads. I can't quite understand it beyond the most horrendous callousness or apathy. It drives me insane, I won't lie, almost to the point of mania.
the switch to everyone being vegan will require systemic change, not just in culture, but in human genetics. we evolved to eat meat, and will need to evolve out of it. we need the technology to supply sufficient protein and amino acids without requiring LIFE to produce it. i think it’s possible in a few lifetimes
Oh believe me it’s rough.
My partner works for a company that CLEANS THE OCEAN OF PLASTIC, and all their studies show fishing nets are like 70% of their collections in the water.
They serve fish at their company lunches.
>If they truly respected the animal, wouldn't they leave them alone?
That's you morals, and that's fine. They don't share them, it doesn't make them wrong.
Let me ask this. Do you respect plant life?
I don't know what you would want me to do, my options are eating plants or die. There's no completely synthetic food available.
Of course, other animals eat a lot of plants (and burn off most of their energy) but everyone likes to ignore that part..
I am confused as well!
Related but a little different…at my old job my two vegan coworkers were the only ones in the office who REFUSED to rescue their dogs. They would only go to backyard breeders off Craigslist. That is even worse than going to a reputable breeder. I know for a fact money was not an issue for them. They even said they became vegan because they loved animals so much. It still baffles me to this day.
A combination of national origin, traditions, religion, and heritage.
I mean, in some underdeveloped nations, being vegan (or even vegetarian) isn’t yet sustainable when considering the costs/availability associated with supplements, and dietary diversity.
Some people only feel connected to their family or faith through food, and some traditional dishes simply aren’t able to be converted convincingly enough to allow an entire family to swap… or they simply see changing a recipe as disrespectful.
And lastly, some people are focusing on humanity issues first, and see animal welfare as important… but not their primary concern (Example: If you come from an area where people are literally starving to death, it’s difficult to put animal welfare as a your main priority).
POC and people who believe in equal rights…then turn around and exploit animals. So basically when they are in a power position they do the same thing that they accuse their oppressors are doing.
Same I was thinking about volunteering for the Brigitte Bardot foundation because I love some of what they do for animals and one of their farms isn’t too far away from where I live. When I found out Brigitte Bardot wasn’t vegan I was really surprised! Still want to volunteer but I just can’t get my head around it. 🤷♀️
I like meat. I don't agree about any of the moral stances any of you take. I also don't care if anyone tells me I'm a bad person for eating meat. None of your opinions will ever matter to me. The vast majority of people feel the same way.
As others said, meat is ingrained in our society so many don’t think about it. That’s the first level barrier.
Say you do think about it. It’s hard to sustain because one or more of these can be true: 1) plentiful food options are geared towards omnivores. 2) vegan options may not be tasty when prepared by others, and the person making the choice may lack the time and/or knowledge to prepare tasty vegan food. 3) the body may not easily adapt to the change in protein and nutrient intake from an omnivore diet to vegan. For example, it can cause bad headaches or other effects. 4) because of #1, it’s really easy to go back to an omnivore diet if something does go wrong.
Omg yes! So many delulu people, it also always shocks me. Also organizations like Greenpeace still promote to eat fish even though they want to save the fucking ocean it’s just so ironic!
I’m not someone who hates everyone who isn’t vegan. I live in this world and I keep their murderous eating habits out of my mind and judge them based on their other qualities.
Nevertheless, I don’t understand how anyone knowing that vegans can survive very well without animal products can go on causing so much suffering just because they like the taste of meat.
Because its a journey, and many people lack the discipline to make life changing choices. So even if the groundwork is there it can still be hard to even commit to such a lifestyle choice. Many don't want to fail so don't begin. People do stuff wrong imo. Maybe they tried and failed because even though they have their heart on the right track but they can't cook for shit. For vegan to work, so many other factors have to be there. Its sad but dats how it is. 🤷
Not everyone has time, money and simply ability to go full vegan/vegetarian. I think it's important to remember that it's the effort that counts, these people are already contributing to a cause. IMO it's already much more than most people do.
Veganism is a religion, or at least a way of thought. Vegetarian is simply what our bodies are. Animal products are cheap mass produced easily accessible and high energy
It makes perfect sense once you realize that veganism is an expression of personal responsibility for the harm a person would cause. People working for political solutions to whatever problem don't necessarily have to have any of that.
This is half of why I say that veganism is absolutely NOT political. And at the same time, it is more useful than any political action you can take.
Non-vegan who does full time climate advocacy as a career here who can maybe help provide insight:
Being vegan is 100% the correct thing to do, if everyone was vegan the world would be a better place. For me, it boils down to systemic change vs individual consumption habits. Ofc I know that it would be better if I was vegan, but on the same token, it would be better if I never took commercial air flights as well. My carbon footprint is likely greater from commercial flights than it is animal product consumption.
I still eat meat, and take flights back home to see my family, while knowing that it contributes to making things worse. I try and eat less animal products, and fly for big holidays, but at the end of the day I understand that these are systemic issues and individual consumption choices only go so far. Knowing that makes me want to decrease things like meat eating and flying, but also makes me think that getting them down to 0% just isn’t worth it for me.
It's because killing animals isn't morally bad. As an animal-based person, we are very concerned about the quality of the meat and the cruelty inflicted on animals, which then impacts the nutritional profile of the meat. So for me personally, I only get my meat (mostly ground beef and raw cheese) from cruelty-free farms that have grass-fed cows without any corn or soy in them or GMOs or any other drug, like HGH or tren. That's all to say that some people view fighting animal cruelty as simply treating the animals better when they're alive and not killing them in an immoral way, rather than desiring to end meat consumption as a whole
Thanks for your response, I appreciate it. The term “cruelty-free” feels out of place when the food you’re referring to still requires killing and/or exploiting animals, in my opinion.
Honestly, I think it's because meat is so ingrained into our society's culture. I've been vegan for almost 5 years now, and the longer I've been vegan and thinking more deeply about food and how our society views it, it's just that socially it's most accepted to eat an omnivore diet. Tons of people I know who I'd consider compassionate and caring, and some whom have even admitted that veganism makes sense, eat meat. And I get it. Meat is everywhere. Honestly, I've had to adapt to meat eating around me a lot since I moved half way across the country and made new friends. I have a handful of vegan friends, but it's nothing like the number of omni friends I have. It's just inconvenient to be vegan when food is such a social thing. It connects people. I got exhausted trying to be a more outspoken advocate for veganism. Now, I advocate by just sticking to my morals and always bringing vegan options wherever I go. But meat isn't going anywhere, and it stinks. It's too ingrained.
This is the best way I’ve come to terms with it too. People go to work. They get married. They have kids. They drive a car. They eat meat. These are all just things people “do” (or are expected to do). It’s not good or bad in the eyes of societal norms - just inherent truths that people don’t think to question.
Yes this exactly. Don't get me wrong people are extremely dumb and very very quick to try and justify questionable behaviors, but a good chunk of people genuinely truly do not even think twice about it. Like they don't even think about it. At all. It's not even something that comes up in their mind as something they should question because they don't even know that they should question it.
The meattrix is real. Even though it is hard and sucks, we should always remain outspoken. How else are things gonna change?
I would say this is more true for eggs and dairy? Yes meat is everywhere but so are vegetarians, every restaurant / hotel / event venue / etc. knows that they need to have at least one token vegetarian option, but they usually make it full of cheese or something because they don’t think past “you don’t kill cows to milk them”.
This is true. Meat maybe moreso for the "I just need my protein, bruh" type of mentality, that will sadly never fuck off.
I think you mean ingrained
Yes, lol, thank you Oopsies
I'm an omnivore, but this seems like a really healthy outlook. You could apply the same rationale to most disagreements. Cheers!
I got downvoted today for saying having a beef farmer in the running to be the next leader of our green party in Ireland is a joke. Why does it seem like more and more today people are either willfully blind, happy as shit in cognitive dissonance or just plainly fucking stupid? I'm with you, it's extremely weird and very very frustrating
>or just plainly fucking stupid? Yeah this is the one. People are just very stupid.
Was that in /r/ireland? I got permabanned because I said I made a facebook post calling judge Martin Nolan Noncey Nolan
Yeah, you know how it goes outside of vegan subs, they're very sensitive when their precious diet of meat, milk and hypocrisy is criticised. That's weird, because everyone knows Martin Nolan loves a predator
When you figure it out, please let me know. I too am confused. There was an animal sanctuary near me that had BBQs as fundraisers. Yes, they were cooking animals to raise money to help animals. They didn’t see anything wrong with this. Neither did their supporters. I’ll never understand non-vegans.
Jesus lol I visited a bird 'sanctuary' in surrey a couple of years ago. Horrific conditions. A bold eagle in the tiniest cage couldn't even spread its wings. And the cafe was serving chicken sandwiches
Like a supposed aquatic animal sanctuary here that had a seafood restaurant inside the place, then parked out front was a food truck that sold fish tacos, honestly couldn't believe it.
How awful.
That is absolutely shocking if you are sure it's true. I was an activist for many years and have been to lots of sanctuaries. Every one of them was functionally vegan. True, some volunteers were not vegan and even lots of people who donate, which is by itself weird enough. People are shiite. Stupid shiite.
It's definitely true, periodically there'll be a tiny scandal on the sanctuary circuit over yet another rescue having a bbq or allowing meat to be sold at their fundraisers. They usually just block or remove comments on their socials and it's soon forgotten about as there's always another place to complain about soon enough, and people move on.
It is true. Non-vegan sanctuaries are much more common than you think. And food based fundraisers are often how they do fundraising.
So you'd rather only have vegans donate or care about animals? How is their contribution worth any less because of other things?
yeah, there's no problem here at all, I donate to a fox sanctuary, that saves foxes from the fur industry, but I do that while wearing all my fox fur clothing, it's fine though because they are free range foxes and the farmer takes care of them, I've been to the farm and it all looks great. It is all VERY humane. Seeing any issues yet......?
Eating beef infront of a dog sanctuary? Most people don't care the same about all animals. For me eating a dog would be morally the same as eating a cow. But most people make a distinction between pets and livestock. There are not many cow sanctuaries around. At least where i live there are none.
Would you not consider it at least counterproductive for someone to donate to a dog sanctuary and then going to the track to bet on greyhound racing? Not to patronise, but for those that don't know, In areas with a lot of greyhound racing, there are a lot abandoned when they are not winning races and end up in dog sanctuaries for example.
Why? Still better to donate than to just bet. As they say: money doesn't stink. The sanctuary rather have money from a meat eater than close down for good.
Still better to just donate and not bet.
Well sometimes all you get is the second best.
>Would you not consider it at least counterproductive for someone to donate to a dog sanctuary and then going to the track to bet on greyhound racing? No. That sounds doubly productive, since the person gets both the pleasure of gambling as well as the pleasure of being generous and helping find homes for dogs one might also have bet on. That's efficiency of production.
ah of course, we all know that it's very very easy for all dogs to get homes, none ever have to be destroyed. So support the industry that contributes to the pressure put on the sanctuary in the first place, very efficient. Nice trolling buddy, gave me a good laugh.
No, I'd rather have people who support a farm sanctuary not contribute to the problem that makes farm sanctuaries necessary. It's total hypocrisy.
No its not. People are not binary 1 or 0. You can care about some animals while still eating others. I like some people while hating others. Thats normal. I bet even most vegans care little about mosquitoes or cockroaches. Would you let them infest your flat and move out? Probably not. Doesn't make the rest of your contribution worth any less in my eyes. You can alwaye find what you call hypocracy if you dig deep enough. Surely you use a phone, the internet, power, streets. List goes on and for all of it animals die because we destroy their habitats.
I think most times, people CHOOSE to ignore what they cant see. In this case, the activists choose to ignore the meat industry’s practice because they don’t see it day in and day out. They are more comfortable fighting for rights of animals suffering in front of them. I’d love if someone opened a restaurant that would only serve meat if the customer watches the footage of the animal dying. Only then they can order that food. I’m sure it would divert about 70% people away from meat.
I think it would just divert people away from the restaurant. It would also be hypocritical as the restaurant would have been the one to procure the meat, maybe even killing the animal itself to find the footage. It's basically a waste of money, resources, and everyone's time, and it wouldn't have changed anything
What animal sanctuary? I volunteer at one and I'd hate to think they did that!
It’s no longer around, they thankfully went under.
I think thats what made the Elwood Dogmeat thing so smart, a perfect gut punch to get past the mental gymnastics
And people tried to argue the angle that she was racist for that account. The hypocrisy was so blinding they literally doubled down on something entirely false just to wave it away as "bad."
I agree with you. To add on, I’m also completely bewildered by veterinarians that eat meat, which is the vast majority of them. They know more than anyone that animals have feelings. They know they feel pain, fear, joy, sadness. They dedicate years of study and effort to help them when they are sick or injured… How do you turn around and eat your patients? Mind-blowing levels of cognitive dissonance.
My former roommate is going to school to be a veterinarian. He loves animals, to the point where he would let spiders (decent size spiders too) just live in his room because they were just chillin. But he would still eat meat, and no matter how much I tried to convince him otherwise, he saw nothing wrong with it. Yet he was against kill ing or removing the spiders. Truly baffling.
I know people like this! It is hard for me not to be infuriated by the hypocrisy. It’s nothing but selfishness in my opinion. Essentially admitting that animals/insects have a right to their lives unless their flesh is tasty. I have no patience for it anymore. I don’t believe people like that love animals like they claim to.
Selective anthropomorphism I would say, along the lines of vets and pet owners who are carnists Similarly everyone who is human, is human. But slave owners see nothing wrong in slavery and brutal slavery at that, while feeding the poor as Christians do. all sentient beings are created equal, but some r more equal than others /s
Spiders are cute, and it's time people fucking admit it.
You sound exactly like said roommate lmao. But no spiders are absolutely not cute
Sorry, but you are simply wrong. When I see a spider, I want to very gently pat its tiny head, I want to carefully kiss it, I want to look it in its beady little eyes, I want to feed it mosquitos and flies. The fact that spiders are unable to understand human affection and are too small to hug and cuddle saddens me greatly. I wish spiders were bigger and smarter, somewhere between dog-height and human-height would be perfect. Some people may be repulsed by such an idea, they are weak. When my time comes I want my body to be eaten by spiders. I want to proliferate spiders across the world. I love spiders.
> Sorry, but you are simply wrong. 100%, spiders suffer from hateful propaganda the same as sharks, whereas in reality the former are extremely close to cats in their behaviours and mannerisms and the latter are close to dogs. Seriously, spiders have little chuffs and happy noises, they groom themselves just like cats, they have little nap spots that they like to claim as their own, they have tiny little toe beans, people who carry on about them being awful or scary have just never bothered to re-evalutate the prejudiced views society has ingrained in them.
What spiders really need, if one thinks about it, is an internal skeleton and a better oxygen transfer system. Then they could be mighty big and be better able to give and receive hugs.
This one is definitely cute - https://www.pinterest.com/pin/122371314861932948/
Spiders are cute. It depends on the spider, not a fan of the big hairy tarantula's and cellar spiders they have in the USA. But in my garden there's some super cute spiders with all sorts of interesting beautiful patterns. That, of course, doesn't mean I didn't freak the hell out and spilled a bag full of rather expensive and rare seeds when one decided to descend down on my face when I was planting some seeds in a rather risky position. I think a cute kitten or puppy right in front of my nose would've done roughly the same thing.
I love spiders, too. Maybe you would understand if you loved spiders more?
Yeah spiders are cute
Most people who claim to love animals really only love pets.
And even those, most people see them as lesser beings unfortunately
I personally know alot of medical practicioners who are selfish assholes even though they dedicated years to learing how to make people feel better. I know teachers who hate children. People are much more complicated than 1 or 0.
There are a lot of livestock vets who approach animal care the same way ranchers do - they may "care" about their animals, but it's a harder type of care where in their minds there's a clear line between humans and other animals, and that other animals are ultimately here to be used by humans. So they might not be downright bcruel for most of the animal's life, but the animal's survival and comfort aren't the highest priority for them.
I too believed that vets wanted to help animals. After years of dealing with rescues and vets, I've realized they're here to make money out of animals. They're part of the animal explotation industry. They always try to push for unnecessary treatments and operations, to get you to buy new and more expensive medicines, many times with side effects. They support breeders and hunters. They prescribe expensive meat foods that don't really help much, when actually meat reduction in dogs could often heal them. They never admitt their mistakes in diagnosis and treatment, especially when the animal is left with another problem or a disability after a treatment or operation. They have little concern for the animal's physical and psycological pain, as long as they can keep on prescribing stuff. I have seen them trying to keep sucking money out of pet-owners as much as possible, until it's time to put down the animal, which is also expensive. I don't know a single vegan or even vegetarian vet. After all, they're the only doctors who eat their patients. I'm sorry if any good hearted veterinarian feels offended by this, I hope I will meet an ethical vet one day, but so far this has been my experience rescuing dogs.
the entirety of pet industry is not compatible with veganism.
Most of the industry, true. But all of my rescued dogs have eaten vegan diets and done great on them.
veganism is not just about diets. the fact that these dogs need rescuing in the first place says it all. rescue system sounds all fuzzy and warm but insidiously perpetuates the fundamental issues.
Rescuing has nothing to do with the systemic problems. My dog came from a place with 800 dogs. Litters of puppies are dumped there every day, but most of the dogs are abandoned, dumped by hunters etc. Saving those dogs doesn't perpetuate anything.
"a place with **800** dogs" "**Litters** of puppies are **dumped** there **every day**," "most of the dogs are **abandoned**" "**dumped** by **hunters**" how is this not systemic..?
What? Because rescue is some part of a solution, not part of the systemic problem. It doesn't perpetuate the problem, believe me, nobody is out there having unwanted litters because they think the dog will be adopted. Lots of those same people in my country dump them in the woods or drown them.
Im in a non profit FB discussion group, a gal said she wanted to have a farm animal rescue but would still want the occasional steak, she said would she be able to get grants I was surprised but a lot of the comments were logical, saying that she should be the founder of a vegan rescue if she wasnt vegan and that grantors wouldnt want to give her funds if she was harming animals outside but inside she was saving them >It sounds judgemental, but I’m honestly baffled by how few of them are vegan or even vegetarian. I’ve met quite a few of them over the past couple years and most of them happily eat animal products. Its not judgemental, it doesnt make sense If i worked at an orphanage but i regularly abandon my own newborns that would be weird nonsense Perhaps working with the animals helps alleviate the guilt they have, the simple solution would be to stop doing the thing that makes you guilty but people are stupid >Are my expectations for people with these profiles too high? I find it hard to ask them about it without sounding judgemental I have 0 expectations in life, i think asking things is fine, say that you find it confusing and you want to know why they consume animals that they are in charge of helping
I just saw someone comment in another sub about how killing anything is cruel or something along those lines. Checked their profile (since those types always tend to be meat-eaters) but they actually surpassed my low expectations by being a hunter! So that was fun.
Years ago, a work friend told me I was being really cruel to my dogs by feeding them vegan food instead of meat. My logical responses did not resonate, shall we say.
Which is so stupid since vegan dog diets are healthier than regular kibble.
I don’t understand it either. My mom used to take us to an animal sanctuary and she even does charity runs to raise money for it. But this sanctuary has pigs, chickens, and cows, all animals that she eats. And they were rescued from factory farms. I don’t get it.
Reminds of whenever there’s a story of a cow/turkey/chicken escaping a meat plant, everyone online (presumably mostly meat eaters) are rooting for them.
Everybody roots for a winner.
It really is shocking. Having worked in animal sheltering and welfare, I was baffled constantly to be around people who dedicated their lives to saving animals — but only some I suppose. Now having the same experience in the dog training industry. My colleagues have strong feelings about how dogs are sentient, autonomous beings who deserve respect and opportunities to have choice and control over their lives — but again, it seems to stop and dogs (and sometimes cats). I just can’t understand it.
I think it's the same reason vegans usually feed their cats and dogs meat products. They believe it's a natural and necessary part of life for humans to eat animals as well.
Exactly this. My mom was upset when I wanted to stop eating meat as a kid. Kept going on about “the circle of life.” Yeah mom, the circle of life thing doesn’t really apply when we’re mass producing these animals in concrete warehouses. Happy to report though that she’s come a long way two decades later, and has even been a vegetarian for more than a year.
I've done a fair bit of time on sea shepherd boats over the years. Their fleet is completely vegan, no animal products are prepared on board. The majority of their campaigning these days is anti fishing (anti-poaching, anti destructive fishing methods, over fishing etc). Yet there would be volunteers on board who weren't even vegetarian. Worse, when we were in port they'd sneak off and go for meat/fish dinners when no one was looking (not that you weren't allowed to do what you wanted with your own dime but definitely not how to endear yourself to a boat of mostly vegans). We'd just spent 3 months at sea battling illegal fishing and trying to convince everyone that we need to eat less fish and preserve the oceans, and the first thing some of them would do was run off and eat a bit of fish. Cognitive dissonance? I put it down to adventure tourism and virture signaling more than that TBH. Who knows... I'd say 90% of the people on board were vegan off the ships as well, it was only a minority that weren't, it just blew my mind on my first campagin that not everyone was vegan.
I saw a photo of Paul Watson eating a steak in Vermont several years ago
I've heard that before. No idea if it's true as there are a lot of things said about said about him but if so that'd be pretty disappointing.
That's mindblowing :(
OMG that would be so triggering, what the fuck
Easy: selfishness and ignorance. It always confused me how people are activists for domesticated animals they can adopt and control, but not those that extend out of those circumstances. A good portion of people only advocate for life & rights when it’s convenient for them.
My partner and I both work in animal welfare/rescue. We know plenty of people who have killed (eaten) many more animals than they’ve saved. It’s absurd. Indoctrination at its finest.
“Indoctrination” was exactly the word I was looking for to describe this phenomenon.
Veganism is one of the only if not the only social justice movement that actually requires action or “sacrifice.” Anyone can say they stand for anything, but only vegans back it up.
Bingo. People talk a big game but vegans actually put our money where our mouth is.
Which is in turn also why it’s such an unpopular stance.
It upsets and frustrates me as well as to how many people who want sustainability, cleaner air and water, love animals, recycle, know about the importance of biodiversity and are categorically liberal but still eat meat. Plus, they’re dicks about it and/or use typical meat eater logic when you mention all the ways animal agriculture destroys literally everything. Not a day goes by that I don’t internally fume about it. Here’s what we can do: show Cowspiracy or Dominion to those peoples’ children. I love you guys ❤️ At least we have each other, on here.
Career activists says it all
It's so frustrating! The cognitive dissonance is real. I feel so sad that we are such a minority. I love animals so much and I wish more people cared.
I hate those moments when I remember how pretty much everyone eats animals. Like obviously I always know that, but every so often it really hits me and makes me sad.
People like to talk a big game but the second they need to sacrifice something, they’re out. I feel the same way about people who are worried about climate change while eating a steak and driving around in a gas powered SUV
People like to talk about how 'worried' they are but are unwilling to lift a finger if it won't benefit them directly
my sibling constantly talks about how bad they feel for animals at petting zoos and stuff like that but they eat meat and dairy on a daily basis. it’s maddening tbh.
When I went to California I heard people say how conflicted they are about eating at Chik Fil A because of how bigoted the company is. People aren't willing to make sacrifices. Sometimes they'll even make up bullshit to justify it.
Whitney Cummings is so confusing when it comes to this. Will do absolutely ANYTHING for a random animal’s well-being, but draws the line at torturing and eating them. 🤔
What confuses me even more are sm influencers that claim to be vegan but then use non-vegan products in their cooking videos?? I truly understand that everyone is at a different point in their journey, but if someone is an influencer...
No same I follow this one girl who says she’s vegan and she just did a trip to France I think, and her what I eat in a days were filled with croissants, cheesy pastas, etc. I was so confused??
I was actually booted from a group that rescues street dogs for advocation for veganism. I was making people uncomfortable. At a fundraiser for animal protections I commented to a vendor, of course you are a vegetarian, right. And she started on a list of lame reasons why she supposedly tried, but failed. I ended up not buying anything from her.
yeah, confuses me as well. like i get some people can‘t be vegan for health reasons but it‘s so many?? i‘m not even that good of a person and i lowkey don‘t even care about animals but i‘m still vegan because it’s like the bare minimum i can do??
What health reasons prevent a person from being vegan?
eating disorders, lots of allergies/food sensitivities etc
What eating disorder forces you to eat animal products? And has science finally discovered the genetic unicorn that's allergic to all plants that I hear so often about on facebook?
Yo when I first tried to go vegan I found restricting my diet in that way and having to constantly look at ingredients on things really triggered my OCD and therefore panic attacks and disordered eating Lots of people have a histamine intolerance which means you can't eat many vegetables, fruit and legumes like beans and lentils. Its incredibly hard if not impossible to get protein and the right amino acids on a vegan low histamine diet I was vegan for 6 years before I became severely disabled (thanks covid lol) and need full time care, unable to make my meals. My carers were terrible at cooking vegan gluten free (my allergy) food and as food is literally the one thing I can still enjoy (can't read or watch TV or tolerate too much audio or exercise or talk much or go outside or sit up for more than a few mins etc) I did start incorporating eggs and fish into my diet. I feel really guilty but i struggle with acid reflux and appetite so if I'm given a bowl of food that looks and tastes bad I can't eaten/throw it up so yeah I know if I recovered I'd go vegan straight away again So yeah, I hope that gives you some insight
I’m very sorry this happens to you. That said, it’s an extremely specific condition and doesn’t apply to OP’s question
It's alright, I have a good life considering. It is way more common than you think, just go on the ME/CFS/POTS/MCAS/MS/Dysautomnia/Long subs. If you're chronically ill there is a high chance you will develop these intolerances and there are millions of us. I was replying to a specific comment which absolutely relates to what I replied and can be put into a wider context too. Plus most, if not all, of the ppl I know with these conditions and intolerances are activists. Again, it's way more common than you think but disability and disabled ppl aren't really given much visibility so it's hard to imagine. Plus a lot of disabled ppl don't bring everything up about their conditions even ro people they know
While not necessarily forcing a diet, having autism can make eating very difficult, especially if you happen to be allergic to both soy and gluten.
ARFID
Not the animal's problem. I guarantee you this can be sorted out with plant-based solutions. Apply your brain and try things.
it‘s not the eating disorder but more the treatment. veganism diet is restrictive and can be super dangerous for people recovering from (restrictive) eating disorders
Vegan isn't a diet. Many folks recovering from EDs are fully in support of animal rights and animal liberation with no issues, and even if some ultra rare condition somehow required eating animals, it doesn't mean one can't still abhor the exploitation of animals for clothing, entertainment, as property objects, etc. Vegan is about a lot more than just food.
As much as I want to believe facebook on this one (and I really do), I'm gonna go with my gut that this is some grade-A, USDA approved, self-victimizing bullshit.
i like how you have so much compassion for animals but none for people
Coddling people and validating their nonsense isn't compassion.
You think a serious eating disorder that frequently leads to death is "nonsense"?
There is no serious eating disorder that prevents people from eating vegan food. That is indeed nonsense.
Basically tweaking your diet in any way when you have eating disorders can be problematic, but at the end of the day I've never found this super convincing either. Some people with eating disorders tell me it makes sense, I've never had it so can't really speak convincingly on the matter
That’s nonsense. Just adjust the diet to avoid the allergens. It may not be easy, but it’s certainly the morally correct thing to do
It doesn't work like that. Some people can't consume a very wide range of food, and it's usually vegetables/grains/fruit (and dairy) that trigger those allergies. That could leave some people with like... 5 different foods they can eat if they wanna be vegan. That's literally not survivable lol
It's like, people only do things for money, and that's sad
We have many weak individuals who do things for credit, only, and money wherever possible.
The fundamental difference is that your colleagues still consider animals as completely natural food for humans. Even though they might fight for better living conditions for them, that does not change the assumption that they are meant to be consumed in the end. Just ask them. I'm sure you will not be the first one doing so.
It's just straight up cognitive dissonance. I have the same confusion when I talk to anti-communist leftists. Oh well, maybe some day it will click for them.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I will say that I have tried, at various points in my life, to be vegetarian, even to see if I could make the jump to veganism. The most recent was this year, even, after I started working at a vegan restaurant and volunteering at an animal sanctuary, working directly with animals I had eaten, admittedly with some qualms, before. But I have a history of disordered eating that has left my digestive system a bit of a mess. I am also a very active individual. It has proven to be a challenge to get my nutritional needs met. I lost my menstrual cycle (sorry TMI), and my therapist strongly advised me to reconsider my diet due to their concerns about the potential for nutritional deficits on my mental health. I’ve listened to audiobooks and podcasts on veganism, as well as a philosophy book on animal justice. I know what it takes to get meat to my plate. Animal rights are very near and dear to my heart. But at the end of the day, if my body and mind aren’t thriving, there’s only so much I can do to contribute to the cause. And, I don’t care what anyone says, eating 100% vegan can be a financial challenge for folks who are either not used to it or don’t have the time or energy to cook. (I’m also disabled, so there’s that) I won’t eat terrestrial meat, but I’ve settled on pescatarianism as a compromise. I know fish are capable of pain and suffering as well, and I detest the methods used to capture them en masse from both an animal suffering perspective and an environmental impact one. But I figure that is still minimizing my impact, especially since I couldn’t eat fish nearly as often as I used to eat meat (From both a cost and mercury standpoint lol), while ensuring some of my physical needs are met. So, again, while I can’t speak for anyone else, that at least has been my experience. I admire and applaud everyone who is able to manage total veganism. I think, as some have mentioned, the meat indoctrination is real. The only reason we eat pigs and cows rather than other animals is the propaganda that they aren’t as “sentient.” I think some folks genuinely haven’t made that connection, or they’re afraid to, or simply don’t want to make that sacrifice. But there may be others, like me, who have tried, and may not be able to.
Thanks for your honesty and for sharing your journey.
Religion, some carnists torture animals and then claim it doesn't count as torture because their holy book say it's not.
Most atheists are not vegan, either.
Last week I got shamed for saying something isn’t vegan…I’m a sustainability department…I don’t care if they don’t eat meat..but why shame me ?
Much like Leonardo DiCaprillo jetting from climate event to climate event, they have decided that their activism is more important than their personal behavior.
Maybe they are there mostly for the climate change part
If cognitive dissonance did not exist, more than half the planet would be vegan.
My assumption would be (especially if it's not a purely animal rights org) is that it is a job to them. Full stop. A job that makes them feel like they are doing good, but we all agree the hypocrisy is inconceivable. I don't even see how we can call it cognitive dissonance if a person is fully aware of details of factory farming etc. They have just decided meat is more important than doing the right thing. In cases like this, I tend to talk as if I'm in a room full of vegans. Like I don't hide my opinions of eating animals, because jeez stopping that is our job here at this NGO, isn't it? I'd let them correct me from the assumption that we all eat an ethical diet, and then look surprised.
When the WWF wanted a donation i ask them if they're vegan first. They never are
It's very simple. Such leftist do-gooder mentality is usually rooted in the idea that "others" are the problem, or if they are part of the problem, that the solution is something that is not at all limiting or uncomfortable. Cuddling chickens, punching nazi's, screaming about injustice in general. Actual solutions? Yea fuck that, that's hard work and sacrifice. Let others do that.
I used to go to dog rescue conferences hosted by Best Friends Animal Society and was extremely shocked that the ENTIRE catered multi-day conference was completely vegan. Some of the people who advocate for animal rights are probably actually championing animal welfare. They're likely thinking that they can eat meat that comes from a cow who was raised "ethically" and was "happy" before being slaughtered, and thinking that's animal rights. They want to have their meat cake and eat it too. 🙄
OP have you been vegan since birth? If not then there's your answer. I ate meat and consumed dairy for 30 years. Now I don't. Be compassionate and provide education to them and inspire change like someone did for you and me. Just expecting people to be vegan isn't really logical at this point in time, it's not normal. A comparison I often make to this discussion is Linda Mcartney, it's a vegetarian brand, not vegan, so may not be logical to us, but fact of the matter is this brand has probably saved more lives than all of the new vegan brands combined currently in supermarkets. You have to choose your battles sometimes. If they eat meat, that's normal, but at least they are contributing to animal welfare to some degree, which does help. It is hypocritical though, sure.
I don’t think it’s that surprising, it’s paradoxical sure but not remotely surprising. I know a large number of vegans who are pretty indifferent to other intersectional issues which I see as pretty much the same thing. They will pay these other issues lip service the same way someone who eats meat will say they don’t approve of the way animals are treated in the meat industry but it doesn’t do too much to change their actions. Low hanging fruit here to provide an example but think how many vegans are comfortable comparing animal slaughter to trans Atlantic slavery or the holocaust. Or think of the growing number of white nationalist in vegan or eco friendly spaces.
Same here. I work in an NGO for environment protection. I'm the only vegan, and there's one vegetarian I think. That's it. Also disappointed/confused.
Sorry to hear it, I feel your pain!
it’s interesting, they fight for animal rights and the environment and yet aren’t vegan, yet for me getting into this stuff is why I’m vegan, it’s moral consistency for me, I want to be a good person, to help others, to make the world a better place, I have rather selective empathy, tbh I didn’t become vegan because of feeling bad for animals or the environment, it was because I want to be morally consistent
im partially cofused, tho i know cognitive dissonance and peciesism mostly are a real thing like the other day at an adoption fair where everyone loves "all" animals, and talks big about animal suffering and such. And then cross the street to have lunch at a stake house yeah right, they love and care only animals deemd as pets, because the rest is nothing more then a commodity (product) to satisfy their selfish needs
It's the ultimate mental block in human beings' heads. I can't quite understand it beyond the most horrendous callousness or apathy. It drives me insane, I won't lie, almost to the point of mania.
the switch to everyone being vegan will require systemic change, not just in culture, but in human genetics. we evolved to eat meat, and will need to evolve out of it. we need the technology to supply sufficient protein and amino acids without requiring LIFE to produce it. i think it’s possible in a few lifetimes
Oh believe me it’s rough. My partner works for a company that CLEANS THE OCEAN OF PLASTIC, and all their studies show fishing nets are like 70% of their collections in the water. They serve fish at their company lunches.
Some of the biggest contributors to wildlife preservation are hunters.
Only because they want to kill, so they save just enough land so they can continue with blood sports
Not true at all. I know many hunters, and this is not the mentality.
Then what is their mentality?
A respectful and harmonious existence with nature, and desire to avoid factory farming, a closer relationship with their ancestors and wildlife.
This kind of mentality completely disregards the individual- the victim. We can avoid factory farming and hunting at the same time
Spend time with hunters, honestly. They do knot disregard the "victim". Or don't. I can tell you like to argue from a position of ignorance.
I know hunters. I have hunters in my family. If they truly respected the animal, wouldn't they leave them alone?
>If they truly respected the animal, wouldn't they leave them alone? That's you morals, and that's fine. They don't share them, it doesn't make them wrong. Let me ask this. Do you respect plant life?
I don't know what you would want me to do, my options are eating plants or die. There's no completely synthetic food available. Of course, other animals eat a lot of plants (and burn off most of their energy) but everyone likes to ignore that part..
Everything we believe, at one time we didnt. Everyone is on their own journey.
I am confused as well! Related but a little different…at my old job my two vegan coworkers were the only ones in the office who REFUSED to rescue their dogs. They would only go to backyard breeders off Craigslist. That is even worse than going to a reputable breeder. I know for a fact money was not an issue for them. They even said they became vegan because they loved animals so much. It still baffles me to this day.
Separate question (if you don’t mind me asking) but how did you start working there and what kind of work is it?
A combination of national origin, traditions, religion, and heritage. I mean, in some underdeveloped nations, being vegan (or even vegetarian) isn’t yet sustainable when considering the costs/availability associated with supplements, and dietary diversity. Some people only feel connected to their family or faith through food, and some traditional dishes simply aren’t able to be converted convincingly enough to allow an entire family to swap… or they simply see changing a recipe as disrespectful. And lastly, some people are focusing on humanity issues first, and see animal welfare as important… but not their primary concern (Example: If you come from an area where people are literally starving to death, it’s difficult to put animal welfare as a your main priority).
POC and people who believe in equal rights…then turn around and exploit animals. So basically when they are in a power position they do the same thing that they accuse their oppressors are doing.
A lot of people protest for protests' sake.
Maybe they think that eating meat but helping animals in some way is better than to eat meat and do nothing
Same I was thinking about volunteering for the Brigitte Bardot foundation because I love some of what they do for animals and one of their farms isn’t too far away from where I live. When I found out Brigitte Bardot wasn’t vegan I was really surprised! Still want to volunteer but I just can’t get my head around it. 🤷♀️
To me it’s just easier bc I can cook the same meals for my family since both everyone is completely ok with giving up meat like some of ys
I am the opposite, I am on a plant based diet, because I care about my health, and also I care about the environment. I don't care much about animals.
I’m honestly confused when vegans don’t take covid precautions. So the layers have layers.
There’s a lot of people who want to be vegan but physically don’t feel well doing so.
I like meat. I don't agree about any of the moral stances any of you take. I also don't care if anyone tells me I'm a bad person for eating meat. None of your opinions will ever matter to me. The vast majority of people feel the same way.
As others said, meat is ingrained in our society so many don’t think about it. That’s the first level barrier. Say you do think about it. It’s hard to sustain because one or more of these can be true: 1) plentiful food options are geared towards omnivores. 2) vegan options may not be tasty when prepared by others, and the person making the choice may lack the time and/or knowledge to prepare tasty vegan food. 3) the body may not easily adapt to the change in protein and nutrient intake from an omnivore diet to vegan. For example, it can cause bad headaches or other effects. 4) because of #1, it’s really easy to go back to an omnivore diet if something does go wrong.
It's about convenience still. Passion allows them to fight, convenience makes them take no action while knowing veganism exists.
Omg yes! So many delulu people, it also always shocks me. Also organizations like Greenpeace still promote to eat fish even though they want to save the fucking ocean it’s just so ironic!
I’m not someone who hates everyone who isn’t vegan. I live in this world and I keep their murderous eating habits out of my mind and judge them based on their other qualities. Nevertheless, I don’t understand how anyone knowing that vegans can survive very well without animal products can go on causing so much suffering just because they like the taste of meat.
Meat taste too good
They are only in those NGOs because it's cool, not because they actually want to change anything.
Contribution is welcome. You dont have to be perfect, and its not a religious purity test
Because humans are full of contractions.
Because its a journey, and many people lack the discipline to make life changing choices. So even if the groundwork is there it can still be hard to even commit to such a lifestyle choice. Many don't want to fail so don't begin. People do stuff wrong imo. Maybe they tried and failed because even though they have their heart on the right track but they can't cook for shit. For vegan to work, so many other factors have to be there. Its sad but dats how it is. 🤷
Not everyone has time, money and simply ability to go full vegan/vegetarian. I think it's important to remember that it's the effort that counts, these people are already contributing to a cause. IMO it's already much more than most people do.
Veganism is a religion, or at least a way of thought. Vegetarian is simply what our bodies are. Animal products are cheap mass produced easily accessible and high energy
Meat is delicious. And humans are omnivores.
100% agree😌😊
It makes perfect sense once you realize that veganism is an expression of personal responsibility for the harm a person would cause. People working for political solutions to whatever problem don't necessarily have to have any of that. This is half of why I say that veganism is absolutely NOT political. And at the same time, it is more useful than any political action you can take.
Non-vegan who does full time climate advocacy as a career here who can maybe help provide insight: Being vegan is 100% the correct thing to do, if everyone was vegan the world would be a better place. For me, it boils down to systemic change vs individual consumption habits. Ofc I know that it would be better if I was vegan, but on the same token, it would be better if I never took commercial air flights as well. My carbon footprint is likely greater from commercial flights than it is animal product consumption. I still eat meat, and take flights back home to see my family, while knowing that it contributes to making things worse. I try and eat less animal products, and fly for big holidays, but at the end of the day I understand that these are systemic issues and individual consumption choices only go so far. Knowing that makes me want to decrease things like meat eating and flying, but also makes me think that getting them down to 0% just isn’t worth it for me.
if a full-time climate advocate won't even do it, why would anyone
It really weirds me out when I hear non vegans grieve their pets
It's because killing animals isn't morally bad. As an animal-based person, we are very concerned about the quality of the meat and the cruelty inflicted on animals, which then impacts the nutritional profile of the meat. So for me personally, I only get my meat (mostly ground beef and raw cheese) from cruelty-free farms that have grass-fed cows without any corn or soy in them or GMOs or any other drug, like HGH or tren. That's all to say that some people view fighting animal cruelty as simply treating the animals better when they're alive and not killing them in an immoral way, rather than desiring to end meat consumption as a whole
Thanks for your response, I appreciate it. The term “cruelty-free” feels out of place when the food you’re referring to still requires killing and/or exploiting animals, in my opinion.
Why is killing and exploitation per se cruel though?