I remember reading an old Vermont news article with locals complaining about a few naked people loitering in front of a gas station, making people feel uncomfortable. And the sheriff nonchalantly says, well the upcoming cold weather will solve that problem by itself.
This could determine if he was committing a crime. Nakedness is not illegal but behaving lewdly (thrusting) could be construed as a crime. Either way, the guy is a creep.
Not to mention OP said the dude undressed at his vehicle which, by Vt definition classifies it as a crime cause he left his place dressed and then became naked
This is folklore. There's no law against undressing in public, if you do it discreetly.
Hiking nude is legal, but deliberately flashing people — like this guy did — falls under the category of ”lewd and lascivious behavior", and that's definitely not allowed.
Can we just make a distinction between the nudity and the behavior accompanying it? If someone is "thrusty" it's problematic no matter if they are clothed or un. And someone's right to be nude should not depend on age, gender, or attractiveness. It's disconcerting the number of comments that are about the desirability of whether people would "want" to see you naked.
If people want to sexualize plain nudity, that's their own issue. But if you think nudity should be allowed, it should be allowed for all body types
Skinny dipping, no problem. Running around shoving one's junk at people is a different matter. Though if it's a male, a little tap in the right place should take care of things.
"Assault" does not necessarily involve physical harm. A naked guy who walks up and waves his dick in my (or my kid's) face is committing assault. If Naked Guy walks up and shakes hands, he is doing nothing wrong. And whatever the law says, if he wants to be lewd at a safe distance I am OK with that. His business.
Assault does involve contact or fear of contact though. Someone can wave whatever body part they want, if there's no reasonable chance of them touch you it's not assault.
Vermont has always had an appreciation of the natural and a more old school European vibe than other states. I just wonder if all these pearl clutchers really think that children across much of Europe, Africa, many indigenous tribes, and some parts of South America are all being abused by simply witnessing nakedness. Yes, we live in a country that was founded with heavy puritanical Christian views, but seeing nude bodies isn't child abuse. I assume all the shocked people were too young to get National Geographic in the '80s...
Hahaha it's also a [favorite mountain](https://www.adirondack.net/business/couchsachraga-peak-11124/) of mine—that said, people do call it cooch, so your point stands.
You notice it's only men who do this. it's a fucking power play entitlement issue. They know they can walk around with their gross old snake hanging down, shocking people.
if they REALLY enjoyed naked hiking, there's TONS of woods without a single person around. they're doing it on purpose. Gross.
Nah just saw a woman take all of her clothes off in a high school parking lot and hang them on her car to dry. My kids were busy playing soccer so luckily they didn’t notice.
Nope, read the statutes. Public disrobing *per se" is fine. It's lewd behavior that's illegal. If you're undressing to go swimming, no problem. If you're undressing with the deliberate intention of having people see you undress, that's not ok.
But disrobing at a high school? That sounds like it should be illegal since it's just wrong imo. Wanna be naked sure whatever but getting naked at a school is just no for me
That's not true at all? I'd say women are a lot more likely to expose more skin, and a lot less likely to get scrutinized for it! Your discomfort with male nudity is not anyone else's issue.
Yup, it's always men and they get off on forcing their nudity on others. Fucking perverts. There is plenty of off trail woods to be naked in, but it's not about being a naturist it's all about exposing themselves to (potentially) women and children.
There’s a dude that runs the trails behind the Montpelier pool fully nude all summer too, kinda odd but it’s not hurting anyone and it’s totally legal to do so
He's also not a young guy... I've run past him quite a few times. He does seem to always have a hand towel, but he clearly does not have a care in the world about nudity on a very popular trail that is within a stone's throw of the local pool. My kids' old preschool is also in that area, and they regularly hiked on the North Branch trails where he runs. I never heard about them bumping into him, or maybe he was considerate enough to use the little towel when he came across groups of preschoolers?
Adding my 2 cents for posterior er.. posterity.
Me and my friends have come across a naked hiker (probably the same guy) a few times and I didn't like the vibe.
I'm not anti-nudity at all, but it felt deliberately aggressive. He struck up a lengthy conversation rather than the usual hiker's nod. I'm familiar with the german FKK laws (free body culture) and I'm down with those, but here there is a feeling of wrong context and/or lack of consent (or lack thereof) that made the whole thing feel icky.
It really feels like he does it for the thrill of seeing people and not a genuine interest in being naked in nature, which of course you could do Vermont without being seen.
Alrighty. I happen to love swimming when naked because I absolutely detest bathing suits. It’s nice to swim and sunbathe in the buff and I gravitate exclusively toward those spots.
I cannot at all understand the allure of hiking or biking or whatever all else while naked. Clothes serve a protective purpose for the body against bugs, scrapes, etc. PLUS the physics of various body parts just flopping around everywhere… no thank you.
All of this said, I think some people are obsessively weird about being naked, and some people are obsessively prudish about seeing naked bodies. Like, can’t we just all be cool?
The laws in Vermont make this legal. You shouldn't be surprised that people go out and do this. If you don't want your kids to look at someone's penis, then voice your discomfort with the law. Don't voice your discomfort on people whose actions are legally protected.
Obviously, if he is pointing or wagging his penis at children, or being sexual about it to anyone, then that would not be legally protected.
> It's ok to critique legal behavior. It's legal to piss in the sink and I think it's reasonable to voice discomfort with someone doing that.
correct. that's a 1a thing right there.
> Don't voice your discomfort on people whose actions are legally protected.
>
>
Nah. Behavior can be legal but still be inappropriate. Violating personal space, staring at people, talking loudly about topics that make people uncomfortable, giving lots of attention to children you don't know, commenting on other people's bodies ... it's all legal. But if someone's doing it, they should be called out.
People have a right to behave like assholes. And other people have a right to tell them they're being assholes.
There are a lot of things that are legal that are wrong. There are things that are illegal that are actually OK. It’s been like that throughout history. Whether something is legal or not is only part of the moral framework we use, Laser-Nipples
Members of society hold others accountable first
Yeah, but the vast majority of things that are legal, but still wrong were never illegal in the first place. Vermont took something that is widely recognized as illegal and socially unjustified across the entire country and made it legally protected. That's a pretty big distinction, and I figured that was implied, but apparently I need to explain this.
I think they just never got around to passing laws against some things to start with (nudity among them). My theory has always been that they just didn't want to make the law books so thick that nobody reads them.
I play disc golf on very wooded forests here in Vermont three or four times a week in shorts and most often a tank top. I slather on picaridin before I even leave the house and have yet to get a single mosquito bite this year. That stuff is amazing
We generally use the Sawyer brand (not for any particular reason, it’s just the first one we tried and it’s worked great). They have a lotion and a spray, both work really well and don’t leave you with a gross/sticky feeling after a couple minutes. The best endorsement I can give is we went on a hike up the hill near us, my wife and kids used the Sawyer stuff and I thought I didn’t need it so I used just the natural repellent oil spray…they had zero ticks between the 4 of them, I found 5 crawling up my legs at various points.
Bonus points, it also does a good job with mosquitoes and other annoying flying bugs.
https://www.sawyer.com/products/picaridin-insect-repellent
Depends just how thrusty he was being. Hiking normally sans clothes - fine. Hiking with your hands on your hips and point at all passersby with your weird old man penis - that's a paddling (unless he's into that...)
Indecent exposure is still a thing in Vermont, and the specific circumstances of nudity make a difference. For example, even with legal nudity in Vermont, you can't go walk in front of a school building buck naked without getting yourself on the sex offenders list. Depending on the circumstances the same is probably true in most public settings where there's a reasonable expectation that other people will be sharing the space.
Nope. It isn't. There's no such crime as indecent exposure in Vermont. Nowhere in the statute books. And no prohibition on being nude in a proximity to a school or anything like that.
You might be thinking about Lewd and Lascivious Conduct which requires some non-consensual sexual act that is intended to inspire lewd thoughts. That's what'll get you if you, for example, jump out of the bushes and masturbate at people on the bike path (real case). If you just walk down the bike path without doing anything sexual, just naked, you're OK.
All Vermont laws are located on the legislature's website - nice and organized. People should look through them - there's a big gulf between what the law is and what people on Reddit think the law is.
> Yeah what is the definition of lewd and lascivious?
Walking naked - not lewd or lascivious.
Walking nude while waving a 18" neon pink dildo in a state of obvious arousal -- both lewd and lascivious.
Sure, agreed on that. But OP said kids hypothetically maybe sometimes could have walked there on that trail. I don't consider that to be close to the scenario you laid out.
I don't know the trail, nor the setting it is in. If it's a popular trail, and the time being referenced was during a high-traffic time, it's highly likely kids would have been exposed. If it's a backwoods hike where you'd be surprised to see two other groups during the hike, you're probably safer to go nude, legally speaking.
Either way though, this only makes a difference if the nude hiker left his house naked, which we unfortunately have no way of knowing. My point is just that Vermont's permissive nudity laws aren't so permissive you can get away with anything.
I'm not going to reply to most everything here but the folks I met up with there – a popular part of the Long Trail going up to Duxbury Window and Camel's Hump – said he undressed at the trailhead *after* getting out of his van (someone in our group was familiar with the "before you leave the house" law).
Ignore the people on here acting like there aren't creepazoids out there who absolutely love that this law allows them to wag their pickle at people in a way they can claim is fully legal.
99% of the people I see hiking naked are doing so in good faith, the sort who actively points their hanging brain at people who've asked them to stop aren't it.
Do you often see nude hikers? I've lived here my entire life and have actively hiked for close to 20 years and have never once seen a nude hiker. Some dudes in running shorts who might as well have been nude as their hot (temperature) dong and ballsack hang out the bottom of them, and once a topless woman sunbathing on a summit, but otherwise have never seen one.
I love being naked outside. The thing is I do it when my kids aren't home and where the neighbors won't see me swinging around. I still get to enjoy the outdoors without harassing anyone else. It's like smoking, I wouldn't smoke anything around others or while hiking. Not cause it will hurt anyone but people don't want to be exposed to it......much like random dicks....
Usually a few a year outside of Hike Naked Day, but we're bird/tree nerds who tend towards the remote "forest bathing" sort of trails naturists seem to prefer.
That's the thing, I get that it might be a nice way to experience the outdoors. But dude was making a show aiming his bits on a busy trail on a weekend.
I've come across these creeps before and they ruin it for everyone who just enjoys the wind in their willows and is happy to turn away or retreat to a quieter clearing when other recreators pass by.
There is no "before you leave the house" law. That's an urban legend.
The law is simply that you cannot be lewd. So, no strip tease, no flashing, no public sex, no masturbating in public, etc.
You can 100% absolutely take your clothes off in public.
I’d like to see a case where someone was charged with anything for hiking naked in the woods of Vermont. Until then it is what we would call legal, the rest is you trying to interpret law from the couch.
On your second point there is no matter if the naked hiker got undressed at home or not. If no one saw him getting undressed then there was no law broken. There is no need to clarify how or when you undress and prove it. The government charging you with a crime needs to prove it happened, not the citizen proving they didn’t undress in public.
Just based on what OP described here, there's a case for lewd and lascivious conduct. Purposefully pointing your genitals in the direction of a group of people when you've already been told you're making people uncomfortable may absolutely cross that line, and it wouldn't matter where the naked hiker got undressed. If there were any children in the group that increases penalties significantly.
It seems like you're fighting pretty hard to defend this dude's right to be a creep and gross out the people around him.
Now who is interpreting things from the couch?
Lol once again, my entire point here is to say that there are circumstances, perhaps including the ones OP described, where VT's permissive nudity laws are not enough for someone to go around naked based on specifics. I have never claimed to know whether this specific situation would satisfy that criteria, only outlined the ways in which this situation COULD or MAY satisfy it.
It's fine that you want to find a way for it to be okay to be naked in public where other people are going to be exposed to it, but your initial claim was that by living in a state which allows some amount of public nudity, OP was consenting to seeing public nudity everywhere they go. That's simply not true.
Exactly. There's a big difference between being naked in public and thus creating the possibility of others incidentally witnessing your genitals and actively drawing attention to them.
As an analogy: Coughing is perfectly acceptable and wouldn't ordinarily invite any sort of legal consequences or violate established social norms. Intentionally coughing *on* someone is not and could well expose you (pun very much intended) to assault charges.
You have the right to vote, run for office, express concerns to office holders. And you are here by choice, as slavery was outlawed well before you were born. Anyone can move, it is not an impossibility.
You don't live in reality do you? I REALLY have to explain to you that not all lives in America are equal and some of us really don't have a choice?
Are you this dense and sheltered?
Some of you people are so weird. What's wrong with a naked human body? Omg a kid might see?!
If I was I hiking with my kid and stumbled across this person, the conversation would go like this:
"hey Daddy why is that person naked?"
"because they wanted to hike naked."
"oh, ok. look at this cool rock!"
*puts rock in my pocket*
It is a weird “Think of the Children!!!” aspect right? Reminds me of the freaks who hate on drag- “hoW WILL I exPLAIN THIS to MY KIds??” It’s the adults who need the hand-holding. Kids understand make-believe cosplay and wanting to be naked.
Honestly, if you see a naked hiker and it makes you uncomfortable why not just keep walking? Pure nakedness should not be an issue for people imo. It actually is only weird if you make it weird by focusing on it.
With that being said, creepy behavior + nakedness is not cool so I cannot comment on that having not been there myself.
To the people who narrow cast obnoxious open letters on social media to people who will never see them:
Please shut the fuck up until you learn how to communicate with other humans.
Because it's totally safe for women to confront men who appear to be mentally ill, while alone on the trail.
Gotcha.
So...about that whole STFU thing......
"please shut the fuck up until you learn how to communicate with others"
I read that to mean they should quit this type of posting until they are ready to actually communicate with the person in question.
maybe I (& anyone else) read that wrong but it sure seems to be referring to communicating in ways other than this, sooo....
I mean to address the content you're writing to the people you're actually communicating to (the general public) to tell us about a problem instead of posting an angry letter that sounds like you're scolding every reader even though the person you're mad at will never read it. It's such a dumb, tired tactic by people who don't actually want to fix the issue, but they want to make it everyone else's problem by venting their anger at total strangers uninvolved in the interaction.
And yes, in some circumstances the social media open letter trope is a replacement for actually addressing the problem in person, but whether that's feasible is situationally dependant.
I gotta say I think OP's post is pretty justified. The only reason someone really has to do something like this is to get their jollys by making other people feel uncomfortable. It's obnoxious, and it's unnecessary. The idea that they should be "communicating" with this person is absurd as these type of people just want to be confronted so they can get into an argument about "their rights". Everyone had a right to hike in peace without being subjected to old man dong. There are plenty of private places to go be naked and not make others feel uncomfortable.
The criticism is of their communication style, not their concern. It's just downright weird and rude to address a rant like this to a specific "you" when 100% of the people actually reading this are not the ones committing the action.
If the post isn't addressed to me, why would I care to read it? If someone wants others to empathize or be aware of the problem, then they should talk directly to the general public and tell us about the issue like a normal human being would.
Were you the one hanging dong? If not, why would you be offended by the phrasing of saying "you" vs just people in general? Your over the top response telling them to "fuck off" just seems unwarranted
OP is the teacher saying because Billy is painting graffiti in the hallway, all of us must be punished. What praytell could any of us do about this legal behavior?
And they’re almost 99.99% concerning people who would never be influenced by reading words and being empathetic and considering the impact of their behavior. So why bother posting?
It's reasonable to talk about weird behavior. I don't agree with OP's issues but it's fair to discuss as long as you aren't calling on people to harm him.
Found the Karen. The world is not here to meet your expectations. It's legal here and should be everywhere, am I into it? nope but that doesn't give me the right to take it from people who are, or even bitch about it.
PS as soon as I hear a hypothetical "what about the children?" I am VERY leery of everything that follows.
Thank you for pointing out that voice to text chose the wrong word by using Leary instead of leery. It was quite kind and thoughtful of you and contributed immensely to the conversation. Have a great day!
Wasn't there a post recently asking where to hike naked? Grab yer pitchforks fam we're going on a witch hunt
(this comment is a joke - disclaimer because I respect the mods here/they haven't gotten sick of my shit yet unlike the Burlington mods)
Idc if people want to be nude but my experience most nudists do it because its freeing and they dont act any different. But getting nude just to thrust it in peoples faces seems more a statement and is kinda disrespectful. More, "hey look at my junk", than "let's act completely normal even though I'm nude".
Crazy that people in this thread think that this behavior is okay. It’s not normal to walk naked on a hiking trail around other people and children - what kind of psyche do you think this person has to do that? Likely not a good one
I think a lot in this thread boils down to different interpretations of what it means to "turn to point your weird, old penis" at passersby. Did he, like, wave his dick at people or did the guy simply turn to face them as one might ordinarily do? Big difference, there.
I’m very pro body and think most people are uptight. I’ve actually spent time on nude beach a few times. It’s kinda freeing and nice. No big deal.
The thing is that, like everything else, there are people who are ideological about it and want to push their agenda on others.
It’s not about them enjoying being naked. It’s about them “owning” people who they assume disagree with them by actively trying to make them uncomfortable.
I bet the guys hanging out at the gas station naked would never hang out at the gas station under any other circumstances. They’re emotional adolescents trying to get off on how much more progressive they are than others.
To be perfectly clear: I am not saying that anyone/everyone who hikes, rides a bike, goes to a park or beach naked is in anyway doing this to force their agenda.
But the hiker guy waging his dick at the pearl clutchers is trying to get a rise out of people. It would have been much better to just say “it’s naked hiking day!” and go about his business.
When the OP say’s “wagging his dick” I suspect he’s walking and that’s the wagging vs the more explicit intentional wagging
Honestly I don’t see why anyone cares if it’s the former
Because society has a norm of being clothed around kids and strangers it makes a lot people uncomfortable.
The naked guy has no legal obligation to not make strangers and kids uncomfortable but it's nice to be thoughtful of others.
I remember the naked Jamaican that used to show up at red rocks cliffs when folks were around, mostly young teenagers and he never had any issues hanging brain in front of us all.
Used to be a naked woodsman type that would hang at Pikes falls in Jamaica. Lot of pearl clutching from tourists but he was harmless. Just an old hermit/hippie type. Not sure if he's still around.
You made you uncomfortable. Not the hiker. Do us all a favor and accept responsibility for yourself, and the insecurities you are imposing on your offspring.
Tales of the thrusty Argonian bard.
Congratulations on this rare sighting. A Nipples Cage in its natural habitat. Not nearly as rare as the Catamount, or the Bigfoot that we shamed into leaving the state.
Sounds like you're being pretty judgmental. The guy has every right to hike naked if he wants. Why don't you go hike somewhere else if you don't like it
A nude hiker that doesn’t cover themselves when passing by non-nudist hikers is being inconsiderate. I’m sorry you had that experience. I hope it doesn’t give you a bad impression of the next nude hiker you see. Hopefully they’ll be polite enough to put their hat over their private parts for you.
It is technically legal to be nude in Vermont on the condition that you have to leave your house that way. You cannot undress in public, that is illegal.
...But, the ticks...
Easier to see 'em with no clothes
Easier for them to sneak into your prison wallet...
And the biting flies??? jeez, I didn't even want to go outside fully clothed
I'd rather deal with the ticks than the Weird Old Penis man.
ticks on dicks!
I remember reading an old Vermont news article with locals complaining about a few naked people loitering in front of a gas station, making people feel uncomfortable. And the sheriff nonchalantly says, well the upcoming cold weather will solve that problem by itself.
Like a button on a fur coat
More of a ding then a dong
That's two bellybutton cold
🤢
To Nude Boi, enjoy the deer flies!
Nude boi sounds like a sick name for an emo band
Come on nude boi boi is you big enough
Rhianna has entered the chat
Lol he was very thrusty about it..😂
This could determine if he was committing a crime. Nakedness is not illegal but behaving lewdly (thrusting) could be construed as a crime. Either way, the guy is a creep.
Not to mention OP said the dude undressed at his vehicle which, by Vt definition classifies it as a crime cause he left his place dressed and then became naked
This is folklore. There's no law against undressing in public, if you do it discreetly. Hiking nude is legal, but deliberately flashing people — like this guy did — falls under the category of ”lewd and lascivious behavior", and that's definitely not allowed.
Can we just make a distinction between the nudity and the behavior accompanying it? If someone is "thrusty" it's problematic no matter if they are clothed or un. And someone's right to be nude should not depend on age, gender, or attractiveness. It's disconcerting the number of comments that are about the desirability of whether people would "want" to see you naked. If people want to sexualize plain nudity, that's their own issue. But if you think nudity should be allowed, it should be allowed for all body types
Skinny dipping, no problem. Running around shoving one's junk at people is a different matter. Though if it's a male, a little tap in the right place should take care of things.
‘Assault someone hurting nobody’ isn’t the moral stance you think it is.
"Assault" does not necessarily involve physical harm. A naked guy who walks up and waves his dick in my (or my kid's) face is committing assault. If Naked Guy walks up and shakes hands, he is doing nothing wrong. And whatever the law says, if he wants to be lewd at a safe distance I am OK with that. His business.
Assault does involve contact or fear of contact though. Someone can wave whatever body part they want, if there's no reasonable chance of them touch you it's not assault.
Not all harm is physical.
Vermont has always had an appreciation of the natural and a more old school European vibe than other states. I just wonder if all these pearl clutchers really think that children across much of Europe, Africa, many indigenous tribes, and some parts of South America are all being abused by simply witnessing nakedness. Yes, we live in a country that was founded with heavy puritanical Christian views, but seeing nude bodies isn't child abuse. I assume all the shocked people were too young to get National Geographic in the '80s...
Did that happen today or on 6/21, aka Hike Naked Day?
There's a designated day for it?
Exactly my thought.
I was gonna say, I bet it was naked hike day.
It’s never anybody you’d like to see naked
It’s not meant to be sexual so why’s it matter?
[удалено]
“anybody you’d **LIKE TO SEE** naked” why are you being purposefully obtuse? it’s pretty obviously that their comment was about sexual attraction
It’s not the person, it’s the activity. Didn’t you watch Seinfeld?
Agreed with what you're saying, but *do* find it funny that this is posted by someone who named themselves after Coochie :P
Hahaha it's also a [favorite mountain](https://www.adirondack.net/business/couchsachraga-peak-11124/) of mine—that said, people do call it cooch, so your point stands.
You notice it's only men who do this. it's a fucking power play entitlement issue. They know they can walk around with their gross old snake hanging down, shocking people. if they REALLY enjoyed naked hiking, there's TONS of woods without a single person around. they're doing it on purpose. Gross.
Nah just saw a woman take all of her clothes off in a high school parking lot and hang them on her car to dry. My kids were busy playing soccer so luckily they didn’t notice.
The act of disrobing in public is actually illegal in VT. You can show up naked, that’s perfectly legal, but undressing in front of others is not.
Nope, read the statutes. Public disrobing *per se" is fine. It's lewd behavior that's illegal. If you're undressing to go swimming, no problem. If you're undressing with the deliberate intention of having people see you undress, that's not ok.
But disrobing at a high school? That sounds like it should be illegal since it's just wrong imo. Wanna be naked sure whatever but getting naked at a school is just no for me
I think it’s fair to say it is rarely a person one would LIKE to see naked in the woods
Or anywhere.
That's not true at all? I'd say women are a lot more likely to expose more skin, and a lot less likely to get scrutinized for it! Your discomfort with male nudity is not anyone else's issue.
Yup, it's always men and they get off on forcing their nudity on others. Fucking perverts. There is plenty of off trail woods to be naked in, but it's not about being a naturist it's all about exposing themselves to (potentially) women and children.
Or they just like being naked.
They can be naked in fucking nudist designated areas - women can't even breastfeed without a public fiasco or creep leering at their tit.
Women should also be allowed to breastfeed in public, I’m not arguing that they shouldn’t.
There’s a dude that runs the trails behind the Montpelier pool fully nude all summer too, kinda odd but it’s not hurting anyone and it’s totally legal to do so
I would think it wood be hurting HIM!🤣
There are some parts you definitely don't to get sunburned.
It would hurt his wood, or do you want to stick with that?
https://preview.redd.it/rf4p1z0tpx8d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0b128c745cea3b4e253816836779d839a1d502d4
He's also not a young guy... I've run past him quite a few times. He does seem to always have a hand towel, but he clearly does not have a care in the world about nudity on a very popular trail that is within a stone's throw of the local pool. My kids' old preschool is also in that area, and they regularly hiked on the North Branch trails where he runs. I never heard about them bumping into him, or maybe he was considerate enough to use the little towel when he came across groups of preschoolers?
Adding my 2 cents for posterior er.. posterity. Me and my friends have come across a naked hiker (probably the same guy) a few times and I didn't like the vibe. I'm not anti-nudity at all, but it felt deliberately aggressive. He struck up a lengthy conversation rather than the usual hiker's nod. I'm familiar with the german FKK laws (free body culture) and I'm down with those, but here there is a feeling of wrong context and/or lack of consent (or lack thereof) that made the whole thing feel icky. It really feels like he does it for the thrill of seeing people and not a genuine interest in being naked in nature, which of course you could do Vermont without being seen.
Alrighty. I happen to love swimming when naked because I absolutely detest bathing suits. It’s nice to swim and sunbathe in the buff and I gravitate exclusively toward those spots. I cannot at all understand the allure of hiking or biking or whatever all else while naked. Clothes serve a protective purpose for the body against bugs, scrapes, etc. PLUS the physics of various body parts just flopping around everywhere… no thank you. All of this said, I think some people are obsessively weird about being naked, and some people are obsessively prudish about seeing naked bodies. Like, can’t we just all be cool?
The laws in Vermont make this legal. You shouldn't be surprised that people go out and do this. If you don't want your kids to look at someone's penis, then voice your discomfort with the law. Don't voice your discomfort on people whose actions are legally protected. Obviously, if he is pointing or wagging his penis at children, or being sexual about it to anyone, then that would not be legally protected.
It's ok to critique legal behavior. It's legal to piss in the sink and I think it's reasonable to voice discomfort with someone doing that.
> It's ok to critique legal behavior. It's legal to piss in the sink and I think it's reasonable to voice discomfort with someone doing that. correct. that's a 1a thing right there.
> Don't voice your discomfort on people whose actions are legally protected. > > Nah. Behavior can be legal but still be inappropriate. Violating personal space, staring at people, talking loudly about topics that make people uncomfortable, giving lots of attention to children you don't know, commenting on other people's bodies ... it's all legal. But if someone's doing it, they should be called out. People have a right to behave like assholes. And other people have a right to tell them they're being assholes.
There are a lot of things that are legal that are wrong. There are things that are illegal that are actually OK. It’s been like that throughout history. Whether something is legal or not is only part of the moral framework we use, Laser-Nipples Members of society hold others accountable first
Yeah, but the vast majority of things that are legal, but still wrong were never illegal in the first place. Vermont took something that is widely recognized as illegal and socially unjustified across the entire country and made it legally protected. That's a pretty big distinction, and I figured that was implied, but apparently I need to explain this.
I think they just never got around to passing laws against some things to start with (nudity among them). My theory has always been that they just didn't want to make the law books so thick that nobody reads them.
Here in Wisconsin mosquitos and black flies would put an end to this discussion. I can't imagine how unpleasant it must be.
I play disc golf on very wooded forests here in Vermont three or four times a week in shorts and most often a tank top. I slather on picaridin before I even leave the house and have yet to get a single mosquito bite this year. That stuff is amazing
Picaridin is truth
Also DEET dissolves some plastics, Spandex in particular. Picaridin does not.
What is this? Is there a brand that is better? Do you use it straight? Save me Obiwan.
We generally use the Sawyer brand (not for any particular reason, it’s just the first one we tried and it’s worked great). They have a lotion and a spray, both work really well and don’t leave you with a gross/sticky feeling after a couple minutes. The best endorsement I can give is we went on a hike up the hill near us, my wife and kids used the Sawyer stuff and I thought I didn’t need it so I used just the natural repellent oil spray…they had zero ticks between the 4 of them, I found 5 crawling up my legs at various points. Bonus points, it also does a good job with mosquitoes and other annoying flying bugs. https://www.sawyer.com/products/picaridin-insect-repellent
Wish I heard this last week. Hiking up north was brutal.
Same here in VT. Bad enough with clothes and DEET.
If you live in a state with nudity being legal, that kinda is consent to see nude people I would think.
Depends just how thrusty he was being. Hiking normally sans clothes - fine. Hiking with your hands on your hips and point at all passersby with your weird old man penis - that's a paddling (unless he's into that...)
In this case the nudity isn't the issue
Yeah that’s exactly what I’m saying
Indecent exposure is still a thing in Vermont, and the specific circumstances of nudity make a difference. For example, even with legal nudity in Vermont, you can't go walk in front of a school building buck naked without getting yourself on the sex offenders list. Depending on the circumstances the same is probably true in most public settings where there's a reasonable expectation that other people will be sharing the space.
Nope. It isn't. There's no such crime as indecent exposure in Vermont. Nowhere in the statute books. And no prohibition on being nude in a proximity to a school or anything like that. You might be thinking about Lewd and Lascivious Conduct which requires some non-consensual sexual act that is intended to inspire lewd thoughts. That's what'll get you if you, for example, jump out of the bushes and masturbate at people on the bike path (real case). If you just walk down the bike path without doing anything sexual, just naked, you're OK. All Vermont laws are located on the legislature's website - nice and organized. People should look through them - there's a big gulf between what the law is and what people on Reddit think the law is.
Yeah what is the definition of lewd and lascivious? I had a neighbor arrested for that with kids and it creeps me out to see him near mine (and his)
> Yeah what is the definition of lewd and lascivious? Walking naked - not lewd or lascivious. Walking nude while waving a 18" neon pink dildo in a state of obvious arousal -- both lewd and lascivious.
This is true
Sure, agreed on that. But OP said kids hypothetically maybe sometimes could have walked there on that trail. I don't consider that to be close to the scenario you laid out.
I don't know the trail, nor the setting it is in. If it's a popular trail, and the time being referenced was during a high-traffic time, it's highly likely kids would have been exposed. If it's a backwoods hike where you'd be surprised to see two other groups during the hike, you're probably safer to go nude, legally speaking. Either way though, this only makes a difference if the nude hiker left his house naked, which we unfortunately have no way of knowing. My point is just that Vermont's permissive nudity laws aren't so permissive you can get away with anything.
I'm not going to reply to most everything here but the folks I met up with there – a popular part of the Long Trail going up to Duxbury Window and Camel's Hump – said he undressed at the trailhead *after* getting out of his van (someone in our group was familiar with the "before you leave the house" law).
Ignore the people on here acting like there aren't creepazoids out there who absolutely love that this law allows them to wag their pickle at people in a way they can claim is fully legal. 99% of the people I see hiking naked are doing so in good faith, the sort who actively points their hanging brain at people who've asked them to stop aren't it.
Do you often see nude hikers? I've lived here my entire life and have actively hiked for close to 20 years and have never once seen a nude hiker. Some dudes in running shorts who might as well have been nude as their hot (temperature) dong and ballsack hang out the bottom of them, and once a topless woman sunbathing on a summit, but otherwise have never seen one.
I love being naked outside. The thing is I do it when my kids aren't home and where the neighbors won't see me swinging around. I still get to enjoy the outdoors without harassing anyone else. It's like smoking, I wouldn't smoke anything around others or while hiking. Not cause it will hurt anyone but people don't want to be exposed to it......much like random dicks....
Usually a few a year outside of Hike Naked Day, but we're bird/tree nerds who tend towards the remote "forest bathing" sort of trails naturists seem to prefer.
I love that you've seen 100+ naked hikers. This activity must be far more common than I ever realized.
Grew up in the ADKs and was an outdoor rec professional for years, *I've* been the naked hiker a few times myself!
Rock on. No hate here, just impressed at the amount of folks who like to let it all hang out.
That's the thing, I get that it might be a nice way to experience the outdoors. But dude was making a show aiming his bits on a busy trail on a weekend.
I've come across these creeps before and they ruin it for everyone who just enjoys the wind in their willows and is happy to turn away or retreat to a quieter clearing when other recreators pass by.
Have you tried not looking at his junk? His eyes are up here
There is no "before you leave the house" law. That's an urban legend. The law is simply that you cannot be lewd. So, no strip tease, no flashing, no public sex, no masturbating in public, etc. You can 100% absolutely take your clothes off in public.
Not only that but sometimes I think you'd have to, like if you need to pass a clothed area first.
I’d like to see a case where someone was charged with anything for hiking naked in the woods of Vermont. Until then it is what we would call legal, the rest is you trying to interpret law from the couch. On your second point there is no matter if the naked hiker got undressed at home or not. If no one saw him getting undressed then there was no law broken. There is no need to clarify how or when you undress and prove it. The government charging you with a crime needs to prove it happened, not the citizen proving they didn’t undress in public.
Just based on what OP described here, there's a case for lewd and lascivious conduct. Purposefully pointing your genitals in the direction of a group of people when you've already been told you're making people uncomfortable may absolutely cross that line, and it wouldn't matter where the naked hiker got undressed. If there were any children in the group that increases penalties significantly. It seems like you're fighting pretty hard to defend this dude's right to be a creep and gross out the people around him.
Pointing your genitals reads to me the same as turning your body to the person you’re talking to.
Now who is interpreting things from the couch? Lol once again, my entire point here is to say that there are circumstances, perhaps including the ones OP described, where VT's permissive nudity laws are not enough for someone to go around naked based on specifics. I have never claimed to know whether this specific situation would satisfy that criteria, only outlined the ways in which this situation COULD or MAY satisfy it. It's fine that you want to find a way for it to be okay to be naked in public where other people are going to be exposed to it, but your initial claim was that by living in a state which allows some amount of public nudity, OP was consenting to seeing public nudity everywhere they go. That's simply not true.
Exactly. There's a big difference between being naked in public and thus creating the possibility of others incidentally witnessing your genitals and actively drawing attention to them. As an analogy: Coughing is perfectly acceptable and wouldn't ordinarily invite any sort of legal consequences or violate established social norms. Intentionally coughing *on* someone is not and could well expose you (pun very much intended) to assault charges.
We don't all come here by choice, I am very not okay with nudity around me in public and no one asked me when the laws were made they're just there
You have the right to vote, run for office, express concerns to office holders. And you are here by choice, as slavery was outlawed well before you were born. Anyone can move, it is not an impossibility.
You don't live in reality do you? I REALLY have to explain to you that not all lives in America are equal and some of us really don't have a choice? Are you this dense and sheltered?
How can someone not have a choice? What could possibly stop you from moving somewhere else if you cared enough to?
It’s 100% legal to be naked outside in Vermont. Sorry.
I love vermont, but its the season of the dicks
Welcome to Vermont. Public nudity is legal here, dude wasn’t doing anything wrong.
Is the hiker doing anything beyond walking around naked? If not then I don’t understand the problem
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Make a good faith effort to follow [Reddiquette](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette).
Some of you people are so weird. What's wrong with a naked human body? Omg a kid might see?! If I was I hiking with my kid and stumbled across this person, the conversation would go like this: "hey Daddy why is that person naked?" "because they wanted to hike naked." "oh, ok. look at this cool rock!" *puts rock in my pocket*
They can’t help it. They were born wearing clothes.
“There are *dozens* of us! *Dozens*!”
Right? My kids might giggle but otherwise? Meh. Keep on moving.
It is a weird “Think of the Children!!!” aspect right? Reminds me of the freaks who hate on drag- “hoW WILL I exPLAIN THIS to MY KIds??” It’s the adults who need the hand-holding. Kids understand make-believe cosplay and wanting to be naked.
Yeah pretty much one big: 
> puts rock in my pocket in your prison pocket?
Honestly, if you see a naked hiker and it makes you uncomfortable why not just keep walking? Pure nakedness should not be an issue for people imo. It actually is only weird if you make it weird by focusing on it. With that being said, creepy behavior + nakedness is not cool so I cannot comment on that having not been there myself.
Man so much ado about nothing
Won't someone PLEASE think of the CHILDREN!
The majority of us don’t think of children when we’re naked, thankfully.
Is there something inherently wrong with being naked? It sounds like OP is the one sexualizing it
I think so. I'm a never nude. There are dozens of us.
To the people who narrow cast obnoxious open letters on social media to people who will never see them: Please shut the fuck up until you learn how to communicate with other humans.
Because it's totally safe for women to confront men who appear to be mentally ill, while alone on the trail. Gotcha. So...about that whole STFU thing......
When did I say OP should do that?
"please shut the fuck up until you learn how to communicate with others" I read that to mean they should quit this type of posting until they are ready to actually communicate with the person in question. maybe I (& anyone else) read that wrong but it sure seems to be referring to communicating in ways other than this, sooo....
I mean to address the content you're writing to the people you're actually communicating to (the general public) to tell us about a problem instead of posting an angry letter that sounds like you're scolding every reader even though the person you're mad at will never read it. It's such a dumb, tired tactic by people who don't actually want to fix the issue, but they want to make it everyone else's problem by venting their anger at total strangers uninvolved in the interaction. And yes, in some circumstances the social media open letter trope is a replacement for actually addressing the problem in person, but whether that's feasible is situationally dependant.
I gotta say I think OP's post is pretty justified. The only reason someone really has to do something like this is to get their jollys by making other people feel uncomfortable. It's obnoxious, and it's unnecessary. The idea that they should be "communicating" with this person is absurd as these type of people just want to be confronted so they can get into an argument about "their rights". Everyone had a right to hike in peace without being subjected to old man dong. There are plenty of private places to go be naked and not make others feel uncomfortable.
The criticism is of their communication style, not their concern. It's just downright weird and rude to address a rant like this to a specific "you" when 100% of the people actually reading this are not the ones committing the action. If the post isn't addressed to me, why would I care to read it? If someone wants others to empathize or be aware of the problem, then they should talk directly to the general public and tell us about the issue like a normal human being would.
Were you the one hanging dong? If not, why would you be offended by the phrasing of saying "you" vs just people in general? Your over the top response telling them to "fuck off" just seems unwarranted
OP is the teacher saying because Billy is painting graffiti in the hallway, all of us must be punished. What praytell could any of us do about this legal behavior?
And they’re almost 99.99% concerning people who would never be influenced by reading words and being empathetic and considering the impact of their behavior. So why bother posting?
huh?
We get it you also like showing your weird old penis to people who don’t want to see it. Stop whining and put on pants
It's reasonable to talk about weird behavior. I don't agree with OP's issues but it's fair to discuss as long as you aren't calling on people to harm him.
There's a whole coffee table book about skinny dipping in VT. Maybe he's hoping to be featured in the hiking version.
It’s Vermont. Sometimes people are naked.
Ever seen a grown man naked? Lighten up it’s hot out.
Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?
Found the Karen. The world is not here to meet your expectations. It's legal here and should be everywhere, am I into it? nope but that doesn't give me the right to take it from people who are, or even bitch about it. PS as soon as I hear a hypothetical "what about the children?" I am VERY leery of everything that follows.
I am leery of people who can't spell.
Thank you for pointing out that voice to text chose the wrong word by using Leary instead of leery. It was quite kind and thoughtful of you and contributed immensely to the conversation. Have a great day!
Glad I could help.
PENISES ARE EVIL!
it's a symbol of the patriarchy!
Wasn't there a post recently asking where to hike naked? Grab yer pitchforks fam we're going on a witch hunt (this comment is a joke - disclaimer because I respect the mods here/they haven't gotten sick of my shit yet unlike the Burlington mods)
> I respect the mods here/they haven't gotten sick of my shit yet unlike the Burlington mods Pam: "it's the same picture".
You’re a different person here my friend!
Idc if people want to be nude but my experience most nudists do it because its freeing and they dont act any different. But getting nude just to thrust it in peoples faces seems more a statement and is kinda disrespectful. More, "hey look at my junk", than "let's act completely normal even though I'm nude".
Crazy that people in this thread think that this behavior is okay. It’s not normal to walk naked on a hiking trail around other people and children - what kind of psyche do you think this person has to do that? Likely not a good one
Yes. Plenty of hidden places to be naked in Vermont if that’s your thing.
Normal probably not but in Vermont legal unfortunately.
Shaking your dick at someone isn’t protected under Vermont nudity law.
Why are you bring up kids? As long as he’s just hiking and not doing sexual stuff I fail to see the problem
Because OP is projecting.
OP literally said kids hike there 👍
Right… and a naked person just walking about is not obscene.
I think a lot in this thread boils down to different interpretations of what it means to "turn to point your weird, old penis" at passersby. Did he, like, wave his dick at people or did the guy simply turn to face them as one might ordinarily do? Big difference, there.
Im sure he walked past them and OP sexualized the incident when the guy was just trying to enjoy being a hippy while hiking.
Totally possible and that's the way I lean based on the phrasing of the post, but really who the fuck knows?
It could be that way or it could be that the naked guy is a pervert.
Just because kids hike there doesn’t mean they were at the time he was there.
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But legally, he can. Being naked is fine - but sexualizing it isn’t. Legally speaking - it’s about intent.
I’m sorry that your children are being taught that the naked human body is disgusting.
Somebody check this guy's hard drive.
Nudity is not pornograph or obscene. If this guy is just hiking about sans clothes it’s not a problem
I’m very pro body and think most people are uptight. I’ve actually spent time on nude beach a few times. It’s kinda freeing and nice. No big deal. The thing is that, like everything else, there are people who are ideological about it and want to push their agenda on others. It’s not about them enjoying being naked. It’s about them “owning” people who they assume disagree with them by actively trying to make them uncomfortable. I bet the guys hanging out at the gas station naked would never hang out at the gas station under any other circumstances. They’re emotional adolescents trying to get off on how much more progressive they are than others. To be perfectly clear: I am not saying that anyone/everyone who hikes, rides a bike, goes to a park or beach naked is in anyway doing this to force their agenda. But the hiker guy waging his dick at the pearl clutchers is trying to get a rise out of people. It would have been much better to just say “it’s naked hiking day!” and go about his business.
When the OP say’s “wagging his dick” I suspect he’s walking and that’s the wagging vs the more explicit intentional wagging Honestly I don’t see why anyone cares if it’s the former
Because society has a norm of being clothed around kids and strangers it makes a lot people uncomfortable. The naked guy has no legal obligation to not make strangers and kids uncomfortable but it's nice to be thoughtful of others.
Was he just walking by until people made a big deal?
I remember the naked Jamaican that used to show up at red rocks cliffs when folks were around, mostly young teenagers and he never had any issues hanging brain in front of us all.
If it's nice out, leave it out.
Used to be a naked woodsman type that would hang at Pikes falls in Jamaica. Lot of pearl clutching from tourists but he was harmless. Just an old hermit/hippie type. Not sure if he's still around.
I remember seeing that guy about 10 years ago as a teen! He showed everyone how to slide down the falls butt naked.
That's the guy...
Thrusty about it OR you couldn't stop looking at his penis and are not used to the sight of a penis that wobbles while a male walks.
Clutch those pearls OP
You made you uncomfortable. Not the hiker. Do us all a favor and accept responsibility for yourself, and the insecurities you are imposing on your offspring.
Sounds like a good way to get knocked out if your thrusting at someone's kids. Being naked is one thing. Being a creep about it is another.
Tales of the thrusty Argonian bard. Congratulations on this rare sighting. A Nipples Cage in its natural habitat. Not nearly as rare as the Catamount, or the Bigfoot that we shamed into leaving the state.
Wait, people wander around naked in VT?
You have to leave a building naked. Not get naked in your car and then hike a trail.. Hey DUDE … No one wants to see your wanker..
Sounds like you're being pretty judgmental. The guy has every right to hike naked if he wants. Why don't you go hike somewhere else if you don't like it
A nude hiker that doesn’t cover themselves when passing by non-nudist hikers is being inconsiderate. I’m sorry you had that experience. I hope it doesn’t give you a bad impression of the next nude hiker you see. Hopefully they’ll be polite enough to put their hat over their private parts for you.
It is technically legal to be nude in Vermont on the condition that you have to leave your house that way. You cannot undress in public, that is illegal.
It’s not illegal if you leave your house naked, but if he undressed at his car before hitting the trail, that’s something entirely different.
Is it not illegal to run around nude in public in Vermont?
No, Vermont doesn't have a law prohibiting public nudity.
Oh, so he’s doing absolutely nothing wrong then
Not unless he is touching himself or making lewd gestures at people.
at least wear a speedo!