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Syrox059

South Vietnam


y-nkh

Specifically the cold war era state that was supported by the US against the Marxist-Lenininst north, before losing the war to them. The reason why it is probably used here is because the Vietnamese diaspora in the west generally dislike the current government and its symbols, and have often called to be represented by this flag instead.


FragrantGold5271

May i ask what the current government is doing that people don’t like?


hungaryhasnodignity

Many Vietnamese are are the descendants of “the boat people.” Google that to understand an inkling of why the Vietnamese flag is so controversial in the Vietnamese diaspora.


JJIlg

It's a socialist dictatorship so people don't want to use their symbols and prefer using those of a military dictatorship instead.


SemKors

Wasn't south Vietnam a dictatorship too?


JJIlg

That's what my comment is about. North Vietnam is a socialist dictatorship and south vietnam was a military dictatorship for large parts of it's history. I was trying to say that using south Vietnamnese instead of north Vietnamnese symobls really doesn't make a difference because both are/were oppressive authoritarian dictatorships with the only main difference being their economic ideology and who supported them.


Shepher27

The reason though, that many Vietnamese Americans use the South Vietnam flag is because most are political exiles who fled the Communist victory in the 70s


ReadinII

The boat people crisis started a couple years after the Communist victory. It seems people weren’t fleeing the victory, they are fleeing the way the new government was acting.


pureteddybear2008

Tbf Vietnam is a pretty cool place today


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SemKors

I'm not arguing. Just trying to understand.


JJIlg

I wasn't trying argue either. I was just using your comment as an opportunity to add some more context to what I previously commented.


Jamzez1234

>It was also the same thing for North and South Korea for a while.


Lol_lukasn

fax, the proxy wars of the cold war wasn't about democracy vs capitalism it was about dictator that wanted to be rich vs dictator that also wanted to be rich but pretended he believed in workers power


KaiserKelp

Well one invaded the other


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SilanggubanRedditor

There's really no contradiction there /s


Impossible-Web740

It doesn't have the best track record when it comes to human rights, but that's not as relevant to why the flag of South Vietnam is used as the fact that much of the Vietnamese diaspora in the west is descended from South Vietnamese citizens who fled after the North's victory.


y-nkh

Well, it's a dictatorship for a start. And in general being a fan of Marxist-Leninist states is not exactly popular in the west, especially since many Vietnamese in the US arrived to the country fleeing that exact government.


dersaspyoverher

as if south vietnam was a holy benevolent democracy


[deleted]

In practice it wasn’t much better but that hardly matters to the people who fled that country to escape the communist regime in particular.


Imperium_Dragon

Unfortunately there’s people out there that throw all nuance out and claim North Vietnam was a benevolent state. Both north and south were shitty and propped up by international powers, but the north was able to organize itself better in the long run while the south kept couping itself.


thefumingo

I mean, this is true for Cuba and Cuban-Americans as well. Batista was a horrible dictator, but the ones that fled ran away from Castro


y-nkh

Yeah but dictatorships are okay when you're defending Capitalism from the godless commies /s


PaulAspie

A lot of the Vietnamese diaspora in the USA have family who were beaten, unjustly imprisoned, etc. by the current government in power back in the day, and that's why they left Vietnam.


Aaeaeama

A lot of the Vietnamese in Vietnam have family who were beaten, unjustly imprisoned, etc. by the American-backed government in power back in the day, and that's why they stayed to fight for Vietnam.


thefumingo

And much of the Vietnamese diaspora is starting to reconnect with Vietnam now (the opposite of Cuba)


Aaeaeama

Do you think the younger Cuban diaspora is drifting away from Cuban culture? In my experience Cuban-Americans under 30 or so are markedly less "anti-communist" and much less religious than their parents and grandparents. In general younger Cuban-Americans have always struck me as more willing to travel back to Cuba and reconnect with cousins and stuff, whereas their parents and grandparents refuse to even recognize the nation on principal.


thefumingo

To a point, yes, but Cuban-Americans' support for the GOP and the embargo has grown in the Trump era (though this is usually notably only polled in Florida: from what I remember, though I can't find the stats on it currently, NY/NJ Cubans vote Democratic, which means the diaspora isn't as uniform as believed). This is starting [to change](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/cuban-americans-disapprove-biden-issues-new-arrivals-poll-finds-rcna53829) but polling is still somewhat mixed. On the other hand, Vietnamese-Americans, despite voting GOP (though this may be more true in enclaves), are often comfortable with [going back to the homeland](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Young-Vietnamese-Americans-returning-to-a-new-land-of-opportunity) and even the older generation [are happier to support the home country.](https://www.cntraveler.com/story/why-im-moving-to-the-country-my-parents-fled-decades-ago) Vietnam-US relations have also become [very friendly](https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/05/09/united-states-vietnam-relations-quiet-victory-trade-war-legacies/) to the point that the two are nearly allies, though not quite to the level of Japan or Europe.


MrCrix

Years ago I used to work at a place that had half of a floor for their offices. The remaining offices were rented out by people who worked alone or in small groups of two or three. One of the guys who worked there was a Chinese guy, who lived in Malaysia, but before that when he was younger he moved to Vietnam with his family. The absolute horror stories about the Vietnam war from when he was a kid would shock and disturb you. He tried to escape on a boat and a day into their trip the boat broke down and drifted back to shore and him and about 100 people were captured by the North Vietnamese. They put them into these cage that were only 4' tall with wet dirt floors and like 30 people in these cages that were about the size of an SUV in floor space. So everyone was crammed in there like sardines. They starved them with only a handful of food a day, so they ate whatever they could. Rats, worms, bugs, snakes, random plants etc. Well one guy was starving and he found a lighter and a metal bowl. He put water in it and brewed some tea from a plant he found. He was desperate. The guy I knew told him not to drink it because nobody there knew what the plant was, but this guy was starving and didn't care. He brewed the tea in the middle of the night to not get in trouble and within 10 minutes he was writing in pain. He started to vomit and have horrible diarrhea. He was very vocal about what was happening as he couldn't control it. The other prisoners asked him to shut up or they'd get in trouble, but he couldn't stop. He was covering himself and other prisoners with his mess. It was a horrific scene. With all the commotion guards came to the cage and started to yell at the men. They explained what was going on, but the guards didn't care. They told them to shut up. The man was out of it. Poisoned and violently ill. What did the guards do to solve this problem? Did they get the man out of there? Did they start beating him and the others? Nope. They just randomly opened fire into the cage with all the men inside. More than half of them were killed that night and only the guy I knew and a few others were not killed or injured. Imagine having to spend the rest of the night in a room with injured and dead men, laying on top of you. Blood, body parts and human waste everywhere. You can't even stand up because the cage was so short. He said whenever he sees the Vietnam flag he gets sick to his stomach because that flag is of the North. He also said there was a flag that looked the same but half was blue, but he has never seen it in Canada. He hates that flag. He knows what it represents and the people who died under it. This is why people do not want to be represented by that flag. Especially those who escaped it.


Firlotgirding

Reeducation camps was the method used 20 years ago. I don’t know currently.


[deleted]

Definitely still a thing in Laos and Vietnam. Secret police as well. It’s a legitimate thing to not talk about certain politics in public, the person at the next table could very well be a party member or secret police. If you’re an obvious foreigner there’s a 100% chance the police know exactly where you are at all times.


bluntpencil2001

Lived here for 8 years, the cops have better things to do than follow me around. Things like 'sitting around smoking and drinking tea'. People openly talk about all sorts s all the time.


speredzn

You're reply gonna be ignored as it doesn't fit people's indoctrinated "SeCrEt CoMmiE PoLiCe eVeRyWhErE" perspective lol


Soundwave10000

[Here’s a start](https://freedomhouse.org/country/vietnam/freedom-world/2021)


[deleted]

Probably not so much what they're currently doing as that they were the winning side in a bloody civil war and the diaspora are largely from the losing side.


onlineLefty

Expatriated Vietnamese, like the Florida Cubans, are sore losers


AnonymousLlama1776

The Vietnamese diaspora often uses the old South Vietnamese flag


jaffar97

Only the old diaspora who fled to the west from south Vietnam after the north took control.


thefumingo

Vietnamese immigration picked up again after the 1980s, as well as Vietnam - US relations (especially close now thanks to China).


BowBeforeBroccoli

man i love when us pacific islanders are excluded almost completely for asian american and pacific islander month it really makes me feel noticed


hungaryhasnodignity

Many Asians a I know find it very offensive to be lumped into such a broad category and then have their heritage be turned into a yearly game of trivial pursuit. AAPI is as nearly offensive to them as Latinix is to Hispanics.


BowBeforeBroccoli

Honestly we as Pacific Islanders do too. I’d rather we get our own separate months rather than be lumped together and diminishing our uniqueness. It feels like AAPI as a term just means “eastern people” with no regard to the culture or people in the region.


[deleted]

A better analogy would be how I, a Brazilian, always get lumped in with Spaniards, Argentines, Venezuelans, etc. because people don't know what the difference is between Latino and Hispanic Latino includes all Romance-speaking countries and territories. Hispanic includes only the Spanish-speaking countries and territories


ErwinC0215

Wouldn't this technically make Romania and Moldova Latino? After all they speak a romance language too.


[deleted]

I'm talking about Latin America here Though Hispanic also applies to countries outside of Latin America (Spain, Equatorial Guinea, and the Philippines) EDIT: Not Andorra


twoScottishClans

philippines is debatable, but both sides have reasonable arguments.


ErwinC0215

Make sense, thanks.


[deleted]

Just occurred to me that you could technically include Quebec as part of Latin America lmao


Archived_Archosaur

Yo yo don't include us there. Very few Filipinos speak Spanish, and those who speak proper Spanish are even fewer, since most Filipinos who do speak Spanish speak a creole.


nahuelkevin

depends on who you ask, they might be latins… but not latino(americano)s


KlausTeachermann

>AAPI is as nearly offensive to them as Latinix is to Hispanics. Oh goodness how I wish more folk knew about this in relation to Latinx. What a travesty.


PaldinWald

The suffering Olympics is just pathetic and offensive to all minorities. It makes people continue to think of minorities as an unintegratable part of society and only really panders to white people who use it as a way to feel superior to other people, while doing nothing to actually give a voice to the minority groups in the US/UK


mxntxl_illnxss375

that’s a really good analogy -hispanic person


[deleted]

I knew a guy from Guam who liked to say he was Native American. He’s a Native, from American land.


Affentitten

I think the point with this pic though is that it shows the countries of origin of kids who are actually at the school.


Hokuopio

I especially love it on AAPI panels when the entire PI representation consists of a single Filipino. We love our Pinoy cousins, but the Pasifika erasure is reaaaalllll


Shepher27

The flags were probably picked by the people in this specific group and represent their heritage.


gpm21

At least Armenians are welcome!


DatWoodyFan

The flag of South Vietnam.


Buffyoh

Flag of the former Republic of (South) Vietnam.


[deleted]

Flag used by the South Vietnamese government. My guess is that the Vietnamese student(s) don't recognise the current communist government of Vietnam. It's possible that their parents or grandparents moved to America before the end of the war and they want to recognise their nationality without recognising the Vietnamese government.


ParamedicCareful3840

It’s the flag of South Vietnam. It’s not the flag of the present country, South Vietnam hasn’t existed in nearly 50 years, so it’s a political statement


Mtso2021

I think it is because many Southern Vietnamese fled to US and still use the flag to represent their culture


[deleted]

Much as it is claimed that the Confederate flag is used to represent culture. In reality: sore losers.


ParamedicCareful3840

Not disagreeing, but it’s still not the flag of the present country and hasn’t been for 5 decades.


[deleted]

It’s analogous to Americans who still wave the Confederate flag. They can’t accept that the civil war is over and their side lost.


cracksilog

I'm from San Jose, home of the largest Vietnamese American community in the US. Some cities in the suburbs here and SJ (I believe) have adopted this flag, the South Vietnamese flag, as the only recognized flag among Vietnamese Americans living here. There is zero mention of North Vietnam and *zero* recognition of the current Vietnamese flag. All South Vietnam flags. It's because the current Vietnamese government (since the end of the Vietnam War, which started the diaspora) is communist. Communist is a dirty, dirty word among Vietnamese people. It's used as an insult. We've had politicians who have been forced to apologize to Vietnamese candidates for even suggesting they were communist. Communism and socialism, for Vietnamese Americans who have immigrated to the US, are associated with the war and the destruction of their livelihoods.


HKBFG

"communist" is only a dirty word among vietnameses people who fled the country because they were rightists. vietnamese people in vietnam have gone through no such propaganda.


binhan123ad

Yike, it is really that bad over there ?


Macquarrie1999

200,000 to 400,000 people died while trying to flee Vietnam after the Vietnam War.


binhan123ad

Jesus.


twomillioniq

As a lot of people in the comments have already stated it's the flag of US-backed South Vietnam, a key belligerent in the Vietnam war and was dissolved after they were defeated in the Vietnam war.


seanieh966

That’s the pre 1975 flag for the now long defunct Republic of Vietnam, aka South Vietnam.


Partydude19

The Republic Of Vietnam or more commonly known as South Vietnam. The U.S. backed state that was absorbed by the Soviet backed North Vietnam at the end of the Vietnam war.


TamLover

I live in Orange County California home to a large diaspora community from Vietnam. I remember a small riot broke out the first time a business used the current flag of Vietnam. I know they were vandalized and I believe the ended up closing shop. Today it doesn't cause a riot but it does make older Vietnamese people grumble, the middle aged and young don't mind as much. Kind of similar to how when I was young we had a large Persian community and today some will call themselves Iranian (maybe 25%), when I was young that could start a fight.


anhkhoaO410

they're simply stuck in the old past


super_stelIar

The Vietnamese that fled after the war still use this flag. In Anaheim, CA, this flag is everywhere. There are communities there, where every house is Vietnamese. A lot of them don't even speak English and they've lived there for their entire life.


super_stelIar

These communities were made by the US government. They just dumped refugees in random cities.


[deleted]

As opposed to what, dumping them in very specific cities?


Shepher27

Should they have scattered them randomly across the country? What alternative are you suggesting?


[deleted]

They rescued them from certain death in their homeland.


DeesiusNutsius

SOUTH FRICCING VIETNAM


CommunistThermite

The French puppet state one (wtf cringe)


RoCCrusader94EU

Stfu commie, who let you use the Internet?


CommunistThermite

Your to-do list: -Blow 100 American dicks -Repeat


RoCCrusader94EU

Says commie blowing Lenin’s syphilis dick Lol


schweinhund89

Loser flag


drunkenstyle

It says Asian and Pacific Islander, and there is not one country from the pacific islands? Philippines, Taiwan, Japan don't count


[deleted]

Typical diaspora 🗿


Animal_Animations_1

Old flag & south Vietnam flag, changed after the war


Cleverism0

Old south viet flag


akyriacou92

It's the flag of South Vietnam (officially the Republic of Vietnam). A lot of Vietnamese fled as refugees after the end of the Vietnam War because they didn't want to be under communist rule, so Vietnamese diaspora largely still use the flag of the defeated South Vietnam and don't identify with the flag of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam (the red flag with the single yellow star)


[deleted]

South Vietnamese flag used in the Vietnam War


carterhatesyou

That was the flag of Vietnam in the past, and the flag of South Vietnam during the Vietnam War


Confident-Ad202

Capitalist vietnam during vietnam war, also called south vietnam.


Wood_On_Fire

A flag that reminds us that the capital city Ho Chi Minh was once called Saigon


binhan123ad

Still called Saigon but under province name and the City is called Ho Chi Minh. Also, it is not captial, Ha Noi is the one.


Splarnst

TP.HCM isn’t in a province. It’s a special muncipality. So what exactly are you saying is still officially called Saigon?


binhan123ad

We still call it Saigon, in full Vietnamese: "Tỉnh Sài Gòn." not "Thành phố Sài Gòn". Alternatively call it Ho Chi Minh but not "Tỉnh Hồ Chí Minh" but rather "Thành Phố Hồ Chí Minh". We didn't change the Saigon, we just call it as a general term for the province HCM city is in. Quite hard to explain in English but that's the best I can do. "Tỉnh" here mean province, and we often using the term back and fort whenever we mentioning Saigon or HCM.


Splarnst

>we just call it as a general term for the province HCM city is in Again, HCM City is **not** *in* a province. It's a special centrally governed municipality (*thành phố trực thuộc trung ương*) along with Hà Nội, Cần Thơ, Đà Nẵng, and Hải Phòng. Now I know people still refer to it as Sài Gòn unofficially, but I can't find any source that says it's actually still the **official** name of anything in or around the city.


Tsalagi_

Confederate Vietnam


Aaeaeama

The War of Northern (Vietnam) Aggression


bunblydumbly

I mean, that’s kind of true in this case…


Aaeaeama

As true as every Lost Causer believes it to be, the world over, for sure.


bunblydumbly

Not really, the war in earnest started with a communist insurgency in the South. Not saying it wasn’t justified, but you can see what I mean.


[deleted]

r/vexillology use Google search challenge level: impossible


binhan123ad

As a Vietnamese, sometime, I just want people just combine both our and their flag together to just resolve the conflict between 2 sides. It is been nearly 50 years and people just kept argue about it.


Megalomaniac001

Just hang a flag that says ‘I hate China’ in Vietnamese, it shall unite both sides


RUSFOR-Topi

Right? I feel like it’d be really easy to fly both flags together or do a split-flag type of thing. I get that a majority of Vietnamese people in America are diaspora from South Vietnam, but that doesn’t apply to everyone, especially on college campuses.


bluntpencil2001

That's like having the Confederate flag stitched to the US flag.


binhan123ad

Pretty much we can remake the US flag into Vietnam flag with the current one replace for the area insicate the 50 states and the old one indicate the stripe area.


Odd_Hand_8601

South Vietnam


Theyassuminimahuman

South Vietnam


Pikatroid

That's the flag of South Vietnam (1955-1975)


IQBrayden24

South Vietnam


Pro_Yankee

Is your school in California?


FragrantGold5271

Texas 🤠


iaann03

That was the Former Flag of the Republic of Vietnam


HKBFG

it's the flag of vietnam, but the curriculum here seems to be half a century out of date.


apli_grg

Poor losers.


SoftPastelsYT

South Vietnam


Katze1Punkt0

Im way more interested why this map shows an independent Sakhalin Island. (the rest of Russian isnt there, and its a different colour from Japan)


azurfall88

"pacific islander" where tuvalu, Micronesia, fiji, vanuatu etc?


Phosphorus44

Someone is mad about the Vietnam war.


Historical-Nerd1331

South Vietnam


[deleted]

The flag of disgruntled Vietnamese-Americans who refuse to face the facts and accept defeat.


That_Code3364

HOOO BOY


Happy_Krabb

Talking about bad losers...


ksheep

I mean, it's still used by those Vietnamese who fled the country, and quite a few states officially recognize the flag as the "Vietnamese Heritage and Freedom Flag."


Project_2501_

Freedom flag… bit of a stretch


Aaeaeama

Alabama, Mississippi and Georgia should pay small South Pacific nations and like, Transnistria and Balkan breakaway states to recognize the Confederate flag as the "American Heritage and Freedom Flag."


comicsandstuffidk

That right there is a political statement lol. But a random one considering they didn’t do the same for China


UnproductiveFailure

Well what flag would they use to represent the Mainland if not the current one? The ROC flag is already taken by Taiwan. The Qing Dynasty flag? Would look a little ridiculous. The Five-Stripe flag? Too obscure and associated with a Japanese puppet state.


Creeppy99

Flag of coping because you lost to rice farmers Edit: Thought I was in the circlejerk sub, but I'll keep this


[deleted]

It's South Vietnam, most Vietnamese Americans come from South Vietnam, and many were refugees fleeing the war. As a result many in the diaspora prefer the Cochinchina flag.


Mendo10_

The wrong one


hibok1

Amazing that they used the fake flag for Vietnam yet still labeled the CCP “China”, ROC “Taiwan”, and “South” Korea instead of just Korea. It’s like they wanted to be anti communist but got lazy and gave up halfway through


SapperBeast102st

**True** Vietnam


cripo092

Gusano flag


iAlkalus

Weird. Why is that poster using the flag of South Vietnam?


NowhereMan661

Whoever chose that flag for Vietnam is a sore looser or sides with sore losers.


PaldinWald

So if your country is taken over by fascists who change your flag, you think people should completely support them and wave a flag that doesn't represent your ideology? What an unsubstantial take.


NowhereMan661

Vietnam isn't fascist.


Shepher27

The people flying that flag are likely the descendants of Vietnamese refugees and exiles, most Vietnamese Americans use that flag.


Sodafff

I have a lot ot Vietnamese friends in America and they rarely see that flag. People who use that flag are just the vocal minorities that are salty about the Vietnam war, mostly old South Vietnam refugees. Source: I'm Vietnamese


truebosniack

It's just a similar scenario, sense most people in the west have no issue with communism.


Archived_Archosaur

I guess someone's still salty about how that war turned out, hehe


globerfest

It's like the us using the flag of the confederacy. Just sore losers.


truebosniack

The Confederacy never claimed to be the United States. The Confederacy wanted independence from the United States, and for the time of it's existence was a separate entity. It is a completely different situation.


nona_ssv

Tankies usually try to compare the US Civil War to things that are poor comparisons (Taiwan ROC and China PRC is another example of a situation that doesn't match the US Civil War at all, but they keep making comparisons to it).


ElectorSet

Honestly, if a million Southerners fled to Portugal in 1863 I wouldn’t be all that mad if their descendants self-identified with the Confederate flag. They definitely have a better justification than anybody with the Stars and Bars flying outside their house but Old Glory on their passport.


[deleted]

Yeah like the Russian Army using the Soviet flag, sore fucking losers.


LuigiTheL333CC

South Vietnam aka an American Puppet


anhkhoaO410

why the fuck is this downvoted lol like Vietnam are a big chess board for the Soviets and The US


[deleted]

“Commies are scary”


[deleted]

Yes


Jeffery-2

Definitely an old poster. It is the flag of South Vietnam, which no longer exists. It became part of Vietnam after the Vietnam war.


FragrantGold5271

This was put up at the beginning of the school year.


Jeffery-2

I mean the poster its self is old.


TumblrLoser

So based


Strauss1269

One may call it “Free Vietnam” while others just call it “flag of the Vietnamese Diaspora” Meanwhile Mainland Vietnamese would find it cringe.


[deleted]

Republic of Vietnam, Republic of Korea, Republic of China, all dictatorships like their enemies were, just without the communist angle.


StarKiller22-

That's the real flag of Vietnam. Your AAPI group is based.


Taro-Forsaken

The superior one


Smilecountry

That's Democratic South Vietnam.


y-nkh

Not exactly democratic. It started out as a monarchy, had several eras of military dictatorship, and even when elections were held they were often quite fraudulent.


Potato-Lenin

“Democratic”


KaiserWilhelmThe69

So democratic the vast majority of their existence they are rule by either Christian fanatics or military dictatorships


SilanggubanRedditor

As democratic as North Korea


Taro-Forsaken

The better one


javerthugo

The legitimate government of Vietnam.


yeahimsadsowut

REJECT MODERNITY EMBRACE BO DAI


lemonsarethekey

Seriously?


Shepher27

They’re one of today’s 10,000 people who learn something new today.


lemonsarethekey

I mean it's literally labeled tho. Sure it's the old flag but it'd be incredibly easy to find in about 10 seconds on Google


MaxTHC

Yeah, searching "yellow flag vietnam" gives you the appropriate wikipedia article as the very first result. I don't mind identification posts in general but I do wish people would make the bare minimum effort before asking here. Especially in this case since the resulting thread is about 90% cancer.


Soft-Repair264

Why is Turkmenistan a ‘pacific islander’?


lemonsarethekey

It doesn't say that it is?


ghostheadempire

The sore losers club.


reiwa_heisei_showa

Wtf your school supports fascist South vietnam!?


Friz617

You can’t just call any authoritarian country « fascist »


Not-VonSpee

Excuse me? What's a "Pacific Islander?"


FragrantGold5271

Samoan, Togans, Fijians, Melanesians, etc. Basically people from the Polynesia, Micronesia, and Melanesia.


Potato-Lenin

It’s the flag of Vietnam if it was still coping