Damn a lot of haters here. Needs some color grading since it's a bit too green, but cute lil video nonetheless. If that's what the client wants, that's what they get. Probably would have got a bit more varied locations, and her interacting with the locations. Maybe introduce some type of narrative.
$350 2 hours for the shoot 1 for the edit. I doubt she's got a budget lmao. $200 for your version!
I appreciate it guys. For further context, I forgot to mention in my original post that this is meant for their own model showcase or for anyone who wants to do this for fun, hence the lack of narrative etc and sticking to one lens. BUT these are VALID criticisms nonetheless so I TRULY appreciate this, if not only the civil approach in addressing them. Reddit can be cruel lol.
I would charge no more than 100-200 Max.
I think it's a bit unpolished for what it is, but only my opinion. It's a good work for building reputation and portfolio though. Also you can also just charge what you think its worth since you were the one who knows how much work it really was.
Well these are just some thoughts: I think cuts are a bit too random, some shots are repetitive. Sometimes it cuts to a bit of camera movement which is not perfectly stable but not wobbly in an artistic manner - something inbetween. The background is overexposed in some shots, which makes the shots seem amateurish.
Also I miss a bit of storytelling. Something the model is doing or trying to achieve. Just a bit of context. It was probably intended to be just a Portrait Reel, but I think the vid would greatly benefit from a bit of context.
So 100 euros, for lets say 3 hrs of shooting and 2 hours of post (which is very much on the low end, probably more). 100/5, 20 per hour, minus taxes and gear costs, thats below minimum wage man. 200 is better but still piss poor.
You could see it that way...
But you also build your portfolio, leave a happier customer who might tell coworkers, friends and family about you because you didn't charge 700$ for a 30sec clip, you get more customers, build your brand and reputation AND Build your Skills step by step. And then you can start to charge more and more...
Also a 100€ is certainly on the lower end in my opinion. If I were in his shoes, I would charge something around 170-200€ for a clip like this.
Is this what you do for a living? Maybe we’re on entirely different tax systems, who knows. But germany should be similar to belgium to some degree.
Life aint cheap. Your time aint cheap. I get what you’re saying, but this in the end boils down to the ‘work for the exposure’ principle. When you’ve been asked by a client to do X, price accordingly. You can do portfolio gigs for things of your choosing, not the other way around. The client asked for this concept, he delivered. Some stuff could be better, but thats always the case. Entry level pricing as a freelance creative should already be well above minimum wage in said country. If you can make 15 bucks an hour after taxes flipping burgers at mcdonalds (which is the case in belgium in a post corona world), then you need to make AT LEAST 25/hr (not revenue, profit) in this business to survive whatsoever. You’re not gonna have 40 hrs of shooting/editing every week, you need time for marketing, sales, backoffice. And in any business, especially this one, you have moments of a lot of sales, and ones where there’s barely any. You also need to compensate for that.
And yes, sometimes that boils down to big numbers. Even for a ‘30second clip’. That alone makes me think you dont work actively in this business. A lot of work nowadays is short form. The worth or effort of a video isnt determined by its length. Heck, tv advertising is generally shorter than 30 seconds and can cost millions for a single ad. You can put in any amount of effort you like. I generally spend a small day on a one minute aftermovie of an event. I charge accordingly and my clients are happy. Win win.
Tl;dr: dont undersell yourself. Look at the actual cost of doing business and charge correctly. Word of mouth will follow quality, not bottom of the barrel pricing.
I get what you are saying, but there are different approaches to everything. And in the end, everything comes down to the result.
Lets review the customer side: If I would get this clip and an 600€ invoice, I would be really disappointed.
Also, I said what I would charge for a clip, and OP already said what hours he actually put in. And since you havent even mentioned your "price" for a clip of this nature, I dont know why youre so pressed.
The client seems to have requested this though, a clip where she just looks into the camera all cute in a short video. OP was clear that she wanted to do the direction. The grading can use some work but other than that it’s pretty much what she asked for.
I looked at all the comments. How many hours did he put down? I see him mentioning he spent far less than half a day, but I doubt thats including the shoot.
And I did mention my pricing actually. Its in this thread. Honestly I probably would decline this gig or upsell it to something more worthwhile. Add some storytelling and go for multiple short clips. Otherwise its not worth it to lock down a day for a shoot like this. If the upsell works, I’d suggest shooting 2-3 clips worth of material with different concepts in half a day. Then half a day edit per clip. 480 is my half day rate for a shoot including taxes. Then 300 per half day edit.
You are indeed right about the request. And I think OP did a good enough job. In Germany, you have a certain tax free amount you can earn as a small business before you need to pay taxes and since hes relatively new, I assumed he didnt need to pay taxes yet.
If you factor taxes in, something around 300-400 would seem okay, your rates seem reasonable for an experienced videograph.
Ah, well thats the thing thats been missing in this discussion man. 300 seems far more reasonable. No idea what system this guy is in, we have no idea what country he’s even in. But the assumption of being tax free seems like something worth mentioning.
There’s a system like that in belgium too. But it’s only for very small revenue’s. If you make even a bit of money with a sidegig you’re already over that bracket. So I didnt even think of that category.
Region and fiscal systems are really important in these discussions and they almost never get mentioned in these threads. In belgium we’re very heavily taxed, so the rate I mentioned is probably less than you think it is. For every 100 euro’s revenue, you get about 55 euros profit, if you have 0 expenses, otherwise you have to deduct those along the process too. I aim for 70+k revenue a year to have a 26k net salary give or take, so 2200 euros a month.
Aside from oversharing. Just trying to protect op and others from harmful comments. If for example he lives in the netherlands, in a big city and does pay regular taxes, then it probably wouldnt feel good for him to read his work is worth 100-200 euros even though that would put him in a terrible financial spot and it’s not accurate to his situation. People often dont think critically about info like this and will take it at face value.
So, first of all, this all is very relative to the country and region you live in. Taxes vary wildly between countries, and even with the same taxes, someone living on the countryside vs a metropole are gnna be vastly different numbers.
I live in belgium. Generally I try to work with half or full dayrates. No hourly nonsense. This shoot is something I’d suggest half a day shoot for, and half a day edit. Which is 480 plus 300, plus travel expenses. Mind you we live in a heavily taxed country. 21% of that is straight up sales tax and isnt even discussed in pricing, it goes straight to the government. So, really its 400 plus 250. And then off that come my investment costs, then income tax (which is about 30-40%). Which leaves me with about half. So, 300ish net for a days work.
I’ll agree the video seems to lack a bit of narrative, but thats your clients choice it seems. You could advise them to do some storyboarding for the next one which would make it a better product. The colour seems a bit off / inconsistent at times. But overall its a good look. I’m mostly missing some shot variation. Its all medium shots of her face. If I shot this it would probably look a bit better but nothing crazy.
Hope that helps.
what is the point of the video? Like she wants to be a model and this is a reel she’ll send around to try to get work? Or she just wants a fun little video to post of herself on social media??
That’s the one thing I forgot to add in my original post which I can’t edit (unless I’m on pc i think). But yes, it’s for model showcase / people just wanting to model for fun with a cinematic edge.
Fun little video, I like the editing and movement. I’ll agree with another poster that said it’s a little too green, I think some further grading would help a lot. If she’s happy, that’s all that matters, but maybe I’d go back in and work on the color just for my own practice. I’ve spent a lot longer shooting people that don’t smile, looks like a fun/creative couple of hours!
Lots of haters in this comment section. For a quick and dirty edit/shoot, it’s solid! It seems like you understood what the client was looking for and executed well. Not every shoot needs to be “professional,” especially with something where I assume the budget is really low. Im a fan of the editing, just could use some color grading I suppose.
Good work man, keep it up!
OMG is this video in 4k??!!
I think in 2024 we don't need to tag videos as 4k. Basically all cameras shoot 4k now - it's not a differentiator that needs to be bragged about or tagged.
I’m pretty sure one of their friends could shoot this on an iPhone and get almost the exact same result, maybe even better as the colour balance would be better. I don’t see this video having any commercial value for any videographer that is worth doing the things listed above. Not to be a dick, but if you’re offering something like this, in this field of work then you need massively up the production value to make it worth you doing it both for the client and for your bank balance.
Would you be able to share why this video isn't good, and what would make the video into a 'commercial standard' or 'professional standard'? For learning purposes (I'm not OP but hobbyist looking to learn and improve).
standard 1/2 day rate $500 au. throw in free direction (outdoor, no additional lighting). however, seems a rather pointless video - prancing around in front of the camera?
Amateur gimbal shots and poor color grading?
$100
Also,
surplus charge of $10 if uploaded privately on their own account without collaboration tag
Do NOT do this, it's in very poor taste
Damn a lot of haters here. Needs some color grading since it's a bit too green, but cute lil video nonetheless. If that's what the client wants, that's what they get. Probably would have got a bit more varied locations, and her interacting with the locations. Maybe introduce some type of narrative. $350 2 hours for the shoot 1 for the edit. I doubt she's got a budget lmao. $200 for your version!
What I've learned from the videography subreddit, is that videographers hate videography and videographers.
It’s almost as bad as Star Wars fans, lol
🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, it's fine. Looks like the videographer only has one lens though. Different focal lengths would help for variety.
Reddit is just sad like that.
I appreciate it guys. For further context, I forgot to mention in my original post that this is meant for their own model showcase or for anyone who wants to do this for fun, hence the lack of narrative etc and sticking to one lens. BUT these are VALID criticisms nonetheless so I TRULY appreciate this, if not only the civil approach in addressing them. Reddit can be cruel lol.
I would charge no more than 100-200 Max. I think it's a bit unpolished for what it is, but only my opinion. It's a good work for building reputation and portfolio though. Also you can also just charge what you think its worth since you were the one who knows how much work it really was.
Would you be able to share why this is unpolished work and what would make it better/'polished'? For learning purposes (I'm not OP but hobbyist).
Well these are just some thoughts: I think cuts are a bit too random, some shots are repetitive. Sometimes it cuts to a bit of camera movement which is not perfectly stable but not wobbly in an artistic manner - something inbetween. The background is overexposed in some shots, which makes the shots seem amateurish. Also I miss a bit of storytelling. Something the model is doing or trying to achieve. Just a bit of context. It was probably intended to be just a Portrait Reel, but I think the vid would greatly benefit from a bit of context.
So 100 euros, for lets say 3 hrs of shooting and 2 hours of post (which is very much on the low end, probably more). 100/5, 20 per hour, minus taxes and gear costs, thats below minimum wage man. 200 is better but still piss poor.
You could see it that way... But you also build your portfolio, leave a happier customer who might tell coworkers, friends and family about you because you didn't charge 700$ for a 30sec clip, you get more customers, build your brand and reputation AND Build your Skills step by step. And then you can start to charge more and more... Also a 100€ is certainly on the lower end in my opinion. If I were in his shoes, I would charge something around 170-200€ for a clip like this.
Is this what you do for a living? Maybe we’re on entirely different tax systems, who knows. But germany should be similar to belgium to some degree. Life aint cheap. Your time aint cheap. I get what you’re saying, but this in the end boils down to the ‘work for the exposure’ principle. When you’ve been asked by a client to do X, price accordingly. You can do portfolio gigs for things of your choosing, not the other way around. The client asked for this concept, he delivered. Some stuff could be better, but thats always the case. Entry level pricing as a freelance creative should already be well above minimum wage in said country. If you can make 15 bucks an hour after taxes flipping burgers at mcdonalds (which is the case in belgium in a post corona world), then you need to make AT LEAST 25/hr (not revenue, profit) in this business to survive whatsoever. You’re not gonna have 40 hrs of shooting/editing every week, you need time for marketing, sales, backoffice. And in any business, especially this one, you have moments of a lot of sales, and ones where there’s barely any. You also need to compensate for that. And yes, sometimes that boils down to big numbers. Even for a ‘30second clip’. That alone makes me think you dont work actively in this business. A lot of work nowadays is short form. The worth or effort of a video isnt determined by its length. Heck, tv advertising is generally shorter than 30 seconds and can cost millions for a single ad. You can put in any amount of effort you like. I generally spend a small day on a one minute aftermovie of an event. I charge accordingly and my clients are happy. Win win. Tl;dr: dont undersell yourself. Look at the actual cost of doing business and charge correctly. Word of mouth will follow quality, not bottom of the barrel pricing.
I get what you are saying, but there are different approaches to everything. And in the end, everything comes down to the result. Lets review the customer side: If I would get this clip and an 600€ invoice, I would be really disappointed. Also, I said what I would charge for a clip, and OP already said what hours he actually put in. And since you havent even mentioned your "price" for a clip of this nature, I dont know why youre so pressed.
The client seems to have requested this though, a clip where she just looks into the camera all cute in a short video. OP was clear that she wanted to do the direction. The grading can use some work but other than that it’s pretty much what she asked for. I looked at all the comments. How many hours did he put down? I see him mentioning he spent far less than half a day, but I doubt thats including the shoot. And I did mention my pricing actually. Its in this thread. Honestly I probably would decline this gig or upsell it to something more worthwhile. Add some storytelling and go for multiple short clips. Otherwise its not worth it to lock down a day for a shoot like this. If the upsell works, I’d suggest shooting 2-3 clips worth of material with different concepts in half a day. Then half a day edit per clip. 480 is my half day rate for a shoot including taxes. Then 300 per half day edit.
You are indeed right about the request. And I think OP did a good enough job. In Germany, you have a certain tax free amount you can earn as a small business before you need to pay taxes and since hes relatively new, I assumed he didnt need to pay taxes yet. If you factor taxes in, something around 300-400 would seem okay, your rates seem reasonable for an experienced videograph.
Ah, well thats the thing thats been missing in this discussion man. 300 seems far more reasonable. No idea what system this guy is in, we have no idea what country he’s even in. But the assumption of being tax free seems like something worth mentioning. There’s a system like that in belgium too. But it’s only for very small revenue’s. If you make even a bit of money with a sidegig you’re already over that bracket. So I didnt even think of that category. Region and fiscal systems are really important in these discussions and they almost never get mentioned in these threads. In belgium we’re very heavily taxed, so the rate I mentioned is probably less than you think it is. For every 100 euro’s revenue, you get about 55 euros profit, if you have 0 expenses, otherwise you have to deduct those along the process too. I aim for 70+k revenue a year to have a 26k net salary give or take, so 2200 euros a month. Aside from oversharing. Just trying to protect op and others from harmful comments. If for example he lives in the netherlands, in a big city and does pay regular taxes, then it probably wouldnt feel good for him to read his work is worth 100-200 euros even though that would put him in a terrible financial spot and it’s not accurate to his situation. People often dont think critically about info like this and will take it at face value.
2 grands because client force me to make such a cringy video.
True
What’s your hourly rate? How long is it going to take you?
Half a day at most (far less with this one, given there’s no real narrative here). I go flat. But please feel free to chime in!
So, first of all, this all is very relative to the country and region you live in. Taxes vary wildly between countries, and even with the same taxes, someone living on the countryside vs a metropole are gnna be vastly different numbers. I live in belgium. Generally I try to work with half or full dayrates. No hourly nonsense. This shoot is something I’d suggest half a day shoot for, and half a day edit. Which is 480 plus 300, plus travel expenses. Mind you we live in a heavily taxed country. 21% of that is straight up sales tax and isnt even discussed in pricing, it goes straight to the government. So, really its 400 plus 250. And then off that come my investment costs, then income tax (which is about 30-40%). Which leaves me with about half. So, 300ish net for a days work. I’ll agree the video seems to lack a bit of narrative, but thats your clients choice it seems. You could advise them to do some storyboarding for the next one which would make it a better product. The colour seems a bit off / inconsistent at times. But overall its a good look. I’m mostly missing some shot variation. Its all medium shots of her face. If I shot this it would probably look a bit better but nothing crazy. Hope that helps.
what is the point of the video? Like she wants to be a model and this is a reel she’ll send around to try to get work? Or she just wants a fun little video to post of herself on social media??
That’s the one thing I forgot to add in my original post which I can’t edit (unless I’m on pc i think). But yes, it’s for model showcase / people just wanting to model for fun with a cinematic edge.
[удалено]
Hide the video? It’s still there Edit: You might be from a region that doesn’t allow for the song to be played at. Just realized.
True, sorry for being rude
Fun little video, I like the editing and movement. I’ll agree with another poster that said it’s a little too green, I think some further grading would help a lot. If she’s happy, that’s all that matters, but maybe I’d go back in and work on the color just for my own practice. I’ve spent a lot longer shooting people that don’t smile, looks like a fun/creative couple of hours!
Lots of haters in this comment section. For a quick and dirty edit/shoot, it’s solid! It seems like you understood what the client was looking for and executed well. Not every shoot needs to be “professional,” especially with something where I assume the budget is really low. Im a fan of the editing, just could use some color grading I suppose. Good work man, keep it up!
OMG is this video in 4k??!! I think in 2024 we don't need to tag videos as 4k. Basically all cameras shoot 4k now - it's not a differentiator that needs to be bragged about or tagged.
I’m pretty sure one of their friends could shoot this on an iPhone and get almost the exact same result, maybe even better as the colour balance would be better. I don’t see this video having any commercial value for any videographer that is worth doing the things listed above. Not to be a dick, but if you’re offering something like this, in this field of work then you need massively up the production value to make it worth you doing it both for the client and for your bank balance.
Would you be able to share why this video isn't good, and what would make the video into a 'commercial standard' or 'professional standard'? For learning purposes (I'm not OP but hobbyist looking to learn and improve).
standard 1/2 day rate $500 au. throw in free direction (outdoor, no additional lighting). however, seems a rather pointless video - prancing around in front of the camera?
Amateur gimbal shots and poor color grading? $100 Also, surplus charge of $10 if uploaded privately on their own account without collaboration tag Do NOT do this, it's in very poor taste