Having no way for people to filter out screeching toddlers or slur yelling teens. Just having more robust voice settings and moderation tools like ToxMod goes a long way.
Personally, I like being able to individually mute people and adjust the global voice audio volume on the fly. Some games still don't let you do this.
It'd be cool if there was a "bullshit tolerance" slider you could adjust and players of a game were ranked by how toxic an AI detected they were. Matchmaking would only match you with people who were above your "bullshit tolerance" threshold and if it did match you with someone below, it would lower their volume by X amount or even mute them.
Speech to text is inaccurate and requires a fair amount of processing power, but definitely isn't impossible. It couldn't mute the first time though, it would probably have to take longer to avoid false positives.
This is literally not even a VR specific issue, you can have it in basically any flat game too.
It's also game specific, not VR as a whole. The handful of multiplayer ones I play have a function to mute individuals.
I don't play popular flat games where it's as bad as I VR but just because flat games have it, doesn't mean it's acceptable in VR (or anywhere).
The solution should depend on the game, yeah, it's just an important QoL feature many developers neglect. I mostly play shooters and they often don't give you much control over it. In Onward, for example, you can mute people in the tent but not in the game.
It's much worse in VR.
Pancake games are usually PTT, not everyone has or uses mics and there's not as many young kids (unless you're playing Fortnite or some other game aimed at kids).
A lot of VR games are open mic by default, everyone has a mic and there's a lot more kids and fewer adults. The mic abuse in games like Onward is the worst I've ever seen in my decades of gaming.
I just wish they could separate kids and 18+/adult lobbies. It'll likely not happen for a decade, tho. At least not until the platform has more even more users.
Yeah, I'd love that but unfortunately there's just not that many adults in a lot of these games. Even games like Onward and Tabor, which are supposed to be for an older crowd, are full of pipsqueaks.
In principle I agree but the funding from platforms is what makes some of these projects possible. If the alternative is that we don’t get the titles then I would prefer platform exclusives over that any day.
The open ecosystem of pcvr only resulted in near death of vr due to no one buying anything amd then less and less being produced as devs fled to places they could make money. That is reality.
In theory that's good.
In practise it's not as easy. Especially when you aren't just slapping something together in a game engine and are actively optimizing it for a certain system in order to maximize performance.
I agree with this one, especially with VR being so niche. We talk a lot about VR being niche and thus less profitable and then they'll go and make a game exclusive to a headset with a minority of owners.
People usually say "they need people to buy quest 3", but do they? Meta probably sell it at a loss, if they make a profit it'd be tiny. They make the same amount of money from a game sale no matter if it's on the quest 2 or 3. The second thing they say is "they can't have the q2 holding progress back", these people don't know how games are made and have never gamed on a PC. Old hardware doesn't prevent games from progressing, there are settings so people with less powerful hardware and still play. They could do this with the quest as well. For people that want the higher quality standalone game they can upgrade to a quest 3, for those that want the ultimate experience they can buy the PCVR version. The best part is everyone can be a customer.
Except for the Quest. Any game released on quest that could've been a pc/ps exclusive is massively downgraded on all platforms. Boneworks is significantly better in a lot of ways than bonelab. Asgard's Wrath 1 is a lot better looking than 2. The whole Onward fiasco a few years back.
I'm fine with developers aiming for Quest users as their target audience, but make the game available on other platforms as well.
The highest possible fidelity doesn't need to be the standard, but developing solely for one platform should not be the norm.
No, but that's like starting off developing your game for PC and then deciding half way through you want to make an android version. You'll have to significantly downgrade the pc version as well so they don't end up being totally the same game. The Quest has brought vr games as a whole backwards a decade.
Agreed most dev resource has been chasing profit from lower fidelity standalone systems, a portion should have gone forward from AW, HLA, LE. Flatscreen games make max use of hardware, not sure why the VR model is different. Maybe less market share and profit to be made.
It's just disappointing. Vr games could be so much better, as a whole, if they weren't totally hamstrung by a headset with a twentieth the processing power of a midrange PC
So you mean a modern mid range or mid range of what people actually use?
Because a lot of "gaming" PCs barely have more power than a Quest 3 has.
The 1650 is the second most popular GPU in the current steam hardware survey. More than 60% of PCs have 6 cores or fewer.
The limiting factor for VR adoption is and always has been money. Development is more expensive and you have a smaller market. Would you be willing to pay 120 bucks for a singular VR game if it's a AAA full length one to account for fewer people buying it?
That's why the Q2 was and still is so important. It lowers Dev costs by providing a lot of stuff out of the box and increases income by just having more active users. Sure, gameplay somewhat suffers and visuals heavily suffer, but that's still preferable to those games not being made.
The Q3 is a much smaller compromise, so maybe keep watching until the first exclusives of that release.
Yep have played flat screen for over 30 years, year on year the games got better as the hardware increased in power and this was significant for each generation. Made possible as PCs could use components from a large array of manufacturers via a set of standards. Also, the form factor allowed cheaper manufacturing costs and upgradability. Conversely the VR top end games have stagnated. Last good VR native title was probably Lone Echo 2 in 2021.
People like to pretend that PCVR wasn't the norm a short while ago and it basically failed because the people making the stuff to play couldn't earn a living.
I'm not sure if you're asking a serious question or if you're just being flippant.
Assuming you're serious, the VR market is still very small and so far hasn't attracted the attention of the main stream developer so far.
Making more good titles available to the PC market can create an incentive for growth in that area which can ultimately lead to more and better games.
Secondly the main platform currently is Meta/Facebook. They are selling the hardware at a loss, and their big project metaverse has fallen on its ass, and I'm not sure if they are going to be reliable as a platform going forward. I don't know if the quest marketplace is getting Meta the return on investment they are looking for and if they are going to continue to push this platform. If Meta stops its investment the VR market segment is going to collapse in on itself without another platform to move to.
Finally I think that the PC (and console) segment have a position with more powerful hardware that makes the medium available to more complex games that the Quest currently cannot run as a standalone headset. And I would enjoy if the things were seeing in the flatscreen segment become more commonplace in the VR segment.
This isn't going to happen for one simple reason: APIs.
Say, I want to create a multiplayer game. Great. I could start with the Steam works API for steam integration. But now my game won't run unless it's SteamVR... Okay, I'll just not use that but the Oculus Spatial audio looks sweet... Now it will only run on Quest or with the Oculus desktop app.
There's a million things going into the platform choice and creating a fully platform agnostic game is either a lot more work or yields a much worse result, not to mention developing VR for PC kinda sucks.
You'll always get exotic errors because of strange software/hardware combinations, you need to include a bunch of different LODs and settings to account for different levels of performance, you need to get a shitload of different minimum specs since basically any VR headset in existence needs a different amount of power, you still need to cater to a lowest common denominator when it comes to CPU utilization, which limits gameplay and you need to deal with occasional idiots who ignore minimum specs because "My 1050 ti is obviously as fast as the minimum 6700XT because AMD sucks, hurr durr!"
Quest is a lot easier: test for at most 3 devices, use the provided version of unreal/unity, only have one controller form factor to worry about, be done in half the time since you can't use super high fidelity assets anyways.
Disagree about floating hands. Since I'm so focused on what my hands are doing in VR, I don't even notice the lack of arms. In fact, It's way more immersion breaking when the arms are moving in a way that my real ones aren't. Yeah, it might look weird to any potential flatscreen viewers, but I'm playing for myself, not them.
Seconding this. IK is very body and arm length specific and even games that try hard at it will fuck it up for a certain percentage of players and end up decreasing immersion
Eh, I think the perfect scenario is silently becoming more and more common to the point that we need to make it more well known:
**Toggle Full Body IK**
Into the Radius, Ghosts of Tabor, and Contractors Showdown all have just a simple toggle in the settings for whatever you prefer. If there's an option for full body IK I'll take it over floating hands anyday, even if it's janky. Especially if you have slots on your body for storage.
But more devs just need to give their games a toggle and put the discussion to bed.
I hate the arms because of the IK, but I also like when there is a 'wrist' with a little IK (not entire forearm) that stops it feeling like I am holding a 'hand brick'. Pavlov did this well. But yeah arms just waste screen real estate and often the elbows are not right and it breaks immersion.
As an 11pt tracker user, I kinda wish I could have arms on other games, but I understand thats hella niche and not something most developers are going to bother with 😅
> It's way more immersion breaking when the arms are moving in a way that my real ones aren't.
Big time, especially in games where your VR arms have mechanics. I've fumbled for my knife in Into the Radius because the virtual arms don't match up where my IRL arms are.
I agree generally but ive been folling this nimso studios guy on youtube for a few years. Swear his vr body system is amazing and i just want it in games finally
agreed. everyone gets it wrong. it'll work better when we have better body tracking and scaling.
in the meantime headset and controllers are tracked, so just give me the option for that. i can do without the IK body.
I’ll agree with this. I hate being reduced to a floating set of hands. It’s honestly pretty simple to just offer both as an option so i’m not sure why more games don’t do it.
Floating hands are often the right choice, but certain interactions (eg, wing chun dummy work) kinda require arms. I think IK arms can be done quite well. Mine are good enough that people have accused me of fakery or using extra trackers, which I thought was hilarious --https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AhokLR14dY
I play FPSs competitively and the inability to see whether my body is in cover or not in games like Breachers drives me mad. Having the full body IK in Contractors Showdown feels fantastic even if the in game body is nowhere near my real one. I know exactly what's going on with my avatar and it feels like I'm much more present in that world.
I don’t know if you’ve used Supernatural recently. What makes it compelling and keeps people coming back is the constant supply of new music. That won’t be possible without a subscription.
I’m personally fine with subscription for products that keep getting new content as long as there are alternatives that work on one time upfront fee.
Yup. I've currently got over two years' streak going in Supernatural. It's by far the only exercise plan I've been able to stick with consistently because it's actually fun.
Ya and for something like fitness what matters the most is consistency, if new music gets you into a workout then that itself is worth a lot of money. People spend WAY more on fitness products that they hardly use.
I seriously envy anyone who can really work out with a headset strapped to their face (and not end up shorting the thing out from the puddle collecting inside lol)
There are even a few games that would regularly make me sweat in an overly air conditioned room, just from normal play...
And hell, I don't just mean something like Beat Saber... or that badass one with the guns set to music, can't recall the name right now lol
But sometimes I'd get a good sweat going just from playing The Walking Dead for a while.
Especially those trial levels, where it's just constant zombies coming at you, and you start with mainly only access to melee weapons...
But I guess you do have to swing with decent velocity to get through a walker's head lol. One of the interesting parts of the game mechanics on that one...
But yeah, I sweat like it's my damn job, and I wish I could truly workout in VR. lol
I think more stuff should be part of the API.. openXR or whatever api there is for standalone
The whole arm IK should be part of openXR or be calculated by the headset.. 99% of VR games are first person games where you are a human, developers shouldn't have to write IK for arms for every single game they make. It should be like the hand position and head position, just data you can get from the API.
In fact I think height calibration, arms length, sitting mode should also be stuff that is part of the API.. even turn mode like snap turn, smooth turn. You shouldn't have to set it in each game (although you should be able to if you want) there should be a default that you can set in the headset settings and then games use that.. that way your turn method and speed would be the same in all games by default. Same for motion sickness settings, if I get no motion sickness at all in vr I shouldn't have to remove the vignette and other stuff every time I play a new game the headset should know that and the game should use my headset setting by default.
It should even have profiles, so if more than one person use the headset they can pick their profile and then all their height, arms length turn methods and motion sickness settings are loaded.
For sitting I think there should be some button or something to switch it so you don't have to go in the menu if you like to play mixed like I do, sitting for the calm parts then getting up once there is action. It's really annoying when games make you go to the menu to do this but it doesn't make sense in all games to automatically detect it so a button just for that would be perfect.
Also a more seamless transition between standalone and PC. Going from the modern HorizonOS on Quest 3 to the 2016-era PC menu with no hand controls is a travesty. I think this might be better if SteamVR made a standalone headset since then you'd be in the same environment on both platforms, but it should be manufacturer-agnostic
Children.
In all seriousness they shouldn't be removed of course, but I need some way to use these services and games separate to little kids. They're loud and annoying and awful and it's the reason I put a lot of these things down and never touched them again :-(
I filmed my recent vacation with 360 video and it's a great way to relive the experience, so frankly you can take that opinion and shove it back in your display port lol.
What did you use? I've been thinking about doing the same for my mom who is not healthy enough to travel anymore but all the cameras I could find are either insanely expensive or just bad.
Good for you to admit that it's expensive. Many people nowadays assume that $500 is just pocket change that anyone can throw at anything that interests them.
That being said, I'm glad that the insta360's don't cost a couple thousand and I'll be grabbing one as soon as I can afford a used one in good condition.
Static HUD elements that can't me moved/changed. My left eye gives me depth perception and I'm able to react to things on it but it cants see any fine details.
When games fix hud elements to the left side, or middle top of my vision I can't see them at all.
I'm really glad attaching HUD elements to your hands has become more the norm because if it wasn't I couldn't play a lot of games
I play DCS in my OC3 and getting used to JHMCS and IHAADS (head mounted displays for targeting while looking off the nose of the plane / helicopter) has been a rough go. In reality, they are only displayed on one eye so they are theoretically in focus no matter the distance you are looking at. In VR everything is always in the same focal plane so they just hurt my head. If I need precision, like trying to target that spot in the distance where a missile just launched from I tend to just close my left eye so my brain doesn’t shit it’s pants trying to get my eyes to work right.
Console equivalency demands. The best VR games lean into the fact that they are VR games. I don't need more vr games that are too similar to console offerings.
I guess this is controversial, but I like hands only and hope it remains an option. Personally, seeing arms takes away immersion for me as it's never tracked well.
360 videos will only get better. There are very powerful cameras and great post production processing that can create huge, detailed videos. The reason 360 videos don’t look great has been the limits of pixels and refresh rates for headsets.
I once saw a 16k video of the Maldives and it was the clearest quality I've ever seen. Saying 'it's like I was there' is super cliche but...
It was like I was there.
airpano VR has some truly excellent 360 videos. I tend to prefer 180 for ground-level stuff but when youre in a drone flying over Rio De Janeiro 360 is the way to go.
Having 3 screens(VR desktop, Steam, Game screen) and 3 controllers(vr controllers, Mouse, hotas) to figure out to get to game.
I've tried IL-2 Sturmovik, STAR WARS Squadrons & Elite Dangerous.
I'm exhausted.
Haven't touch in months. 2 hours fiddling to get playing is not fun.
Somebody needs to 'Applefy' that rubbish.
Back to quest Beatsaber for me.
“Applefication” means throwing out ALL controllers and relying entirely on hand tracking, also throwing out compatibility with nearly all existing VR games in the process. Games have always been quite low on Apple’s list of priorities, after all.
Not what I'm talking about.
Hand your headset to Granny and ask her to start playing a game on the pc.
It will 10+ years before we reach that level I think. Companies figure out you don't need 15 screen and 7 a different programs to play a vr game.
You nerds live for this hocus pocus but the rest of us ain't got time for dat.
Boring non-functional and non-customizable home environments need to go. I think it is absolutely essential for VR to put you in a fully functioning environment when you put on the headset, without having to launch apps. Meaning a place where you can watch TV, meet with friends and all that.
Floating hands were a technical compromise stemming from the VR systems’ inability to obtain the correct position and angles of elbows. Incorrectly drawn arms would detract from immersion, but developers had no way of knowing so the best they could do was to guess.
That said, now with Quest 3 supporting standalone upper body tracking, I hope more games will support displaying arms. It will take some time though, as it’s not a universally supported feature across all common headsets yet.
It'd be really nice if we could do away with floating menus and laser pointers.
There's basically infinite more interesting and immersive ways to present settings and options controls in VR
not sure, touching stuff for menus is not good because there is no feedback I prefer laser pointers... and where would be the menus if they are not floating ?
Yeah touching is annoying because it limits how close and how many items can be presented. On a settings screen could be a lot of options to work through, rather see as much as I can rather than drilling down.
Agreed, I think the rule of "just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something" applies here. I think traditional menus are superior to more interactive ones. There's an app called movie deck, it's a Plex player for VR and they tried to make the settings all interactive for the VR space, it was incredibly unpopular and they ended up also making a traditional settings menu, which is much easier to use, easier to navigate and more visually appealing.
I finished vertigo 2 yesterday and something that made the game so much worse were how awful the ui is, it might be fixed now since I don’t have an up to date copy. I will that the buttons were all actual buttons.
I see people complain about shovelware a lot, but everything I've gotten from the store has had some nugget of innovation. Maybe unpolished but I haven't seen anything I would class as shovelware. Do you have some examples?
Proprietary-ness, closed standards, lack of repairability, lack of hackability.
Ideally, VR hardware should be as open and modular as PCs. I guess all consumer electronics should be :)
it's an essential bit of accessibility, though - if there's only smooth locomotion than even more folks will just bounce off it before they have a chance to get into it!
not a fan either. though it seems developers have a bad habit of just using teleport. i find it annoying. no reason to not allow smooth loco, and turning as options.
Industry mindset of shipping headsets that cost over $1000 with no content to really make use of em. That needs to stop. It's killing VR. It makes no sense. It's not pushing innovation, it's not bringing new people into VR, and it's not a needle mover in any way, shape, or form. It serves to placate whales perfectly content spending cash money so that they can see a little better in Assetto Corsa. Serving the 1% in VR while neglecting the 99% is why VR is so stagnant outside Meta.
I wonder how low a headset can be made for by a non-Meta company if the goal was to make it low cost as possible. Various companies like HTC, Pimax, Bigscreen etc., make headsets, but they all seem to aim for some specific cutting edge feature for differentiation and not aim to be super affordable while keeping the minimum bar for immersion quality (Something like a Rift S.)
2D only VR game trailers. Ideally most of them should be in VR180, but even if they're worried about issues with motion sickness, or the format limiting clarity, creativity, or device compatibility, there's no reason they couldn't release them at least in 3D, which would look identical to their current trailers when viewed in 2D, with no real trade-offs.
Weightless weapons. I absolutely despise wiggle waggle games that you can just cheese by flicking your wrists. The only problem is, some devs go hard in the other direction and make the weapons feel like you're stuck in mud. I like a nice medium ground where you get a sense of weight without feeling like you're swinging in slow motion.
Floating hands make sense for some games, and IK arms make sense for others. I'm biased towards having full-length physical arms, but then I'm working on a martial arts training game and functional physical arms are kinda needed for that. IK arms aren't going to be a perfect match for reality, but the overall effect is really cool when they can be moved intentionally and reliably where desired. Some games do this way better than others, and after a huge amount of effort, I think I've got some of the best elbows in VR (check out Tundra Fight School at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvOfFvPF5TxfsZij-wKlBhQ if interested)
This doesn't answer the question you asked, but if I could disappear anything out of the VR space, it would be motion sickness. Would love for my gf to be able to play VR games with me.
Picking sides, thinking pcvr is better than quest or quest is better than vision pro etc.
This hobby is niche as hell, and any extra division is a detriment.
Sorry it just seems odd to me when someone specifies such an oddly specific age.
At least in my country you are considered an adult at 18 or 21 (depending on circumstance).
Saying 16 specifically sounds the same to me as a 13 year old saying they are more mature than a 12 year old, at least at my age.
Button presses, the more of your game that you can make into a physical interaction the better. Everyone hates those few games where you have to press a button so your gun can reload vs physically taking out a magazine and putting it into a gun or push the joystick forward to climb a ladder over grabbing it and climbing it with your hands. Blade and sorcery did sprinting good because its not as simple as pressing a button you have to swing your arms to sprint.
Plus you will be able to make your game more accessible to hand tracking too. Half life alyx could entirely lose a button by making it so you dont have to press the joystick in to select a gun. But i also agree that you cant fully get rid of buttons but im saying this more in the sense that devs should try to make as much stuff as possible done via interactions over simple buttons.
This also kinda relates but also floating ui and laser pointers, its not as immersive and interactive if you are constantly using a laser pointer on a floating screen to do stuff. Into the radius would be way worse if you had a screen where you drag around png's of items to manage your inventory.
Mr VR Voice has good videos on both of these and i fully agree with what he is saying.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhdtjV8fsOk&
Sometimes those mechanisms can be annoying, but sometimes they can add quite a lot to immersion.
The first time I had to manually load a magazine into a pistol it felt kinda awkward, but after a few times it came so natural it almost felt, in my mind, like I was operating a real gun.
I agree with a lot of what he says but sometimes he comes across as too high horsey like it's almost as if you like systems that are more arcadey then you are some type of pleb who doesn't understand how great actually doing the motions are when in reality you might enjoy both methods of play for different reasons. He seems to come across that his way is the right way and everyone else is are normies for enjoying simplified systems. Like I love Hotdogs horseshoes and hand grenades for how in-depth the guns are but Rec Rooms guns are fun too just for the simplicity of them but he acts as if you like the latter then you have no standards when maybe he just has such high standards he can't enjoy the simple things in life
I’m pretty much the opposite of everything you’ve listed. I prefer just seeing my hands, I think arms look janky and distracting. I like 360 stuff especially if it’s high res. Stuff I’ve taken myself really take me back to the location and moment.
I’d completely get rid of all the basic graphics and cartoony stuff devs keep making. To me that all just cheapens VR and looks like kids Wii games. VR to me needs to look as real as possible.
Agreed on the second half, not many devs try to push the hardware and just opt for cartoony games. Tricks with color correction and shading can really make games look more appealing without excessive demand.
I like floating hands, there's never a situation where the IK breaks or the model just doesn't fit. When you have a full model, it's just a ton of extra work for something that's pretty much a gamble on whether or not it makes the experience way more or way less immersive...
I don't understand 3d 180. It doesn't work at close distances, it's doesn't do anything at long distances. It's good at making things 4-10 feet from the camera pop out, but that's about it.
It's cool you can look around, but immersiveness is killed by having black screen around the edges of your POV.
Kind of pointless, even if you didn't have to strap a big VR headset on.
Snap turning, teleportation moving
Requiring us to hold the trigger in to hold an object. My finger gets tired fast.
Paid patches to let old games work on PSVR2. Sony should get BC working properly
Being back the gun controller too
I prefer Floating hands, the janky elbows break my immersion too much.
For me it is games and experiences clearly designed for flat gaming. If you are going to port something for VR, please make it actually use VR space and capabilities.
Let's see so:
- Over-reliance on closed ecosystems like Windows/Meta/Steam/Virtual Desktop. It would be cool if open-source standards were getting developed and adopted more. Right now the only option to use say Linux for PCVR would be using ALVR, and giving up on many improvements from OpenXR Toolkit and the likes. Imagine if you could have a FOSS custom ROM on Quest headsets that works well and without losing features and if every game/headset adopted OpenXR with many of its features like eye-tracking.
- Platform exclusivity, kind of linked to the previous point but do not rely on a specific hardware. Especially, please stop making standalone-exclusive games. You can release a "light" version for standalone players, that's what most devs do, but don't just make standalone-only games where you surely can provide a much better experience for a good portion of the VR userbase by also releasing on PCVR.
- For headset manufacturers, stop selling headsets at the cost of 2 kidneys. I think manufacturers are slowly starting to get this, given the Pimax Crystal Light. But people are unlikely to buy your headset if you sell it more than 700€, all required costs like controllers included. I myself got a Quest Pro you might say, but i paid 650€ for it, including the headset, controllers, charging dock, cables, box, all in perfect shape. No way i'd pay more than a grand on a headset.
- Attempts to separate the already small but growing VR community, stop fighting over things all the time. There isn't a globally best headset, there's only one better for your specific needs. Let's just enjoy our setups and have fun together as a community.
VR arms aren't viable until they can be perfectly tracked and reflect your real arms movements. Every game with arms always has them bending wrong, the wrong shape, or just getting hitched/clipped on some invisible thing that stretches them to nightmarish proportions.. the unfortunate side effect of "hands only" is people get too hung up on seeing them advertised like that, when in VR you aren't just staring at your forearms and you barely notice it's just hands.
I think you nailed it. 360 videos are such a gimmick. They're a waste of resolution. On the other hand 180 3d format in 8K is amazing!
Floating hands are good though. I sometimes prefer them over full arms.
No, the are 100% not. They're the most nausea inducing, dizzying, uncomfortable experiance ever for someone unfamiliar. If you show that to someone as their first experiance, they'll just hate vr forever.
I had no problem with a roller coaster game on my first day personally.. not everyone has motion sickness. I agree they are a fun VR experience when VR is new, gets boring pretty quickly though even if shooting at targets and stuff.
I'm not a big fan of procedurally generated content. I understand devs love it, especially smaller development studios, but I like nailed down levels and stories. I also don't like repeating everything every time I die. I know many like them, but it seems like they are becoming more and more prevalent, especially in VR. As far as sims? They're ok. I don't play them often, though.
Yeah should be an option to go from setup to play without needing to find batteries or fumble to separate left and right controllers when you dont need them for something like a sit down driving sim or something similar. Works ok w pcvr w my g2 but tried out my pico and it was annoying having to mess with controllers just to put them down bc I wasn't using them
Disagreed completely. Very few games let you abuse kids to the point where it's a running gag that Disney Speedstorm, a kart racer, lets you throw bombs at kids.
More games should let you abuse kids cause so many make them annoying and invincible
No, games are the best application of vr. 360 videos just suck so much. This false narrative could be said about computers. But hey, professionals use computers and they aren’t pushed away by gamers. Same for VR
Not what I said, I said gamer toxic zeal.
Three words, one subject. Might be worth diagraming a few sentences. Anyway, that is relevant here. You could have been positive and assisted in finding videos that might change someone's mind, you could have furthered your point by providing insights into how to attract people to the video space. Instead, you became confrontational and went for the quick Arguing From Authority dopamine hit.
The Internet isn't toxic, the people who post toxic things are toxic. Removing accountability is silly. Why not, as an experiment, try rewriting your post in a way that's helpful and fosters engagement with what you're passionate about instead of writing in a way that puts down those that don't agree with you.
EDIT: Man, some folks just want to bash others and run. Response to their below rant:
So you participated in social media to... Not participate socially? Okay then.
I never said you were here to change minds either, I was stating that you *could* have taken the opportunity to do so. You were implying that you'd like to remove one group from VR to help foster the growth of another thing you enjoy (360 videos / other non-gaming content creation I assume), you *could* take this opportunity to show folks that the other facets of VR that you enjoy thereby moving the platform towards what you find more enjoyable. Instead, self sabotage.
Also, you probably meant impulse or inclination. Impetus is purely physical.
Having no way for people to filter out screeching toddlers or slur yelling teens. Just having more robust voice settings and moderation tools like ToxMod goes a long way. Personally, I like being able to individually mute people and adjust the global voice audio volume on the fly. Some games still don't let you do this.
How has nobody come up with an AI that auto mutes based on things said? Kid drops an N bomb? Auto muted.
It's probably kind of difficult to implement that from game to game
People mod things waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more complicated that that.
Yeah, are you into making mods?
yeah cause they are fun, nobody really gives a fuck about this
It'd be cool if there was a "bullshit tolerance" slider you could adjust and players of a game were ranked by how toxic an AI detected they were. Matchmaking would only match you with people who were above your "bullshit tolerance" threshold and if it did match you with someone below, it would lower their volume by X amount or even mute them.
In Breachers VR it automatically removes players if they use slurs.
Speech to text is inaccurate and requires a fair amount of processing power, but definitely isn't impossible. It couldn't mute the first time though, it would probably have to take longer to avoid false positives.
This is literally not even a VR specific issue, you can have it in basically any flat game too. It's also game specific, not VR as a whole. The handful of multiplayer ones I play have a function to mute individuals.
I don't play popular flat games where it's as bad as I VR but just because flat games have it, doesn't mean it's acceptable in VR (or anywhere). The solution should depend on the game, yeah, it's just an important QoL feature many developers neglect. I mostly play shooters and they often don't give you much control over it. In Onward, for example, you can mute people in the tent but not in the game.
My point was more it's not a VR space issue nor something that exists because of VR, so it's kinda pointless to mention.
It's much worse in VR. Pancake games are usually PTT, not everyone has or uses mics and there's not as many young kids (unless you're playing Fortnite or some other game aimed at kids). A lot of VR games are open mic by default, everyone has a mic and there's a lot more kids and fewer adults. The mic abuse in games like Onward is the worst I've ever seen in my decades of gaming.
come to league and valorant 💪
I just wish they could separate kids and 18+/adult lobbies. It'll likely not happen for a decade, tho. At least not until the platform has more even more users.
Yeah, I'd love that but unfortunately there's just not that many adults in a lot of these games. Even games like Onward and Tabor, which are supposed to be for an older crowd, are full of pipsqueaks.
Hardware or platform exclusive titles. VR should be agnostic and hit as many platforms as possible.
Absolutely this.
while true, is not goanna happen for obvious reasons
In principle I agree but the funding from platforms is what makes some of these projects possible. If the alternative is that we don’t get the titles then I would prefer platform exclusives over that any day.
The alternative is the loss of an open ecosystem. Another mediocre "AAA" VR title on Quest isn't worth that.
The open ecosystem of pcvr only resulted in near death of vr due to no one buying anything amd then less and less being produced as devs fled to places they could make money. That is reality.
Username checks out. Again.
In theory that's good. In practise it's not as easy. Especially when you aren't just slapping something together in a game engine and are actively optimizing it for a certain system in order to maximize performance.
This is the biggie.
I agree with this one, especially with VR being so niche. We talk a lot about VR being niche and thus less profitable and then they'll go and make a game exclusive to a headset with a minority of owners. People usually say "they need people to buy quest 3", but do they? Meta probably sell it at a loss, if they make a profit it'd be tiny. They make the same amount of money from a game sale no matter if it's on the quest 2 or 3. The second thing they say is "they can't have the q2 holding progress back", these people don't know how games are made and have never gamed on a PC. Old hardware doesn't prevent games from progressing, there are settings so people with less powerful hardware and still play. They could do this with the quest as well. For people that want the higher quality standalone game they can upgrade to a quest 3, for those that want the ultimate experience they can buy the PCVR version. The best part is everyone can be a customer.
Except for the Quest. Any game released on quest that could've been a pc/ps exclusive is massively downgraded on all platforms. Boneworks is significantly better in a lot of ways than bonelab. Asgard's Wrath 1 is a lot better looking than 2. The whole Onward fiasco a few years back.
I'm fine with developers aiming for Quest users as their target audience, but make the game available on other platforms as well. The highest possible fidelity doesn't need to be the standard, but developing solely for one platform should not be the norm.
I mean, of course meta is gonna try to have exclusives
No, but that's like starting off developing your game for PC and then deciding half way through you want to make an android version. You'll have to significantly downgrade the pc version as well so they don't end up being totally the same game. The Quest has brought vr games as a whole backwards a decade.
Agreed most dev resource has been chasing profit from lower fidelity standalone systems, a portion should have gone forward from AW, HLA, LE. Flatscreen games make max use of hardware, not sure why the VR model is different. Maybe less market share and profit to be made.
It's just disappointing. Vr games could be so much better, as a whole, if they weren't totally hamstrung by a headset with a twentieth the processing power of a midrange PC
So you mean a modern mid range or mid range of what people actually use? Because a lot of "gaming" PCs barely have more power than a Quest 3 has. The 1650 is the second most popular GPU in the current steam hardware survey. More than 60% of PCs have 6 cores or fewer. The limiting factor for VR adoption is and always has been money. Development is more expensive and you have a smaller market. Would you be willing to pay 120 bucks for a singular VR game if it's a AAA full length one to account for fewer people buying it? That's why the Q2 was and still is so important. It lowers Dev costs by providing a lot of stuff out of the box and increases income by just having more active users. Sure, gameplay somewhat suffers and visuals heavily suffer, but that's still preferable to those games not being made. The Q3 is a much smaller compromise, so maybe keep watching until the first exclusives of that release.
Yep have played flat screen for over 30 years, year on year the games got better as the hardware increased in power and this was significant for each generation. Made possible as PCs could use components from a large array of manufacturers via a set of standards. Also, the form factor allowed cheaper manufacturing costs and upgradability. Conversely the VR top end games have stagnated. Last good VR native title was probably Lone Echo 2 in 2021.
Brother just 6 years ago there was like 5 good vr games and 5000 tech demos. Quest allowed for developers to make actual games at a profit
People like to pretend that PCVR wasn't the norm a short while ago and it basically failed because the people making the stuff to play couldn't earn a living.
Yes, and right now we have like 10 good vr games, 7 of which aren't on quest, and 20,000 tech demos. The ratio has gotten worse.
With all due respect you're not looking properly
Why even bother releasing for platforms with 10% of the audience and who never buy games?
I'm not sure if you're asking a serious question or if you're just being flippant. Assuming you're serious, the VR market is still very small and so far hasn't attracted the attention of the main stream developer so far. Making more good titles available to the PC market can create an incentive for growth in that area which can ultimately lead to more and better games. Secondly the main platform currently is Meta/Facebook. They are selling the hardware at a loss, and their big project metaverse has fallen on its ass, and I'm not sure if they are going to be reliable as a platform going forward. I don't know if the quest marketplace is getting Meta the return on investment they are looking for and if they are going to continue to push this platform. If Meta stops its investment the VR market segment is going to collapse in on itself without another platform to move to. Finally I think that the PC (and console) segment have a position with more powerful hardware that makes the medium available to more complex games that the Quest currently cannot run as a standalone headset. And I would enjoy if the things were seeing in the flatscreen segment become more commonplace in the VR segment.
Experience is more important than graphics to any gamer.
Then say goodbye to big budget experiences. The only reason to take a bath on sales is to take a loss to attract people to a platform.
This isn't going to happen for one simple reason: APIs. Say, I want to create a multiplayer game. Great. I could start with the Steam works API for steam integration. But now my game won't run unless it's SteamVR... Okay, I'll just not use that but the Oculus Spatial audio looks sweet... Now it will only run on Quest or with the Oculus desktop app. There's a million things going into the platform choice and creating a fully platform agnostic game is either a lot more work or yields a much worse result, not to mention developing VR for PC kinda sucks. You'll always get exotic errors because of strange software/hardware combinations, you need to include a bunch of different LODs and settings to account for different levels of performance, you need to get a shitload of different minimum specs since basically any VR headset in existence needs a different amount of power, you still need to cater to a lowest common denominator when it comes to CPU utilization, which limits gameplay and you need to deal with occasional idiots who ignore minimum specs because "My 1050 ti is obviously as fast as the minimum 6700XT because AMD sucks, hurr durr!" Quest is a lot easier: test for at most 3 devices, use the provided version of unreal/unity, only have one controller form factor to worry about, be done in half the time since you can't use super high fidelity assets anyways.
Disagree about floating hands. Since I'm so focused on what my hands are doing in VR, I don't even notice the lack of arms. In fact, It's way more immersion breaking when the arms are moving in a way that my real ones aren't. Yeah, it might look weird to any potential flatscreen viewers, but I'm playing for myself, not them.
Seconding this. IK is very body and arm length specific and even games that try hard at it will fuck it up for a certain percentage of players and end up decreasing immersion
Eh, I think the perfect scenario is silently becoming more and more common to the point that we need to make it more well known: **Toggle Full Body IK** Into the Radius, Ghosts of Tabor, and Contractors Showdown all have just a simple toggle in the settings for whatever you prefer. If there's an option for full body IK I'll take it over floating hands anyday, even if it's janky. Especially if you have slots on your body for storage. But more devs just need to give their games a toggle and put the discussion to bed.
Agreed. I have a long torso and arms; IK always looks funky.
Tall and watching my virtual arms extend to meet my real ones messes with me every time.
I hate the arms because of the IK, but I also like when there is a 'wrist' with a little IK (not entire forearm) that stops it feeling like I am holding a 'hand brick'. Pavlov did this well. But yeah arms just waste screen real estate and often the elbows are not right and it breaks immersion.
As an 11pt tracker user, I kinda wish I could have arms on other games, but I understand thats hella niche and not something most developers are going to bother with 😅
Found the vrchat user
Fellow 11pt user, LETS GO
> It's way more immersion breaking when the arms are moving in a way that my real ones aren't. Big time, especially in games where your VR arms have mechanics. I've fumbled for my knife in Into the Radius because the virtual arms don't match up where my IRL arms are.
I agree generally but ive been folling this nimso studios guy on youtube for a few years. Swear his vr body system is amazing and i just want it in games finally
Just had a look, what's he doing exactly? Something like a Boneworks?
agreed. everyone gets it wrong. it'll work better when we have better body tracking and scaling. in the meantime headset and controllers are tracked, so just give me the option for that. i can do without the IK body.
Ehh, I disagree with you, hard to know where my hands are without it and I don't really notice the arms being wrong
Proprioception tells me where my hands are even when I can't see them, I don't need to see my arms
I’ll agree with this. I hate being reduced to a floating set of hands. It’s honestly pretty simple to just offer both as an option so i’m not sure why more games don’t do it.
Same here, in every game I have the option I use floating hands
exactly, your brain will fill in the blanks or just ignore it. hate janky misaligned spaghetti arms
Floating hands are often the right choice, but certain interactions (eg, wing chun dummy work) kinda require arms. I think IK arms can be done quite well. Mine are good enough that people have accused me of fakery or using extra trackers, which I thought was hilarious --https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AhokLR14dY
I prefer arms myself, but when I'm backlit and I'm casting a shadow, it gets so bad. It looks like I have chicken wings
I play FPSs competitively and the inability to see whether my body is in cover or not in games like Breachers drives me mad. Having the full body IK in Contractors Showdown feels fantastic even if the in game body is nowhere near my real one. I know exactly what's going on with my avatar and it feels like I'm much more present in that world.
Subscription based workout games
I don’t know if you’ve used Supernatural recently. What makes it compelling and keeps people coming back is the constant supply of new music. That won’t be possible without a subscription. I’m personally fine with subscription for products that keep getting new content as long as there are alternatives that work on one time upfront fee.
Yup. I've currently got over two years' streak going in Supernatural. It's by far the only exercise plan I've been able to stick with consistently because it's actually fun.
Ya and for something like fitness what matters the most is consistency, if new music gets you into a workout then that itself is worth a lot of money. People spend WAY more on fitness products that they hardly use.
I seriously envy anyone who can really work out with a headset strapped to their face (and not end up shorting the thing out from the puddle collecting inside lol) There are even a few games that would regularly make me sweat in an overly air conditioned room, just from normal play... And hell, I don't just mean something like Beat Saber... or that badass one with the guns set to music, can't recall the name right now lol But sometimes I'd get a good sweat going just from playing The Walking Dead for a while. Especially those trial levels, where it's just constant zombies coming at you, and you start with mainly only access to melee weapons... But I guess you do have to swing with decent velocity to get through a walker's head lol. One of the interesting parts of the game mechanics on that one... But yeah, I sweat like it's my damn job, and I wish I could truly workout in VR. lol
I think more stuff should be part of the API.. openXR or whatever api there is for standalone The whole arm IK should be part of openXR or be calculated by the headset.. 99% of VR games are first person games where you are a human, developers shouldn't have to write IK for arms for every single game they make. It should be like the hand position and head position, just data you can get from the API. In fact I think height calibration, arms length, sitting mode should also be stuff that is part of the API.. even turn mode like snap turn, smooth turn. You shouldn't have to set it in each game (although you should be able to if you want) there should be a default that you can set in the headset settings and then games use that.. that way your turn method and speed would be the same in all games by default. Same for motion sickness settings, if I get no motion sickness at all in vr I shouldn't have to remove the vignette and other stuff every time I play a new game the headset should know that and the game should use my headset setting by default. It should even have profiles, so if more than one person use the headset they can pick their profile and then all their height, arms length turn methods and motion sickness settings are loaded. For sitting I think there should be some button or something to switch it so you don't have to go in the menu if you like to play mixed like I do, sitting for the calm parts then getting up once there is action. It's really annoying when games make you go to the menu to do this but it doesn't make sense in all games to automatically detect it so a button just for that would be perfect.
Also a more seamless transition between standalone and PC. Going from the modern HorizonOS on Quest 3 to the 2016-era PC menu with no hand controls is a travesty. I think this might be better if SteamVR made a standalone headset since then you'd be in the same environment on both platforms, but it should be manufacturer-agnostic
Children. In all seriousness they shouldn't be removed of course, but I need some way to use these services and games separate to little kids. They're loud and annoying and awful and it's the reason I put a lot of these things down and never touched them again :-(
For tethered headsets, proprietary hard to replace $$$ cables.
Tribalism. No good for anything, kicks the industry and developers in the teeth.
This, please
Gotta love people brainlessly reccomending the Quest 3 even when it doesn't come close to meeting OP's standards or requirements.
“Brainlessly”? The Quest 3 is an amazing headset that is easily accessible to buy.
It's the clear best option for anyone looking to spend less than $1500.
but like 90% of the post asking for recommendations on any vr subreddit are answered by saying quest 2 or 3
I filmed my recent vacation with 360 video and it's a great way to relive the experience, so frankly you can take that opinion and shove it back in your display port lol.
What did you use? I've been thinking about doing the same for my mom who is not healthy enough to travel anymore but all the cameras I could find are either insanely expensive or just bad.
Unfortunately it was an expensive camera: https://store.insta360.com/product/x3?c=2118&from=consumer
Good for you to admit that it's expensive. Many people nowadays assume that $500 is just pocket change that anyone can throw at anything that interests them. That being said, I'm glad that the insta360's don't cost a couple thousand and I'll be grabbing one as soon as I can afford a used one in good condition.
Wasn't even my camera, a much more well off friend lent it to me. Definitely a good piece of kit though.
zombies....enough is enough
Small children, literally 99% of people on there are like 8-10
Games where spiders or spider-like creatures jump at your face
Static HUD elements that can't me moved/changed. My left eye gives me depth perception and I'm able to react to things on it but it cants see any fine details. When games fix hud elements to the left side, or middle top of my vision I can't see them at all. I'm really glad attaching HUD elements to your hands has become more the norm because if it wasn't I couldn't play a lot of games
I play DCS in my OC3 and getting used to JHMCS and IHAADS (head mounted displays for targeting while looking off the nose of the plane / helicopter) has been a rough go. In reality, they are only displayed on one eye so they are theoretically in focus no matter the distance you are looking at. In VR everything is always in the same focal plane so they just hurt my head. If I need precision, like trying to target that spot in the distance where a missile just launched from I tend to just close my left eye so my brain doesn’t shit it’s pants trying to get my eyes to work right.
If I could kill all low res bad parallax VR180 that'd be great. This stuff is everywhere and absolutely toxic to people's impressions of VR.
Console equivalency demands. The best VR games lean into the fact that they are VR games. I don't need more vr games that are too similar to console offerings.
I guess this is controversial, but I like hands only and hope it remains an option. Personally, seeing arms takes away immersion for me as it's never tracked well.
What if the arms *were* always tracked well? Would you still want an option to remove them?
Yes
Option setting would be good for these types of things.
I like 360° videos.
360 videos will only get better. There are very powerful cameras and great post production processing that can create huge, detailed videos. The reason 360 videos don’t look great has been the limits of pixels and refresh rates for headsets.
I once saw a 16k video of the Maldives and it was the clearest quality I've ever seen. Saying 'it's like I was there' is super cliche but... It was like I was there.
airpano VR has some truly excellent 360 videos. I tend to prefer 180 for ground-level stuff but when youre in a drone flying over Rio De Janeiro 360 is the way to go.
When I watch one I always feel like I might be missing something if not looking in the right direction
Do you feel like that when you walk around irl? lol
Yes? 👀
Children.
Any kind of crypto
Is crypto already in the vr space?
The "open metaverse" is a crypto cringe club
Having 3 screens(VR desktop, Steam, Game screen) and 3 controllers(vr controllers, Mouse, hotas) to figure out to get to game. I've tried IL-2 Sturmovik, STAR WARS Squadrons & Elite Dangerous. I'm exhausted. Haven't touch in months. 2 hours fiddling to get playing is not fun. Somebody needs to 'Applefy' that rubbish. Back to quest Beatsaber for me.
Steamlink has been pretty easy/simple for me to use.
“Applefication” means throwing out ALL controllers and relying entirely on hand tracking, also throwing out compatibility with nearly all existing VR games in the process. Games have always been quite low on Apple’s list of priorities, after all.
Not what I'm talking about. Hand your headset to Granny and ask her to start playing a game on the pc. It will 10+ years before we reach that level I think. Companies figure out you don't need 15 screen and 7 a different programs to play a vr game. You nerds live for this hocus pocus but the rest of us ain't got time for dat.
My 10 year old picked up my G2 pretty quickly. Mind you already plays flat screen pc games.
Boring non-functional and non-customizable home environments need to go. I think it is absolutely essential for VR to put you in a fully functioning environment when you put on the headset, without having to launch apps. Meaning a place where you can watch TV, meet with friends and all that.
Floating hands were a technical compromise stemming from the VR systems’ inability to obtain the correct position and angles of elbows. Incorrectly drawn arms would detract from immersion, but developers had no way of knowing so the best they could do was to guess. That said, now with Quest 3 supporting standalone upper body tracking, I hope more games will support displaying arms. It will take some time though, as it’s not a universally supported feature across all common headsets yet.
It'd be really nice if we could do away with floating menus and laser pointers. There's basically infinite more interesting and immersive ways to present settings and options controls in VR
not sure, touching stuff for menus is not good because there is no feedback I prefer laser pointers... and where would be the menus if they are not floating ?
Yeah touching is annoying because it limits how close and how many items can be presented. On a settings screen could be a lot of options to work through, rather see as much as I can rather than drilling down.
Agreed, I think the rule of "just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something" applies here. I think traditional menus are superior to more interactive ones. There's an app called movie deck, it's a Plex player for VR and they tried to make the settings all interactive for the VR space, it was incredibly unpopular and they ended up also making a traditional settings menu, which is much easier to use, easier to navigate and more visually appealing.
I finished vertigo 2 yesterday and something that made the game so much worse were how awful the ui is, it might be fixed now since I don’t have an up to date copy. I will that the buttons were all actual buttons.
Absolutely agreed, it feels like all of VRs UI relies too much on old school flat screen design.
Budget cuts' inventory/tool select system is so much fun
I think VR is still in the skeuomorphism stage. I wonder what's next after people get used to VR.
[удалено]
I see people complain about shovelware a lot, but everything I've gotten from the store has had some nugget of innovation. Maybe unpolished but I haven't seen anything I would class as shovelware. Do you have some examples?
Great counter. It's a new medium, innovation is good. Doesn't mean it's all perfect. Can't have both.
Be an informed customer that reads reviews then.
Sole games floating hands is okay, but most of the time I enjoy seeing the arms and body the game gives me.
I don't like when my hands go straight through walls
8K+ 360 3D should replace flat 360 and any VR video under 8K should vanish as I cant handle the low resolution with new headsets,
I'm not a fan of floating hands at all, but if the IK is crap, then it's a different story.
Proprietary-ness, closed standards, lack of repairability, lack of hackability. Ideally, VR hardware should be as open and modular as PCs. I guess all consumer electronics should be :)
Not a huge fan of teleport based locomotion
it's an essential bit of accessibility, though - if there's only smooth locomotion than even more folks will just bounce off it before they have a chance to get into it!
100%. Accessibility options are a must. Also feel the same way about snap turn.
I'm all for other options, but some of us need that shit.
Yep, tried going back to Boneworks with the Quest 3. Smooth movement still makes me physically sick.
not a fan either. though it seems developers have a bad habit of just using teleport. i find it annoying. no reason to not allow smooth loco, and turning as options.
Industry mindset of shipping headsets that cost over $1000 with no content to really make use of em. That needs to stop. It's killing VR. It makes no sense. It's not pushing innovation, it's not bringing new people into VR, and it's not a needle mover in any way, shape, or form. It serves to placate whales perfectly content spending cash money so that they can see a little better in Assetto Corsa. Serving the 1% in VR while neglecting the 99% is why VR is so stagnant outside Meta.
I wonder how low a headset can be made for by a non-Meta company if the goal was to make it low cost as possible. Various companies like HTC, Pimax, Bigscreen etc., make headsets, but they all seem to aim for some specific cutting edge feature for differentiation and not aim to be super affordable while keeping the minimum bar for immersion quality (Something like a Rift S.)
The G2 sort of met this, was relatively low cost at the time and had great visuals. Looks like the Crystal Light is trying to grab this sub 1K market.
Grabbing ammo from anywhere but chest or hip.
2D only VR game trailers. Ideally most of them should be in VR180, but even if they're worried about issues with motion sickness, or the format limiting clarity, creativity, or device compatibility, there's no reason they couldn't release them at least in 3D, which would look identical to their current trailers when viewed in 2D, with no real trade-offs.
Weightless weapons. I absolutely despise wiggle waggle games that you can just cheese by flicking your wrists. The only problem is, some devs go hard in the other direction and make the weapons feel like you're stuck in mud. I like a nice medium ground where you get a sense of weight without feeling like you're swinging in slow motion.
Floating hands make sense for some games, and IK arms make sense for others. I'm biased towards having full-length physical arms, but then I'm working on a martial arts training game and functional physical arms are kinda needed for that. IK arms aren't going to be a perfect match for reality, but the overall effect is really cool when they can be moved intentionally and reliably where desired. Some games do this way better than others, and after a huge amount of effort, I think I've got some of the best elbows in VR (check out Tundra Fight School at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvOfFvPF5TxfsZij-wKlBhQ if interested)
Porn. VR porn is just terrible. ... I kid, I kid. VR porn is the best thing to happen to porn since shaving.
The fundamental problem with 360 videos is the terrible compression visual when compared to real time 3d rendering.
This doesn't answer the question you asked, but if I could disappear anything out of the VR space, it would be motion sickness. Would love for my gf to be able to play VR games with me.
Picking sides, thinking pcvr is better than quest or quest is better than vision pro etc. This hobby is niche as hell, and any extra division is a detriment.
Anyone under 16….
Why 16? why not anyone below 21 or 18?
Trying to be nice here… there some who can control themselves at 16
Sorry it just seems odd to me when someone specifies such an oddly specific age. At least in my country you are considered an adult at 18 or 21 (depending on circumstance). Saying 16 specifically sounds the same to me as a 13 year old saying they are more mature than a 12 year old, at least at my age.
And 21 is just as stupid as 18. Same argument. And not everyone lives in your country.
Button presses, the more of your game that you can make into a physical interaction the better. Everyone hates those few games where you have to press a button so your gun can reload vs physically taking out a magazine and putting it into a gun or push the joystick forward to climb a ladder over grabbing it and climbing it with your hands. Blade and sorcery did sprinting good because its not as simple as pressing a button you have to swing your arms to sprint. Plus you will be able to make your game more accessible to hand tracking too. Half life alyx could entirely lose a button by making it so you dont have to press the joystick in to select a gun. But i also agree that you cant fully get rid of buttons but im saying this more in the sense that devs should try to make as much stuff as possible done via interactions over simple buttons. This also kinda relates but also floating ui and laser pointers, its not as immersive and interactive if you are constantly using a laser pointer on a floating screen to do stuff. Into the radius would be way worse if you had a screen where you drag around png's of items to manage your inventory. Mr VR Voice has good videos on both of these and i fully agree with what he is saying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhdtjV8fsOk&
Sometimes those mechanisms can be annoying, but sometimes they can add quite a lot to immersion. The first time I had to manually load a magazine into a pistol it felt kinda awkward, but after a few times it came so natural it almost felt, in my mind, like I was operating a real gun.
I agree with a lot of what he says but sometimes he comes across as too high horsey like it's almost as if you like systems that are more arcadey then you are some type of pleb who doesn't understand how great actually doing the motions are when in reality you might enjoy both methods of play for different reasons. He seems to come across that his way is the right way and everyone else is are normies for enjoying simplified systems. Like I love Hotdogs horseshoes and hand grenades for how in-depth the guns are but Rec Rooms guns are fun too just for the simplicity of them but he acts as if you like the latter then you have no standards when maybe he just has such high standards he can't enjoy the simple things in life
360 videos absolutely. They are garbage, misleading, and the reason why VR is despised by the public.
Lol 360 videos are definitely not why VR is despised by the public
Room scale only titles
They pretty much *have* disappeared, though.
Streamed, compressed VR with latency. I really don't understand how people put up with that shit.
That every game needs to be motion control to use VR.
I’m pretty much the opposite of everything you’ve listed. I prefer just seeing my hands, I think arms look janky and distracting. I like 360 stuff especially if it’s high res. Stuff I’ve taken myself really take me back to the location and moment. I’d completely get rid of all the basic graphics and cartoony stuff devs keep making. To me that all just cheapens VR and looks like kids Wii games. VR to me needs to look as real as possible.
Agreed on the second half, not many devs try to push the hardware and just opt for cartoony games. Tricks with color correction and shading can really make games look more appealing without excessive demand.
I like floating hands, there's never a situation where the IK breaks or the model just doesn't fit. When you have a full model, it's just a ton of extra work for something that's pretty much a gamble on whether or not it makes the experience way more or way less immersive...
I don't understand 3d 180. It doesn't work at close distances, it's doesn't do anything at long distances. It's good at making things 4-10 feet from the camera pop out, but that's about it. It's cool you can look around, but immersiveness is killed by having black screen around the edges of your POV. Kind of pointless, even if you didn't have to strap a big VR headset on.
Snap turning, teleportation moving Requiring us to hold the trigger in to hold an object. My finger gets tired fast. Paid patches to let old games work on PSVR2. Sony should get BC working properly Being back the gun controller too
I prefer Floating hands, the janky elbows break my immersion too much. For me it is games and experiences clearly designed for flat gaming. If you are going to port something for VR, please make it actually use VR space and capabilities.
Let's see so: - Over-reliance on closed ecosystems like Windows/Meta/Steam/Virtual Desktop. It would be cool if open-source standards were getting developed and adopted more. Right now the only option to use say Linux for PCVR would be using ALVR, and giving up on many improvements from OpenXR Toolkit and the likes. Imagine if you could have a FOSS custom ROM on Quest headsets that works well and without losing features and if every game/headset adopted OpenXR with many of its features like eye-tracking. - Platform exclusivity, kind of linked to the previous point but do not rely on a specific hardware. Especially, please stop making standalone-exclusive games. You can release a "light" version for standalone players, that's what most devs do, but don't just make standalone-only games where you surely can provide a much better experience for a good portion of the VR userbase by also releasing on PCVR. - For headset manufacturers, stop selling headsets at the cost of 2 kidneys. I think manufacturers are slowly starting to get this, given the Pimax Crystal Light. But people are unlikely to buy your headset if you sell it more than 700€, all required costs like controllers included. I myself got a Quest Pro you might say, but i paid 650€ for it, including the headset, controllers, charging dock, cables, box, all in perfect shape. No way i'd pay more than a grand on a headset. - Attempts to separate the already small but growing VR community, stop fighting over things all the time. There isn't a globally best headset, there's only one better for your specific needs. Let's just enjoy our setups and have fun together as a community.
VR arms aren't viable until they can be perfectly tracked and reflect your real arms movements. Every game with arms always has them bending wrong, the wrong shape, or just getting hitched/clipped on some invisible thing that stretches them to nightmarish proportions.. the unfortunate side effect of "hands only" is people get too hung up on seeing them advertised like that, when in VR you aren't just staring at your forearms and you barely notice it's just hands.
I think you nailed it. 360 videos are such a gimmick. They're a waste of resolution. On the other hand 180 3d format in 8K is amazing! Floating hands are good though. I sometimes prefer them over full arms.
Roller coaster / ride themes where the user has no control.
Those are a great "my first VR" experience for non-gamers.
No they are motion sickness simulators that make people hate VR forever
No, the are 100% not. They're the most nausea inducing, dizzying, uncomfortable experiance ever for someone unfamiliar. If you show that to someone as their first experiance, they'll just hate vr forever.
I had no problem with a roller coaster game on my first day personally.. not everyone has motion sickness. I agree they are a fun VR experience when VR is new, gets boring pretty quickly though even if shooting at targets and stuff.
shilleaders hyping up "superior made for VR" shalloware
Rogue likes
Yeah? Why them specifically? You more of a sim fan?
I'm not a big fan of procedurally generated content. I understand devs love it, especially smaller development studios, but I like nailed down levels and stories. I also don't like repeating everything every time I die. I know many like them, but it seems like they are becoming more and more prevalent, especially in VR. As far as sims? They're ok. I don't play them often, though.
That's fair. I don't mind roguelikes, I just want to see as wide a variety of VR games coming out as possible.
Rougelike/lites
Any requirement for controllers
What the hell is the other option? Voice commands for everything?
I agree with you. Content like Proton Pulse, VStreamer Live, Vanguard V…none of them needed controllers.
Yeah should be an option to go from setup to play without needing to find batteries or fumble to separate left and right controllers when you dont need them for something like a sit down driving sim or something similar. Works ok w pcvr w my g2 but tried out my pico and it was annoying having to mess with controllers just to put them down bc I wasn't using them
Glorifying stabbing violence, knife crime, abuse towards children and animals. All things that bring about the downfall of VR.
Disagreed completely. Very few games let you abuse kids to the point where it's a running gag that Disney Speedstorm, a kart racer, lets you throw bombs at kids. More games should let you abuse kids cause so many make them annoying and invincible
[удалено]
No, games are the best application of vr. 360 videos just suck so much. This false narrative could be said about computers. But hey, professionals use computers and they aren’t pushed away by gamers. Same for VR
*says gamers need to go* *Continues on with gamer toxic zeal*
[удалено]
Not what I said, I said gamer toxic zeal. Three words, one subject. Might be worth diagraming a few sentences. Anyway, that is relevant here. You could have been positive and assisted in finding videos that might change someone's mind, you could have furthered your point by providing insights into how to attract people to the video space. Instead, you became confrontational and went for the quick Arguing From Authority dopamine hit. The Internet isn't toxic, the people who post toxic things are toxic. Removing accountability is silly. Why not, as an experiment, try rewriting your post in a way that's helpful and fosters engagement with what you're passionate about instead of writing in a way that puts down those that don't agree with you. EDIT: Man, some folks just want to bash others and run. Response to their below rant: So you participated in social media to... Not participate socially? Okay then. I never said you were here to change minds either, I was stating that you *could* have taken the opportunity to do so. You were implying that you'd like to remove one group from VR to help foster the growth of another thing you enjoy (360 videos / other non-gaming content creation I assume), you *could* take this opportunity to show folks that the other facets of VR that you enjoy thereby moving the platform towards what you find more enjoyable. Instead, self sabotage. Also, you probably meant impulse or inclination. Impetus is purely physical.
[удалено]
Good bot. Good LLM. Good GPT