Looks like *opposite* speed lines - reverse optical flow. They're going against the flow of movement to counter it.
Huh. Interesting, haven't seen that before. Wonder how effective it is.
Apple recently built a similar feature called ‘vehicle motion cues’ into the next iOS to help prevent motion sickness in moving vehicles - see
[here](https://www.apple.com/au/newsroom/2024/05/apple-announces-new-accessibility-features-including-eye-tracking/). They may have drawn on their research from Vision Pro and VR motion sickness - must be somewhat effective for them to implement
There's a physical version too: https://www.amazon.com/Hion-Sickness-Carsickness-Airsickness-Seasickness/dp/B0BVYQCHJ7
Works by adjusting a horizon counter to the acceleration with a fluid or different density fluids.
That’s neat - it is similar but it works the opposite way to the reverse version above, it’s attempting to match the sensory feeling of movement with a visual cue, rather than oppose it to counter the movement cues. But its cool and I didn’t know that was on iPhone, will have a play TY 👍
Would one of you mind actually explaining in detail what this is? That’s my gripe with some threads they act like everybody already knows what this technology is. I love VR and haven’t heard of it.
If watch in the video above, there are white lines tracing the future path that the user will travel along. So it is like speed lines in anime when someone is running but in the opposite direction, it is projecting out in front of the person.
So are they just adding artifacts on top of the game that simulates movement? Interesting solution to a problem that prevents many people from sticking with vr before they get their "vr legs".
there are people who get vertigo even with flatscreen games, it's a bigger issue than you think, and it's not a simple "just get vr legs" kind of solution
Anything that brings more people to the vr table the better. If it also helps people to play flat-screen games then that's a bonus. Some games still make me dizzy after a long session so hopefully something like this could work on top of any game not just seated experiences. Either way I love that more people and companies are making progress in this space.
Yep. Apple recently [implemented something similar](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/videos/apple-accessibility-vehicle-motion-cues/large_2x.mp4) for reading in a moving vehicle. There is a whole class of problems related to conflict between visual input and proprioception.
I'm a fan of this option if it helps to unify movement in VR games.
Half-Life Alyx is a terrible example of this. It can't decide what it wants. Locomotion is SUPER slow, teleporting is like 5x as fast (and you can't get hit during it). But the game obviously wants Smooth locomotion to be a valid input method... but then anything that requires a jump HAS to be done via teleport. But climbing ladders can do BOTH.
Really, for most VR games i think they should just move to Smooth Movement and stick with it.
Some people will have to grow VR legs, and for those that can't this ROF could be a cool idea.
Those are all conscious choices by people who gave it some thought. The fact that you don't understand or agree with them doesn't invalidate them.
Jumping physically was avoided because it's risky to have people jump while in VR, that's easy to understand.
Also your "games should only have stick locomotion, grow VR legs or GTFO" is not very smart nor considerate of others. Luckily the VR gaming industry is doing the right thing and not listening to people like you who don't understand the need to help MORE people play VR and enjoy it without sickness, instead of gatekeeping it like you propose.
Nobody suggested jumping physically, really not sure why you would make that assumption. Plenty of games have dedicated jump buttons that don't teleport you. There are jumps that are several meters far in the game, it would be nice to see a realistic animation while jumping when you're using slow locomotion potentially with an option to reduce the FOV during animations like that for those that want something in between.
Yeah exactly. Of course i don't wanna jump in my living room, but i don't wanna just "blink" over a gap. Having a jump animation you're locked into would be an awesome use the medium and would be playing well with the fear of heights that most people naturally have.
And for those that don't like this... well they can "blink".
The issue is that what is the alternative to stick locomotion? Roomscale?
Roomscale is even more restrictive because it demands something that most people in the modern world have limited amount of: free, dedicated space. I have just enough free space for SteamVR's requirements but even then several games assume that I have far more space than I do and they demand me physically moving and touching into spaces that are beyond my SteamVR border, hitting furniture and walls that are at the SteamVR safe zone.
I want developers to keep experimenting and improving things, find more solutions to the motion sickness problem(s) and make VR more accessible. But smooth locomotion still absolutely must be the minimum standard, unless the game can ensure that it is truly redundant like with Gorilla Tag (and even then, it makes it clear how much physical movement is required).
You completely misunderstood my comment.
My most important point is to UNIFY movement. Not saying options are bad, but if there are multiple options they all need to be valid.
I wanna play HL:A with only Stick-Movement but i'm HUGELY disadvantaged compared to someone playing with teleport.
Imagine it was the other way around. Imagine if teleporting always had a 10 second "cooldown". Then you would likely cry "IT'S NOT ACCESSIBLE BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T PLAY WITH STICK ARE DISADVANTAGED".
And i never said "Grow VR Legs or GTFO". I said for those that CAN'T this ROF implementation could be very helpful. You just can't give EVERY game a teleport option.
Trying to cram it into every VR game is just as stupid as the people desperately trying to port every VR game to flatscreen.
Yeah i know, but it still doesn't change the fact that the implementation of stick-locomotion was half-assed and i expected better from valve!
They made one of the best VR games of all time and then have such little issues that kinda dampen it
The people who can't even play flatscreen games because of vertigo are just not the target market anyway. VR would be find if it could get even 20% of the flatscreen market.
VR should just move on without the intensely motion sick people and stop dumbing down games just for them. We don't need everyone in VR.
i disagree, because the fewer vr users there are, the less investment from game devs there will be. "dumbing down" might not be the end-all be-all solution, but it has to be an additional option, and research/experimentation like this is a good thing
I get motion sickness from some flat screen games. Low FOV and camera shakiness generally seem to be the offender for me.
IE: Today i played Overwatch and Shadow of Mordor. 0 issues with Overwatch which is FPS game and the FOV is not that large, but i could barely play shadow of mordor for more than 10 minutes due to the camera shakiness.
I think those lines are to showcase the optical motion data and how it interacts with the visible area in VR rather than "speed lines". I could be wrong, but it is comparing the two.
That’s how it seems to me as well. those lines seem like they are for demo purposes and wouldn’t be in the final product, but I’m also talking completely out of my ass so I’m probably wrong.
No the lines are the effect itself, they move in the opposite direction so your brain feels both a movement forward and one backwards tricking it in thinking it shouldn't feel movement.
What's this for? I know it's supposed to be movement lines like in comics but in practice all it adds is visual noise. I doubt they prevent sickness too, but it's that the aim of this?
The abstract in the linked study makes it sound like it's surprisingly effective at preventing motion sickness, but the full study is behind a paywall.
>To validate our hypothesis, we developed a real-time algorithm to visualize the reverse optical flow and conducted experiments by comparing the before and after sickness levels in seven virtual navigation conditions. The experimental results confirmed the proposed method was effective for reducing the simulator sickness in a statistically significant manner. However, no dependency to the motion type or degrees of freedom were found. Significant distraction and negative influence to the sense of presence and immersion were observed only when the the artificially added reverse optical flow patterns were rather visually marked with high contrast to the background content.
Well, if it works, it could be a useful addition to the suite of comfort options available in VR games.
Before I got my VR legs, I found vignette to be completely useless for me.
Oh I was at AWE and tried this one! It helped a bit, but I definitely had to rip the headset off when the fast part started. Still, a promising improvement!
Apple have added this concept into the new iOS 18 to reduce motion sickness when looking at your screen in a moving vehicle.
You can see a gif of it working halfway down the page [here](https://www.wired.com/story/apple-vehicle-motion-cues/).
It looks very cool. This is the same principle just not in VR.
The brain uses guide lines typically the horizon coming from the ground as a source of balance and orientation. So it should work. Even if your mostly brain dead the core part of the brain works off of this. So it should work. Brains constantly looking for lines and patterns.
They just need to get these FOV wide enough to not need this.
So they just add like goofy speed lines? How is this even like some fancy technology to show off You can literally implement this in almost any game by fucking around with a trail renderer or particles
I just don't get why this needs to be advertised like it's some special technology
The lines are there to counter the movement and reduce motion sickness, they perfectly follow the motion but backwards so your brain thinks nothing is moving sort of.
Of course you get motion sickness, who designed the layout of that demo coaster knows jack shit about roller coaster design. Every VR roller coaster game has theses terrible track layouts and the devs are surprised when people get motion sick.
Basically it adds anime speed lines to VR? It would be cool depending on the art and implementation.
Looks like *opposite* speed lines - reverse optical flow. They're going against the flow of movement to counter it. Huh. Interesting, haven't seen that before. Wonder how effective it is.
Apple recently built a similar feature called ‘vehicle motion cues’ into the next iOS to help prevent motion sickness in moving vehicles - see [here](https://www.apple.com/au/newsroom/2024/05/apple-announces-new-accessibility-features-including-eye-tracking/). They may have drawn on their research from Vision Pro and VR motion sickness - must be somewhat effective for them to implement
There's a physical version too: https://www.amazon.com/Hion-Sickness-Carsickness-Airsickness-Seasickness/dp/B0BVYQCHJ7 Works by adjusting a horizon counter to the acceleration with a fluid or different density fluids.
https://i.imgur.com/VKgKTDG.png
That’s neat - it is similar but it works the opposite way to the reverse version above, it’s attempting to match the sensory feeling of movement with a visual cue, rather than oppose it to counter the movement cues. But its cool and I didn’t know that was on iPhone, will have a play TY 👍
Would’ve been really cool if you had actually filmed the side-by-side comparison
Just imagine the footage without the wiggly lines, it's not that different
Oh.. That's all this is? I thought those were upscaler artifacts or some other glitch, ooft
[удалено]
Yeah but to be honest I had to look at the comments to know that was what it does..
Reverse Optical Flow sounds like a fancy name for SLLFaC (speed lines like from a cartoon)
It's the reverse though, it is coming out of you moving forward. It's more like a gps nav tracing out your future path.
Would one of you mind actually explaining in detail what this is? That’s my gripe with some threads they act like everybody already knows what this technology is. I love VR and haven’t heard of it.
If watch in the video above, there are white lines tracing the future path that the user will travel along. So it is like speed lines in anime when someone is running but in the opposite direction, it is projecting out in front of the person.
Ok, interesting. What is the benefit of this or how can it be used?
It is just a research study that was at AWE (augmented world expo) that OP is sharing. It apparently helps to reduce motion sickness.
So are they just adding artifacts on top of the game that simulates movement? Interesting solution to a problem that prevents many people from sticking with vr before they get their "vr legs".
there are people who get vertigo even with flatscreen games, it's a bigger issue than you think, and it's not a simple "just get vr legs" kind of solution
There are certain things that are just cognito-hazards for me. The moment I see then I get extreme nausea, even if it's just flatscreen.
interesting, can you give us example ?
Anything that brings more people to the vr table the better. If it also helps people to play flat-screen games then that's a bonus. Some games still make me dizzy after a long session so hopefully something like this could work on top of any game not just seated experiences. Either way I love that more people and companies are making progress in this space.
Yep. Apple recently [implemented something similar](https://www.apple.com/newsroom/videos/apple-accessibility-vehicle-motion-cues/large_2x.mp4) for reading in a moving vehicle. There is a whole class of problems related to conflict between visual input and proprioception.
I'm a fan of this option if it helps to unify movement in VR games. Half-Life Alyx is a terrible example of this. It can't decide what it wants. Locomotion is SUPER slow, teleporting is like 5x as fast (and you can't get hit during it). But the game obviously wants Smooth locomotion to be a valid input method... but then anything that requires a jump HAS to be done via teleport. But climbing ladders can do BOTH. Really, for most VR games i think they should just move to Smooth Movement and stick with it. Some people will have to grow VR legs, and for those that can't this ROF could be a cool idea.
Those are all conscious choices by people who gave it some thought. The fact that you don't understand or agree with them doesn't invalidate them. Jumping physically was avoided because it's risky to have people jump while in VR, that's easy to understand. Also your "games should only have stick locomotion, grow VR legs or GTFO" is not very smart nor considerate of others. Luckily the VR gaming industry is doing the right thing and not listening to people like you who don't understand the need to help MORE people play VR and enjoy it without sickness, instead of gatekeeping it like you propose.
Nobody suggested jumping physically, really not sure why you would make that assumption. Plenty of games have dedicated jump buttons that don't teleport you. There are jumps that are several meters far in the game, it would be nice to see a realistic animation while jumping when you're using slow locomotion potentially with an option to reduce the FOV during animations like that for those that want something in between.
Yeah exactly. Of course i don't wanna jump in my living room, but i don't wanna just "blink" over a gap. Having a jump animation you're locked into would be an awesome use the medium and would be playing well with the fear of heights that most people naturally have. And for those that don't like this... well they can "blink".
The issue is that what is the alternative to stick locomotion? Roomscale? Roomscale is even more restrictive because it demands something that most people in the modern world have limited amount of: free, dedicated space. I have just enough free space for SteamVR's requirements but even then several games assume that I have far more space than I do and they demand me physically moving and touching into spaces that are beyond my SteamVR border, hitting furniture and walls that are at the SteamVR safe zone. I want developers to keep experimenting and improving things, find more solutions to the motion sickness problem(s) and make VR more accessible. But smooth locomotion still absolutely must be the minimum standard, unless the game can ensure that it is truly redundant like with Gorilla Tag (and even then, it makes it clear how much physical movement is required).
You completely misunderstood my comment. My most important point is to UNIFY movement. Not saying options are bad, but if there are multiple options they all need to be valid. I wanna play HL:A with only Stick-Movement but i'm HUGELY disadvantaged compared to someone playing with teleport. Imagine it was the other way around. Imagine if teleporting always had a 10 second "cooldown". Then you would likely cry "IT'S NOT ACCESSIBLE BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T PLAY WITH STICK ARE DISADVANTAGED". And i never said "Grow VR Legs or GTFO". I said for those that CAN'T this ROF implementation could be very helpful. You just can't give EVERY game a teleport option. Trying to cram it into every VR game is just as stupid as the people desperately trying to port every VR game to flatscreen.
Alyx was originally developed with teleport-only movement in mind. Stick locomotion was added as an afterthought.
Yeah i know, but it still doesn't change the fact that the implementation of stick-locomotion was half-assed and i expected better from valve! They made one of the best VR games of all time and then have such little issues that kinda dampen it
The people who can't even play flatscreen games because of vertigo are just not the target market anyway. VR would be find if it could get even 20% of the flatscreen market. VR should just move on without the intensely motion sick people and stop dumbing down games just for them. We don't need everyone in VR.
i disagree, because the fewer vr users there are, the less investment from game devs there will be. "dumbing down" might not be the end-all be-all solution, but it has to be an additional option, and research/experimentation like this is a good thing
I get motion sickness from some flat screen games. Low FOV and camera shakiness generally seem to be the offender for me. IE: Today i played Overwatch and Shadow of Mordor. 0 issues with Overwatch which is FPS game and the FOV is not that large, but i could barely play shadow of mordor for more than 10 minutes due to the camera shakiness.
I think those lines are to showcase the optical motion data and how it interacts with the visible area in VR rather than "speed lines". I could be wrong, but it is comparing the two.
That’s how it seems to me as well. those lines seem like they are for demo purposes and wouldn’t be in the final product, but I’m also talking completely out of my ass so I’m probably wrong.
No the lines are the effect itself, they move in the opposite direction so your brain feels both a movement forward and one backwards tricking it in thinking it shouldn't feel movement.
Glad those 2 people are in frame the whole time so I don’t have to see the comparison…. /s
Real question is, did someone fart near that woman to the right?
That looks bad
So glad to be born immune to motion sickness. It seems like a pain in the butt.
What's this for? I know it's supposed to be movement lines like in comics but in practice all it adds is visual noise. I doubt they prevent sickness too, but it's that the aim of this?
The abstract in the linked study makes it sound like it's surprisingly effective at preventing motion sickness, but the full study is behind a paywall. >To validate our hypothesis, we developed a real-time algorithm to visualize the reverse optical flow and conducted experiments by comparing the before and after sickness levels in seven virtual navigation conditions. The experimental results confirmed the proposed method was effective for reducing the simulator sickness in a statistically significant manner. However, no dependency to the motion type or degrees of freedom were found. Significant distraction and negative influence to the sense of presence and immersion were observed only when the the artificially added reverse optical flow patterns were rather visually marked with high contrast to the background content.
It'd be interesting to know what the actual effect size was. "Statistically significant" covers all manner of sins.
Huh. That is really interesting to me thanks.
Well, if it works, it could be a useful addition to the suite of comfort options available in VR games. Before I got my VR legs, I found vignette to be completely useless for me.
Oh I was at AWE and tried this one! It helped a bit, but I definitely had to rip the headset off when the fast part started. Still, a promising improvement!
How was it from a content enjoyment perspective? Did you feel like it was overly distracting, barely distracting, or not noticeable?
It was noticeable but not too distracting, especially as it moved in sync with the motion.
That's not so bad then.
Sorry wtf is the point?
More of a research study than an implementation that would actually be used irl
As a coaster enthusiast, a 5 year old could create a smoother ride than this
The coaster is LITERALLY DESIGNED to induce motion sickness to show off the technique these people have come up with to reduce motion sickness in VR.
the problem isnt VR, the problem is it isn't a B&M
The problem is that Alan Schilke designed this while on crack
Well when i play vr i don't want to fall asleep so...
Apple have added this concept into the new iOS 18 to reduce motion sickness when looking at your screen in a moving vehicle. You can see a gif of it working halfway down the page [here](https://www.wired.com/story/apple-vehicle-motion-cues/). It looks very cool. This is the same principle just not in VR.
The brain uses guide lines typically the horizon coming from the ground as a source of balance and orientation. So it should work. Even if your mostly brain dead the core part of the brain works off of this. So it should work. Brains constantly looking for lines and patterns. They just need to get these FOV wide enough to not need this.
Microsoft tested something similar back in 2016 called sparselightVR, using ambilight, had a reverse strobe effect I think.
Im not really understanding the purpose of this
So they just add like goofy speed lines? How is this even like some fancy technology to show off You can literally implement this in almost any game by fucking around with a trail renderer or particles I just don't get why this needs to be advertised like it's some special technology
The lines are there to counter the movement and reduce motion sickness, they perfectly follow the motion but backwards so your brain thinks nothing is moving sort of.
Of course you get motion sickness, who designed the layout of that demo coaster knows jack shit about roller coaster design. Every VR roller coaster game has theses terrible track layouts and the devs are surprised when people get motion sick.
This is made to induce motion sickness. That what this tech is for, mitigating motion sickness