Technically, they [finalized the budget on April 25](https://www.wmata.com/about/news/Metro-Board-approves-budget-that-maintains-service-thanks-to-additional-investments-from-DC-Maryland-and-Virginia.cfm), which included the fare increase. But they did a very poor job of publicizing it. At that time, the big news was the aversion of massive service cuts. They didn't put out a specific press release about the fare changes until [June 24.](https://www.wmata.com/about/news/Metro-fare-changes-take-effect-Sunday.cfm)
I contacted support on Thursday who let me know that there was an internal notice stating WMATA would automatically convert any passes to the next level (bump it up 25¢) but this wasn’t finalized until Friday during their press conference. Unfortunately it looks like this didn’t happen or they decided not to, because I had to use my pass + 25¢ this morning.
I was also informed that signage and brochures were passed out at all stations. Not sure about you, but I never saw any of this.
I’m fine with an extra $2.50/week for this month but it would have been MUCH easier had WMATA actually taken the time to ensure its customers were thought of. Looks like WMATA doesn’t care.
Yeah I got told my $6 dollar pass would cover it for this month, but still got charged the .75 each way this morning, and like I don't really care about the 1.5 extra a day, but I do care about the nuisance that it is to have to have to put more money on it or change my pass level
It's fine to raise fares if they maintain good service. Studies show that most riders prefer better service and low fares over poor service and free fares. Obviously, it's key to balance reasonable fares and reasonable service. The best overall solution is for regional governments to fund transit better (and reducing funding for cars) so that fares remain low.
I'm not saying you support this thinking, but it's so interesting that the horizon of our collective political imagination leads to studies that ask about some imaginary dichotomy between low fares/poor service and high fares/good service. There are ways to have both good outcomes! But our society's priorities are so fucked that no one can imagine "raise taxes on the rich and other forms of transportation"
>"raise taxes on the rich and other forms of transportation"
This is DC, we can definitely imagine it. But there are realities that come with trying to tax highly mobile households in an area with very close competing tax brackets. DC already has some of the higher taxes in the country on high income earners. Going after them too hard will just see them move to either Virginia or Maryland, which results in DC losing money.
Not saying it can't be done, but it's harder than most people think.
Ah yes, the very simple strategy of convincing every government at the state and local level to raise their taxes to match some of the highest in the nation.
As I said before, it can be done, but is way harder to implement than just simply raising the fares by 25 cents.
"it's too hard and rich people might be mad, might as well punish poor people"
This is the motto of our entire fucking country. The entire structure of the government is fucked from top to bottom
No, what society really needs is more people that are willing to stand up and say "rich people don't want this, it's not happening!" and "better things aren't possible"
the thing is that on the marginal level, if we had 6 minute headways with a free fare, id STILL rather have $2 fares and 3 minute headways + extended hours of service. If we can get "good" service and make it free, I'd still rather that extra 10-25% of revenue go towards making service better, faster repairs, more busses and trains, and longer service hours
This is what I'm talking about. Why are those two different options? Why can you not imagine a world where we have free fares and also 3 minute headways and expanding service. Fares already make up such a small part of the funding of the metro system.
Yes but it’s not politically sustainable. Once you start factoring in populations outside the urban center, support for that kind of policy drops off precipitously.
That’s assuming they want more transit options, which typically they don’t. The Democratic elements of the US system are deployed haphazardly and often in the least useful places.
Regional governments should fund better? What would you raise taxes on exactly? Would you cut local parks, sidewalks, fire departments?
Edit: this is a serious debate in localities like Arlington and Fairfax. They can’t increase taxes on corporate dividends or whatever. Fairfax has tried to tax restaurant meals but voters rejected it. So you need some creative accounting.
We spent half a billion dollars on not even 2 miles of new express lanes between Tysons and the legion bridge. We could have not done that. Especially since the bridge isn't getting any bigger so the bottleneck will be the same.
Well that is capital budget. Just like billions spent on extending the silver line. The issue is WMATA can’t fund its operations budget like salaries and pensions. Throwing a billion at that will run out in a couple years.
Ding ding ding. Red light running, illegal parking, speeding, rolling through stop signs, distracted driving, etc etc etc. It would raise *billions* to just enforce the law on drivers, while making DC far safer and more pleasant.
Roads and drivers are the obvious place to start - enforce traffic fines, add congestion pricing, increase parking fees, stop adding fucking new lanes everywhere. But also they could just tax rich people more (Maryland is especially regressive). We could get better transit and better parks and better sidewalks and better fire departments.
If you google “tax the rich” it is about federal income and maybe state. How does it include a locality like Arlington county is going to do that? Localities pay for fire departments and don’t have power to tax income in Virginia or Maryland.
Sure but why would people in southern Virginia or Eastern Maryland want to pay income tax for a DC metro system? Seems like federal vouchers would make more sense. Federal employees already get them to ride, expand it to more people.
Why do people in northern Virginia and western Maryland pay for infrastructure and programs in southern Va and eastern Md now? That's how states work. If the rural areas want to play the "everyone's taxes should only fund their community", they do not win. Anyway, where do you think the rich people in Maryland and Virginia live?
The state of Virginia helped pay to extend silver line and Maryland is paying for purple line. You want more money, but why? Because ridership is way down. That is not infrastructure spending.
You guys act like you’re first to think of these taxes. They have been debated for decades. Here is the current rate which does fund Metro, indexed to inflation. You would have to explain to the governor of Virginia why Metro needs more money and taxes need to be raised faster than inflation.
A regional wholesale fuels sales tax, officially known as the Motor Vehicle Fuels Sales Tax, of 7.7 cents per gallon regular (7.8 cents per gallon diesel) is levied throughout the Commonwealth. The rate is indexed annually by the Consumer Price Index. The NVTC administers the tax in Alexandria and other Northern Virginia areas served by the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (WMATA). The Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles withholds a portion of the tax to fund the Commonwealth’s WMATA Capital Fund and the Virginia Railway Express Commuter Rail Operating and Capital Fund.
Yes, and it should be raised. We need to get more cars off the road and get more people using public transit. This is both for the traffic and to control climate change.
Gasoline taxes should be punitive and used to fund public transit and intercity transit in the US. Treat it like cigarette and alchohol taxes.
I suppose I agree if you live in DC or NYC. But I have had jobs in far suburbs miles from a metro station. Maybe tax my employer for not locating somewhere closer, don’t tax me so the fancy lawyers downtown get cheaper rides to work.
Anyway more people work from home now and the remaining drivers are lower income jobs like construction workers and restaurant workers. Especially in suburbs these jobs are not next to metro stops. You can’t just tax them for going to work and expect to get re-elected.
I used to think that. But I have met many people who will drive 50-60 mins to work if they can get a bigger yard and kitchen. Not to mention the issue of convincing amazon to stop delivering everything by van and not having warehouses in suburbs.
Sorry to hear you're out of work! Searching for a job can be a slog. Good luck with your search!
>lIf anyone knows of a way to reduce the fare, please et me know.
[See WMATA's reduced fare page](https://www.wmata.com/fares/Reduced-Fare-Programs/index.cfm). If you're on SNAP, you should qualify for Metro Lift.
>I'm worried that these issues will end up hurting WAMTA in the long run.
WMATA's last major fare increase was in 2017. Unfortunately, the 12.5% increase in 2024 doesn't actually keep up with inflation!
>I've also heard that they are trying to cut some routes.
You may be thinking of the [Better Bus Proposed 2025 Network Redesign](https://betterbus.wmata.com/). This will indeed cut some routes, but the idea is to streamline service and make better use of resources while also improving service in many places. The plan will cost the same as the current network.
as others have pointed out, 12.5% increase (weekdays before 21:30) is well below inflation (1.7% annualized)
The 1-day pass increased from $13 to $13.75: that's just $0.25 more than max fare round trip, compared to $1 before
overall, WMATA isn't BART, we don't have a "cross-Potomac" or airport surcharge (see Transbay, SFO / OAK).
> or airport surcharge (see Transbay, SFO / OAK
I recently learned (the hard way) that it costs $8.50 to take the train out of JFK into NYC, at least to Jamaica station. You don't get a free transfer to the Subway or bus, either. Being used to DCA, that seemed...brutal.
I think the 3 day pass increased more than 12.5%? I was looking the other day and it was listed as $28 in my app, it’s $33.75 now. Still worth it, in my opinion. Researching airport transportation in London; a ride on the Heathrow express is about $31US. I said to my husband “that’s like the same costas my entire weekend on the metro.”
you're right. 7-day unlimited went from $58 to $60.75, which is wonky. I thought it would be 12.5% across the board for the passes :/
btw, UP Express in Toronto is just CA$9.25 for a similar distance to Heathrow
I was shocked when I saw the cost for the Heathrow Express! There are other options, of course, but one train ride costing the same as my unlimited metro pass for a long weekend in DC is nuts.
Nope, it's the exact same fare structure as the rest of the system. So if you're going to/from DC on a weekday you're probably being charged the maximum fare based on distance (which was $6 and is now $6.75) and if you're traveling on a weekend or at night it's now $2.50 (was $2). An amazing deal all things considered.
I would prefer for my tax dollars to be used toward public transit (honestly in an ideal world public transit should be free for the riders as it would decrease the demand for cars- especially in urban centers). In the meantime I will continue to use metro as I find it to be more sustainable for the planet and more affordable than a personal car. Want to raise money for this beyond taxes? Install tolls on each bridge coming into DC, make the car drivers pay, especially during peak times.
If public transit was usable by everyone then fine but not without 24 hour safe reliable service. Since it isn't, there won't be enough broad support for it outside of the urban core.
>Want to raise money for this beyond taxes? Install tolls on each bridge coming into DC, make the car drivers pay, especially during peak times.
Commuter taxes coming into DC are federally illegal, it's part of the home rule act. So unless you want congresspeople like MTG to have even more power over DC citizens, drop this thought. DC home rule is compromised and threatened enough as it is now.
Excellent points, 24/7 metro, a girl can dream! Home rule act prevents tolls, wow, had no idea. As mostly a pedestrian I truly abhor cars (almost got hit today, even with a walk signal) for personal reasons and for overarching environmental reasons as well. Thank you for sharing your knowledge regarding tolls.
Wait, really? You can't toll incoming traffic? That seems like a weird stance to take when you functionally have to pay a toll to public metro in anyways. Do fastpass lanes count? What a strange rule.
Remember that DC was established as a federal city. And home rule wasn't established until after the MLK assassination and the white flight from the city began.
They wanted to make sure the new DC government wasn't illegally taxing MD and VA so
that specific restriction was codified into law.
Also the same reason for no income tax across state lines/city limits in this region.
I'm very fortunate that I have a reasonably good paying job. But with Metro fares and parking at Metro it costs almost $20 every time I go to the office, which is a significant amount of money for an activity I don't think has much value. I've had people tell me "well if you didn't want to pay that much you shouldn't live in the suburbs." But I don't make enough to live in the city.
>I've had people tell me "well if you didn't want to pay that much you shouldn't live in the suburbs." But I don't make enough to live in the city.
You probably do though. Just not in places that you're personally willing to live.
While that's true, it leads down a rabbit hole of opinions about what people need vs. want. But in the end, lots of people are going to live in the suburbs and commute into the city for a variety of good and bad reasons.
So the question is: How does the city want them to do it? They get what they incentivize. If it costs a person $5 to park every day (or $2.25 and an additional hour of their life to take the Metrobus) and then $11 round trip on Metro, then depending on where the person works they might as well drive in and pay to park. With even a single carpool partner, that becomes the easy choice.
And I'd rather there be fewer cars on the roads. Congestion pricing would alter that calculus...and maybe make it so they don't have to keep Metro prices so damn high.
I mean, yeah, by that logic I can solve my commuting issues by splitting a one bedroom with 3 people and sleeping on the couch in a building next to my job. Exaggeration aside, of the alternative to the high cost of public transportation is shittier standard of living, then the high cost seems to be the issue here.
Not what I was getting at. There's plenty of affordable housing EOTR in perfectly acceptable neighborhoods. People like to pretend this doesn't exist when they say they can't afford to live in the city.
It has always baffled me that DC and WMATA wants to encourage people to use the metro, but makes you pay quite a bit to park at the station. It really gets to the point that it is more convenient (even with traffic) and the same price to just park in the city on a monthly plan.
Some people act like living in DC is cheap, but it's good that you have a job so you won't be affected by the fare increase. However, I don't think much will come out of it except for the purple line. The Metro will still operate the same way. I can understand if the fare increase was accompanied by longer train hours like it used to be when I was in high school, running until 3:00 am.
So firstly WMATA has nothing to do with the purple line other than allowing it to connect at WMATA stations. These fare increases cover general costs which are up everywhere, and while some of that is probably going to include the purple line accommodation, most of the fare increases go to all the other stuff wmata needs.
If wmata had its way, it wouldn’t need to rely on fare increases to close budget gaps or really to be any part of their budget — in wmata’s ideal world, it would get sufficient, predictable, guaranteed funding from all its stakeholders and would charge minimal fares. But wmata has like 11 stakeholder jurisdictions who cannot agree in what each of them should contribute, so its funding is always an issue.
If you want more services at lower cost then elect leaders who believe in that. Larry Hogan and Glenn Youngkin have been two of the biggest enemies of public transit in recent memory but there’s plenty of shame to go around.
I think it really depends on how you want to live. If you are willing to live with multiple roommates and no car, DC can be really cheap. If you don’t want to live that way than the suburbs are cheaper
3am is never going to happen again. Running the trains costs more than what they're getting back with sparse (paying) ridership, and the midnight to 5am maintenance window is huge for keeping the system working absent a third rail line
My wife and I already own a car. We are not on food assistance but just barely make it check to check. I take the train everyday with my work subsidy, she comes into dc 2-3 times per week and would prefer to take the train but 6.75 each way is much more than driving the already paid for Prius-c into town.
Public transit isn’t just for the riders it is also for decreasing congestion for drivers. These expensive fares are not helping.
Okay so if metro didn't exist could you still both get to work and live with just one car? It sounds like metro is saving you from a second car.
A variety of sources put owning a car at around $10k a year.
Your wife's theoretical metro fees: 13.50 x 3 days a week x 52 weeks a year = $2106
So that's a savings of almost $8k yearly, plus you don't mention parking which usually isn't free. Or we could redo the analysis for you with however many days you go in.
Finally, note operating a car isn't free. Some 2022 data I found from BLS (they run and/or design some of the largest consumer surveys in the world) estimates average total cost to own and operate at $.72 per mile. That's not a lot but still you shouldn't be comparing the metro fare to zero but rather the metro fare to $.72 x miles driven.
Yes, on days that I have to be at work at 5 or have to enter at my regular time on a weekend I have to ride my bike into work which I do. The only reason i use the metro is due to my federal employment which makes the cost to me 0.
Our car costs us about 1700 dollars per year between maintenance and insurance and the cost in gas to get her where she is going is about 3/4 gallon round trip.
It should be cheaper for her to take the train as that would disincentivize her and others from opting for their cars, relieving congestion for all who need to be on the road.
I also can only use metro because I live on the red line. If I lived off of the green line I would not be able to take that train and arrive at work on time since the system only starts at 5 on weekdays and I believe 7 on weekends.
Though I have no plans on buying another car we could be forced to do so if I changed jobs.
As it is I would never sell my car given metro and our bus systems limitations and inefficiencies.
Inflation means they have to raise prices just to keep them effectively the same.
That said I personally think it should be free, just like using roads to get across town.
Well someone's got to pay for it, and while I personally believe it should be a taxpayer-funded resource just like roads and bridges, I think the chances of getting all the regional powers-that-be on board with that idea are pretty close to 0.
so? More tourists taking metro = more disposable income for them to spend in restaurants and bars and shops, fewer cars on the roads, more people who actually want to come here (because believe it or not, some people do not want to vacation in places where it's difficult to get around without a car, and free public transportation is a huge selling point).
I fail to see the benefit in denying ourselves a huge public service just because someone else might benefit from it.
Less cars on the road is all you needed to say, being a pedestrian is a gamble with so many cars on the road, not to mention the extra pollution the cars bring.
You say this as if there's somewhere else in the world that people go to because public transportation costs zero dollars with a hugely successful marketing campaign. Where in the world is that happening? Just wondering.
Well one excellent recent example is Kansas City, whose public transportation network is nowhere near as robust as DC's but the fact that it's free was still a key point in their proposal to host upcoming World Cup matches.
[https://www.kcmo.gov/Home/Components/News/News/1898/1746?npage=8&arch=1](https://www.kcmo.gov/Home/Components/News/News/1898/1746?npage=8&arch=1)
>In addition, the KC Streetcar extension is scheduled to be completed by 2025 to provide enhanced access to many of the city’s top cultural attractions including the National World War I Museum, The Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art and the Country Club Plaza. Kansas City has become a national leader in public transportation as the first major American city to offer farefree public transit.
lol they landed World Cup matches. A fuckload of people are going to go there and spend an absolute boatload of money. They had the 2023 NFL Draft and 2024 Copa America matches. Being able to win the bids to host these types of events is HUGE and public transportation absolutely is a factor that goes into awarding these types of events.
It's too bad it can't be privatized and profitable like in Japan. The only time they ran on the negative for a vast majority of public transit was 2020 into 2021 for reasons we all know.
But they're not equal. Using Tokyo vs DC:
One is a continuously and rapidly expanding system with extremely low delay rates and closure rates and reaches almoat every single place in the biggest region in the world. It is extremely clean to boot.
The other is a system that regularly closes stations for months, has massive delays quite often, and takes a decade to add a few stations and cant even serve tiny DC effectively. And the trains are nasty.
It's not really hard to understand that a profitable system will be much better than one that is constantly in the hole begging for money in the budget.
I feel like there's always going to be fair evasion no matter what type of gate you have there's always going to be that I think that's just the part of life at this point
I can understand why you feel that way (although things have gotten a lot better in the last few months), but the numbers don’t really add up. Metro’s total losses to fare evasion are under $45m annually (and that was before the new fare gates and recent crackdowns, so it’s got to be lower now). The annual contributions from local jurisdictions is $2.3b, with an additional $1.2b from the feds. Fares and other revenue are an additional $500m. No system has zero fare evasion, but even if we did it wouldn’t make a difference in what you had to pay (understanding that there’s a cost to get to 0 fare evasion). I am 100% behind a fare evasion crackdown, particularly now that it’s not a criminal offense,* but just understand that no paying rider or taxpayer is paying materially more due to fair evasion since it’s a very small portion of the cost to operate WMATA.
*if people who endanger my life daily by speeding, running red lights, making left turns on red, and similar aren’t given a criminal charge (a ticket is not a criminal charge) then there’s no way it’s equitable to be criminally charging someone who jumps the fare gates. Civil fines for both.
All numbers are from the FY24 WMATA budget: https://www.wmata.com/about/records/upload/FY2024-Proposed-Budget-1-6-23-FINAL.pdf
They are literally addressing this problem *right now*.
“Metro today released preliminary data showing that new, higher faregates are reducing fare evasion by more than 70 percent at the first stations where they have been installed, including Fort Totten, Pentagon City, Bethesda, Vienna, Mt. Vernon Square, and Addison Road. Metro is now publishing both paid and unpaid ridership data on its online ridership portal to provide transparency on the effectiveness of fare evasion reduction strategies and a more complete picture of total ridership to the public.”
https://www.wmata.com/about/news/New-faregates-reducing-fare-evasion.cfm
There are sensors that ostensibly can tell when multiple people walk through the gate. In practice it fails in both directions often. You’ll hear a beep when it counts an extra person. From what I can tell it no longer can tell when someone hops over it like the old ones (sometimes) could.
Of course the most theft is via the bus, so these changes arent in effect there.
If those data are derived from gate sensors beeping, then from personal experience, these results are wildly inaccurate. They should have the attendants count for a weekend.
what u/jeffreyhunt90 said. I'll add that I doubt the sensors can't detect people jumping metal bars ("emergency exit" gate, etc.). Or, where there's a new glass barrier, the clowns who climb on top of the fare gate -- alarm doesn't beep then
Not a fan. I think our main drawback is how expensive our fares already are compared to other subway systems in America (though it makes sense because I think ours is the best in America)
The tariff has always been interstate rail mileage. Unlike other subway systems which don't cross state lines. You have four plus jurisdictions that don't have dedicated operational funding for WMATA. This is also unique in the US.
At least those tariffs haven't increased much in 35 years, only the base and max fares have increased with inflation and the bus tariffs were eliminated.
Just buy a electric bike, moped, motorcycle or a car. I got tired of there closures having to be earlier because of every 25 min train schedule it’s a bunch of bs I save more money now and definitely enjoy my ride I will never use metro again unless I’m going to a Airport
Electric scooter is cheap, ppl can afford it if they wearing nice jordans etc just don’t buy clothes and save up anything is possible just put your mind in it, if you want to keep struggling than have fun doing it
Even getting a simple bicycle saves a lot of time along with using the metro. It’s 20mins walking for me from home to metro and metro to office, I can cut that down to 3-5mins if I take my bike along with me.
you lost everyone when you wrote "just buy...a car".
We have the 7K series back, the longest headways are 15-min late night on Blue-Orange-Silver, and only where they don't share track: https://wmata.com/schedules/timetables/
Well if you can’t afford a car a moped is affordable 100 miles, if you invest 3 bucks. Maintenance is lower cost or a electric scooter those are really cheap
If you can afford a pair of jordans, some raybans, a pair of levi jeans and a true religion shirt than there’s no excuse. Just charge it at work and your set to go
https://a.co/d/04CG4uDs
499 for a scooter, how much you waste a week? A month? I would rather just get this if I can’t get a moped or a motorcycle
https://a.co/d/0imTiWJZ
Or a electric bike which is 269 which is more affordable than the other options
I'm fine with all of the increases except the express bus increase. The express bus going from 4.25 to 4.80 when the regular bus is going from 2.00 to 2.25 is dumb. Yes, both are 12.5% increases, but the express bus shouldn't cost any more than the regular bus to begin with.
[удалено]
Technically, they [finalized the budget on April 25](https://www.wmata.com/about/news/Metro-Board-approves-budget-that-maintains-service-thanks-to-additional-investments-from-DC-Maryland-and-Virginia.cfm), which included the fare increase. But they did a very poor job of publicizing it. At that time, the big news was the aversion of massive service cuts. They didn't put out a specific press release about the fare changes until [June 24.](https://www.wmata.com/about/news/Metro-fare-changes-take-effect-Sunday.cfm)
But they also didn't put out updated monthly passes until this morning
I contacted support on Thursday who let me know that there was an internal notice stating WMATA would automatically convert any passes to the next level (bump it up 25¢) but this wasn’t finalized until Friday during their press conference. Unfortunately it looks like this didn’t happen or they decided not to, because I had to use my pass + 25¢ this morning. I was also informed that signage and brochures were passed out at all stations. Not sure about you, but I never saw any of this. I’m fine with an extra $2.50/week for this month but it would have been MUCH easier had WMATA actually taken the time to ensure its customers were thought of. Looks like WMATA doesn’t care.
Yeah I got told my $6 dollar pass would cover it for this month, but still got charged the .75 each way this morning, and like I don't really care about the 1.5 extra a day, but I do care about the nuisance that it is to have to have to put more money on it or change my pass level
It's fine to raise fares if they maintain good service. Studies show that most riders prefer better service and low fares over poor service and free fares. Obviously, it's key to balance reasonable fares and reasonable service. The best overall solution is for regional governments to fund transit better (and reducing funding for cars) so that fares remain low.
I'm not saying you support this thinking, but it's so interesting that the horizon of our collective political imagination leads to studies that ask about some imaginary dichotomy between low fares/poor service and high fares/good service. There are ways to have both good outcomes! But our society's priorities are so fucked that no one can imagine "raise taxes on the rich and other forms of transportation"
>"raise taxes on the rich and other forms of transportation" This is DC, we can definitely imagine it. But there are realities that come with trying to tax highly mobile households in an area with very close competing tax brackets. DC already has some of the higher taxes in the country on high income earners. Going after them too hard will just see them move to either Virginia or Maryland, which results in DC losing money. Not saying it can't be done, but it's harder than most people think.
maybe if the rich people move to Virginia or Maryland I'll be able to afford a house
Then you have every county/city served by the system implement the same or similar taxes. It's not just a DC system.
Ah yes, the very simple strategy of convincing every government at the state and local level to raise their taxes to match some of the highest in the nation. As I said before, it can be done, but is way harder to implement than just simply raising the fares by 25 cents.
Also, could just skip every station where some sort of increased tax doesn't exist to force local government hands
"it's too hard and rich people might be mad, might as well punish poor people" This is the motto of our entire fucking country. The entire structure of the government is fucked from top to bottom
Your reductionist abilities are sorely needed in today’s society. We need more people like you.
No, what society really needs is more people that are willing to stand up and say "rich people don't want this, it's not happening!" and "better things aren't possible"
the thing is that on the marginal level, if we had 6 minute headways with a free fare, id STILL rather have $2 fares and 3 minute headways + extended hours of service. If we can get "good" service and make it free, I'd still rather that extra 10-25% of revenue go towards making service better, faster repairs, more busses and trains, and longer service hours
This is what I'm talking about. Why are those two different options? Why can you not imagine a world where we have free fares and also 3 minute headways and expanding service. Fares already make up such a small part of the funding of the metro system.
Yes but it’s not politically sustainable. Once you start factoring in populations outside the urban center, support for that kind of policy drops off precipitously.
Then increase their transit options. The US is too car dependent.
That’s assuming they want more transit options, which typically they don’t. The Democratic elements of the US system are deployed haphazardly and often in the least useful places.
Regional governments should fund better? What would you raise taxes on exactly? Would you cut local parks, sidewalks, fire departments? Edit: this is a serious debate in localities like Arlington and Fairfax. They can’t increase taxes on corporate dividends or whatever. Fairfax has tried to tax restaurant meals but voters rejected it. So you need some creative accounting.
We spent half a billion dollars on not even 2 miles of new express lanes between Tysons and the legion bridge. We could have not done that. Especially since the bridge isn't getting any bigger so the bottleneck will be the same.
Well that is capital budget. Just like billions spent on extending the silver line. The issue is WMATA can’t fund its operations budget like salaries and pensions. Throwing a billion at that will run out in a couple years.
I'm convinced you could fund the entire metro system and 24 hour buses if the city started enforcing parking and traffic fines on drivers.
Ding ding ding. Red light running, illegal parking, speeding, rolling through stop signs, distracted driving, etc etc etc. It would raise *billions* to just enforce the law on drivers, while making DC far safer and more pleasant.
Video ticketing systems would fund it in less than 24 hours.
Raise taxes on the rich. They will not notice it.
Income? Property? Sales tax? I think they will notice.
Roads and drivers are the obvious place to start - enforce traffic fines, add congestion pricing, increase parking fees, stop adding fucking new lanes everywhere. But also they could just tax rich people more (Maryland is especially regressive). We could get better transit and better parks and better sidewalks and better fire departments.
How would you raise taxes on the rich?
Plenty of different proposals out there. It's very easy to google the options and none are "eliminate fire departments".
If you google “tax the rich” it is about federal income and maybe state. How does it include a locality like Arlington county is going to do that? Localities pay for fire departments and don’t have power to tax income in Virginia or Maryland.
The state governments can raise income taxes.
Sure but why would people in southern Virginia or Eastern Maryland want to pay income tax for a DC metro system? Seems like federal vouchers would make more sense. Federal employees already get them to ride, expand it to more people.
Why do people in northern Virginia and western Maryland pay for infrastructure and programs in southern Va and eastern Md now? That's how states work. If the rural areas want to play the "everyone's taxes should only fund their community", they do not win. Anyway, where do you think the rich people in Maryland and Virginia live?
The state of Virginia helped pay to extend silver line and Maryland is paying for purple line. You want more money, but why? Because ridership is way down. That is not infrastructure spending.
Gasoline
You guys act like you’re first to think of these taxes. They have been debated for decades. Here is the current rate which does fund Metro, indexed to inflation. You would have to explain to the governor of Virginia why Metro needs more money and taxes need to be raised faster than inflation. A regional wholesale fuels sales tax, officially known as the Motor Vehicle Fuels Sales Tax, of 7.7 cents per gallon regular (7.8 cents per gallon diesel) is levied throughout the Commonwealth. The rate is indexed annually by the Consumer Price Index. The NVTC administers the tax in Alexandria and other Northern Virginia areas served by the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (WMATA). The Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles withholds a portion of the tax to fund the Commonwealth’s WMATA Capital Fund and the Virginia Railway Express Commuter Rail Operating and Capital Fund.
Yes, and it should be raised. We need to get more cars off the road and get more people using public transit. This is both for the traffic and to control climate change. Gasoline taxes should be punitive and used to fund public transit and intercity transit in the US. Treat it like cigarette and alchohol taxes.
I suppose I agree if you live in DC or NYC. But I have had jobs in far suburbs miles from a metro station. Maybe tax my employer for not locating somewhere closer, don’t tax me so the fancy lawyers downtown get cheaper rides to work. Anyway more people work from home now and the remaining drivers are lower income jobs like construction workers and restaurant workers. Especially in suburbs these jobs are not next to metro stops. You can’t just tax them for going to work and expect to get re-elected.
If we had better transit like they did with trolley cars, but would not live so spread out.
I used to think that. But I have met many people who will drive 50-60 mins to work if they can get a bigger yard and kitchen. Not to mention the issue of convincing amazon to stop delivering everything by van and not having warehouses in suburbs.
Yeah, good luck with reasonable service. In the past 2 weeks I’ve had 5 metro delays of 30+ min
Sorry to hear you're out of work! Searching for a job can be a slog. Good luck with your search! >lIf anyone knows of a way to reduce the fare, please et me know. [See WMATA's reduced fare page](https://www.wmata.com/fares/Reduced-Fare-Programs/index.cfm). If you're on SNAP, you should qualify for Metro Lift. >I'm worried that these issues will end up hurting WAMTA in the long run. WMATA's last major fare increase was in 2017. Unfortunately, the 12.5% increase in 2024 doesn't actually keep up with inflation! >I've also heard that they are trying to cut some routes. You may be thinking of the [Better Bus Proposed 2025 Network Redesign](https://betterbus.wmata.com/). This will indeed cut some routes, but the idea is to streamline service and make better use of resources while also improving service in many places. The plan will cost the same as the current network.
as others have pointed out, 12.5% increase (weekdays before 21:30) is well below inflation (1.7% annualized) The 1-day pass increased from $13 to $13.75: that's just $0.25 more than max fare round trip, compared to $1 before overall, WMATA isn't BART, we don't have a "cross-Potomac" or airport surcharge (see Transbay, SFO / OAK).
> or airport surcharge (see Transbay, SFO / OAK I recently learned (the hard way) that it costs $8.50 to take the train out of JFK into NYC, at least to Jamaica station. You don't get a free transfer to the Subway or bus, either. Being used to DCA, that seemed...brutal.
It's $10 for airport service in Denver. Agree that it's a bit of a shock.
I think the 3 day pass increased more than 12.5%? I was looking the other day and it was listed as $28 in my app, it’s $33.75 now. Still worth it, in my opinion. Researching airport transportation in London; a ride on the Heathrow express is about $31US. I said to my husband “that’s like the same costas my entire weekend on the metro.”
you're right. 7-day unlimited went from $58 to $60.75, which is wonky. I thought it would be 12.5% across the board for the passes :/ btw, UP Express in Toronto is just CA$9.25 for a similar distance to Heathrow
I was shocked when I saw the cost for the Heathrow Express! There are other options, of course, but one train ride costing the same as my unlimited metro pass for a long weekend in DC is nuts.
> airport surcharge Doesn't IAD have that? Could've sworn its an extra $5 going to/from IAD on Silver.
No, you're thinking of the old 5A bus service, which charged a flat $7.50 express fare.
wait, old? was it removed or replaced?
[https://www.wmata.com/service/status/5A-Elimination.cfm](https://www.wmata.com/service/status/5A-Elimination.cfm)
Nope, it's the exact same fare structure as the rest of the system. So if you're going to/from DC on a weekday you're probably being charged the maximum fare based on distance (which was $6 and is now $6.75) and if you're traveling on a weekend or at night it's now $2.50 (was $2). An amazing deal all things considered.
No. IAD is far out enough that nearly all stations are at the max fare ($6.75 currently)
If you qualify for SNAP you can sign up for Metro Lift to get half off: https://wmata.com/fares/Reduced-Fare-Programs/MetroLift/index.cfm
I would prefer for my tax dollars to be used toward public transit (honestly in an ideal world public transit should be free for the riders as it would decrease the demand for cars- especially in urban centers). In the meantime I will continue to use metro as I find it to be more sustainable for the planet and more affordable than a personal car. Want to raise money for this beyond taxes? Install tolls on each bridge coming into DC, make the car drivers pay, especially during peak times.
If public transit was usable by everyone then fine but not without 24 hour safe reliable service. Since it isn't, there won't be enough broad support for it outside of the urban core. >Want to raise money for this beyond taxes? Install tolls on each bridge coming into DC, make the car drivers pay, especially during peak times. Commuter taxes coming into DC are federally illegal, it's part of the home rule act. So unless you want congresspeople like MTG to have even more power over DC citizens, drop this thought. DC home rule is compromised and threatened enough as it is now.
Excellent points, 24/7 metro, a girl can dream! Home rule act prevents tolls, wow, had no idea. As mostly a pedestrian I truly abhor cars (almost got hit today, even with a walk signal) for personal reasons and for overarching environmental reasons as well. Thank you for sharing your knowledge regarding tolls.
Wait, really? You can't toll incoming traffic? That seems like a weird stance to take when you functionally have to pay a toll to public metro in anyways. Do fastpass lanes count? What a strange rule.
DC specifically is not permitted to toll MD/VA commuters. There are no ez pass lanes in DC and future lanes can't target commuter routes.
Damn that's crazy. Thanks for heads up. More you know. Huh
Remember that DC was established as a federal city. And home rule wasn't established until after the MLK assassination and the white flight from the city began. They wanted to make sure the new DC government wasn't illegally taxing MD and VA so that specific restriction was codified into law. Also the same reason for no income tax across state lines/city limits in this region.
I'm very fortunate that I have a reasonably good paying job. But with Metro fares and parking at Metro it costs almost $20 every time I go to the office, which is a significant amount of money for an activity I don't think has much value. I've had people tell me "well if you didn't want to pay that much you shouldn't live in the suburbs." But I don't make enough to live in the city.
Do you live somewhere you could take advantage of the slug lines? Then you’d only have to pay for the metro.
>I've had people tell me "well if you didn't want to pay that much you shouldn't live in the suburbs." But I don't make enough to live in the city. You probably do though. Just not in places that you're personally willing to live.
While that's true, it leads down a rabbit hole of opinions about what people need vs. want. But in the end, lots of people are going to live in the suburbs and commute into the city for a variety of good and bad reasons. So the question is: How does the city want them to do it? They get what they incentivize. If it costs a person $5 to park every day (or $2.25 and an additional hour of their life to take the Metrobus) and then $11 round trip on Metro, then depending on where the person works they might as well drive in and pay to park. With even a single carpool partner, that becomes the easy choice. And I'd rather there be fewer cars on the roads. Congestion pricing would alter that calculus...and maybe make it so they don't have to keep Metro prices so damn high.
I mean, yeah, by that logic I can solve my commuting issues by splitting a one bedroom with 3 people and sleeping on the couch in a building next to my job. Exaggeration aside, of the alternative to the high cost of public transportation is shittier standard of living, then the high cost seems to be the issue here.
Not what I was getting at. There's plenty of affordable housing EOTR in perfectly acceptable neighborhoods. People like to pretend this doesn't exist when they say they can't afford to live in the city.
It has always baffled me that DC and WMATA wants to encourage people to use the metro, but makes you pay quite a bit to park at the station. It really gets to the point that it is more convenient (even with traffic) and the same price to just park in the city on a monthly plan.
You can find free street parking near Glenmont station if that is near you
Some people act like living in DC is cheap, but it's good that you have a job so you won't be affected by the fare increase. However, I don't think much will come out of it except for the purple line. The Metro will still operate the same way. I can understand if the fare increase was accompanied by longer train hours like it used to be when I was in high school, running until 3:00 am.
So firstly WMATA has nothing to do with the purple line other than allowing it to connect at WMATA stations. These fare increases cover general costs which are up everywhere, and while some of that is probably going to include the purple line accommodation, most of the fare increases go to all the other stuff wmata needs. If wmata had its way, it wouldn’t need to rely on fare increases to close budget gaps or really to be any part of their budget — in wmata’s ideal world, it would get sufficient, predictable, guaranteed funding from all its stakeholders and would charge minimal fares. But wmata has like 11 stakeholder jurisdictions who cannot agree in what each of them should contribute, so its funding is always an issue. If you want more services at lower cost then elect leaders who believe in that. Larry Hogan and Glenn Youngkin have been two of the biggest enemies of public transit in recent memory but there’s plenty of shame to go around.
I think it really depends on how you want to live. If you are willing to live with multiple roommates and no car, DC can be really cheap. If you don’t want to live that way than the suburbs are cheaper
3am is never going to happen again. Running the trains costs more than what they're getting back with sparse (paying) ridership, and the midnight to 5am maintenance window is huge for keeping the system working absent a third rail line
It's still incredibly cheaper and safer than owning a car
My wife and I already own a car. We are not on food assistance but just barely make it check to check. I take the train everyday with my work subsidy, she comes into dc 2-3 times per week and would prefer to take the train but 6.75 each way is much more than driving the already paid for Prius-c into town. Public transit isn’t just for the riders it is also for decreasing congestion for drivers. These expensive fares are not helping.
Okay so if metro didn't exist could you still both get to work and live with just one car? It sounds like metro is saving you from a second car. A variety of sources put owning a car at around $10k a year. Your wife's theoretical metro fees: 13.50 x 3 days a week x 52 weeks a year = $2106 So that's a savings of almost $8k yearly, plus you don't mention parking which usually isn't free. Or we could redo the analysis for you with however many days you go in. Finally, note operating a car isn't free. Some 2022 data I found from BLS (they run and/or design some of the largest consumer surveys in the world) estimates average total cost to own and operate at $.72 per mile. That's not a lot but still you shouldn't be comparing the metro fare to zero but rather the metro fare to $.72 x miles driven.
Yes, on days that I have to be at work at 5 or have to enter at my regular time on a weekend I have to ride my bike into work which I do. The only reason i use the metro is due to my federal employment which makes the cost to me 0. Our car costs us about 1700 dollars per year between maintenance and insurance and the cost in gas to get her where she is going is about 3/4 gallon round trip. It should be cheaper for her to take the train as that would disincentivize her and others from opting for their cars, relieving congestion for all who need to be on the road. I also can only use metro because I live on the red line. If I lived off of the green line I would not be able to take that train and arrive at work on time since the system only starts at 5 on weekdays and I believe 7 on weekends. Though I have no plans on buying another car we could be forced to do so if I changed jobs. As it is I would never sell my car given metro and our bus systems limitations and inefficiencies.
better than cutting service. Thank glen youngkin for being a scum fuck and not paying his fair share so fares have to go up
Inflation means they have to raise prices just to keep them effectively the same. That said I personally think it should be free, just like using roads to get across town.
Well someone's got to pay for it, and while I personally believe it should be a taxpayer-funded resource just like roads and bridges, I think the chances of getting all the regional powers-that-be on board with that idea are pretty close to 0.
If metro were taxpayer funded that would mean that local residents pay for it entirely and tourists reap the benefits without contributing
Exactly. People are so short-sighted when they say things like “make Metro free”.
Yep. Every great public transit system in the world is far from free.
Ok. So the same as using our roads to get across town.
Tourists drive the roads without paying much at all. That said, I think a $1 fare would be best. Taxes of course would need to pay for the difference.
Which tourists are exempt from gas taxes?
Anyone who fills their tank in another jurisdiction. What percentage of road development and maintenance is covered by the gas tax anyway?
"without paying much". Gas tax in DC is $0.235 a gallon. So driving 25 miles in DC will cost you about 23 cents.
so? More tourists taking metro = more disposable income for them to spend in restaurants and bars and shops, fewer cars on the roads, more people who actually want to come here (because believe it or not, some people do not want to vacation in places where it's difficult to get around without a car, and free public transportation is a huge selling point). I fail to see the benefit in denying ourselves a huge public service just because someone else might benefit from it.
Less cars on the road is all you needed to say, being a pedestrian is a gamble with so many cars on the road, not to mention the extra pollution the cars bring.
If they're bristling at the cost of the metro, how are they gonna afford the 200+ a night hotels and the 20+ per person meal costs? Lol
lol you know nothing about marketing. The $0 daily budget for transportation is how a lot of people afford the $20 meals and $200 hotels.
You say this as if there's somewhere else in the world that people go to because public transportation costs zero dollars with a hugely successful marketing campaign. Where in the world is that happening? Just wondering.
Well one excellent recent example is Kansas City, whose public transportation network is nowhere near as robust as DC's but the fact that it's free was still a key point in their proposal to host upcoming World Cup matches. [https://www.kcmo.gov/Home/Components/News/News/1898/1746?npage=8&arch=1](https://www.kcmo.gov/Home/Components/News/News/1898/1746?npage=8&arch=1) >In addition, the KC Streetcar extension is scheduled to be completed by 2025 to provide enhanced access to many of the city’s top cultural attractions including the National World War I Museum, The Nelson-Atkins Museum of Art and the Country Club Plaza. Kansas City has become a national leader in public transportation as the first major American city to offer farefree public transit.
And that's a huge tourist draw, is it? You know a lot of people itching to visit Kansas City because of their public transit system?
lol they landed World Cup matches. A fuckload of people are going to go there and spend an absolute boatload of money. They had the 2023 NFL Draft and 2024 Copa America matches. Being able to win the bids to host these types of events is HUGE and public transportation absolutely is a factor that goes into awarding these types of events.
And then DC residents will have the opportunity to be tourists elsewhere (reap benefits without contributing)
It's too bad it can't be privatized and profitable like in Japan. The only time they ran on the negative for a vast majority of public transit was 2020 into 2021 for reasons we all know.
All else being equal I prefer it be run by the government and not have a goal of profitability
But they're not equal. Using Tokyo vs DC: One is a continuously and rapidly expanding system with extremely low delay rates and closure rates and reaches almoat every single place in the biggest region in the world. It is extremely clean to boot. The other is a system that regularly closes stations for months, has massive delays quite often, and takes a decade to add a few stations and cant even serve tiny DC effectively. And the trains are nasty. It's not really hard to understand that a profitable system will be much better than one that is constantly in the hole begging for money in the budget.
Ok well that proves it.
SmartBenefit should go up with the increase otherwise a no-go
It feels like I am subsidizing people that don't pay for the Metro.
I feel like there's always going to be fair evasion no matter what type of gate you have there's always going to be that I think that's just the part of life at this point
*part of American life
I can understand why you feel that way (although things have gotten a lot better in the last few months), but the numbers don’t really add up. Metro’s total losses to fare evasion are under $45m annually (and that was before the new fare gates and recent crackdowns, so it’s got to be lower now). The annual contributions from local jurisdictions is $2.3b, with an additional $1.2b from the feds. Fares and other revenue are an additional $500m. No system has zero fare evasion, but even if we did it wouldn’t make a difference in what you had to pay (understanding that there’s a cost to get to 0 fare evasion). I am 100% behind a fare evasion crackdown, particularly now that it’s not a criminal offense,* but just understand that no paying rider or taxpayer is paying materially more due to fair evasion since it’s a very small portion of the cost to operate WMATA. *if people who endanger my life daily by speeding, running red lights, making left turns on red, and similar aren’t given a criminal charge (a ticket is not a criminal charge) then there’s no way it’s equitable to be criminally charging someone who jumps the fare gates. Civil fines for both. All numbers are from the FY24 WMATA budget: https://www.wmata.com/about/records/upload/FY2024-Proposed-Budget-1-6-23-FINAL.pdf
Personally, I’m fine with it provided others are also paying and are stopped if they try to evade. So, I’m not fine with it
They are literally addressing this problem *right now*. “Metro today released preliminary data showing that new, higher faregates are reducing fare evasion by more than 70 percent at the first stations where they have been installed, including Fort Totten, Pentagon City, Bethesda, Vienna, Mt. Vernon Square, and Addison Road. Metro is now publishing both paid and unpaid ridership data on its online ridership portal to provide transparency on the effectiveness of fare evasion reduction strategies and a more complete picture of total ridership to the public.” https://www.wmata.com/about/news/New-faregates-reducing-fare-evasion.cfm
Yep it’s been significantly better
Interested in knowing how they calculate the no-tap percentage? Do the Metro attendants keep count separately/remote video records?
There are sensors that ostensibly can tell when multiple people walk through the gate. In practice it fails in both directions often. You’ll hear a beep when it counts an extra person. From what I can tell it no longer can tell when someone hops over it like the old ones (sometimes) could. Of course the most theft is via the bus, so these changes arent in effect there.
If those data are derived from gate sensors beeping, then from personal experience, these results are wildly inaccurate. They should have the attendants count for a weekend.
what u/jeffreyhunt90 said. I'll add that I doubt the sensors can't detect people jumping metal bars ("emergency exit" gate, etc.). Or, where there's a new glass barrier, the clowns who climb on top of the fare gate -- alarm doesn't beep then
Not a fan. I think our main drawback is how expensive our fares already are compared to other subway systems in America (though it makes sense because I think ours is the best in America)
The tariff has always been interstate rail mileage. Unlike other subway systems which don't cross state lines. You have four plus jurisdictions that don't have dedicated operational funding for WMATA. This is also unique in the US. At least those tariffs haven't increased much in 35 years, only the base and max fares have increased with inflation and the bus tariffs were eliminated.
It’s necessary to keep the system running.
This kind of shit is why I voted for Walter OBrien in 1949.
Sadly to get funding we have to rely on governors we can’t even vote for
Charlie on the WMATA?
They should levy a tax to reduce fares as much as possible rather than raising fares
Just buy a electric bike, moped, motorcycle or a car. I got tired of there closures having to be earlier because of every 25 min train schedule it’s a bunch of bs I save more money now and definitely enjoy my ride I will never use metro again unless I’m going to a Airport
How is someone struggling to afford metro fare going to afford any of those things???
Electric scooter is cheap, ppl can afford it if they wearing nice jordans etc just don’t buy clothes and save up anything is possible just put your mind in it, if you want to keep struggling than have fun doing it
Even getting a simple bicycle saves a lot of time along with using the metro. It’s 20mins walking for me from home to metro and metro to office, I can cut that down to 3-5mins if I take my bike along with me.
you lost everyone when you wrote "just buy...a car". We have the 7K series back, the longest headways are 15-min late night on Blue-Orange-Silver, and only where they don't share track: https://wmata.com/schedules/timetables/
Than keep enjoying your commute and I will enjoy saving my money and time
saving money, really? https://newsroom.aaa.com/2023/08/annual-new-car-ownership-costs-boil-over-12k/
Well if you can’t afford a car a moped is affordable 100 miles, if you invest 3 bucks. Maintenance is lower cost or a electric scooter those are really cheap If you can afford a pair of jordans, some raybans, a pair of levi jeans and a true religion shirt than there’s no excuse. Just charge it at work and your set to go
https://a.co/d/04CG4uDs 499 for a scooter, how much you waste a week? A month? I would rather just get this if I can’t get a moped or a motorcycle https://a.co/d/0imTiWJZ Or a electric bike which is 269 which is more affordable than the other options
I'm fine with all of the increases except the express bus increase. The express bus going from 4.25 to 4.80 when the regular bus is going from 2.00 to 2.25 is dumb. Yes, both are 12.5% increases, but the express bus shouldn't cost any more than the regular bus to begin with.
in NY, MTA express bus full fares are $7, compared to $2.90. that's 2.41X versus 2.13X