If you haven't been paid for 5 months... you're still a freelancer.
If you dont have a contract in place, you're not on payroll, you're not receiving benefits of FTE, then you don't even need to quit because you haven't worked anywhere yet.
Lastly... there are no such thing as "shares" to a website. To a company or brand, sure. Commissions based on sales? Sure. But what you have been told so far is a lie.
I'd ask to be paid for the 5 months of work and if denied then you immediately cut contact.
If you give me 10% of your income every month, I promise to give you eternal paradise. Whatever you want, you got it. That thing you love: there. It's yours. Everyone you've ever loved: boom! There with you too, hanging out in whatever perfect memory version of them you have in your head. Forever!!
I'll pay you after you're dead.
This guy never negotiated any wage, he was promised a profit share or something so legally he's not even entitled to wages.
Seriously guys. Coding doesn't mean shit if you don't have the soft skills to make it in life.
That is 100% false in the United states.
Every employee is entitled to wages in the United States and you cannot legally do work for a for profit company for free (with certain exclusions like internships but that doesn't apply here because nobody is mentoring OP so they are certainly not an intern).
The question remains if OP is operating employee or a contractor/business. The answer comes down to the relationship between OP and his father's friend. It doesn't matter if they told OP "we'd like to hire your company" or "we'd like to bring you on as a subcontractor". What matters is how they've behaved with OP. If they've forced them to work in certain location with certain hours, they've given them performance reviews, they refer to them as an employee in emails, or many other conditions then OP is an employee and is owed a wage.
This is not an uncommon situation. Many employees in the US falsely classify their employees as contractors or freelancers to get around paying them and it does not always work.
OP talk to a lawyer, you could be owed back pay.
if you have a large portion of this code on your laptop, and you can prove you made it, youve got a case. any texts promising pay, any documents, anything. hush up, collect your evidence, and when you are ready, stop working til you see your back pay. if they even push an inch, tell them your on the phone with your lawyer.
I know it's your dad, and that can be hard... but if he hasn't paid you or given you any written contract... if he refuses to assure you with some actual honest to God money...bro, he's using you. time to cover your ass.
No contract being signed makes it look even more like employment and not freelancing. Employees sign offer letters, not contracts. They're not the same thing. You do not have to sign a contract to be an employee and you do not have to sign an offer letter to be an employee and you do not have to sign anything to be considered an employee.
If you're doing work for a for profit company the burden of proof on the company you are working for to prove you are not an employee and that they do not have to follow employment law like paying a salary. That is federal law on the US.
OP said theyre preforming work for a for profit company and they're not being paid any money. Unless that for profit company can prove that OP is working as a business and they're treating them like a business, they are protected by employment law and owed a wage.
For such a long post, it seems like we're still missing some pertinent details.
They agreed to work for months with no discussion of payment because...their parent made a comment?
dude, that's the oldest trick in the book: "work for us for free, trust us we will get profits and share some percentage". Just get out, I'm sure you don't enjoy giving free value from them. You're wasting lots of precious time. Be smarter than your father, I know potential profits seem nice but just quit dude.
Honestly I do believe that part because my father's friend is pretty involved in this company, he's even contracted one of the largest holdings in the country to work with us when the app is out. They're already working with them on another project.
But I couldn't care less about getting rich from this job, it sucks. All I do is take some braindead slots like mobile games and connect them to an existing backend. It's a physical, mental and ethical hell lmao
One problem with this whole scenario is your dad told you to take a job for a steady stream of income but you’ve yet to see a paycheck in nearly half a year. I don’t think you’d qualify for any income assistance (unemployment etc.) either so idk how you’re supposed to make ends meet “working” at this company.
Dude, it's your life, your choices. If it drains you that much, just quit, it's that easy. If potential profits are promising and you see yourself working on it (I'm guessing no), why not, make sure to sign some kind of contract, don't trust their mere words.
In 30 years ur dad will be old af or dead you wanna sit there and go glad i listened to him and hate the next few decades or do you wanna go do what you wanna do? Parents aren't all knowing and always right, they are wrong A LOT.
They're both manipulating you.
Just quit. You have to live \*your\* life, not the one your Dad wants for you!
(And if you've not been paid in 5 months, I can guarantee you're never going to be paid! Not even in some magical, mystical shares.)
That stuff is just distraction which takes away from the key points. The only thing that matters is that you haven't been paid for nearly half a year. A serious startup will have capital to invest and if it doesn't it's either a scam or some tiny little side hustle with less than a handful people involved who all have real jobs.
If they aren't paying you then there's nothing to quit. You can quit a job but jobs pay and this flaming garbage heap doesn't.
> Honestly I do believe that part because my father's friend is pretty involved in this company,
You shouldn't.
If it wasn't a complete crapshoot with no reasonable chance of success, they would be paying you.
If you were supposed to be getting paid and have it in writing, you should take them to court and/or report them to the NLRB.
If the only thing in writing is that you get shares and only if you work for long enough for it to count, you royally fucked up and unless you're one month off of getting your gambling chips or less, cut your losses.
If nothing is in writing, you don't have a job. Leave and take all the code you've written with you. It's 100% your IP since you worked on it on your on initiative and not for any person or company.
If they want it back, let them know you'll be happy to fork over your code with a written contract that you get back-paid at least 150% of your freelance rate for all previously worked hours, and in said contract you should be getting paid first before forking over the work.
Everything you have said so far sounds like you are being manipulated into being free labor for some morons get rich quick scheme that has a 99.9% chance of failure.
Now perhaps, with an actual legal contract, and with an appropriate share of the value (sounds like it should be a huge chunk of the company unless a dozen other programmers have been conned into this), if this was an idea you were passionate about and had the personal experience to evaluate the merit of and *you* felt it would likely be successful, it might be worth consideration.
However the scenario you have outlined does not sound very much like this.
Well I just wanna say that if they aren't willing to spend some money on a developer they probably don't have much faith in the project themselves.
If they can't pay you that means they also don't have investors which could be due to investors not having faith in the project either
If you don't have a contract, and they haven't paid you anything, you don't have a job. You're doing a favor.
PARTICULARLY on the shares piece. You need an offer letter, with a strike price, number of shares, that is independently valued and has a 409a filed regularly.
If you don't have that - you don't have a job.
So, how do you quit? Well, two ways:
1) Hey, you haven't paid me and I have no regulatory paperwork on my shares. So, I'm not coming in anymore or doing anymore work for you unless you start doing those things. Happy to talk about that if you want me to stick around.
2) Hey, you haven't paid me and I have no regulatory paperwork on my shares. So, I'm not coming in anymore or doing anymore work for you.
**GET OUT NOW!**
* You haven't been paid in 5 months.
* This isn't a job.
* You need to talk to your "employer" about an exit plan or how your "share" of the profits work.
* If you have no contract, then you have nothing.
* They are taking advantage of you.
* Quit this week.
**Go back to freelancing.**
If you stay, get a contract. Get shares.
But remember 10,0000 shares of a company making zero profits is still a $0 paycheck.
1. They cant tell you shit if they haven’t paid you.
2. Your dad’s reasoning was steady income.
3. Is it written that you will get paid profits? Profits of what? Is there a contract involved? What does the contract say?
This is less a dev question than a relationship question. You don’t want to tell your dad you’re leaving because it will upset him. Honestly I doubt he will be surprised. Also he might be less upset than you expect. If he’s responsible for you being there, and it’s not going well—that’s a lot of pressure on him. He might be relieved when you quit.
However, be honest with yourself: Can you find enough freelance work to pay your bills?
>Can you find enough freelance work to pay your bills?
I was. Until 5 months ago that is. I was getting more work than I can do at once even. I have pretty solid references from local barbershop to large corporations in my city.
I feel like my dad fucked it all up, I'm not sure if I'll be able to get back to my old routine when/if I can quit.
If you had some semblance of normalcy before that, and kinda know what to hold yourself to, then sure as hell you'll he able to go back in a short time. Maybe draw the consequences from this too, and you're on. Good luck
Not getting paid for 5 months isn’t the cherry on top, it’s the whole dessert. You are being taken advantage of and your Dad is a bad person for getting you into this situation, especially given his reasoning was that you needed to have a steady income.
You quit a job you aren’t contractually obligated to do by stopping any work for them and never doing any more work for them. You do this pretty much as soon as you realise you aren’t receiving any pay.
>And the cherry on top: during these 5 months I haven't gotten a single paycheck. They keep telling me that I'm gonna have a large share from the profits "when the site goes live".
it's simple, tell them ["fuck you, pay me"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U)
Sounds like the project is a dead end anyway. So the question is rather when you should quit. Either you quit when it falls apart or you do it now. Quit now, and try and get back to doing what you like. Life sucks when you live to please other people with 0 gain for yourself. The longer you wait the harder it will be to get your old clients back as well. The longer you wait the more you have to lose.
OP, just quit. Tell them that you have no desire to continue working for free, and that you genuinely do not enjoy working there. Your skills are yours to put to work wherever and however you choose, and it isn’t someone else’s choice.
You can respectfully resign, citing lack of income for 5 months as reason enough. They’re taking advantage of you, even if you do get a cut of the profits. That is not a guaranteed amount and I’m guessing there is nothing in writing. Just leave. Your dad’s condition does not obligate you to do a job you don’t believe in, get paid for, or enjoy.
Let me tell you a golden rule to live by, and it seems you're learning this hard and fast:
#**Never work for family or friends. Period.**
You can work WITH friends maybe, but never FOR.
When it comes to family or family's friends, I highly recommend never working WITH OR FOR. It just isn't worth the stress. It will ruin relationships. Sadly people will take advantage of you and it will taint your relationships outside of work.
Get out now before you get in any deeper and the resentment will continue to build and tarnish your relationships. I've given money back to people just to nullify a contract and eaten my time invested simply because it was a lost cause and I was deep in the sunk cost fallacy. Do not do it. Period. Get out.
Just stop. Let them be mad or whatever, you're being scammed. They're going to be upset because you're free labor, but you've gotta have some self respect and not let yourself be scammed just because there's family or friends of family.
If they can't support you working to achieve your goals they aren't on your side. If you stop and think about it, you would probably be supportive of your friends working towards their goals right? Don't get sabotaged by people who want to stop your success, especially if they're using you for their own instead.
What do you mean help you quit? If this is real then it sounds like you got 'played'/ guilt tripped into working for free. Just quit or stop showing up and go back to what you were doing.
Your dad and his buddy is treated you like a whore and they are the pimps. Get out now! And be seriously angry at your dad, or recognize he is an idiot and stop taking his advice, double so if it is reinforced by buddy.
It's their word or you have a contract explicitly written about profit sharing/shares? Otherwise you worked for free. Welcome to the real world where scumbags are everywhere.
Do not contact a lawyer before contacting the labor board. They won't help you if you have contacted a lawyer.
California Labor Board
[https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/)
Don't know where you are. Sorry.
Profits come with users, users come with problems, problems become your responsibility and the profit will be said to be used to get more users, which come with problems, those problems become your responsibility.
So you will be the most important person and least important person at the same time.
> during these 5 months I haven't gotten a single paycheck
Dude. What are you doing? You should have brought this up 4.5 months ago, and you should have refused to do any more work until that was sorted. One would think that your freelance career would have trained you for things like this.
You quitting will not give your father his one million and first disease.
> How do I quit from this hellhole?
1. Get the money you're already owed.
2. "Dear ${manager}, I quit. Sincerely, /u/mekmookbro."
3. Return to your freelance work.
"Hey dad, so when you told me to take this job for steady income, just know that i haven't been paid in the last 5 months." See the response.
You should "quit" regardless, but at least you'll know where your father stands in your life.
Op you are nothing but a slave in this position.
Leave immediately. But first hold the site and demand payment.
Your father is either an idiot or a scumbag. He deserves a hard slap in the face. I would never listen to a word of guidance out of his mouth ever again.
Not legal advice.
You haven't been paid. This isn't a job. You aren't employed.
The simple answer is stop building things for a client that clearly doesn't respect you or the time/skills it takes to do the work you're doing.
At best, you "might" see a return in the future. Realistically, it won't amount to anything, and everything you're currently doing is simply wasting your time.
The thing people don't understand about freelancing(or at least your father and his friend don't understand), is that you are running your own business. It's not steady because you're starting out. But given time, resources, and self investment, nothing is stopping you from turning into a full fledged agency and leading a team of other people.
As far as quitting, in my opinion, you aren't employed. At worst you're getting scammed for free labor. At best, it's a poorly run business, and shitty friend.
This sort of situation rarely if ever works out. And realistically, this only works if the developer is the one leading the project and effectively self investing to make it.
Example message to let them know you'll no longer be doing any work for them.
"It's been 5 months, with little to no progress, I've been unpaid with at best loose promises of future return. I will be returning to my consistent and reliable freelance projects, where I can be sure I'll be paid, and be able to plan accordingly for my future. If you would like to continue this project in a freelance capacity, I would expect to be compensated for my past time, before I consider doing any further work.
Best of luck,
OP"
You may find this too be a little harsh, and to be honest, I find that this should be more scathing. But also from a business perspective, it's best to not burn bridges. So you may want to edit this to be more friendly, but remain firm.
I hope your dad will understand, tell him you're not getting paid for that whole 5 months! Go back to freelancer and tell him how much you make from ranging. I'm the same way, i just cant stand "coworkers" but i'm a great people person in my normal life. Just the way I grew up as a weird person. Everyone has their own faults, you know YOU best so just be happy and you can even tell your dad, that you can try to be more open to that but be sure they pay you for sure
Similar situation except not really. I was working for a bathroom remodeling company, 100% commission based, no benefits, and trying to close leads *they* set.
After calculating that I was in the **negative** for the year, I had to cut bait and keep trucking (actually last Thursday I turned in my two weeks).
It didn’t feel good and it was super hard because I do not have anything absolutely solid lined up, but I knew I couldn’t continue to pay money to work for these people.
I don’t know if this will help you, but I just went through this and feel 1,000 lbs lifted off my shoulders.
You took a job you didn't want.
You've worked the job you don't want without pay for half a year.
This isn't a webdev issue. Maybe you live with your dad, or he helps you financially. Otherwise, your decisions here are solely your own.
I love freelancing, but my mum has a similar attitude to your dad: "I need a real job". So my solution? I got a part time job at a coffee shop over the uni summer holidays. I've learnt to make coffees, I like dealing with customers and I get free lunch haha. But most importantly I can still keep freelancing.
If you're actually putting yourself at risk by freelancing, maybe a similar thing would be a good solution for you. What wouldn't be is working for free on a "promise" that's for sure!
Best of luck mate and most importantly if you can get by doing what you love, doing what you hate and not getting by at all is definitely not a solution.
Only one thing matters: you haven’t been paid!!! The argument of steady paycheck is void.
If you were to receive a paycheck this would be different conversation, but alas no other point supersedes this one.
Alright so I'll tackle this from the perspective of the son who wants to keep the relationship with his father and the client happy while also getting you the hell out of there.
You explain that the project is lingering due to x, y and z. This is holding up other projects you may be working on (lie here if you have to) and you want to establish an end date and complete scope of work (I'd say give them a month...that's more than fair). If for whatever reason they go past this date then you will need to hand this off to a developer to finish the work.
I hope you have your shares or whatever in writing so they don't screw you out of that at the end.
So in summary - it is perfectly OK to go to them in a serious manner and tell them you can't keep working on this after x deadline...so let's figure out a way to go live before then.
Also please find an excuse to get out of managing the website afterwards. It really goes a long way if you can maybe assure them you will find a developer who could meet their needs.
I've been here man and it fucking sucks. You'll definitely learn a lesson here as most of.us had to...the hard way. But now you know there is a path to make sure everyone is happy and you keep your sanity.
Honestly you need to leave this job as soon as possible, the "when the site goes live" really means "if the site makes money, and 90% of all startups fail"
You still own all the copyright as its your work tell them either they pay you or you leave and they cannot use any of your work.
Trust me this wont end well if you keep doing what you are doing.
Sounds like they have been developing your back end. Stop bending over and tell them you need a retainer to continue.
Five months with no pay or an actual agreement for that situation is nonsense.
Are you living with your dad and paying rent? Cuz if not, it's weird for your dad to exploit you like that. This is the opposite of looking out for you.
My two cents as someone who's also trying to have a good relationship with their ultimately well-meaning yet overbearing parents - it won't be fun having this conversation with your dad, but you still need to. He won't be understanding of your POV until he has to.
The guilt from hurting or disappointing him (compounded by other factors like his age, health, cultural expectations, or what have you) is something you can make peace with. On the other hand, resentment is much, much more difficult and all-consuming.
You let this shit go on for 5 months? First week that went by without a check I would have said adios. Scratch that, I would have had a contract in place and would have probably taken something up front before sinking 40 hours into a website. It’s not even live? What kind of repetitive backend tasks could you possibly doing to a site that isn’t live yet?
File a claim with your states employment commission for violation of your state’s Payday Law.
And get paying work.
And don’t pick up the phone when they call.
If you are in the US (although this is probably true everywhere but I don't want to overgeneralize) you are being scammed, period.
The only way this deal could be considered even a little legitimate is if you had shares in the company already. The fact that they have given you nothing and are promising them in the future is complete bullshit. Legitimate business deals do not do that end of story. Unless they have given you a written statement with the exact number of shares you will receive and what percentage of the company that they are worth, you have nothing. If if you had that, you would barely have anything because they could close down the company tomorrow and you would have nothing.
Legitimate businesses pay their employees in salary and stocks on top of that. They do not pay their employees on the promise of future shares of intangible value.
Your father and his friend sound like manipulative bullies that have gaslit you into doing work for free. They told you that you should quit freelancing to have a steady income and they don't give you any income. Think about that.
the right answer is more often than not the hardest. tell your dad's friend you aren't working until you get money. you're not an employee. you're a minion. at least prisoners make pennies. 5 months without pay while still working for your employer is fucked up. speak up for yourself.
Never work for a promise of getting paid by any other means than a consistent paycheck. I worked in sales for years and have seen the exact same thing happen to many reps with bosses trying to pave their own path and even with well established companies. Sign a contract that guarantees pay.
you are being scammed. If you dont have anything signed for shares of the company, you have none.
Ask to be paid by the hour, or get out. Tell your dad you aren't a sucker and aren't working for free and whatever promises they make need to be written out, reviewed by a lawyer and signed or they are worthless.
Dude...wtf...I'm sorry but after not getting paid for 5 months you deserve what you get. It's literally God telling you to move on...I assume you were getting paid as a freelancer...and somehow having a steady job that pays zero is...the smart move?
I give you full permission to quit, but dude, have a little chutzpa and self respect.
Simply stop working. You're not even paid so technically there's no contract or agreement in place. Sucks that your dad is sick but you gotta think for yourself and your own life.
You are in an abusive situation and are letting yourself be abused because you feel trapped. That situation is really really really hard dude, be nice enough to yourself to recognize how difficult of a spot you've been put in without assigning blame.
Realize and accept that your deserve better and are capable of so much, and even had a good thing going before.
You've been abused and swindled. You can distance yourself from them to make it easier to get back to your old life, or you can actually confront them and tell them you have hated working without pay or promise of pay, and assure them that you mean no offense (or don't) but you will not be doing it anymore. They will fight back.
Be awakened dude, hold onto the future you know you deserve as you get out of this situation. Once you are out of it take a deep breath and realize you did the hard part.
Don't be anxious. Don't feel guilty. No matter what could have been, it has been as good as a scam and that is what matters. Not that they believe in it. You are your own person my friend. Take care of yourself. Don't burn out because people you trust took advantage of you without your interests in mind. They needed you because they were not able to create real value. It's a tale as old as time.
Get out!!!! Get out now and take your life back bro. Just because it is hard doesn't mean you won't thank yourself for believing that your happiness matters.
This post reeks of bs. Your father told you to work a job and so you did but you haven’t been paid? How have you survived? Have you made anything substantial doing freelance or are you really wasting time? If you are an adult do the adult thing and leave the job yourself. Your father isn’t in charge of you unless he is your provider. I could not fathom not getting paid for more than 2 weeks let alone 5 months.
Just saw your post history. You’re full of shit and I hope everyone sees. Get reported Karma farmer.
If it was me, cut your losses and GTFO. Send them an invoice for your time.
Tell this to your old man... "this job sucks, I was making $$ before, etc." whatever you need to do.... I'd describe a project like this as career cancer - even if you "finish" it, you're on the hook for everything.
If they're not paying you a salary, or hourly... do you have a contract that says how many shares you get in the company? Do you have these shares now? If the answer to any of this is no: RUN.
There's so many ways this plays out with you getting burnt out and having nothing to show for your troubles.
Leave, and delete the codebase on the way out. You worked for five months for free, then asked strangers to help you quit? Stop being a little bitch about it and stop showing up.
If you want to quit this job without the guilt, just find something else with a more steady and maybe even a higher income and then your father has nothing to stress about..
> And the cherry on top: during these 5 months I haven't gotten a single paycheck. They keep telling me that I'm gonna have a large share from the profits "when the site goes live". Which is the reddest flag if I've ever seen one.
What did you agree to? Did you sign any paperwork? If not you've been working for free and this is kind of on you. Freelance or not, never do work until both parties sign an agreement. And if you did that, then just consult your contract.
You already aren't getting paid. Quit and get back to paying freelance jobs. This is bullshit.
Also, this is a great video for freelancers - Mike Monteiro: Fuck you, pay me.
https://youtu.be/jVkLVRt6c1U?si=tDXnECytIeABkfsU
> They keep telling me that I'm gonna have a large share from the profits "when the site goes live". Which is the reddest flag if I've ever seen one.
Paying with equity is pretty common actually. "Saying" you're going to get paid in equity instead of having an actual contract is the red flag.
> My father has like a million diseases and I don't want to upset him but I just can't take it anymore.
Mhmm... just the person you want to be taking advice from for life and career choices 😑
Cut your father off. It's one thing if he himself wants to work for free and was contributing in some way, but he guilt tripped someone he's allegedly supposed to "care about" into working for free whilst doing nothing himself?
At best that makes him a fool (medical conditions responsible or no) and i'm inclined to think no, because no one's that stupid. In which case it's exploitation.
> How do I quit from this hellhole?
Depends, what's in your contract? What have you signed?
Ask him to have in writing what percentage are you actually gonna get. It might be worth it if u could actually get rich. Otherwise you are just being played.
Can you just push publish and then it's live and then can start making money?
What is your share amount? I hope you got that in contract, right now they are worth $0, I hope it's a sales website like Amazon so you can add 10c for every sales to go to your bank account
I’d suggest talking with some sort of honesty about the situation. In a certain way you could pinpoint how you got into to the job to have a steady income and that is yet to be the case
Best advice usually is to not care much about your parent's opinion on your business. Things have changed too much since they started working for them to understand the market.
Showcase your father that you are not good in this company. Showcase that freelance does more than a job and whenever you want to join a company you will get offers because you are doing the same work here. So if anytime you will see instability in freelance you will join a company for stable income. But for now you are earning much better, loving what you are doing orr kya chahiye ek job se. Orr jab bhi need hogi you will join any company. Tell all of this to your father. I think this will impact a bit for sure.
If that doesn’t work, act so dead, sad around him and he asks then tell him things are not good in your current company. Sometimes making fool of your parents isn’t bad if the intension is good
This might be a bit off topic but where do you find freelance work? Are they usually small projects and you do multiple or usually bigger projects that are weeks to months at a time? Are your clients usually people in your local area or country or people across the world. I’d like to know
Omg dude. You got shafted. I worked a 1099 gig once when there was nothing locally, and got paid monthly. But 5 months? That's ridiculous. Watch the taxes.
Have you considered discussing this with your father and explaining how unhappy you are in your current job? It may be worth exploring other job opportunities that align more with your interests
I can already tell... You sound young. Quit, that money thats suppose to come when you go live.... Yeah, thats not gonna be anytime soon or if ever. I've done the same mistake as you. I regret it, don't work for someone unless they can pay you or you really believe in the idea and have a resonable stake in the company. It sounds like neither of that id the case for you, so quit.
wow! you NEED to bail.
as a former freelancer if i don't get paid within 3 weeks on a job i leave, it's called firing your client. they're wasting your time and taking advantage of you. get out!
edit: im sorry to hear about your father. and no offense but he is not acting as your best mentor and you need to grow up and stop taking his bad advice. live your life under your rules.
I worked during the dot-com years. Lots of people got paid in “shares.” Most of them were working for nothing.
Those shares are only worth something in an exit event, i.e. the company is sold to someone. And in between now and then the company management can even change the percentage of the company your shares are worth, so they become worth less.
It is a scam, you are not being paid. You don’t even have to “quit,” just walk away.
Just start making incredible shitty code that doesnt work. Or just write in some functions that scrambles the code in random intervals. They'll fire you. You wont have to quit.
Do you live with your father rent free? Do you think the purpose of the website has value, either monetarily or morally? Are you gaining any work experience or technical knowledge that may help you in the future?
Never work for free. I hope you got something about your pay in writing, otherwise if the startup doesn't do well or fails you won't get paid at all since the 'shares' are worthless or nonexistent. Is your dad paying for your cost of living, food, and other expenses? I can't imagine being able to work a job for 5 months with no pay and not becoming homeless.
Also, if you've ONLY got a contract and aren't a W2 employee then what you are doing IS STILL FREELANCING, just WITHOUT PAY. You'll be liable for a \*lot\* of taxes on anything you make, assuming you even get paid...
This has an easy answer.
Talk to your father, explain that your freelancing is more profitable, and that you will continue doing freelance as it's more financially viable than this "job" he found for you.
Your father fell victim to the venom of sweet whispers of a scam that profits from free work. The worst kind of scam, because of how misleading it is.
Step 1: Explain to Father about your decision.
Step 2: Report the "business" to your local authorities for exploitative labor practices
Step 3: Go back to doing what you love.
There are real jobs in web dev. But they are very difficult to land because of the worldwide competition. Cost of living in different countries differ, so work can be offered far cheaper to those people.
Use your freelance work as a portfolio, go to places like dice to apply for jobs in the tech field - that's your safest best.
Bro, maybe this is not the place to ask the question... But I am a CSE graduate, with similar interests as you... I have been trying hard to land some freelance work for quite some time, with no use. I have tried upwork and fiverr, and tried bidding very low tooo.
I can develop websites, webapps and wordpress websites. Have experience with react, next.JS, sveltekit etc, which i have added, along with some sample projects too.. Do you have any advice?
I constantly get this question and my answer is pretty much the same each time. Every *person* and their *environment* is different, what worked for me might not work for you, or maybe it'll work for you 10x better than how it worked for me. So I can't guarantee anything, but sure, I can tell you what I did to give you some ideas.
I started locally. I built a website for a friend of my mom and charged half of the market price for a similar webapp. I said "I'll take the other half as word of mouth, you don't have to, but in case in the future you hear someone needing a website or an app, I'd appreciate if you can refer them to me." I wasn't expecting much tbh but they brought a lot of new gigs to me.
Did the similar (low price + word of mouth) thing to a couple more of them and at one point - when I was getting gigs constantly - I stopped doing it and started charging full price.
This worked for *my environment*, because they kept mentioning me to their friends, therefore bringing in more clients than I can handle.
It also worked for *me* because at the time I was living with my family and didn't "need to" make money and pay for my own living so I was able to charge as low as I want.
I also got a ton of job offers but until this one I rejected every single one of them (now I realize how right of a choice it was lol). Because I love variety, I love working on a different project each week, I love how unpredictable the gigs can be. One day I'm building a restaurant management app and next day I'm building an appointment website with cute puppy pictures everywhere for a local veterinary.
My goodness, what a microcosm of literal paternalism!
Your mom's connections give you well-communicated / reasonably-scoped work, treat you like a human, and appreciate (and pay!!!) for the work that you do.
Your dad and his ol' boys club demand that you get a "real job" that ... exploits the fuck out of you. Because have you even ***really*** pulled yourself up by bootstraps or some shit, unless you've out-scammed all the other finance/tech bros on your way to billionaire status?
I’m not a back end dev, Im kinda everything, but I would source work from local business meetings and meet ups , I work for 2 msp and I’m the lead on both of them on technical and sales side.
If you haven't been paid for 5 months... you're still a freelancer. If you dont have a contract in place, you're not on payroll, you're not receiving benefits of FTE, then you don't even need to quit because you haven't worked anywhere yet. Lastly... there are no such thing as "shares" to a website. To a company or brand, sure. Commissions based on sales? Sure. But what you have been told so far is a lie. I'd ask to be paid for the 5 months of work and if denied then you immediately cut contact.
If you build me a functioning, performant webapp, I will give you my land in Narnia and it comes with a unicorn.
No one's giving out land in Narnia *and* throwing in a Unicorn. Nice try.
Maybe they just had an unexpected overstock on the unicorns, YOU DON'T KNOW
Gotta hand them out before they expire. Might as well use them as marketing.
Have you ever tried eating an expired unicorn? 1/5 Stars, I DO NOT recommend!
Anyway, everyone knows Unicorns don't exist. Or wait, maybe it's an NFT?
I agree with Zefrem and, for what it's worth /u/ffdmatt, it's Narnia business!
Nah, that was what it was like under the Witch. Since Aslan done and taken over, he's really shaken things up.
Yeah, huge red flag.
How do I apply?
You don't apply. You have to wait until the magic fairy lands on your window sill one fateful night
You’re already working there, bud
If you give me 10% of your income every month, I promise to give you eternal paradise. Whatever you want, you got it. That thing you love: there. It's yours. Everyone you've ever loved: boom! There with you too, hanging out in whatever perfect memory version of them you have in your head. Forever!! I'll pay you after you're dead.
So edgy
I would not cut contact, I would sue for my wages
This guy never negotiated any wage, he was promised a profit share or something so legally he's not even entitled to wages. Seriously guys. Coding doesn't mean shit if you don't have the soft skills to make it in life.
OP will learn a life lesson on this one.
That is 100% false in the United states. Every employee is entitled to wages in the United States and you cannot legally do work for a for profit company for free (with certain exclusions like internships but that doesn't apply here because nobody is mentoring OP so they are certainly not an intern). The question remains if OP is operating employee or a contractor/business. The answer comes down to the relationship between OP and his father's friend. It doesn't matter if they told OP "we'd like to hire your company" or "we'd like to bring you on as a subcontractor". What matters is how they've behaved with OP. If they've forced them to work in certain location with certain hours, they've given them performance reviews, they refer to them as an employee in emails, or many other conditions then OP is an employee and is owed a wage. This is not an uncommon situation. Many employees in the US falsely classify their employees as contractors or freelancers to get around paying them and it does not always work. OP talk to a lawyer, you could be owed back pay.
if you have a large portion of this code on your laptop, and you can prove you made it, youve got a case. any texts promising pay, any documents, anything. hush up, collect your evidence, and when you are ready, stop working til you see your back pay. if they even push an inch, tell them your on the phone with your lawyer. I know it's your dad, and that can be hard... but if he hasn't paid you or given you any written contract... if he refuses to assure you with some actual honest to God money...bro, he's using you. time to cover your ass.
What you’re describing is not related to what the OP wrote though? In this case, it literally looks like a contract wasn’t signed at all
No contract being signed makes it look even more like employment and not freelancing. Employees sign offer letters, not contracts. They're not the same thing. You do not have to sign a contract to be an employee and you do not have to sign an offer letter to be an employee and you do not have to sign anything to be considered an employee. If you're doing work for a for profit company the burden of proof on the company you are working for to prove you are not an employee and that they do not have to follow employment law like paying a salary. That is federal law on the US. OP said theyre preforming work for a for profit company and they're not being paid any money. Unless that for profit company can prove that OP is working as a business and they're treating them like a business, they are protected by employment law and owed a wage.
If he got any money would it be market rate for his skill set however that would be determined or would it be minimum wage?
I wouldnt call it employment or freelancing. Its worker exploitation.
OP working for Nigerian prince
« You need a steady income so go work for free »… ahem.
Boggles the mind.
Could not be steadier.
For such a long post, it seems like we're still missing some pertinent details. They agreed to work for months with no discussion of payment because...their parent made a comment?
Theoretically this is a steady income now..
dude, that's the oldest trick in the book: "work for us for free, trust us we will get profits and share some percentage". Just get out, I'm sure you don't enjoy giving free value from them. You're wasting lots of precious time. Be smarter than your father, I know potential profits seem nice but just quit dude.
Honestly I do believe that part because my father's friend is pretty involved in this company, he's even contracted one of the largest holdings in the country to work with us when the app is out. They're already working with them on another project. But I couldn't care less about getting rich from this job, it sucks. All I do is take some braindead slots like mobile games and connect them to an existing backend. It's a physical, mental and ethical hell lmao
One problem with this whole scenario is your dad told you to take a job for a steady stream of income but you’ve yet to see a paycheck in nearly half a year. I don’t think you’d qualify for any income assistance (unemployment etc.) either so idk how you’re supposed to make ends meet “working” at this company.
Welcome to business, it’s all an ethical hell.
Dude, it's your life, your choices. If it drains you that much, just quit, it's that easy. If potential profits are promising and you see yourself working on it (I'm guessing no), why not, make sure to sign some kind of contract, don't trust their mere words.
In 30 years ur dad will be old af or dead you wanna sit there and go glad i listened to him and hate the next few decades or do you wanna go do what you wanna do? Parents aren't all knowing and always right, they are wrong A LOT.
Yo lmao this makes it even worse
Sounds like he has the money to actually pay you
My dad's friend and my "employer" are different people
They're both manipulating you. Just quit. You have to live \*your\* life, not the one your Dad wants for you! (And if you've not been paid in 5 months, I can guarantee you're never going to be paid! Not even in some magical, mystical shares.)
That stuff is just distraction which takes away from the key points. The only thing that matters is that you haven't been paid for nearly half a year. A serious startup will have capital to invest and if it doesn't it's either a scam or some tiny little side hustle with less than a handful people involved who all have real jobs. If they aren't paying you then there's nothing to quit. You can quit a job but jobs pay and this flaming garbage heap doesn't.
> Honestly I do believe that part because my father's friend is pretty involved in this company, You shouldn't. If it wasn't a complete crapshoot with no reasonable chance of success, they would be paying you. If you were supposed to be getting paid and have it in writing, you should take them to court and/or report them to the NLRB. If the only thing in writing is that you get shares and only if you work for long enough for it to count, you royally fucked up and unless you're one month off of getting your gambling chips or less, cut your losses. If nothing is in writing, you don't have a job. Leave and take all the code you've written with you. It's 100% your IP since you worked on it on your on initiative and not for any person or company. If they want it back, let them know you'll be happy to fork over your code with a written contract that you get back-paid at least 150% of your freelance rate for all previously worked hours, and in said contract you should be getting paid first before forking over the work. Everything you have said so far sounds like you are being manipulated into being free labor for some morons get rich quick scheme that has a 99.9% chance of failure. Now perhaps, with an actual legal contract, and with an appropriate share of the value (sounds like it should be a huge chunk of the company unless a dozen other programmers have been conned into this), if this was an idea you were passionate about and had the personal experience to evaluate the merit of and *you* felt it would likely be successful, it might be worth consideration. However the scenario you have outlined does not sound very much like this.
That'a not even a "steady income." Get outta there.
Well I just wanna say that if they aren't willing to spend some money on a developer they probably don't have much faith in the project themselves. If they can't pay you that means they also don't have investors which could be due to investors not having faith in the project either
Did you sign a contract with them?
That father simply envied so he scammed him into oblivion Gj, family as usual doing great things
It sounds the equivalent of your friend saying they have the “next Facebook ap idea”.
If you don't have a contract, and they haven't paid you anything, you don't have a job. You're doing a favor. PARTICULARLY on the shares piece. You need an offer letter, with a strike price, number of shares, that is independently valued and has a 409a filed regularly. If you don't have that - you don't have a job. So, how do you quit? Well, two ways: 1) Hey, you haven't paid me and I have no regulatory paperwork on my shares. So, I'm not coming in anymore or doing anymore work for you unless you start doing those things. Happy to talk about that if you want me to stick around. 2) Hey, you haven't paid me and I have no regulatory paperwork on my shares. So, I'm not coming in anymore or doing anymore work for you.
**GET OUT NOW!** * You haven't been paid in 5 months. * This isn't a job. * You need to talk to your "employer" about an exit plan or how your "share" of the profits work. * If you have no contract, then you have nothing. * They are taking advantage of you. * Quit this week. **Go back to freelancing.** If you stay, get a contract. Get shares. But remember 10,0000 shares of a company making zero profits is still a $0 paycheck.
1. They cant tell you shit if they haven’t paid you. 2. Your dad’s reasoning was steady income. 3. Is it written that you will get paid profits? Profits of what? Is there a contract involved? What does the contract say?
This is less a dev question than a relationship question. You don’t want to tell your dad you’re leaving because it will upset him. Honestly I doubt he will be surprised. Also he might be less upset than you expect. If he’s responsible for you being there, and it’s not going well—that’s a lot of pressure on him. He might be relieved when you quit. However, be honest with yourself: Can you find enough freelance work to pay your bills?
>Can you find enough freelance work to pay your bills? I was. Until 5 months ago that is. I was getting more work than I can do at once even. I have pretty solid references from local barbershop to large corporations in my city. I feel like my dad fucked it all up, I'm not sure if I'll be able to get back to my old routine when/if I can quit.
If?? You owe them nothing. Start NOW.
You gotta stop letting your dad run your life and put up some boundaries
If you had some semblance of normalcy before that, and kinda know what to hold yourself to, then sure as hell you'll he able to go back in a short time. Maybe draw the consequences from this too, and you're on. Good luck
Thanks a lot!
Not getting paid for 5 months isn’t the cherry on top, it’s the whole dessert. You are being taken advantage of and your Dad is a bad person for getting you into this situation, especially given his reasoning was that you needed to have a steady income. You quit a job you aren’t contractually obligated to do by stopping any work for them and never doing any more work for them. You do this pretty much as soon as you realise you aren’t receiving any pay.
>And the cherry on top: during these 5 months I haven't gotten a single paycheck. They keep telling me that I'm gonna have a large share from the profits "when the site goes live". it's simple, tell them ["fuck you, pay me"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U)
Sounds like the project is a dead end anyway. So the question is rather when you should quit. Either you quit when it falls apart or you do it now. Quit now, and try and get back to doing what you like. Life sucks when you live to please other people with 0 gain for yourself. The longer you wait the harder it will be to get your old clients back as well. The longer you wait the more you have to lose.
Thanks a lot. It really makes a lot of sense.
Np, hope it works out as well as it can!
I don't think Reddit can help you, TBH. It sounds like you know what you need to do. You need to have a sit down with your dad—no way around that.
Honestly, that's the part I'm dreading the most.
sometimes you gotta have that difficult conversation
Just leave. Fuck pleasing your parents. Do what will make you successful and happy
OP, just quit. Tell them that you have no desire to continue working for free, and that you genuinely do not enjoy working there. Your skills are yours to put to work wherever and however you choose, and it isn’t someone else’s choice. You can respectfully resign, citing lack of income for 5 months as reason enough. They’re taking advantage of you, even if you do get a cut of the profits. That is not a guaranteed amount and I’m guessing there is nothing in writing. Just leave. Your dad’s condition does not obligate you to do a job you don’t believe in, get paid for, or enjoy.
Let me tell you a golden rule to live by, and it seems you're learning this hard and fast: #**Never work for family or friends. Period.** You can work WITH friends maybe, but never FOR. When it comes to family or family's friends, I highly recommend never working WITH OR FOR. It just isn't worth the stress. It will ruin relationships. Sadly people will take advantage of you and it will taint your relationships outside of work. Get out now before you get in any deeper and the resentment will continue to build and tarnish your relationships. I've given money back to people just to nullify a contract and eaten my time invested simply because it was a lost cause and I was deep in the sunk cost fallacy. Do not do it. Period. Get out.
are you an adult?
I too suspect it's a 16 year old kid. A grown man can't be fucked up like that.
lol you been suckered
Just stop. Let them be mad or whatever, you're being scammed. They're going to be upset because you're free labor, but you've gotta have some self respect and not let yourself be scammed just because there's family or friends of family. If they can't support you working to achieve your goals they aren't on your side. If you stop and think about it, you would probably be supportive of your friends working towards their goals right? Don't get sabotaged by people who want to stop your success, especially if they're using you for their own instead.
You got bigger issues than quitting. How can someone let this situation happen when you already had some freelance stuff set up.
If you haven't been paid, you don't have a job to quit.
What do you mean help you quit? If this is real then it sounds like you got 'played'/ guilt tripped into working for free. Just quit or stop showing up and go back to what you were doing.
Wait until they pull the "this is great for your portfolio" card
Your father didn’t want a steady income he wanted you to make him money for free lol
holy shit you lasted 5 months?
you lasted 5 months?
LMAO!! This is a joke right?
Your dad and his buddy is treated you like a whore and they are the pimps. Get out now! And be seriously angry at your dad, or recognize he is an idiot and stop taking his advice, double so if it is reinforced by buddy.
And how much you want to wage, if that philosophized "big paycheck" ever arrives, dad's buddy with threaten a lawsuit to get part of it?
It's their word or you have a contract explicitly written about profit sharing/shares? Otherwise you worked for free. Welcome to the real world where scumbags are everywhere.
You are lacking lots of self confidence, sadly you just can't make everybody happy and thats something you learn with experience.
Do not contact a lawyer before contacting the labor board. They won't help you if you have contacted a lawyer. California Labor Board [https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/) Don't know where you are. Sorry.
Profits come with users, users come with problems, problems become your responsibility and the profit will be said to be used to get more users, which come with problems, those problems become your responsibility. So you will be the most important person and least important person at the same time.
> during these 5 months I haven't gotten a single paycheck Dude. What are you doing? You should have brought this up 4.5 months ago, and you should have refused to do any more work until that was sorted. One would think that your freelance career would have trained you for things like this. You quitting will not give your father his one million and first disease. > How do I quit from this hellhole? 1. Get the money you're already owed. 2. "Dear ${manager}, I quit. Sincerely, /u/mekmookbro." 3. Return to your freelance work.
Did you try the classic "F**k you, I quit"?
"Hey dad, so when you told me to take this job for steady income, just know that i haven't been paid in the last 5 months." See the response. You should "quit" regardless, but at least you'll know where your father stands in your life.
Bro I was laughing 🤣 while reading your thing. Hope you get rid of your current state.
You haven't been paid? Then you don't have a job. Did you sign an employment contract?
Op you are nothing but a slave in this position. Leave immediately. But first hold the site and demand payment. Your father is either an idiot or a scumbag. He deserves a hard slap in the face. I would never listen to a word of guidance out of his mouth ever again. Not legal advice.
You haven't been paid. This isn't a job. You aren't employed. The simple answer is stop building things for a client that clearly doesn't respect you or the time/skills it takes to do the work you're doing. At best, you "might" see a return in the future. Realistically, it won't amount to anything, and everything you're currently doing is simply wasting your time. The thing people don't understand about freelancing(or at least your father and his friend don't understand), is that you are running your own business. It's not steady because you're starting out. But given time, resources, and self investment, nothing is stopping you from turning into a full fledged agency and leading a team of other people. As far as quitting, in my opinion, you aren't employed. At worst you're getting scammed for free labor. At best, it's a poorly run business, and shitty friend. This sort of situation rarely if ever works out. And realistically, this only works if the developer is the one leading the project and effectively self investing to make it. Example message to let them know you'll no longer be doing any work for them. "It's been 5 months, with little to no progress, I've been unpaid with at best loose promises of future return. I will be returning to my consistent and reliable freelance projects, where I can be sure I'll be paid, and be able to plan accordingly for my future. If you would like to continue this project in a freelance capacity, I would expect to be compensated for my past time, before I consider doing any further work. Best of luck, OP" You may find this too be a little harsh, and to be honest, I find that this should be more scathing. But also from a business perspective, it's best to not burn bridges. So you may want to edit this to be more friendly, but remain firm.
I hope your dad will understand, tell him you're not getting paid for that whole 5 months! Go back to freelancer and tell him how much you make from ranging. I'm the same way, i just cant stand "coworkers" but i'm a great people person in my normal life. Just the way I grew up as a weird person. Everyone has their own faults, you know YOU best so just be happy and you can even tell your dad, that you can try to be more open to that but be sure they pay you for sure
Similar situation except not really. I was working for a bathroom remodeling company, 100% commission based, no benefits, and trying to close leads *they* set. After calculating that I was in the **negative** for the year, I had to cut bait and keep trucking (actually last Thursday I turned in my two weeks). It didn’t feel good and it was super hard because I do not have anything absolutely solid lined up, but I knew I couldn’t continue to pay money to work for these people. I don’t know if this will help you, but I just went through this and feel 1,000 lbs lifted off my shoulders.
Your father is taking advantage of you. It's time to admit it and go your own way. I hope he changes and you can forgive him one day.
You took a job you didn't want. You've worked the job you don't want without pay for half a year. This isn't a webdev issue. Maybe you live with your dad, or he helps you financially. Otherwise, your decisions here are solely your own.
Does your dad not know that you haven't been paid? This sounds like an ethics case where they're using your dad. Should be reported.
OP you been working 5 month free. You sign papers of any kind? Any legal agreements? Sue for wages, take everything you wrote, break it and walk.
I love freelancing, but my mum has a similar attitude to your dad: "I need a real job". So my solution? I got a part time job at a coffee shop over the uni summer holidays. I've learnt to make coffees, I like dealing with customers and I get free lunch haha. But most importantly I can still keep freelancing. If you're actually putting yourself at risk by freelancing, maybe a similar thing would be a good solution for you. What wouldn't be is working for free on a "promise" that's for sure! Best of luck mate and most importantly if you can get by doing what you love, doing what you hate and not getting by at all is definitely not a solution.
Your father and his friend are thinking like a boomer, dont be hard with they.
So you had to take the job, to have a steady income and your income is steadily 0? That's really sad :( I'm sorry you have to deal with this.
Its a joke, right? Its a classic scam against developers.
do what makes you happy
Wtf. I‘m just sorry. Thats a life lesson of a kind.
Bruh quit this job ASAP
I would get everything you're owed in writing, pick an end date at which you'll be fully vested, and work until that end.
Only one thing matters: you haven’t been paid!!! The argument of steady paycheck is void. If you were to receive a paycheck this would be different conversation, but alas no other point supersedes this one.
Alright so I'll tackle this from the perspective of the son who wants to keep the relationship with his father and the client happy while also getting you the hell out of there. You explain that the project is lingering due to x, y and z. This is holding up other projects you may be working on (lie here if you have to) and you want to establish an end date and complete scope of work (I'd say give them a month...that's more than fair). If for whatever reason they go past this date then you will need to hand this off to a developer to finish the work. I hope you have your shares or whatever in writing so they don't screw you out of that at the end. So in summary - it is perfectly OK to go to them in a serious manner and tell them you can't keep working on this after x deadline...so let's figure out a way to go live before then. Also please find an excuse to get out of managing the website afterwards. It really goes a long way if you can maybe assure them you will find a developer who could meet their needs. I've been here man and it fucking sucks. You'll definitely learn a lesson here as most of.us had to...the hard way. But now you know there is a path to make sure everyone is happy and you keep your sanity.
Dude.
Just stop going in. Tell them if they don't pay you that as far as you're concerned, you're not employed. Anything in writing? No. Fuck them.
Honestly you need to leave this job as soon as possible, the "when the site goes live" really means "if the site makes money, and 90% of all startups fail" You still own all the copyright as its your work tell them either they pay you or you leave and they cannot use any of your work. Trust me this wont end well if you keep doing what you are doing.
Stop enabling pops. Get paid or quit, real simple.
Sounds like they have been developing your back end. Stop bending over and tell them you need a retainer to continue. Five months with no pay or an actual agreement for that situation is nonsense.
Are you living with your dad and paying rent? Cuz if not, it feels weird why your dad has any say in your career.
Are you living with your dad and paying rent? Cuz if not, it feels weird why your dad has any say in your career.
Are you living with your dad and paying rent? Cuz if not, it's weird for your dad to exploit you like that. This is the opposite of looking out for you.
My two cents as someone who's also trying to have a good relationship with their ultimately well-meaning yet overbearing parents - it won't be fun having this conversation with your dad, but you still need to. He won't be understanding of your POV until he has to. The guilt from hurting or disappointing him (compounded by other factors like his age, health, cultural expectations, or what have you) is something you can make peace with. On the other hand, resentment is much, much more difficult and all-consuming.
Holy fuck, you stupid for not getting a contract between you two for making this site, once he gets the site it's wraps you get no shares
You let this shit go on for 5 months? First week that went by without a check I would have said adios. Scratch that, I would have had a contract in place and would have probably taken something up front before sinking 40 hours into a website. It’s not even live? What kind of repetitive backend tasks could you possibly doing to a site that isn’t live yet?
Non compete agreements are federally banned. I’d say run some sidework and if that’s sustainable run with it.
Implement a toggle that breaks the site until you get paid
File a claim with your states employment commission for violation of your state’s Payday Law. And get paying work. And don’t pick up the phone when they call.
If you are in the US (although this is probably true everywhere but I don't want to overgeneralize) you are being scammed, period. The only way this deal could be considered even a little legitimate is if you had shares in the company already. The fact that they have given you nothing and are promising them in the future is complete bullshit. Legitimate business deals do not do that end of story. Unless they have given you a written statement with the exact number of shares you will receive and what percentage of the company that they are worth, you have nothing. If if you had that, you would barely have anything because they could close down the company tomorrow and you would have nothing. Legitimate businesses pay their employees in salary and stocks on top of that. They do not pay their employees on the promise of future shares of intangible value. Your father and his friend sound like manipulative bullies that have gaslit you into doing work for free. They told you that you should quit freelancing to have a steady income and they don't give you any income. Think about that.
the right answer is more often than not the hardest. tell your dad's friend you aren't working until you get money. you're not an employee. you're a minion. at least prisoners make pennies. 5 months without pay while still working for your employer is fucked up. speak up for yourself.
You just got played like a fiddle, and it sounds like your dads running this Ponzi scheme
To each its own. I absolutely loathe freelance work because it has 0 stability.
Tell your dad that he and his friend are a piece of shit
Never work for a promise of getting paid by any other means than a consistent paycheck. I worked in sales for years and have seen the exact same thing happen to many reps with bosses trying to pave their own path and even with well established companies. Sign a contract that guarantees pay.
you are being scammed. If you dont have anything signed for shares of the company, you have none. Ask to be paid by the hour, or get out. Tell your dad you aren't a sucker and aren't working for free and whatever promises they make need to be written out, reviewed by a lawyer and signed or they are worthless.
Dude...wtf...I'm sorry but after not getting paid for 5 months you deserve what you get. It's literally God telling you to move on...I assume you were getting paid as a freelancer...and somehow having a steady job that pays zero is...the smart move? I give you full permission to quit, but dude, have a little chutzpa and self respect.
Simply stop working. You're not even paid so technically there's no contract or agreement in place. Sucks that your dad is sick but you gotta think for yourself and your own life.
You are in an abusive situation and are letting yourself be abused because you feel trapped. That situation is really really really hard dude, be nice enough to yourself to recognize how difficult of a spot you've been put in without assigning blame. Realize and accept that your deserve better and are capable of so much, and even had a good thing going before. You've been abused and swindled. You can distance yourself from them to make it easier to get back to your old life, or you can actually confront them and tell them you have hated working without pay or promise of pay, and assure them that you mean no offense (or don't) but you will not be doing it anymore. They will fight back. Be awakened dude, hold onto the future you know you deserve as you get out of this situation. Once you are out of it take a deep breath and realize you did the hard part. Don't be anxious. Don't feel guilty. No matter what could have been, it has been as good as a scam and that is what matters. Not that they believe in it. You are your own person my friend. Take care of yourself. Don't burn out because people you trust took advantage of you without your interests in mind. They needed you because they were not able to create real value. It's a tale as old as time. Get out!!!! Get out now and take your life back bro. Just because it is hard doesn't mean you won't thank yourself for believing that your happiness matters.
This post reeks of bs. Your father told you to work a job and so you did but you haven’t been paid? How have you survived? Have you made anything substantial doing freelance or are you really wasting time? If you are an adult do the adult thing and leave the job yourself. Your father isn’t in charge of you unless he is your provider. I could not fathom not getting paid for more than 2 weeks let alone 5 months. Just saw your post history. You’re full of shit and I hope everyone sees. Get reported Karma farmer.
Freelance is only freelance until your schedule is consistently full.
If it was me, cut your losses and GTFO. Send them an invoice for your time. Tell this to your old man... "this job sucks, I was making $$ before, etc." whatever you need to do.... I'd describe a project like this as career cancer - even if you "finish" it, you're on the hook for everything. If they're not paying you a salary, or hourly... do you have a contract that says how many shares you get in the company? Do you have these shares now? If the answer to any of this is no: RUN. There's so many ways this plays out with you getting burnt out and having nothing to show for your troubles.
You're being robbed.
"You haven't paid me. I don't work for scammers. I quit."
Leave, and delete the codebase on the way out. You worked for five months for free, then asked strangers to help you quit? Stop being a little bitch about it and stop showing up.
If you want to quit this job without the guilt, just find something else with a more steady and maybe even a higher income and then your father has nothing to stress about..
> And the cherry on top: during these 5 months I haven't gotten a single paycheck. They keep telling me that I'm gonna have a large share from the profits "when the site goes live". Which is the reddest flag if I've ever seen one. What did you agree to? Did you sign any paperwork? If not you've been working for free and this is kind of on you. Freelance or not, never do work until both parties sign an agreement. And if you did that, then just consult your contract.
Thats a scam with extra steps.
>How do I quit from this hellhole? Stop working. Stop showing up. Ignore your father. Do something that makes you happy. Do it now
Contact an employment lawyer. They can give you better advice than this subreddit.
You already aren't getting paid. Quit and get back to paying freelance jobs. This is bullshit. Also, this is a great video for freelancers - Mike Monteiro: Fuck you, pay me. https://youtu.be/jVkLVRt6c1U?si=tDXnECytIeABkfsU
> They keep telling me that I'm gonna have a large share from the profits "when the site goes live". Which is the reddest flag if I've ever seen one. Paying with equity is pretty common actually. "Saying" you're going to get paid in equity instead of having an actual contract is the red flag. > My father has like a million diseases and I don't want to upset him but I just can't take it anymore. Mhmm... just the person you want to be taking advice from for life and career choices 😑 Cut your father off. It's one thing if he himself wants to work for free and was contributing in some way, but he guilt tripped someone he's allegedly supposed to "care about" into working for free whilst doing nothing himself? At best that makes him a fool (medical conditions responsible or no) and i'm inclined to think no, because no one's that stupid. In which case it's exploitation. > How do I quit from this hellhole? Depends, what's in your contract? What have you signed?
Take control of all their accounts and leave then ransom everything back to them.
No contract, no job.
5 months without pay? Crazy
Not directly related but how do you find freelance projects to work on?
Ask him to have in writing what percentage are you actually gonna get. It might be worth it if u could actually get rich. Otherwise you are just being played.
Can you just push publish and then it's live and then can start making money? What is your share amount? I hope you got that in contract, right now they are worth $0, I hope it's a sales website like Amazon so you can add 10c for every sales to go to your bank account
Damn
Your dad sucks, sorry. You should quit.
From my point of view if they can’t pay you monthly they can’t afford to pay you, even at the end
I’d suggest talking with some sort of honesty about the situation. In a certain way you could pinpoint how you got into to the job to have a steady income and that is yet to be the case
Best advice usually is to not care much about your parent's opinion on your business. Things have changed too much since they started working for them to understand the market.
Showcase your father that you are not good in this company. Showcase that freelance does more than a job and whenever you want to join a company you will get offers because you are doing the same work here. So if anytime you will see instability in freelance you will join a company for stable income. But for now you are earning much better, loving what you are doing orr kya chahiye ek job se. Orr jab bhi need hogi you will join any company. Tell all of this to your father. I think this will impact a bit for sure. If that doesn’t work, act so dead, sad around him and he asks then tell him things are not good in your current company. Sometimes making fool of your parents isn’t bad if the intension is good
This might be a bit off topic but where do you find freelance work? Are they usually small projects and you do multiple or usually bigger projects that are weeks to months at a time? Are your clients usually people in your local area or country or people across the world. I’d like to know
Omg dude. You got shafted. I worked a 1099 gig once when there was nothing locally, and got paid monthly. But 5 months? That's ridiculous. Watch the taxes.
>I'm doing the same exact thing over and over like a robot that's technically what you went to school for, to be molded into a robot aka employee.
Put some ticking bomb in the code.
Have you considered discussing this with your father and explaining how unhappy you are in your current job? It may be worth exploring other job opportunities that align more with your interests
Maybe you could talk with your father. If he still insists, you can just leave everything. Life is short, and be nice for yourself
Do you even have an employment agreement that states you are getting shares?
Under perform and make them question your calibre and they let you out
I can already tell... You sound young. Quit, that money thats suppose to come when you go live.... Yeah, thats not gonna be anytime soon or if ever. I've done the same mistake as you. I regret it, don't work for someone unless they can pay you or you really believe in the idea and have a resonable stake in the company. It sounds like neither of that id the case for you, so quit.
wow! you NEED to bail. as a former freelancer if i don't get paid within 3 weeks on a job i leave, it's called firing your client. they're wasting your time and taking advantage of you. get out! edit: im sorry to hear about your father. and no offense but he is not acting as your best mentor and you need to grow up and stop taking his bad advice. live your life under your rules.
not a freelancer, just free resource
GET OUUUUTT
I worked during the dot-com years. Lots of people got paid in “shares.” Most of them were working for nothing. Those shares are only worth something in an exit event, i.e. the company is sold to someone. And in between now and then the company management can even change the percentage of the company your shares are worth, so they become worth less. It is a scam, you are not being paid. You don’t even have to “quit,” just walk away.
Just start making incredible shitty code that doesnt work. Or just write in some functions that scrambles the code in random intervals. They'll fire you. You wont have to quit.
Do you live with your father rent free? Do you think the purpose of the website has value, either monetarily or morally? Are you gaining any work experience or technical knowledge that may help you in the future?
I thought I seen it all but damn people 😂 folks out here working for free lmaooo
Never work for free. I hope you got something about your pay in writing, otherwise if the startup doesn't do well or fails you won't get paid at all since the 'shares' are worthless or nonexistent. Is your dad paying for your cost of living, food, and other expenses? I can't imagine being able to work a job for 5 months with no pay and not becoming homeless. Also, if you've ONLY got a contract and aren't a W2 employee then what you are doing IS STILL FREELANCING, just WITHOUT PAY. You'll be liable for a \*lot\* of taxes on anything you make, assuming you even get paid...
Bro wut 😂😂
As a freelancer you should k ow, never work for promises.
Dude. Get out right now. It doesn’t matter who that person is. You can’t live on empty promises.
Grasp* I'm pretty sure calling Op a "backend developer" is the same as child abuse.. He needs to get out of there....
It's time to go
What’s incredible is that this boss is doing this to his friend’s son.
This has an easy answer. Talk to your father, explain that your freelancing is more profitable, and that you will continue doing freelance as it's more financially viable than this "job" he found for you. Your father fell victim to the venom of sweet whispers of a scam that profits from free work. The worst kind of scam, because of how misleading it is. Step 1: Explain to Father about your decision. Step 2: Report the "business" to your local authorities for exploitative labor practices Step 3: Go back to doing what you love. There are real jobs in web dev. But they are very difficult to land because of the worldwide competition. Cost of living in different countries differ, so work can be offered far cheaper to those people. Use your freelance work as a portfolio, go to places like dice to apply for jobs in the tech field - that's your safest best.
Bro, maybe this is not the place to ask the question... But I am a CSE graduate, with similar interests as you... I have been trying hard to land some freelance work for quite some time, with no use. I have tried upwork and fiverr, and tried bidding very low tooo. I can develop websites, webapps and wordpress websites. Have experience with react, next.JS, sveltekit etc, which i have added, along with some sample projects too.. Do you have any advice?
I constantly get this question and my answer is pretty much the same each time. Every *person* and their *environment* is different, what worked for me might not work for you, or maybe it'll work for you 10x better than how it worked for me. So I can't guarantee anything, but sure, I can tell you what I did to give you some ideas. I started locally. I built a website for a friend of my mom and charged half of the market price for a similar webapp. I said "I'll take the other half as word of mouth, you don't have to, but in case in the future you hear someone needing a website or an app, I'd appreciate if you can refer them to me." I wasn't expecting much tbh but they brought a lot of new gigs to me. Did the similar (low price + word of mouth) thing to a couple more of them and at one point - when I was getting gigs constantly - I stopped doing it and started charging full price. This worked for *my environment*, because they kept mentioning me to their friends, therefore bringing in more clients than I can handle. It also worked for *me* because at the time I was living with my family and didn't "need to" make money and pay for my own living so I was able to charge as low as I want. I also got a ton of job offers but until this one I rejected every single one of them (now I realize how right of a choice it was lol). Because I love variety, I love working on a different project each week, I love how unpredictable the gigs can be. One day I'm building a restaurant management app and next day I'm building an appointment website with cute puppy pictures everywhere for a local veterinary.
My goodness, what a microcosm of literal paternalism! Your mom's connections give you well-communicated / reasonably-scoped work, treat you like a human, and appreciate (and pay!!!) for the work that you do. Your dad and his ol' boys club demand that you get a "real job" that ... exploits the fuck out of you. Because have you even ***really*** pulled yourself up by bootstraps or some shit, unless you've out-scammed all the other finance/tech bros on your way to billionaire status?
Thankyou very much for your answer bro.. I will keep trying.. Hope I get to your state before 5 months😅
I’m not a back end dev, Im kinda everything, but I would source work from local business meetings and meet ups , I work for 2 msp and I’m the lead on both of them on technical and sales side.
sounds like a fake post. options are pretty clear. work for free or don't. sounds like you need to move out of parents place.