Both have been considered. I’m worried the trucker is going to be a little too “toury” coming from aggressive road bikes. The straggler is interesting but I wonder if I would like the midnight special more.
You’d hate the trucker. I built up the trucker of my dreams with awesome components, rode it 30 miles and absolutely couldn’t stand how slow it was coming from a carbon race bike. I’d look at something like the midnight special. It’s sporty enough to be fun and still has a decent selection of mounts and can handle light touring. I regret selling my cross check for the disc trucker every day, but I was convinced I needed the trucker for light touring, never again
That’s exactly what I’m afraid of. I don’t want to get something so different that I don’t want to ride it, and I’m not planning on doing any real touring or hard gravel stuff. The MS is really appealing for that.
Geometry is for comfort and load carrying capacity. As far as why it’s slow, super flexy frame, wack geometry for being in a good position to put down power, heavy as hell, etc. excellent bike for its intended uses, I just didn’t need that much capability and didn’t like sacrificing performance for outright load carrying capacity. Shoulda never sold my cross check! It was the perfect inbetween bike.
Trying to choose between a Canyon Grail and Surly Midnight Special. Both are a completely different approach to what I want to build which is a sporty versatile machine. My options are severely limited due to my height (6’8”/203cm) so there are really only a couple bikes out there I can ride anyway...
Fair enough. I would say a 200 miler is a once a year occurrence, and I did it on the Felt AR this past summer and it about killed me. Much more frequently I’d like to ride this in the 60-100 mile range.
If you’re going to pull a Burley you’ll probably like the stability of a Straggler over a MS. I have a Straggler before it got stolen. It was a good bike for what you’re trying to do - enjoy cycling around.
Locked up outside a hotel in Ithaca, NY during June of last year. Good U lock and locked correctly. I think the SPD pedals gave it away. There were literally hundreds of easier to steal bikes around.
that stinks man.. sorry! did they cut the lock or something?
im tempted to buy a nice bike and rap it in some ugly tape or something just to avoid things like this
The lock was completely gone. The local bike shop thinks they used one of those scissor car jacks. It sucks that you have to make a nice bike shit to not have it be stolen.
I just picked up a steel Jamis renegade. I’ve Got to say it’s quite the bike. Feels playful and fast with workhorse ability. It covers many, if not all the bases for me. Oh and the Reynolds steel makes it lighter than a number of other steel bikes.
I vote 650b wheels with 45 or 47c tires. Similar overall diameter but more air volume and comfort. I have a Kona rove NRB DL to augment my race bike, and absolutely love it. Not nearly as fast but much more comfortable and I'm happy to pop off curbs with it, ride longer, commute, and even veer off-road. A fun comfortable tough bike that I don't have to baby like my race bike.
Comfortable tough bike I don’t have to baby is exactly right. How does the Rove’s geometry feel coming from your race bike? Im afraid of getting something too relaxed.
Definitely more relaxed, but turn the stem down and you can get decently aggressive. Slack enough for gravel and trails on my work commute but enough to get tucked bombing hills. Factory stem is short so it will feel a little different then what you're used to. If I was riding 95% roads I would probably go with 700c and slimmer tires for something a little quicker, but being able to ride curbs, grass, and pretty much anything without thinking is really fun and makes riding more recreational in a liberating way. I still ride the race bike a lot, because the Kona is not that and it has its place too.
I love mine. Plan on replacing stock disc rotors, they are trash. I also drool over the Jamis Renegade, if I got another that would be top of my list, my ancient Jamis mtb is a tank.
I was extremely close to going the CF endurance bike route, however I decided in the end it would be too similar to my race bike. If canyon made steel bikes, that would be something
Black Mountain Road plus would be a cool bike. Frame only, but you might be able to build one up if you could find some good low cost wheels. Are you thinking 1x or 2x drivetrain?
I’ve been curious about Black Mountain for a while. Problem is I think I will very quickly blow my budget with wheels and a drivetrain. I’m definitely leaning 1x but am not opposed to a 2x.
Might be worth reaching out to BM. They might be able to build up something with GRX 600 in that ballpark. Manufacturers get a huge discount on build kits.
You lucky dog! I’ve been wanting one for awhile. Are you having it shipped to the states by chance? If so, any duties or import taxes on a full bike?
oh did you do the custom color option?
It’s a bloody great bike. They’re quite behind with their shipping schedule right now. Mainly because shimano drive train parts are in a forever back order limbo. I have a friend waiting on CGR that basically just gets pushed back every 2 weeks.
Sounds like you’ve got all the right ideas. Check out the individual models geometries online, try and test ride, and find one you like and can get the best deal on. I’ve seen several All-City, Surly, and Konas that fit the bill up for sale in the classifieds for easily under $2k. This is in SoCal where bikes are high demand and ridden year-round.
I just bought a Waterman. Might be over budget, but man, that thing is a dream. It rides like you are on a sheet of glass, even when the pavement is crummy. And it’s responsive and agile and surprisingly light for steel—-mine is 21.5 lbs with saddle bag and bidons.
I run a trek crockett with wheelsets for road and gravel. You could easily get one sub 2k. tbh you get aggro enough tires and you can ride easy singletrack.
Dont own one, but my shop has them in stock and I like riding them. Handles like old steel, which I love. That said, its got modern everything on it (handlebars/groupset/wheelset), so it still feels new. Its a heavy bike, like you said, built for touring, so its definitely not aero. Would be a good trainer or commuter, wouldnt do a fast century, but it would be a fun century.
The state 4130 All rod is a great option especially with the optimal upgrades of two different wheel sets and a carbon fork. Also the wheels are tubeless ready and the torrenos that come with the bike work really well with tubeless.
It’s actually not bad at all. I haven’t put any serious miles on it but I know people who have and haven’t had any problems with it and for the money it’s a great buy.
> I’ve been looking at typical steel offerings from Surly, Salsa, All City, Kona, Jamis, and even State. My only hard requirements are drop bars and disc brakes. Trying to keep budget around $2000 or less.
It sounds like you've got most of the key brands and your criteria are sound.
I wouldn't shy away from stuff like Breezer or Marin, but those are somewhat niche and you've already named the big names.
I looked at a Marin Nicaso+ and honestly the unfamiliar drive train kind of scared me away. I’m looking for something that’s just going to be reliable and not as finicky as my carbon aero bike
I agree - I was actually thinking of the [Nicasio Ridge since it has 650b with a 1x11 Rival drivetrain](https://www.marinbikes.com/bikes/2020-nicasio-ridge), but it looks like that was discontinued after 2020.
Pick yourself up a soma wolverine, can fit big tires, has all the attachment points needed for multi days, frame is bomb proof, can take fenders if you'll ever need em.
And the geo is more aggressive than most steel plus road bikes.
Be warned, the sizing runs big. I'm 6'3" and the 62 is almost too big!
Man, I wish they offered this in a full build. As much fun as it would be, I just don’t have the time or expertise to do a full build of my own and would rather spend the time just riding.
Soma wolverines are nice frames, as well as their new purple double cross. All city GRX cosmic stallion would be my choice for a complete. I think its 2300$ usd? Worth the extra 300$ investment for what you get. I love my grx parts. The All city super professional is really sweet too with the sliding dropouts/paintjobs and if you want a steel fork its the way to go.
I love surly’s, I currently own a disc trucker as my crazy bar’d commuter and in the process of building a SS crosscheck but the MDS/straggler dropouts are just silly to me. Its surly trying too hard to be different and I think the negatives outweigh the positives over proper thru axles.
I recently came across Sour bicycles and they also make really nice steel bikes.
Yeah unfortunately the cosmic stallion GRX is $2600, which is just simply over budget for me. I’m into the space horse grx quite a bit, but the color option this year has me less than thrilled...
Hot take with the surly dropouts. What are the big negatives you find? I honestly didn’t pay it much attention. My LBS guy was basically like “yeah it’s weird but it works so 🤷♂️”
I don’t see the benefits of them on the stragglers beside going singlespeed without a chain tensioner. I prefer the ease, stiffness, and simplicity of having normal thru axles. Normal thru axles can’t slip like the straggler dropouts and it’s 10x easier to put your rear wheel back on without disc rub if you get a flat out in the field. If you’re a bigger person you’ll more chances of slipping and this can be very annoying as a bigger person myself. The disc trucker dropouts are fine because they aren’t horizontal like the Crosscheck/straggler. Damn, price must’ve raised because of covid.
The space horses are really nice. Id try to find some more photos of them on instagram from real profiles. Sometimes colours look much better in natural lighting/settings and they can grow on you when nothing else is in stock. The covid market this summer is going to be nuts.
Yeah I’m definitely not going to be running single speed, and everything you said makes sense. The dropouts on the midnight special are different as well if I recall?
Yeah I went to my LBS that has the space horse in the rose color. Just don’t like it, which is unfortunate. But it’s not out of the running, just has a lot of hot competition.
Yea I just sold a midnight special frame to a friend. They’re faux 142mm fhru axles. They’re basically oversized QR’s w/ allen heads instead of a QR head. Benefit is you can run 135mm if you wanted too I think but those wheels are getting rare these days.
Not sure about availlability or pricing in the US, but I'm fond of Bombtrack, riding a Hook EXT. Using it for gravel, touring, long distance endurance (700c road wheelset), bikepacking. The geometry has gotten more stack since my 2018 model. So the normal Hook with a 2x drive train will be closer to a classic endurance road bike. I quite enjoy their looks as well, unless you dislike external routing.
Surly straggler? Or even a disc trucker if you plan on multi day rides.
Both have been considered. I’m worried the trucker is going to be a little too “toury” coming from aggressive road bikes. The straggler is interesting but I wonder if I would like the midnight special more.
You’d hate the trucker. I built up the trucker of my dreams with awesome components, rode it 30 miles and absolutely couldn’t stand how slow it was coming from a carbon race bike. I’d look at something like the midnight special. It’s sporty enough to be fun and still has a decent selection of mounts and can handle light touring. I regret selling my cross check for the disc trucker every day, but I was convinced I needed the trucker for light touring, never again
30 miles is 48.28 km
That’s exactly what I’m afraid of. I don’t want to get something so different that I don’t want to ride it, and I’m not planning on doing any real touring or hard gravel stuff. The MS is really appealing for that.
what made it that much slower, the heavier frame? bulky tire? noob here
Geometry is for comfort and load carrying capacity. As far as why it’s slow, super flexy frame, wack geometry for being in a good position to put down power, heavy as hell, etc. excellent bike for its intended uses, I just didn’t need that much capability and didn’t like sacrificing performance for outright load carrying capacity. Shoulda never sold my cross check! It was the perfect inbetween bike.
thanks for the answer.. man, what is next on the list? any bikes in the future?
Trying to choose between a Canyon Grail and Surly Midnight Special. Both are a completely different approach to what I want to build which is a sporty versatile machine. My options are severely limited due to my height (6’8”/203cm) so there are really only a couple bikes out there I can ride anyway...
MS probably not the best choice for a 200 miler... I’d be fatigued, but idk your comfort level
Fair enough. I would say a 200 miler is a once a year occurrence, and I did it on the Felt AR this past summer and it about killed me. Much more frequently I’d like to ride this in the 60-100 mile range.
If you’re going to pull a Burley you’ll probably like the stability of a Straggler over a MS. I have a Straggler before it got stolen. It was a good bike for what you’re trying to do - enjoy cycling around.
Is it the longer wheelbase of the straggler that makes the difference you think? Pretty new to the burley world
Yes. But either one will be way more stable than a road bike. I’d go with the Straggler though.
how did it get taken?
Locked up outside a hotel in Ithaca, NY during June of last year. Good U lock and locked correctly. I think the SPD pedals gave it away. There were literally hundreds of easier to steal bikes around.
that stinks man.. sorry! did they cut the lock or something? im tempted to buy a nice bike and rap it in some ugly tape or something just to avoid things like this
The lock was completely gone. The local bike shop thinks they used one of those scissor car jacks. It sucks that you have to make a nice bike shit to not have it be stolen.
not sure what ill do... i have a bike stolen once.. but Praise Above, i was able to get it back... it was my old bmx bike.. what do you ride now?
I just picked up a steel Jamis renegade. I’ve Got to say it’s quite the bike. Feels playful and fast with workhorse ability. It covers many, if not all the bases for me. Oh and the Reynolds steel makes it lighter than a number of other steel bikes.
So many renegade recommendations. I’m definitely going to have to try one out
I vote 650b wheels with 45 or 47c tires. Similar overall diameter but more air volume and comfort. I have a Kona rove NRB DL to augment my race bike, and absolutely love it. Not nearly as fast but much more comfortable and I'm happy to pop off curbs with it, ride longer, commute, and even veer off-road. A fun comfortable tough bike that I don't have to baby like my race bike.
Comfortable tough bike I don’t have to baby is exactly right. How does the Rove’s geometry feel coming from your race bike? Im afraid of getting something too relaxed.
Definitely more relaxed, but turn the stem down and you can get decently aggressive. Slack enough for gravel and trails on my work commute but enough to get tucked bombing hills. Factory stem is short so it will feel a little different then what you're used to. If I was riding 95% roads I would probably go with 700c and slimmer tires for something a little quicker, but being able to ride curbs, grass, and pretty much anything without thinking is really fun and makes riding more recreational in a liberating way. I still ride the race bike a lot, because the Kona is not that and it has its place too.
For sure. I haven’t ridden one yet but a LBS stocks them so I probably will. I see the Rove recommended a lot, and the price point is pretty friendly.
I love mine. Plan on replacing stock disc rotors, they are trash. I also drool over the Jamis Renegade, if I got another that would be top of my list, my ancient Jamis mtb is a tank.
The Canyon Endurace have a comfy geometry, and they should all fit 35mm tyres. Recently bought one and I'm not disappointed
I was extremely close to going the CF endurance bike route, however I decided in the end it would be too similar to my race bike. If canyon made steel bikes, that would be something
[Unicorn Cycles](https://unicorncycles.com)
Looks a little expensive for my budget
Then All City is a good choice!
Jamis Renegade, fam. It's the sweet spot for... well, everything.
Black Mountain Road plus would be a cool bike. Frame only, but you might be able to build one up if you could find some good low cost wheels. Are you thinking 1x or 2x drivetrain?
I’ve been curious about Black Mountain for a while. Problem is I think I will very quickly blow my budget with wheels and a drivetrain. I’m definitely leaning 1x but am not opposed to a 2x.
Might be worth reaching out to BM. They might be able to build up something with GRX 600 in that ballpark. Manufacturers get a huge discount on build kits.
I just ordered myself a Ribble CGR 725. I don’t have it yet but on paper would suit the need I would think. Ended up being about $2200
Interesting. Not too familiar with those. I’ll look into it.
You lucky dog! I’ve been wanting one for awhile. Are you having it shipped to the states by chance? If so, any duties or import taxes on a full bike? oh did you do the custom color option?
Yep shipping to US. Not getting here until May supposedly. Not certain about the import tax yet either. I went with the standard color.
It’s a bloody great bike. They’re quite behind with their shipping schedule right now. Mainly because shimano drive train parts are in a forever back order limbo. I have a friend waiting on CGR that basically just gets pushed back every 2 weeks.
Sounds like you’ve got all the right ideas. Check out the individual models geometries online, try and test ride, and find one you like and can get the best deal on. I’ve seen several All-City, Surly, and Konas that fit the bill up for sale in the classifieds for easily under $2k. This is in SoCal where bikes are high demand and ridden year-round.
Are you talking Craigslist? I’m in Minnesota in February so the local listings are a little sparse
Surly Crosscheck is a great bike! I live in a city with crappy roads, I'm running 28s and a carbon fork and it rides like a dream.
Cross check is a great bike! I’m just looking for disc brakes. The straggler is for sure on my short list
Gotcha!
I just bought a Waterman. Might be over budget, but man, that thing is a dream. It rides like you are on a sheet of glass, even when the pavement is crummy. And it’s responsive and agile and surprisingly light for steel—-mine is 21.5 lbs with saddle bag and bidons.
I run a trek crockett with wheelsets for road and gravel. You could easily get one sub 2k. tbh you get aggro enough tires and you can ride easy singletrack.
Cool bike but looking for steel.
trek 520 is a nice ride
I didn’t know about these.. looks like more of a touring setup. Do you own one? How does it handle?
Dont own one, but my shop has them in stock and I like riding them. Handles like old steel, which I love. That said, its got modern everything on it (handlebars/groupset/wheelset), so it still feels new. Its a heavy bike, like you said, built for touring, so its definitely not aero. Would be a good trainer or commuter, wouldnt do a fast century, but it would be a fun century.
The state 4130 All rod is a great option especially with the optimal upgrades of two different wheel sets and a carbon fork. Also the wheels are tubeless ready and the torrenos that come with the bike work really well with tubeless.
I’m super curious about the state. How is the drivetrain? I know it’s their house brand and that worries me a little
It’s actually not bad at all. I haven’t put any serious miles on it but I know people who have and haven’t had any problems with it and for the money it’s a great buy.
> I’ve been looking at typical steel offerings from Surly, Salsa, All City, Kona, Jamis, and even State. My only hard requirements are drop bars and disc brakes. Trying to keep budget around $2000 or less. It sounds like you've got most of the key brands and your criteria are sound. I wouldn't shy away from stuff like Breezer or Marin, but those are somewhat niche and you've already named the big names.
I looked at a Marin Nicaso+ and honestly the unfamiliar drive train kind of scared me away. I’m looking for something that’s just going to be reliable and not as finicky as my carbon aero bike
I agree - I was actually thinking of the [Nicasio Ridge since it has 650b with a 1x11 Rival drivetrain](https://www.marinbikes.com/bikes/2020-nicasio-ridge), but it looks like that was discontinued after 2020.
Not sure how delivery overseas is and they might be a bit above budget but I’m a big fan of standert https://standert.de/collections/erdgeschoss
Pick yourself up a soma wolverine, can fit big tires, has all the attachment points needed for multi days, frame is bomb proof, can take fenders if you'll ever need em. And the geo is more aggressive than most steel plus road bikes. Be warned, the sizing runs big. I'm 6'3" and the 62 is almost too big!
Man, I wish they offered this in a full build. As much fun as it would be, I just don’t have the time or expertise to do a full build of my own and would rather spend the time just riding.
Call you LBS, any reputable one does full builds, give them a budget and let then go
Soma wolverines are nice frames, as well as their new purple double cross. All city GRX cosmic stallion would be my choice for a complete. I think its 2300$ usd? Worth the extra 300$ investment for what you get. I love my grx parts. The All city super professional is really sweet too with the sliding dropouts/paintjobs and if you want a steel fork its the way to go. I love surly’s, I currently own a disc trucker as my crazy bar’d commuter and in the process of building a SS crosscheck but the MDS/straggler dropouts are just silly to me. Its surly trying too hard to be different and I think the negatives outweigh the positives over proper thru axles. I recently came across Sour bicycles and they also make really nice steel bikes.
Yeah unfortunately the cosmic stallion GRX is $2600, which is just simply over budget for me. I’m into the space horse grx quite a bit, but the color option this year has me less than thrilled... Hot take with the surly dropouts. What are the big negatives you find? I honestly didn’t pay it much attention. My LBS guy was basically like “yeah it’s weird but it works so 🤷♂️”
I don’t see the benefits of them on the stragglers beside going singlespeed without a chain tensioner. I prefer the ease, stiffness, and simplicity of having normal thru axles. Normal thru axles can’t slip like the straggler dropouts and it’s 10x easier to put your rear wheel back on without disc rub if you get a flat out in the field. If you’re a bigger person you’ll more chances of slipping and this can be very annoying as a bigger person myself. The disc trucker dropouts are fine because they aren’t horizontal like the Crosscheck/straggler. Damn, price must’ve raised because of covid. The space horses are really nice. Id try to find some more photos of them on instagram from real profiles. Sometimes colours look much better in natural lighting/settings and they can grow on you when nothing else is in stock. The covid market this summer is going to be nuts.
Yeah I’m definitely not going to be running single speed, and everything you said makes sense. The dropouts on the midnight special are different as well if I recall? Yeah I went to my LBS that has the space horse in the rose color. Just don’t like it, which is unfortunate. But it’s not out of the running, just has a lot of hot competition.
Yea I just sold a midnight special frame to a friend. They’re faux 142mm fhru axles. They’re basically oversized QR’s w/ allen heads instead of a QR head. Benefit is you can run 135mm if you wanted too I think but those wheels are getting rare these days.
Not sure about availlability or pricing in the US, but I'm fond of Bombtrack, riding a Hook EXT. Using it for gravel, touring, long distance endurance (700c road wheelset), bikepacking. The geometry has gotten more stack since my 2018 model. So the normal Hook with a 2x drive train will be closer to a classic endurance road bike. I quite enjoy their looks as well, unless you dislike external routing.