This is totally unacceptable. If she tries to impose some kind of written discipline, I'm not telling you what to do, but if I were you, I would fight it tooth and nail.
Well, that's part of what I meant. But on the usual kind of form that is used for write-ups, there is a spot for an employee response. I've written one so I know that space well. That's where to start.
exactly...he should respond that if they want him on call, then they need to offer to pay him to be on call.
and then when they offer, decline and tell them you got drinkin to do on the weekend
I once worked at an airport for a recently created three-letter government agency. We had to park at the lot farthest from the terminals and ride the bus to the terminal. One day the bus broke down. They had to bring in a replacement bus to get us to the terminal. We were 22 minutes late for work.
Upon arrival at my duty station my manager proceeds to berate several of us for being late. Handed each of us leave slips and demanded we each put down 45 minutes of leave. When I received my leave slip my politely turned and walked off. Manager demanded to know where I was going. I replied, "I cannot talk to you right now because you just put me on approved leave". She then explained that I need to stay there and fill out the form. I then explained, "filling out work-related forms is a work-related activity which I am currently unable to do because I am CURRENTLY ON LEAVE.
I went and had breakfast. Came back, sat down and filled out the form. Sadly, I made several errors and had to start over a few times. Must have taken me the better part of an hour.
Not long after I transferred to another three-letter government agency at a much higher paygrade.
It’s clearly not company time. But if they made him do work duties while he was off the clock, that’s on them and it doesn’t matter if he was drinking because the employer did not provide any notice that he was expected to be constantly on call.
I fucking love that look on their faces when you tell them you'll need a few minutes to compose your response and that you'd like a copy of it for your own records. I've done that twice in my life so far, and it's satisfying every time.
I was a manager for years and I actually LOVED when employees took the time to reflect before responding to a write-up. I think, in those instances, the responses were more thoughtful, less angry, and usually very insightful. I also made copies of everything for my employees.
If a Manager gets freaked out by an employee wanting a copy of a write up, or doesn't want to give the person the time to craft a response, they shouldn't ever manage staff
The truth. I hate management but someone has to do it and the raises are nice. As a reluctant manager it turns in to how much can you get away with for your employees without stepping on the higher ups toes. Exhausting.
I had a boss try to write me up (years ago) for calling out too often, but when I asked where the corresponding written policy was on how frequently an employee could use their sick time, I was told it was an unofficial understanding. So I refused to sign the write up, used the response section to note there was no policy to violate, and then walked myself to the nearest copier before handing them back the original.
A week later, the employee manual was updated.
OR ask her when you are going to get the back pay from every weekend since you started the job that you have supposedly been ON THE CLOCK past 9 pm. She should be happy you even answered the phone.
So fun fact there have been successful cases where someone sued because of language in their contract or what their bosses send out demanding things like that. People win and get shit loads of back pay/overtime pay.
Not true AT ALL.
A signed write-up implies consent and agreement to WHATEVER HR put on it, and it's ABSOLUTELY used to justify termination of employment when denying unemployment claims.
DON'T EVER sign a write-up.
- your friendly HR rep
who knows if they have the number saved in caller ID, you shouldn't pick up work when you're not there but I've instinctively picked up the phone before, especially if they were drunk it could have just been a reflex
The burden still isn't on the employee for picking up the phone for either legitimate reasons (thinking the manager might be calling to cancel a shift, an emergency, or any other reason a job might call you, every place is different) or on accident (thinking it's someone else, reflex, habit, etc). If management is calling off the clock then they have no business sticking their nose where it don't belong
People really do live different lives. The idea of answering a phone call I'm not expecting while drunk doesn't compute. If it's not important it's not important. If it's important then I should wait till I'm not drunk anymore. If it's an EMERGENCY they'll call 3 times in a row and THEN you answer, or hopefully you have the numbers saved from those who would be calling about an emergency. I cant think of a single call from a random number that could be important and would need to be dealt with immediately and while drunk.
Let me add: Never, ever give any indication to your boss where you will be if you are traveling. As a young, naive 20-something, I told my boss that I would be at the Marriott in Denver, and of course he had to call me (waking me up with the 2-hour time difference) to ask where some silly file was that he could easily have found himself or gotten someone else to find. No good deed goes unpunished. As far as your boss is concerned, when you're traveling, you're going off planet and they can fend for themselves!
I used to spend most of my time off backpacking in the mountains, canoeing in the north woods, etc. I told them I'd be where there wasn't phone service, but without specifics, so I could literally be anywhere in North America. I'd just tell them that if they wanted to spend a week finding me in the wilderness, I'd happily answer their questions.
This is the correct response. Unless you have been asked to be available or know about an issue when you leave work and the expectation is that you are available, do t pick up
Never understood people who complain about work invading their personal life while also ALLOWING work to invade their personal life by responding to work messages.
I say this as a lead who manages a team of 25. Nothing is ever on fire that people need to be disturbed outside of work hours. And if it is, fix the system so it isn't.
Right? Respect your own time. I frequently answer Slack messages when I’m off the clock because I really like the team I’m on, but the second I don’t feel like doing work good luck getting me to answer.
I work under someone just like you and it is the most gloriously refreshing way to work. And they get 125% effort out of me because of it. It’s such a shame that the culture in the US is such the opposite.
TBF my boss of over 10 years has never called my personal phone outside of business hours and only then to return a message I left her. If she called me 10pm on a Saturday I'd be so confused and curious I would answer lol.
It really depends on the job. Some jobs require off the clock work and that expectation is built into the salary.
But yeah, if you are drunk/high/partying etc, just let it go to voice-mail. You are not accomplishing anything by answering a phone call while drunk.
The thing is, drunk me doesn’t make best decisions. Sober me would have let it go to vm, but drunk me was ‘let’s see what this b**ch wants…. Put her on speaker.
>drunk me was ‘let’s see what this b\*\*ch wants…. Put her on speaker
This is why you might be having the meeting.
When you're drinking, don't take calls.
So you drunkenly took a phone call and put your boss on speaker while out with friends on the weekend and repeating this back doesn’t register any unprofessional vibes off for you?
Edit: according to other comments you weren’t just drunk but completely blackout hammered
Edit 2: holy shit you’re 47?! I was 100% expecting this to be some green 24 year old. Yikes
She's not on the clock, she doesn't have to be professional. It's unprofessional to call your subordinate late on a weekend, and then acting all offended that they were out having fun.
Id say at the end of the day, the boss calling and expecting this dude to help her out on a Saturday night is still the root cause. Maybe not the most professional to answer your boss while drunk, but even less professional behavior from the manager.
This is the reality for many positions in IT. We do have an on call rotation, but some duties are in a certain individual's wheelhouse, so we will answer calls or texts when not on call. It's pretty rare that it happens, so NBD where I'm at.
"Hey, wanted to let you know there was a chemical spill at the office over the weekend. We aren't allowed in the building until Tuesday. The company is giving us the day off paid. Sorry for bothering you on the weekend but didn't want you to commute 90 minutes in on Monday morning only to find the doors locked."
That is the epitome of an email blast issue. It touches everybody in the workplace. If that's a phone call, it's a robocall to everyone in the company, not a 1:1.
Edit: A lot of weird energy from the comments on this. Trust me, I'm not a boot licker. My work-life balance is tremendous.
Stand your ground! It will be awkward but stand up for yourself... It's far more unprofessional to call out of business hours unless you have said call me anytime.
Even if OP said call me any time she can’t get mad at the fact that you don’t sit at home waiting for an issue to arise. However I would argue that OP shouldn’t have picked up the phone in general, this is why we have voicemail.
Drunk me doesn’t behave as sober me…. Did I mention I was drunk? Like singing at the top of my lungs in a bar drunk… and I can’t sing… (so I was told that also happened and there is video evidence. Could be a deep fake)
Yes, they cannot hold you accountable for what you do on your private time, unless, it directly intervenes with work or reflects poorly on the company.
The way you keep portraying being “singing in a bar wasted” as an all around great excuse for taking the call and not making good decisions is leading me to believe there is more to the story.
While you were not in business hours, you straight up fucked up by taking the call hammered. At that point then yeah it’s probably more on you now.
You’ve at least proved that you don’t have sound judgement and are unreliable. And yeah, while unfair, it will definitively affect your current role.
Fight it, but I would be a bit more realistic based on what most people are telling you on here.
This. If it’s not awkward then make it that way. Make sure she knows what she did isn’t acceptable and you’ll do as you please with your time off. If not then you should be expecting pay for when you’re called outside of normal work hours.
Despite what nearly everyone on this thread is telling you, don't go into that meeting with guns blazing on Monday.
"Hey, sorry I'm not available to help on weekends. I'm sure you were under some serious pressure or you wouldn't have called me because I know you really want your employees to have a work/life balance.
I've already taken a look at those files and everything checks out on my end.
How else can I help?"
All I'm saying, is unless you have another job lined up, you need to be a bit delicate here. Once you've secured a new role, you can rip your boss a new one in the exit interview.
Whenever I read responses like this I assume that you are either young or fairly low on the ladder. Both are absolutely fine, but if you want to start a business and knock it out of the park or if you want to climb the ole corporate ladder you have to play some politics and occasionally apologize for stuff that isn’t your fault. Again, if that doesn’t interest you than by all means there is no shame in standing your ground, but many people on Reddit want to stand their ground and bully their bosses but then get upset because they’re being left behind and not making as much money as they feel they should. Promotions and raises are not based entirely on merit and hard work.
Saying sorry, it an admission of guilt, and could lead to disciplinary actions. Depends on the country, but still, don't say you are sorry. Excuse yourself, but don't say your sorry.
This is the best response. People here are seeming to forget the political side of a job. OP shouldn’t have picked up the phone if drunk and explicitly said they were drunk. The boss has the upper hand here.
The unprofessional aspect is telling your boss you were wasted. Why didn't you just say you were out with friends bro? 😂
(EDIT: People seem to not be understanding what I'm saying. It isn't unprofessional as an adult to be drunk on the weekend, but, OP himself said "I was suuuuuperr drunk," which implies that he maybe didn't communicate that he was drinking in the most professional way. Boss shouldn't have been calling but OP probably didn't convey his inability to help in the best way for when talking to one's boss.)
There are some things you just don't say, some things you don't say to certain types of people, and some things you don't say to particular people. OP's response to their boss has at least one statement in 2 of those categories.
Plus: there are some things that should be paired together when dealing with certain people. In this instance: "I can't help you" should have been paired with "right now" AND "but, call me again and I can help you then"
Ultimately, though, having been drunk, OP should have just let the call go to voice-mail, especially if they knew it was from their boss OR from the office at all.
When my phone rings, I generally answer it - if for no other reason than because I'm curious. As was stated earlier, there is no on call component to this person's job. Suggesting another inappropriate time for work to get a hold of them (because they're not on-shift then either) seems somewhat pointless. It also would invite the employer to further disturb this person's free time. In fact they are drunk, may also in and of itself provide its own explanation any curtness or flippant sounding talk. They don't need to know what kind of beer you were drinking or how shit faced you really are, but letting them know that you're impaired by alcohol is not a taboo subject. The fact that you think that it should be treated as such is disturbing to me.
Nah, I reject your false puritanism as someone who actually worked an on the call job. Admitting where you are and whether you can respond based on your condition is part of the process- and although OP waa not on call her boss asked her for help and she told her honestly im not home and even if I came home I cant help you.
Telling your boss you're drunk when you're out drinking on a weekend on a day off isnt unprofessional its totally normal- now if youre so drunk you cant speak properly or control yourself thats a different issue. No way for OP to know that if they didn't say they were drunk that their boss wouldn't have just asked them to come home to help anyways.
It is unprofessional as a manager to call on off time AT NIGHT, ON A WEEKEND! That is text territory unless it is an emergency even when youre on call. If what op says is 100% true then there is no defense.
Yeah, I’m not sure it’s great to say “yoooooo…I’m too drunk to help yooouuuu” to your boss even off the clock. That being said, it’s maybe a little awkward but the boss is still wrong to ding OP about it.
in the situation where its like 9 at night with your freinds and its your day off i think its fine, practically everyone drinks it isnt some taboo thing
It’s not really a violation unless there is a law I’m not aware of or a contract in place that states you are expected to be on call or expectations concerning controlled substances like weed or alcohol (ex: wife has signed a contract that says she can’t smoke weed while employed, even though it’s legal).
It’s just really shitty to call someone on their personal time and expect them to drop everything to fix a problem even though they aren’t on call.
This is the correct question and what’s causing the whole problem for OP. Totally unnecessary to say and shows poor judgement. Better off not answering at all.
I hope you tell her on Monday how highly unprofessional it is to be in charge, not know what you're doing AND have to call for help. *That's* unprofessional. You're free time is not her time.
Yes, but he isn't being criticized for not being available, he's being criticized for taking a work call while drunk. As he wasn't on call and there was no understanding he would be available to support, he would have been fine just not answering.
I had a boss who used to call me during my off hours. Next time I submitted payroll, I included those after hour work calls. Guess what? He never called me outside of work again.
Why would you answer a work call while drunk? Why would you say you were drunk? I can see her point in saying you were unprofessional because you took a work call when you were drunk and used that as an excuse.
You weren't home and didn't have access. That is enough of an excuse. You were at a planned event and it was too loud to take a phone call, again good enough.
But telling your boss your too drunk to help, that isn't information you needed to add.
If that is the conversation, then fine. But if it is that you shouldn't be drinking incase she calls. Nope, doesn't work that way. Unless you have a contract or some type of laws prohibiting you from drinking (surgeon, pilot, etc) then they can't do anything about it.
I had a boss like this - they rung on a saturday night at 11pm when I was out at a night club.
They gave me a dressing down on Monday, I gave them a serve back and also said they don't pay me to be on call and I didn't earn enough to care.
I resigned shortly after - they were a nightmare to work for.
Find a new job!
Double check your employee handbook and any employment contract you have, see if there’s anything in there that can help you
Ask you to show you where it says you’re not allowed to have fun in your free time
1) do not answer your work phone after hours
2) do not answer your work phone drunk
3) do not tell anyone at work you are drunk
Standard protocols for a solid 40 years in the work force
My boss called me one day on my day off. I answered the phone "Hiya, Boss Be warned right now, I'll do what I can but I'm rather stoned and mildly intoxicated"
She said "Never mind, we'll talk on Monday. Enjoy your weekend"
My boss is great.
It’s fine to blame the victim here. The boss sounds like an AH, but why answer? Furthermore, don’t tell a supervisor you’re intoxicated. You’re free to do what you want on your own time, but that’s just a childish, foolish thing to tell someone you report to.
OP is not a victim lmao. Victim of what? OP’s boss probably started the convo saying “hey, I’m really sorry to bug you on the weekend but..” and then OP inexplicably decided to disclose that they were intoxicated and couldn’t help, despite the fact that they answered the phone! We have no clue what industry OP is in, whether they’re exempt or non-exempt, whether they’re vital to operations or highly compensated, etc. All of these factors are crucial in determining the level of unprofessionalism in this situation. But OP is definitely not a victim.
Unless you have some sort of written contract and are compensated for being on call 24/7 they don’t own you on your own time. Her comments are ridiculous. If she tries to discipline you for this take it to someone over her head, HR, the state bureau of labor and industry, whatever applies
She probably meant telling her that you were drunk was unprofessional. You can't be too honest with people like her, should have said "I must apologize, I'm entirely unavailable at this moment. I'm more than happy to assist you during working hours" /s
Don't answer your work phone on your weekend. Nurses get called into work all the time. The hospital makes it sound like an emergency. The only way out of it is to say you're loaded. Then they never forget you said you were loaded. Don't pick up the phone.
Besides that, how much do you like this job? If you like your job, don't mouth off to this lady. She absolutely has no right to call you on your weekend. But "go to hell" may not put you in line for a promotion. Tell her you were at a bachelor party or some other one-time event. Then don't discuss your personal life anymore. It sounds like she wants to dress you down. Say as little as possible. You can always address what she says later. Nobody ever got in deeper shit by shutting up. BUT BUT BUT: It's inappropriate for her to call you at night. Then she wants to see you Monday? Is she sexually harassing you? If the genders were switched, that's what it would look like. Listen to her carefully on Monday so you get a clearer picture of what's going on. If It's sexual harassment, consider filing a complaint with HR. The way this works is she'll treat you like shit unless you play ball. She won't say this directly. It's all "Let's be friends", " If you'd like to be considered for a promotion" and such hinting around. It's degrading. That's why sexual harassment is against the law.
Maybe it was unprofessional to say you were drunk, you could have left it at ‘unavailable to help at the moment’ Pro tip- don’t answer work calls when you aren’t working.
This is a life lesson for you. You can do whatever you want on your off time, but don't volunteer that you're drunk to your boss.
It's appropriate to think that it's not acceptable for your boss to call you on the weekends. A reasonable response in the moment would have been to ignore the call. If they make a habit of it you can raise a point about that in a professional way. You can say that you expect to not be called, or that you expect to be compensated for working outside of your hours. A good place to handle these concerns would be in a meeting or email.
At no point should you ever say "I'm drunk" to your boss on the phone. Saying this is unprofessional, like it or not. It's not that you were unavailable, and it's not even that you were drunk. It's that you overshared unnecessary information.
She shouldn’t have been calling you on your off time but yes it is unprofessional to tell her you can’t help because you are super drunk. Next time don’t answer and then when you are sober tell her that you don’t have access to your computer and will take a look Monday morning.
Is it possible that you were very drunk and very unprofessional like she said? You don't have to be on call, but you still can't call your boss "Ms. Sugar Boobs" even on the phone on the weekend during your time off.
I doubt that happened, I'm just exaggerating for effect, but the point is solid. If a boss calls you about work, and you answer, it is a work call. You don't have to DO work on your off time, but there is still a reasonable decorum to be observed during the conversation.
I'm not talking about legal obligations, just basic professionalism.
It is my practice that when I receive an after hours call from supervisors, I believe it is appropriate to speak to them like I would at work. That doesn't give them any special rights to impose upon me to do anything during my off time, it just addresses my comportment during the conversation. That isn't the law, you don't have to follow that; it makes work easier for me.
Just start the meeting by saying “I’m so happy you wanted to set up this meeting to apologize for calling me on my personal number when I’m never supposed to be working on the weekend. It shows a lot of professionalism on your part that you recognized your lapse in judgment.”
That's when you let them know that your not an on-call employee and that you had no notice that you may be requested on your day off.
My boss argued with me once about me not wanting to work on my days off, and used colorful language to say "You work for us. We own you." I told my boss "No one owns me. You pay for my time and attention. If you want me to work on *my* time then you have to make it worth it to me." The boss tried the same bullshit "You get more hours, you get paid more." To which I explained you can't sell something that I would already be getting. Sell me something that makes it worth my time. I've gotten free dinners for me and my mom, and I have had a shit load of mountain dew all at my bosses expense. Don't let bosses or companies think they own you or that they can sell you something you would already be getting. Make them hire you again, but don't demand the world keep it simple 😉.
The first response you have to anything your nut job boss says is “How dare you call me on my personal phone on a Saturday night about work.” Then watch the light fade from her eyes.
What is unprofessional is getting called by your boss at 9pm on a Saturday expected to do work for free.
Who the hell does she think she is expecting you to give her your time off the clock? Ridiculous.
This rule has helped me and I had learned it from a lady in her 50s when I was in my very early 20s
“If I’m scheduled off and you’re calling me .I’m not answering .there’s plenty of other workers and mangers to cover . “
And for someone who couldn’t say no this has help me a lot with setting work boundaries.
I once told my manager I had been drinking so couldn't come in because someone walked out. She told me to come anyways. I also had to come into work after taking 5 or more sleeping pills cause someone... you guessed it.. quit over text. I had just got off my other job and was going to sleep and saw the text and knew I was about to be called to come in. I did. While leaning on the cashier register counter I was told "you got time to lean, you got time to clean". She never gave a shit about all the favors I did for her. She never treated me good. Lesson learned.
She obviously thinks that she just owns you 24/7. My way of dealing with this would be to attend the meeting and say as little as possible while smiling and nodding. She can have her narcissistic rant but she can't write you up for what you were doing in your personal time.
Walk into the meeting as if it's a negotiation of your on-call/standby rates. Play dumb when she tries to shame you for having a personal life, and try to subtly shift the shame onto her for not rightfully compensating you for on-call time. Hopefully that shuts her up.
There are some wild responses on this post. If you're not paid to be on call and the boss calls you during off hours...don't answer the phone. If you opt to answer the phone, don't tell her your drunk, jfc. It's not unprofessional to be drunk on the weekend but it unprofessional to tell you boss that you are. Like, wtf? 😆
It's insane how people are saying to file harassment complaints, the boss is a loser for asking for help, etc.
It explains a lot when people think basic professionalism is such a high demand. lol
Calling on weekend is annoying but not a huge issue if it’s occasional and she really needs help. What is an issue is chastising you for being drunk in on off hours. You have a right to do what you want off the clock. If she doesn’t agree with your lifestyle that’s too bad.
She probably felt pissed off you rejected her request and it damaged her ego.
Fuck her! Don't let her boss you around nevermind dictate your personal life. Isn't calling you during your time off considered harassment??
First mistake was answering your phone. On Monday I would probably laugh during the meeting. She doesn’t get to dictate what you do while outside work.
I will say it again....WHY are you answering your phone when someone from work calls you on your day off?
Nothing good ever comes of this.
Don't do it.
This is totally unacceptable. If she tries to impose some kind of written discipline, I'm not telling you what to do, but if I were you, I would fight it tooth and nail.
The first step is not to sign any write up she might give.
Well, that's part of what I meant. But on the usual kind of form that is used for write-ups, there is a spot for an employee response. I've written one so I know that space well. That's where to start.
I believe the proper response is, eat shit.
I actually LOLd at that for real.
And adjust your time sheet to add an hour for taking the phone call.
Nope. She cant touch him because he is not on call. If he claims time he will technically be "on the clock". Dont do it.
[удалено]
exactly...he should respond that if they want him on call, then they need to offer to pay him to be on call. and then when they offer, decline and tell them you got drinkin to do on the weekend
“You have reached @OP. Please give me a call back outside of drinking hours. If this is an emergency, please hang up and dial 911.”
I once worked at an airport for a recently created three-letter government agency. We had to park at the lot farthest from the terminals and ride the bus to the terminal. One day the bus broke down. They had to bring in a replacement bus to get us to the terminal. We were 22 minutes late for work. Upon arrival at my duty station my manager proceeds to berate several of us for being late. Handed each of us leave slips and demanded we each put down 45 minutes of leave. When I received my leave slip my politely turned and walked off. Manager demanded to know where I was going. I replied, "I cannot talk to you right now because you just put me on approved leave". She then explained that I need to stay there and fill out the form. I then explained, "filling out work-related forms is a work-related activity which I am currently unable to do because I am CURRENTLY ON LEAVE. I went and had breakfast. Came back, sat down and filled out the form. Sadly, I made several errors and had to start over a few times. Must have taken me the better part of an hour. Not long after I transferred to another three-letter government agency at a much higher paygrade.
Terrible idea. The crux of the issue is that it’s not work time.
It’s clearly not company time. But if they made him do work duties while he was off the clock, that’s on them and it doesn’t matter if he was drinking because the employer did not provide any notice that he was expected to be constantly on call.
Ah yes, so then they'd be drunk on the clock. Solid advice.....
He also didn't have to take the call
I fucking love that look on their faces when you tell them you'll need a few minutes to compose your response and that you'd like a copy of it for your own records. I've done that twice in my life so far, and it's satisfying every time.
I was a manager for years and I actually LOVED when employees took the time to reflect before responding to a write-up. I think, in those instances, the responses were more thoughtful, less angry, and usually very insightful. I also made copies of everything for my employees. If a Manager gets freaked out by an employee wanting a copy of a write up, or doesn't want to give the person the time to craft a response, they shouldn't ever manage staff
Most people in managerial roles have no business being in those roles.
Managers are like politicians, the ones that want the job are usually the worst people for it.
The truth. I hate management but someone has to do it and the raises are nice. As a reluctant manager it turns in to how much can you get away with for your employees without stepping on the higher ups toes. Exhausting.
This is the true toll of the job. The balancing act is endless.
I once heard that only cream and crap float to the top in business
I was unjustly fired and this might have saved my job. That said, I’m much happier at my current job so it worked out.
You don’t get written up for shit you do off the clock on your personal life. Full stop.
No, you don't. But this boss is crazy enough to think she can control OPs weekend behavior, she's crazy enough to try to write him up. Full stop.
And ask where that is in the employee handbook
I had a boss try to write me up (years ago) for calling out too often, but when I asked where the corresponding written policy was on how frequently an employee could use their sick time, I was told it was an unofficial understanding. So I refused to sign the write up, used the response section to note there was no policy to violate, and then walked myself to the nearest copier before handing them back the original. A week later, the employee manual was updated.
Any employer too stupid to have a written attendance policy is just asking for problems like that.
I mean, i think the first step was to not answer a call from the boss at 9pm on a Saturday if you’re not on call.
OR ask her when you are going to get the back pay from every weekend since you started the job that you have supposedly been ON THE CLOCK past 9 pm. She should be happy you even answered the phone.
So fun fact there have been successful cases where someone sued because of language in their contract or what their bosses send out demanding things like that. People win and get shit loads of back pay/overtime pay.
Not signing a write up doesn’t mean anything. Signing it just means you acknowledge you saw it and read it.
Not true AT ALL. A signed write-up implies consent and agreement to WHATEVER HR put on it, and it's ABSOLUTELY used to justify termination of employment when denying unemployment claims. DON'T EVER sign a write-up. - your friendly HR rep
Also, in the future, don’t answer work calls when you are not working. If you are not required to be on call, don’t be
This. Why in the fuck are you answering work calls when you are off?
And why, in God's name, while you're DRUNK?
To be fair, depending on how drunk one is, decision-making skills can be significantly reduced.
> And why, in God's name, while you're DRUNK? You answered your own question.
Perhaps his judgement was affected?
Probably because they were drunk.
who knows if they have the number saved in caller ID, you shouldn't pick up work when you're not there but I've instinctively picked up the phone before, especially if they were drunk it could have just been a reflex
If the number isn't in my caller ID I'm DEFINITELY not picking up.
I wish that was an option for everyone, but if you have older kids, it isn’t always.
The burden still isn't on the employee for picking up the phone for either legitimate reasons (thinking the manager might be calling to cancel a shift, an emergency, or any other reason a job might call you, every place is different) or on accident (thinking it's someone else, reflex, habit, etc). If management is calling off the clock then they have no business sticking their nose where it don't belong
People really do live different lives. The idea of answering a phone call I'm not expecting while drunk doesn't compute. If it's not important it's not important. If it's important then I should wait till I'm not drunk anymore. If it's an EMERGENCY they'll call 3 times in a row and THEN you answer, or hopefully you have the numbers saved from those who would be calling about an emergency. I cant think of a single call from a random number that could be important and would need to be dealt with immediately and while drunk.
Let me add: Never, ever give any indication to your boss where you will be if you are traveling. As a young, naive 20-something, I told my boss that I would be at the Marriott in Denver, and of course he had to call me (waking me up with the 2-hour time difference) to ask where some silly file was that he could easily have found himself or gotten someone else to find. No good deed goes unpunished. As far as your boss is concerned, when you're traveling, you're going off planet and they can fend for themselves!
Any time I'm taking time off, I tell them that I'm camping.
I used to spend most of my time off backpacking in the mountains, canoeing in the north woods, etc. I told them I'd be where there wasn't phone service, but without specifics, so I could literally be anywhere in North America. I'd just tell them that if they wanted to spend a week finding me in the wilderness, I'd happily answer their questions.
This is the correct response. Unless you have been asked to be available or know about an issue when you leave work and the expectation is that you are available, do t pick up
Good advice for anybody.
Let it go to voicemail so you can check it out.
I don't understand why people answer work calls when they're not on the clock.
Came here to say this. If it’s truly important they can leave a voicemail and/or text me. I won’t answer work calls or emails outside of work.
Never understood people who complain about work invading their personal life while also ALLOWING work to invade their personal life by responding to work messages. I say this as a lead who manages a team of 25. Nothing is ever on fire that people need to be disturbed outside of work hours. And if it is, fix the system so it isn't.
Right? Respect your own time. I frequently answer Slack messages when I’m off the clock because I really like the team I’m on, but the second I don’t feel like doing work good luck getting me to answer.
I work under someone just like you and it is the most gloriously refreshing way to work. And they get 125% effort out of me because of it. It’s such a shame that the culture in the US is such the opposite.
TBF my boss of over 10 years has never called my personal phone outside of business hours and only then to return a message I left her. If she called me 10pm on a Saturday I'd be so confused and curious I would answer lol.
10pm Saturday? Id assume my boss was drunk and pocket dialing me from the legion lmao
For me, if my boss called me at 10 pm, it would be bc someone accidentally fucked up something we were working on Minecraft outside of work.
Minecraft? I'm confused by your relatively simple sentence lol. Its no big deal but Minecraft in that sentence has thrown me lol
She was drunk 🤷♀️
It was a booty call, and you dissed her.
I always hope it's that the building burned down.
Be the change you want to see
Hopefully my stapler got out safely.
It really depends on the job. Some jobs require off the clock work and that expectation is built into the salary. But yeah, if you are drunk/high/partying etc, just let it go to voice-mail. You are not accomplishing anything by answering a phone call while drunk.
The thing is, drunk me doesn’t make best decisions. Sober me would have let it go to vm, but drunk me was ‘let’s see what this b**ch wants…. Put her on speaker.
You need to have more self control to survive in an adult job. Never answer in this state.
>drunk me was ‘let’s see what this b\*\*ch wants…. Put her on speaker This is why you might be having the meeting. When you're drinking, don't take calls.
So you drunkenly took a phone call and put your boss on speaker while out with friends on the weekend and repeating this back doesn’t register any unprofessional vibes off for you? Edit: according to other comments you weren’t just drunk but completely blackout hammered Edit 2: holy shit you’re 47?! I was 100% expecting this to be some green 24 year old. Yikes
She's not on the clock, she doesn't have to be professional. It's unprofessional to call your subordinate late on a weekend, and then acting all offended that they were out having fun.
Id say at the end of the day, the boss calling and expecting this dude to help her out on a Saturday night is still the root cause. Maybe not the most professional to answer your boss while drunk, but even less professional behavior from the manager.
Yeah something tells me you actually were unprofessional and probably deserve that meeting
So your own fault, then.
This is the reality for many positions in IT. We do have an on call rotation, but some duties are in a certain individual's wheelhouse, so we will answer calls or texts when not on call. It's pretty rare that it happens, so NBD where I'm at.
"Hey, wanted to let you know there was a chemical spill at the office over the weekend. We aren't allowed in the building until Tuesday. The company is giving us the day off paid. Sorry for bothering you on the weekend but didn't want you to commute 90 minutes in on Monday morning only to find the doors locked."
This is what text message, email and voicemails are for.
Can't leave a voicemail if the person answers the phone.
That is the epitome of an email blast issue. It touches everybody in the workplace. If that's a phone call, it's a robocall to everyone in the company, not a 1:1. Edit: A lot of weird energy from the comments on this. Trust me, I'm not a boot licker. My work-life balance is tremendous.
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Stand your ground! It will be awkward but stand up for yourself... It's far more unprofessional to call out of business hours unless you have said call me anytime.
Even if OP said call me any time she can’t get mad at the fact that you don’t sit at home waiting for an issue to arise. However I would argue that OP shouldn’t have picked up the phone in general, this is why we have voicemail.
I agree. I would not have answered.
Drunk me doesn’t behave as sober me…. Did I mention I was drunk? Like singing at the top of my lungs in a bar drunk… and I can’t sing… (so I was told that also happened and there is video evidence. Could be a deep fake)
Yes, they cannot hold you accountable for what you do on your private time, unless, it directly intervenes with work or reflects poorly on the company. The way you keep portraying being “singing in a bar wasted” as an all around great excuse for taking the call and not making good decisions is leading me to believe there is more to the story. While you were not in business hours, you straight up fucked up by taking the call hammered. At that point then yeah it’s probably more on you now. You’ve at least proved that you don’t have sound judgement and are unreliable. And yeah, while unfair, it will definitively affect your current role. Fight it, but I would be a bit more realistic based on what most people are telling you on here.
It's unprofessional to expect everyone to be at your beck and call 24/7. Unless you're a first responder, and that still takes a state of emergency.
First responders work shifts. The 911 dispatcher does assign cases Saturday night but not to off duty cops.
Next time don't answer calls when you are partying. It's not your fault but this situation sucks.
This. If it’s not awkward then make it that way. Make sure she knows what she did isn’t acceptable and you’ll do as you please with your time off. If not then you should be expecting pay for when you’re called outside of normal work hours.
I really, really wanna know what happens on Monday.
Same here! Please update when necessary OP!
RemindMe! 2 days
Despite what nearly everyone on this thread is telling you, don't go into that meeting with guns blazing on Monday. "Hey, sorry I'm not available to help on weekends. I'm sure you were under some serious pressure or you wouldn't have called me because I know you really want your employees to have a work/life balance. I've already taken a look at those files and everything checks out on my end. How else can I help?" All I'm saying, is unless you have another job lined up, you need to be a bit delicate here. Once you've secured a new role, you can rip your boss a new one in the exit interview.
Voice of reason. Protect your income for the time being, look for a new job while you’re still employed.
Except remove the “sorry” part because there’s nothing to be sorry for
Whenever I read responses like this I assume that you are either young or fairly low on the ladder. Both are absolutely fine, but if you want to start a business and knock it out of the park or if you want to climb the ole corporate ladder you have to play some politics and occasionally apologize for stuff that isn’t your fault. Again, if that doesn’t interest you than by all means there is no shame in standing your ground, but many people on Reddit want to stand their ground and bully their bosses but then get upset because they’re being left behind and not making as much money as they feel they should. Promotions and raises are not based entirely on merit and hard work.
To me this is basic customer service habits. Think of it like babying a customer, rather than actually admitting any fault. It's purely transactional.
typical redditor
Saying sorry, it an admission of guilt, and could lead to disciplinary actions. Depends on the country, but still, don't say you are sorry. Excuse yourself, but don't say your sorry.
This is the best response. People here are seeming to forget the political side of a job. OP shouldn’t have picked up the phone if drunk and explicitly said they were drunk. The boss has the upper hand here.
Never answer the phone after hours unless you’re paid to be on call!
The unprofessional aspect is telling your boss you were wasted. Why didn't you just say you were out with friends bro? 😂 (EDIT: People seem to not be understanding what I'm saying. It isn't unprofessional as an adult to be drunk on the weekend, but, OP himself said "I was suuuuuperr drunk," which implies that he maybe didn't communicate that he was drinking in the most professional way. Boss shouldn't have been calling but OP probably didn't convey his inability to help in the best way for when talking to one's boss.)
They accurately described why they weren't able to help. What's wrong with that? They didn't mention the hooker they were burying.
There are some things you just don't say, some things you don't say to certain types of people, and some things you don't say to particular people. OP's response to their boss has at least one statement in 2 of those categories. Plus: there are some things that should be paired together when dealing with certain people. In this instance: "I can't help you" should have been paired with "right now" AND "but, call me again and I can help you then"
Ultimately, though, having been drunk, OP should have just let the call go to voice-mail, especially if they knew it was from their boss OR from the office at all.
When my phone rings, I generally answer it - if for no other reason than because I'm curious. As was stated earlier, there is no on call component to this person's job. Suggesting another inappropriate time for work to get a hold of them (because they're not on-shift then either) seems somewhat pointless. It also would invite the employer to further disturb this person's free time. In fact they are drunk, may also in and of itself provide its own explanation any curtness or flippant sounding talk. They don't need to know what kind of beer you were drinking or how shit faced you really are, but letting them know that you're impaired by alcohol is not a taboo subject. The fact that you think that it should be treated as such is disturbing to me.
Nah, I reject your false puritanism as someone who actually worked an on the call job. Admitting where you are and whether you can respond based on your condition is part of the process- and although OP waa not on call her boss asked her for help and she told her honestly im not home and even if I came home I cant help you. Telling your boss you're drunk when you're out drinking on a weekend on a day off isnt unprofessional its totally normal- now if youre so drunk you cant speak properly or control yourself thats a different issue. No way for OP to know that if they didn't say they were drunk that their boss wouldn't have just asked them to come home to help anyways. It is unprofessional as a manager to call on off time AT NIGHT, ON A WEEKEND! That is text territory unless it is an emergency even when youre on call. If what op says is 100% true then there is no defense.
Yeah, I’m not sure it’s great to say “yoooooo…I’m too drunk to help yooouuuu” to your boss even off the clock. That being said, it’s maybe a little awkward but the boss is still wrong to ding OP about it.
in the situation where its like 9 at night with your freinds and its your day off i think its fine, practically everyone drinks it isnt some taboo thing
Right? Op wasn't saying they was coked out of their mind
Call her out. Calling you when you are not clocked in is serious violation. Unless you are paid to do so.
Violation of what ?
Violation of boundaries, of work expectations, of privacy.
And, sometimes, labor laws.
Violation of.... well, OP isn't on call. You don't get to call an employee who's not on call. That's not how things work anywhere.
*not how things are "supposed" to work anywhere.
It’s not really a violation unless there is a law I’m not aware of or a contract in place that states you are expected to be on call or expectations concerning controlled substances like weed or alcohol (ex: wife has signed a contract that says she can’t smoke weed while employed, even though it’s legal). It’s just really shitty to call someone on their personal time and expect them to drop everything to fix a problem even though they aren’t on call.
Why even mention the drinking? Why?
This is the correct question and what’s causing the whole problem for OP. Totally unnecessary to say and shows poor judgement. Better off not answering at all.
Set her ringtone to 4'33" by John Cage
This made me laugh so hard!
I hope you tell her on Monday how highly unprofessional it is to be in charge, not know what you're doing AND have to call for help. *That's* unprofessional. You're free time is not her time.
No it is not, but it is highly unprofessional to disturb somebody in their free time and slander them if they are not available if not on call
Yes, but he isn't being criticized for not being available, he's being criticized for taking a work call while drunk. As he wasn't on call and there was no understanding he would be available to support, he would have been fine just not answering.
Just because it’s the norm to be in charge and not know what you’re doing doesn’t mean it isn’t unprofessional
If you are on call, I could see this being true. If you are not on call, then your boss can go fuck themselves.
I had a boss who used to call me during my off hours. Next time I submitted payroll, I included those after hour work calls. Guess what? He never called me outside of work again.
Why would you answer a work call while drunk? Why would you say you were drunk? I can see her point in saying you were unprofessional because you took a work call when you were drunk and used that as an excuse. You weren't home and didn't have access. That is enough of an excuse. You were at a planned event and it was too loud to take a phone call, again good enough. But telling your boss your too drunk to help, that isn't information you needed to add. If that is the conversation, then fine. But if it is that you shouldn't be drinking incase she calls. Nope, doesn't work that way. Unless you have a contract or some type of laws prohibiting you from drinking (surgeon, pilot, etc) then they can't do anything about it.
I had a boss like this - they rung on a saturday night at 11pm when I was out at a night club. They gave me a dressing down on Monday, I gave them a serve back and also said they don't pay me to be on call and I didn't earn enough to care. I resigned shortly after - they were a nightmare to work for. Find a new job!
Find a new job. Lol. Isn't this the same place people post they applied to 5k jobs over 7 months and got 2 interviews and then were ghosted? Ha
Yeah, stop answering the phone calls from work on the weekends.
Your boss is an incompetent loser
The entitlement some bosses is outrageous. They think they own their employees. Fuck that shit!
Double check your employee handbook and any employment contract you have, see if there’s anything in there that can help you Ask you to show you where it says you’re not allowed to have fun in your free time
1) do not answer your work phone after hours 2) do not answer your work phone drunk 3) do not tell anyone at work you are drunk Standard protocols for a solid 40 years in the work force
My boss called me one day on my day off. I answered the phone "Hiya, Boss Be warned right now, I'll do what I can but I'm rather stoned and mildly intoxicated" She said "Never mind, we'll talk on Monday. Enjoy your weekend" My boss is great.
Your boss sounds awesome.. gosh I hate my boss
That is one way to ensure I would NEVER answer her call after hours again.
Unprofessional to call someone at 9pm on the weekend if it's not an absolute emergency. Tell ur boss where to stick it.
Don't answer work calls during your time off
Not trying to victim blame but.. why did you answer the phone at 9pm on Saturday
It’s fine to blame the victim here. The boss sounds like an AH, but why answer? Furthermore, don’t tell a supervisor you’re intoxicated. You’re free to do what you want on your own time, but that’s just a childish, foolish thing to tell someone you report to.
Because it rang.
I third that question. Knowing you’re drunk and it’s 9 pm, why? So yes, Monday ought to be interesting, but OP isn’t wrong either.
OP is not a victim lmao. Victim of what? OP’s boss probably started the convo saying “hey, I’m really sorry to bug you on the weekend but..” and then OP inexplicably decided to disclose that they were intoxicated and couldn’t help, despite the fact that they answered the phone! We have no clue what industry OP is in, whether they’re exempt or non-exempt, whether they’re vital to operations or highly compensated, etc. All of these factors are crucial in determining the level of unprofessionalism in this situation. But OP is definitely not a victim.
This is a fair point.
Don’t answer a work phone call off the clock. And if you are, at least be sober for it.
Unless you have some sort of written contract and are compensated for being on call 24/7 they don’t own you on your own time. Her comments are ridiculous. If she tries to discipline you for this take it to someone over her head, HR, the state bureau of labor and industry, whatever applies
Your only mistake was answering work on a day off. Your boss is crazy. Tell her you'll do whatever the fuck you want on your day off.
She probably meant telling her that you were drunk was unprofessional. You can't be too honest with people like her, should have said "I must apologize, I'm entirely unavailable at this moment. I'm more than happy to assist you during working hours" /s
Don't answer your work phone on your weekend. Nurses get called into work all the time. The hospital makes it sound like an emergency. The only way out of it is to say you're loaded. Then they never forget you said you were loaded. Don't pick up the phone. Besides that, how much do you like this job? If you like your job, don't mouth off to this lady. She absolutely has no right to call you on your weekend. But "go to hell" may not put you in line for a promotion. Tell her you were at a bachelor party or some other one-time event. Then don't discuss your personal life anymore. It sounds like she wants to dress you down. Say as little as possible. You can always address what she says later. Nobody ever got in deeper shit by shutting up. BUT BUT BUT: It's inappropriate for her to call you at night. Then she wants to see you Monday? Is she sexually harassing you? If the genders were switched, that's what it would look like. Listen to her carefully on Monday so you get a clearer picture of what's going on. If It's sexual harassment, consider filing a complaint with HR. The way this works is she'll treat you like shit unless you play ball. She won't say this directly. It's all "Let's be friends", " If you'd like to be considered for a promotion" and such hinting around. It's degrading. That's why sexual harassment is against the law.
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Maybe it was unprofessional to say you were drunk, you could have left it at ‘unavailable to help at the moment’ Pro tip- don’t answer work calls when you aren’t working.
over reaching on boss’s part but also it’s not a great idea to tell your boss you’re too drunk if you do pick up a phone call, even off hours.
Don’t answer your phone when you’re off the clock. That’s it, problem solved.
Crazy.. but don't answer if you're drunk dude
Why did you even answer the phone?
This is a life lesson for you. You can do whatever you want on your off time, but don't volunteer that you're drunk to your boss. It's appropriate to think that it's not acceptable for your boss to call you on the weekends. A reasonable response in the moment would have been to ignore the call. If they make a habit of it you can raise a point about that in a professional way. You can say that you expect to not be called, or that you expect to be compensated for working outside of your hours. A good place to handle these concerns would be in a meeting or email. At no point should you ever say "I'm drunk" to your boss on the phone. Saying this is unprofessional, like it or not. It's not that you were unavailable, and it's not even that you were drunk. It's that you overshared unnecessary information.
She shouldn’t have been calling you on your off time but yes it is unprofessional to tell her you can’t help because you are super drunk. Next time don’t answer and then when you are sober tell her that you don’t have access to your computer and will take a look Monday morning.
Power move time, OP. Show up drunk to work on Monday.
Rule #1 of surviving life: never give a bit of personal information voluntarily.
Maybe don’t tell your coworkers or boss that you are too drunk to do something. Even in your off time. That’s the unprofessional part, Child
Is it possible that you were very drunk and very unprofessional like she said? You don't have to be on call, but you still can't call your boss "Ms. Sugar Boobs" even on the phone on the weekend during your time off. I doubt that happened, I'm just exaggerating for effect, but the point is solid. If a boss calls you about work, and you answer, it is a work call. You don't have to DO work on your off time, but there is still a reasonable decorum to be observed during the conversation. I'm not talking about legal obligations, just basic professionalism. It is my practice that when I receive an after hours call from supervisors, I believe it is appropriate to speak to them like I would at work. That doesn't give them any special rights to impose upon me to do anything during my off time, it just addresses my comportment during the conversation. That isn't the law, you don't have to follow that; it makes work easier for me.
Stop answering calls when you can’t reply
She’s right that being drunk is unprofessional. She’s wrong in assuming you have any responsibility to be professional on your days off.
Tell her, straight up, that if she can dictate what you do or consume on your off time that you need to be paid for being on call.
Oof. Terrible boss. Sorry there pal.
Just start the meeting by saying “I’m so happy you wanted to set up this meeting to apologize for calling me on my personal number when I’m never supposed to be working on the weekend. It shows a lot of professionalism on your part that you recognized your lapse in judgment.”
Maybe you should write her up for overstepping her bounds? Not on call, not her business what you are doing.
That's when you let them know that your not an on-call employee and that you had no notice that you may be requested on your day off. My boss argued with me once about me not wanting to work on my days off, and used colorful language to say "You work for us. We own you." I told my boss "No one owns me. You pay for my time and attention. If you want me to work on *my* time then you have to make it worth it to me." The boss tried the same bullshit "You get more hours, you get paid more." To which I explained you can't sell something that I would already be getting. Sell me something that makes it worth my time. I've gotten free dinners for me and my mom, and I have had a shit load of mountain dew all at my bosses expense. Don't let bosses or companies think they own you or that they can sell you something you would already be getting. Make them hire you again, but don't demand the world keep it simple 😉.
The first response you have to anything your nut job boss says is “How dare you call me on my personal phone on a Saturday night about work.” Then watch the light fade from her eyes.
What is unprofessional is getting called by your boss at 9pm on a Saturday expected to do work for free. Who the hell does she think she is expecting you to give her your time off the clock? Ridiculous.
This rule has helped me and I had learned it from a lady in her 50s when I was in my very early 20s “If I’m scheduled off and you’re calling me .I’m not answering .there’s plenty of other workers and mangers to cover . “ And for someone who couldn’t say no this has help me a lot with setting work boundaries.
Never answer work calls on your day off.
I once told my manager I had been drinking so couldn't come in because someone walked out. She told me to come anyways. I also had to come into work after taking 5 or more sleeping pills cause someone... you guessed it.. quit over text. I had just got off my other job and was going to sleep and saw the text and knew I was about to be called to come in. I did. While leaning on the cashier register counter I was told "you got time to lean, you got time to clean". She never gave a shit about all the favors I did for her. She never treated me good. Lesson learned.
She obviously thinks that she just owns you 24/7. My way of dealing with this would be to attend the meeting and say as little as possible while smiling and nodding. She can have her narcissistic rant but she can't write you up for what you were doing in your personal time.
Walk into the meeting as if it's a negotiation of your on-call/standby rates. Play dumb when she tries to shame you for having a personal life, and try to subtly shift the shame onto her for not rightfully compensating you for on-call time. Hopefully that shuts her up.
Then enjoy being unemployed! It’ll be great.
There are some wild responses on this post. If you're not paid to be on call and the boss calls you during off hours...don't answer the phone. If you opt to answer the phone, don't tell her your drunk, jfc. It's not unprofessional to be drunk on the weekend but it unprofessional to tell you boss that you are. Like, wtf? 😆
It's insane how people are saying to file harassment complaints, the boss is a loser for asking for help, etc. It explains a lot when people think basic professionalism is such a high demand. lol
OP boss is jealous she has no life
What on earth? What kind of job is this? Please share an update on Monday.
Calling on weekend is annoying but not a huge issue if it’s occasional and she really needs help. What is an issue is chastising you for being drunk in on off hours. You have a right to do what you want off the clock. If she doesn’t agree with your lifestyle that’s too bad.
Mistake #1 - you answered the phone when you weren't on work time.
The proper response is to get your resume out there. In the future, block her number after work hours... until you find a better job.
Say it again class, altogether: “never answer work calls outside of work”
The first step is to not answer your phone when you’re not working
I wouldn’t of told her my personal business
This is why you don't answer work calls when you aren't at work.
JUST LET THESE CALLS GO TO VOICEMAIL!
Next time don’t even answer the phone
Why would you answer the call?
She probably felt pissed off you rejected her request and it damaged her ego. Fuck her! Don't let her boss you around nevermind dictate your personal life. Isn't calling you during your time off considered harassment??
First mistake was answering your phone. On Monday I would probably laugh during the meeting. She doesn’t get to dictate what you do while outside work.
I will say it again....WHY are you answering your phone when someone from work calls you on your day off? Nothing good ever comes of this. Don't do it.
Record the meeting. This may help you later.
Document this incident, refuse to sign any disciplinary paperwork she has, & be prepared to take it up with HR or her direct report