My manager wasn't here today, and it is kind of a "family" mentality in that managers handle these kinds of conversations for each other all the time. Like not having to ask specifically mom to do something, if other adult family/friends are around, if that makes sense.
But I've also been struggling the last few months in my role. Another employee I was coaching complained about me last year. It was my first complaint, after coaching at least 90 other employees, and the employee went on to show a pattern- when they got in trouble for something, they would complain about the "superior" involved to take the heat off themselves. They did this to a few other people, and ended up getting terminated for legitimately cheating doing their job (pretending while not actually doing anything). The other people were management, but since I technically am not (I do some management things, without the title, pay or protection) it was held against me, not them. I almost lost my role. I kept my head down, and tried to do my thing, but a few months later the first dress code issue, then a month or so ago, someone overheard a conversation with an employee about a very similar life experience, and reported me that I *might* have offended the employee. It has been noted that the employee did NOT complain, and we have a good relationship. But when my manager was told, my position was threatened again. I was told my manager was considered not allowing me to talk to employees anymore.
I have spent 1/2 a year trying to repair my previously overwhelmingly glowing reputation- truly, I get asked by at least 70 agents when I will be a manager, cuz they want to be on my team- and I am scared to bring to my managers attention that-fair or not- I have had ANOTHER complaint.
I can't step down from my role, because it would effectively end any chance of growth, but I feel like I'm under a microscope, and someone(s) are looking for every potential mistep to bring me down.
I honestly really like the company I work for. It truly cares about it's employees, and my leaders have always made me feel empowered and supported. I'm neurodivergent, and that isn't the typical experience. It was the first job that made me feel good enough, and even gave me the room to grow, when all other companies could only see the negative attributes of my condition. I became really good at my job, and I wanted to pass on the support I had received. But about 2 years ago, they decided that- while previously the management positions were filled almost exclusively from inside the company, usually promotions from the same department, but sometimes other departments- the last (at least) 26 times it's been filled, only 4 have been within the company. They decided they preferred management experience with no company experience over company experience without management experience.
My role was created for internal to take on some of the responsibilities of management to gain experience, so we would better qualify for the promotion.
There is almost no chance of moving up in this role, but none at all not in it.
They rigged the game, in other words. Yikes.
I'm glad you've felt empowered and supported to this point but what you're posting about is neither supportive nor empowering- it's shady AF.
So the role was created to have you do unpaid labor ... think about that when you say the company cares about you. Do all this extra work for "experience" but we won't compensate you and your ass will be on the line if you mess up. Sounds like a new company is in order
This falls under the category of sexual or gender-based harassment, imo. Someone is scrutinizing your body at work. That's not ok. I'd push back hard on this and point out to leadership that it's the person making the anonymous complaints who is actually crossing lines.
This is exactly how I feel. Even though both times the managers determined I was in dress code, it is still embarrassing to be called in, and have my body and dress scrutinized to see it it was "appropriate".
I think it’s a good time to consult a lawyer- as a backup to this resulting in the company firing you.
It’s not fair that someone is targeting you and using an idiotic dressing style as an excuse to get you penalized.
They can't fire me for this, 1 because I am not even out of dress code, and 2 because I am actually a WFH employee who volunteers to come in to be more available to help. If I had a reason to start worrying, I would just stop going in. I have a right to do so, and am doing the company a favor by going in. I could do 100% of my requirements from home, but there is a lot of other stuff I do because I'm there and able to help.
I’m sorry I’m going to be blunt.
Every single person on here is giving you actual helpful advice and you’re ignoring it and making up strange excuses about why you should stay somewhere that is treating you badly, or some convoluted reason why it’s not as bad, or some strange internal process,
This company is not promoting you, making it so you’ll never progress, constantly stressing you out that you’re gonna be fired and your reputation is ruined AS WELL AS LETTING SOMEONE REPEATEDLY HARASS YOU VIA COMPLAINTS.
Sort it out. Get a new job. This one is horrible and you’re in denial.
I know it feels more mature or better to fix it, but sometimes these things aren’t fixable and you’ll be happier once you free yourself from constantly worrying about this stuff.
Besides the things I mentioned that I do like about my company, there are some very attractive benefits that are very hard to find elsewhere, that I am avoiding saying for privacy. I'm not willing to give those up. Because of the benefits, people don't quit, there are at least 50 people in my office alone who have been there 30+ years.
I would stop coaching and go back to my regular role and except I'm never getting promoted before ever quitting!
And I liked what I did before, I was good at it, and it was easy enough, but I truly enjoy helping other employees succeed, because- like I said- if they can get through the first year, they will want to stay the next 30.
Sorry my answers were convoluted, it was the end of a long day, on a long week, so my answers- while still true- were coming from emotion.
If they were a good company they’d have told the person who complained that you didn’t violate any rules instead of repeatedly chastising you and admitting you did nothing wrong.
If you think benefits are worth your mental health and all future career progression, and potentially your professional reputation, then we’ll probably just disagree.
You aren’t the perp here but you are lengthening a bad situation by refusing to see how bad it is.
I am sorry it’s happening because it’s not your fault and you shouldn’t have to leave a good place for a bad persons actions, but it’s coming from managers, they’re handling it wrong and it’s because the company isn’t as good as you think it is. Otherwise they’d behave better.
Oh an the common knowledge about people staying for years if they can make the first year. Doesn’t sound good to me. Sounds like a company who knows they have staff over a barrel and treat them however they want or they’ll cut their benefits.
There is a very specific benefit that most people would kill for, that can not be taken. But also, the "HR that isn't HR" I was trying to avoid saying is the Union. So they can't even document these dress code without discussing it with a Union rep. Which would shut it down. That was the HR person I talked to yesterday about my attire. What is being said to me can't be quantified by policy, so it can only be "brought to my attention". That's why I'm not worried about getting fired.
But also, no, they can't just take benefits from us. We have a negotiated Union contract. It's good for a set number of years. Once that is up, the company and the union have to agree to any changes.
Sorry when I said benefits from you, I meant through firing or constructive dismissal (making you quit)
You should just stop speaking to your managers and go straight to your union (assuming that means the same as it does in the UK) the Union are there to advocate for you.
So what they’re doing is dragging you into to an office as part of regular ongoing harassment and they’re intentionally not following policy or procedure because they don’t want the Union to come for them…. Then you should approach the Union.
Imagine you’re at school, you’re 6. A teacher is constantly writing you up for things and they aren’t even in the schools policy book, and they intentionally tell you that they aren’t telling your parents. If they were valid in their complaints they’d bring your parents in. If it’s part of a bullying campaign, they’ll try to segregate you from adults who can help.
On reflection, it sounds to me like they might be doing this so you can’t ever leave the coaching position and go into management. Are the other people who get harassed about their clothing also trying to progress into this role you more chasing.
I personally think your company sounds like it’s exploiting you, keeping you in the role in perpetuity because it’s easier to have you train new people instead of letting you progress and find a new trainer.
What they’re doing is open and shut against the law in my country. Constructive dismissal on gender
TBH, the "trying to keep me where I am" is really how it feels for me too, and it sucks.
The other women are actually already management. But it seems to stem from employees. The dress code doesn't really get enforced unless it's egregious enough to really get attention. But the agents that get dress coded like to turn around and nit Pic the leaders. So, an agent might get dress coded because their shorts are 6 inches above the knee, and showing more thigh than it covers- which IS out of dress code- and will turn around and try to find issues with "leadership".
Why are they calling you in if they can clearly see your dress is appropriate? I’d ask them why they are bringing it up to you? Unless they want you aware of it for your HR complaint.
As a manager, this nonsense wouldn’t even make it to the employee if it wasn’t out of dress code. If some random staff said something to me about another staff, I’d check if appropriate and if they’re in dress code, it’s not even mentioned. If it’s not, *I* address it from my own personal evaluation (ie, I noticed that you’re wearing a dinosaur costume, and per our policy….). There is no situation that I would say “someone complained, and I’m going to tell you about it.” This is bad management.
Ha! DO IT! And for the record, our policy doesn’t have anything about length, appropriateness etc. We are an active job so our guidelines are about safety and comfort (you should be able to run, jump, play, and chase children without anything falling down, riding up or coming off. No string ties on swimsuits, be mindful of undergarments showing, and protect yourself from sunburn). Other than that people can wear what they want.
Correct. Because people keep making inaccurate complaints about what I wear. In talking to a manager I'm friends with, I did find out that this is apparently a trend with the female leadership at the moment, excessive complaints about attire.
Maybe, but it is getting to me. Because of my body shape, I make sure ANYTHING I wear is appropriate before wearing it to work. I try it on (again) after I buy it, and have my kids and husband see if it's appropriate for work. Not to short, or too tight, no cleavage, or see through. So I don't know how to dress anymore. I feel genuinely uncomfortable in my own body.
And the thing is, I could WFH in my pj, with my heated blanket, and my cat in my lap, but I enjoy what I do! I learned to be good at my job, and now I get to help new employees who may be struggling be successful. I try to dress in a way that exudes leadership, but honestly because I wasn't confident in my role in the beginning, so it felt better to look the part.
A decent company would have someone from HR take a walk and say good morning to you, not say a word about your attire if within dress code, then go back to the person complaining and let them know repeatedly making false allegations against a coworker is a form of harassment.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Or the manager comes over to ask a question, check out the outfit, and then dismiss the complaint.
I had a complaint made against me once and it did get back to me, but my manager flat out told the guy “this isn’t middle school” because it was asinine.
Yeeeeeep. Getting called into the office as if this is just the way they MUST address it…is completely unnecessary and degrading. OP, this company doesn’t have your back. You feel needed and good about what you and that’s amazing, but the way they are handling this situation is completely inappropriate and is shaking you up for no reason.
This is… really odd. Honestly— if it was the same person each time, and they determined the first time that you were totally fine, then the managers/hr should just thank that person for telling them and file it away.
I feel like this is also an issue that should only be handled by HR? I think it’s odd to have a manager address how you work, unless maybe they are specifically office experience? Idk. It all seems really weird.
The onus should be on the HR dept to do the investigation and determine the legitimacy of the complaint. It sounds like you have been put on trial and guilty until proven innocent and that’s not how it should be. Sorry you are experiencing this.
But management handles it since they are physically here. And to be fair, neither manager pursued anything, and deemed my clothes (mostly) appropriate. But it's the hassle and embarrassment of repeatedly being pulled aside.
With the sweater, I had gotten covid or something over winter, and gained like 20 lbs from being in bed+holidays. I was already feeling self conscious, and that made me feel worse. When I went to my direct manager, while she said she didn't see a problem, sometimes we put on weight, and things don't fit the same. I didn't tell her I had gained weight.....
No one has to tell anyone they've gained or lost twenty pounds although that still sucks. I have struggles with weight fluctuation and what's appropriate or not can change a lot based on where I'm at that month.
I think you need to start documenting. Time, date, photo of outfit from front and back. After another complaint, go to HR for harassment using the dress code in a sexual way for a normal outfit. Use all three examples. Reference each manager who talked to you and thought the outfit did not violate the dress code each time. Make a tidy paper trail that shows HR someone is harassing you and it could be a lovely lawsuit in your favor if it continues (don’t say that they will see that). You say “I’m just trying to do my job but someone is trying to prevent me from doing that). Let them investigate it. Keep documenting if it happens again. If HR does nothing, call a lawyer and get an opinion. Hopefully HR steps up and reprimands whoever is being such a prude.
Still. I think the complaints should still be handled by HR and have it involve as little people as possible. Whoever complained needs to be directed to the HR dept, and HR needs to do the follow up.
You’re right, because OP is being targeted and harassed and HR (representing the company) is allowing that to happen. OP quite possibly has a case for harassment … false dress code violation accusations.
Whether their HR office is at that location or not doesn’t matter to the courts. HR should technically investigate repeated violation claims.
I’m hoping someone will wise-up and pursue legal action if that continues. It’s a shame OP seems reluctant to stand-up for herself by not bringing her harassment to HR (that would shut down the complainer quickly) but it can be scary to hold a company to task for illegal treatment (which is why this treatment continues).
No HR has a job to protect the company. You have a harassment claim on the basis of gender.
HR will know you can sue them and have a good case so they should stop the harassment. Or they’ll sack you because they want you gone, and try to convince you that you don’t have a discrimination case (which you do). I don’t know the term in the US but in the UK it’s constructive dismissal.
Piggybacking on what the other commenter said, I think you should talk to a lawyer. Right now, if they fired you they’d have a paper trail of multiple offenses that could stop you from winning a wrongful termination case. You haven’t formally appealed the complaints so they could use them against you, even though they aren’t true. Consult with a lawyer about the harassment to see if you have a case and to protect yourself.
I’m not a lawyer, and I can’t give legal advice. But this sounds like very dangerous territory
Go to HR yourself and tell them what's happening. Either someone is jealous or harassing you. That way when the next inevitable complaint comes in they can treat it appropriately.
Who is going around telling people "I can see OP's black undergarments through her dress"? Like seriously? Whoever is telling you people are saying that is the person I'm concerned about. It could be totally made up by the "messenger."
I don't think it was by the messenger. What I was told was they said it wasn't appropriate for a "leader" and that they could see my "black" (but actually nude) under garments.
OP I am sorry you are going through this. I can see that you have taken a lot of blows to your self esteem because of it. You are caught up in solving a pretend issue (dress code) instead of the real one - that there is a concerted effort to harass female leaders at your company.
Stop going to the managers to solve this issue. Go straight to HR and make a sexual harassment claim - don’t wait for the next bullshit dress code. And if you are in the US contact the local EEOC office for assistance. Take the focus off of you and put it back on the company to solve. And if they don’t or won’t you know it is time to leave.
You are a worthy human being and deserve better
I am going to talk to the manager from the first complaint, and see if she'll talk to manager 2 and see if it's the same person. She has apologized multiple times for even talking to me the first time, and she never saw a problem.
Not HR, no. I said HR in my post for anonymity, because the department is not common in most companies, so could help identify me. But it is the twin to HR in that their job directly relates to the knowledge, interpretation, and enforcement of company policies.
But also, it has been managers- not HR or "HR"- that are talking to me.
This is really tough. Firstly, from what you’ve described it sounds like your dress professionally and conscientiously, so I don’t think this is a you problem. I think someone has it in for you.
That’s not fair and it’s not right. But it also sounds like you’re trying to get a promotion and smooth over some wrinkles from the last year.
With that in mind you have two options: fight for what is right, and go head to head with this complainer (risk your job and your reputation in doing so); or keep your head down, change how your dress (pants and sweaters only?), get that promotion and THEN go after them.
If I was planning to stay with the company long term I’d probably go with option two. It’s not fair and it’s not right, but sometimes that’s what self-preservation requires.
The complaints were told to me from 2 separate managers, and manager 2 said they'd never heard about complaint 1. Neither would say who complained, so I don't actually know if it is the same person. I just want to find out if it was the same person- I don't even want to know who- and have that noted. Because I feel like this boarders on harrassment, sexual or otherwise. I want it to be taken with a grain of salt next time instead of having to argue if being able to see a tattoo constitutes "sheer" or not. Before bringing me in for the manager to stare at my ass or breasts, or whatever to determine if too much is showing, them having in mind if this is an ongoing issue with the REPORTER, not me.
While I have only had the 1 major complaint, I have had 2 other agents- 1 who brought a crossword book to a training, because "these meetings are boring", who I sent back to their desk, and 1 who was struggling and had worked with 3 other coaches before me, but was not improving, but kept blaming the coaches-me included.- who have complained, but did not stick. I want to know, or have it noted if it was one of them, because then it is very likely targeted harassment.
I’m most concerned that about the people who keep having the conversations with you about it. If you’re within dress code then they should be shutting it down without involving you. Just because somebody complains, they don’t have to tell you about the complaint.
In fact, they SHOULDN’T be telling you about the complaint. If they review your outfit and code and decide it does not fit then they should just be saying he were notifying you you’re not within dress code today.
There’s something majorly weird going on with how this is all being handled. Who is it that’s actually talking to you? Is it management or HR or both?
This completely sucks. From your description here it sounds like your company has long-standing issues about responding to complaints and handling employees.
I would be tempted to start looking for a new job. If push comes to shove this company will not have your back.
If you can’t look for a new job unfortunately you may have to go extreme and wear only like black pants and tops with sleeves going forward. It’s not right, and you shouldn’t have to, but if your company is going to entertain these stupid complaints about dress code it might be the only way to protect yourself.
The thing is, it's a really good company, and I don't want to leave. This is in issue in my particular department, and office. I plan to apply for a promotion in a different department, and my current role is a stepping stone to that next position. I think I would not be considered in another department if I'm not in this role, and I know that -short of a turn over in upper management in my office- I would NOT have any chance of getting promoted in my current department if I stepped down.
That sucks. It’s hard to be kind of stuck in limbo like that. It’s also infuriating that these complaints are even given the time of day. The employee who made the complaint should have been told its inappropriate to be looking at coworkers underwear and that be the end of it. There should be none of this back and forth with you from the manager when you did nothing wrong.
You should not have to change the way you dress but it sounds like this isn’t just you, it’s a company-wide problem targeting female leadership. Since you have your eye on the prize of a promotion I would just start dressing super business conservative and fly under the radar of whoever is making these complaints.
I hope you can get that promotion soon!
It also really sucks because right before that, an employee had come to me because they just got a cancer diagnosis, and were distraught. I was not even able to recover from that before hearing bullshit about my dress!
This was the 3rd time in 2 days in employee came to me for support in a personal matter (one of the things I love about my company is they are NOT a "leave your problems at the door company. Managers are expected to be someone you can talk to, if you need it) the 3rd person crying in my office that I was able to help in whatever small way. It was incredibly humbling, and I was honored and proud that I could be that safe, trusted place. I did something that really MATTERED.
I struggle with depression and anxiety, so all of these caused some pretty complex feelings (sadness for their struggles, pride for being trusted by them, and able to help, then guilt for taking any sort of positive feeling from their suffering).
I DID something, I still had other work to do, and feelings swirling, and I'm wasting my time on a made up issue with my stupid fucking dress?!
I’d document. Start wearing pants and see if it happens again. If it does, you’re being targeted. If it doesn’t, maybe your dresses are coming up while walking? Or that person hates dresses. But anywho, wear pants for like 3 months and if no one says anything then go back to dresses.
Or say fuck it. Keep wearing dresses and if you get a complaint again, file a sexual harassment complaint
The reason I don't wear pants is that I get a bad case of plumbers crack. I sit all day, with my back to the door/main area in a high traffic area. I started wearing skirts/dresses to avoid complaints.
You can get leotard/bodysuit t-shirts that fix the plumber's crack problem - if you want to approach it that way. Button-up styles like this also exist.
It sounds like the way you currently dress is completely appropriate, and you are being harassed for it. So you can either address the harassment through the proper channels, or change the way you dress to see if the harassment stops. Up to you.
Given the promotion that you are working toward that would get you out of this department, and your obvious desire to stay with this company, I'd probably change my clothes in your situation.
You shouldn't "have" to do this - but in reality if you want to move up soon, you probably shouldn't make waves.
Find a super boring "uniform" that covers up your figure and try to stop thinking about it. Head down and get that promotion!
So maybe the environment I work in has me just aghast at this—but like in my experience, many companies are moving away from the very prescriptive dress codes, because they end up being incredibly sexist as they are generally all about what women wear. They also can be used to target women just like seem to be targeted. Not sure what power you have over the situation, but is it possible to have the dress code policy revisited? We have a “dress for your day” policy so if you have internal meetings, you basically need to look respectable. I tell my team no athleisure, and wear something you would be comfortable in at a family gathering. And for external, you have to be more professional—at least business casual and possibly professional depending on your role.
I just want to say, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I have been targeted in other ways as it seems lots of older males cannot handle a younger woman advancing, but it would have felt extra shitty about my clothing. I hope you get support in addressing this. I strongly believe when unwarranted complaints are made, that the complaining party needs to be told just that. It is not like you are doing anything purposeful to the complainer.
Thank you, and yeah that's exactly how I feel, someone is basically saying "when I was staring at mandicapped's ass, I realized her skirt looked short/sheer. And instead of saying "so you are admitting your staring at your co-workers ass??" They are telling me that my ass is not appropriate to be stared at.
This is a lot to deal with and I’m sorry you’re going through that. Reminds me of more than 10 years ago when a supervisor called me into her office to tell me my dress was too short. I said, “Really? Who told you that? It goes past my fingers” and I put my hands straight down my leg… she got red and I immediately knew it was her and she just babbled I don’t even know what, but I called her out & she never even spoke to me again 🤣
I wish this could happen for you… but sounds like these anonymous complaints will remain anonymous 👎🏼
Okay this is ridiculous. If management believes she is dressed appropriately, can't they just say that to the complaining person and move on with their day? Why is she being put through this if nobody agrees with the complainer or has feedback on what needs to change? This is essentially letting an employee know someone is repeatedly talking shit about them. Very unproductive.
OP - Even if you eventually get promoted, you will never feel comfortable here after this bs. You are fully capable of landing another job, neurodivergent or not. Don't sell yourself short.
Wow this is so bizarre and I feel awful for you! It feels so invasive like harassment honestly. I hope you’re able to get your managers backing because this feels so wrong. I’m so sorry you’re having to experience this at work
It even led to an argument with my male mentor.
He was coming of a place of wanting me to not be upset, but he was like "just get over it, let it go" and I had to explain how invasive it felt.
He is always the person I can go to with a problem, and a major part of why I was given this role to begin with, we have NEVER argued in 5 years.
I really advise you to just start dressing business conservative till you get your promotion, as someone else commented. Take your own personal style out of it. I’m sorry to say but you probably have to make sure it’s not flattering to your figure.
If it’s a good company that you want to stay with, it’s just not worth it to argue over with your mentors and managers. Things like this are impossibly difficult to pin down and usually nothing comes of it. There is also a huge risk of coming off as difficult, which could cost you big. It’s not worth it. In the words of your male mentor - let it go.
Start documenting. Dates, times, names of witnesses to any behaviors. When you’re pulled in to talk about your dress code violations, follow up with all parties via email with a summary of what was talked about and what was agreed to. Keep that paper trail because someone sounds like they want you fired. BCC your personal email address on these emails.
I agree with other commenters here that you are definitely experiencing harassment. So flip their script and make this issue about the harassment you’re experiencing. Use scary legal language and tell them how this is becoming a “hostile work environment.”
If this happens just one more time, consult with a lawyer so you have one in your back pocket should they decide to do something stupid and fire you.
Don’t change your style at all. Keep being you. Hold your head up high. Be diligent with your documentation. HR will definitely catch on to what you’re doing and hopefully sort it out. But if they don’t, you’ll have a paper trail.
My take on this is that managers have a responsibility to protect their employees when necessary. So, if a manager looks at an employee’s clothing after a dress code complaint to find nothing wrong, that employee should not be spoken to about it at all. The complaining employee should be told why the person is not in violation so they are more aware. If your manager saw something wrong with your outfit, they should correct the issue themselves without the “we’ve received complaints” addition to the conversation. No one needs to be in trouble if nothing is wrong, no one needs to be worried about gossip in either case, and everyone can just get back to work.
If your manager thinks you're dressing appropriately then they shouldn't even be telling you about these complaints. Just telling the other person complaining that they're out of line.
The thing is, they are not seeing me at that moment to discern if what the person is saying is valid. They have to see me, to tell.
I did talk to my manager and ask that in the future look without telling me first. Like I'd be fine if they called me in, just said "fine" and let me go, if they did not see an issue.
But the other thing is that- while they may have seen me before and not seen an issue, they start looking for issues in what I'm wearing.
File a complaint that you are being sexually harassed. If even HR agrees that someone would need to be sexualizing/objectifying you in order to spot an issue, then use that.
Also, if there is no problem with what you’re wearing based on the dress code, and if you have the support of your manager and HR, why are they even bringing this to your attention? It seems they should be talking to the person (bc I do believe it’s one) staring so closely at your body.
You got a complaint for underwear you weren't wearing, that wasn't visible????
Umm you should be looking into harassment charges. Someone is egging you to become inappropriate by response.
Simply notify them that there absolutely has been a sexual boundary pushed. And that you feel uncomfortable to perform your job as someone is specifically and sexually targeting you. Even going so far as to tell blatant lies about the underwear you are wearing. Beyond them thinking this is even appropriate to press on is insane. And almost puts you in a place to have to prove your outfit and underwear are appropriate. Which crosses back into that sexual harassment and if it got the point blatant abuse.
I think you should keep dressing the way you feel comfortable, which is clearly within the guidelines of the dress code. Also, look for another job. There's no way for you to move up, and newer statistics show that nowadays it does NOT pay to stay at a company. You are more likely to get a higher salary at a new company, maybe a signing bonus, etc. This place doesn't care about you and regardless of the stuff relating to management, your position, etc, if your boss knows you're within the dress code then why even bring it up to you? If I received that complaint, I would investigate myself, and I would tell the complainer that NO this person is not in violation, and i would not mention it to you.
Holy cow. At this point I would make it awkward and show up in either full Victorian gown or like a dress so frumpy and fabric-heavy, a very religious sect would consider it conservative.
Or go full Gilead and hand maid’s tale and then respond to anyone who makes comments with “under His Eye” and “blessed be the fruit.”
I personally don’t think how anyone dresses impacts their ability to lead. Which means that trying to dress more like a manager, doesn’t make you a better manager. In a lot of the comments you’ve stated that you try hard to look like a leader but there’s no leader look. Leaders are made from actions. It sounds to me like someone you work with doesn’t like you trying to display “leadership” through your appearance and if you just dressed down like everyone else you’d solve the problem. If you love the job and the company but there’s no room for upward growth, I’d recommend buying into the culture which sounds very casual. It sucks but most people don’t like others who appear to be trying too hard. Blending in and showing leadership through actions isn’t a bad thing.
First, this is terrible advice. The looking like a leader was a "fake it til you make it" strategy when I first started. When I didn't feel like I was manager material, I at least looked like it, and it helped me get through. Also, other female leaders have gotten trouble for wearing clothes that are "too casual" like jeans and flannels. So dressing down isn't the answer either.
You said you could wear sweats every day, it’s that type of casual. So which is it? You have to dress up or you don’t? If only women get comments on their clothing, it sounds like a terrible culture and I think it’s more to the problem
Technically dress code allows sweats, since I'm considered "leadership" there are comments if we dress to casual.
So I could, and I couldn't be Technically disciplined, but my direct manager would make comments if my outfit is not appropriate for a leader.
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My manager wasn't here today, and it is kind of a "family" mentality in that managers handle these kinds of conversations for each other all the time. Like not having to ask specifically mom to do something, if other adult family/friends are around, if that makes sense. But I've also been struggling the last few months in my role. Another employee I was coaching complained about me last year. It was my first complaint, after coaching at least 90 other employees, and the employee went on to show a pattern- when they got in trouble for something, they would complain about the "superior" involved to take the heat off themselves. They did this to a few other people, and ended up getting terminated for legitimately cheating doing their job (pretending while not actually doing anything). The other people were management, but since I technically am not (I do some management things, without the title, pay or protection) it was held against me, not them. I almost lost my role. I kept my head down, and tried to do my thing, but a few months later the first dress code issue, then a month or so ago, someone overheard a conversation with an employee about a very similar life experience, and reported me that I *might* have offended the employee. It has been noted that the employee did NOT complain, and we have a good relationship. But when my manager was told, my position was threatened again. I was told my manager was considered not allowing me to talk to employees anymore. I have spent 1/2 a year trying to repair my previously overwhelmingly glowing reputation- truly, I get asked by at least 70 agents when I will be a manager, cuz they want to be on my team- and I am scared to bring to my managers attention that-fair or not- I have had ANOTHER complaint. I can't step down from my role, because it would effectively end any chance of growth, but I feel like I'm under a microscope, and someone(s) are looking for every potential mistep to bring me down.
Honestly start looking for a new job
Why are you doing a role you aren't protected in or compensated fairly to do? Red flag on your company there.
I honestly really like the company I work for. It truly cares about it's employees, and my leaders have always made me feel empowered and supported. I'm neurodivergent, and that isn't the typical experience. It was the first job that made me feel good enough, and even gave me the room to grow, when all other companies could only see the negative attributes of my condition. I became really good at my job, and I wanted to pass on the support I had received. But about 2 years ago, they decided that- while previously the management positions were filled almost exclusively from inside the company, usually promotions from the same department, but sometimes other departments- the last (at least) 26 times it's been filled, only 4 have been within the company. They decided they preferred management experience with no company experience over company experience without management experience. My role was created for internal to take on some of the responsibilities of management to gain experience, so we would better qualify for the promotion. There is almost no chance of moving up in this role, but none at all not in it.
They rigged the game, in other words. Yikes. I'm glad you've felt empowered and supported to this point but what you're posting about is neither supportive nor empowering- it's shady AF.
The company doesn’t care about you.
So the role was created to have you do unpaid labor ... think about that when you say the company cares about you. Do all this extra work for "experience" but we won't compensate you and your ass will be on the line if you mess up. Sounds like a new company is in order
Manager here. You're being fed a line of BS if not several. You need to look for a new job.
Do they truly "care about the employees" if you're feeling this way?
"Family" at work tends to correlate with toxicity allowed to fester.
Yes… you know you need a new job right And you know it’s the same person complaining ?
This falls under the category of sexual or gender-based harassment, imo. Someone is scrutinizing your body at work. That's not ok. I'd push back hard on this and point out to leadership that it's the person making the anonymous complaints who is actually crossing lines.
Yes, I think someone is using the dress code as a way of harassing you.
This is exactly how I feel. Even though both times the managers determined I was in dress code, it is still embarrassing to be called in, and have my body and dress scrutinized to see it it was "appropriate".
I think it’s a good time to consult a lawyer- as a backup to this resulting in the company firing you. It’s not fair that someone is targeting you and using an idiotic dressing style as an excuse to get you penalized.
They can't fire me for this, 1 because I am not even out of dress code, and 2 because I am actually a WFH employee who volunteers to come in to be more available to help. If I had a reason to start worrying, I would just stop going in. I have a right to do so, and am doing the company a favor by going in. I could do 100% of my requirements from home, but there is a lot of other stuff I do because I'm there and able to help.
I’m sorry I’m going to be blunt. Every single person on here is giving you actual helpful advice and you’re ignoring it and making up strange excuses about why you should stay somewhere that is treating you badly, or some convoluted reason why it’s not as bad, or some strange internal process, This company is not promoting you, making it so you’ll never progress, constantly stressing you out that you’re gonna be fired and your reputation is ruined AS WELL AS LETTING SOMEONE REPEATEDLY HARASS YOU VIA COMPLAINTS. Sort it out. Get a new job. This one is horrible and you’re in denial. I know it feels more mature or better to fix it, but sometimes these things aren’t fixable and you’ll be happier once you free yourself from constantly worrying about this stuff.
Besides the things I mentioned that I do like about my company, there are some very attractive benefits that are very hard to find elsewhere, that I am avoiding saying for privacy. I'm not willing to give those up. Because of the benefits, people don't quit, there are at least 50 people in my office alone who have been there 30+ years. I would stop coaching and go back to my regular role and except I'm never getting promoted before ever quitting! And I liked what I did before, I was good at it, and it was easy enough, but I truly enjoy helping other employees succeed, because- like I said- if they can get through the first year, they will want to stay the next 30. Sorry my answers were convoluted, it was the end of a long day, on a long week, so my answers- while still true- were coming from emotion.
If they were a good company they’d have told the person who complained that you didn’t violate any rules instead of repeatedly chastising you and admitting you did nothing wrong. If you think benefits are worth your mental health and all future career progression, and potentially your professional reputation, then we’ll probably just disagree. You aren’t the perp here but you are lengthening a bad situation by refusing to see how bad it is. I am sorry it’s happening because it’s not your fault and you shouldn’t have to leave a good place for a bad persons actions, but it’s coming from managers, they’re handling it wrong and it’s because the company isn’t as good as you think it is. Otherwise they’d behave better. Oh an the common knowledge about people staying for years if they can make the first year. Doesn’t sound good to me. Sounds like a company who knows they have staff over a barrel and treat them however they want or they’ll cut their benefits.
There is a very specific benefit that most people would kill for, that can not be taken. But also, the "HR that isn't HR" I was trying to avoid saying is the Union. So they can't even document these dress code without discussing it with a Union rep. Which would shut it down. That was the HR person I talked to yesterday about my attire. What is being said to me can't be quantified by policy, so it can only be "brought to my attention". That's why I'm not worried about getting fired. But also, no, they can't just take benefits from us. We have a negotiated Union contract. It's good for a set number of years. Once that is up, the company and the union have to agree to any changes.
Sorry when I said benefits from you, I meant through firing or constructive dismissal (making you quit) You should just stop speaking to your managers and go straight to your union (assuming that means the same as it does in the UK) the Union are there to advocate for you. So what they’re doing is dragging you into to an office as part of regular ongoing harassment and they’re intentionally not following policy or procedure because they don’t want the Union to come for them…. Then you should approach the Union. Imagine you’re at school, you’re 6. A teacher is constantly writing you up for things and they aren’t even in the schools policy book, and they intentionally tell you that they aren’t telling your parents. If they were valid in their complaints they’d bring your parents in. If it’s part of a bullying campaign, they’ll try to segregate you from adults who can help.
Why isn’t your union rep part of this? If I were you I’d ask to have them present next time, because it will happen again.
On reflection, it sounds to me like they might be doing this so you can’t ever leave the coaching position and go into management. Are the other people who get harassed about their clothing also trying to progress into this role you more chasing. I personally think your company sounds like it’s exploiting you, keeping you in the role in perpetuity because it’s easier to have you train new people instead of letting you progress and find a new trainer. What they’re doing is open and shut against the law in my country. Constructive dismissal on gender
TBH, the "trying to keep me where I am" is really how it feels for me too, and it sucks. The other women are actually already management. But it seems to stem from employees. The dress code doesn't really get enforced unless it's egregious enough to really get attention. But the agents that get dress coded like to turn around and nit Pic the leaders. So, an agent might get dress coded because their shorts are 6 inches above the knee, and showing more thigh than it covers- which IS out of dress code- and will turn around and try to find issues with "leadership".
Why are they calling you in if they can clearly see your dress is appropriate? I’d ask them why they are bringing it up to you? Unless they want you aware of it for your HR complaint.
As a manager, this nonsense wouldn’t even make it to the employee if it wasn’t out of dress code. If some random staff said something to me about another staff, I’d check if appropriate and if they’re in dress code, it’s not even mentioned. If it’s not, *I* address it from my own personal evaluation (ie, I noticed that you’re wearing a dinosaur costume, and per our policy….). There is no situation that I would say “someone complained, and I’m going to tell you about it.” This is bad management.
You know, there is no dress code policy about dinosaur costumes....
Ha! DO IT! And for the record, our policy doesn’t have anything about length, appropriateness etc. We are an active job so our guidelines are about safety and comfort (you should be able to run, jump, play, and chase children without anything falling down, riding up or coming off. No string ties on swimsuits, be mindful of undergarments showing, and protect yourself from sunburn). Other than that people can wear what they want.
Came to also say this is a SA case!
This is the vibe I’m getting too
Liberal dress code, yet you can't get away with wearing a dress?
Correct. Because people keep making inaccurate complaints about what I wear. In talking to a manager I'm friends with, I did find out that this is apparently a trend with the female leadership at the moment, excessive complaints about attire.
Another red flag. Female leaders are targeted and it's being permitted to continue.
Well, guess it means you're good at your job if they can't find anything else to complain about?!
Maybe, but it is getting to me. Because of my body shape, I make sure ANYTHING I wear is appropriate before wearing it to work. I try it on (again) after I buy it, and have my kids and husband see if it's appropriate for work. Not to short, or too tight, no cleavage, or see through. So I don't know how to dress anymore. I feel genuinely uncomfortable in my own body. And the thing is, I could WFH in my pj, with my heated blanket, and my cat in my lap, but I enjoy what I do! I learned to be good at my job, and now I get to help new employees who may be struggling be successful. I try to dress in a way that exudes leadership, but honestly because I wasn't confident in my role in the beginning, so it felt better to look the part.
A decent company would have someone from HR take a walk and say good morning to you, not say a word about your attire if within dress code, then go back to the person complaining and let them know repeatedly making false allegations against a coworker is a form of harassment.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Or the manager comes over to ask a question, check out the outfit, and then dismiss the complaint. I had a complaint made against me once and it did get back to me, but my manager flat out told the guy “this isn’t middle school” because it was asinine.
Yeeeeeep. Getting called into the office as if this is just the way they MUST address it…is completely unnecessary and degrading. OP, this company doesn’t have your back. You feel needed and good about what you and that’s amazing, but the way they are handling this situation is completely inappropriate and is shaking you up for no reason.
This is… really odd. Honestly— if it was the same person each time, and they determined the first time that you were totally fine, then the managers/hr should just thank that person for telling them and file it away. I feel like this is also an issue that should only be handled by HR? I think it’s odd to have a manager address how you work, unless maybe they are specifically office experience? Idk. It all seems really weird.
It's a company with multiple offices, HR is not in our physical office.
The onus should be on the HR dept to do the investigation and determine the legitimacy of the complaint. It sounds like you have been put on trial and guilty until proven innocent and that’s not how it should be. Sorry you are experiencing this.
But management handles it since they are physically here. And to be fair, neither manager pursued anything, and deemed my clothes (mostly) appropriate. But it's the hassle and embarrassment of repeatedly being pulled aside. With the sweater, I had gotten covid or something over winter, and gained like 20 lbs from being in bed+holidays. I was already feeling self conscious, and that made me feel worse. When I went to my direct manager, while she said she didn't see a problem, sometimes we put on weight, and things don't fit the same. I didn't tell her I had gained weight.....
No one has to tell anyone they've gained or lost twenty pounds although that still sucks. I have struggles with weight fluctuation and what's appropriate or not can change a lot based on where I'm at that month.
I think you need to start documenting. Time, date, photo of outfit from front and back. After another complaint, go to HR for harassment using the dress code in a sexual way for a normal outfit. Use all three examples. Reference each manager who talked to you and thought the outfit did not violate the dress code each time. Make a tidy paper trail that shows HR someone is harassing you and it could be a lovely lawsuit in your favor if it continues (don’t say that they will see that). You say “I’m just trying to do my job but someone is trying to prevent me from doing that). Let them investigate it. Keep documenting if it happens again. If HR does nothing, call a lawyer and get an opinion. Hopefully HR steps up and reprimands whoever is being such a prude.
Still. I think the complaints should still be handled by HR and have it involve as little people as possible. Whoever complained needs to be directed to the HR dept, and HR needs to do the follow up.
You’re right, because OP is being targeted and harassed and HR (representing the company) is allowing that to happen. OP quite possibly has a case for harassment … false dress code violation accusations. Whether their HR office is at that location or not doesn’t matter to the courts. HR should technically investigate repeated violation claims. I’m hoping someone will wise-up and pursue legal action if that continues. It’s a shame OP seems reluctant to stand-up for herself by not bringing her harassment to HR (that would shut down the complainer quickly) but it can be scary to hold a company to task for illegal treatment (which is why this treatment continues).
But HR isn't here to determine whether my clothes is appropriate. So there is the risk they take the complaints at face value.
No HR has a job to protect the company. You have a harassment claim on the basis of gender. HR will know you can sue them and have a good case so they should stop the harassment. Or they’ll sack you because they want you gone, and try to convince you that you don’t have a discrimination case (which you do). I don’t know the term in the US but in the UK it’s constructive dismissal.
Piggybacking on what the other commenter said, I think you should talk to a lawyer. Right now, if they fired you they’d have a paper trail of multiple offenses that could stop you from winning a wrongful termination case. You haven’t formally appealed the complaints so they could use them against you, even though they aren’t true. Consult with a lawyer about the harassment to see if you have a case and to protect yourself. I’m not a lawyer, and I can’t give legal advice. But this sounds like very dangerous territory
Go to HR yourself and tell them what's happening. Either someone is jealous or harassing you. That way when the next inevitable complaint comes in they can treat it appropriately.
Who is going around telling people "I can see OP's black undergarments through her dress"? Like seriously? Whoever is telling you people are saying that is the person I'm concerned about. It could be totally made up by the "messenger."
I don't think it was by the messenger. What I was told was they said it wasn't appropriate for a "leader" and that they could see my "black" (but actually nude) under garments.
OP I am sorry you are going through this. I can see that you have taken a lot of blows to your self esteem because of it. You are caught up in solving a pretend issue (dress code) instead of the real one - that there is a concerted effort to harass female leaders at your company. Stop going to the managers to solve this issue. Go straight to HR and make a sexual harassment claim - don’t wait for the next bullshit dress code. And if you are in the US contact the local EEOC office for assistance. Take the focus off of you and put it back on the company to solve. And if they don’t or won’t you know it is time to leave. You are a worthy human being and deserve better
I am going to talk to the manager from the first complaint, and see if she'll talk to manager 2 and see if it's the same person. She has apologized multiple times for even talking to me the first time, and she never saw a problem.
Is it HR having these conversations with you? It’s ridiculous that whoever it is is bringing a concern to you that they themselves don’t agree with.
Not HR, no. I said HR in my post for anonymity, because the department is not common in most companies, so could help identify me. But it is the twin to HR in that their job directly relates to the knowledge, interpretation, and enforcement of company policies. But also, it has been managers- not HR or "HR"- that are talking to me.
This is really tough. Firstly, from what you’ve described it sounds like your dress professionally and conscientiously, so I don’t think this is a you problem. I think someone has it in for you. That’s not fair and it’s not right. But it also sounds like you’re trying to get a promotion and smooth over some wrinkles from the last year. With that in mind you have two options: fight for what is right, and go head to head with this complainer (risk your job and your reputation in doing so); or keep your head down, change how your dress (pants and sweaters only?), get that promotion and THEN go after them. If I was planning to stay with the company long term I’d probably go with option two. It’s not fair and it’s not right, but sometimes that’s what self-preservation requires.
The complaints were told to me from 2 separate managers, and manager 2 said they'd never heard about complaint 1. Neither would say who complained, so I don't actually know if it is the same person. I just want to find out if it was the same person- I don't even want to know who- and have that noted. Because I feel like this boarders on harrassment, sexual or otherwise. I want it to be taken with a grain of salt next time instead of having to argue if being able to see a tattoo constitutes "sheer" or not. Before bringing me in for the manager to stare at my ass or breasts, or whatever to determine if too much is showing, them having in mind if this is an ongoing issue with the REPORTER, not me. While I have only had the 1 major complaint, I have had 2 other agents- 1 who brought a crossword book to a training, because "these meetings are boring", who I sent back to their desk, and 1 who was struggling and had worked with 3 other coaches before me, but was not improving, but kept blaming the coaches-me included.- who have complained, but did not stick. I want to know, or have it noted if it was one of them, because then it is very likely targeted harassment.
I’m most concerned that about the people who keep having the conversations with you about it. If you’re within dress code then they should be shutting it down without involving you. Just because somebody complains, they don’t have to tell you about the complaint. In fact, they SHOULDN’T be telling you about the complaint. If they review your outfit and code and decide it does not fit then they should just be saying he were notifying you you’re not within dress code today. There’s something majorly weird going on with how this is all being handled. Who is it that’s actually talking to you? Is it management or HR or both?
This completely sucks. From your description here it sounds like your company has long-standing issues about responding to complaints and handling employees. I would be tempted to start looking for a new job. If push comes to shove this company will not have your back. If you can’t look for a new job unfortunately you may have to go extreme and wear only like black pants and tops with sleeves going forward. It’s not right, and you shouldn’t have to, but if your company is going to entertain these stupid complaints about dress code it might be the only way to protect yourself.
The thing is, it's a really good company, and I don't want to leave. This is in issue in my particular department, and office. I plan to apply for a promotion in a different department, and my current role is a stepping stone to that next position. I think I would not be considered in another department if I'm not in this role, and I know that -short of a turn over in upper management in my office- I would NOT have any chance of getting promoted in my current department if I stepped down.
That sucks. It’s hard to be kind of stuck in limbo like that. It’s also infuriating that these complaints are even given the time of day. The employee who made the complaint should have been told its inappropriate to be looking at coworkers underwear and that be the end of it. There should be none of this back and forth with you from the manager when you did nothing wrong. You should not have to change the way you dress but it sounds like this isn’t just you, it’s a company-wide problem targeting female leadership. Since you have your eye on the prize of a promotion I would just start dressing super business conservative and fly under the radar of whoever is making these complaints. I hope you can get that promotion soon!
It also really sucks because right before that, an employee had come to me because they just got a cancer diagnosis, and were distraught. I was not even able to recover from that before hearing bullshit about my dress! This was the 3rd time in 2 days in employee came to me for support in a personal matter (one of the things I love about my company is they are NOT a "leave your problems at the door company. Managers are expected to be someone you can talk to, if you need it) the 3rd person crying in my office that I was able to help in whatever small way. It was incredibly humbling, and I was honored and proud that I could be that safe, trusted place. I did something that really MATTERED. I struggle with depression and anxiety, so all of these caused some pretty complex feelings (sadness for their struggles, pride for being trusted by them, and able to help, then guilt for taking any sort of positive feeling from their suffering). I DID something, I still had other work to do, and feelings swirling, and I'm wasting my time on a made up issue with my stupid fucking dress?!
I’d document. Start wearing pants and see if it happens again. If it does, you’re being targeted. If it doesn’t, maybe your dresses are coming up while walking? Or that person hates dresses. But anywho, wear pants for like 3 months and if no one says anything then go back to dresses. Or say fuck it. Keep wearing dresses and if you get a complaint again, file a sexual harassment complaint
The reason I don't wear pants is that I get a bad case of plumbers crack. I sit all day, with my back to the door/main area in a high traffic area. I started wearing skirts/dresses to avoid complaints.
You can get leotard/bodysuit t-shirts that fix the plumber's crack problem - if you want to approach it that way. Button-up styles like this also exist. It sounds like the way you currently dress is completely appropriate, and you are being harassed for it. So you can either address the harassment through the proper channels, or change the way you dress to see if the harassment stops. Up to you.
Given the promotion that you are working toward that would get you out of this department, and your obvious desire to stay with this company, I'd probably change my clothes in your situation. You shouldn't "have" to do this - but in reality if you want to move up soon, you probably shouldn't make waves. Find a super boring "uniform" that covers up your figure and try to stop thinking about it. Head down and get that promotion!
So maybe the environment I work in has me just aghast at this—but like in my experience, many companies are moving away from the very prescriptive dress codes, because they end up being incredibly sexist as they are generally all about what women wear. They also can be used to target women just like seem to be targeted. Not sure what power you have over the situation, but is it possible to have the dress code policy revisited? We have a “dress for your day” policy so if you have internal meetings, you basically need to look respectable. I tell my team no athleisure, and wear something you would be comfortable in at a family gathering. And for external, you have to be more professional—at least business casual and possibly professional depending on your role.
The "funny" thing is atheleisure is acceptable, as long as it's not spandex, or super short.
I just want to say, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I have been targeted in other ways as it seems lots of older males cannot handle a younger woman advancing, but it would have felt extra shitty about my clothing. I hope you get support in addressing this. I strongly believe when unwarranted complaints are made, that the complaining party needs to be told just that. It is not like you are doing anything purposeful to the complainer.
Thank you, and yeah that's exactly how I feel, someone is basically saying "when I was staring at mandicapped's ass, I realized her skirt looked short/sheer. And instead of saying "so you are admitting your staring at your co-workers ass??" They are telling me that my ass is not appropriate to be stared at.
This is a lot to deal with and I’m sorry you’re going through that. Reminds me of more than 10 years ago when a supervisor called me into her office to tell me my dress was too short. I said, “Really? Who told you that? It goes past my fingers” and I put my hands straight down my leg… she got red and I immediately knew it was her and she just babbled I don’t even know what, but I called her out & she never even spoke to me again 🤣 I wish this could happen for you… but sounds like these anonymous complaints will remain anonymous 👎🏼
Oh wow this is exhausting. To have to think about or question if the next outfit would be called into question.
It really is.
Okay this is ridiculous. If management believes she is dressed appropriately, can't they just say that to the complaining person and move on with their day? Why is she being put through this if nobody agrees with the complainer or has feedback on what needs to change? This is essentially letting an employee know someone is repeatedly talking shit about them. Very unproductive. OP - Even if you eventually get promoted, you will never feel comfortable here after this bs. You are fully capable of landing another job, neurodivergent or not. Don't sell yourself short.
Wow this is so bizarre and I feel awful for you! It feels so invasive like harassment honestly. I hope you’re able to get your managers backing because this feels so wrong. I’m so sorry you’re having to experience this at work
It even led to an argument with my male mentor. He was coming of a place of wanting me to not be upset, but he was like "just get over it, let it go" and I had to explain how invasive it felt. He is always the person I can go to with a problem, and a major part of why I was given this role to begin with, we have NEVER argued in 5 years.
I really advise you to just start dressing business conservative till you get your promotion, as someone else commented. Take your own personal style out of it. I’m sorry to say but you probably have to make sure it’s not flattering to your figure. If it’s a good company that you want to stay with, it’s just not worth it to argue over with your mentors and managers. Things like this are impossibly difficult to pin down and usually nothing comes of it. There is also a huge risk of coming off as difficult, which could cost you big. It’s not worth it. In the words of your male mentor - let it go.
Start documenting. Dates, times, names of witnesses to any behaviors. When you’re pulled in to talk about your dress code violations, follow up with all parties via email with a summary of what was talked about and what was agreed to. Keep that paper trail because someone sounds like they want you fired. BCC your personal email address on these emails. I agree with other commenters here that you are definitely experiencing harassment. So flip their script and make this issue about the harassment you’re experiencing. Use scary legal language and tell them how this is becoming a “hostile work environment.” If this happens just one more time, consult with a lawyer so you have one in your back pocket should they decide to do something stupid and fire you. Don’t change your style at all. Keep being you. Hold your head up high. Be diligent with your documentation. HR will definitely catch on to what you’re doing and hopefully sort it out. But if they don’t, you’ll have a paper trail.
My take on this is that managers have a responsibility to protect their employees when necessary. So, if a manager looks at an employee’s clothing after a dress code complaint to find nothing wrong, that employee should not be spoken to about it at all. The complaining employee should be told why the person is not in violation so they are more aware. If your manager saw something wrong with your outfit, they should correct the issue themselves without the “we’ve received complaints” addition to the conversation. No one needs to be in trouble if nothing is wrong, no one needs to be worried about gossip in either case, and everyone can just get back to work.
If your manager thinks you're dressing appropriately then they shouldn't even be telling you about these complaints. Just telling the other person complaining that they're out of line.
The thing is, they are not seeing me at that moment to discern if what the person is saying is valid. They have to see me, to tell. I did talk to my manager and ask that in the future look without telling me first. Like I'd be fine if they called me in, just said "fine" and let me go, if they did not see an issue. But the other thing is that- while they may have seen me before and not seen an issue, they start looking for issues in what I'm wearing.
File a complaint that you are being sexually harassed. If even HR agrees that someone would need to be sexualizing/objectifying you in order to spot an issue, then use that. Also, if there is no problem with what you’re wearing based on the dress code, and if you have the support of your manager and HR, why are they even bringing this to your attention? It seems they should be talking to the person (bc I do believe it’s one) staring so closely at your body.
You got a complaint for underwear you weren't wearing, that wasn't visible???? Umm you should be looking into harassment charges. Someone is egging you to become inappropriate by response. Simply notify them that there absolutely has been a sexual boundary pushed. And that you feel uncomfortable to perform your job as someone is specifically and sexually targeting you. Even going so far as to tell blatant lies about the underwear you are wearing. Beyond them thinking this is even appropriate to press on is insane. And almost puts you in a place to have to prove your outfit and underwear are appropriate. Which crosses back into that sexual harassment and if it got the point blatant abuse.
Upon your updates.. I'm betting you can make a move to a better paying and more appropriate company.
I think you should keep dressing the way you feel comfortable, which is clearly within the guidelines of the dress code. Also, look for another job. There's no way for you to move up, and newer statistics show that nowadays it does NOT pay to stay at a company. You are more likely to get a higher salary at a new company, maybe a signing bonus, etc. This place doesn't care about you and regardless of the stuff relating to management, your position, etc, if your boss knows you're within the dress code then why even bring it up to you? If I received that complaint, I would investigate myself, and I would tell the complainer that NO this person is not in violation, and i would not mention it to you.
Holy cow. At this point I would make it awkward and show up in either full Victorian gown or like a dress so frumpy and fabric-heavy, a very religious sect would consider it conservative. Or go full Gilead and hand maid’s tale and then respond to anyone who makes comments with “under His Eye” and “blessed be the fruit.”
My family suggested I keep a back-up outfit, a floor length turtle neck, on hand.
I got dress coded by another teacher. She said your boobs are too big for that shirt. You have a gap. I don't have that problem......
Xx9
I personally don’t think how anyone dresses impacts their ability to lead. Which means that trying to dress more like a manager, doesn’t make you a better manager. In a lot of the comments you’ve stated that you try hard to look like a leader but there’s no leader look. Leaders are made from actions. It sounds to me like someone you work with doesn’t like you trying to display “leadership” through your appearance and if you just dressed down like everyone else you’d solve the problem. If you love the job and the company but there’s no room for upward growth, I’d recommend buying into the culture which sounds very casual. It sucks but most people don’t like others who appear to be trying too hard. Blending in and showing leadership through actions isn’t a bad thing.
First, this is terrible advice. The looking like a leader was a "fake it til you make it" strategy when I first started. When I didn't feel like I was manager material, I at least looked like it, and it helped me get through. Also, other female leaders have gotten trouble for wearing clothes that are "too casual" like jeans and flannels. So dressing down isn't the answer either.
You said you could wear sweats every day, it’s that type of casual. So which is it? You have to dress up or you don’t? If only women get comments on their clothing, it sounds like a terrible culture and I think it’s more to the problem
Technically dress code allows sweats, since I'm considered "leadership" there are comments if we dress to casual. So I could, and I couldn't be Technically disciplined, but my direct manager would make comments if my outfit is not appropriate for a leader.