The irony is that these “military-grade explosives” they are getting hit with, are their own.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-weapons-rockets.html
How so? UsA carpet bombed Vietnam and israel is using more expensive J dams instead of inaccurate artillery like Russian did to populated Ukrainian cities during the initial invasion.
You are so far from the truth. You are stating UN verified numbers feom Ukraine. Verified deaths by definition in Gaza are zero. They have zero verified deaths.
According to Ukraine, their agencies and President (since you are using Hamas numbers we will use comparable matrix for Ukraine)
25'000 civillians were killed in less than three mo ths during the Siege of Mauripol alone....just that city.
>You are so far from the truth.
What is the truth then?
>According to Ukraine, their agencies and President (since you are using Hamas numbers we will use comparable matrix for Ukraine
I'm using the (only) source that is confirmed to be reliable for Gaza.
For Ukraine I'm using Ukraine's prosecutor generals office number as of October 2nd 2023.
The facts are Israel are by a large margin the far worse terrorist state. The scale is off the charts.
Palestine killed 1200 of which 57% were civilians
Israel has killed over 25,000 of which over 70% are women and children
I agree they're both terrorists. Israel just happens to be far far worse.
If you want to compare UN numbers that have been confirmed then wait for UN numbers to verify in the same way they did it Ukraine to happen in Gaza. Wait for the totals to be separated from combatants.
You are using Hamas numbers as the only credible source and discrediting Ukraine numbers in a magic change of hands.
Selecting data from one side is a terrible strategy, extremely biased, and wildy inaccurate.
The deaths of children in Gaza is astronomical and is terrible.
But your using selective bias.
The USA has numbers of killed citizens in various wars if theirs, Iraq, Afghanistan, bombing Pamistan, Yemen etc. Those countries, journalists and agencies there have much higher numbers.
If you want to only use numbers from one side then apply that same standard to all conflicts.
The statistics in Civillian deaths to Comatant deaths in Hamas/Israel War are similar and even lower in many cases when comparing to ither recent conflicts in high high density population centers.
I detest all of them, all are a tradgredy from all nations and equal evaluation methods should be applied to all conflicts.
https://www.worldpressphoto.org/collection/photo-contest/2023/Evgeniy-Maloletka/10#:~:text=The%20UN%20Human%20Rights%20Office,figure%20is%20more%20than%2025%2C000.
>If you want to compare UN numbers that have been confirmed then wait for UN numbers to verify in the same way they did it Ukraine to happen in Gaza. Wait for the totals to be separated from combatants.
Israel isn't allowing the UN or independent humanitarian rights groups in. The numbers from the Palestinian Health Ministry are deemed reliable since they have been accurate all times previously.
>If you want to only use numbers from one side then apply that same standard to all conflicts.
You go by numbers which are independently verified if at all possible. In the case of Gaza, there is only a single source since Israel is blocking everybody else. That source is reliable as the numbers have always been accurate in previous conflicts.
>The statistics in Civillian deaths to Comatant deaths in Hamas/Israel War are similar and even lower in many cases when comparing to ither recent conflicts in high high density population centers.
This is just so far wrong, it isn't worth responding to. Israel's massacres are off the scale for this century.
Oh, look, the first Cheechen war had 4000 dead soldiers for 40'000 dead civillians on one side. A ratio of 1/10
Even the absolute lowest most trash estimates of dead combatant to Civillian ratios are no where in that in Gaza right now despite being an army who is know for human shields and deliberately firing rockets from populated civllian buildings.
You are spewing so many biased lies. Take some time to read about modern conflicts, especially in densely populated areas. Take some time to read about the numbers and assessments from various sources, the weaknesses and strengths of each source.
It would do you good to educate yourself if you are capable of putting aside your bias and actually looking into things from multiple angles.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio
>For your education, and all of which debunk all of your talking points:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-death-toll.html
More women and children have been reported killed in Gaza in less than two months than the roughly 7,700 civilians documented as killed by U.S. forces and their international allies in the entire first year of the invasion of Iraq in 2003, according to estimates from Iraq Body Count, an independent British research group.
And the number of women and children reported killed in Gaza since the Israeli campaign began last month has already started to approach the roughly 12,400 civilians documented to have been killed by the United States and its allies in Afghanistan during nearly 20 years of war, according to Neta C. Crawford, a University of Oxford professor who is co-director of Brown University’s Costs of War Project.
These comparisons are based on the thousands of deaths directly attributed to U.S. coalition forces over decades in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. Far more people — hundreds of thousands in total — are estimated to have been killed in these conflicts by other groups, including the Syrian government and its allies, local militias, the Islamic State and the Iraqi security forces.
But while the overall death tolls in those wars were larger, the number of people killed in Gaza “in a very short period of time is higher than in other conflicts,” said Professor Crawford, who has extensively researched modern wars.
More children have been killed in Gaza since the Israeli assault began than in the world’s major conflict zones combined — across two dozen countries — during all of last year, even with the war in Ukraine, according to U.N. tallies of verified child deaths in armed conflict.
**The scale of Palestinian civilian deaths in such a short period of time appears to be the highest such civilian casualty rate in the 21st century,” said Michael Lynk, who served as the U.N. special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories from 2016 to 2022.**
>
>
>
>https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/
Furthermore, in the past, various international bodies commented favorably on the Hamas ministry's level of accuracy, and even Dr. Michael Milshtein, formerly the head of the department of Palestinian affairs in Israeli Military Intelligence, noted, in connection with another report, that "Hamas is an organization of numbers and accuracy." This data may be revised in the future, following investigations by other organizations, but the initial information is sufficient to indicate the basic picture of the situation, from which we can draw practical conclusions.
From an international comparative perspective, too, this is a high figure, considering that in new wars fought during the 20th century (after WWII and up until the 1990s), about half of those killed were civilians – and this includes wars in which the most important component was ground combat, not relatively precise strikes from the air. In light of such a high proportion of noncombatants among those killed in Swords of Iron, we may suspect that the principle of discrimination was not upheld or perhaps that the principle of proportionality was subject to a highly flexible interpretation. Thus, rather than this being a case of "collateral damage," it was the reverse: Because most of those harmed are civilians, what was produced is "collateral benefit," in the form of a low number of Gazan combatants killed.
https://archive.is/lyMUH
Worst of our century?
Partly correct, there are UN refugee agencies and acruslly a few others in Gaza but in large the proper agencies are not allowed in at the moment and might not be allowed for a very very long time. That is unfortunate indeed. Finally you said something truthful.
Please see a list of some of the worst genocides of our century linked below.
Work on your bias and lies, it will help prevent further wars. May we all live in ✌️
https://www.britannica.com/list/8-deadliest-wars-of-the-21st-century
Imagine using Britannica as a source.
Don't accuse people of lying who clearly have studied it, whereas you've just googled something.
For your education, and all of which debunk all of your talking points:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-death-toll.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-death-toll.html)
>More women and children have been reported killed in Gaza in less than two months than the roughly 7,700 civilians documented as killed by U.S. forces and their international allies in the entire first year of the invasion of Iraq in 2003, according to estimates from Iraq Body Count, an independent British research group.
And the number of women and children reported killed in Gaza since the Israeli campaign began last month has already started to approach the roughly 12,400 civilians documented to have been killed by the United States and its allies in Afghanistan during nearly 20 years of war, according to Neta C. Crawford, a University of Oxford professor who is co-director of Brown University’s Costs of War Project.
These comparisons are based on the thousands of deaths directly attributed to U.S. coalition forces over decades in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. Far more people — hundreds of thousands in total — are estimated to have been killed in these conflicts by other groups, including the Syrian government and its allies, local militias, the Islamic State and the Iraqi security forces.
But while the overall death tolls in those wars were larger, the number of people killed in Gaza “in a very short period of time is higher than in other conflicts,” said Professor Crawford, who has extensively researched modern wars.
>
>More children have been killed in Gaza since the Israeli assault began than in the world’s major conflict zones combined — across two dozen countries — during all of last year, even with the war in Ukraine, according to U.N. tallies of verified child deaths in armed conflict.
>
>The scale of Palestinian civilian deaths in such a short period of time appears to be the highest such civilian casualty rate in the 21st century,” said Michael Lynk, who served as the U.N. special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories from 2016 to 2022.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/)
>Furthermore, in the past, various international bodies commented favorably on the Hamas ministry's level of accuracy, and even Dr. Michael Milshtein, formerly the head of the department of Palestinian affairs in Israeli Military Intelligence, noted, in connection with another report, that "Hamas is an organization of numbers and accuracy." This data may be revised in the future, following investigations by other organizations, but the initial information is sufficient to indicate the basic picture of the situation, from which we can draw practical conclusions.
>
>
>
>From an international comparative perspective, too, this is a high figure, considering that in new wars fought during the 20th century (after WWII and up until the 1990s), about half of those killed were civilians – and this includes wars in which the most important component was ground combat, not relatively precise strikes from the air. In light of such a high proportion of noncombatants among those killed in Swords of Iron, we may suspect that the principle of discrimination was not upheld or perhaps that the principle of proportionality was subject to a highly flexible interpretation. Thus, rather than this being a case of "collateral damage," it was the reverse: Because most of those harmed are civilians, what was produced is "collateral benefit," in the form of a low number of Gazan combatants killed.
>
>[https://archive.is/lyMUH](https://archive.is/lyMUH)
[I mean even the IDF believes the numbers are generally accurate](https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3w4w7/israeli-intelligence-health-ministry-death-toll)
The irony is Israel is using more expensive J dams to have more precise bombings instead of blasting indiscriminately with artillery shells like Russian did during the initial invasion of Ukraine.
This is a lie. Various sources that you can easily look up tell us that HALF of the bombs Israel dropped so far were unguided “dummy” bombs. US confirmed it. They would know… they sold them to Israel.
https://www.stripes.com/theaters/middle_east/2023-12-14/israel-dumb-bombs-strikes-gaza-12363263.html
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/us-intel-indicates-half-of-all-weapons-dropped-by-israel-on-gaza-are-dumb-bombs-report/3082836#
Do you understand dummy bombs are also dropped with precision? Anyone who brings up this "dummy" bomb as a gotcha is just ignorant. You could spend two seconds on google to learn that.
“Qatari financing” huh I wonder what monsters delivered Qatari money straight to Hamas? Oh wait we know exactly who! Zionists did!
So that makes it weapons (directly and indirectly) and finance delivered by yours truly. Thank you for the friendly reminder that Zionists support terrorism as a means to conquer more land!
https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12?amp
Why do I need to tell them what they already know? “Nazi scum lord”… considering Zionists openly support throwing Palestinians out by force, call them subhuman, and kill them by the thousands… we both know Zionists and their shills are a better comparison for nazis than I’ll ever be. Thanks for a decent term to compare them to!
Your shill response isn’t even bright enough to retort anything I said because you know those are simple facts. Thats why you resort to name calling. Have a nice day being miserable on the internet! I’ve said all I need to and you won’t exactly give me anything intellectual to respond to.
Brainwashed man big time sad for you and the irrational section of the world. Hamas got you good. Real good. Honestly gotta give them round of applause for this PR shit since October. Hell of a job
So...maybe don't keep fighting and resolve this? Is this article trying to generate sympathy after the world watched them blast someone holding a child's hand?
IDF kills thousands of women and children, not an ounce of sympathy. A grown ass man tries to kill a bunch of women and children and gets hurt, suddenly Israel is all tears.
It's really creepy how obsessed you guys are with rape. I'd bet everything that you're nowhere to be found when it comes to supporting rape victims in your entourage.
What?? You’re the ones who deny that Jewish women were raped and killed on a mass scaled on Oct 7th
In Abu Kabir, I examined incinerated remnants of teeth and bones; charred remains of children; and physical cadavers of victims. I read CT scans of children and adults bound together and burned alive. I viewed images of a decapitated young girl, her child skull tethered to her trunk by only a sliver of decaying skin. Her facial expression, surrounding milk teeth, haunts me still. Across the boundaries of death, her Edward Munch-like scream still echoes.
Sergeant Major Natah Katz from the IDF Rabbinical Unit at the Shura base near Ramle described to me cadavers he received with breasts and genitals hacked off, one with a knife impaled directly into the vagina. The mutilation of sexual organs and breasts, "seemed to be an obsession," he recalled. Dr. Chen Kugel, head of Israel's National Forensic Center has confirmed to me the same.
Indeed, Hamas arrived with orders to mass rape: Phrasebooks belonging to Hamas found in the Re'im area listed phonetic Hebrew commands in Arabic "Take your clothes off!"; " Spread your legs!'; "Get down!" Terabytes of their own video data confirm Hamas raped, amputated breasts, mutilated women's genitals, and committed systematic sexual crimes on both the living and the dead. Necrophilia has been explicitly reported.
https://www.newsweek.com/i-saw-children-hamas-beheaded-my-own-eyes-shame-queen-rania-opinion-1855472
Do you condemn the rape of this small Palestinian boy by the IDF who had imprisoned him ?
[source](https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=OSYkdEcxdn3tQpFw&v=Zrb_cb6-rHI&feature=youtu.be)
Okay... So you don't think the IDF should be better than Hamas? Seems like you're only against the killing of Israeli civilians as opposed to the murder of civilians in general?
Anyone who has been paying attention knows full well that Israel is mass murdering Palestinian children. Or maybe you don’t see Palestinian children as children? Or as people?
Because they have proven themselves to be undeserving of sympathy. I’ve seen so many disgusting comments from Israelis about how Palestinian civilians aren’t suffering enough and how they should all be done away with. I don’t care what happens to people like that.
How do you expect them to fight like men against other *armed* men when they have been oppressing unarmed innocent palestinian civilians for the past decades?
Yep, they're just so used to fighting women and children that they weren't prepared for actual combat. Gonna be a lot of crippled, disfigured IDF rolling around after this is over.
Any IDF thinking they are being heroic by fighting for good are in for a rude awakening. There will likely be very strong anti-israeli-veteran sentiment after this similar to post Vietnam war in the US.
Go kill an organization that was created and propped up by your government, get PTSD, lose some limbs, go back and get hate for being the most cruel and incompetent army in the world. Why would anyone want to be IDF?
They don't think they are fighting for good. they are sadistic blood thirsty murderers who have been pining for the chance to kill some women and children.
[There's definitely some dissent.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/1aeym34/israel_police_beating_up_antizionist_jews/) The ruling party is 110% behind it but it's certainly conceivable that a later wave in politics will look back at this as the war crime fiesta that it is.
Hopefully this will further backfire on Israel, as the people will expect to be compensated/taken care of by the state. Either this burns a hole in the budget of Israel, and the people get fed up with increased military spending and benefits, or the vets get neglected and fester resentment towards the government. Either way, this will definitely foster instability in the coming years.
Not even an actual military. Irregulars with mostly salvaged and stolen gear, no armor, no air support. If the modern IDF ever faced an actual army they'd get slaughtered
Everytime they do face troops on the ground, they get rekt. Then they bomb civilians from the air in retaliation to make themselves feel better. They have a military doctrine called the Dahiya doctrine, named after an area in Beirut that they bombed in 2006 after losing like little pussies on the ground fighting against Hezbollah. The idea is to kill civilians, terrorise them, bomb their infrastructure. The theory is that the civilians will then put pressure on armed groups/their government to stop military action to prevent more Israeli air force bombings of civilians.
You…you realize that they are actively engaged in combat at the border regions of both Lebanon and Syria with national armed forces, right? Like, if you don’t know that, that’s fine, but just keep your ignorance to yourself rather than opening your mouth and making us all dumber.
Hezbollah isnt the national armed forces of Lebanon, and fighting between Israel and the armed forces of Syria had involved a couple hundred soldiers at most. The enlisted IDF personnel operating in Gaza does not have combat experience, the vast majority of those troops are seeing combat for the first time.
You are correct that Hezbollah is not *technically* a part of the Syrian armed forces. Hezbollah is also considered to be on of the most — if not the most — powerful non-state actors in the world, with approximately 50 thousand fighters. It’s military has a +$700 million budget, and it has fought alongside Lebanon’s armed forces. According to the NYT, it is stronger than the Lebanese army (https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/world/middleeast/syria-developments.html). It also has guided missiles, rockets, and drones it’s arsenal, in addition to tanks and other armored vehicles.
I was wrong to specifically state that Israel is engaged in broad fighting with national militaries, but Israel is certainly engaged in fighting with one of the world’s most organized, strongest, non-state militant group that dwarfs the strength of Lebanon’s own army.
That's fair enough, but Lebanon is essentially a failed state so it doesn't take much to be stronger than its official armed forces. At 50k militants and 700m, that's indeed pretty big for a paramilitary group, but it would be considered pathetically small as an army. For comparison, that's a third the size and less than a fifth the budget of the military of the Philippines, which, while populous, is dirt poor and not often involved in conflicts, and most certainly not considered by anyone to be a militarily powerful - or even present - nation.
Insane cope. There have been under 300 IDF fatalies so far with over 9.000 Hamas dead and roughly 50% of Hamas unable to fight due to being either too wounded, arrested or dead. The numbers for the IDF are significantly better than even the most optimistic estimates before the war started. And this is with Israel using like 1/3 of their military in an extremely restrained way. You are very delusional and just have no idea what you are talking about
That's pretty rich as a comment under this particular article lmao. No one's saying hamas is winning the conflict, it's pretty obvious they're not. But the current idf's unprofessional behavior and lack of training shows, these are the worst losses they've had in a generation.
Amazing what you can do to an enemy without anti aircraft capability. The biggest single cause of fatalities was idf soldiers leaving a load of explosives guarded by a single tank, which was set off by militants.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-deadliest-incident-of-gaza-combat-21-soldiers-killed-as-buildings-collapse-in-blast/
A significant portion of hamas small arms weapons comes from insufficiently guarded idf supply dumps/bases.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/much-of-hamas-explosives-comes-from-idf-fire-that-failed-to-detonate-report/
17% of idf casualties are friendly fire.
https://www.npr.org/2024/01/26/1226977365/israel-idf-gaza-middle-east-deaths
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-hamas-war-friendly-fire-incidents-gaza-soldiers-killed-rcna135089
These are indicators of poor training, lack of experience, or the assumption that your enemy will not attack you. And that's without considering how many people have been killed surrendering,including Israeli hostages.
I mean, you are just blatantly ignorant and misinformed on how combat works. Israel is fighting terrorists in a dense urban environment, who hide behind civilians in tunnels and yet, compared to the US Military in Operation Desert Storm, Israel has better friendly fire rates, better civilian casualty rates, and significantly better enemy to friendly death rates. So you are saying that the US military is poorly trained and lacking in experience?
Desert storm was 30 years ago. The ability to protect soldiers in combat has grown measurably since then. Soldiers in the 90s were certainly not trained, equipped, and supported nearly as well as they are today. By today's standards, the Americans who fought in the gulf war *were* poorly trained. So were those who fought in Vietnam.
Worth noting that the total US casualties in desert storm was under 300, lower than the current casualties suffered by the idf
All the numbers in your comment added up to 420. Congrats!
30
+ 90
+ 300
= 420
^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \
^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
Arab nations might beg to differ lol. But other countries are always welcome to try?
That was hamas hope, post the October 7th attack. Didn't happen though.
I guess I'm lost on your premise.
Modern armies engaged in mosul ended up with what 5:1 ratio. That's the us, which can face a modern army.
Meanwhile russia in ukraine is doing what, 10:1? With the acoutrements of modern artillery airpower...
While israel is surgically going at 2:1 ratio for civilian to combatants.
Given the past track record against foreign states with air forces, compared to modern wars, modern states with all forms of warfare, it seems to me like israel would do fine.
Cause a good comparison to this conflict is the chechen wars, and israel is doing far far better both in terms of civilian casualties than the Russians, and their own wounded.
Israel is up to 400 injured or killed, and has eliminated 10k militants with 20k civilian casualties.
Compared to Russia in chechen losing 50k men, killing 250k civilians while also only killed around 10k chechen soldiers.
Then compare that with how the modern state and us activities in the middle east it's pretty clear israel would do fine against a modern state.
And don't forget they also engaged with Russian green men in Syria.
Point is israel would do fine.
You asked if they fought a modern army?
Israel's wars have always and will always be defensive.
It's really weird you think modern armies won't do well against israel when they have the same assets, and israel has more of them.
Like... you do realize Russian army is 100k while Israel's at any given time is around 400k...?
You're playing in wishful thinking israel could be defeated by any state right now other than the usa and China, and even they are really suspect given their last war was also against Vietnam... and they lost handedly.
I asked about today's enlisted. Israel invaded Lebanon in 2006 and was fought to a stalemate by goatherders with 40 year old weapons. Not exactly a defensive war. Neither is the current invasion in gaza. You're confusing retaliation with defense.
The idf simply has no current experience against an actual uniformed army, and it shows. Leaving weapons for your opponent to capture and use against you is rookie shit.
Eh, if people are going to make the claim israel won't do well in modern war they're going to have to back it up.
Israel, in each war, fought excellently to the metrics at the time. Given Israel's army has only grown and remained modernized, it's more on you guys to demonstrate Israel's incapability.
Usa also ended up getting bogged down with insurgencies, not sure if that's relevant to if either power could engage with modern warfare.
Which they can.
When your enemy's primary supply line is *stealing from your bases* and their munitions are *your own abandoned ordnance* you have a problem. When you lose 30 soldiers because they left explosives unguarded, your soldiers lack training. When you have a 17% friendly fire casualty rate, you aren't going to win against professionals. When your forces shoot hostages waving white flags, that's an indicator that they aren't accustomed to actual combat. All the proof is there for everyone to see.
Have you seen the casualties of the Lebanon war? Israels lost 121 soldiers ... Israel took out way more enemies and decemated their infrastructure and then there was a ceasefire. Israels goal wasn't to occupy all of Lebanon, they definitely came out on top there.
You should edit the Wikipedia article if you're so sure. I can't really believe this has to be said, but the number of casualties does not determine the outcome of a conflict.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War
I can assure you, in any war with a genuinely capable military that didn't allow Israel to cling to America's balls like some US tax-dollar sucking lamprey, that you would find out extremely quickly just how wrong your propaganda addled brain is.
> Israel could beat Russia
Lol just lol
Israel’s coming into being started with offensive. But they don’t teach about the Nakba in Israel so you wouldn’t know. Fake IDF shill account. The world hates you for the Gaza genocide, catch up:
https://time.com/6559293/morning-consult-israel-global-opinion/
Hamas isnt a military and is in no way as equipped or trained as a modern professional (read: not conscripted) military. They have no air support, no armor, very little artillery, no naval support, no ground-mounted (or even vehicle mounted) surface-to-air capability...
They use some arms and munitions salvaged from unexploded enemy ordnance and looted from bases. That's not a hallmark of a functioning military.
They are objectively a military organisation. they are armed with Russian Kalashnikov's, Russian RPGs, Russian grenades...certainly not scavenged from israel, you're just making shit up and hoping nobody notices you don't know what you're talking about.
Take it up with the new york times
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-weapons-rockets.html
Or the times of israel
https://www.timesofisrael.com/much-of-hamas-explosives-comes-from-idf-fire-that-failed-to-detonate-report/
Objectively a military organization is fine. That doesn't make them a modern army. No planes and no tanks, no AA capability. You know, those things that are critical to modern warfare.
No it's not. It's a cheap stupid article trying to get us have some sympathy for IDF and less for the civilian they killed, despite them being so overwhelmingly superior to anything Hamas throws at them.
The IDF has lost less than 200 people in order to kill 25000 people, and destroyed 50% of all the building in Gaza. But even that is not representative: you have to remember: this is a ground invasion in an urban environment, i.e. the worst case scenario, and still the IDF is basically levelling Gaza essentially unopposed.
I think its important to have empathy for both sides. Human suffering is human suffering.
Both sides' leadership have made unconscionable decisions.
Most of the soldiers and civilians who have found themselves on the front line did not make this decision or choose to be here.
So they shouldn't enlist in the IDF if they don't want to be there. They get a slap on the wrist and a few days in jail for not enlisting. But they chose the other option which includes killing children
Isn't there conscription in Israel
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription\_in\_Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Israel)
I am assuming there are some harsh penalties for not going.
"As of 2022, the minimum required length of military service is two years and eight months (with some roles requiring an additional four months of service) for all conscripted men, and two years (with some roles requiring an additional eight months of service) for conscripted Jewish women.\[1\] Once they have completed their mandatory term of service, all discharged citizens remain eligible to be called up for reserve duty until the age of 40. "
https://www.newsweek.com/benjamin-netanyahu-children-are-coming-under-fire-1838274
Lives in Miami and has avoided all active duty. Of course he still talks a ton about the war on the internet though. Here’s a quote from that article.
U.K. newspaper The Times this week published a report detailing how some of the hundreds of Israelis living abroad who have flown home as reservists have accused Netanyahu's eldest son, Yair Netanyahu, of "abandoning" his country.
At 32, Yair Netanyahu, who moved to Florida earlier this year, is eligible for reserve duty, as the cut-off age is 40. One reservist quoted in The Times article said Yair Netanyahu was "enjoying his life at Miami Beach while I'm on the front lines."
I think you’re a little confused. Nobody is saying Netanyahu himself should go and fight in Gaza. That would be the analogous situation. Similarly, nobody can enter Gaza to fight, really. There aren’t flights of reserve soldiers flying into Gaza to fight for Hamas. That would be the analogous situation to reserve soldiers from America coming to Israel.
I'm sure all those soldiers, as they're losing limbs, are being treated while being anaesthetised. Unlike all the Palestinian civilians who are having their limbs amputated without any anaesthetic whatsoever.
Israel is a paper Tiger. They want to look tough against the ragtag Palestinians, but would never face Iran, Turkey, Syria or even half of Yemen.
They are bunch of wimps
They withdrew from a landmass as big as Israel itself. If that's not weakness, I don't know what is.
Normally countries never surrender territory gained, unless they are weak
You know that they won the war that gave them the Sinai in the first place right? They’re so weak they clobbered both Syria and Egypt at the same time and managed to take territory from both? lol. That’s some pretty heavy cope. I’m guessing you’re from Egypt and that’s how they try to spin such a devastating defeat as a win. lol.
Israel gave up the Sinai as part of a peace deal to normalize relations with Egypt. Which it did. Egypt has not fought them for over 40 years and while they are not allies they at least have a productive relationship. All they had to do was give up a worthless strip of desert that wasn’t even theirs to begin with. They took out their largest regional rival and all they had to give up was desert. Seems like a win to me unless you’re so stupid you think the only winner is the one that has the most dirt at the end.
If you’re a Neanderthal who only thinks in terms of violence and conflict then I guess it could be hard to see how Israel is in a much stronger position now than it was then. You’ve already made it clear you’re on the losing side of history though, we already know you’re not smart enough to see anything except through the lens of violence.
That happened ages ago. Egypt was using camels because they didn't have tanks. Egypt was a British colony for most of 20th century and late 19th. The British occupied military Egypt, preventin the creation of an effective army.
Only Jordan, had a trained, professional fighting force.
Lebanon was also recently a French colony. With no strength. What about now? We don't see Israel facing Iran or the Houthis
Yes they did use camels. The most famous Egyptian movie "the land" shows how their "police/army" was equipped in the 1930s. Yes, camels.
And no, they didn't have the Messerschmitt German planes like Israel did. The Jewish equipment was way better quality and more modern than any Arab
For someone with “historian” in their name you don’t know shit about history. The last war between the Arabs and Israel was in 1973, not the 30’s. Both sides were using jets, not Messerschmitts. Moron.
I was talking about 1948. And by the way, the jews ended up losing the Sinai forever because they were not brave enough to fight for it. So that's the jewish doctrine. Fight the Palestinians because they are weak, but don't fight against regular armies.like Iran, Syria because of their fear of losing. Bunch of wimps
The Israelis have beat the shit out of the Egyptians and Syrians every time they fought. So far they’re 3-0. They have yet to lose a war. Egypt hasn’t won a war since Ptolemy. Lol
The got the Sinai back. Because the jews were too scared to keep it. And so far, the Assad regime is still in power in Syria, so that proves Israel is a failure in keeping the Middle East under their control
Hey don't disrupt the narrative. Israel is always the bad guy according to this sub. They have no right to defend themselves when they are attacked and it would be better if Israel just laid down and was destroyed and all 10 million Israeli citizens were murdered.
That's what worldevents and it's mods believe. This subreddit promots jihadists propaganda and dreams of Israel's destruction.
IOF is imposing worse than this on literal children so I can't find much sympathy within myself for Israeli soldiers finally getting a taste of their own medicine
Remind us again how the west is directly supporting those genocides, clown?
Aside the one in Congo Basin, the West Supports IsNotReal and IsNotReal supports that genocide so you win that one.
Someone in this sub called it the deadliest war in the 21st century. It's not even the deadliest conflict of the past couple years.
Like LMAO, there was a period in Ukraine where more people were dying each week than total dead in this conflict.
And then there was the second Congo War, that one happened 20 years ago, that killed over 5 million.
The death toll in Mariupol is 20,000 alone.
Russia doesn't allow the UN into occupied territory so there in no way of knowing exactly how many are dead.
And that's only if you count civilians, all of Ukraine's soldiers are about as innocent as the average Gazan and they have been killed in their tens of thousands. Remember it wasn't thr AFU that started the war by invading Russia and murdering civilians for the hell of it, and it wasn't Ukrainian civilians cheering in the streets at massacred Russian civilians.
The irony is that these “military-grade explosives” they are getting hit with, are their own. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-weapons-rockets.html
Yeah, that's kind of the key point here. They are crying that they are getting back a tiny fraction of the damage they are inflicting.
What goes around **always** comes around
Karma is a bitch
Oh wow this is very Vietnam war core
How so? UsA carpet bombed Vietnam and israel is using more expensive J dams instead of inaccurate artillery like Russian did to populated Ukrainian cities during the initial invasion.
Russia needs to bump their kid killing numbers up. They only managed to kill 600 kids in two years. Israel got to 10,000 in only two months!
You are so far from the truth. You are stating UN verified numbers feom Ukraine. Verified deaths by definition in Gaza are zero. They have zero verified deaths. According to Ukraine, their agencies and President (since you are using Hamas numbers we will use comparable matrix for Ukraine) 25'000 civillians were killed in less than three mo ths during the Siege of Mauripol alone....just that city.
>You are so far from the truth. What is the truth then? >According to Ukraine, their agencies and President (since you are using Hamas numbers we will use comparable matrix for Ukraine I'm using the (only) source that is confirmed to be reliable for Gaza. For Ukraine I'm using Ukraine's prosecutor generals office number as of October 2nd 2023. The facts are Israel are by a large margin the far worse terrorist state. The scale is off the charts.
Absolute nonsense.
Go on. What is nonsense
Palestine is the terror state
Palestine killed 1200 of which 57% were civilians Israel has killed over 25,000 of which over 70% are women and children I agree they're both terrorists. Israel just happens to be far far worse.
If you want to compare UN numbers that have been confirmed then wait for UN numbers to verify in the same way they did it Ukraine to happen in Gaza. Wait for the totals to be separated from combatants. You are using Hamas numbers as the only credible source and discrediting Ukraine numbers in a magic change of hands. Selecting data from one side is a terrible strategy, extremely biased, and wildy inaccurate. The deaths of children in Gaza is astronomical and is terrible. But your using selective bias. The USA has numbers of killed citizens in various wars if theirs, Iraq, Afghanistan, bombing Pamistan, Yemen etc. Those countries, journalists and agencies there have much higher numbers. If you want to only use numbers from one side then apply that same standard to all conflicts. The statistics in Civillian deaths to Comatant deaths in Hamas/Israel War are similar and even lower in many cases when comparing to ither recent conflicts in high high density population centers. I detest all of them, all are a tradgredy from all nations and equal evaluation methods should be applied to all conflicts. https://www.worldpressphoto.org/collection/photo-contest/2023/Evgeniy-Maloletka/10#:~:text=The%20UN%20Human%20Rights%20Office,figure%20is%20more%20than%2025%2C000.
>If you want to compare UN numbers that have been confirmed then wait for UN numbers to verify in the same way they did it Ukraine to happen in Gaza. Wait for the totals to be separated from combatants. Israel isn't allowing the UN or independent humanitarian rights groups in. The numbers from the Palestinian Health Ministry are deemed reliable since they have been accurate all times previously. >If you want to only use numbers from one side then apply that same standard to all conflicts. You go by numbers which are independently verified if at all possible. In the case of Gaza, there is only a single source since Israel is blocking everybody else. That source is reliable as the numbers have always been accurate in previous conflicts. >The statistics in Civillian deaths to Comatant deaths in Hamas/Israel War are similar and even lower in many cases when comparing to ither recent conflicts in high high density population centers. This is just so far wrong, it isn't worth responding to. Israel's massacres are off the scale for this century.
Oh, look, the first Cheechen war had 4000 dead soldiers for 40'000 dead civillians on one side. A ratio of 1/10 Even the absolute lowest most trash estimates of dead combatant to Civillian ratios are no where in that in Gaza right now despite being an army who is know for human shields and deliberately firing rockets from populated civllian buildings. You are spewing so many biased lies. Take some time to read about modern conflicts, especially in densely populated areas. Take some time to read about the numbers and assessments from various sources, the weaknesses and strengths of each source. It would do you good to educate yourself if you are capable of putting aside your bias and actually looking into things from multiple angles. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio
>For your education, and all of which debunk all of your talking points: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-death-toll.html More women and children have been reported killed in Gaza in less than two months than the roughly 7,700 civilians documented as killed by U.S. forces and their international allies in the entire first year of the invasion of Iraq in 2003, according to estimates from Iraq Body Count, an independent British research group. And the number of women and children reported killed in Gaza since the Israeli campaign began last month has already started to approach the roughly 12,400 civilians documented to have been killed by the United States and its allies in Afghanistan during nearly 20 years of war, according to Neta C. Crawford, a University of Oxford professor who is co-director of Brown University’s Costs of War Project. These comparisons are based on the thousands of deaths directly attributed to U.S. coalition forces over decades in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. Far more people — hundreds of thousands in total — are estimated to have been killed in these conflicts by other groups, including the Syrian government and its allies, local militias, the Islamic State and the Iraqi security forces. But while the overall death tolls in those wars were larger, the number of people killed in Gaza “in a very short period of time is higher than in other conflicts,” said Professor Crawford, who has extensively researched modern wars. More children have been killed in Gaza since the Israeli assault began than in the world’s major conflict zones combined — across two dozen countries — during all of last year, even with the war in Ukraine, according to U.N. tallies of verified child deaths in armed conflict. **The scale of Palestinian civilian deaths in such a short period of time appears to be the highest such civilian casualty rate in the 21st century,” said Michael Lynk, who served as the U.N. special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories from 2016 to 2022.** > > > >https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/ Furthermore, in the past, various international bodies commented favorably on the Hamas ministry's level of accuracy, and even Dr. Michael Milshtein, formerly the head of the department of Palestinian affairs in Israeli Military Intelligence, noted, in connection with another report, that "Hamas is an organization of numbers and accuracy." This data may be revised in the future, following investigations by other organizations, but the initial information is sufficient to indicate the basic picture of the situation, from which we can draw practical conclusions. From an international comparative perspective, too, this is a high figure, considering that in new wars fought during the 20th century (after WWII and up until the 1990s), about half of those killed were civilians – and this includes wars in which the most important component was ground combat, not relatively precise strikes from the air. In light of such a high proportion of noncombatants among those killed in Swords of Iron, we may suspect that the principle of discrimination was not upheld or perhaps that the principle of proportionality was subject to a highly flexible interpretation. Thus, rather than this being a case of "collateral damage," it was the reverse: Because most of those harmed are civilians, what was produced is "collateral benefit," in the form of a low number of Gazan combatants killed. https://archive.is/lyMUH
Worst of our century? Partly correct, there are UN refugee agencies and acruslly a few others in Gaza but in large the proper agencies are not allowed in at the moment and might not be allowed for a very very long time. That is unfortunate indeed. Finally you said something truthful. Please see a list of some of the worst genocides of our century linked below. Work on your bias and lies, it will help prevent further wars. May we all live in ✌️ https://www.britannica.com/list/8-deadliest-wars-of-the-21st-century
Imagine using Britannica as a source. Don't accuse people of lying who clearly have studied it, whereas you've just googled something. For your education, and all of which debunk all of your talking points: [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-death-toll.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-death-toll.html) >More women and children have been reported killed in Gaza in less than two months than the roughly 7,700 civilians documented as killed by U.S. forces and their international allies in the entire first year of the invasion of Iraq in 2003, according to estimates from Iraq Body Count, an independent British research group. And the number of women and children reported killed in Gaza since the Israeli campaign began last month has already started to approach the roughly 12,400 civilians documented to have been killed by the United States and its allies in Afghanistan during nearly 20 years of war, according to Neta C. Crawford, a University of Oxford professor who is co-director of Brown University’s Costs of War Project. These comparisons are based on the thousands of deaths directly attributed to U.S. coalition forces over decades in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. Far more people — hundreds of thousands in total — are estimated to have been killed in these conflicts by other groups, including the Syrian government and its allies, local militias, the Islamic State and the Iraqi security forces. But while the overall death tolls in those wars were larger, the number of people killed in Gaza “in a very short period of time is higher than in other conflicts,” said Professor Crawford, who has extensively researched modern wars. > >More children have been killed in Gaza since the Israeli assault began than in the world’s major conflict zones combined — across two dozen countries — during all of last year, even with the war in Ukraine, according to U.N. tallies of verified child deaths in armed conflict. > >The scale of Palestinian civilian deaths in such a short period of time appears to be the highest such civilian casualty rate in the 21st century,” said Michael Lynk, who served as the U.N. special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories from 2016 to 2022. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/israel-war-destruction-gaza-record-pace/) >Furthermore, in the past, various international bodies commented favorably on the Hamas ministry's level of accuracy, and even Dr. Michael Milshtein, formerly the head of the department of Palestinian affairs in Israeli Military Intelligence, noted, in connection with another report, that "Hamas is an organization of numbers and accuracy." This data may be revised in the future, following investigations by other organizations, but the initial information is sufficient to indicate the basic picture of the situation, from which we can draw practical conclusions. > > > >From an international comparative perspective, too, this is a high figure, considering that in new wars fought during the 20th century (after WWII and up until the 1990s), about half of those killed were civilians – and this includes wars in which the most important component was ground combat, not relatively precise strikes from the air. In light of such a high proportion of noncombatants among those killed in Swords of Iron, we may suspect that the principle of discrimination was not upheld or perhaps that the principle of proportionality was subject to a highly flexible interpretation. Thus, rather than this being a case of "collateral damage," it was the reverse: Because most of those harmed are civilians, what was produced is "collateral benefit," in the form of a low number of Gazan combatants killed. > >[https://archive.is/lyMUH](https://archive.is/lyMUH)
[I mean even the IDF believes the numbers are generally accurate](https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3w4w7/israeli-intelligence-health-ministry-death-toll)
Super accurate artillery except when they demolish a university, then it’s a whoopsie
Some, certainly not most.
It is Iranian provided weapons. Not patch jobs from scraps they find.
The irony is Israel is using more expensive J dams to have more precise bombings instead of blasting indiscriminately with artillery shells like Russian did during the initial invasion of Ukraine.
This is a lie. Various sources that you can easily look up tell us that HALF of the bombs Israel dropped so far were unguided “dummy” bombs. US confirmed it. They would know… they sold them to Israel. https://www.stripes.com/theaters/middle_east/2023-12-14/israel-dumb-bombs-strikes-gaza-12363263.html https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/us-intel-indicates-half-of-all-weapons-dropped-by-israel-on-gaza-are-dumb-bombs-report/3082836#
Do you understand dummy bombs are also dropped with precision? Anyone who brings up this "dummy" bomb as a gotcha is just ignorant. You could spend two seconds on google to learn that.
Ah yes, a precise 2000lb bomb....
Right? It’s like saying a 2000lb VBIED is a precision weapon. It’s detached from reality.
Literally such a dumb take. Weapons come from Iran and Qatari financing. Zionist hating scumlords
“Qatari financing” huh I wonder what monsters delivered Qatari money straight to Hamas? Oh wait we know exactly who! Zionists did! So that makes it weapons (directly and indirectly) and finance delivered by yours truly. Thank you for the friendly reminder that Zionists support terrorism as a means to conquer more land! https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12?amp
No matter what you say you’re still a Nazi scum lord. Go to gaza my buddy go to the West Bank buddy talk your shit
Why do I need to tell them what they already know? “Nazi scum lord”… considering Zionists openly support throwing Palestinians out by force, call them subhuman, and kill them by the thousands… we both know Zionists and their shills are a better comparison for nazis than I’ll ever be. Thanks for a decent term to compare them to! Your shill response isn’t even bright enough to retort anything I said because you know those are simple facts. Thats why you resort to name calling. Have a nice day being miserable on the internet! I’ve said all I need to and you won’t exactly give me anything intellectual to respond to.
Brainwashed man big time sad for you and the irrational section of the world. Hamas got you good. Real good. Honestly gotta give them round of applause for this PR shit since October. Hell of a job
Check this bot account out. Made on 11/8 last year...How much the Zionists paying you to shill for them?
"Military grade explosives" What else would they be using in a warzone? The time for molotovs is long past in this conflict
The only reason they have them is because they're collecting and repurposing the unexploded Israeli munitions.
I guess they were expecting homemade ones only
So...maybe don't keep fighting and resolve this? Is this article trying to generate sympathy after the world watched them blast someone holding a child's hand?
there was a literal ceasefire where they were trying to resolve this before the Oct. 7th attacks, dumbass
A “ceasefire” where the IDF was still abusing Palestinian civilians for funsies.
what does that have to do with the actions of Hamas if they don’t represent the Palestinians?
Ceasefire never happened when Bibi was applauding settler terrorism in the West Bank.
You’re talking to Hamas right? Because that makes more sense.
IDF kills thousands of women and children, not an ounce of sympathy. A grown ass man tries to kill a bunch of women and children and gets hurt, suddenly Israel is all tears.
Did HAMAS and the Palestinians have sympathy on Oct 7th when Jewish girls were getting their genitalia blown off?
It's really creepy how obsessed you guys are with rape. I'd bet everything that you're nowhere to be found when it comes to supporting rape victims in your entourage.
What?? You’re the ones who deny that Jewish women were raped and killed on a mass scaled on Oct 7th In Abu Kabir, I examined incinerated remnants of teeth and bones; charred remains of children; and physical cadavers of victims. I read CT scans of children and adults bound together and burned alive. I viewed images of a decapitated young girl, her child skull tethered to her trunk by only a sliver of decaying skin. Her facial expression, surrounding milk teeth, haunts me still. Across the boundaries of death, her Edward Munch-like scream still echoes. Sergeant Major Natah Katz from the IDF Rabbinical Unit at the Shura base near Ramle described to me cadavers he received with breasts and genitals hacked off, one with a knife impaled directly into the vagina. The mutilation of sexual organs and breasts, "seemed to be an obsession," he recalled. Dr. Chen Kugel, head of Israel's National Forensic Center has confirmed to me the same. Indeed, Hamas arrived with orders to mass rape: Phrasebooks belonging to Hamas found in the Re'im area listed phonetic Hebrew commands in Arabic "Take your clothes off!"; " Spread your legs!'; "Get down!" Terabytes of their own video data confirm Hamas raped, amputated breasts, mutilated women's genitals, and committed systematic sexual crimes on both the living and the dead. Necrophilia has been explicitly reported. https://www.newsweek.com/i-saw-children-hamas-beheaded-my-own-eyes-shame-queen-rania-opinion-1855472
Do you condemn the rape of this small Palestinian boy by the IDF who had imprisoned him ? [source](https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=OSYkdEcxdn3tQpFw&v=Zrb_cb6-rHI&feature=youtu.be)
Whataboutism
Why are you still trying to use propaganda that has been disproven?
None of this has been disproven This was all shown to members of congress and parliament and the UN If you actually weren’t biased you would know this
I think this says much more about the zionist propagandists than hamas ya perverts.
Okay... So you don't think the IDF should be better than Hamas? Seems like you're only against the killing of Israeli civilians as opposed to the murder of civilians in general?
You’re mad that they didn’t have sympathy for imaginary victims?
Why are you people so allergic to Israelis getting sympathy?
Probably the indiscriminate mass murdering of children doesn't help.
You are lying. You are just allergic to Jews getting sympathy because you hate Jews. You know full well israel is not mass murdering children.
Anyone who has been paying attention knows full well that Israel is mass murdering Palestinian children. Or maybe you don’t see Palestinian children as children? Or as people?
💊💊💊
Because they have proven themselves to be undeserving of sympathy. I’ve seen so many disgusting comments from Israelis about how Palestinian civilians aren’t suffering enough and how they should all be done away with. I don’t care what happens to people like that.
If Israel would just release the hostages then this could all be over of course
Good, hope all these assholes have crippling PTSD and have to wear diapers for the rest of their days.
How do you expect them to fight like men against other *armed* men when they have been oppressing unarmed innocent palestinian civilians for the past decades?
They get so scared when they find resistance that they need diapers.
Yep, they're just so used to fighting women and children that they weren't prepared for actual combat. Gonna be a lot of crippled, disfigured IDF rolling around after this is over.
They didn't expect any resistance so they just left weapons out to be stolen. Russian levels of incompetence and they're paying for it in limbs.
Any IDF thinking they are being heroic by fighting for good are in for a rude awakening. There will likely be very strong anti-israeli-veteran sentiment after this similar to post Vietnam war in the US. Go kill an organization that was created and propped up by your government, get PTSD, lose some limbs, go back and get hate for being the most cruel and incompetent army in the world. Why would anyone want to be IDF?
They don't think they are fighting for good. they are sadistic blood thirsty murderers who have been pining for the chance to kill some women and children.
Nah Israeli society is sick, they are 99% behind the genocide
[There's definitely some dissent.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/1aeym34/israel_police_beating_up_antizionist_jews/) The ruling party is 110% behind it but it's certainly conceivable that a later wave in politics will look back at this as the war crime fiesta that it is.
I think that's an overestimation
Unfortunately not, a large percentage believe the assault is not destructive enough. Decent people leave Israel
Hopefully this will further backfire on Israel, as the people will expect to be compensated/taken care of by the state. Either this burns a hole in the budget of Israel, and the people get fed up with increased military spending and benefits, or the vets get neglected and fester resentment towards the government. Either way, this will definitely foster instability in the coming years.
Couldn't have happened to a nicer apartheid settler colonial state backed by the West.
Remind me when Sami Handi slyly crapped all over the IDf beating up women and children , the sky news presented had to do a little clarification
What a bunch of weak bitches. Oh no, you have to face actual military and not just 10 year olds armed with stones. Pathetic, weak weasels.
Not even an actual military. Irregulars with mostly salvaged and stolen gear, no armor, no air support. If the modern IDF ever faced an actual army they'd get slaughtered
Everytime they do face troops on the ground, they get rekt. Then they bomb civilians from the air in retaliation to make themselves feel better. They have a military doctrine called the Dahiya doctrine, named after an area in Beirut that they bombed in 2006 after losing like little pussies on the ground fighting against Hezbollah. The idea is to kill civilians, terrorise them, bomb their infrastructure. The theory is that the civilians will then put pressure on armed groups/their government to stop military action to prevent more Israeli air force bombings of civilians.
Ah in the 90s, we called that "humanitarian bombing"
I saw a video where they were recording with the rear back up camera off a car. Were using it in waiting for the idf to enter the kill zone
Asymmetrical warfare in the 21st century is pretty interesting
That's why the IDF has handily defeated every army it ever faced, right?
When have the current enlisted personnel of the IDF faced an army? This isn't 1967.
You…you realize that they are actively engaged in combat at the border regions of both Lebanon and Syria with national armed forces, right? Like, if you don’t know that, that’s fine, but just keep your ignorance to yourself rather than opening your mouth and making us all dumber.
Hezbollah isnt the national armed forces of Lebanon, and fighting between Israel and the armed forces of Syria had involved a couple hundred soldiers at most. The enlisted IDF personnel operating in Gaza does not have combat experience, the vast majority of those troops are seeing combat for the first time.
You are correct that Hezbollah is not *technically* a part of the Syrian armed forces. Hezbollah is also considered to be on of the most — if not the most — powerful non-state actors in the world, with approximately 50 thousand fighters. It’s military has a +$700 million budget, and it has fought alongside Lebanon’s armed forces. According to the NYT, it is stronger than the Lebanese army (https://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/world/middleeast/syria-developments.html). It also has guided missiles, rockets, and drones it’s arsenal, in addition to tanks and other armored vehicles. I was wrong to specifically state that Israel is engaged in broad fighting with national militaries, but Israel is certainly engaged in fighting with one of the world’s most organized, strongest, non-state militant group that dwarfs the strength of Lebanon’s own army.
That's fair enough, but Lebanon is essentially a failed state so it doesn't take much to be stronger than its official armed forces. At 50k militants and 700m, that's indeed pretty big for a paramilitary group, but it would be considered pathetically small as an army. For comparison, that's a third the size and less than a fifth the budget of the military of the Philippines, which, while populous, is dirt poor and not often involved in conflicts, and most certainly not considered by anyone to be a militarily powerful - or even present - nation.
Yeah maybe the non Lebanese calling Lebanon a failed state can be considered as being a bit insensitive.
I'm sure it can, but you'd be delusional to think the situation in Lebanon is working or sustainable.
Yeah I remember when the IDF handily got their arse handed to them by Hezbollah in 2006
An army of children. IDF is real tough when it comes to breaking children's arms and dropping bombs on them.
These people are delusional hey
Well, maybe their grandparents did
Insane cope. There have been under 300 IDF fatalies so far with over 9.000 Hamas dead and roughly 50% of Hamas unable to fight due to being either too wounded, arrested or dead. The numbers for the IDF are significantly better than even the most optimistic estimates before the war started. And this is with Israel using like 1/3 of their military in an extremely restrained way. You are very delusional and just have no idea what you are talking about
That's pretty rich as a comment under this particular article lmao. No one's saying hamas is winning the conflict, it's pretty obvious they're not. But the current idf's unprofessional behavior and lack of training shows, these are the worst losses they've had in a generation.
Hamas to Israel killed right now is like 33:1, I don't know how that shows lack of training or skill
Amazing what you can do to an enemy without anti aircraft capability. The biggest single cause of fatalities was idf soldiers leaving a load of explosives guarded by a single tank, which was set off by militants. https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-deadliest-incident-of-gaza-combat-21-soldiers-killed-as-buildings-collapse-in-blast/ A significant portion of hamas small arms weapons comes from insufficiently guarded idf supply dumps/bases. https://www.timesofisrael.com/much-of-hamas-explosives-comes-from-idf-fire-that-failed-to-detonate-report/ 17% of idf casualties are friendly fire. https://www.npr.org/2024/01/26/1226977365/israel-idf-gaza-middle-east-deaths https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-hamas-war-friendly-fire-incidents-gaza-soldiers-killed-rcna135089 These are indicators of poor training, lack of experience, or the assumption that your enemy will not attack you. And that's without considering how many people have been killed surrendering,including Israeli hostages.
I mean, you are just blatantly ignorant and misinformed on how combat works. Israel is fighting terrorists in a dense urban environment, who hide behind civilians in tunnels and yet, compared to the US Military in Operation Desert Storm, Israel has better friendly fire rates, better civilian casualty rates, and significantly better enemy to friendly death rates. So you are saying that the US military is poorly trained and lacking in experience?
Desert storm was 30 years ago. The ability to protect soldiers in combat has grown measurably since then. Soldiers in the 90s were certainly not trained, equipped, and supported nearly as well as they are today. By today's standards, the Americans who fought in the gulf war *were* poorly trained. So were those who fought in Vietnam. Worth noting that the total US casualties in desert storm was under 300, lower than the current casualties suffered by the idf
All the numbers in your comment added up to 420. Congrats! 30 + 90 + 300 = 420 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
Nice
Arab nations might beg to differ lol. But other countries are always welcome to try? That was hamas hope, post the October 7th attack. Didn't happen though.
When has the current IDF faced the army of an actual nation? Talking about the current boots on the ground, today's enlisted.
I guess I'm lost on your premise. Modern armies engaged in mosul ended up with what 5:1 ratio. That's the us, which can face a modern army. Meanwhile russia in ukraine is doing what, 10:1? With the acoutrements of modern artillery airpower... While israel is surgically going at 2:1 ratio for civilian to combatants. Given the past track record against foreign states with air forces, compared to modern wars, modern states with all forms of warfare, it seems to me like israel would do fine. Cause a good comparison to this conflict is the chechen wars, and israel is doing far far better both in terms of civilian casualties than the Russians, and their own wounded. Israel is up to 400 injured or killed, and has eliminated 10k militants with 20k civilian casualties. Compared to Russia in chechen losing 50k men, killing 250k civilians while also only killed around 10k chechen soldiers. Then compare that with how the modern state and us activities in the middle east it's pretty clear israel would do fine against a modern state. And don't forget they also engaged with Russian green men in Syria. Point is israel would do fine.
So never, thanks for playing. If israel invaded Russia, they would lose. Attempting to suggest otherwise is utterly unhinged.
You asked if they fought a modern army? Israel's wars have always and will always be defensive. It's really weird you think modern armies won't do well against israel when they have the same assets, and israel has more of them. Like... you do realize Russian army is 100k while Israel's at any given time is around 400k...? You're playing in wishful thinking israel could be defeated by any state right now other than the usa and China, and even they are really suspect given their last war was also against Vietnam... and they lost handedly.
I asked about today's enlisted. Israel invaded Lebanon in 2006 and was fought to a stalemate by goatherders with 40 year old weapons. Not exactly a defensive war. Neither is the current invasion in gaza. You're confusing retaliation with defense. The idf simply has no current experience against an actual uniformed army, and it shows. Leaving weapons for your opponent to capture and use against you is rookie shit.
Eh, if people are going to make the claim israel won't do well in modern war they're going to have to back it up. Israel, in each war, fought excellently to the metrics at the time. Given Israel's army has only grown and remained modernized, it's more on you guys to demonstrate Israel's incapability. Usa also ended up getting bogged down with insurgencies, not sure if that's relevant to if either power could engage with modern warfare. Which they can.
When your enemy's primary supply line is *stealing from your bases* and their munitions are *your own abandoned ordnance* you have a problem. When you lose 30 soldiers because they left explosives unguarded, your soldiers lack training. When you have a 17% friendly fire casualty rate, you aren't going to win against professionals. When your forces shoot hostages waving white flags, that's an indicator that they aren't accustomed to actual combat. All the proof is there for everyone to see.
Fake IDF account
Have you seen the casualties of the Lebanon war? Israels lost 121 soldiers ... Israel took out way more enemies and decemated their infrastructure and then there was a ceasefire. Israels goal wasn't to occupy all of Lebanon, they definitely came out on top there.
You should edit the Wikipedia article if you're so sure. I can't really believe this has to be said, but the number of casualties does not determine the outcome of a conflict. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War
>You're playing in wishful thinking israel could be defeated by any state right now other than the usa and China Bahahahaha
Funny how often other states made the same assumption and ended up humiliated.
Israel against the world: https://time.com/6559293/morning-consult-israel-global-opinion/ Dummies.
I can assure you, in any war with a genuinely capable military that didn't allow Israel to cling to America's balls like some US tax-dollar sucking lamprey, that you would find out extremely quickly just how wrong your propaganda addled brain is. > Israel could beat Russia Lol just lol
Israel’s coming into being started with offensive. But they don’t teach about the Nakba in Israel so you wouldn’t know. Fake IDF shill account. The world hates you for the Gaza genocide, catch up: https://time.com/6559293/morning-consult-israel-global-opinion/
He never suggested that so...
Great, so you admit that israel would lose to Russia. Thanks.
That was never anyone's point you muppet hahaha Are you having an argument with yourself playing both sides? Strange
All i said was that israel can't beat a modern army. You just said they couldn't beat Russia. A fine admission.
Dirty hasbara troll- look at his comment history, he posts hasbara lies for a living
Nonsense. They are highly prepared and armed, they had 20k plus full time soldiers and another 20k irregular.
Hamas isnt a military and is in no way as equipped or trained as a modern professional (read: not conscripted) military. They have no air support, no armor, very little artillery, no naval support, no ground-mounted (or even vehicle mounted) surface-to-air capability... They use some arms and munitions salvaged from unexploded enemy ordnance and looted from bases. That's not a hallmark of a functioning military.
They are objectively a military organisation. they are armed with Russian Kalashnikov's, Russian RPGs, Russian grenades...certainly not scavenged from israel, you're just making shit up and hoping nobody notices you don't know what you're talking about.
Take it up with the new york times https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-weapons-rockets.html Or the times of israel https://www.timesofisrael.com/much-of-hamas-explosives-comes-from-idf-fire-that-failed-to-detonate-report/ Objectively a military organization is fine. That doesn't make them a modern army. No planes and no tanks, no AA capability. You know, those things that are critical to modern warfare.
No it's not. It's a cheap stupid article trying to get us have some sympathy for IDF and less for the civilian they killed, despite them being so overwhelmingly superior to anything Hamas throws at them. The IDF has lost less than 200 people in order to kill 25000 people, and destroyed 50% of all the building in Gaza. But even that is not representative: you have to remember: this is a ground invasion in an urban environment, i.e. the worst case scenario, and still the IDF is basically levelling Gaza essentially unopposed.
I think its important to have empathy for both sides. Human suffering is human suffering. Both sides' leadership have made unconscionable decisions. Most of the soldiers and civilians who have found themselves on the front line did not make this decision or choose to be here.
So they shouldn't enlist in the IDF if they don't want to be there. They get a slap on the wrist and a few days in jail for not enlisting. But they chose the other option which includes killing children
Isn't there conscription in Israel [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription\_in\_Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Israel) I am assuming there are some harsh penalties for not going. "As of 2022, the minimum required length of military service is two years and eight months (with some roles requiring an additional four months of service) for all conscripted men, and two years (with some roles requiring an additional eight months of service) for conscripted Jewish women.\[1\] Once they have completed their mandatory term of service, all discharged citizens remain eligible to be called up for reserve duty until the age of 40. "
Well, you could just dodge service. All you gotta do is be the PMs son.
Netanyahu's son dodged service?
https://www.newsweek.com/benjamin-netanyahu-children-are-coming-under-fire-1838274 Lives in Miami and has avoided all active duty. Of course he still talks a ton about the war on the internet though. Here’s a quote from that article. U.K. newspaper The Times this week published a report detailing how some of the hundreds of Israelis living abroad who have flown home as reservists have accused Netanyahu's eldest son, Yair Netanyahu, of "abandoning" his country. At 32, Yair Netanyahu, who moved to Florida earlier this year, is eligible for reserve duty, as the cut-off age is 40. One reservist quoted in The Times article said Yair Netanyahu was "enjoying his life at Miami Beach while I'm on the front lines."
He didnt dodge service. he served when he was supposed to serve, and he didn't come back to israel after 7/10. which he was not required to do.
Just like the senior Hamas members who sit it out in Qatar Maybe we're not all so different after all
I think you’re a little confused. Nobody is saying Netanyahu himself should go and fight in Gaza. That would be the analogous situation. Similarly, nobody can enter Gaza to fight, really. There aren’t flights of reserve soldiers flying into Gaza to fight for Hamas. That would be the analogous situation to reserve soldiers from America coming to Israel.
Both sides got plenty of people that are full of shit. Yeah the differences aren’t always as stark as they appear.
he did not dodge service
Yet somehow they aren't the ones crying to the world for a ceasefire. Hmm.
I'm sure all those soldiers, as they're losing limbs, are being treated while being anaesthetised. Unlike all the Palestinian civilians who are having their limbs amputated without any anaesthetic whatsoever.
Israel is a paper Tiger. They want to look tough against the ragtag Palestinians, but would never face Iran, Turkey, Syria or even half of Yemen. They are bunch of wimps
Israel going easy to save civilians is Always interpreted as weakness by Israel's enemies. Always. Exhibit A, right here.
Starving and murdering children in an open air prison is going easy to save civilians? Please get your head checked
Random nonsense.
*monkey can't comprehend what is being said so it screeches*
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There are dozens of islands that have been used as prisons before.
Which document do you copy paste this from?
They withdrew from a landmass as big as Israel itself. If that's not weakness, I don't know what is. Normally countries never surrender territory gained, unless they are weak
You know that they won the war that gave them the Sinai in the first place right? They’re so weak they clobbered both Syria and Egypt at the same time and managed to take territory from both? lol. That’s some pretty heavy cope. I’m guessing you’re from Egypt and that’s how they try to spin such a devastating defeat as a win. lol.
So why is Sinai Egyptian now and not Israeli? Winners never surrender land, only losers and weaklings do. Where is you Sinai now? Gone
Israel gave up the Sinai as part of a peace deal to normalize relations with Egypt. Which it did. Egypt has not fought them for over 40 years and while they are not allies they at least have a productive relationship. All they had to do was give up a worthless strip of desert that wasn’t even theirs to begin with. They took out their largest regional rival and all they had to give up was desert. Seems like a win to me unless you’re so stupid you think the only winner is the one that has the most dirt at the end. If you’re a Neanderthal who only thinks in terms of violence and conflict then I guess it could be hard to see how Israel is in a much stronger position now than it was then. You’ve already made it clear you’re on the losing side of history though, we already know you’re not smart enough to see anything except through the lens of violence.
If I ever needed proof that Israel's enemies do not understand concepts of compromise and coexistance... Here it is!
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Thanks for mask off. Bye
Didn’t like 5 Arab nations attack them at once and they all lost?
That happened ages ago. Egypt was using camels because they didn't have tanks. Egypt was a British colony for most of 20th century and late 19th. The British occupied military Egypt, preventin the creation of an effective army. Only Jordan, had a trained, professional fighting force. Lebanon was also recently a French colony. With no strength. What about now? We don't see Israel facing Iran or the Houthis
Egypt never used camels. They had plenty of tanks and modern aircraft. What a moronic, ahistorical lie.
Yes they did use camels. The most famous Egyptian movie "the land" shows how their "police/army" was equipped in the 1930s. Yes, camels. And no, they didn't have the Messerschmitt German planes like Israel did. The Jewish equipment was way better quality and more modern than any Arab
For someone with “historian” in their name you don’t know shit about history. The last war between the Arabs and Israel was in 1973, not the 30’s. Both sides were using jets, not Messerschmitts. Moron.
I was talking about 1948. And by the way, the jews ended up losing the Sinai forever because they were not brave enough to fight for it. So that's the jewish doctrine. Fight the Palestinians because they are weak, but don't fight against regular armies.like Iran, Syria because of their fear of losing. Bunch of wimps
The Israelis have beat the shit out of the Egyptians and Syrians every time they fought. So far they’re 3-0. They have yet to lose a war. Egypt hasn’t won a war since Ptolemy. Lol
The got the Sinai back. Because the jews were too scared to keep it. And so far, the Assad regime is still in power in Syria, so that proves Israel is a failure in keeping the Middle East under their control
Israel isn’t responsible for Syria, just the part they control…Golan. lol.
“the jews were to scared to keep it” Look who said the quiet part out loud
Hey don't disrupt the narrative. Israel is always the bad guy according to this sub. They have no right to defend themselves when they are attacked and it would be better if Israel just laid down and was destroyed and all 10 million Israeli citizens were murdered. That's what worldevents and it's mods believe. This subreddit promots jihadists propaganda and dreams of Israel's destruction.
Nazis crying about casualties. We care
Love that for them.
"That's War." I have no fuks to give for any Israeli at this point.
Good, stand closer
🎻
IOF is imposing worse than this on literal children so I can't find much sympathy within myself for Israeli soldiers finally getting a taste of their own medicine
Not enough though.
Lol
Ha ha
Boo-hoo
Damn dude it’s almost like they should stop occupying Palestine.
I’d go back to Poland if that happened to me.
Why would a population that is majority mizrahi Jew go to Poland?
Aren’t a number of these IOF thugs getting hit by their own rounds in friendly fire?
Aw poor babies.
It’s so funny to me how obsessed this sub is with one conflict, ignoring Myanmar, China, Sudan, DRC… it’s baffling!
Nobody wants their hard earned tax dollars funding a genocide.
Exactly why pulling funding from UNRWA is critical.
Accusing a UN refugee agency of conducting a genocide. This is how unhinged and removed from reality these people are.
Remind us again how the west is directly supporting those genocides, clown? Aside the one in Congo Basin, the West Supports IsNotReal and IsNotReal supports that genocide so you win that one.
What does the West have anything to do with innocent people? Are innocent people only innocent if the conflict involved western civilizations?
You’re saying the people in the west aren’t innocent.
Aren’t innocent in what?
You just said it.
Someone in this sub called it the deadliest war in the 21st century. It's not even the deadliest conflict of the past couple years. Like LMAO, there was a period in Ukraine where more people were dying each week than total dead in this conflict. And then there was the second Congo War, that one happened 20 years ago, that killed over 5 million.
Pretty sure the civilian ukraine death tolll after 2 years is slightly less than the gaza toll after 4 months
The death toll in Mariupol is 20,000 alone. Russia doesn't allow the UN into occupied territory so there in no way of knowing exactly how many are dead. And that's only if you count civilians, all of Ukraine's soldiers are about as innocent as the average Gazan and they have been killed in their tens of thousands. Remember it wasn't thr AFU that started the war by invading Russia and murdering civilians for the hell of it, and it wasn't Ukrainian civilians cheering in the streets at massacred Russian civilians.
They don't care about the Muslims in the Sudan or the Uyghurs in China either.
I'll give you three guesses why lol
First guess, IsNotReal has been found by the highest court in the world to be plausibly carrying out a genocide in Gaza.
Actually, ICJ found that Israel is not committing genocide, or they'd have ordered a ceasefire. Like they did against Russia.
Never forget "Palestinians" raped children on Oct 7th