Alternative Sources:
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/1/31/israels-war-on-gaza-live-severe-hunger-in-gaza-as-aid-trucks-surrounded](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/1/31/israels-war-on-gaza-live-severe-hunger-in-gaza-as-aid-trucks-surrounded)
[https://www.palestinechronicle.com/handcuffed-and-executed-30-bodies-found-in-northern-gaza-school-video/](https://www.palestinechronicle.com/handcuffed-and-executed-30-bodies-found-in-northern-gaza-school-video/)
[https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240131-30-palestinians-held-by-israel-found-dead-handcuffed-inside-gaza-school-ngo/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240131-30-palestinians-held-by-israel-found-dead-handcuffed-inside-gaza-school-ngo/)
Probably cause they're all unreliable sources. I believe it happened, but why not post a somewhat neutral source? Al Jazeera eg has shown they have a clear agenda when they broadcast the evidence of PIJ misfired rockets, only to take it down and blame it on IDF.
You don't think it's a bit sus that no neutral or semi neutral sources reported on it and no photo evidence was shared? With the source of the information being Hamas themselves? Which is interesting considering Palestinian militants have no issue with point blank execution of *civilians * by the hundreds and even raping them, while there's no evidence of IDF doing any such thing systematically?
Calling people trolls for questioning the sources is just you being a troll, clearly you have no interest in discussing the topic or sharing evidence
I have no issue with the language on their main channel. They have an English channel too, andI'dexpect a Qatari channel to be in Arabic. It's their blatant RT style lying and propaganda I object to. And yes, there definitely are Western channels and news media I feel the same way about. The West is far from propaganda free.
It's like when I called Houthis barbarians and someone accused me of thinking that because they're dark skinned. It's cause of their terrorising of civilians in Yemen (yes, I feel the same about the US military when they drone strike weddings in Yemen)
But yes, some level of bias exists in all media, I can live with that
That's so very true and is sadly a problem affecting most media where I'm from. You have to look through all sorta sources to not miss important news and even bureaus do it sometimes. I absolutely hate that
I mean do you think any of those sources are remotely objective? I'm also confused why you think engaging with the veracity of the claim is a bad thing.
Edit: Doubled checked and what do you know all three had articles condemning Israel for the al-Ahli hospital strike. Of course we know how that one turned out. Maybe hold out for a site that has a bit higher standards of evidence.
And with regard to al-Ahli -- here's a source that breaks down all the available evidence in incredibly thorough detail. I don't agree with Seth Abramson on all his conclusions - but the guy is meticulous with his approach.
https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/from-start-to-finish-major-media
Forensic Architecture did a [preliminary breakdown](https://x.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414) alongside Al-Haq and earshot.ngo that completely debunked israel's claimed video evidence.
Did you seriously just reference an X post by some random account called Forensic Architecture as evidence with zero provided evidence other than a statement on that platform?
Odd, there should be a [continuation of the thread](https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422512350216329) below that initial tweet. Here is the [doppler analysis](https://twitter.com/earshot_ngo/status/1715381907230232929) from earshot, and their analysis of the alleged [conversation audio](https://twitter.com/earshot_ngo/status/1715383614232494424) released by israeli military. Twitter seems to be having issues today.
Forensic Architecture is a multidisciplinary and international research collective based out of [Goldsmiths University of London](https://www.gold.ac.uk/news/10-years-of-forensic-architecture/). It was founded by British-Israeli architect Eyal Weizman, Professor of Spatial and Visual Cultures, Fellow of the British Academy, and Member of the Order of the British Empire. FA is part of the International Criminal Court's Technology Advisory Board, as well.
In their investigations they work alongside international NGOs and nonprofits for legal, humanitarian, and human rights; independent field experts; community and grassroots organizations; academic and cultural institutions; and major international media. Here is their [GitHub repository](https://github.com/forensic-architecture).
The agency has received [international recognition](https://forensic-architecture.org/about/recognition) for their investigations, which have been presented in parliamentary inquiries, international courtrooms, United Nations assemblies, [peoples tribunals](https://theintercept.com/2017/10/18/germany-neo-nazi-murder-trial-forensic-architecture/), museum and gallery exhibitions, and [so on](https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2018/feb/25/forensic-architects-eyal-weizman). They have a permanent collection in the Victoria and Albert Museum.
Here is information [on their funding](https://forensic-architecture.org/about/funding/). You can sort their cases by location, methodology, and category. On each investigation they clearly state: who commissioned it, where it was presented, the location in question, and what methodology was used. Their investigations present detailed and transparent analysis, which often [challenges official testimonies](https://garage.vice.com/en_us/article/8xdkvp/forensic-architecture-and-fake-news)
Forensic Architecture's [investigation](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/digital-violence-how-the-nso-group-enables-state-terror) into surveillance of journalists and activists was instrumental in exposing NSO's [Pegasus spyware](https://hyperallergic.com/652554/forensic-architecture-tracks-activist-journalist-surveillance/). Their findings on [israel's use of white phosphorus](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/white-phosphorus-in-urban-environments), presented to the UN, led to the israeli military declaration that [they would stop use of the munitions](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22310544).
UN Special Rapporteur commissions:
• [Knock on the Roof: Drone Strike in Beit Lahiya](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/knock-on-the-roof-drone-strike-in-beit-lahiya)
• [Drone Strike in Miranshah](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/drone-strike-in-miranshah)
• [Drone Strike in Mir Ali](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/drone-strike-in-mir-ali)
• [Drone Strikes on a Jirga in Detta Khel](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/drone-strikes-on-a-jirga-in-datta-khel)
Only the most dense people would think the Al Ahli bombing was IDF when many sources of video footage showed clearly it came from within Gaza and very close to the hospital (they shot from behind the hospital, thereby endangering civilians and showing they've no respect for life, including palestinians) and interestingly AJ livestreamed the evidence, but then took it down because it didn't support their agenda.
Al Jazeera is just a propaganda channel with no journalistic integrity. The fact that no reliable source reported on this incident and no proof could be produced makes it fair to be skeptical
This is consistent with the broader scope Israel's genocidal policies—demolishing graveyards and destroying close to 70% of structures, telling people to go to a safe zone then bombing it (and oh boy I could add A LOT more). I'm well aware of the 'objective' sources you endorse. Which is exactly the reason why I can’t take any of you people seriously anymore.
Ps these are reliable sources that post other sources and videos. that is a concrete fact.
If these articles turn out to be true and confirmed then be as angry as you want but your alarm bells should be ringing here no matter your opinion is on what's going on.
OP's post reads like a viral Facebook gif that got picked up by media as rage bait and of the others, one is a direct copypaste word for word and one is claiming that israel is using exhumed decomposing bodies for organ transplants....you can't use rotting organs for transplants so clearly made up and they decided to print it anyway. Incredibly suspect sources and journalism.
You mean the graveyard with Hamas tunnels below? I fully agree that it's absolutely deplorable that Hamas keeps using hospitals and holy sites as protection.
You mean the cemetery that was destroyed and the Israeli drone footage proved that it wasn't actually on top of the tunnel? And then they refused entry for CNN to investigate by going back in, even if they didn't take cameras?
When CNN (which only shows footage approved by the army) is skeptical....
They have been loyal propagandists, all along.. Yet , this was decent journalism
Yea I'm not Jewish I don't give a shit what their book says. Only reason I think Israel should exist is because it currently exist and has for a while now. If it was 100+ years ago I might be inclined to agree with you, but that ship has long sailed.
Are all Israelis vile assholes? Or is it only the fake accounts on Reddit? You really are doing a good job of getting your country to be the most hated on the planet. Well done, great Hasbara!
What do you believe is an objective source? Perhaps we can all agree that any state funded media source, or a source originating from a certain country can certainly have biases. But to think that Arab sources are to be disregarded because they are SOOOO BIASED while ignoring the bias of sources from other news organizations like Fox, BBC, MSNBC, Haaretz, and others is frankly racist. It's because it's "Arab" that you disregard it - CLEARLY it's corrupt right just like corrupt Arab countries, right? Ignore the fact that the European / Western nations are the root cause of 90% of the worlds geopolitical problems -- but everyone else are terrorists right? How many non-western countries have the funds and means to fund coups, install puppet dictators, funds the Jakarta method?
At some point, westerners need to come to terms that our privileged lives have been established on the back of human atrocity, racial prejudice and human suffering -- EVEN TO THIS DAY.
Long story short - it's wiser to acknowledge a bias, review the information and draw a conclusion. It's less wise to completely disregard information because you don't like the messenger.
Gonna have to disagree that considering bias makes me racist. One of them is legit state media from a backer of hamas. That goes a bit beyond simple bias and when they've already shown they're willing to jump the gun and make broad claims based on spotty evidence they sort orf lose the benefit of the doubt. I mean have any of these provided retractions on the Al-Ahli hospital story?
I think the mountain of lies that have come from Israeli IDF and government representatives would be a greater point of hesitation to be honest. They have had a history of projection and blatantly deceitful claims.
With regard to Al-Ahli, check out this detailed article from Seth Abramson. I linked him before, and he will say things I don’t always like / agree with, but I cannot say he doesn’t do his homework and seems to have an obsession with pursuing integrity (even given his bias).
https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/from-start-to-finish-major-media
What is there to retract? It's still unconfirmed what actually happened. People now are generally concluding it was most likely a PIJ misfire, but again it hasn't been actually investigated and confirmed yet.
I'm curious, do you apply the same level of criticism/skepticism to Israeli media outlets? Times of Israel, Jpost, ynet, etc.
It didn't stop them from making incredibly strong accusations of Israel before they had a lick of evidence. Now, I don't really agree that the results are as questionable as you're implying, but do they have any sort of retraction softening their accusations?
>I'm curious, do you apply the same level of criticism/skepticism to Israeli media outlets? Times of Israel, Jpost, ynet, etc.
Yes, I never use them as a source when talking to people who support the Palestinian side nor do I personally read or take what I've seen from them at face value. Generally I try to source things like Reuters or AP since they generally feel a bit more unbiased or I use towards further left sites that that tend to have more sympathy for the Palestinian cause.
It is wise to acknowledge bias but given that Israel accuses so many well respected humanitarian organisations of bias towards them I’m expecting if this is revealed to be genuine and is reported there will be accusations of bias to anyone covering it. That’s a prediction of how this will play out. If one of your trusted sources concurs it happened do you think you’ll believe it? I’m really curious not being a dick.
>It didn't stop them from making incredibly strong accusations of Israel before they had a lick of evidence
Well, let's think about this critically for a second.
So the rocket is generally thought to be most likely a PIJ misfire.
If that is true, Hamas knows it wasn't them and Israel knows it wasn't them either.
So doesn't it make sense that they would blame each other?
And this isn't even factoring in the point that Israel, for some weird reason, decided to fabricate evidence implicating the other side: [https://today.lorientlejour.com/article/1353910/al-ahli-hospital-attack-flaws-in-the-israeli-version-of-events.html](https://today.lorientlejour.com/article/1353910/al-ahli-hospital-attack-flaws-in-the-israeli-version-of-events.html)
If Israel really didn't do it, why did they feel the need to fabricate evidence demonstrating the "other side did it to themselves"?
>Now, I don't really agree that the results are as questionable as you're implying
My stance is the same as most analysts' stance, that it most likely was a PIJ misfire. That doesn't mean it's confirmed though, there is still some dispute I'm just referring to the general consensus.
>but do they have any sort of retraction softening their accusations?
But again, why would they if it's still unconfirmed? If Israel actually let independent investigators in, which they aren't, we would have likely had the answer ages ago.
And not to deflect, but it's not like Israel is handing out retractions for the multitude of lies they've spread. I'm happy to provide examples here.
>Yes, I never use them as a source when talking to people who support the Palestinian side nor do I personally read or take what I've seen from them at face value. Generally I try to source things like Reuters or AP since they generally feel a bit more unbiased or I use towards further left sites that that tend to have more sympathy for the Palestinian cause.
Fair enough, good for you.
>If that is true, Hamas knows it wasn't them and Israel knows it wasn't them either. So doesn't it make sense that they would blame each other
We're not talking about hamas though. We're talking about these news sites. The idea that they would just uncritically accept and push the words of hamas is not a point in your favor.
Also not convinced hamas and PIJ don't communicate. There might be some initial confusion, but I'd assume they found out sooner rather than later.
>And this isn't even factoring in the point that Israel, for some weird reason, decided to fabricate evidence implicating the other side:
Is this what you're referring to?
>According to two independent Arab journalists, who spoke to UK’s Channel 4 News the recording was a fabrication because of “the language, accent, dialect, syntax and tone, none of which is credible.”
Honestly, having two unnamed journalist say the language sounds off is not that convincing. Its pretty subjective for one and doesn't make sense that Israel would be struggle here since it has plenty of native Arab speakers. Beside they are an Iranian proxy so I don't know if it's impossible for them to have foreign people fighting alongside hamas.
To be honest, there are some pretty weak defenses put forth in that article. For instance:
>“Islamic Jihad and Hamas have demonstrated high-level military skills since the beginning of the fighting,” Hamade said. “It is not very likely that they could make such a mistake, especially in Gaza, which is a flat land.”...
>While Hamas and Islamic Jihad missiles have previously landed inside the Gaza Strip, there is no evidence of them hitting densely populated areas in the city center or causing significant damage. It may, therefore, raise questions as to why this time a missile struck a hospital in the heart of Gaza.
This little bit "logic" is interesting to say the least. It sounds like they're trying very hard to push something
>That doesn't mean it's confirmed though, there is still some dispute I'm just referring to the general consensus.
Do you really think they would admit it if it was true? It's a propaganda game, they aren't going to ever admit fault.
>But again, why would they if it's still unconfirmed? If Israel actually let independent investigators in, which they aren't, we would have likely had the answer ages ago.
Except it was hamas in control of the area when it happened and they are the ones who collected all the shrapnel from the blast. They are the ones who didn't release it so this doesn't support your point at all.
>And not to deflect, but it's not like Israel is handing out retractions for the multitude of lies they've spread. I'm happy to provide examples here.
The whole point is not to trust super biased sources so I don't see how this helps your position.
If it wasn't fabricated, why would Israel retract this "evidence"? Because that certainly happened, btw, and there was no explanation for why they would delete/retract these bits of "evidence".
Yes, your point is about not trusting biased sources, but you're insisting on a retraction for Al Ahli, something unconfirmed, but not for any of the multitude of lies Israel has told. Any idea as to why?
Also, you didn't really put forth a compelling argument to dispel the sources the person you responded to gave. Are you just discrediting them because they are Arab/Muslim sources?
Lots of nerve criticizing ops sourcing in a time where either Israeli propaganda or these sources are some the only options for information for people not on the ground. What do you recommend? The Times of Israel?
Becuase they provide better evidence. Independent corroboration, video footage, and minimal outlandish claims. The opposite could be said for Israel and its genocidal ulterior motives
Hold on now, in the linked article its the "Palestinian Prisoners Society." The "Palestinian Prisoners Club" was referenced yesterday in the story about 30 dead people who were buried with blindfolds and bags on their heads. Story posted byt he same people, in the same format, too.
I'm beginning to think some generative AI is running to produce false stories, and god forbid anyone try to verify this stuff in this sub.
People should probably cool their hate jets on this one as these are some of the most poorly written unconfirmed articles I've ever read in my life. One is a straight up copy paste and another is saying that Israel is stealing organs from exhumed decomposing bodies for transplants....I hope those Jews enjoy their new decomposing dead liver.
This part is particularly telling as it's using a pretty nasty real historical event to purposely drum up rage, the issues is whoever wrote it didn't think it though as nobody is using rotting buried bodies for organ transplants. clearly a nonsensical lie and an untrustworthy source.
There's an information war on both sides and this one stinks.
When will you get it? We don't need to even read these papers. The "always on your side mainstream media" is reporting these events, and Israeli's politicians and IDF are showing the world how warmongering and bloodthirsty they are.
Am I the only one who sees getting news directly from [Hamas](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/world/hamas/video-interview-ahmed-asmar-mid-level-hamas-official/article586808/) a problem? Or does this sub hate Jews first, regardless of truth.
Assuming Israel is executing prisoners without evidence shows a bias. You’re willing to accept a vile claim without proof because you’re have a predisposed position.
I've seen plenty of evidence of Israel shooting civilians. It's not a new thing. They even shot other Israelis. Sorry but Israel has plenty of form for vile behaviour.
For example, here is Israel using a Palestinian as a human shield, even dressing them up in an Israeli uniform.
https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/gjMF9HfNWW
I see a captured prisoner dressed in armor while being transported. I don’t see anyone using him as a human shield… and if he is, that’s a shitty human shield. 3 of the 4 israelis are completely exposed
'It's not a human shield unless it physically protects all the soldiers from all the angles of fire'
'it doesn't matter if the massive bomb destroys the whole neighborhood, it's Hamas fault for using them as human shields'
So much Palestine hate here damn.
It's all variations quoting from the same single source that no one's heard of. Who is the Palestinian Prisoner Society and why should they be trusted?
Edit. down voting for asking a fair question on the evidence is just sad. If you care about Palestine or the cause you'd actually answer the question and go out of your way to show the truth bc the truth matters more than being right.
Downvote if you hate Palestinians.
Fair question and I normally do after someone provides evidence. Either it's bullshit and no one will answer (no point in researching) or it's true and should be shared more widely with better sourcing.
Don't be racist, there's no need.
This is reddit, truth is often a shield word for bad faith arguments. You're talking about a concrete event not a matter of perspective. I simply asked for someone more knowledgeable on the single source to speak up. It could have been a hamas spokesman for all I know but no one has bothered. Whether the Palestinian Prisoner Society is a reliable and fair source of information is relevant to the accusation. The amount of downvoting for asking good questions leads me to believe people here have low faith in the "truth" or accuracy of the source. My question is a mater of perspective, is Palestinian Prisoner Society biased but accurate are they unbiased and accurate or are they biased and inaccurate. You can claim anything but the proof is in the accuracy of the information they provide. You can claim they're Hamas just like you can claim I'm a hasbara but it's irrelevant to the question and accuracy of information.
In an argument you abuse people who question when your source is unreliable not when your source is accurate. When you have "truth" or accurate information it stands on its own. Now I can choose not to believe the information but that's not the same as trying to shut someone up for asking for further information.
For people who want sources of Israeli atrocities:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2wo0F6LCUC/?igsh=ZWF0aDF2dWo2OWwz
https://www.instagram.com/hatem.h.rawagh?igsh=MW51ZTl1MHJpaHA1bA==
https://www.instagram.com/motaz_azaiza?igsh=ODc2Y3VoZ3k1azZq
https://www.instagram.com/belalkh?igsh=amxlc3JlMGxnZ3l0
Feel free to scroll these IG pages
Here’s some Israeli sources:
https://www.instagram.com/gazainhebrew?igsh=ZXE0ejV2MHpwanNx
https://www.instagram.com/becca.explains.the.occupation?igsh=a3BuOG83NjFobndt
https://www.instagram.com/yehavit?igsh=dnYyYmk4bTltZXlu
It’s almost like Israel doesn’t allow journalists in Gaza and the ones that are there, they kill. It’s so people can go and comment “instagram or social media isn’t a valid source”
Don't be a dumbass if i posted "evidence" from instagram for a pro israel narrative, you would make the same complaint as me. Why is it so hard for people such as yourself to be consistent with your scrutiny?
Dude pro israel people feel like the mainstream media is pro palestine/ hamas. It's all just one outraged circlejerk. The least you could do is universal apply the same amount of scrutiny, if you cant do that then you're genuinely a sheep.
Yeah you don't see me posting from some wild unverified sources or claims. I even often dismiss articles from Israeli sources. It's really not that hard to use some critical thinking and apply universal scrutiny.
Yes. Wake people up to the fact that in handcuffs everywhere, there is a Hamas terror cell.
We need to immediately bomb all handcuffs in the world to eliminate this new Hamas threat!!!
Theres gonna be some random dude commenting bullshit about how they were all hamas terrorist rapist baby killer IED factory worker rape den managing villains
The MSM did, but the people and social media did not. Protests, boycotts, and pressuring leaders is ongoing.
This is not going away until Palestine is free.
Unfortunately western media has never cared. Day after the ICJ ruling most papers in the UK led with a story on a murder in Nottingham
Instead of the ICJ ruling that Israel may be committing genocide
Honestly there seems to be no other explaination for this. Especially since they executed 3 people in a hospital in the West Bank yesterday, so there's clear precedent of Israel executing incapacitated people
They’ve been doing this for a while. The only reason why this conflict is different from many previous conflicts is the brutality & scale coupled with the fact that you have media outside Western control.
TikTok (I know lmao) is outside western control. They allow videos critical of Israel that Facebook would never allow.
This is a huge factor that people don't really comprehend. Yes, TikTok started as a joke, and still in most part is...but it is outside western media influences. This is a huge difference.
This is a war of narratives, and Israel and US have lost a critical connection point to the youth by overlooking this media channel.
Plus, you know, the truth does have a weird way of worming its way out. Genocide is kind hard to hide at this point.
The 3 people were planning an October-7-inspired attack on Israel and were hiding in the hospital thinking they were safe. They were not incapacitated, just exploiting the hospital for their needs. They were known Hamas and Islamic Jihad operatives and weapons were found on them in the hospital.
That's your explanation.
One guy had just got paralyzed smh. But for the record they could stop 3 people in a hospital but hundreds slipped through undetected after planning it for a year and also they knew they were planning for a year as soon as they did it . No that doesn’t sound suspicious at all
Their argument is helped by Hamas, PIJ, PA and Israel all publishing their names and affiliations.
That story is over a day old, with every involved faction saying yes they were militants/terrorists
It’s been front page news for over a day. If you’re commenting on it there’s no excuse for not knowing the most basics of facts
1 was an injured hamas commander (claimed to making plans) and meeting the 2 PIJ (non patient) fighters
Atrocities like this that would normally shake the world have become daily occurrences in Gaza and people have normalized it, I don't whether because the victims have been extremely dehumanized or because the perpetrators are untouchable
This is on the milder side on what has been reported but not had proper reporting or verification to back it up. I’m not saying those claims are true but maybe they are they just couldn’t verify it in a war zone controlled by a military.
I'm sure Israel was just too busy looking for the hostages held by Hamas, Because that is all I ever hear about when Israel does these horrific acts, people will line up to start spewing Zionist propaganda.
Just keep them coming. Add the evidence to the ICC and ICJ
The level of hate and barbarism from the IDF is already off the charts. I wonder if the soldiers would be proudly broadcasting their military service in this genocide or hide it in shame when they return to civilian life
We're talking about a military that shoots at Israeli hostages, shirtless, disarmed and waving a white flag, and on the ground speaking Hebrew because .. you know, they just assumed they were probably Palestinian hostages.
I'm sure there was a group in the western region of central Europe in the 1930s that persecuted an ethnic minority using these hateful and murderous tactics. Naxis? Nayis? Something like that. Utterly evil scum.
I read this stuff most days and realised that Hamas has done a great job in making the Zionists/ Israelis even more paranoid. Hence, their absolute defensiveness about everything they do. According to them, Hamas is illogically and irrationally everywhere.
Keep killing innocent Palestinians people but you know IDF people you are sending them all to life long luxurious life you can't even imagine ,in his world you can't have this but for yoursekf you are earning a long time harsh punishmentbif you don't repent
Indeed, those who have tortured the believing men and believing women and then have not repented will have the punishment of Hell, and they will have the punishment of the Burning Fire.
Many Scriptures in the Bible address the “Innocents,” and that word in the Strong's means “blameless.” Deuteronomy 19:10-that innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the Lord God giveth thee... Deut. 27:25 cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person
Jewish law views the shedding of innocent blood very seriously, and lists murder as one of three sins (along with idolatry and sexual immorality) that fall under the category of yehareg ve'al ya'avor, meaning "One should let himself be killed rather than violate it." Jewish law enumerates 613 Mitzvot, or commandments, ..
Did they forget to condemn Hamas?
/s
As every news about this conflict I will be waiting for more news on this, but if this is true, which I fear, this is horrible.
If you only care about war crimes when your enemy commits them then you don't really care about war crimes.
Accepting Israel exists as a state and has a right to continue to exist as a sovereign state is all Zionism is. Some members of the Knesset and Likud (and other far right parties) are Nazi-like. Israel didn't invade Gaza on October 7th, it was Hamas invading Israel unlike the Nazis who invaded Poland.
What happened on Oct 7 is not even 1% of what the Palestinians have suffered over the past 75 years. Yes Oct 7 was terrible, but I’m not going to pretend it was unprovoked and out of no where. Decades of human right violations, dehumanisation, implementing an apartheid system, imprisonment without a trial, illegal evictions and settlements has contributed to the radicalisation of Hamas.
Israel has more war crimes than Hamas
Not sure what you're on about. I looked at the top posts for today and this post (teeming with activity) was in the top five
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/comments/1afn5bd/iran_threatens_to_decisively_respond_to_potential/
Ah yes the world famous Turkish newspaper which makes a claim with no source or citation, the article doesn't even name the NGO. Its so funny that people who believe this will scrutinise every little discrepancy from a pro-israel narrative but they'll just eat up this unverified shit. Lol its pathetic
I mean there are videos posted online about this finding. It’s true gruesome to post on Reddit however. It’s depressing.
But if you are denying that this took place, then you are running out of arguments. You are still clinging to the idea that Israel are the just, good guys. There are no good guys in a war like this.
Not everything is a superhero movie.
The video literally shows nothing of what was claimed, some black bags and nothing else far cry from the claimed "30 handcuffed bodies executed from close range"
Dude yes, if the claims that israeli women were raped despite victim, doctors, first responders, onlookers in addition to video and photographic evidence isn't enough, then im sorry some black bin bags aren't going to cut it either
Given the accusations, showing the corpses is about all you can do. All the video shows were wrapped bodies with toe tags on them
It took video releases of the Oct 7th attacks for people to come to terms with what was done on that day and people still deny or what happened
Truth is the First victim in these situations, if they wanted this claim to be substantiated they needed to show the bodies before they were wrapped
The closest thing I've seen for denial is asking for proof of mass SA or any kind of SA. Which the UN is wanting to investigate that, which will likely require evidence.
You “haven’t heard any deny Hamas’s crimes…”
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Seriously, though… take it down a notch. Just use consistent standards of evidence… or don’t and keep on screeching.
You’re not listening. If photographs and video are insufficient proof of Hamas’s atrocities, then how are claims without photos or videos sufficient for claims of Israel’s atrocities?
I get that you’re not willing to use the same standards. You don’t need to keep arguing the point.
How? The West is in collaboration with Israel, of course they won’t report on this in any serious manner. Additionally Israel has not allowed 3rd party, or anyone for that matter, to enter Gaza to document and report on what’s going on. It’s the few journalists who were in Gaza, that Israel has not killed, who are reporting on the genocide.
So I’ve been defending Israel as the combatant with the moral authority in this war.
What the Hamas rapists and child killers did in October was inexcusable.
But, so is killing 30 handcuffed POWs.
Is this true ?
>What the Hamas rapists and child killers did in October was inexcusable.
Completely agree. War crimes and they need to be tried and punished
But we've seen Israel commit many war crimes since Oct 7th. They've flattened half of Gaza, killed 27000 people, including over 10000 children. They've shot people waving white flags numerous times. They've been accused of executing people many times, this is just the last in a long line
Re whether this is true or not. I believe it to be. There's video evidence (which is being disputed of course) and as I've said, Israel is not above executions
The video doesn't look good, but it is only showing body bags with a story of what happened to them. They really should have recorded the bodies as they were found first
As far as I know they’re not allowed into Gaza for inspections without IDF escorts. Just to provide specific aid. There was an effort to investigate the state of north Gaza by the UN which I believe had to be canceled
IDF would look guilt as sin if they refused them access. But instead of setting it up, the Palestinians just destroyed the evidence and expect us to believe them. I'm not that gullible.
IDF would look guilt as sin if they refused **them** access, ie. if they refused the UN, Red Cross or Amnesty International access to go and investigate this claim.
The video neither shows handcuffed or blindfolded bodies, just body bags with tags. If anyone knows of videos that show proof of the allegations please link them, which I'm sure there are considering how many people are featured in the videos. There have been unsubstantiated claims like this before, so skepticism is warranted.
Alternative Sources: [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/1/31/israels-war-on-gaza-live-severe-hunger-in-gaza-as-aid-trucks-surrounded](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/1/31/israels-war-on-gaza-live-severe-hunger-in-gaza-as-aid-trucks-surrounded) [https://www.palestinechronicle.com/handcuffed-and-executed-30-bodies-found-in-northern-gaza-school-video/](https://www.palestinechronicle.com/handcuffed-and-executed-30-bodies-found-in-northern-gaza-school-video/) [https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240131-30-palestinians-held-by-israel-found-dead-handcuffed-inside-gaza-school-ngo/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240131-30-palestinians-held-by-israel-found-dead-handcuffed-inside-gaza-school-ngo/)
Notice how this one comment with the links is getting the attention of all the Hasbara trolls? It’s not a coincidence.
Probably cause they're all unreliable sources. I believe it happened, but why not post a somewhat neutral source? Al Jazeera eg has shown they have a clear agenda when they broadcast the evidence of PIJ misfired rockets, only to take it down and blame it on IDF.
Ok buddy lmao
You don't think it's a bit sus that no neutral or semi neutral sources reported on it and no photo evidence was shared? With the source of the information being Hamas themselves? Which is interesting considering Palestinian militants have no issue with point blank execution of *civilians * by the hundreds and even raping them, while there's no evidence of IDF doing any such thing systematically? Calling people trolls for questioning the sources is just you being a troll, clearly you have no interest in discussing the topic or sharing evidence
All news has bias. Just because the name Al-Jazeera is Arabic and scary to you, doesn’t mean they’re not trustworthy in fact reporting.
That they aren’t trust worthy or fact reporting does make them untrustworthy and not fact reporting though.
Something got lost in translation from Hebrew to English buddy
They report facts the way Donald Trump reports facts. Pick any story and cross reference it against any credible four sources.
Allah sickbar 🤮
I have no issue with the language on their main channel. They have an English channel too, andI'dexpect a Qatari channel to be in Arabic. It's their blatant RT style lying and propaganda I object to. And yes, there definitely are Western channels and news media I feel the same way about. The West is far from propaganda free. It's like when I called Houthis barbarians and someone accused me of thinking that because they're dark skinned. It's cause of their terrorising of civilians in Yemen (yes, I feel the same about the US military when they drone strike weddings in Yemen) But yes, some level of bias exists in all media, I can live with that
Even the choice on what to report about is biased
That's so very true and is sadly a problem affecting most media where I'm from. You have to look through all sorta sources to not miss important news and even bureaus do it sometimes. I absolutely hate that
I mean do you think any of those sources are remotely objective? I'm also confused why you think engaging with the veracity of the claim is a bad thing. Edit: Doubled checked and what do you know all three had articles condemning Israel for the al-Ahli hospital strike. Of course we know how that one turned out. Maybe hold out for a site that has a bit higher standards of evidence.
How do you think that one turned out?
And with regard to al-Ahli -- here's a source that breaks down all the available evidence in incredibly thorough detail. I don't agree with Seth Abramson on all his conclusions - but the guy is meticulous with his approach. https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/from-start-to-finish-major-media
Forensic Architecture did a [preliminary breakdown](https://x.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414) alongside Al-Haq and earshot.ngo that completely debunked israel's claimed video evidence.
Did you seriously just reference an X post by some random account called Forensic Architecture as evidence with zero provided evidence other than a statement on that platform?
Odd, there should be a [continuation of the thread](https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422512350216329) below that initial tweet. Here is the [doppler analysis](https://twitter.com/earshot_ngo/status/1715381907230232929) from earshot, and their analysis of the alleged [conversation audio](https://twitter.com/earshot_ngo/status/1715383614232494424) released by israeli military. Twitter seems to be having issues today. Forensic Architecture is a multidisciplinary and international research collective based out of [Goldsmiths University of London](https://www.gold.ac.uk/news/10-years-of-forensic-architecture/). It was founded by British-Israeli architect Eyal Weizman, Professor of Spatial and Visual Cultures, Fellow of the British Academy, and Member of the Order of the British Empire. FA is part of the International Criminal Court's Technology Advisory Board, as well. In their investigations they work alongside international NGOs and nonprofits for legal, humanitarian, and human rights; independent field experts; community and grassroots organizations; academic and cultural institutions; and major international media. Here is their [GitHub repository](https://github.com/forensic-architecture). The agency has received [international recognition](https://forensic-architecture.org/about/recognition) for their investigations, which have been presented in parliamentary inquiries, international courtrooms, United Nations assemblies, [peoples tribunals](https://theintercept.com/2017/10/18/germany-neo-nazi-murder-trial-forensic-architecture/), museum and gallery exhibitions, and [so on](https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2018/feb/25/forensic-architects-eyal-weizman). They have a permanent collection in the Victoria and Albert Museum. Here is information [on their funding](https://forensic-architecture.org/about/funding/). You can sort their cases by location, methodology, and category. On each investigation they clearly state: who commissioned it, where it was presented, the location in question, and what methodology was used. Their investigations present detailed and transparent analysis, which often [challenges official testimonies](https://garage.vice.com/en_us/article/8xdkvp/forensic-architecture-and-fake-news) Forensic Architecture's [investigation](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/digital-violence-how-the-nso-group-enables-state-terror) into surveillance of journalists and activists was instrumental in exposing NSO's [Pegasus spyware](https://hyperallergic.com/652554/forensic-architecture-tracks-activist-journalist-surveillance/). Their findings on [israel's use of white phosphorus](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/white-phosphorus-in-urban-environments), presented to the UN, led to the israeli military declaration that [they would stop use of the munitions](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22310544). UN Special Rapporteur commissions: • [Knock on the Roof: Drone Strike in Beit Lahiya](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/knock-on-the-roof-drone-strike-in-beit-lahiya) • [Drone Strike in Miranshah](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/drone-strike-in-miranshah) • [Drone Strike in Mir Ali](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/drone-strike-in-mir-ali) • [Drone Strikes on a Jirga in Detta Khel](https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/drone-strikes-on-a-jirga-in-datta-khel)
Bud even the HRW doesn't buy it was from Israel.
Only the most dense people would think the Al Ahli bombing was IDF when many sources of video footage showed clearly it came from within Gaza and very close to the hospital (they shot from behind the hospital, thereby endangering civilians and showing they've no respect for life, including palestinians) and interestingly AJ livestreamed the evidence, but then took it down because it didn't support their agenda. Al Jazeera is just a propaganda channel with no journalistic integrity. The fact that no reliable source reported on this incident and no proof could be produced makes it fair to be skeptical
Why did Isreal bomb 20/22 hospitals in Palestine?
Those were KKHAMAASpitals
This is consistent with the broader scope Israel's genocidal policies—demolishing graveyards and destroying close to 70% of structures, telling people to go to a safe zone then bombing it (and oh boy I could add A LOT more). I'm well aware of the 'objective' sources you endorse. Which is exactly the reason why I can’t take any of you people seriously anymore. Ps these are reliable sources that post other sources and videos. that is a concrete fact.
If these articles turn out to be true and confirmed then be as angry as you want but your alarm bells should be ringing here no matter your opinion is on what's going on. OP's post reads like a viral Facebook gif that got picked up by media as rage bait and of the others, one is a direct copypaste word for word and one is claiming that israel is using exhumed decomposing bodies for organ transplants....you can't use rotting organs for transplants so clearly made up and they decided to print it anyway. Incredibly suspect sources and journalism.
You mean the graveyard with Hamas tunnels below? I fully agree that it's absolutely deplorable that Hamas keeps using hospitals and holy sites as protection.
You mean the cemetery that was destroyed and the Israeli drone footage proved that it wasn't actually on top of the tunnel? And then they refused entry for CNN to investigate by going back in, even if they didn't take cameras?
When CNN (which only shows footage approved by the army) is skeptical.... They have been loyal propagandists, all along.. Yet , this was decent journalism
Lmao
Some shills think they are being clever! It does get tiresome...but defending genocide requires dedication.
So because you feel it's true it must be true?
Why not, it works for people saying God gave them Israel in the Torah
Yea I'm not Jewish I don't give a shit what their book says. Only reason I think Israel should exist is because it currently exist and has for a while now. If it was 100+ years ago I might be inclined to agree with you, but that ship has long sailed.
Are all Israelis vile assholes? Or is it only the fake accounts on Reddit? You really are doing a good job of getting your country to be the most hated on the planet. Well done, great Hasbara!
What do you believe is an objective source? Perhaps we can all agree that any state funded media source, or a source originating from a certain country can certainly have biases. But to think that Arab sources are to be disregarded because they are SOOOO BIASED while ignoring the bias of sources from other news organizations like Fox, BBC, MSNBC, Haaretz, and others is frankly racist. It's because it's "Arab" that you disregard it - CLEARLY it's corrupt right just like corrupt Arab countries, right? Ignore the fact that the European / Western nations are the root cause of 90% of the worlds geopolitical problems -- but everyone else are terrorists right? How many non-western countries have the funds and means to fund coups, install puppet dictators, funds the Jakarta method? At some point, westerners need to come to terms that our privileged lives have been established on the back of human atrocity, racial prejudice and human suffering -- EVEN TO THIS DAY. Long story short - it's wiser to acknowledge a bias, review the information and draw a conclusion. It's less wise to completely disregard information because you don't like the messenger.
Gonna have to disagree that considering bias makes me racist. One of them is legit state media from a backer of hamas. That goes a bit beyond simple bias and when they've already shown they're willing to jump the gun and make broad claims based on spotty evidence they sort orf lose the benefit of the doubt. I mean have any of these provided retractions on the Al-Ahli hospital story?
I think the mountain of lies that have come from Israeli IDF and government representatives would be a greater point of hesitation to be honest. They have had a history of projection and blatantly deceitful claims. With regard to Al-Ahli, check out this detailed article from Seth Abramson. I linked him before, and he will say things I don’t always like / agree with, but I cannot say he doesn’t do his homework and seems to have an obsession with pursuing integrity (even given his bias). https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/from-start-to-finish-major-media
What is there to retract? It's still unconfirmed what actually happened. People now are generally concluding it was most likely a PIJ misfire, but again it hasn't been actually investigated and confirmed yet. I'm curious, do you apply the same level of criticism/skepticism to Israeli media outlets? Times of Israel, Jpost, ynet, etc.
It didn't stop them from making incredibly strong accusations of Israel before they had a lick of evidence. Now, I don't really agree that the results are as questionable as you're implying, but do they have any sort of retraction softening their accusations? >I'm curious, do you apply the same level of criticism/skepticism to Israeli media outlets? Times of Israel, Jpost, ynet, etc. Yes, I never use them as a source when talking to people who support the Palestinian side nor do I personally read or take what I've seen from them at face value. Generally I try to source things like Reuters or AP since they generally feel a bit more unbiased or I use towards further left sites that that tend to have more sympathy for the Palestinian cause.
It is wise to acknowledge bias but given that Israel accuses so many well respected humanitarian organisations of bias towards them I’m expecting if this is revealed to be genuine and is reported there will be accusations of bias to anyone covering it. That’s a prediction of how this will play out. If one of your trusted sources concurs it happened do you think you’ll believe it? I’m really curious not being a dick.
>It didn't stop them from making incredibly strong accusations of Israel before they had a lick of evidence Well, let's think about this critically for a second. So the rocket is generally thought to be most likely a PIJ misfire. If that is true, Hamas knows it wasn't them and Israel knows it wasn't them either. So doesn't it make sense that they would blame each other? And this isn't even factoring in the point that Israel, for some weird reason, decided to fabricate evidence implicating the other side: [https://today.lorientlejour.com/article/1353910/al-ahli-hospital-attack-flaws-in-the-israeli-version-of-events.html](https://today.lorientlejour.com/article/1353910/al-ahli-hospital-attack-flaws-in-the-israeli-version-of-events.html) If Israel really didn't do it, why did they feel the need to fabricate evidence demonstrating the "other side did it to themselves"? >Now, I don't really agree that the results are as questionable as you're implying My stance is the same as most analysts' stance, that it most likely was a PIJ misfire. That doesn't mean it's confirmed though, there is still some dispute I'm just referring to the general consensus. >but do they have any sort of retraction softening their accusations? But again, why would they if it's still unconfirmed? If Israel actually let independent investigators in, which they aren't, we would have likely had the answer ages ago. And not to deflect, but it's not like Israel is handing out retractions for the multitude of lies they've spread. I'm happy to provide examples here. >Yes, I never use them as a source when talking to people who support the Palestinian side nor do I personally read or take what I've seen from them at face value. Generally I try to source things like Reuters or AP since they generally feel a bit more unbiased or I use towards further left sites that that tend to have more sympathy for the Palestinian cause. Fair enough, good for you.
>If that is true, Hamas knows it wasn't them and Israel knows it wasn't them either. So doesn't it make sense that they would blame each other We're not talking about hamas though. We're talking about these news sites. The idea that they would just uncritically accept and push the words of hamas is not a point in your favor. Also not convinced hamas and PIJ don't communicate. There might be some initial confusion, but I'd assume they found out sooner rather than later. >And this isn't even factoring in the point that Israel, for some weird reason, decided to fabricate evidence implicating the other side: Is this what you're referring to? >According to two independent Arab journalists, who spoke to UK’s Channel 4 News the recording was a fabrication because of “the language, accent, dialect, syntax and tone, none of which is credible.” Honestly, having two unnamed journalist say the language sounds off is not that convincing. Its pretty subjective for one and doesn't make sense that Israel would be struggle here since it has plenty of native Arab speakers. Beside they are an Iranian proxy so I don't know if it's impossible for them to have foreign people fighting alongside hamas. To be honest, there are some pretty weak defenses put forth in that article. For instance: >“Islamic Jihad and Hamas have demonstrated high-level military skills since the beginning of the fighting,” Hamade said. “It is not very likely that they could make such a mistake, especially in Gaza, which is a flat land.”... >While Hamas and Islamic Jihad missiles have previously landed inside the Gaza Strip, there is no evidence of them hitting densely populated areas in the city center or causing significant damage. It may, therefore, raise questions as to why this time a missile struck a hospital in the heart of Gaza. This little bit "logic" is interesting to say the least. It sounds like they're trying very hard to push something >That doesn't mean it's confirmed though, there is still some dispute I'm just referring to the general consensus. Do you really think they would admit it if it was true? It's a propaganda game, they aren't going to ever admit fault. >But again, why would they if it's still unconfirmed? If Israel actually let independent investigators in, which they aren't, we would have likely had the answer ages ago. Except it was hamas in control of the area when it happened and they are the ones who collected all the shrapnel from the blast. They are the ones who didn't release it so this doesn't support your point at all. >And not to deflect, but it's not like Israel is handing out retractions for the multitude of lies they've spread. I'm happy to provide examples here. The whole point is not to trust super biased sources so I don't see how this helps your position.
If it wasn't fabricated, why would Israel retract this "evidence"? Because that certainly happened, btw, and there was no explanation for why they would delete/retract these bits of "evidence". Yes, your point is about not trusting biased sources, but you're insisting on a retraction for Al Ahli, something unconfirmed, but not for any of the multitude of lies Israel has told. Any idea as to why? Also, you didn't really put forth a compelling argument to dispel the sources the person you responded to gave. Are you just discrediting them because they are Arab/Muslim sources?
For those who won’t read the article, the jist is that the rocket likely came from an iron dome projectile.
Lots of nerve criticizing ops sourcing in a time where either Israeli propaganda or these sources are some the only options for information for people not on the ground. What do you recommend? The Times of Israel?
If you don't believe Israeli propaganda why do you think the alternative to just believe Qatari state media is a better option?
Becuase they provide better evidence. Independent corroboration, video footage, and minimal outlandish claims. The opposite could be said for Israel and its genocidal ulterior motives
Shut up you invalid sack of shit.
Links from well known jihadi sources.. same sources that claim that Israel airstirked Al-Ahli hospital. Pure propaganda, I’ll pass.
Hasbara trolls is when people call out poor quality evidence
Nah, that’s not what a Hasbara troll is. But you knew that 😉
Ok, you just use the term poorly to cope about poor evidence. If these commenters are Hasbara trolls, you are the other side of the coin 😊
🥱🥱 yeah, I am KKHAMASbara. Got me.
They are all the same source: Palestinian Prisoners Club
Hold on now, in the linked article its the "Palestinian Prisoners Society." The "Palestinian Prisoners Club" was referenced yesterday in the story about 30 dead people who were buried with blindfolds and bags on their heads. Story posted byt he same people, in the same format, too. I'm beginning to think some generative AI is running to produce false stories, and god forbid anyone try to verify this stuff in this sub.
Oh hey everyone, one story said club and another story about a different genocidal crime said society, therefore it’s AI! Lmao
People should probably cool their hate jets on this one as these are some of the most poorly written unconfirmed articles I've ever read in my life. One is a straight up copy paste and another is saying that Israel is stealing organs from exhumed decomposing bodies for transplants....I hope those Jews enjoy their new decomposing dead liver. This part is particularly telling as it's using a pretty nasty real historical event to purposely drum up rage, the issues is whoever wrote it didn't think it though as nobody is using rotting buried bodies for organ transplants. clearly a nonsensical lie and an untrustworthy source. There's an information war on both sides and this one stinks.
You’re linking Arab and pro palestine sources🤣 they’re not even unbiased! Of course they’re going to present israel horribly 🤣🤣🤣
When will you get it? We don't need to even read these papers. The "always on your side mainstream media" is reporting these events, and Israeli's politicians and IDF are showing the world how warmongering and bloodthirsty they are.
Put the date and time when linking to the Al Jazeera feed.
Am I the only one who sees getting news directly from [Hamas](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/world/hamas/video-interview-ahmed-asmar-mid-level-hamas-official/article586808/) a problem? Or does this sub hate Jews first, regardless of truth.
This sub literally mocks the accent of Israelis by saying "Khamas". It's textbook racism, allowed to run wild.
this is a jew hating sub. there are actual pro palestinian subs that are more worth your time than this one
Feel free to highlight any antisemitism... Calling Israel out on executing prisoners isn't antisemitism though.
Assuming Israel is executing prisoners without evidence shows a bias. You’re willing to accept a vile claim without proof because you’re have a predisposed position.
I've seen plenty of evidence of Israel shooting civilians. It's not a new thing. They even shot other Israelis. Sorry but Israel has plenty of form for vile behaviour. For example, here is Israel using a Palestinian as a human shield, even dressing them up in an Israeli uniform. https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/gjMF9HfNWW
I see a captured prisoner dressed in armor while being transported. I don’t see anyone using him as a human shield… and if he is, that’s a shitty human shield. 3 of the 4 israelis are completely exposed
'It's not a human shield unless it physically protects all the soldiers from all the angles of fire' 'it doesn't matter if the massive bomb destroys the whole neighborhood, it's Hamas fault for using them as human shields'
AJ is funded by qatar fyi also palestine chronicle… ok
So much Palestine hate here damn. It's all variations quoting from the same single source that no one's heard of. Who is the Palestinian Prisoner Society and why should they be trusted? Edit. down voting for asking a fair question on the evidence is just sad. If you care about Palestine or the cause you'd actually answer the question and go out of your way to show the truth bc the truth matters more than being right. Downvote if you hate Palestinians.
Video evidence
There is a video of what was found
why not just look them up? Or does it sound too spooky because it's an Arab name?
Fair question and I normally do after someone provides evidence. Either it's bullshit and no one will answer (no point in researching) or it's true and should be shared more widely with better sourcing. Don't be racist, there's no need.
So you have the means to know the truth but are choosing to ignore it to interact with this post? That’s bad faith.
This is reddit, truth is often a shield word for bad faith arguments. You're talking about a concrete event not a matter of perspective. I simply asked for someone more knowledgeable on the single source to speak up. It could have been a hamas spokesman for all I know but no one has bothered. Whether the Palestinian Prisoner Society is a reliable and fair source of information is relevant to the accusation. The amount of downvoting for asking good questions leads me to believe people here have low faith in the "truth" or accuracy of the source. My question is a mater of perspective, is Palestinian Prisoner Society biased but accurate are they unbiased and accurate or are they biased and inaccurate. You can claim anything but the proof is in the accuracy of the information they provide. You can claim they're Hamas just like you can claim I'm a hasbara but it's irrelevant to the question and accuracy of information. In an argument you abuse people who question when your source is unreliable not when your source is accurate. When you have "truth" or accurate information it stands on its own. Now I can choose not to believe the information but that's not the same as trying to shut someone up for asking for further information.
Most moral army in the world, everyone.
They don't believe that. They say it because they are trolling and know no one will stop them.
Horrific. Those poor people must have been terrified in their last moments
For people who want sources of Israeli atrocities: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2wo0F6LCUC/?igsh=ZWF0aDF2dWo2OWwz https://www.instagram.com/hatem.h.rawagh?igsh=MW51ZTl1MHJpaHA1bA== https://www.instagram.com/motaz_azaiza?igsh=ODc2Y3VoZ3k1azZq https://www.instagram.com/belalkh?igsh=amxlc3JlMGxnZ3l0 Feel free to scroll these IG pages Here’s some Israeli sources: https://www.instagram.com/gazainhebrew?igsh=ZXE0ejV2MHpwanNx https://www.instagram.com/becca.explains.the.occupation?igsh=a3BuOG83NjFobndt https://www.instagram.com/yehavit?igsh=dnYyYmk4bTltZXlu
When every single one of your sources are from instagram …
It’s almost like Israel doesn’t allow journalists in Gaza and the ones that are there, they kill. It’s so people can go and comment “instagram or social media isn’t a valid source”
When you can't attack the content, attack the source, right?
That’s all they got
Don't be a dumbass if i posted "evidence" from instagram for a pro israel narrative, you would make the same complaint as me. Why is it so hard for people such as yourself to be consistent with your scrutiny?
Why would you need to do that when the mainstream western media, the Israeli/US government, and most liberals already push the pro-Israel narrative?
Dude pro israel people feel like the mainstream media is pro palestine/ hamas. It's all just one outraged circlejerk. The least you could do is universal apply the same amount of scrutiny, if you cant do that then you're genuinely a sheep.
Does that thoughtless blueprint work for you?
Yeah you don't see me posting from some wild unverified sources or claims. I even often dismiss articles from Israeli sources. It's really not that hard to use some critical thinking and apply universal scrutiny.
Yeah, you should try it.
These are from independent sources and regular civilians. If you’re suggesting this is “fake” maybe you should address your biases first
Again super verifiable source …
Didn’t know videos of amputated children would trigger you this much… in the complete opposite direction lol good day
Better than Israeli sponsored politicians and news outlets
Instagram vs legacy media? Seriously …
There was hamas hiding in the handcuffs/s Seriously, is this enough to wake people up, the state of israel is a pathological liar
Yes. Wake people up to the fact that in handcuffs everywhere, there is a Hamas terror cell. We need to immediately bomb all handcuffs in the world to eliminate this new Hamas threat!!!
No it seems a majority of the world is ok with the genocide
Sadly our own governments lie to us through controlled media so who can really tell how much truth is in these reports.
The first casualty of war is the truth. That goes for both sides.
There's no evidence of this actually happening.
"There is no war in ba sing se"
Theres gonna be some random dude commenting bullshit about how they were all hamas terrorist rapist baby killer IED factory worker rape den managing villains
The media has moved on, this genocide has entered its silent phase. This is when the scariest things will occur
The MSM did, but the people and social media did not. Protests, boycotts, and pressuring leaders is ongoing. This is not going away until Palestine is free.
Unfortunately western media has never cared. Day after the ICJ ruling most papers in the UK led with a story on a murder in Nottingham Instead of the ICJ ruling that Israel may be committing genocide
Problem is the world has changed. The western media monopoly has been broken. We don’t control all information like we did 20 years ago.
> this genocide has entered its silent phase Everytime someone says 'genocide' 10,000 of my brain cells are killed. Thats Genocide.
You never had more than two to rub together to begin with.
True
Honestly there seems to be no other explaination for this. Especially since they executed 3 people in a hospital in the West Bank yesterday, so there's clear precedent of Israel executing incapacitated people
They’ve been doing this for a while. The only reason why this conflict is different from many previous conflicts is the brutality & scale coupled with the fact that you have media outside Western control. TikTok (I know lmao) is outside western control. They allow videos critical of Israel that Facebook would never allow.
This is a huge factor that people don't really comprehend. Yes, TikTok started as a joke, and still in most part is...but it is outside western media influences. This is a huge difference. This is a war of narratives, and Israel and US have lost a critical connection point to the youth by overlooking this media channel. Plus, you know, the truth does have a weird way of worming its way out. Genocide is kind hard to hide at this point.
The 3 people were planning an October-7-inspired attack on Israel and were hiding in the hospital thinking they were safe. They were not incapacitated, just exploiting the hospital for their needs. They were known Hamas and Islamic Jihad operatives and weapons were found on them in the hospital. That's your explanation.
One guy had just got paralyzed smh. But for the record they could stop 3 people in a hospital but hundreds slipped through undetected after planning it for a year and also they knew they were planning for a year as soon as they did it . No that doesn’t sound suspicious at all
[удалено]
Their argument is helped by Hamas, PIJ, PA and Israel all publishing their names and affiliations. That story is over a day old, with every involved faction saying yes they were militants/terrorists It’s been front page news for over a day. If you’re commenting on it there’s no excuse for not knowing the most basics of facts 1 was an injured hamas commander (claimed to making plans) and meeting the 2 PIJ (non patient) fighters
late zealous thumb ludicrous unpack quiet degree scarce unite disgusted *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Atrocities like this that would normally shake the world have become daily occurrences in Gaza and people have normalized it, I don't whether because the victims have been extremely dehumanized or because the perpetrators are untouchable
This is on the milder side on what has been reported but not had proper reporting or verification to back it up. I’m not saying those claims are true but maybe they are they just couldn’t verify it in a war zone controlled by a military.
I'm sure Israel was just too busy looking for the hostages held by Hamas, Because that is all I ever hear about when Israel does these horrific acts, people will line up to start spewing Zionist propaganda.
Just keep them coming. Add the evidence to the ICC and ICJ The level of hate and barbarism from the IDF is already off the charts. I wonder if the soldiers would be proudly broadcasting their military service in this genocide or hide it in shame when they return to civilian life
We're talking about a military that shoots at Israeli hostages, shirtless, disarmed and waving a white flag, and on the ground speaking Hebrew because .. you know, they just assumed they were probably Palestinian hostages.
I'm sure there was a group in the western region of central Europe in the 1930s that persecuted an ethnic minority using these hateful and murderous tactics. Naxis? Nayis? Something like that. Utterly evil scum.
I read this stuff most days and realised that Hamas has done a great job in making the Zionists/ Israelis even more paranoid. Hence, their absolute defensiveness about everything they do. According to them, Hamas is illogically and irrationally everywhere.
That NGO is about to get its funding cut by the US/Canada!!
If you're reading these atrocities and finding an angle to defend them and the IDF "cause" cause hang your head in shame.
Does it matter to you that this is completely uncorroborated and probably fake Hamas propaganda?
Of course if these accounts were found false the truth does matter but my view still won't change on the IDF apologists.
Annnnnd another war crime
The IDF are Nazis.
Straight up forgotten!
Keep killing innocent Palestinians people but you know IDF people you are sending them all to life long luxurious life you can't even imagine ,in his world you can't have this but for yoursekf you are earning a long time harsh punishmentbif you don't repent Indeed, those who have tortured the believing men and believing women and then have not repented will have the punishment of Hell, and they will have the punishment of the Burning Fire. Many Scriptures in the Bible address the “Innocents,” and that word in the Strong's means “blameless.” Deuteronomy 19:10-that innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the Lord God giveth thee... Deut. 27:25 cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person Jewish law views the shedding of innocent blood very seriously, and lists murder as one of three sins (along with idolatry and sexual immorality) that fall under the category of yehareg ve'al ya'avor, meaning "One should let himself be killed rather than violate it." Jewish law enumerates 613 Mitzvot, or commandments, ..
Did they forget to condemn Hamas? /s As every news about this conflict I will be waiting for more news on this, but if this is true, which I fear, this is horrible.
Add to the list of war crimes. No one is surprised anymore about how immoral the IOF can be
NGO has rumors of 30 dead Palestinians and asks the IDF to confirm. what a stupid article.
It's a propaganda war with social media and zero journalistic standards and integrity in 2024.
Remember that time the IDF were executing Gazans in schools a few weeks ago and then they were like “oops sorry that never actually happened”??
Do we have pictures..this has been the standard for any accusations against Hamas.
We have videos actually. They just always get taken down on Reddit. Gee I wonder why.
Another war crime that will go unpunished.
Yet another WARCRIME. If Israel thinks this outrage will pass it's got another thing coming.
Nobody talks back to Israel. I have never seen a president in my lifetime have enough of a backbone to tell Israel no on anything.
This is not an actual reliable new source lol
Straight up war crimes committed by a Zionist Nazi regime
If you only care about war crimes when your enemy commits them then you don't really care about war crimes. Accepting Israel exists as a state and has a right to continue to exist as a sovereign state is all Zionism is. Some members of the Knesset and Likud (and other far right parties) are Nazi-like. Israel didn't invade Gaza on October 7th, it was Hamas invading Israel unlike the Nazis who invaded Poland.
What happened on Oct 7 is not even 1% of what the Palestinians have suffered over the past 75 years. Yes Oct 7 was terrible, but I’m not going to pretend it was unprovoked and out of no where. Decades of human right violations, dehumanisation, implementing an apartheid system, imprisonment without a trial, illegal evictions and settlements has contributed to the radicalisation of Hamas. Israel has more war crimes than Hamas
Why does this subreddit say world events but it's just another clown car of links from anti Israeli websites?
Not sure what you're on about. I looked at the top posts for today and this post (teeming with activity) was in the top five https://www.reddit.com/r/worldevents/comments/1afn5bd/iran_threatens_to_decisively_respond_to_potential/
Ah yes the world famous Turkish newspaper which makes a claim with no source or citation, the article doesn't even name the NGO. Its so funny that people who believe this will scrutinise every little discrepancy from a pro-israel narrative but they'll just eat up this unverified shit. Lol its pathetic
I mean there are videos posted online about this finding. It’s true gruesome to post on Reddit however. It’s depressing. But if you are denying that this took place, then you are running out of arguments. You are still clinging to the idea that Israel are the just, good guys. There are no good guys in a war like this. Not everything is a superhero movie.
The video literally shows nothing of what was claimed, some black bags and nothing else far cry from the claimed "30 handcuffed bodies executed from close range"
Do you want to look at corpses? Like come on.
Dude yes, if the claims that israeli women were raped despite victim, doctors, first responders, onlookers in addition to video and photographic evidence isn't enough, then im sorry some black bin bags aren't going to cut it either
Can you share some of the video and photographic evidence? Since it exists.
Given the accusations, showing the corpses is about all you can do. All the video shows were wrapped bodies with toe tags on them It took video releases of the Oct 7th attacks for people to come to terms with what was done on that day and people still deny or what happened Truth is the First victim in these situations, if they wanted this claim to be substantiated they needed to show the bodies before they were wrapped
Defund the UN. Excellent..
Claimed by a "local NGO", which won't even put its name behind the claim.
Remember, folks… this same “community” is refusing to acknowledge Hamas’s atrocities on October 7th with more evidence than this. Seems legit…
How would any of that, even if it were true (which I haven't anyone deny the Oct 7th crimes), discredit the evidence here of Israel's war crimes?
The closest thing I've seen for denial is asking for proof of mass SA or any kind of SA. Which the UN is wanting to investigate that, which will likely require evidence.
You “haven’t heard any deny Hamas’s crimes…” BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Seriously, though… take it down a notch. Just use consistent standards of evidence… or don’t and keep on screeching.
How would any of that discredit the evidence here of Israel's war crimes? You didn't answer the question
What evidence? None was provided.
You’re not listening. If photographs and video are insufficient proof of Hamas’s atrocities, then how are claims without photos or videos sufficient for claims of Israel’s atrocities? I get that you’re not willing to use the same standards. You don’t need to keep arguing the point.
I never said Hamas didn't commit atrocities on Oct 7th, nor that the evidence wasn't sufficient to prove that
I specifically said that the “worldevents” subreddit was denying October 7th. How did you manage to make that about you, personally?
Who believes this bullshit fake news? Oh that’s right. You do.
No western news sources?
Western sources have been lagging behind source on the ground. Give it time
"No pro israel sources?" Ftfy
How? The West is in collaboration with Israel, of course they won’t report on this in any serious manner. Additionally Israel has not allowed 3rd party, or anyone for that matter, to enter Gaza to document and report on what’s going on. It’s the few journalists who were in Gaza, that Israel has not killed, who are reporting on the genocide.
So I’ve been defending Israel as the combatant with the moral authority in this war. What the Hamas rapists and child killers did in October was inexcusable. But, so is killing 30 handcuffed POWs. Is this true ?
>What the Hamas rapists and child killers did in October was inexcusable. Completely agree. War crimes and they need to be tried and punished But we've seen Israel commit many war crimes since Oct 7th. They've flattened half of Gaza, killed 27000 people, including over 10000 children. They've shot people waving white flags numerous times. They've been accused of executing people many times, this is just the last in a long line Re whether this is true or not. I believe it to be. There's video evidence (which is being disputed of course) and as I've said, Israel is not above executions
The video doesn't look good, but it is only showing body bags with a story of what happened to them. They really should have recorded the bodies as they were found first
If this is true, then why are the Palestinians moving the bodies and destroying the evidence?
What independent parties are allowed in Gaza to investigate?
The UN, the Red Cross, Amnesty International, etc.
As far as I know they’re not allowed into Gaza for inspections without IDF escorts. Just to provide specific aid. There was an effort to investigate the state of north Gaza by the UN which I believe had to be canceled
IDF would look guilt as sin if they refused them access. But instead of setting it up, the Palestinians just destroyed the evidence and expect us to believe them. I'm not that gullible.
They deny access all the time due to safety and security reasons. Even to journalists lol. I’m happy to be wrong but I’m pretty sure I’m right.
IDF would look guilt as sin if they refused **them** access, ie. if they refused the UN, Red Cross or Amnesty International access to go and investigate this claim.
There’s no evidence that they have allowed any third party investigations.
Sure
Do we have any prove? Photo? Videos?
NGO? Another hamasis UNRWA?
Unsubstantiated bullshit claims eaten up by the nakbabots.
More fake Palestinian nonsense.
So the source is Hamas? Got it.
What’s the source? The Hamazis?
Is this like the grandma the IDF found handcuffed to a bed and freed? She said Hamas left her to die.
Always look at source. Fake news
Is my mom a good source too? 😂 A little critical thinking goes a LONG way, folks. Reddit, keeping it ‘real’. 👍🏿
Convinced, nearly everybody is an uneducated emotional surrender clown
The video neither shows handcuffed or blindfolded bodies, just body bags with tags. If anyone knows of videos that show proof of the allegations please link them, which I'm sure there are considering how many people are featured in the videos. There have been unsubstantiated claims like this before, so skepticism is warranted.