Most of us are not denying that October 7th was horrific for the people involved.
What we are saying is that no action, no matter how horrific, can be used to justify genocide. No action can be used to justify what is being done to Gaza right now.
The over 27 000 dead are not worth less than the significantly lower number of people hurt or killed on October 7th. And the 2 million people living in Gaza are not worth less than the 200 hostages.
I have heard a lot of people call October 7th “our 9/11”. And I always thought it was an extremely fitting comparison. Your government provided weapons to a terrorist organization to destabilize a people you wanted to steal from, then had the very same organization use those weapons to attack you. Then you went insane and started bombing and killing anyone in the area with no regard for human life, killing more innocent people than the terrorist organization ever did.
You see, no one goes “9/11 was great actually”. What people say is that the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians that followed in Iraq was a crime against humanity.
No one's disputing that Hamas did awful things Oct. 7th.
What's in dispute is the atrocity propaganda, which frankly is baffling because whenever Israel gets exposed in its lies it just minimizes what actually happened.
The special envoy should spend a week in Gaza, she'll witness even more things she's never seen before at the hands of the IDF.
when i proved to a woman that the story of the fetus being cut out was fabricated, all she could say was "well, im sorry the attacks on jews weren't brutal enough for you!"
its the weaponization of "jews" that pisses me off the most
Actually there are legitimate disputes that hamas did rapes. Hamas operatives were present in israel for 2 hours on a hostage taking mission. The gate was breached and fighting to contain the breach extended for 8 hours. There is no way you will convince me hamas directives included taking a little break for rape. Hamas is being blamed for the boiled over rage of an oppressed and existentialky threatened people.
The atrocity bullshit comes into full light when you learn that only one baby was killed that day. Not 40 beheaded babies. No babies in ovens.
None of it was true. Why believe them now?
Full stop.
This is what they do. Minimize the stories that make them look bad, maximize the stories that make them look good.
At some point you got to ask yourself “are the people trying to minimize rape and murder really the good guys?”.
Questioning the narrative pushed by a genocidal entity ain't really what I would call "minimizing rape and murder" but sure.
No one is arguing Hamas didn't do evil things on Oct 7. People are arguing that Israel is exagerrating the crimes while minimizing its own. This way, they can demonize Hamas --> justify the use of inhumane fighting strategies in Gaza that harm everyone but Hamas.
No people are arguing that hamas was justified for rape and murder of innocent civilians in this thread.
Just because you don’t read it that way doesn’t mean the rest of us do. You being willfully blind to conversations you don’t like is not everyone else’s problem, it’s yours.
Edit:
Funny how it’s “asking questions” now.
Reminds me of how neo-nazis just “ask questions” about the number of Jewish people killed in the holocaust.
I don’t trust these “questions” because the malice behind them is so childishly transparent even a casual observer could notice their true intent.
Is it possible that asking questions does not mean outright doubt? Is it possible that people feel compelled to make sense of an event, so they ask questions. Or do people have to take everything at face value and are not allowed to even ask what time of day something happened?
I have a sense of the broader context as to why members of the Jewish community are defensive and can understand that that would make people apprehensive to say the very least.
This is not a one sided conflict and viewing the enemy as human does mean outright justification.
Rape definitely did happen but I doubt that it was systematic rape, like using rape as a weapon of war that was commanded by the top hamas guys. That’s in dispute.
The atrocities of Nanking happened on territory held by Japan with little concern for reciprocity from the underprepared local Chinese forces there. The Japanese oppressors had impunity & exercised with extreme cruelty.
Oct 7 couldn't be more the opposite. Oct 7 was more like a hit & run attack where the Israeli response was forth coming & would be severe. Is it impossible they took a raping spree break during the middle of the tumult? No.
Is it probable that happened? Where in 2023 there is no DNA evidence collected, no raw footage available for neutral 3rd party investigators, where the Israeli police are looking for people to collaborate rape claims? I can't say yes, can you?
As for the Israelis vs hospital situation I've seen independent investigations go both ways with the ones closer to state aparatuses blaming hamas, info war is crazy indeed
The Israelis were warned a year in advance of every detail of the attack. Where was Mossad? Where was the IDF? How come the Israeli government wasn't on high alert on the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur attack?
**The evidence suggests that Netanyahu allowed the attack to happen.** in order to justify the Final Solution - ethnic cleansing of Gaza.
You mean the 50% of Palestinians that weren't eligible to vote back in 2006 when the last election happened?
Sure... 'they' picked the government. lol.
Meanwhile Netanyahu has repeatedly stated that Hamas is good for killing the Palestinian cause as it divides the Palestinans and makes picking them apart easier.
Hamas has everything to gain from this attack. The worldwide narrative is now that Israel is a colonizing force and an 80 year old oppressor + the new generation of kids who lost everything are prime potential recruits.
Good job Israel, Hamas couldn't have asked for a better recruiting agency.
Yea they probably should have kicked out hamas when they started seeing their children be groomed as biological weapons for Iran.
I mean, I wouldn’t live in a country where my kids are being groomed as child soldiers let alone support it.
As for “world opinions”; hamas raped and murdered to further their political goals, and the Palestinians cheered. And here you are, being an apologist for terrorists. Isreal is pretty justified to protect itself from nut jobs like you and hamas. You will find most people outside your bubble think this way. They think you’re a terrorist sympathizer and rape apologist.
I was under the impression there was verified video of women with bloodied crotches coming out at the time. Is this footage not verified or did it not exist in the first place?
there is, but the one i remember seeing, you couldn't be sure how the blood got there, or even if its her own blood...
its entirely plausible for sexual violence to have happened, but rock solid proof (evidence that you would view as compelling if it was your friend or relative charged) seems much less certain.
There is. Looked at this stories on this sub. It's susposed to be worldevents but literally only has Palestine stories and a huge chunk have shit sources. This sub was created by hamas sympathizers and anti-semites.
There's footage of Hamas soldiers dragging women through the street with blood pouring from between their legs. I'm not sure why you think rape is beyond the capability of people who mass slaughtered civilians and support a brand of Islamists law that allows you to rape and enslave enemies, ISIS did the same thing for the same reasons. It's weird that people can't accept what they did. You can be against Israel's actions without living in denial about what Hamas is.
They were doing exactly what the Jewish militias did in 1948. These terrorists knew all about the Deir Yassin massacre -as do you.
**Since you are condemning rape and murder, why don't you condemn the Jewish terrorists who committed the Deir Yassin massacre?**
*Some of the Palestinian Arab villagers were killed in the course of the battle, while others were massacred by the Jewish militias while trying to flee or surrender. A number of Palestinian Arab prisoners were executed, some after being paraded in West Jerusalem, where they were jeered, spat at, stoned, looted, and eventually murdered. In addition to the killing and widespread looting, there may have been cases of mutilation and rape.*
It would take great effort for you to condemn the Deir Yassin massacre, apparently. You are unable to condemn an atrocity when it's committed by Israelis. And you don't want anybody to know that the Hamas terrorists were raised on stories of the Deir Yassin massacre.
You don't want anybody to remember the Deir Yassin massacre even though nobody in the Middle East has forgotten about it. It doesn't fit your narrative.
Wait, I don't want anyone to know about it? That's funny as it wasn't even the topic of discussion and now you're making wild claims I'm part of some conspiracy to hide an event from nearly 75 years ago? What exactly is this narrative I'm guilty of, since I didn't even talk about this event?
I can say two things unequivocally, that I condemn rape and murder and that you are a absolute mouth breathing fool barely capable of a conversation.
If you're going to talk to people actually read what they say rather than rambling nonsense that had absolutely nothing to do with the context of the discussion.
You do know rape is wrong in general right? No need to deflect from your sides rapes if we all just admit rape is wrong right?
It couldn’t possibly be that you’re an apologist for rapist terrorists?
I’ve looked at the website and I didn’t see anything like that- I’m not denying it exists just wondering where you saw it? I think it’s absurd to say no rapes happened but have come up blank when trying to get proof to back this up. I’ve heard friends say that muslims wouldn’t do that and I think that’s possibly the most ridiculous evidence I’ve ever heard.
I think what happened was terrible without the rapes. Same about the beheaded babies.
You may play make believe or you can educate yourself and verify.
[Evidence points to systematic use of rape and sexual violence by Hamas in 7 October attacks](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/evidence-points-to-systematic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks)
[“The growing body of evidence about reported sexual violence is particularly harrowing," two U.N.-appointed independent experts said in a statement on Monday. The statement referred to allegations of sexual torture including rape and gang rape as well as mutilations and gunshots to genital areas.”](https://www.reuters.com/world/un-experts-demand-accountability-sexual-torture-during-hamas-attacks-2024-01-08/)
This whole sub is insane. It's called worldevents but every single story is about Palestine.
This sub was created by hamas supporters and Nazis to push their agenda. There is literally people on here referencing YouTube and tiktok over real news.
There a few subs similar to this one. I came to the same conclusions. It’s probably time to mute this sub and let these Reddit idiots feed each other nonsense.
They have the evidence. They were toying with hostages and beheading Thai farm hands. It's not like they were going off alone and raping the woman, they were shooting them while they did it in groups. They are a bunch of horrible animals.
Even families of the supposed rape victims deny they were raped. No, there is no evidence. The organization that was supposed to have collected evidence was also behind the 40 beheaded babies lies.
Enough already
That's a bold face lie. Enough already. Testimony of a released hostage.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/former-hostage-tells-lawmakers-fellow-captive-was-sexually-abused-by-guard/
That’s the smoking gun? A girl that thought another girl was raped because kidnappers refused to let her give the other woman a hug?
That proves there was “systematic rape” or that rape was “weaponised”?
Even the New York Times article is having to backtrack on its sensational rape story.
Even? What victims? How many? Videos of actual rape? There are non. People are projecting.
Does it mean a rape didn’t happen ? No. You can’t prove a negative. But the claim that there was “systemic rape” is so far completely bogus.
Just like the beheaded babies lie. And the baby in the oven lie. And the cut embryo from the pregnant woman lie. And the tied children on clothesline lie.
The Israeli spokespeople kept on lying every chance they got.
Did you read the article? The UN lady said she saw all those things.
It's really bizarre you think a bunch of dumb hamas animals wouldn't rape someone.
lol Hamas said that they did the rapes and murder themselves. It’s your choice to side with terrorists.
No matter how you look at it. We, the Israelis, are not needing the permission of anyone to defend ourselves against anyone.
No, Hamas denied the rape and sexual violence allegations, and said they would welcome an investigation by the UN. They also offered that the ICC persecute both them and Israel and said they will accept the ICC judgment against Hamas members, it was Israel who refused an independent investigation by the UN.
Good thing that you are bold about it, makes its easier to drag you through court, convict, sanction, divest and isolate you.
Soon enough you'll be the north korea of the middle east.
Yes they should and see just how bad it has gotten because of Hamas. Or let me guess if you entered a hospital in Nazi Germany you’d bemoan what was being done to the Germans and refuse to blame Hitler?
Israel behaves like any fachist state, they assert their version of the truth, and use threats and intimidation against anyone who criticises them.
We don't believe a word they say, but we do notice their behaviour against citizens of other countries. Policing freedom of speech in foreign countries is an act of aggression and hostility.
For me, personally, there state of Israel has limited my freedom of speech more than any Muslim country ever did.
Was that point that he brushed off the barbaric attack of Jews and moved on without a care. Then retaliation came and he's up in arms because of what Jews are doing?
Yes, LA times being one of them
When Israel forbids medical examiners to speak to the press, and refuses to provide proof of rape etc. Then yes, people will have doubts.
“No one’s disputing that Hamas did awful things on Oct. 7”
What
Most of the Palestinians on the internet are claiming that the majority of civilian casualties on October 7 was from the Hannibal directive and Israel bombed the music festival. Meanwhile Hamas only killed soldiers and videos of militants killing civilians is out of context
Denialism of Oct 7 is reported in the news: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-07/ty-article/.premium/denial-of-hamas-october-7-massacre-is-gaining-pace-online/0000018b-aa45-d5aa-a19f-afffabf10000
The PA even released (later retracted) an official statement blaming Israeli “attack helicopters” for October 7
Seriously. This same source claims that hamas is using medical supplies to make rockets. (Because apparently concentrated hydrogen peroxide is explosive so the 3% solution used by hospitals must be going into weapons)
If a news source is going to fabricate stories that are so immediately recognizable as fairy tale as explosive bottles of peroxide, imagine what other bs they will make up.
Hamas was the government of Gaza for almost 20 years. Gaza had several universities where you could get degrees in chemistry and engineering. You don't think they recruited chemists?
You can concentrate peroxide by simply heating it on a stove to just under 100°C. Because hydrogen peroxide boils at 150°C, you're simply boiling off the water and increasing the concentration of peroxide.
Hamas are also not your average people, they have equipment to make weapons and are trained to make them.
Gaza University had literal biochemical degrees you could get masters in.
Hamas was trained by Iran.
I mean people keep treating Hamas like it wasn't the government of a 2 million person country.
Seeing how none of these atrocities were noticed when press toured the settlements the first week, it is concerning the extent of atrocities Israel reported 2 weeks later. What is more concerning is the conduct of Zaka, the non-profit founded by Netenyahu's friend https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-03-15/ty-article/netanyahu-breaks-silence-on-disgraced-zaka-founder-i-hope-it-isnt-true
This is the group that has collected the bodies and produces the content of the video produced for the UN. Many of the burned bodies were reportedly not burned when the survivors fled the settlement. There are also articles now about Zaka staging the bodies for fundraising. It's hard not to speculate that the sexual violence is on the same level of disinformation as the beheaded babies and UNRWA employees being Hamas. Since these allegations have been used to continue bombing on innocent civilians, I hope the UN investigator does a whole lot more that look at just what Israel puts in front of her, and is a little skeptical of the claims.
If you are talking about the Zaka produced video given to the UN, I am going to need an independent investigation. And if one woman doing a reaction video is the extent of the investigation, that's going to be pretty weak.
Unfortunately this investigation is not ICJ. It's one woman 'investigating' one aspect. And it looks like the only evidence she will have is what Israel presents to her.
But she is an investigator, not a judge. She should look for contradictory evidence as well. That means chasing down leads and talking to, for example, the survivors who left their friend's body behind and then got it back burned and mutilated. Look at the timeline of those events and see if it makes sense. Talk to the zaka people who found the bodies. Who are they, were they the first responders to site, what did they do before talking the pictures, and were their directives to just collect the bodies, or take photos as well. Remember, these are not police who are supposed to do a chain of evidence. These are untrained volunteers.
No Zaka documentation can be trusted and they are the front lines and first to document. They destroy crime scenes and fabricate lies to raise millions in funding for their corrupt non-profit. It is a shame of an organization and shame on Israel for the lack of accountability, investigation, and transparency.
I fully understand why people would want to end hostilities in Gaza or stand up for Palestinian rights but the denial of the atrocities of October7th just like the denial of the holocaust does not buy you anything. It just looks like you are trying to dehumanize the victims of a tragedy.
I mean it's ridiculous, right? How can anyone be so heartless to question if sexual assault actually happened, or that babies were beheaded? I mean it would be absolutely insane to think someone would make up stories about such inhuman things. Except, Israel did that. And it worked, and every paper condemned Hamas and when there was no actual evidence of beheaded babies, everyone just ignored that and said it didn't matter.
Honestly the truth looks far worse for Netanyahu, as he ignored 3 separate warnings of hamas activity and effectively let them through the border, because the mass loss of life and following war would facilitate his genocide and slow down the investigation on his corruption
Can you supply a trusted source for ‘staging bodies for fundraising’
Honestly it seems from the same school of thought as ‘the holocaust is exaggerated’
This states that they mishandled bodies, ie: two skulls in one body bag. There were also two other reports of employees statements not being corroborated.
This is not what you implied. Your implication was that Oct 7th was staged or incredibly exaggerated to maximise sympathy for Israel. 1200 people died, if there were two lies, not even confirmed by a source on the ground then this is not the slam dunk you think it is.
I’ll tell you what I think, I think you hate Israel and want to find any excuse to not sympathise with them because you don’t. You want to shift all the blame on to Israel.
There are 2 stories- staging for fundraising which is in some mainstream media, and staging the bodies to fake the sexual violence evidence which is being claimed by some survivors in smaller papers. https://en.royanews.tv/news/48956/2024-02-02
The point is that this group is faking evidence and that faked evidence is the foundation of the sexual assault UN investigation.
Yeah those pesky Jews fooled us into believing the holocaust was real. Not falling for this one
Edit: I meant Zionist, I’m not antisemitic. Palestinians are also Semitic
More like the 40 beheaded babies, baby cooked in oven, pregnant woman raped and mutilated, Hamas ambulances, calendar of terror, hospitals of doom complete with Bond villain bunker complex, and other Israeli hasbara greatest hits.
40 babies is the favourite talking point of the anti Israel folks, it wasn't even an Israeli claim. The baby in an oven I believe was debunked by the Israelis. The rest is true I think?
Nope, there was no pregnant woman with the baby cut out, that calendar had names of the week on it, a single tunnel was found on Al shifa grounds that lead away from the compound with no “terrorist HQ” found, a disgusting amount of first responders have been murdered by the IDF not to mention the constant bombing and raids of hospitals. All of these were Israeli claims and even when debunked have been repeated ad nauseum by the pro-genocide ghouls.
Sorry you initially said pregnant woman was raped, what is your claim? Can you link to a source that debunks it?
The calendar had the title of the operation, it was a calendar that the IDF incorrectly claimed it had the names of the people using it, they dont speak Arabic. Not sure that is a smoking gun.
The IDF released footage of hamas using the alshifa hospital on oct 7th and bringing hostages there. The US independently verified it was used by hamas. I dont know what there is to discuss here.
You just want to believe the best of hamas and the worst of Israel. No amount of evidence will make you think differently. The literal CCTV footage of hamas bringing hostages there is not enough.
Kinda one-sided when everyone at the UN knows the rapes of Palestinian children & women, go unreported. Shame on this UN sexual assault commission. Shame, shame, shame.
That's BS. Muslims don't think like that, zionists do.
Palestinians don't report because there's no point. There's no justice for Palestinians, they'll be punished for speaking up. IDF regularly murder children with impunity. Report rape?!? To who?
We’re talking about Palestinian Muslims…..the ones that actually have to live under Jewish apartheid. They’re not like other Muslims, they’re different.
Who are Palestinians supposed to tell? Palestinians have reported IDF for rape and sexual abuse. Any organization that attempts to defend Palestinians, and hold Israel accountable is immediately labeled antisemitic and a terrorist organization. Israel is a fascist regime.
Palestinians are denied human rights, they suffer degrading, humiliating apartheid. Thousands of Palestinians are held in military prisons without charges. IDF shoot Palestinian children for fun and target practice. Palestinian children are killed by IDF in the West Bank every year. There's no justice for murdered and maimed Palestinian children... There's no justice for Palestinians victims of rape or SA only consequences and barbaric punishment.
Jewish pedos flee to Israel, it's basically a safe haven for degenerates
There are a million NGOs that love for this shit, they’re comping at the bit trying to get any sort of content to demonise Israel.
Trust me, there are plenty of people to tell
Or maybe it's because Palestinians suffer from apartheid. American veto allows Israel to terrorize Palestinians with impunity.
Who do Palestinians report sexual violations to?
Are you one of these friends that is in the circle of trust of these sexually abused Palestinians where there is absolutely no evidence for it at all?
This is actually wild, the lengths you will go to demonise Israelis with no proof only hearsay.
This is the exact same time of demonisation Jews received for centuries in Europe, lies and lies. They kill children they rape non Jews.
You have provided no evidence to back up your libels , this is what we can antisemitism
So, only Hamas rapes Jews and Jews don’t rape Palestinians? Sure pal. I don’t mind being called “anti-Semitic”, it’s just a silly religious slur used by people with thin-skin about the cult they’re in. It’s been prostituted to the point of being laughable. 😂😂😂
I asked you for evidence, you couldn’t produce it, meaning it’s a libel.
I outlined my position with logical and rational and you just say I’m in a cult
These kinds of missions to establish the perpetrators of specific atrocities, when we are unable and unwilling to do the same for the large majority of crimes committed in conflicts, always seems a bit absurd. It's not that justice isnt worth pursuing, it's that you will never make a meaningful impact in the world this way.
There are too many war criminals and too few judges. This investigation is security theatre to make people feel they're being watched over, that they're safe, when they are most definitely not safe. As long as a government has a policy of expropriating land from people, it puts its own people in danger. Cruelty begets violence. Violence begets more violence. I have no less sympathy for Israeli victim of this conflicts than I do for conscripted Russians, or Kurdish orphans, or Palestinian grandmothers who have lived long enough to see their entire families perish. The world is absurdly awful. Innocent people are everywhere and they don't deserve any of this.
All over the world, regular people like you and me are having bombs dropped on their heads because of decisions made by policians and billionaires who never suffer the consequences. They quite deliberately foment hate and resentment between people for political and financial gain. My hate, my anger, and my focus in unerringly trained on them.
I dont think you should equate Gazans with us, what this video of them seeing an Israeli hostage in a car:
[https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1754407250771271797?s=20](https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1754407250771271797?s=20)
They are probably the most radicalised group of people in the world, 15 years of Hamas and UNRWA education combined with a blockade that kills all economic opportunity is a recipe for hostilities. Unfortunately Gaza turned into a Jihad hotbed
This has nothing to do with what you outlined above
Edit: Listen to what sam Harris has to say
Some of Sam Harris' arguments are not very compelling. I.e. That Gazans should be unbothered by the settlements in West Bank or that Gaza Strip has been relatively stable since 2005. It's a horrible way for people to live and it's intergenerational trauma that has been passed on to young Hamas extremists today.
What do you think the acts of someone like Yigal Amir does to Palestinians? The idea of peace is repugnant to a good number of Israelis. What does that say about Palestinians and their future?
The idea that Palestinians are more culpable for their circumstances is a pointless exercise. We, including Palestinians calling for genocide of Israelis, keep supporting leaders who directly contribute to circumstances that promote further violence.
I wish the trash who support Hamas was forced to watch the NSFL tape over and over , until they could get it into their thick skulls , what sort of Islamic monstrosities they are supporting.
Woah, I thought this was a different sub, so silly me clicked the link. I'd never heard of /r/worldevents sub before. Is this place like run by an experiment? Wow this place is filled with toxicity! My my.
You guys posted this in world events? Don't you guys know that the type of people who read this sub do not want to read about Israel's side?
They just want to 'show' how 'evil' Israel, and will only look at 'facts' that support their feelings.
You will be hit by the downvote brigade for your troubles...as will I for laughing at their hypocrisy!
r/worldnews has plenty and will ban you for saying anything against the Israeli side. The only reason there is a grouping here is because you can’t get the other info on r/worldnews which is a much larger sub.
I’m for free speech, but I’m happy people get banned for antisemitism or pro Hamas statements. Unfortunately they are all too common place these days.
That said, there is a lot to criticise Israel about and no body should be banned for saying so
That’s not true, I’m against Putins war, but I’m not against Tucker giving him an interview.
I think it’s stupid, but I wouldn’t support it being deleted from twitter and YouTube etc
I don’t have real examples but I’ll make a few up:
Israelis are evil and want to just murder children
Israelis love to murder Palestinian kids
Israelis enjoy killing Palestinians
Israelis want to push everyone that is not Jewish out of the region, they’re Jewish supremacists
Jews control the banks and media in the west, that’s why the media is biased against Palestinians
Jews control congress in the US. They have too much influence
Jews think they’re the chosen ones
Jews are animals
Israel will not be able to eliminate Hamas. In fact, Israel's slaughter in Gaza has strengthened Hamas and has created many more enemies than it had before.
They may not eliminate Hamas, im not sure they want to or expect to. They can set up camp in Gaza and ensure Hamas doesn't govern there, which will suffocate them and limit their effectiveness.
Not to worry though, the extremists and fundamentalists will just join a different organization with the same goals or operate covertly.
Thankfully the governments of the west and the Arab world are standing with Israel and allowing them to achieve this very goal.
I’m glad the ICJ is there to ensure Israel don’t step over any lines too.
Ha!ha! The ICJ ruled that Israel is very probably carrying out a genocide. And of course Israel spits in the faces of the ICJ judges and steps over ALL the lines, i.e., commits every possible war crime there is.
Not that.
I don’t want to spend time on someone who thought that. You’re either very stupid or in a bubble.
Either way it seems you’re not going to change your mind. If you really want to know you can google it but I’m guessing you’re staying in your bubble
"The ICJ found it plausible that Israel’s acts could amount to genocide and issued six provisional measures, ordering Israel to take all measures within its power to prevent genocidal acts, including preventing and punishing incitement to genocide, ensuring aid and services reach Palestinians under siege in Gaza, and preserving evidence of crimes committed in Gaza."
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/gaza-icj-ruling-offers-hope-protection-civilians-enduring-apocalyptic
plausible vs. implausible = different ends of the scale.
But yeah, I acknowledge that I used stronger words than the ICJ did. I predict though that their final ruling will find that Israel is committing genocide. If the ICJ does not come back with this ruling, then the world is lawless.
Ok, where do you live then? Outside of Israel I genuinely can’t think of a place in the world where anyone can actually be so disconnected from reality. I am genuinely interested in how you got to a point where you believe that the Arab governments are siding with Israel. Can you help me understand?
Well are Arab governments breaking ties with Israel? Sanctioning Israel, blocking oil? There are many things they could do. The Arab league met and refused to issue oil sanctions, unlike in the 70s.
It seems to me the Sunni Arab states are so against Iran that they are happy to see any proxy removed, even if that means supporting the Jews.
Saudi have been keen to establish diplomatic ties, even now there is talk about it.
Not many actually support Israel.
True. Not many support Hamas.
Going by the recent UN General Assembly vote:
Most (some three fourths support Palestinians (153 out of 193)
23 Abstain: including UK, Germany
10 support Israel (US, Israel, Austria and a few small Pacific island)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/12/united-nations-general-assembly-vote-ceasefire-israel-gaza-war
Not many actually support Israel.
True. Not many support Hamas.
Going by the recent UN General Assembly vote:
Most (some three fourths support Palestinians (153 out of 193)
23 Abstain: including UK, Germany
10 support Israel (US, Israel, Austria and a few small Pacific island)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/12/united-nations-general-assembly-vote-ceasefire-israel-gaza-war
Voting for a ceasefire is politically easy, the real words said behind closed doors are something entirely different.
We can be reasonsably sure Saudi are telling Israel to finish the job.
The Arab league met and didn’t even try to sanction Israel or their supporters by stopping oil like they did in the 70s
Yeah...I always hear "this is what xyz" said behind closed doors...etc
Unfortunately, no way to verify it ..and like intelligence dossier etc...can be easily vehicles for everyone to project.
It is like the leaks from White House..
So no..we cannot.be reasonably sure. If anything, the reasonable thing to do would.be too not be sure of anything that xyz was said by abc behind closed doors.
Arab league: what they did/didn't is more reliable. They didn't sanction..yes.
Don't know what effect such sanctions would have had...except for maybe UAE.
Stopping oil.like in the 70s is very unlikely...for very different reasons. The world is very different now. The oil markets in particular.
As the sanctions on Russia have shown, it is likely some middle men will benefit more than the producers.
Well UAE could have broken ties along with the rest of them but all abrahma accords countries are holding strong.
Saudi is talking about normalisation right now! during the war!! If that isn't evidence enough, I dont know
>Well UAE could have broken ties along with the rest of them but all abrahma accords countries are holding strong.
Bahrain has recalled it's ambassador?
Saudis have said they will plan on normalizing...but not normalize until Palestinian state is established.
So likely never or until US sweetens the deal for Saudis even more or threatens them.
More likely carrots: Arms, defense treaty, nuclear power etc
As the world cup interviews by Israeli journalist showed, the accords are with the regimes- not with the people.
Doubt the Saudis will sign anything when the TVs show gazan children being pulled out of rubble.
Oh I know the people on the ground still hate Jews, that won’t change. Polls show the truth. But the leaders have moved on from the Palestinians. Only Iran backs them now.
The level of denial in these comments is pathetic. A mental health professional told me that every single person who actively denies and suppresses reports of rape have usually either been a victim of sexual violence or a perpetrator.
I just don't understand why anyone would think a Jihadist *wouldn't* engage in rape. They're jihadists. Raping POWs (surriyya) is something their prophet did.
You know I have seen the polls, I have seen the videos of the streets of Gaza celebrating dead Israelis and spitting on their corpses.
I’m sick of people gaslighting us into saying it wasn’t Palestinians it’s just the few bad apples in Hamas.
This is not true, Oct 7th had overwhelming support.
Having said that, there are about 20% of gazans who according to the polls don’t support it and likely just want to live a good peaceful life
You’re absolutely correct, it’s completely sickening the response of the world and specifically UN women regarding the sexual violence that occurred and how long it took to acknowledge this. In what world would that treatment be acceptable for any other group?
Most of us are not denying that October 7th was horrific for the people involved. What we are saying is that no action, no matter how horrific, can be used to justify genocide. No action can be used to justify what is being done to Gaza right now. The over 27 000 dead are not worth less than the significantly lower number of people hurt or killed on October 7th. And the 2 million people living in Gaza are not worth less than the 200 hostages. I have heard a lot of people call October 7th “our 9/11”. And I always thought it was an extremely fitting comparison. Your government provided weapons to a terrorist organization to destabilize a people you wanted to steal from, then had the very same organization use those weapons to attack you. Then you went insane and started bombing and killing anyone in the area with no regard for human life, killing more innocent people than the terrorist organization ever did. You see, no one goes “9/11 was great actually”. What people say is that the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians that followed in Iraq was a crime against humanity.
>Most of us are not denying that October 7th was horrific for the people involved. You may rethink that after reading the comments on this thread.
No one's disputing that Hamas did awful things Oct. 7th. What's in dispute is the atrocity propaganda, which frankly is baffling because whenever Israel gets exposed in its lies it just minimizes what actually happened. The special envoy should spend a week in Gaza, she'll witness even more things she's never seen before at the hands of the IDF.
when i proved to a woman that the story of the fetus being cut out was fabricated, all she could say was "well, im sorry the attacks on jews weren't brutal enough for you!" its the weaponization of "jews" that pisses me off the most
Actually there are legitimate disputes that hamas did rapes. Hamas operatives were present in israel for 2 hours on a hostage taking mission. The gate was breached and fighting to contain the breach extended for 8 hours. There is no way you will convince me hamas directives included taking a little break for rape. Hamas is being blamed for the boiled over rage of an oppressed and existentialky threatened people. The atrocity bullshit comes into full light when you learn that only one baby was killed that day. Not 40 beheaded babies. No babies in ovens. None of it was true. Why believe them now? Full stop.
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This is what they do. Minimize the stories that make them look bad, maximize the stories that make them look good. At some point you got to ask yourself “are the people trying to minimize rape and murder really the good guys?”.
Questioning the narrative pushed by a genocidal entity ain't really what I would call "minimizing rape and murder" but sure. No one is arguing Hamas didn't do evil things on Oct 7. People are arguing that Israel is exagerrating the crimes while minimizing its own. This way, they can demonize Hamas --> justify the use of inhumane fighting strategies in Gaza that harm everyone but Hamas.
No people are arguing that hamas was justified for rape and murder of innocent civilians in this thread. Just because you don’t read it that way doesn’t mean the rest of us do. You being willfully blind to conversations you don’t like is not everyone else’s problem, it’s yours. Edit: Funny how it’s “asking questions” now. Reminds me of how neo-nazis just “ask questions” about the number of Jewish people killed in the holocaust. I don’t trust these “questions” because the malice behind them is so childishly transparent even a casual observer could notice their true intent.
Is it possible that asking questions does not mean outright doubt? Is it possible that people feel compelled to make sense of an event, so they ask questions. Or do people have to take everything at face value and are not allowed to even ask what time of day something happened? I have a sense of the broader context as to why members of the Jewish community are defensive and can understand that that would make people apprehensive to say the very least. This is not a one sided conflict and viewing the enemy as human does mean outright justification.
Rape definitely did happen but I doubt that it was systematic rape, like using rape as a weapon of war that was commanded by the top hamas guys. That’s in dispute.
"No one's disputing that Hamas did awful things Oct. 7th." "Akshually..."
Awful things such as kidnapping civilians, not atrocity propaganda claimed by the IDF.
Wow "couple hours isnt enough time for rape". Literally the thinnest defence of rapists I've ever read. That statement is evil. Full stop.
Often there are no directives for rape in war. That didn’t stop Nanking from happening though
And My Lai
The atrocities of Nanking happened on territory held by Japan with little concern for reciprocity from the underprepared local Chinese forces there. The Japanese oppressors had impunity & exercised with extreme cruelty. Oct 7 couldn't be more the opposite. Oct 7 was more like a hit & run attack where the Israeli response was forth coming & would be severe. Is it impossible they took a raping spree break during the middle of the tumult? No. Is it probable that happened? Where in 2023 there is no DNA evidence collected, no raw footage available for neutral 3rd party investigators, where the Israeli police are looking for people to collaborate rape claims? I can't say yes, can you? As for the Israelis vs hospital situation I've seen independent investigations go both ways with the ones closer to state aparatuses blaming hamas, info war is crazy indeed
They took the time to behead people? Pretty sure they had time to rape women too. Not saying that’s evidence but they definitely had the ability.
I have never done either so i cant say much about how much effort & time is required for one vs the other, but it is a worthwhile point to consider.
The Israelis were warned a year in advance of every detail of the attack. Where was Mossad? Where was the IDF? How come the Israeli government wasn't on high alert on the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur attack? **The evidence suggests that Netanyahu allowed the attack to happen.** in order to justify the Final Solution - ethnic cleansing of Gaza.
Pretty stupid for Hamas to play right into their hands then? Palestinians sure picked a gullible government huh?
You mean the 50% of Palestinians that weren't eligible to vote back in 2006 when the last election happened? Sure... 'they' picked the government. lol. Meanwhile Netanyahu has repeatedly stated that Hamas is good for killing the Palestinian cause as it divides the Palestinans and makes picking them apart easier. Hamas has everything to gain from this attack. The worldwide narrative is now that Israel is a colonizing force and an 80 year old oppressor + the new generation of kids who lost everything are prime potential recruits. Good job Israel, Hamas couldn't have asked for a better recruiting agency.
Yea they probably should have kicked out hamas when they started seeing their children be groomed as biological weapons for Iran. I mean, I wouldn’t live in a country where my kids are being groomed as child soldiers let alone support it. As for “world opinions”; hamas raped and murdered to further their political goals, and the Palestinians cheered. And here you are, being an apologist for terrorists. Isreal is pretty justified to protect itself from nut jobs like you and hamas. You will find most people outside your bubble think this way. They think you’re a terrorist sympathizer and rape apologist.
The head rabbi of the IDF has openly expressed sentiment that it is permissible for soldiers to rape gentile women during war though :)
I was under the impression there was verified video of women with bloodied crotches coming out at the time. Is this footage not verified or did it not exist in the first place?
there is, but the one i remember seeing, you couldn't be sure how the blood got there, or even if its her own blood... its entirely plausible for sexual violence to have happened, but rock solid proof (evidence that you would view as compelling if it was your friend or relative charged) seems much less certain.
There is. Looked at this stories on this sub. It's susposed to be worldevents but literally only has Palestine stories and a huge chunk have shit sources. This sub was created by hamas sympathizers and anti-semites.
Did you understand my comment? Try reading it again cause I've kinda responded to this.
There's footage of Hamas soldiers dragging women through the street with blood pouring from between their legs. I'm not sure why you think rape is beyond the capability of people who mass slaughtered civilians and support a brand of Islamists law that allows you to rape and enslave enemies, ISIS did the same thing for the same reasons. It's weird that people can't accept what they did. You can be against Israel's actions without living in denial about what Hamas is.
They were doing exactly what the Jewish militias did in 1948. These terrorists knew all about the Deir Yassin massacre -as do you. **Since you are condemning rape and murder, why don't you condemn the Jewish terrorists who committed the Deir Yassin massacre?** *Some of the Palestinian Arab villagers were killed in the course of the battle, while others were massacred by the Jewish militias while trying to flee or surrender. A number of Palestinian Arab prisoners were executed, some after being paraded in West Jerusalem, where they were jeered, spat at, stoned, looted, and eventually murdered. In addition to the killing and widespread looting, there may have been cases of mutilation and rape.*
You could have missed my point more, but it would take a great effort.
It would take great effort for you to condemn the Deir Yassin massacre, apparently. You are unable to condemn an atrocity when it's committed by Israelis. And you don't want anybody to know that the Hamas terrorists were raised on stories of the Deir Yassin massacre. You don't want anybody to remember the Deir Yassin massacre even though nobody in the Middle East has forgotten about it. It doesn't fit your narrative.
Wait, I don't want anyone to know about it? That's funny as it wasn't even the topic of discussion and now you're making wild claims I'm part of some conspiracy to hide an event from nearly 75 years ago? What exactly is this narrative I'm guilty of, since I didn't even talk about this event?
>Since you are condemning rape and murder, why don't you condemn the Jewish terrorists who committed the Deir Yassin massacre?
I can say two things unequivocally, that I condemn rape and murder and that you are a absolute mouth breathing fool barely capable of a conversation. If you're going to talk to people actually read what they say rather than rambling nonsense that had absolutely nothing to do with the context of the discussion.
But you can't condemn the Deir Yassin terrorists, can you?
You do know rape is wrong in general right? No need to deflect from your sides rapes if we all just admit rape is wrong right? It couldn’t possibly be that you’re an apologist for rapist terrorists?
I’ve looked at the website and I didn’t see anything like that- I’m not denying it exists just wondering where you saw it? I think it’s absurd to say no rapes happened but have come up blank when trying to get proof to back this up. I’ve heard friends say that muslims wouldn’t do that and I think that’s possibly the most ridiculous evidence I’ve ever heard. I think what happened was terrible without the rapes. Same about the beheaded babies.
You may play make believe or you can educate yourself and verify. [Evidence points to systematic use of rape and sexual violence by Hamas in 7 October attacks](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/evidence-points-to-systematic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks) [“The growing body of evidence about reported sexual violence is particularly harrowing," two U.N.-appointed independent experts said in a statement on Monday. The statement referred to allegations of sexual torture including rape and gang rape as well as mutilations and gunshots to genital areas.”](https://www.reuters.com/world/un-experts-demand-accountability-sexual-torture-during-hamas-attacks-2024-01-08/)
If these are NY Times articles they have been debunked: https://youtu.be/paDjsRkhc28?si=HrLb6TRbARd9cCRQ
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Because on reddit Hamas is a scrapy underdog and Israel bad
They are all seemingly pro Hamas. So far I noticed these subs all have the same bias world events, world news and international news.
This whole sub is insane. It's called worldevents but every single story is about Palestine. This sub was created by hamas supporters and Nazis to push their agenda. There is literally people on here referencing YouTube and tiktok over real news.
There a few subs similar to this one. I came to the same conclusions. It’s probably time to mute this sub and let these Reddit idiots feed each other nonsense.
They are all seemingly pro Hamas. So far I noticed these subs all have the same bias world events, world news and international news.
How can you say this when hamas themselves filmed these things and posted them live.
Exactly. They didn’t film a rape.
No, just a women with bloody pants. It could be anything, you never know! /s
Exactly.
They didn't film and post themselves raping anyone though did they? Where are you getting that from?
Right, I forgot you need video footage to prove a crime happened. Otherwise it didn't happen.
You just said hamas filmed and posted it, but they didn't did they?
They have the evidence. They were toying with hostages and beheading Thai farm hands. It's not like they were going off alone and raping the woman, they were shooting them while they did it in groups. They are a bunch of horrible animals.
Even families of the supposed rape victims deny they were raped. No, there is no evidence. The organization that was supposed to have collected evidence was also behind the 40 beheaded babies lies. Enough already
That's a bold face lie. Enough already. Testimony of a released hostage. https://www.timesofisrael.com/former-hostage-tells-lawmakers-fellow-captive-was-sexually-abused-by-guard/
That’s the smoking gun? A girl that thought another girl was raped because kidnappers refused to let her give the other woman a hug? That proves there was “systematic rape” or that rape was “weaponised”? Even the New York Times article is having to backtrack on its sensational rape story.
That's a lie. Even the UN is finally saying there are many victims and videos.
Even? What victims? How many? Videos of actual rape? There are non. People are projecting. Does it mean a rape didn’t happen ? No. You can’t prove a negative. But the claim that there was “systemic rape” is so far completely bogus. Just like the beheaded babies lie. And the baby in the oven lie. And the cut embryo from the pregnant woman lie. And the tied children on clothesline lie. The Israeli spokespeople kept on lying every chance they got.
Did you read the article? The UN lady said she saw all those things. It's really bizarre you think a bunch of dumb hamas animals wouldn't rape someone.
lol Hamas said that they did the rapes and murder themselves. It’s your choice to side with terrorists. No matter how you look at it. We, the Israelis, are not needing the permission of anyone to defend ourselves against anyone.
No, Hamas denied the rape and sexual violence allegations, and said they would welcome an investigation by the UN. They also offered that the ICC persecute both them and Israel and said they will accept the ICC judgment against Hamas members, it was Israel who refused an independent investigation by the UN.
Hamas denied this 4 months later, meanwhile at the time they were hauling dead naked women in the streets.
This is funny, they filmed it themselves.
You’re siding with the IDF that lie every chance they get.
Israeli claims of phone records & coerced confessions say that yes, neither is worth anything
Good thing that you are bold about it, makes its easier to drag you through court, convict, sanction, divest and isolate you. Soon enough you'll be the north korea of the middle east.
The special envoy should shadow this nurse for a month then report back : https://youtu.be/gk7iWgCk14U?si=9dhQv-saOtYQxEMb
Yes they should and see just how bad it has gotten because of Hamas. Or let me guess if you entered a hospital in Nazi Germany you’d bemoan what was being done to the Germans and refuse to blame Hitler?
Are you comparing the gas chambers to what the terrorist attacks from Hamas?
Oh so you’re okay with the Nazis before the concentrations camps opened? Yikes
Israel behaves like any fachist state, they assert their version of the truth, and use threats and intimidation against anyone who criticises them. We don't believe a word they say, but we do notice their behaviour against citizens of other countries. Policing freedom of speech in foreign countries is an act of aggression and hostility. For me, personally, there state of Israel has limited my freedom of speech more than any Muslim country ever did.
oh my good friend, there are a lot of people disputing hamas did awful things. A lot of people.
You missed the entire point of the comment he made
Was that point that he brushed off the barbaric attack of Jews and moved on without a care. Then retaliation came and he's up in arms because of what Jews are doing?
Yes, LA times being one of them When Israel forbids medical examiners to speak to the press, and refuses to provide proof of rape etc. Then yes, people will have doubts.
That's nothing but HAMAS apologism.
She wont witness any rapes of live burning of people, tho.
“No one’s disputing that Hamas did awful things on Oct. 7” What Most of the Palestinians on the internet are claiming that the majority of civilian casualties on October 7 was from the Hannibal directive and Israel bombed the music festival. Meanwhile Hamas only killed soldiers and videos of militants killing civilians is out of context Denialism of Oct 7 is reported in the news: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-07/ty-article/.premium/denial-of-hamas-october-7-massacre-is-gaining-pace-online/0000018b-aa45-d5aa-a19f-afffabf10000 The PA even released (later retracted) an official statement blaming Israeli “attack helicopters” for October 7
Seriously. This same source claims that hamas is using medical supplies to make rockets. (Because apparently concentrated hydrogen peroxide is explosive so the 3% solution used by hospitals must be going into weapons) If a news source is going to fabricate stories that are so immediately recognizable as fairy tale as explosive bottles of peroxide, imagine what other bs they will make up.
this is what bothers me - I’m now rehashing through a lens of what the hell has been fed to me in the past that I have just accepted on face value.
So just to be clear you are claiming this is made up?
Im saying it's untrustworthy propaganda. And yes will have lies in it.
[Tiny, cheap, deadly: hydrogen peroxide bombs](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna32976055https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna32976055)
Did you read the article? I'm not sure what your point is.
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Hamas was the government of Gaza for almost 20 years. Gaza had several universities where you could get degrees in chemistry and engineering. You don't think they recruited chemists?
You can concentrate peroxide by simply heating it on a stove to just under 100°C. Because hydrogen peroxide boils at 150°C, you're simply boiling off the water and increasing the concentration of peroxide. Hamas are also not your average people, they have equipment to make weapons and are trained to make them.
Gaza University had literal biochemical degrees you could get masters in. Hamas was trained by Iran. I mean people keep treating Hamas like it wasn't the government of a 2 million person country.
Gaza isn't a country. It's an occupied territory.
Seeing how none of these atrocities were noticed when press toured the settlements the first week, it is concerning the extent of atrocities Israel reported 2 weeks later. What is more concerning is the conduct of Zaka, the non-profit founded by Netenyahu's friend https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-03-15/ty-article/netanyahu-breaks-silence-on-disgraced-zaka-founder-i-hope-it-isnt-true This is the group that has collected the bodies and produces the content of the video produced for the UN. Many of the burned bodies were reportedly not burned when the survivors fled the settlement. There are also articles now about Zaka staging the bodies for fundraising. It's hard not to speculate that the sexual violence is on the same level of disinformation as the beheaded babies and UNRWA employees being Hamas. Since these allegations have been used to continue bombing on innocent civilians, I hope the UN investigator does a whole lot more that look at just what Israel puts in front of her, and is a little skeptical of the claims.
It’s pretty well documented at this point. Arguing against it is just chasing misinformation
If you are talking about the Zaka produced video given to the UN, I am going to need an independent investigation. And if one woman doing a reaction video is the extent of the investigation, that's going to be pretty weak.
The term you're looking for is weak facts. international court : burden proof is on Israel.
Unfortunately this investigation is not ICJ. It's one woman 'investigating' one aspect. And it looks like the only evidence she will have is what Israel presents to her.
If Israel has the burden of proof, then yes, it makes sense she will see primarily Israeli evidence.
But she is an investigator, not a judge. She should look for contradictory evidence as well. That means chasing down leads and talking to, for example, the survivors who left their friend's body behind and then got it back burned and mutilated. Look at the timeline of those events and see if it makes sense. Talk to the zaka people who found the bodies. Who are they, were they the first responders to site, what did they do before talking the pictures, and were their directives to just collect the bodies, or take photos as well. Remember, these are not police who are supposed to do a chain of evidence. These are untrained volunteers.
No Zaka documentation can be trusted and they are the front lines and first to document. They destroy crime scenes and fabricate lies to raise millions in funding for their corrupt non-profit. It is a shame of an organization and shame on Israel for the lack of accountability, investigation, and transparency.
I fully understand why people would want to end hostilities in Gaza or stand up for Palestinian rights but the denial of the atrocities of October7th just like the denial of the holocaust does not buy you anything. It just looks like you are trying to dehumanize the victims of a tragedy.
the new york times had to retract a whole story about the rapes when women who were mentioned in it came forward and said they were not raped.
I mean it's ridiculous, right? How can anyone be so heartless to question if sexual assault actually happened, or that babies were beheaded? I mean it would be absolutely insane to think someone would make up stories about such inhuman things. Except, Israel did that. And it worked, and every paper condemned Hamas and when there was no actual evidence of beheaded babies, everyone just ignored that and said it didn't matter.
That was rhetorical. I didn’t expect anything but denial of sexual violence from you.
Seeing as how my initial comment is that I believe Zaka faked the evidence, I am surprised you needed my second confirmation.
Honestly the truth looks far worse for Netanyahu, as he ignored 3 separate warnings of hamas activity and effectively let them through the border, because the mass loss of life and following war would facilitate his genocide and slow down the investigation on his corruption
Can you supply a trusted source for ‘staging bodies for fundraising’ Honestly it seems from the same school of thought as ‘the holocaust is exaggerated’
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israeli-organization-accused-of-blatant-october-7-disinformation-and-mishandling-human-remains/ar-BB1hGwnK
This states that they mishandled bodies, ie: two skulls in one body bag. There were also two other reports of employees statements not being corroborated. This is not what you implied. Your implication was that Oct 7th was staged or incredibly exaggerated to maximise sympathy for Israel. 1200 people died, if there were two lies, not even confirmed by a source on the ground then this is not the slam dunk you think it is. I’ll tell you what I think, I think you hate Israel and want to find any excuse to not sympathise with them because you don’t. You want to shift all the blame on to Israel.
There are 2 stories- staging for fundraising which is in some mainstream media, and staging the bodies to fake the sexual violence evidence which is being claimed by some survivors in smaller papers. https://en.royanews.tv/news/48956/2024-02-02 The point is that this group is faking evidence and that faked evidence is the foundation of the sexual assault UN investigation.
Nah not falling for this again
Yeah those pesky Jews fooled us into believing the holocaust was real. Not falling for this one Edit: I meant Zionist, I’m not antisemitic. Palestinians are also Semitic
More like the 40 beheaded babies, baby cooked in oven, pregnant woman raped and mutilated, Hamas ambulances, calendar of terror, hospitals of doom complete with Bond villain bunker complex, and other Israeli hasbara greatest hits.
40 babies is the favourite talking point of the anti Israel folks, it wasn't even an Israeli claim. The baby in an oven I believe was debunked by the Israelis. The rest is true I think?
Nope, there was no pregnant woman with the baby cut out, that calendar had names of the week on it, a single tunnel was found on Al shifa grounds that lead away from the compound with no “terrorist HQ” found, a disgusting amount of first responders have been murdered by the IDF not to mention the constant bombing and raids of hospitals. All of these were Israeli claims and even when debunked have been repeated ad nauseum by the pro-genocide ghouls.
Sorry you initially said pregnant woman was raped, what is your claim? Can you link to a source that debunks it? The calendar had the title of the operation, it was a calendar that the IDF incorrectly claimed it had the names of the people using it, they dont speak Arabic. Not sure that is a smoking gun. The IDF released footage of hamas using the alshifa hospital on oct 7th and bringing hostages there. The US independently verified it was used by hamas. I dont know what there is to discuss here. You just want to believe the best of hamas and the worst of Israel. No amount of evidence will make you think differently. The literal CCTV footage of hamas bringing hostages there is not enough.
Busy sealion
Kinda one-sided when everyone at the UN knows the rapes of Palestinian children & women, go unreported. Shame on this UN sexual assault commission. Shame, shame, shame.
If they go unreported, how do you know about them?
It’s a pride/modesty thing. Publicly admitting a Jew even touched them, is mentally worse than the physical rape.
That's BS. Muslims don't think like that, zionists do. Palestinians don't report because there's no point. There's no justice for Palestinians, they'll be punished for speaking up. IDF regularly murder children with impunity. Report rape?!? To who?
We’re talking about Palestinian Muslims…..the ones that actually have to live under Jewish apartheid. They’re not like other Muslims, they’re different.
So how do you know it happened?
Who are Palestinians supposed to tell? Palestinians have reported IDF for rape and sexual abuse. Any organization that attempts to defend Palestinians, and hold Israel accountable is immediately labeled antisemitic and a terrorist organization. Israel is a fascist regime. Palestinians are denied human rights, they suffer degrading, humiliating apartheid. Thousands of Palestinians are held in military prisons without charges. IDF shoot Palestinian children for fun and target practice. Palestinian children are killed by IDF in the West Bank every year. There's no justice for murdered and maimed Palestinian children... There's no justice for Palestinians victims of rape or SA only consequences and barbaric punishment. Jewish pedos flee to Israel, it's basically a safe haven for degenerates
There are a million NGOs that love for this shit, they’re comping at the bit trying to get any sort of content to demonise Israel. Trust me, there are plenty of people to tell
They tell someone they trust, usually a relative and it’s never spoken of again. If it can be avenged, it will be.
Or maybe it's because Palestinians suffer from apartheid. American veto allows Israel to terrorize Palestinians with impunity. Who do Palestinians report sexual violations to?
Exactly. If they report it, they’re called liars and that’s the end of it.
Are you one of these friends that is in the circle of trust of these sexually abused Palestinians where there is absolutely no evidence for it at all? This is actually wild, the lengths you will go to demonise Israelis with no proof only hearsay. This is the exact same time of demonisation Jews received for centuries in Europe, lies and lies. They kill children they rape non Jews. You have provided no evidence to back up your libels , this is what we can antisemitism
So, only Hamas rapes Jews and Jews don’t rape Palestinians? Sure pal. I don’t mind being called “anti-Semitic”, it’s just a silly religious slur used by people with thin-skin about the cult they’re in. It’s been prostituted to the point of being laughable. 😂😂😂
I asked you for evidence, you couldn’t produce it, meaning it’s a libel. I outlined my position with logical and rational and you just say I’m in a cult
Live in your denial, doesn’t bother me a bit.
they are reported. you just dont hear about them in western media cause israel can do no wrong
These kinds of missions to establish the perpetrators of specific atrocities, when we are unable and unwilling to do the same for the large majority of crimes committed in conflicts, always seems a bit absurd. It's not that justice isnt worth pursuing, it's that you will never make a meaningful impact in the world this way. There are too many war criminals and too few judges. This investigation is security theatre to make people feel they're being watched over, that they're safe, when they are most definitely not safe. As long as a government has a policy of expropriating land from people, it puts its own people in danger. Cruelty begets violence. Violence begets more violence. I have no less sympathy for Israeli victim of this conflicts than I do for conscripted Russians, or Kurdish orphans, or Palestinian grandmothers who have lived long enough to see their entire families perish. The world is absurdly awful. Innocent people are everywhere and they don't deserve any of this. All over the world, regular people like you and me are having bombs dropped on their heads because of decisions made by policians and billionaires who never suffer the consequences. They quite deliberately foment hate and resentment between people for political and financial gain. My hate, my anger, and my focus in unerringly trained on them.
I dont think you should equate Gazans with us, what this video of them seeing an Israeli hostage in a car: [https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1754407250771271797?s=20](https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1754407250771271797?s=20) They are probably the most radicalised group of people in the world, 15 years of Hamas and UNRWA education combined with a blockade that kills all economic opportunity is a recipe for hostilities. Unfortunately Gaza turned into a Jihad hotbed This has nothing to do with what you outlined above Edit: Listen to what sam Harris has to say
Some of Sam Harris' arguments are not very compelling. I.e. That Gazans should be unbothered by the settlements in West Bank or that Gaza Strip has been relatively stable since 2005. It's a horrible way for people to live and it's intergenerational trauma that has been passed on to young Hamas extremists today. What do you think the acts of someone like Yigal Amir does to Palestinians? The idea of peace is repugnant to a good number of Israelis. What does that say about Palestinians and their future? The idea that Palestinians are more culpable for their circumstances is a pointless exercise. We, including Palestinians calling for genocide of Israelis, keep supporting leaders who directly contribute to circumstances that promote further violence.
‘Probably the most radicalised group of people’ I thought you were talking about the genocidal Israel population.
The video in the twitter link, that would never happen in Israel
Ok zionist propaganda
We would need to see evidence NOT from the IDF or Israeli government to prove this is true.
I wish the trash who support Hamas was forced to watch the NSFL tape over and over , until they could get it into their thick skulls , what sort of Islamic monstrosities they are supporting.
Woah, I thought this was a different sub, so silly me clicked the link. I'd never heard of /r/worldevents sub before. Is this place like run by an experiment? Wow this place is filled with toxicity! My my.
People here seem to think Israelis are evil and Hamas is legitimate resistance
You guys posted this in world events? Don't you guys know that the type of people who read this sub do not want to read about Israel's side? They just want to 'show' how 'evil' Israel, and will only look at 'facts' that support their feelings. You will be hit by the downvote brigade for your troubles...as will I for laughing at their hypocrisy!
Sorry, I should take this to r/ Israel and let the facts stay in a bubble
r/worldnews has plenty and will ban you for saying anything against the Israeli side. The only reason there is a grouping here is because you can’t get the other info on r/worldnews which is a much larger sub.
I’m for free speech, but I’m happy people get banned for antisemitism or pro Hamas statements. Unfortunately they are all too common place these days. That said, there is a lot to criticise Israel about and no body should be banned for saying so
You’re not for free speech, stop pretending like you are
I am, I’m against hate speech though.
You’re just against speech you don’t agree with
That’s not true, I’m against Putins war, but I’m not against Tucker giving him an interview. I think it’s stupid, but I wouldn’t support it being deleted from twitter and YouTube etc
Give me an example of something that you would consider hate speech that you see on this sub that is left up.
I don’t have real examples but I’ll make a few up: Israelis are evil and want to just murder children Israelis love to murder Palestinian kids Israelis enjoy killing Palestinians Israelis want to push everyone that is not Jewish out of the region, they’re Jewish supremacists Jews control the banks and media in the west, that’s why the media is biased against Palestinians Jews control congress in the US. They have too much influence Jews think they’re the chosen ones Jews are animals
That’s why I spend so much time here. Force them to see their own hypocrisy
Hamas must and will be totally annihilated.
Israel will not be able to eliminate Hamas. In fact, Israel's slaughter in Gaza has strengthened Hamas and has created many more enemies than it had before.
That's just wrong
Hamas is toast
They may not eliminate Hamas, im not sure they want to or expect to. They can set up camp in Gaza and ensure Hamas doesn't govern there, which will suffocate them and limit their effectiveness. Not to worry though, the extremists and fundamentalists will just join a different organization with the same goals or operate covertly.
Israeli officials have explicitly said they want to eliminate Hamas. Maybe they don't expect to.
I took the comment to mean the Gazan government portion, but I may have misinterpreted it.
Thankfully the governments of the west and the Arab world are standing with Israel and allowing them to achieve this very goal. I’m glad the ICJ is there to ensure Israel don’t step over any lines too.
Ha!ha! The ICJ ruled that Israel is very probably carrying out a genocide. And of course Israel spits in the faces of the ICJ judges and steps over ALL the lines, i.e., commits every possible war crime there is.
The ICJ did not rule that Israel is 'very probably' carrying out genocide. Jesus christ.
They said "plausible"
Yeah, different ends of the scale. Very probably is a completely different meaning. Do you realise that?
You sound unhinged. I quoted what the US judge /Chairperson said.
I am sorry but are we not in a conversation where someone claimed the ICJ ruled that genocide was 'very probably'? Am I still in that conversation?
You do realize that I used the exact word that the chairperson did. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Yes so you agree the person who said ‘very probably’ is incorrect?
Okay then, what was the ruling?
Not that. I don’t want to spend time on someone who thought that. You’re either very stupid or in a bubble. Either way it seems you’re not going to change your mind. If you really want to know you can google it but I’m guessing you’re staying in your bubble
"The ICJ found it plausible that Israel’s acts could amount to genocide and issued six provisional measures, ordering Israel to take all measures within its power to prevent genocidal acts, including preventing and punishing incitement to genocide, ensuring aid and services reach Palestinians under siege in Gaza, and preserving evidence of crimes committed in Gaza." https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/gaza-icj-ruling-offers-hope-protection-civilians-enduring-apocalyptic
Yes, do you acknowledge the vast difference between plausible and very probable? They’re different ends of the scale.
plausible vs. implausible = different ends of the scale. But yeah, I acknowledge that I used stronger words than the ICJ did. I predict though that their final ruling will find that Israel is committing genocide. If the ICJ does not come back with this ruling, then the world is lawless.
Ok and if they rule that it isn’t a genocide, will you admit you were wrong? Or that the Jews own the judges?
Wow! Just wow! You are so disconnected from reality it’s not even funny! Genuine question, do you live in Israel?
No
Ok, where do you live then? Outside of Israel I genuinely can’t think of a place in the world where anyone can actually be so disconnected from reality. I am genuinely interested in how you got to a point where you believe that the Arab governments are siding with Israel. Can you help me understand?
Well are Arab governments breaking ties with Israel? Sanctioning Israel, blocking oil? There are many things they could do. The Arab league met and refused to issue oil sanctions, unlike in the 70s. It seems to me the Sunni Arab states are so against Iran that they are happy to see any proxy removed, even if that means supporting the Jews. Saudi have been keen to establish diplomatic ties, even now there is talk about it.
Countries in the east as well. A lot of Pacific Islanders support Israel
Not many actually support Israel. True. Not many support Hamas. Going by the recent UN General Assembly vote: Most (some three fourths support Palestinians (153 out of 193) 23 Abstain: including UK, Germany 10 support Israel (US, Israel, Austria and a few small Pacific island) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/12/united-nations-general-assembly-vote-ceasefire-israel-gaza-war
A vote for ceasefire isn’t support for Palestine
Yet...Israel voted against it.
That’s true, very few actually support Hamas, just Iran and their cronies
Not many actually support Israel. True. Not many support Hamas. Going by the recent UN General Assembly vote: Most (some three fourths support Palestinians (153 out of 193) 23 Abstain: including UK, Germany 10 support Israel (US, Israel, Austria and a few small Pacific island) https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/12/united-nations-general-assembly-vote-ceasefire-israel-gaza-war
Voting for a ceasefire is politically easy, the real words said behind closed doors are something entirely different. We can be reasonsably sure Saudi are telling Israel to finish the job. The Arab league met and didn’t even try to sanction Israel or their supporters by stopping oil like they did in the 70s
Yeah...I always hear "this is what xyz" said behind closed doors...etc Unfortunately, no way to verify it ..and like intelligence dossier etc...can be easily vehicles for everyone to project. It is like the leaks from White House.. So no..we cannot.be reasonably sure. If anything, the reasonable thing to do would.be too not be sure of anything that xyz was said by abc behind closed doors. Arab league: what they did/didn't is more reliable. They didn't sanction..yes. Don't know what effect such sanctions would have had...except for maybe UAE. Stopping oil.like in the 70s is very unlikely...for very different reasons. The world is very different now. The oil markets in particular. As the sanctions on Russia have shown, it is likely some middle men will benefit more than the producers.
Well UAE could have broken ties along with the rest of them but all abrahma accords countries are holding strong. Saudi is talking about normalisation right now! during the war!! If that isn't evidence enough, I dont know
>Well UAE could have broken ties along with the rest of them but all abrahma accords countries are holding strong. Bahrain has recalled it's ambassador? Saudis have said they will plan on normalizing...but not normalize until Palestinian state is established. So likely never or until US sweetens the deal for Saudis even more or threatens them. More likely carrots: Arms, defense treaty, nuclear power etc As the world cup interviews by Israeli journalist showed, the accords are with the regimes- not with the people. Doubt the Saudis will sign anything when the TVs show gazan children being pulled out of rubble.
Oh I know the people on the ground still hate Jews, that won’t change. Polls show the truth. But the leaders have moved on from the Palestinians. Only Iran backs them now.
Not even the whole of Iran. Just the Islamic Republic and its cronies. The amount of Iranian people voicing support for Israel has been great.
Absolutely. Thanks for posting this.
Well that’s not going to happen so where does that leave us.
Better late than never. Now what ya gonna do, worldevents? Even your precious Gaza loving UN are acknowledging the barbarity.
The level of denial in these comments is pathetic. A mental health professional told me that every single person who actively denies and suppresses reports of rape have usually either been a victim of sexual violence or a perpetrator.
I just don't understand why anyone would think a Jihadist *wouldn't* engage in rape. They're jihadists. Raping POWs (surriyya) is something their prophet did.
I think in this case they just hate Israel, Jews or both
It’s awful what the Palestinians did and there are people still defending them
You know I have seen the polls, I have seen the videos of the streets of Gaza celebrating dead Israelis and spitting on their corpses. I’m sick of people gaslighting us into saying it wasn’t Palestinians it’s just the few bad apples in Hamas. This is not true, Oct 7th had overwhelming support. Having said that, there are about 20% of gazans who according to the polls don’t support it and likely just want to live a good peaceful life
You’re right
You’re absolutely correct, it’s completely sickening the response of the world and specifically UN women regarding the sexual violence that occurred and how long it took to acknowledge this. In what world would that treatment be acceptable for any other group?