>“This is the movement that will signal, finally, the collective victory of humanity, of good over evil,” Hilary Beckles, chair of the reparations commission of the Caribbean Community political and economic union, or Caricom, said at the U.N. General Assembly.
Cool, it would be good to finally get *that* taken care of.
Complete delusion. The West has been funneling massive amounts of cash to Africa and the Caribbean for generations now, most of it ineffectual, some of it harmful -- governments dependent on foreign-aid windfalls tend to develop a particularly vicious version of the resource curse, as they realize they can monetize the suffering of their people. Setting aside the question of whether it's reasonable for people who never enslaved anyone to make "reparations" to people who were never enslaved, it's not going to work.
I agree, but that argument seems to have lost its moral force, as educated Westerners increasingly consider humanity as a collection of opposed ethnic groups, of which individuals are mere insignificant representatives -- an ideology strangely hard to distinguish from far-right ethnonationalism.
I love how you speak of delusion, then act as if the West has been trying to help the third world rather than destroy and destabilize for the the past 200 years
Why focus only on Africa? Antonio Guterres is Portuguese and should know his history. Portugal and Spain genocided the indigenous population of half the planet (the Caribbean, Central and South America), and then enslaved tens of millions of survivors. They also brought in black slaves from Africa. If Reparations are ever made they should address both African and Indigenous populations, and Portugal and Spain must be forced to cover their share.
There are currently an [estimated 50 million people enslaved in the world right now](https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/findings/regional-findings/overview/), predominately in the Middle East and Africa. In the interest of fairness, we should start with reparations there and work our way back.
“We” may have authority over trade that benefits these places. “We” are probably benefiting from the enslavement of those ~50 million people and have agency to stop benefiting from it.
>Antonio Guterres is Portuguese and should know his history.
Doubtful, he some time ago was talking about Portugal's history in Angola and said that Njinga was anti-slavery lol. She monopolized the slave tributes of the somba and consolidated the trade routes... Selling them to the dutch and then to the Portuguese.
>Portugal and Spain genocided the indigenous population of half the planet (the Caribbean, Central and South America), and then enslaved tens of millions of survivors.
Don't know about Spain's record, but for Portugal arriving in Brazil in 1500 there was, according to studies, some 4 million people. Some 60% died from diseases (we know they had a trade network between them which contributed for the spread of disease, and the late push for mass colonization in 1530's gave them some time to gain immunity) those that survived, if determined to be a "indio bravo" either would die in conflict or would be enslaved.
>and Portugal and Spain must be forced to cover their share.
Yeah... Good luck with that bcz no one will pay reparations whatsoever.
> vulnerable populations of the Americas
If calling empires of millions of people vulnerable population, which people isn't vulnerable ?
So we pursue as well the native amerindians for syphilis? And the Chinese for the poor handling of the covid pandemic?
And the African due to Aids?
That would be ridiculous
Well there are not any single source saying Spanish or Portuguese brought illness on purpose. At least not that I know. Maybe you have one.
For example, I think in Mexico and in Peru, influenza arrived before the Europeans.
You can legitimately say that the conquistadors did a genocide, I would be 100% with you on that. But the only example I know about a on purpose spread of lethal disease is the US spreading smallpox to native Amerindians.
For the Covid, China did probably not plan conquer anything with it (except if it escaped from a lab), but they didn't disclose information early on and there is still no real inquiry about the responsibilities in this case.
Why would they be responsible of the illness they spread unknowingly? In my country, no one was prosecuted for bringing Covid to hospitals or old people houses. Why would it be different then?
And for the rest, there are indeed responsabilities in the genocidal acts which were committed by the conquistadors. But was it their mission? Were they asked to conquer the new world? Not always actually.
Isabel la Católica, queen of Spain when Colombus discovered America was against genocide of the natives and slavery. Her goal, as a very pious woman was to convert the natives to Christianism (which is not a good thing but maybe better than slavery). Colombus nonetheless mistreated natives and started slavery on the American continents.
Hernan Cortes, who conquered Mexico, did it while being on the run. He was absolutely not allowed to leave Cuba, and even less to conquer Mexico. A Spanish/Cuban expedition actually tried to capture Cortes to judge him before he conquered Mexico but Cortes managed to avoid it. Cortes most important help in the conquest came from native woman (a former slave from some native tribe, who translated everything and probably was the woman with the biggest influence in the 1600s) and from tribes who hated the Aztecs (they were regularly attacked in the flower wars to bring prisoners which had to be sacrificed to get the sympathy of the gods)
This does not mean that genocides nor colonization were right, nor that former Spain or Portugal have no responsability in it. But history is way more complex than what you implied.
There’s not a single culture now or ever that has been immune to slavery. If it makes some people that crazy let’s have everyone in the world line up and hand a $5 to each person on the left.
First Nation people definitely took white slaves both European and much later American. Their children and grandchildren sometimes became significant figures in history.
I mean I get it, you're just trolling. But these are important historical details so in that sense I thank you for your posts. Other folks may read the responses and become curious enough to go learn actual past events.
Whom do you think the Gaels and Vikings were enslaving? Koreans?
American Indians enslaving whites was fairly common during the Indian Wars, though historically most of their slaves were, of course, other Indians. (The Americas had at least the cultural diversity of Europe in the Middle Ages, so referring to them as a collective demonym is silly, even if it is common modern practice.)
[Example of Africans selling European slaves in 'recent' history](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade)
Ironically this was the first war the USA fought outside the Americas, intervening in the Arab world against (certain kinds) of slavery
LOL Wowww, you really opened my eyes!!!! Time for Africans to start paying reparations to Europeans!!!!!! The Trans-Atlantic slave trade was actually about white Europeans being exported for slavery in Africa!!! Mind blown. Wowwwza!!
This person is weirdly aggressive of the information they asked for being given to them. None of the things people are posting are new information. We learned about these things in history class..
I know you probably looking for something else but in the 17th century the Moorish states (modern day Morroco, Tunisa and Algeria) raided the coast of Britain to get slaves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary\_slave\_trade#:\~:text=In%20the%201620s%20and%201640s,as%20captives%20by%20the%20corsairs.
Right before they became French colonies? LOL This is one of those things like.....I knew someone who wasn't wearing a seatbelt and survived a car accident. lol
You know that part of the reason why French attacked the North of Africa was due to raiding parties from North african ships on the northern coast of the Mediterranean sea?
You have plenty of stories about them, like in 1623 in the south of France with 700 Turks (who were in control of Algeria) sacked the city and took slaves.
Last occurence I read about in a 3 minutes Google seach was in 1814 by Tunisian raiders.
Who said that?
It is not Africa's fault if there is slavery in the world, or if they were brutally colonized...
European did genocides, the slave trade was a crime against humanity.
But it is not as simple as European colonialism was evil (true) and solely replaced perfect slave free societies (that is false). Slavery was existing in Africa before the colonization. And sadly, even today, after colonization, there is still currently 600k slaves in Africa.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_contemporary_Africa.
Once again, this does not mean at all that colonization was a good thing, quite the contrary.
EDIT: cleaned up some embarassing typos
---
As someone else already pointed out to you, read up on indentured servants. They started as either feudal slaves or debtor prisons. They had no freedom, for centuries no protections, their contracts were sold and families separated, raped and murdered, they were bred like cattle and their children enslaved until the contracts were paid off.
That's history. Slavery isn't gone today. Slavery also exists in every culture as I type this.
EDIT: adding that forced slave labor is still legal in the US in private and public prisons.
---
Indentured servitude was legal in the US until 1865, and across the Americas until its abolition in 1917.
I repeat: indentured servitude and slavery are vastly different things. Indentured servants attained their freedom once they completed their contract. They were housed, clothed and fed. Enslaved people were permanently denied their freedom unless they could obtain the means to purchase themselves or successfully escape. Debt bondage and slavery are not the same thing. You should know better
Sicily has been conquered every which way and twice on Sunday. We'd like all the reparations please; Greek, Roman, Carthigian, Moorish, Spanish, French, I'm sure I'm missing a few
How deep down this rabbit hole is reasonable? Slavery has been around for millennium. Do they just intend to draw a line in the sand in the 1500s and say anything before that isn’t worthy of reparations?
That raises another good point: slavery still exists. There’s millions of modern day slaves. Shouldn’t the focus be on ending the practice worldwide before discussing reparations? I’m willing to bet the current victims of slavery wouldn’t see a dime of any reparations.
Start with the oldest surviving claims, first. Reparations from Egypt for enslaving the Israelites. 😁
Once that's done, then move onto the next oldest claim.
the shame i have of this guy i Hope he never comes back to Portugal. crappy Prime minister crappy politician he was chosen for the UN because he is a Zero .
Hey, there is this group of people who have been taken as slaves recently. Is this something for guttertrash to work on changing or should each group be examined for context?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13234071/Israeli-familys-agony-mark-Jewish-festival-without-19-year-old-daughter-taken-hostage-Hamas-kept-domestic-slave-terror-group-Gaza.html
So, what is the statute of limitations on slavery, vis-a-vis reparations?
Because slavery didn't begin in the 17th Century, nor did it end in the 19th Century.
>“This is the movement that will signal, finally, the collective victory of humanity, of good over evil,” Hilary Beckles, chair of the reparations commission of the Caribbean Community political and economic union, or Caricom, said at the U.N. General Assembly. Cool, it would be good to finally get *that* taken care of. Complete delusion. The West has been funneling massive amounts of cash to Africa and the Caribbean for generations now, most of it ineffectual, some of it harmful -- governments dependent on foreign-aid windfalls tend to develop a particularly vicious version of the resource curse, as they realize they can monetize the suffering of their people. Setting aside the question of whether it's reasonable for people who never enslaved anyone to make "reparations" to people who were never enslaved, it's not going to work.
>whether it's reasonable for people who never enslaved anyone to make "reparations" to people who were never enslaved It isn't, and won't ever be.
I agree, but that argument seems to have lost its moral force, as educated Westerners increasingly consider humanity as a collection of opposed ethnic groups, of which individuals are mere insignificant representatives -- an ideology strangely hard to distinguish from far-right ethnonationalism.
>an ideology strangely hard to distinguish from far-right ethnonationalism. They might not be identical but they certainly rhyme.
Lol, wtf does that quote even mean. What a fuckin clown show the UN is these days.
Most of it grabbed by people that are actively making Africa worse
I love how you speak of delusion, then act as if the West has been trying to help the third world rather than destroy and destabilize for the the past 200 years
Why focus only on Africa? Antonio Guterres is Portuguese and should know his history. Portugal and Spain genocided the indigenous population of half the planet (the Caribbean, Central and South America), and then enslaved tens of millions of survivors. They also brought in black slaves from Africa. If Reparations are ever made they should address both African and Indigenous populations, and Portugal and Spain must be forced to cover their share.
There are currently an [estimated 50 million people enslaved in the world right now](https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/findings/regional-findings/overview/), predominately in the Middle East and Africa. In the interest of fairness, we should start with reparations there and work our way back.
Africa still has millions of slaves to this day...so they gonna give reparations to themselves?
Maybe the slaves and the slabers aren't the same person, from the same ethnic groups.
we should start with freeing slaves then, not reparations.
Actually doing something is hard. Doing lip service about something and then doing nothing about it is way easier
[удалено]
“We” may have authority over trade that benefits these places. “We” are probably benefiting from the enslavement of those ~50 million people and have agency to stop benefiting from it.
>Antonio Guterres is Portuguese and should know his history. Doubtful, he some time ago was talking about Portugal's history in Angola and said that Njinga was anti-slavery lol. She monopolized the slave tributes of the somba and consolidated the trade routes... Selling them to the dutch and then to the Portuguese. >Portugal and Spain genocided the indigenous population of half the planet (the Caribbean, Central and South America), and then enslaved tens of millions of survivors. Don't know about Spain's record, but for Portugal arriving in Brazil in 1500 there was, according to studies, some 4 million people. Some 60% died from diseases (we know they had a trade network between them which contributed for the spread of disease, and the late push for mass colonization in 1530's gave them some time to gain immunity) those that survived, if determined to be a "indio bravo" either would die in conflict or would be enslaved. >and Portugal and Spain must be forced to cover their share. Yeah... Good luck with that bcz no one will pay reparations whatsoever.
[удалено]
> vulnerable populations of the Americas If calling empires of millions of people vulnerable population, which people isn't vulnerable ? So we pursue as well the native amerindians for syphilis? And the Chinese for the poor handling of the covid pandemic? And the African due to Aids? That would be ridiculous
[удалено]
Well there are not any single source saying Spanish or Portuguese brought illness on purpose. At least not that I know. Maybe you have one. For example, I think in Mexico and in Peru, influenza arrived before the Europeans. You can legitimately say that the conquistadors did a genocide, I would be 100% with you on that. But the only example I know about a on purpose spread of lethal disease is the US spreading smallpox to native Amerindians. For the Covid, China did probably not plan conquer anything with it (except if it escaped from a lab), but they didn't disclose information early on and there is still no real inquiry about the responsibilities in this case.
[удалено]
Why would they be responsible of the illness they spread unknowingly? In my country, no one was prosecuted for bringing Covid to hospitals or old people houses. Why would it be different then? And for the rest, there are indeed responsabilities in the genocidal acts which were committed by the conquistadors. But was it their mission? Were they asked to conquer the new world? Not always actually. Isabel la Católica, queen of Spain when Colombus discovered America was against genocide of the natives and slavery. Her goal, as a very pious woman was to convert the natives to Christianism (which is not a good thing but maybe better than slavery). Colombus nonetheless mistreated natives and started slavery on the American continents. Hernan Cortes, who conquered Mexico, did it while being on the run. He was absolutely not allowed to leave Cuba, and even less to conquer Mexico. A Spanish/Cuban expedition actually tried to capture Cortes to judge him before he conquered Mexico but Cortes managed to avoid it. Cortes most important help in the conquest came from native woman (a former slave from some native tribe, who translated everything and probably was the woman with the biggest influence in the 1600s) and from tribes who hated the Aztecs (they were regularly attacked in the flower wars to bring prisoners which had to be sacrificed to get the sympathy of the gods) This does not mean that genocides nor colonization were right, nor that former Spain or Portugal have no responsability in it. But history is way more complex than what you implied.
Will the slave traders of Africa and the Middle East also pay reparations ? They made these people slaves. It all started with them.
There’s not a single culture now or ever that has been immune to slavery. If it makes some people that crazy let’s have everyone in the world line up and hand a $5 to each person on the left.
Pretty sure the Koreans enslaved its own people.
Tell me about the British and American slaves
Most, if not all, American Indian nations practiced slavery, some of them up to the 19th century. The Gaels and Vikings were big into it, too.
Can you answer the question?
You asked about slaves in Britain and the Americas, and I gave you examples. Maybe you can rephrase?
No, you claimed all Indigenous Americans were slaveowners. No mention of the history of enslaved white Brits and Americans
First Nation people definitely took white slaves both European and much later American. Their children and grandchildren sometimes became significant figures in history. I mean I get it, you're just trolling. But these are important historical details so in that sense I thank you for your posts. Other folks may read the responses and become curious enough to go learn actual past events.
Whom do you think the Gaels and Vikings were enslaving? Koreans? American Indians enslaving whites was fairly common during the Indian Wars, though historically most of their slaves were, of course, other Indians. (The Americas had at least the cultural diversity of Europe in the Middle Ages, so referring to them as a collective demonym is silly, even if it is common modern practice.)
Read up ion ndentured servitude in early America.
Definitely one example. My mother's side came over in the 1690s as indentured servants. They were escaping feudal servitude.
[Example of Africans selling European slaves in 'recent' history](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade) Ironically this was the first war the USA fought outside the Americas, intervening in the Arab world against (certain kinds) of slavery
LOL Wowww, you really opened my eyes!!!! Time for Africans to start paying reparations to Europeans!!!!!! The Trans-Atlantic slave trade was actually about white Europeans being exported for slavery in Africa!!! Mind blown. Wowwwza!!
I literally answered your request - obviously the transatlantic slave trade was much larger & harmful
This person is weirdly aggressive of the information they asked for being given to them. None of the things people are posting are new information. We learned about these things in history class..
In your "timeline" when exactly do you consider someone being classed as British or American?
I know you probably looking for something else but in the 17th century the Moorish states (modern day Morroco, Tunisa and Algeria) raided the coast of Britain to get slaves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary\_slave\_trade#:\~:text=In%20the%201620s%20and%201640s,as%20captives%20by%20the%20corsairs.
Right before they became French colonies? LOL This is one of those things like.....I knew someone who wasn't wearing a seatbelt and survived a car accident. lol
You know that part of the reason why French attacked the North of Africa was due to raiding parties from North african ships on the northern coast of the Mediterranean sea? You have plenty of stories about them, like in 1623 in the south of France with 700 Turks (who were in control of Algeria) sacked the city and took slaves. Last occurence I read about in a 3 minutes Google seach was in 1814 by Tunisian raiders.
Yes, it's all Africa's fault. Slavery. Colonization. Cancer. You guys are brilliant people
Who said that? It is not Africa's fault if there is slavery in the world, or if they were brutally colonized... European did genocides, the slave trade was a crime against humanity. But it is not as simple as European colonialism was evil (true) and solely replaced perfect slave free societies (that is false). Slavery was existing in Africa before the colonization. And sadly, even today, after colonization, there is still currently 600k slaves in Africa. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_contemporary_Africa. Once again, this does not mean at all that colonization was a good thing, quite the contrary.
Not all Americans are white...
Oh suuuuuure, immigrants are now American. How convenient LOL Anyway, the white British and white Americans. Tell me their slavery story... :)
>immigrants are now American Yeah, that's where most of the population came from.
Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya
EDIT: cleaned up some embarassing typos --- As someone else already pointed out to you, read up on indentured servants. They started as either feudal slaves or debtor prisons. They had no freedom, for centuries no protections, their contracts were sold and families separated, raped and murdered, they were bred like cattle and their children enslaved until the contracts were paid off. That's history. Slavery isn't gone today. Slavery also exists in every culture as I type this.
Yeah, indentured servitude in BRITISH AMERICA lol You cannot conflate that with slavery. Vastly different things.
EDIT: adding that forced slave labor is still legal in the US in private and public prisons. --- Indentured servitude was legal in the US until 1865, and across the Americas until its abolition in 1917.
I repeat: indentured servitude and slavery are vastly different things. Indentured servants attained their freedom once they completed their contract. They were housed, clothed and fed. Enslaved people were permanently denied their freedom unless they could obtain the means to purchase themselves or successfully escape. Debt bondage and slavery are not the same thing. You should know better
Will there also be reparations for jews and the Ethnic cleansing they suffered all along history?
Sicily has been conquered every which way and twice on Sunday. We'd like all the reparations please; Greek, Roman, Carthigian, Moorish, Spanish, French, I'm sure I'm missing a few
How deep down this rabbit hole is reasonable? Slavery has been around for millennium. Do they just intend to draw a line in the sand in the 1500s and say anything before that isn’t worthy of reparations?
It's been around recently in Gutteres's favorite places: Islamists hellholes.
That raises another good point: slavery still exists. There’s millions of modern day slaves. Shouldn’t the focus be on ending the practice worldwide before discussing reparations? I’m willing to bet the current victims of slavery wouldn’t see a dime of any reparations.
Wonder if the money will get funnel into another persons pocket like it happened with those BLM donations.
Start with the oldest surviving claims, first. Reparations from Egypt for enslaving the Israelites. 😁 Once that's done, then move onto the next oldest claim.
Assyrians I guess? Maybe Babylon?
Man, Korea is gonna be soooo broke. What is Africa's payout liability for reparations on this?
Korea? lol pretty sure Koreans enslaved its own people.
Eh, meant it to be two separate comments/ideas. I can see it being read that way.
the shame i have of this guy i Hope he never comes back to Portugal. crappy Prime minister crappy politician he was chosen for the UN because he is a Zero .
putz
Hey, there is this group of people who have been taken as slaves recently. Is this something for guttertrash to work on changing or should each group be examined for context? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13234071/Israeli-familys-agony-mark-Jewish-festival-without-19-year-old-daughter-taken-hostage-Hamas-kept-domestic-slave-terror-group-Gaza.html
Man, the UN is saying all the dumb shit these days huh?
So, what is the statute of limitations on slavery, vis-a-vis reparations? Because slavery didn't begin in the 17th Century, nor did it end in the 19th Century.
This guy is just trying to justify his existence. Not to mention his 5th Ave residence.
Let's first work on eradicating modern day slavery, child labour and inequality. That is, if it is actually justice for slavery that you care about.
Evidently he'll have his narrow focus glasses on in again.
Isn’t there more human slavery occurring today than any time in the past?
Generations? More like millennia
This won't achieve anything.
Let’s be honest, if you qualified who wouldn’t take the money?
I wouldn't
🤨 🧢
Are we talking Chappelle Show level reparations here?
A rising tide lifts all boats
how about we start with this old white man? lets divide his wealth to his house cleaners and gardners first.
Should happen 💯