The funny thing is he said the slur in the context of trying to prevent the child buggering. There is this pervasive delusion in the church that all the child rape is a result of homosexuality instead of, y'know, pedophilia.
Pope Francis has gone on record saying, and was repeating in this case, that the church must try to welcome gays while keeping them out of seminaries.
> There is this pervasive delusion in the church that all the child rape is a result of homosexuality instead of, y'know, pedophilia.
That's exactly why the "death penalty for groomers" movement is so dangerous and disingenuous at the same time.
Pastors and religious people get reduced sentences for pedophilia already. Religious people don't give a fuck about internal pedos.
They want to kill gay people who are giving teens advice about how to come out when the teens are children of abusive religious parents.
They do keep nuns and monks sperated.
Dont know why he would push the most progress the catholic church has seen toward being reasonable to homesexuality then say this.
>There is this pervasive delusion in the church that all the child rape is a result of homosexuality instead of, y'know, pedophilia.
It's kind of both given that all the priests are male and the overwhelming majority of the victims were boys. These is also an argument that the main reason the prohibition against "laying with men as you would a women" in Leviticus was put in place was to counter the practices of having sex with young boys similar to what was seen in Ancient Greece and some parts of the Middle east today.
Either way, is anyone surprised that that Pope, the head of the Catholic church, isn't a LGBTQ ally?
>Free forgiveness with confession? Great deal.
I honestly think most of the problems of abrahamic religions come from this.
Your actions and their consequences do not matter, as long as you become devout and repent, or die a martyr for your faith, and everything is magically forgiven and you can claim to be the good guy and everything!
Perfect justification for quite a lot of the worst atrocities in history.
Part of the reason is the Catholic Church is so massively involved in education, especially compared to various protestant churches.
They also have a higher percentage of boarding schools because they cater to the geographically or otherwise disadvantaged.
They also have a much more systematic and pervasive history of trying to cover up the child diddling and just moving the molesting Catholic priests around when they are caught raping children.Ā
I imagine the reason the Catholic Church (or any other religious authority) gets hammered when there's paedophilia is because they spend most of their time pretending to represent the Holy Word of God and moralising about what behaviours we ought to be following in our personal lives.
When you're stood on one side claiming the Holy high ground, it's all the more embarrassing when you're caught with your trousers down being a child-buggering hypocrite.
Considering there is a lot of non religious the numbers in non religious atheist may be higher but we don't have the statistics.
It's fairly high among people in public state and federal offices. There was a list of Democrats and Republicans who all went to prison.
Two separate list that was posted here on Reddit separately a long time ago now that was a fairly large list.
Seems like status or employment type doesn't matter or change the ratio.
I live in a rural area with a lot of different religious groups. I'm used to seeing the term 'Irish Catholic' associated with Irish immigrants, but this area was settled by Irish protestants in the mid-1700s. There was a small influx of Polish immigrants after WW2. They were all Catholic. No one ever had a problem with them, as far as I know. All of this happened long before I was born, but a few of the original Polish immigrants are still alive. Their children and grandchildren still live here.
The first Catholic church was built in 1948, and closed in 1969. Another one was built in 1982. It's still here, but the Catholic community is extremely small. They won't discuss homosexuality or other issues they see as 'liberalizing' the church, but they don't really act on those beliefs either. Very few of them have more than 2 children, despite supposed opposition to birth control. There have never been any accusations of molesting children or other abuse. We have a lot of Amish and Mennonite communities around here too, but they never bother anyone. They also offer assistance when something awful happens to people outside their own communities.
The only people that make trouble are extremist fringe groups that isolate themselves. I don't know what they should be called since 'extremist crazies' isn't an official term. They aren't Catholics, although they've incorporated some elements of the Catholic faith. I've had numerous altercations with them because they believe everything on the planet is here for humanity. Concepts such as 'conservation' or 'animal cruelty' shouldn't exist because humans can't mistreat non-human life. It's here for us, so anything we do is okay. I strongly disagree, to say the least. They use a specific term for that ideology, but I can't remember it ATM.
Combine that with strong beliefs about gender roles and homosexuality, and it adds up to a very nasty group of people. They might actually follow their beliefs about birth control because they have a lot of kids, regardless of ability to care for them. I consider their methods of raising children 'abusive' in almost every sense, but its almost impossible to convince authorities to do anything about it. I'd rather have a massive Catholic community than even a handful of those extremist nutcases.
They have a track record of keeping secret the crimes they know of, keeping them under the rug to protect their people. They claim that they are sanctioning the crimes they know of internally within the church, but if that is true then they are just doing their private jurisdiction, which is insane. When they take away someone's position and just put them somewhere else, it's not enough.
https://www.slatervecchio.com/blog/new-report-states-public-school-sexual-abuse-is-higher-than-the-catholic-church
I'm sure cover ups are absolutely thing. The fact that they are even close in numbers and everyone only brings up the one is the alarming thing to me.
At worst they are higher, at best they are close, still both are awful outcomes.
Physical abuse? I'd say the number seems low. You know how many kids get abused physically in some form between kindergarten and gr 12?
Reefing on a small kids arm, football coach smacking a player. I was physically abused at least once that I was aware of going through school.
Thatās because every case with the Catholic Church you hear about is a case against the Catholic Church. Every case from public schools is against Springfield Elementary or Alexandria High or whatever. A random predator at some small public school doesnāt make the news outside the local area (if that even), but every predator in the church makes nationwide news (nowadays) as another predator in the church.
Not really. They have been more divisive than anything. For every pro LGBTQ Catholic there is another conservative opponent. The Popeās movements are likely genuine, especially since they are somewhat tiny measures of support.
P. Francis is a reformist, itās why he chose Francis as his name. While he still 100% considers the public image of the Church, itās very likely that he agrees with his changes (however small) at a moral level.
Why give a fuck what the church thinks? Let their country club have the rules whatwver they want. They dont have to conform to modern society and you dont have to join theĀ this Catholic version of God fan club.
Hah, but nah, the Vatican has its tentacles wrapped around the western world since the 14th century unfortunately.
But I guess itās better than Mecca wrapping theirs around the western and Arab worldā¦but not by much.
Now cmon, if Reddit taught me anything, itās that if anything is done in the name of Christianity, itās judged as a monolith.
One represents all, and all are equally judged as the one.
Oh then yes, by all means yes.
All churches (actually all non profits in general) should be put through a test of legitimacy. If X% of the funds are not being used for legitimate acts of charity or public utility then they should be absolutely fined and reclassified as for profit businesses.
True, I agree the Catholic Church deserves to pay its fair share.
But, it would come at a cost of also taxing other things like urban soup kitchens, and food banks, and charitable medical clinics.
Prime real estate needs to be taxed evenly, or we have to allow exemptions for non profit organizations, and until a politician grows enough balls to audit the Catholic Church to determine if theyāre a legitimate 501(c)3ā¦well, status quo will be status quo
Clearly you wouldn't single them out. Most other religions have similar issues with their tax exempt status and some of them are pushing the envelope way more. The Catholic church is just one of the largest. And that's why it won't happen any time in the foreseeable future. Some politicians might have few enough Catholic constituents to target them, but depending on where they live there's probably some other religion that doesn't want them looking too closely at their finances.
Maybe those taxes could go to something like, oh I don't know, soup kitchens, food banks and charitable medical clinics that aren't run by horrible organizations that condone abuse and hoard all of the money overseas anyway
>Maybe those taxes could go to something like, oh I don't know, soup kitchens, food banks and charitable medical clinics
That would be nice but you're 1000X more likely to see those funds go towards tax cuts for the rich. In what world do you live in that you think that tax money would go toward the poor?
Is your point that taxing the church would take money away from the programs that the church offers and be used for less helpful reasons such as program that help organizations that don't need it?
I have no church, but I took advantage of the food they gave when I was needy, and was given a voucher for a hotel to stay in for a week once, all for the cost of listening to a service and asking for help.
Iām an agnostic myself, but if more churches are like that I could be persuaded tbh.
Remember that taxes are a percentage of your profits on a sliding scale. They aren't designed to put anyone out of business. And they are welcome to apply as a charity and have the same rules apply to them that other charities have. They would be tax exempt still on a lot of things. Just not on the insane profit that they make.
I'm glad you found help but it's worth mentioning that what was a good organization for you, is a shitty one for many
Bullshit. I grew up in a Catholic school. That money goes toward people in the community. The donations go to the living of the nuns, priests, upkeep of the property, tuition assistance for needy families, food and clothing for people in need etc. It's easy for people looking from the outside in to talk shit.
Says the guy in the dress. LOL. /s
Leader of the largest child-buggering organization in the world.
The funny thing is he said the slur in the context of trying to prevent the child buggering. There is this pervasive delusion in the church that all the child rape is a result of homosexuality instead of, y'know, pedophilia. Pope Francis has gone on record saying, and was repeating in this case, that the church must try to welcome gays while keeping them out of seminaries.
> There is this pervasive delusion in the church that all the child rape is a result of homosexuality instead of, y'know, pedophilia. That's exactly why the "death penalty for groomers" movement is so dangerous and disingenuous at the same time. Pastors and religious people get reduced sentences for pedophilia already. Religious people don't give a fuck about internal pedos. They want to kill gay people who are giving teens advice about how to come out when the teens are children of abusive religious parents.
They do keep nuns and monks sperated. Dont know why he would push the most progress the catholic church has seen toward being reasonable to homesexuality then say this.
Oh man, what a minefield šµāš«
>There is this pervasive delusion in the church that all the child rape is a result of homosexuality instead of, y'know, pedophilia. It's kind of both given that all the priests are male and the overwhelming majority of the victims were boys. These is also an argument that the main reason the prohibition against "laying with men as you would a women" in Leviticus was put in place was to counter the practices of having sex with young boys similar to what was seen in Ancient Greece and some parts of the Middle east today. Either way, is anyone surprised that that Pope, the head of the Catholic church, isn't a LGBTQ ally?
Reminds me of the SVU episode where they asked the pedophile if he liked boys or girls and he looked so indignant and said āIāM NOT GAY!ā
Why are the ones closest to GOD the ones you gotta watch your kids around?
Itās amazing what one can justify in a fantasy world where reality and fantasy diverge. Free forgiveness with confession? Great deal.
>Free forgiveness with confession? Great deal. I honestly think most of the problems of abrahamic religions come from this. Your actions and their consequences do not matter, as long as you become devout and repent, or die a martyr for your faith, and everything is magically forgiven and you can claim to be the good guy and everything! Perfect justification for quite a lot of the worst atrocities in history.
Maybe the big man in the clouds is a diddler as well? He was already a mass murderer and all that and promoted inbreeding, so who knows.
*Child RAPING organizations.
Pretty much all "religions" abuse children... and I'm including "sports" and "parental" religions š
Technically your public schools have more cases/1000 but you don't hear about that. Not absolving the shit the Catholic Church does at all.
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Part of the reason is the Catholic Church is so massively involved in education, especially compared to various protestant churches. They also have a higher percentage of boarding schools because they cater to the geographically or otherwise disadvantaged.
They also have a much more systematic and pervasive history of trying to cover up the child diddling and just moving the molesting Catholic priests around when they are caught raping children.Ā
I imagine the reason the Catholic Church (or any other religious authority) gets hammered when there's paedophilia is because they spend most of their time pretending to represent the Holy Word of God and moralising about what behaviours we ought to be following in our personal lives. When you're stood on one side claiming the Holy high ground, it's all the more embarrassing when you're caught with your trousers down being a child-buggering hypocrite.
Considering there is a lot of non religious the numbers in non religious atheist may be higher but we don't have the statistics. It's fairly high among people in public state and federal offices. There was a list of Democrats and Republicans who all went to prison. Two separate list that was posted here on Reddit separately a long time ago now that was a fairly large list. Seems like status or employment type doesn't matter or change the ratio.
I live in a rural area with a lot of different religious groups. I'm used to seeing the term 'Irish Catholic' associated with Irish immigrants, but this area was settled by Irish protestants in the mid-1700s. There was a small influx of Polish immigrants after WW2. They were all Catholic. No one ever had a problem with them, as far as I know. All of this happened long before I was born, but a few of the original Polish immigrants are still alive. Their children and grandchildren still live here. The first Catholic church was built in 1948, and closed in 1969. Another one was built in 1982. It's still here, but the Catholic community is extremely small. They won't discuss homosexuality or other issues they see as 'liberalizing' the church, but they don't really act on those beliefs either. Very few of them have more than 2 children, despite supposed opposition to birth control. There have never been any accusations of molesting children or other abuse. We have a lot of Amish and Mennonite communities around here too, but they never bother anyone. They also offer assistance when something awful happens to people outside their own communities. The only people that make trouble are extremist fringe groups that isolate themselves. I don't know what they should be called since 'extremist crazies' isn't an official term. They aren't Catholics, although they've incorporated some elements of the Catholic faith. I've had numerous altercations with them because they believe everything on the planet is here for humanity. Concepts such as 'conservation' or 'animal cruelty' shouldn't exist because humans can't mistreat non-human life. It's here for us, so anything we do is okay. I strongly disagree, to say the least. They use a specific term for that ideology, but I can't remember it ATM. Combine that with strong beliefs about gender roles and homosexuality, and it adds up to a very nasty group of people. They might actually follow their beliefs about birth control because they have a lot of kids, regardless of ability to care for them. I consider their methods of raising children 'abusive' in almost every sense, but its almost impossible to convince authorities to do anything about it. I'd rather have a massive Catholic community than even a handful of those extremist nutcases.
They have a track record of keeping secret the crimes they know of, keeping them under the rug to protect their people. They claim that they are sanctioning the crimes they know of internally within the church, but if that is true then they are just doing their private jurisdiction, which is insane. When they take away someone's position and just put them somewhere else, it's not enough.
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https://www.slatervecchio.com/blog/new-report-states-public-school-sexual-abuse-is-higher-than-the-catholic-church I'm sure cover ups are absolutely thing. The fact that they are even close in numbers and everyone only brings up the one is the alarming thing to me. At worst they are higher, at best they are close, still both are awful outcomes.
Only because the Catholic Church is self-policed and the guilty are shuffled around to new parishes.
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Physical abuse? I'd say the number seems low. You know how many kids get abused physically in some form between kindergarten and gr 12? Reefing on a small kids arm, football coach smacking a player. I was physically abused at least once that I was aware of going through school.
No I'd say that tracks. Maybe cellphones help mitigate some of it now but... if anything that number seems low.
Thatās because every case with the Catholic Church you hear about is a case against the Catholic Church. Every case from public schools is against Springfield Elementary or Alexandria High or whatever. A random predator at some small public school doesnāt make the news outside the local area (if that even), but every predator in the church makes nationwide news (nowadays) as another predator in the church.
Iād love to see some stats from a credible source.
The public school system?
And leader of a no women club.
Do nuns not count?
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Thought this said āNot in the orgy, no.ā
Youāre thinking of vampires
Are you familiar with the National Organization of Men Against Amazonian Masterhood?
Anyway I said to the priest, itās a lovely frock darling, but your purse is on fire.
exactly and its pride month too, tut tut, nah but fr how are these guys catching him lacking AGAIN lol sounds like the pope got opps
He should talk to Martha-Ann.
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What makes you think the church gives a fuck about LGBT?
Not really. They have been more divisive than anything. For every pro LGBTQ Catholic there is another conservative opponent. The Popeās movements are likely genuine, especially since they are somewhat tiny measures of support. P. Francis is a reformist, itās why he chose Francis as his name. While he still 100% considers the public image of the Church, itās very likely that he agrees with his changes (however small) at a moral level.
He has never deviated from the stances of ratzinger.
Why give a fuck what the church thinks? Let their country club have the rules whatwver they want. They dont have to conform to modern society and you dont have to join theĀ this Catholic version of God fan club.
Pay your taxes
The Vatican is its own countryā¦
That operates in other countries all around the world.
*USA steps into the room*
Oddly enough theyāre paid to be there in some cases.
Like a protection racket.
Or like one of those horror movies, *The USA was in the room the whole time*.
Hah, but nah, the Vatican has its tentacles wrapped around the western world since the 14th century unfortunately. But I guess itās better than Mecca wrapping theirs around the western and Arab worldā¦but not by much.
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Now cmon, if Reddit taught me anything, itās that if anything is done in the name of Christianity, itās judged as a monolith. One represents all, and all are equally judged as the one.
Where they donāt pay TAXES. The people they harass, minimize and throw away do.
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Oh then yes, by all means yes. All churches (actually all non profits in general) should be put through a test of legitimacy. If X% of the funds are not being used for legitimate acts of charity or public utility then they should be absolutely fined and reclassified as for profit businesses.
Or made to split between purposes.
Catholic churches in the US do not pay property tax while occupying prime real estate.
True, I agree the Catholic Church deserves to pay its fair share. But, it would come at a cost of also taxing other things like urban soup kitchens, and food banks, and charitable medical clinics. Prime real estate needs to be taxed evenly, or we have to allow exemptions for non profit organizations, and until a politician grows enough balls to audit the Catholic Church to determine if theyāre a legitimate 501(c)3ā¦well, status quo will be status quo
Clearly you wouldn't single them out. Most other religions have similar issues with their tax exempt status and some of them are pushing the envelope way more. The Catholic church is just one of the largest. And that's why it won't happen any time in the foreseeable future. Some politicians might have few enough Catholic constituents to target them, but depending on where they live there's probably some other religion that doesn't want them looking too closely at their finances.
Maybe those taxes could go to something like, oh I don't know, soup kitchens, food banks and charitable medical clinics that aren't run by horrible organizations that condone abuse and hoard all of the money overseas anyway
>Maybe those taxes could go to something like, oh I don't know, soup kitchens, food banks and charitable medical clinics That would be nice but you're 1000X more likely to see those funds go towards tax cuts for the rich. In what world do you live in that you think that tax money would go toward the poor?
You do realize that not taxing the church is a tax cut for the rich?
You're missing the big picture and my point.
Is your point that taxing the church would take money away from the programs that the church offers and be used for less helpful reasons such as program that help organizations that don't need it?
Sure, but plenty of local small churches do that too, so to eliminate one org will also have the unwanted side effect of doing more damage than good
Your church makes more money than you think. And if they are part of the catholic church, that money isn't staying in your community
I have no church, but I took advantage of the food they gave when I was needy, and was given a voucher for a hotel to stay in for a week once, all for the cost of listening to a service and asking for help. Iām an agnostic myself, but if more churches are like that I could be persuaded tbh.
Remember that taxes are a percentage of your profits on a sliding scale. They aren't designed to put anyone out of business. And they are welcome to apply as a charity and have the same rules apply to them that other charities have. They would be tax exempt still on a lot of things. Just not on the insane profit that they make. I'm glad you found help but it's worth mentioning that what was a good organization for you, is a shitty one for many
Bullshit. I grew up in a Catholic school. That money goes toward people in the community. The donations go to the living of the nuns, priests, upkeep of the property, tuition assistance for needy families, food and clothing for people in need etc. It's easy for people looking from the outside in to talk shit.
It's easy for the people on the inside to refuse to believe that there might be something wrong with their institutionĀ
I'm sorry what? I'm seeing the money collected in church being actively used to help our community and I'm the one confused here?
and so does every other church and religious organization Edit: You agree and downvote me? Shows your bias and agenda.
Yes all of them should pay taxes.
I don't disagree.
Cool, my bad, I misread and assumed whataboutism
Letās see if they can handle a small discovery of oil inside their borders then
Considering that it's a tiny city inside Italy only an idiot would even bother going to look for oil there in the first place.
Maybe holy oil - must be a lot there.
cannonite know until we bring democracy there
I am an idiot where do I start?
Find one of the walking fossils and put them in a blender or something idk
He is quite literally the leader of a country that is not the us why would he pay us taxes
Catholic Churches in the US have tax exemption status. The above commenter is advocating for them to lose that status.
Wow he said a naughty word? I canāt think of a worse thing a Catholic official has ever done. Oh waitā¦
At least he's not a hypocrite... /s
The worst part is the hypocrisy
Yea if you rape kids you get to do whatever you want because it's not the worst thing you have done
Of all the things Catholics have done behind closed doors this is definitely one of them.
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