Russia is desperate for any help. They’re in too deep with Ukraine and can’t go it alone anymore. That is Russia’s mistake and now they have no leverage but Western hatred left.
China goes to war, they're losing HELLA money and are going to be set back 10 years in their development. (which is the only way they can compete with the west)
China likes to poke at the west, but ultimately they recognize that the west is vital to their economy. Ultimately, while they probably hope Putin wins in Ukraine it's not an issue large enough for China to risk their economy and thenregime's stability over. North Korea doesn't have such concerns and are more than willing to work with another pariah state.
In my opinion, seems like China would have more leverage to call in whatever debt Putin would be in after their "help." North Korea, once again in my opinion only, seems like they would be a little easier to ignore when the bill comes due.
Well i think whats happening from my armchair here on reddit is: there’s no chance N.korea is giving away millions of it’s artillery shells with enough left in their stocks to feel safe at home. They’re sending most of what they have and then getting brand new stuff from the PRC, so that Xi can plausibly deny supporting Putins genocide.
There has been reports of duds from the 1970’s ordanace they’ve been offloading to Russia.
Try to read between the lines but they have been supplying 1970’s ordnance to Russia. Undoubtedly, those are gonna have reliability issues.
https://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-suspected-sending-1970s-weapons-russia-1899829
I 100% buy into the theory that these two are planning the 21st century version of a Cuban Missile Crisis for September or October to try to make Biden look weak ahead of the election.
I’d be anxious if I was in South Korea or Japan.
Yeah, I’ve got that same nagging feeling. BUT, the good news is that Biden is actually great at surrounding himself with experts, and more importantly, *listening to them*. He’s been around the block and knows what’s up. (Hell, he was first elected to public office less than a decade after the actual Cuban Missile Crisis, lol!)
I’ll bet US intelligence already has this possibility in mind, and they’ve already drawn up possible solutions. When the time comes, Biden will go with the best plan laid out by his best people, something that someone like Trump is patently incapable of.
I won’t be surprised if something like this happens, and Biden’s generals and intelligence chiefs handle it it so well that it actually bolsters Biden’s numbers instead of tanking them.
Come on man. There is plenty of footage around showing that he is deteriorating health wise. He got confused and walked off stage by Obama like two nights ago
Imagine thinking the President not pretending like he already knows everything and actually listening to experts is a *bad* thing. Also, he looks fine to me, but then I don’t consume conservative “news”.
You're right a good leader does listen to experts then makes decisions based on what they say. A bad leader is a mouthpiece that doesn't interpret or measure advice.
I mean, neither of the old-ass men running for Prez have enough mental capacity to make anyone feel comfortable, right? And we know for a fact that Trump only keeps people around him who will do what he says with no pushback. So maybe we take the guy who lets experts in each area help call the plays?
That would be sensible. But according to betting agencies that isn't going to be the outcome. Trump is paying $1.65 and Biden is paying around $2.80. They rarely get it wrong.
>They rarely get it wrong
Good point, lol. If there's anyone who ignores feelings and sticks to the data that makes the money, it's Vegas (and I say that unironically). If that spread was tighter I'd be wary, but that's a pretty solid bet...
ETA - Please note that I use "Vegas" here to represent betting agencies in general. I'm aware that betting on the outcome of political contests in the US is illegal.
I know that it's illegal for people in the US to bet on the results of *US elections*, but I have no idea if it's legal for people here to place bets on political races taking place in other countries? Not that it matters to this convo really, just saying.
westerners are going to see the new alliance of authoritarian dictators and be reminded of the old one, you seem to have had a strong emotional reaction to something very obvious
["Axis"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_powers) is liberal democracy speak from 85 years ago.
Notice how the person you responded unnecessarily aggressively to said "this century's"?
Is BRICS just 5 countries? Is NATO just 32 countries? Are countries just a random collection and alliances don't exist in your world, whether they're written alliance or informal?
If the self-proclaimed "2nd strongest military in the world" superpower needs to beg for stuff from a country like NK he's a disgrace no matter the outcome
I like how this dude‘s big dick flexing has a fallen all the way down to taking a little trip to North Korea.
lol
This has got to be one of the most embarrassing wars started by a world superpower in the history of man.
Oh I’m sorry “two week special military operation.”
Not necessarily.
Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) is one of them.
Like India has no beef with any western nations, but US sanctions were imposed because India tried to acquire space tech from Russia .
>choices, actions and rhetoric that are anti-West.
A nation which didn't cross western interests was sanctioned because it wanted to reach the space age.
India crosses western interests all the time. They assassinated a guy in Canada, buy tons of Russian oil, not that long ago they got the majority of their weapons from Russia.
Their relationship obviously makes giving them missile control tech risky.
India has openly been pro-Russia since the 1971 war.
Trust of general public that US were defenders of democracy was lost during Nixon's time.
Buying russian weapons were cheaper for a poor nation.
And India is currently shifting to European markets for advanced weapons.
Other things you said happened in the last 10 years since RW govt gained power.
I don’t think those are counter to why the sanctions exist. Openly being pro Russia is an angle where the leverage of sanctions is useful. Agreed, that boat sailed long ago.
I can’t fault India in procuring defence equipment. Price was a factor as was the West’s support of Pakistan and hatred of socialism. Trying to strengthen security ties now is a good idea, Russia does not look reliable as a military provider even if they win. European arms do, Biden’s giving them a five-hundred mil sampler pack too. I’m sure the military industrial complex salivates.
Anyway I agree with all your points but sanctions are just a way to get geopolitical advantage. Well aside from the Cuba embargo, I think that’s just some weird experiment to break it first.
India is not aligned with the US against Russia as you said. They’re presented with not only the carrot of advanced and reliable weapons but the stick of sanctions. If they move away from Russia that’s another ally or non-variable, if they keep ties better to weaken a potential enemy’s position sooner or at least check how strong ties are.
Using India as an example doesn’t make sense. India has historically played either side, depending on the cost-benefit.
They’ve had friendly ties with Tehran and Moscow and shared tech with them in the past, which is what led to those sanctions you mention. They’ve recently assassinated a Canadian national on Canadian soil. India is by no means a foe of the West but they definitely have beef at times.
>India has historically played either side, depending on the cost-benefit.
India started non-aligned movement to avoid falling into the cold war trap. And asked American assistance first to solve the Bangladesh issue. But Nixon pushed India into openly Russian hands.
Rise of RW ultranationalist govt in the past 10 years made India a nation that doesn't care for much ideals.
Nixon made a mistake and popular India narrative has been pro-russia ever since.
Devils advocate here!
Why cant somebody just shoot down putins plane and blame it on a accident or something?
Pretty sure Russia has done this a few times before and got away with it
Just asking like.
I'm sure Putins plane will have a large, heavily equipped escort all the way down. Fighters, EW aircraft, ground attack aircraft, etc... They would probably not hesitate to shoot anything that got close.
Gross oversimplification here, but, that kinda thing can spiral way out of control and 'cause a world war' - see the assassination of Franz Ferdinand leading to WW1.
Like I said, it's a major oversimplification to put it so bluntly, there's much more to it, but the point is assassinating a head of state, especially during heightened tensions, will often result in the opposite effect to what you're looking for.
I mean, probably. There were other Hitlers until that one guy in the family went all "genocidal dictator" and whatnot. Things for the family got so bad after his shenanigans that the rest of the family all changed their names or [made informal pacts not to reproduce](https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/23793/did-adolf-hitlers-family-make-a-pact-to-ensure-the-line-died-out), avoiding bringing unfortunate kids into the world with such a weight hanging around their necks.
Nothing says “I’m the good guy in this conflict!” better than cozying up with the worlds largest prison camp the second the war stops going your way. Would love to see the mental gymnastics Putin supporters come up with for allying with a leader who treats his own “citizens” worse than most countries treat their worst enemies
The factions never went away. And Russia was just pretending to be a normal civilization for 20 years. Russia can never be trusted again. They need to lose all nukes at the end of this.
While threatening SK to not provide arms. SK should just provide arms to Russia's enemies considering Russia is conspiring and supporting an enemy of theirs.
You might want to learn history and understand geopolitics.
You might also want to use a little critical thinking and ask yourself why Putin felt emboldened to invade Ukraine.
Russia is desperate for any help. They’re in too deep with Ukraine and can’t go it alone anymore. That is Russia’s mistake and now they have no leverage but Western hatred left.
Actual question, why would he be going to NK over China for help?
China is trying to portray themselves as neutral
China goes to war, they're losing HELLA money and are going to be set back 10 years in their development. (which is the only way they can compete with the west)
China is probably funneling shit to NK that goes to Putin too.
Most definitely
Because NK is already sanctioned up the ass. China (particularly their banks) have a butt fuck ton to lose.
China likes to poke at the west, but ultimately they recognize that the west is vital to their economy. Ultimately, while they probably hope Putin wins in Ukraine it's not an issue large enough for China to risk their economy and thenregime's stability over. North Korea doesn't have such concerns and are more than willing to work with another pariah state.
In my opinion, seems like China would have more leverage to call in whatever debt Putin would be in after their "help." North Korea, once again in my opinion only, seems like they would be a little easier to ignore when the bill comes due.
What if you could get the same deal, but by orchestrating the meeting with your client state to the south?
Can't pretend there's no one home when you share a border with the debt collector
NK can be a middle man for China.
Well i think whats happening from my armchair here on reddit is: there’s no chance N.korea is giving away millions of it’s artillery shells with enough left in their stocks to feel safe at home. They’re sending most of what they have and then getting brand new stuff from the PRC, so that Xi can plausibly deny supporting Putins genocide.
NK has actually been supplying weapons to Russia since their supplies were depleted for a while. One report was 5 million artillery shells.
Also, China is a bigger player than Russia at this point. He’d basically be going there begging, while he can still go into NK and be the big man.
China can’t risk sanctions and North Korea is a great place for cheap labor. Russia doesn’t want to be 💯 dependent on China so why not nkorea?
He already went to China and they are already helping him
Esp with Germany and France stepping up at least verbally.
Putin is bigly upset that 50% of NK’s munitions are duds.
Putin is so screwed over his botched Ukrainian invasion, he’ll take whatever he can get. Any port in a storm…
He's a Karen going to complain to the manager
He's looking for a dud rebate?
North Korea’s duds came from the Soviets, so if anything they should be mad at him.
You have source on that?
There has been reports of duds from the 1970’s ordanace they’ve been offloading to Russia. Try to read between the lines but they have been supplying 1970’s ordnance to Russia. Undoubtedly, those are gonna have reliability issues. https://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-suspected-sending-1970s-weapons-russia-1899829
Axis powers take 2
I 100% buy into the theory that these two are planning the 21st century version of a Cuban Missile Crisis for September or October to try to make Biden look weak ahead of the election. I’d be anxious if I was in South Korea or Japan.
Yeah, I’ve got that same nagging feeling. BUT, the good news is that Biden is actually great at surrounding himself with experts, and more importantly, *listening to them*. He’s been around the block and knows what’s up. (Hell, he was first elected to public office less than a decade after the actual Cuban Missile Crisis, lol!) I’ll bet US intelligence already has this possibility in mind, and they’ve already drawn up possible solutions. When the time comes, Biden will go with the best plan laid out by his best people, something that someone like Trump is patently incapable of. I won’t be surprised if something like this happens, and Biden’s generals and intelligence chiefs handle it it so well that it actually bolsters Biden’s numbers instead of tanking them.
He needs to surround himself with experts because he doesn't know wtf is going on. Dudes clearly unwell.
How so?
Come on man. There is plenty of footage around showing that he is deteriorating health wise. He got confused and walked off stage by Obama like two nights ago
Sigh
Hey if you are that blinded by political allegiance you can no longer see objective reality then that is on you.
Mhmm
Didn’t Trump shit himself a couple times in court or something?
Imagine thinking the President not pretending like he already knows everything and actually listening to experts is a *bad* thing. Also, he looks fine to me, but then I don’t consume conservative “news”.
You're right a good leader does listen to experts then makes decisions based on what they say. A bad leader is a mouthpiece that doesn't interpret or measure advice.
So you agree that Biden is a good leader, then?
I don't think he currently has the capacity mentally to consume advice and make decisions himself. Once he did, but I am not so sure anymore.
And let me guess, you don’t have similar concerns about Trump?
Both are a dumpster fire.
I mean, neither of the old-ass men running for Prez have enough mental capacity to make anyone feel comfortable, right? And we know for a fact that Trump only keeps people around him who will do what he says with no pushback. So maybe we take the guy who lets experts in each area help call the plays?
That would be sensible. But according to betting agencies that isn't going to be the outcome. Trump is paying $1.65 and Biden is paying around $2.80. They rarely get it wrong.
>They rarely get it wrong Good point, lol. If there's anyone who ignores feelings and sticks to the data that makes the money, it's Vegas (and I say that unironically). If that spread was tighter I'd be wary, but that's a pretty solid bet... ETA - Please note that I use "Vegas" here to represent betting agencies in general. I'm aware that betting on the outcome of political contests in the US is illegal.
Wow i didn't know that it was illegal in the US. My info is from betting agencies in Australia.
I know that it's illegal for people in the US to bet on the results of *US elections*, but I have no idea if it's legal for people here to place bets on political races taking place in other countries? Not that it matters to this convo really, just saying.
Pathetic 'President' Putin needs to go and publicly beg little rocket man for some artillery shells. What a disgrace for the Russian people.
NK, Russia, China, and Iran are this century's Axis.
You forgot Iran
Try reading that again.
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so what are they then
4 countries.
who are all allied in ways and wish to weaken US and Western influence on the globe
See you seem to know how to describe them without using neo-con speak from 22 years ago.
westerners are going to see the new alliance of authoritarian dictators and be reminded of the old one, you seem to have had a strong emotional reaction to something very obvious
So you're saying these countries have absolutely nothing in common, like, say, authoritarian regimes with little regard for human rights?
Are you one of these people who thinks sending aid to Ukraine is "neocon". Because apparently every war now is the same as Iraq.
You’re not as insightful as you think you are my friend.
["Axis"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_powers) is liberal democracy speak from 85 years ago. Notice how the person you responded unnecessarily aggressively to said "this century's"?
Is BRICS just 5 countries? Is NATO just 32 countries? Are countries just a random collection and alliances don't exist in your world, whether they're written alliance or informal?
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Exactly... What a beggar. Pootin is almost done... He's running out while the west ramps up production...
40 years ago NK was essentially a vassal state of USSR, look how the tables have turned lol
Won't be a disgrace if he gets needed artillery and wins the war.
If the self-proclaimed "2nd strongest military in the world" superpower needs to beg for stuff from a country like NK he's a disgrace no matter the outcome
I like how this dude‘s big dick flexing has a fallen all the way down to taking a little trip to North Korea. lol This has got to be one of the most embarrassing wars started by a world superpower in the history of man. Oh I’m sorry “two week special military operation.”
Ani-west? More like antiworld
Most of these anti-west nations are against western sanctions, not against western people.
Yet they are sanctioned due to choices, actions and rhetoric that are anti-West.
Not necessarily. Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) is one of them. Like India has no beef with any western nations, but US sanctions were imposed because India tried to acquire space tech from Russia . >choices, actions and rhetoric that are anti-West. A nation which didn't cross western interests was sanctioned because it wanted to reach the space age.
India crosses western interests all the time. They assassinated a guy in Canada, buy tons of Russian oil, not that long ago they got the majority of their weapons from Russia. Their relationship obviously makes giving them missile control tech risky.
India has openly been pro-Russia since the 1971 war. Trust of general public that US were defenders of democracy was lost during Nixon's time. Buying russian weapons were cheaper for a poor nation. And India is currently shifting to European markets for advanced weapons. Other things you said happened in the last 10 years since RW govt gained power.
I don’t think those are counter to why the sanctions exist. Openly being pro Russia is an angle where the leverage of sanctions is useful. Agreed, that boat sailed long ago. I can’t fault India in procuring defence equipment. Price was a factor as was the West’s support of Pakistan and hatred of socialism. Trying to strengthen security ties now is a good idea, Russia does not look reliable as a military provider even if they win. European arms do, Biden’s giving them a five-hundred mil sampler pack too. I’m sure the military industrial complex salivates. Anyway I agree with all your points but sanctions are just a way to get geopolitical advantage. Well aside from the Cuba embargo, I think that’s just some weird experiment to break it first. India is not aligned with the US against Russia as you said. They’re presented with not only the carrot of advanced and reliable weapons but the stick of sanctions. If they move away from Russia that’s another ally or non-variable, if they keep ties better to weaken a potential enemy’s position sooner or at least check how strong ties are.
Using India as an example doesn’t make sense. India has historically played either side, depending on the cost-benefit. They’ve had friendly ties with Tehran and Moscow and shared tech with them in the past, which is what led to those sanctions you mention. They’ve recently assassinated a Canadian national on Canadian soil. India is by no means a foe of the West but they definitely have beef at times.
>India has historically played either side, depending on the cost-benefit. India started non-aligned movement to avoid falling into the cold war trap. And asked American assistance first to solve the Bangladesh issue. But Nixon pushed India into openly Russian hands. Rise of RW ultranationalist govt in the past 10 years made India a nation that doesn't care for much ideals. Nixon made a mistake and popular India narrative has been pro-russia ever since.
Devils advocate here! Why cant somebody just shoot down putins plane and blame it on a accident or something? Pretty sure Russia has done this a few times before and got away with it Just asking like.
It’s pretty easy for Putin to travel to most of Asia without getting anywhere near airspace that he doesn’t control, either directly or indirectly.
Because that would ignite a nuclear war
I'm sure Putins plane will have a large, heavily equipped escort all the way down. Fighters, EW aircraft, ground attack aircraft, etc... They would probably not hesitate to shoot anything that got close.
If they can see it. Perhaps something with the radar signature of a bee .....
Gross oversimplification here, but, that kinda thing can spiral way out of control and 'cause a world war' - see the assassination of Franz Ferdinand leading to WW1. Like I said, it's a major oversimplification to put it so bluntly, there's much more to it, but the point is assassinating a head of state, especially during heightened tensions, will often result in the opposite effect to what you're looking for.
It's nice to see Putin begging like a dog.
Russia’s Putin? is there a slightly less violent/oligarchic one living in Iowa or Montenegro
I mean, probably. There were other Hitlers until that one guy in the family went all "genocidal dictator" and whatnot. Things for the family got so bad after his shenanigans that the rest of the family all changed their names or [made informal pacts not to reproduce](https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/23793/did-adolf-hitlers-family-make-a-pact-to-ensure-the-line-died-out), avoiding bringing unfortunate kids into the world with such a weight hanging around their necks.
It would be funny if he just disappears on that trip
Maybe Eli Copter has already infiltrated their ranks.
When North Korea is the best ally you've got.. Lol
The Cheapest labor tho
Isn't north Korea the country that can't feed it's own people and the ruler is fat?
How does he not look at his allies and think "maybe I'm the bad guy..."
because the real bad guys dont care if theyre the bad guy
Nothing says “I’m the good guy in this conflict!” better than cozying up with the worlds largest prison camp the second the war stops going your way. Would love to see the mental gymnastics Putin supporters come up with for allying with a leader who treats his own “citizens” worse than most countries treat their worst enemies
he out of ammo or men, take your pick
I hope his train derails and explodes on its trip down
The world is slowly splitting into factions again
The factions never went away. And Russia was just pretending to be a normal civilization for 20 years. Russia can never be trusted again. They need to lose all nukes at the end of this.
5900 nukes. Perhaps a lie. Just 590
You can always judge a man by the company he keeps
”Deepens”, bottom of the “barrel gang” can’t get deeper in to the pile of feces they’re in.
Watch, He’s gonna fake a crash and use the opportunity to disappear
Maybe...maybe there's a McDonald's there for Putin.
Did Putin salute any NK generals?
Let's hope he stays in North Korea...
he's going in to a ''learning trip'', since he's transforming Russia in something like NK.
I hope he will stay there.
While threatening SK to not provide arms. SK should just provide arms to Russia's enemies considering Russia is conspiring and supporting an enemy of theirs.
Time to beg for some more crappy bombs.
Putin only likes him because he's taller than him 💀💀💀💀
I think it would be really funny if NK just kills him. c'mon NK you can completely flip your image in just one easy move!!
“i hate US more” “no i hate US more” then they stare into eachothers eyes and lock lips
The same country that with poop bags tied to balloons? Ok
Maybe he’ll salute a North Korean general. Oh wait, that was trump.
Not even Shitty countries’ leaders did that.
The Legion of Doom that doesn't give a shit about their people. Trump wants the US to join.
Why are these two's disdain for the west deeper now that they are pretending to like each other?
Totalitarian North Korea isn't that isolated anymore
Tomahawk 🪓🪓⚰️⚰️
kim jong un has the chance to do something *hilarious*
Countries beacons of success and wellbeing. /s
If north korea detained putin for the ICC, theyd really flip the script/make history for the better
Vlad needs more fodder.
May lightening strike at just the right moment.
Dictators like dick.
I hope that Kim Jong-un can help Putin see reason.
Remember when we didn't have this problem under Trump and actually had zero conflict / open communication?
You might want to learn history and understand geopolitics. You might also want to use a little critical thinking and ask yourself why Putin felt emboldened to invade Ukraine.
Because the US president is a senile weak old man that the world laughs at, that's why