>It's a huge military base full of 18 year olds to 20 somethings. A lot of them are assholes who constantly need to have a dick measuring contest with Xbox's in their dorm rooms.
And if we're being real, it's not like enlisted are the sharpest tools.
Honestly, I think having the bravery to defend your country with your life is more impressive than an engineer working in a cushy office, guarded by the guys that you look down on.
The flaw with your comment is that a college degree in the states often has more to do with a person’s socioeconomic situation than their intelligence. I’ve met some really dumb people with degrees. Especially non stem degrees. A lot of people unfamiliar with the military don’t understand the asvab and how it affects the career field of the enlisted person. Military technical training can be more useful, effective, and challenging than college classes. You simply can’t assume the intelligence of someone based on whether they went to college or not.
College education is the barometer used to gauge a demographic’s intelligence. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but that certainly does not apply to 18-20 year olds.
Yes it is. Its very much a barometer in political polling for example. The major is irrelevant. College has the common-core’s as a requirement for graduation which includes language arts, public speaking, critical thinking, basic math etc.
How does that qualify you to insult an entire group of (currently) a million men and women. Both of my parents were enlisted in the Air Force for 20 years, so I’ve probably spent at least as much time around airmen and soldiers as you. Being an engineer doesn’t make you smart, it makes you specialized. It takes a certain personality type to go clearing houses with machine guns. It doesn’t make them stupid. It means they have an aptitude for that kind of job. My degree is in a stem field as well, and I’ve met plenty of arrogant people who think their degree makes them smarter than other people. Generalization of a million people because of your small personal experience is not smart, no matter what you say. A lot of enlisted people go to college after the military.
No, it’s not really that broad of a stroke. 18-20 years are already impulsive and kind of dumb. Junior enlisted are definitely a collective of morons.
Source: am a junior enlisted infantryman.
I agree about 18-20 yo’s in general. My objection is toward calling enlisted soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen stupid as a group in comparison to civilians and college students in the same age group. I was an Air Force brat and I’ve met so many intelligent airmen, and so many stupid students when I was in college. It really bothers me when people act like their degree automatically makes them smarter than a gi who chose a different path or simply couldn’t afford college. Elitist arrogance.
At this point i think we should not allow enlisted soldiers in foreign bases on developed countries.
Got downvoted to hell when i suggested otherwise to a guy saying "this is bound to happen".
Yeah bro, if you have extremely young soldiers enlisted with almost no requirements, yeah this is bound to happen. But this doesn't happen with all the militaries of developed countries in the world, for several reasons, but probably the main reason is that they are not sending 20yo enlisted soldiers everywhere like the US is doing.
> At this point i think we should not allow enlisted soldiers in foreign bases on developed countries.
The military doesn't have the recruitment numbers to make that kind of decision. Enlisted numbers are on a downward trend.
Then we should decrease the numbers in those countries.
I'm not talking about enlisted in the entire US military, i'm talking about american enlisted soldiers in Japan.
We could limit the number of enlisted soldiers if instead of having dozens of thousands of marines there, we have more fighters, bombers and destroyers, which, in my opinion are also more of a deterrent against China than US Marines.
If I were President, I'd call an assembly for all foreign-posted people where I explained that at least while I was the Commander in Chief, any crime against host nations' people would be punished to the absolute extent of the law. They'd be handled by us or by then, whomever was stricter.
Zero tolerance.
I know I’ll get downvoted for this, but the problem lies in the fact that you need a court of law to determine actual guilt. I think we can all agree sexual assault is one of the most horrendous crimes on the planet but acquiring enough evidence to prove guilt or that the victim wasn’t just retaliating over a breakup or hurt feelings is much more complicated. By enforcing a zero tolerance policy it puts a lot of power into the hands of people like Matt Araiza’s accuser. Prosecution of SA is a spectrum and pushing it too far to either end will only produce a net negative effect for society.
My dad was stationed in Okinawa around 1979 and he said the same thing about the people there. He said he was so amazed that the locals just left their bicycles unlocked in front of their homes because theft was so uncommon.
I’m 100% positive the overwhelming majority of young people serving overseas in our military are brighter, more disciplined and will go on to contribute far more to society than any of the self-righteous narcissists choosing to generalize and disrespect our youth that have chosen to serve our nation, regardless of the potential consequences to themselves.
These same people posting should do a little research, the Japanese committed horrific sex crimes during WWII, please Google “comfort women” to get a small glimpse into these atrocities.
The US envoy is correct in expressing regrets and there is no excuse for the actions of a few but these anecdotes of bad behavior are not representative of the majority of our military personnel who are nothing short of outstanding young people.
Not at all. It is spot on. We can see that even on reddit subs where even "progressive" Americans have majority while other half of Americans aren't even shy about it.
Also even US goverments' actions whether Democrat or Republican refute your claim and those goverments are elected by Americans whether Democrat or Republican. Both party' actions didn't change because most Americans didn't change either. In reality only small minority of Americans are really progressive who don't hide behind whataboutism for anything. Otherwise things would have changed but it didn't.
By the way it is not even just my worldview, majority of people in the world has even worse thoughts. Those who don't live in echo chambers and live in countries that have been suffering because of US know that. The subs you have been spending time along with your reply a strong sign that you also live in echo chamber.
Like your name, it’s just human nature. Every invading or occupying force in history has had this problem. At least we punish people who are caught now. It used to just be part of war, and still is for barbarians like hamas, etc. Unfortunately, not even capital punishment completely stops psychopaths from doing this kind of thing. I’m willing to bet that soldiers are more likely to be psychopaths than the general population. Also, rape is often a crime with no evidence besides the word of the victim so it’s hard to convict in a case of he said, she said.
What is the best way to apologize for a serious mistake in Japanese? For serious mistakes, a more formal and sincere apology is appropriate. Using “謝罪します” (Shazai shimasu) or “申し訳ありません” (Moushiwake arimasen) conveys a deeper sense of regret and responsibility.
So yes, regret is the proper word for their culture.
Yes, and this more often gets Japan in trouble than the US in the foreign media.
Here's a tip from an honest-to-god PhD-holding linguist who speaks Japanese: Languages don't actually translate, especially when they are from totally different language families.
Sometimes people ask me, "How do you say this in Japanese" and I reply, "You don't."
I'm not just talking about, "Well, there's not a direct translation;" I mean sometimes there is no such utterance because the social structure is different or something.
In Japan, you're apologizing all the time. You're lowering yourself all the time. You're elevating your interlocutor all the time. It's already an incredibly polite language. So when one tries to translate an official apology, the level of the apology doesn't come through.
Languages are different. Cultures are different. They *frequently* don't translate cleanly.
Spent 4 years in Japan as a military brat on an Air Force base back in the pre-internet days. My southern manners combined with military brat discipline were often considered and called out as rude.
I have no idea how much nicer / less rude I could have been, but the answer is apparently "a lot".
It’s not really a matter of polite or not. It’s just different social norms. I’ve seen Japanese immigrants do things that are considered rude here in the states.
This argument is moot because it’s a US envoy that allegedly expressed regret, not a Japanese person speaking Japanese.
Not that “their culture” would change the meaning of English words anyway.
Bruh do you know how to interact appropriately with people who aren’t yourself? It requires empathy and understanding of how they think and feel.
Goddamn.
Bruh are you asking me to understand that this guy thinks the American envoy spoke in Japanese despite it being clear from the article he didn’t? And have empathy with such a ridiculous line of thought? Did you even read the article.
You would rather I didn’t point it out? And we let this stupidity spiral even further?
Why would you then reply to a comment with what seems like a lack of empathy and understanding of how that persons thinks and feels?
Goddamn.
You mean the article that clearly states he was addressing "the individuals, their families and their community"? Do you have any examples of Japanese citizens finding this "a ridiculous line of thought", or are you just getting offended on their behalf?
Maybe you should enlist, then. It’s easy to sit back in your comfortable recliner and judge the people who actually give up 3 or more years of their life to serve our country.
So you're supportive of the rapists & sex offenders then? Sorry no interest in serving alongside rapists.
Why don't you give them accommodations in your home and near your kids when they come back then?
Someone said America is not sending their best in response to an article about rapist military men from America. It's these people that are getting the judgement. Are you defending them?
The problem that Okinawa’s residents have is that although the US servicemen are arrested or attempted to be arrested by Japanese lawmen, the US doesn’t allow them to hold trial by the Japanese court. They are treated as though they have diplomatic immunity in their eyes as they never see a day in court. Victims and families are left with never seeing closure for the crimes committed by these soldiers.
The US armed forces need to allow troops committing crimes outside of US to be held liable to the laws they break in each country they commit their crimes. Any criminal proceedings that the US Armed Forces wishes to charge their servicemen for committing crimes while in service should be done after the local courts have finish processing and charging them accordingly by trial.
Even if they are tried by the Japanese court US pressured Japan to get them back many times and released them when they got criminals from Japan like Ridge Alkonis.
Not allowing them to hold trial is absolutely not true. I interpret for many cases and a good chunk of them go to summary trials and even actual trials.
> the US doesn’t allow them to hold trial by the Japanese court.
That's fundamentally not true. 2 of my fellow soldiers were tried in Japanese courts for "crimes". One of those being not a crime in 99% of other places, being hit by a moped that was cutting lanes.
> being hit by a moped that was cutting lanes.
Oh god, they got him on that?
I just about got in trouble for that, too, but I didn't even hit the guy. I was going straight and he was turning right at an intersection (in Japan, we drive on the left; if your country drives on the right, just think of making a left turn—you have to cross traffic to do it). We had a green light. I had right of way.
Stupid kid turned in front of me, realized his mistake (he thought I was turning right because I'd changed to the right lane just before the intersection and didn't notice that my blinker wasn't still on and I wasn't slowing), slammed on the brakes, hit some gravel, and dumped his bike right in front of me. Time slowed to a crawl as I broke hard and swerved into the left lane to miss him. The last thing I saw was his terrified face locking eyes with me as his head disappeared beneath the line of my hood.
I didn't hit him. I must have missed him by centimeters.
I pulled over on the other side of the intersection and ran back to make sure he was okay, and help him out of the street.
*And then that fucker called the cops on me, saying I'd almost hit him.* Got taken away in an ambulance for his scraped leg that would have been fine if he hadn't been wearing basketball shorts and *fucking Crocs* while he illegally listened to music on headphones and didn't even have his helmet strapped on. He was lucky he just had road rash.
The police came and got my statement. They kept asking me what percentage of the blame was mine; I kept saying "*ZERO!* He made an improper right turn, had a single-vehicle accident in the intersection, scared the crap out of me, and then I came back to help him, and now you're here for some reason! I could have just kept going! This doesn't even have anything to do with me!"
That's where I found I was wrong after doing some Googling.
In Japan, the larger vehicle *is responsible by default.* It doesn't matter what stupid bullshit some kid or geriatric does on their scooter or even 1000cc motorbike. The smaller vehicle is always the victim. I was driving a car; he was riding a scooter; I was liable for his injuries *even though I didn't hit him.* The argument is that he wouldn't have dumped his bike if I had not been on the road at the same time.
My wife (Japanese) was crying, because she knew this could go really badly for me.
The accident reconstructionists called me back down to the intersection the next day to walk them through the "accident," walking us up and down the stretch of road, asking me where I was when I hit the brakes, where I was when I swerved, whether my ABS turned on, how many seconds between braking and swerving... I basically refused to answer because I could see they were trying to back-of-the-napkin my speed to build a case against me (I was way over the limit—like everyone on that stretch of road). They kept asking me to think hard and remember. I said, "Human memory doesn't work like that. Human memory is not a record; it's a narrative. If I force myself to tell you a place, it will just be a story I'm making up now. Do you want a lie, or do you want the truth? The truth is that I don't remember. I acted automatically because I've been driving since I was 16 years old. You would agree, wouldn't you, that a good driver can act automatically when danger arises, without thinking about it? Well, that's what happened. I can't tell you anything else, and anything else I would say would be conjecture, and this is far too important for that."
To his credit, he started laughing, because what's he going to say? He knows the jig is up.
So they got no chalk marks that day.
About the next day I got another call from the cops. The kid was declining to press charges. The cop said, "After we pointed out to him that he had made an improper left turn, was wearing inappropriate footwear, was listening to music with earbuds, and reportedly was not really wearing his helmet, all with a brand-new license with no points to spare, he and his parents asked us to destroy the record of this incident and pretend it never happened, which we thought was a good idea for all involved. Have a nice day."
And *that* is how things work with the police in Japan, and why the conviction rate is so high. Usually the cops just mediate most problems away and destroy the record (I think they told me it'd be a year before they actually destroyed it) and let society continue to function normally.
I suspect your buddy made some mistakes in dealing with the police, or (perhaps more likely) the moped driver wanted to stick it to a US serviceman and refused to back down.
I'm sorry that happened to him. A lot of the traffic rules here are antiquated. I'm sometimes really scared of driving with so many old people around. Demented old people wander in the street, but if you hit one, you go to jail. I drive slowly here!
Not sure how it works in Japan but I’m stationed in Germany. I have an American driver’s license that I took to a German office, and after they were satisfied with my German road test scores they cut me a special German license for military members stationed here. I’m sure there’s a similar process in Japan.
If you read this and ever plan to drive on a german AUTOBAHN please keep in mind to always keep on the right lane if you are not actively overtaking another vehicle. Also under no circumstances EVER overtake a car on the right lane on the AUTOBAHN.
You might find yourself other drivers to not adhere to these rules because they are foreigners or entitled or just never learned this change of driving rules (15 years ago) but its still the law and also much safer overall.
thanks for listening to my unprompted ted talk.
That is the law here in most states in the US as well, but absolutely nobody knows or cares. I actually much prefer driving on the autobahn to driving on most highways here in the US. People (not all, I've encountered assholes on the autobahn too, but most) are much better behaved on European roads.
You have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about. Then again your comment looks like it was written by GPT2 so, I guess there’s nobody to really direct this at. I personally know US military members who absofuckinglutely were prosecuted by Japanese authorities and were incarcerated in Japan. Delete this bot, it’s defective.
Of course, but put yourself in their place. If someone raped or murdered your friend or family and suddenly they are confined in the base and later hear that they’re no longer in the country. How would you feel? Meanwhile other US troops are freely roaming around your home?
But that wasn’t the case at all in this instance, they gave the case to Japanese prosecutors and they decided to let the Americans deal with it, this guys is a POS and a disgrace for the U.S. and the A.F. But if you want a party to be mad at for how it was handled look at the Japanese.
There are many agreements made between the Japanese Government and the US that Okinawa hates and has wanted the base moved out of Okinawa over. They feel that they’re getting the short end of the stick.
I think the US requires similar treaties with all countries it has bases in. I think civil cases and cases not covered by the military law can be handled by the local authorities and courts but violations that fall under the military law have to be tried in the US military courts.
My country recently had to make such agreement. While in principle I don't like this system in practice the US military law is stricter than laws in my own country so I don't mind so much the US military courts handling servicemen related crimes.
They do feel that way, and they're wrong.
They have virtually no economy without those bases. The bases are down there because it's out of the way. It's a tropical hinterland. They are also great places for bases, and—this is critical to remember—*the US military is the Japanese military.* The JSDF are too small to act as a deterrent. The Joint Security Treaty between Japan and the US is mutually beneficial (Do you hear that, Trump? We're there because *it helps us.* They *let* us be there because *it helps them.* No one is getting ripped off!!!).
So every once in a while a PM goes down to Okinawa and pretends to care that they don't like having a bunch of wild young foreign men acting like asshats (on occasion) on their island, but it's all a show. That's where the bases are, and that's where they're going to remain, because that's the best place for them.
As an airman that was stationed there a couple of years ago I felt the short end of the stick, I didn’t want to be stationed in a place as racist as Okinawa. Guess there’s plenty of people mad about us being there.
Yeah, Okinawan people mad US military for terrorising Okinawan people with rapes, assaults etc. and destroying nature and ruining the local culture and protecting its criminal military personel as it happened so many times for decades which doesn't make Okinawan people racist because them being mad at US is rightfull and anyone with empathy would understand that but I guess empathy isn't very common.
They are mad at central goverment for covering US. Okinawan people aren't exactly Japanese, majority of them want both US and Japan gone. You sound biased because of serving there. It is Okinawa feel the short end of the stick for more than half century because of US military.
When I just stated problems backed by sources about this on other posts, jingoistic Americans blamed me for being CCP agent etc. but it is just tonedeaf behavior, comments and whataboutism of local crimes etc. doesn't help this situation.
If openminded people want to read some examples and more can be found with quick search:
http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-world/hundreds-in-us-military-guilty-of-sex-crimes-in-japan-got-slap-on-wrist-140212?news=852414
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/09/sexual-assaults-us-military-japan-prison-unlikely
https://theintercept.com/2021/10/03/okinawa-sexual-crimes-us-military/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridge_Alkonis#Transfer_to_United_States_custody_and_unconditional_release
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343682053_PFAS_Contamination_from_US_Military_Facilities_in_Mainland_Japan_and_Okinawa
https://thediplomat.com/2020/10/us-military-bases-are-poisoning-okinawa/
So I’m not gonna make sense of this wall of post, all I said was my personal experience of Okinawans being racist as shit while I was over there. Okinawans definitely treated black people way differently than they treated white people.
You blaming Okinawan people for being racist while your comments having racist undertone without you realizing it is ironic. Of course you wouldn't accept that.
Also my "wall of post" was related to your reply about why them being mad to US military so it makes sense.
The problem is that a few a*holes make it look bad for the whole as many things in life. Okinawa’s economy no doubt relies heavily on the base yet they want them gone. Unlike the rest of Japan where they have a better perspective towards Americans. It’s also Japan’s problem as they should be appropriately compensating victims and their families because the US is there as part of Japan’s agreements and not solely for Okinawa.
Not necessarily. I have yet to hear a Japanese person speak of themselves in such ways. They do pride their products and inventions but for the most part, Japanese are much more welcoming to foreigners than most other countries I have been to. No one I have ever encountered has ever said anything about their country or their culture being superior.
I speak Japanese, English, and Spanish natively and have purposely spoken broken Japanese in Japan when I’ve gotten lost to see if they are helpful and have never been let down. I’ve done the same in Spanish in several central and South American countries and have gotten much more mixed treatment. I’m Asian and have been treated with much more racism in America. It often happens more frequently in larger towns and cities than in smaller towns. (I drove a rig for a little because I wanted to see the US).
Have you ever considered the possibility that Asians experience more discrimination in the West and Westerners experience more discrimination in the east.
There are countless stories of foreigners not being allowed entrance in Japan.
Yes, there are countless stories... And yet, it has happened to me **zero times in 25 years here.** Never. Not once.
I've never even seen one of these signs that are supposedly all over the place here.
I've lived in big cities and little towns. I've lived in the 'burbs. Literally *never* have I *ever* been denied entry *to anything.*
And neither has any other expat I know.
Here are my "racist Japanese" stories. Ready?
1. A drunk, possibly homeless man accosted me on a train 25 years ago, demanding to know if I paid taxes. I was a foreign exchange student with no job, so... no.
2. A drunk guy *who had just been released from prison that day* called me "gaijin" after hurling abuse and sexual comments at everyone in the train car for the entire time we were on the train, and it looked like he'd been at it for a long time. He was eating a pile of obviously stolen bento boxes. I told him to be quiet. He squared up with me. And then 3 plainclothes cops jumped him and arrested him and frog-marched him off to the station. I think they were just waiting for him to do something arrestable, and I kinda think *he* was waiting to be arrested. Part of his tirade was about how he'd just been released from jail and had nowhere to go.
3. A young business man just basically tried to start shit with me on a packed train. I think he was looking for someone to bully, and thought he could get away with it with a foreigner, but that foreigner spoke fluent Japanese and told him he was being rude and reminded him that everyone was uncomfortable, but we all just grin and bear it. He was shocked and tried to still look like a tough guy as he turned away. He *ran away* at the next stop.
That's it. Three dumbasses on trains, two of them drunk, the last one just doing what all the signs tell you not to do: Lose your cool in packed trains. I honestly think that the only one who was actually racist was the last guy. The first drunk was just drunk. The second one was saying anything mean that he could think of to anyone on the train, and "gaijin" is the obvious one for me.
Seriously, dude: No. Japan is laid back and very welcoming.
My bad. If it hasn’t happened to you then it doesn’t exist. All those people are liars. Good to know.
Let’s see if I can find some liars.
[one](https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/s/4AYtjQ1CNY)
There are signs that say “no gaijin” on restaurants and bars. Means no foreigners, so I feel as though that might be a good indicator of what some Japanese people are about.
Honestly, I'd be pretty leery of allowing anyone to be tried in a Japanese court. A conviction rate over 99.8% doesn't exactly scream 'due process' to me.
They should be tried by a US military court.
The reason for the 99% conviction rate is the low prosecution rate, less than 50%. Japan does not prosecute unless there is evidence to win 100% of the cases in court.
So when the prosecution does prosecute, the evidence is pretty much ready. There is almost no element of winning in court.
And U.S. military sex crimes should be tried in Japan and kept in Japanese prisons.
Shame on you.
How about sending them to prisom. Instead of fleeing them from said country and let them scotfree in USA or elsewhere??? Huhu such a weird shit to allow local justice take its course right?
Alleged? Given the prevalence of sexual assault in the military, issues like this involving the locals aren't exactly unexpected. But you can't train this away. All you can do is cull the herd.
When I was there, if the local police picked you up for something like this, they would take their dear sweet time alerting the US authorities (the max time SOFA allowed) Especially if the victim was a kid. This is THE one time when I'm OK with "stop resisting" beat downs.
I think the presumption of guilt in the Japanese justice system is a problem, but if a military court finds them guilty, they should be remanded to local custody. What should not, but often does, happen in these cases is that they're on the next flight off island.
But in other cases, like criminal prosecution in auto accidents, it's a slippery slope. And there is a lot of "that depends." Where do you draw the line.
Okinawa hosts 30,000 US military and DoD civilian personnel. If Okinawa hosted the same personnel for decades, then the assaulters would get weeded out, and crime rates would go down.
But that’s not how the US military works. It’s not a corporation like IBM with long standing employees in the same office.
The US military cycles in new large groups of young men and women every single year. So it’s a new risk every single year of a few assaulters in the new groups.
Start DD them for their actions. I get we invested time and money on their recruitment but making the punishment extreme should start getting others to think
Blanket PowerPoint and curfews don’t do shit but aggravate them further
[удалено]
>It's a huge military base full of 18 year olds to 20 somethings. A lot of them are assholes who constantly need to have a dick measuring contest with Xbox's in their dorm rooms. And if we're being real, it's not like enlisted are the sharpest tools.
Hey now. They’d be really upset at this if they could read it
They're not the tastiest crayons in the box?
So I believe the enlistment age needs to be raised to 21 so their brains will be mostly developed to k ow what they signed up for.
There is a reason they want under developed brains, they are still dumb enough to think they are invincible.
Honestly, I think having the bravery to defend your country with your life is more impressive than an engineer working in a cushy office, guarded by the guys that you look down on.
Yeah they should all be offered one nice japanese girl to rape to award them for their sacrifice
[удалено]
Real men don't rape foreign locals. That's what this is about - not whatever flag-bait garbage you're trying to portray.
I agree. I was responding to people saying that enlisted soldiers in general aren’t intelligent
Most of them aren’t college educated so he’s not entirely wrong.
The flaw with your comment is that a college degree in the states often has more to do with a person’s socioeconomic situation than their intelligence. I’ve met some really dumb people with degrees. Especially non stem degrees. A lot of people unfamiliar with the military don’t understand the asvab and how it affects the career field of the enlisted person. Military technical training can be more useful, effective, and challenging than college classes. You simply can’t assume the intelligence of someone based on whether they went to college or not.
College education is the barometer used to gauge a demographic’s intelligence. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule but that certainly does not apply to 18-20 year olds.
No it’s not. Many college majors are literally a scam. If you’re talking about stem fields, then I agree
Yes it is. Its very much a barometer in political polling for example. The major is irrelevant. College has the common-core’s as a requirement for graduation which includes language arts, public speaking, critical thinking, basic math etc.
I literally just came from a 6 deployment (as a civilian) where I visited multiple bases to provide engineering services but sure man.
How does that qualify you to insult an entire group of (currently) a million men and women. Both of my parents were enlisted in the Air Force for 20 years, so I’ve probably spent at least as much time around airmen and soldiers as you. Being an engineer doesn’t make you smart, it makes you specialized. It takes a certain personality type to go clearing houses with machine guns. It doesn’t make them stupid. It means they have an aptitude for that kind of job. My degree is in a stem field as well, and I’ve met plenty of arrogant people who think their degree makes them smarter than other people. Generalization of a million people because of your small personal experience is not smart, no matter what you say. A lot of enlisted people go to college after the military.
No, it’s not really that broad of a stroke. 18-20 years are already impulsive and kind of dumb. Junior enlisted are definitely a collective of morons. Source: am a junior enlisted infantryman.
I agree about 18-20 yo’s in general. My objection is toward calling enlisted soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen stupid as a group in comparison to civilians and college students in the same age group. I was an Air Force brat and I’ve met so many intelligent airmen, and so many stupid students when I was in college. It really bothers me when people act like their degree automatically makes them smarter than a gi who chose a different path or simply couldn’t afford college. Elitist arrogance.
At this point i think we should not allow enlisted soldiers in foreign bases on developed countries. Got downvoted to hell when i suggested otherwise to a guy saying "this is bound to happen". Yeah bro, if you have extremely young soldiers enlisted with almost no requirements, yeah this is bound to happen. But this doesn't happen with all the militaries of developed countries in the world, for several reasons, but probably the main reason is that they are not sending 20yo enlisted soldiers everywhere like the US is doing.
> At this point i think we should not allow enlisted soldiers in foreign bases on developed countries. The military doesn't have the recruitment numbers to make that kind of decision. Enlisted numbers are on a downward trend.
Then we should decrease the numbers in those countries. I'm not talking about enlisted in the entire US military, i'm talking about american enlisted soldiers in Japan. We could limit the number of enlisted soldiers if instead of having dozens of thousands of marines there, we have more fighters, bombers and destroyers, which, in my opinion are also more of a deterrent against China than US Marines.
If I were President, I'd call an assembly for all foreign-posted people where I explained that at least while I was the Commander in Chief, any crime against host nations' people would be punished to the absolute extent of the law. They'd be handled by us or by then, whomever was stricter. Zero tolerance.
Does this mean that the Commander in Chief must lead by example and not actually be accused of rape?
3/5 of the last presidents would no longer qualify.
You mean joe Biden?
Hush. Grown ups are talking.
Right, I’m sure that would be right up at the top of the priority list for a president 🤣🤣🤣
I know I’ll get downvoted for this, but the problem lies in the fact that you need a court of law to determine actual guilt. I think we can all agree sexual assault is one of the most horrendous crimes on the planet but acquiring enough evidence to prove guilt or that the victim wasn’t just retaliating over a breakup or hurt feelings is much more complicated. By enforcing a zero tolerance policy it puts a lot of power into the hands of people like Matt Araiza’s accuser. Prosecution of SA is a spectrum and pushing it too far to either end will only produce a net negative effect for society.
My dad was stationed in Okinawa around 1979 and he said the same thing about the people there. He said he was so amazed that the locals just left their bicycles unlocked in front of their homes because theft was so uncommon.
I’m 100% positive the overwhelming majority of young people serving overseas in our military are brighter, more disciplined and will go on to contribute far more to society than any of the self-righteous narcissists choosing to generalize and disrespect our youth that have chosen to serve our nation, regardless of the potential consequences to themselves. These same people posting should do a little research, the Japanese committed horrific sex crimes during WWII, please Google “comfort women” to get a small glimpse into these atrocities. The US envoy is correct in expressing regrets and there is no excuse for the actions of a few but these anecdotes of bad behavior are not representative of the majority of our military personnel who are nothing short of outstanding young people.
You are a rare American who is not being jingoistic and not using whataboutism about this systematic problem in US military.
Your worldview on Americans is 20 years out of date at this point.
Not at all. It is spot on. We can see that even on reddit subs where even "progressive" Americans have majority while other half of Americans aren't even shy about it. Also even US goverments' actions whether Democrat or Republican refute your claim and those goverments are elected by Americans whether Democrat or Republican. Both party' actions didn't change because most Americans didn't change either. In reality only small minority of Americans are really progressive who don't hide behind whataboutism for anything. Otherwise things would have changed but it didn't. By the way it is not even just my worldview, majority of people in the world has even worse thoughts. Those who don't live in echo chambers and live in countries that have been suffering because of US know that. The subs you have been spending time along with your reply a strong sign that you also live in echo chamber.
You have all the worldly experience of someone who stills worries about 2nd period.
You should spend less time on reddit.
Which Americans? You know there’s 400 million of us, right?
Like your name, it’s just human nature. Every invading or occupying force in history has had this problem. At least we punish people who are caught now. It used to just be part of war, and still is for barbarians like hamas, etc. Unfortunately, not even capital punishment completely stops psychopaths from doing this kind of thing. I’m willing to bet that soldiers are more likely to be psychopaths than the general population. Also, rape is often a crime with no evidence besides the word of the victim so it’s hard to convict in a case of he said, she said.
Bro is really just trying to say that 18-20 year old Americans are just rapists
[удалено]
[удалено]
This wouldn’t have happened if he did his cyber awareness training
Regret?
What is the best way to apologize for a serious mistake in Japanese? For serious mistakes, a more formal and sincere apology is appropriate. Using “謝罪します” (Shazai shimasu) or “申し訳ありません” (Moushiwake arimasen) conveys a deeper sense of regret and responsibility. So yes, regret is the proper word for their culture.
Yes, and this more often gets Japan in trouble than the US in the foreign media. Here's a tip from an honest-to-god PhD-holding linguist who speaks Japanese: Languages don't actually translate, especially when they are from totally different language families. Sometimes people ask me, "How do you say this in Japanese" and I reply, "You don't." I'm not just talking about, "Well, there's not a direct translation;" I mean sometimes there is no such utterance because the social structure is different or something. In Japan, you're apologizing all the time. You're lowering yourself all the time. You're elevating your interlocutor all the time. It's already an incredibly polite language. So when one tries to translate an official apology, the level of the apology doesn't come through. Languages are different. Cultures are different. They *frequently* don't translate cleanly.
Spent 4 years in Japan as a military brat on an Air Force base back in the pre-internet days. My southern manners combined with military brat discipline were often considered and called out as rude. I have no idea how much nicer / less rude I could have been, but the answer is apparently "a lot".
It’s not really a matter of polite or not. It’s just different social norms. I’ve seen Japanese immigrants do things that are considered rude here in the states.
This argument is moot because it’s a US envoy that allegedly expressed regret, not a Japanese person speaking Japanese. Not that “their culture” would change the meaning of English words anyway.
Bruh do you know how to interact appropriately with people who aren’t yourself? It requires empathy and understanding of how they think and feel. Goddamn.
Well are they apologizing for Japan or for reddit browsers?
Bruh are you asking me to understand that this guy thinks the American envoy spoke in Japanese despite it being clear from the article he didn’t? And have empathy with such a ridiculous line of thought? Did you even read the article. You would rather I didn’t point it out? And we let this stupidity spiral even further? Why would you then reply to a comment with what seems like a lack of empathy and understanding of how that persons thinks and feels? Goddamn.
You mean the article that clearly states he was addressing "the individuals, their families and their community"? Do you have any examples of Japanese citizens finding this "a ridiculous line of thought", or are you just getting offended on their behalf?
Brother of thoughts, cousin of prayers.
America's not sending their best
At least not to this base. Their best are currently... occupied elsewhere.
Maybe you should enlist, then. It’s easy to sit back in your comfortable recliner and judge the people who actually give up 3 or more years of their life to serve our country.
So you're supportive of the rapists & sex offenders then? Sorry no interest in serving alongside rapists. Why don't you give them accommodations in your home and near your kids when they come back then?
You should work on reading comprehension.
Someone said America is not sending their best in response to an article about rapist military men from America. It's these people that are getting the judgement. Are you defending them?
The problem that Okinawa’s residents have is that although the US servicemen are arrested or attempted to be arrested by Japanese lawmen, the US doesn’t allow them to hold trial by the Japanese court. They are treated as though they have diplomatic immunity in their eyes as they never see a day in court. Victims and families are left with never seeing closure for the crimes committed by these soldiers. The US armed forces need to allow troops committing crimes outside of US to be held liable to the laws they break in each country they commit their crimes. Any criminal proceedings that the US Armed Forces wishes to charge their servicemen for committing crimes while in service should be done after the local courts have finish processing and charging them accordingly by trial.
Even if they are tried by the Japanese court US pressured Japan to get them back many times and released them when they got criminals from Japan like Ridge Alkonis.
Not allowing them to hold trial is absolutely not true. I interpret for many cases and a good chunk of them go to summary trials and even actual trials.
> the US doesn’t allow them to hold trial by the Japanese court. That's fundamentally not true. 2 of my fellow soldiers were tried in Japanese courts for "crimes". One of those being not a crime in 99% of other places, being hit by a moped that was cutting lanes.
> being hit by a moped that was cutting lanes. Oh god, they got him on that? I just about got in trouble for that, too, but I didn't even hit the guy. I was going straight and he was turning right at an intersection (in Japan, we drive on the left; if your country drives on the right, just think of making a left turn—you have to cross traffic to do it). We had a green light. I had right of way. Stupid kid turned in front of me, realized his mistake (he thought I was turning right because I'd changed to the right lane just before the intersection and didn't notice that my blinker wasn't still on and I wasn't slowing), slammed on the brakes, hit some gravel, and dumped his bike right in front of me. Time slowed to a crawl as I broke hard and swerved into the left lane to miss him. The last thing I saw was his terrified face locking eyes with me as his head disappeared beneath the line of my hood. I didn't hit him. I must have missed him by centimeters. I pulled over on the other side of the intersection and ran back to make sure he was okay, and help him out of the street. *And then that fucker called the cops on me, saying I'd almost hit him.* Got taken away in an ambulance for his scraped leg that would have been fine if he hadn't been wearing basketball shorts and *fucking Crocs* while he illegally listened to music on headphones and didn't even have his helmet strapped on. He was lucky he just had road rash. The police came and got my statement. They kept asking me what percentage of the blame was mine; I kept saying "*ZERO!* He made an improper right turn, had a single-vehicle accident in the intersection, scared the crap out of me, and then I came back to help him, and now you're here for some reason! I could have just kept going! This doesn't even have anything to do with me!" That's where I found I was wrong after doing some Googling. In Japan, the larger vehicle *is responsible by default.* It doesn't matter what stupid bullshit some kid or geriatric does on their scooter or even 1000cc motorbike. The smaller vehicle is always the victim. I was driving a car; he was riding a scooter; I was liable for his injuries *even though I didn't hit him.* The argument is that he wouldn't have dumped his bike if I had not been on the road at the same time. My wife (Japanese) was crying, because she knew this could go really badly for me. The accident reconstructionists called me back down to the intersection the next day to walk them through the "accident," walking us up and down the stretch of road, asking me where I was when I hit the brakes, where I was when I swerved, whether my ABS turned on, how many seconds between braking and swerving... I basically refused to answer because I could see they were trying to back-of-the-napkin my speed to build a case against me (I was way over the limit—like everyone on that stretch of road). They kept asking me to think hard and remember. I said, "Human memory doesn't work like that. Human memory is not a record; it's a narrative. If I force myself to tell you a place, it will just be a story I'm making up now. Do you want a lie, or do you want the truth? The truth is that I don't remember. I acted automatically because I've been driving since I was 16 years old. You would agree, wouldn't you, that a good driver can act automatically when danger arises, without thinking about it? Well, that's what happened. I can't tell you anything else, and anything else I would say would be conjecture, and this is far too important for that." To his credit, he started laughing, because what's he going to say? He knows the jig is up. So they got no chalk marks that day. About the next day I got another call from the cops. The kid was declining to press charges. The cop said, "After we pointed out to him that he had made an improper left turn, was wearing inappropriate footwear, was listening to music with earbuds, and reportedly was not really wearing his helmet, all with a brand-new license with no points to spare, he and his parents asked us to destroy the record of this incident and pretend it never happened, which we thought was a good idea for all involved. Have a nice day." And *that* is how things work with the police in Japan, and why the conviction rate is so high. Usually the cops just mediate most problems away and destroy the record (I think they told me it'd be a year before they actually destroyed it) and let society continue to function normally. I suspect your buddy made some mistakes in dealing with the police, or (perhaps more likely) the moped driver wanted to stick it to a US serviceman and refused to back down. I'm sorry that happened to him. A lot of the traffic rules here are antiquated. I'm sometimes really scared of driving with so many old people around. Demented old people wander in the street, but if you hit one, you go to jail. I drive slowly here!
Glad you handled it this well, thanks for sharing.
The moped rider in this instance put his head through the windshield. AFAIK no serious injuries, since he was wearing a helmet.
Did he have a Japanese drivers license? Lol
Not sure how it works in Japan but I’m stationed in Germany. I have an American driver’s license that I took to a German office, and after they were satisfied with my German road test scores they cut me a special German license for military members stationed here. I’m sure there’s a similar process in Japan.
If you read this and ever plan to drive on a german AUTOBAHN please keep in mind to always keep on the right lane if you are not actively overtaking another vehicle. Also under no circumstances EVER overtake a car on the right lane on the AUTOBAHN. You might find yourself other drivers to not adhere to these rules because they are foreigners or entitled or just never learned this change of driving rules (15 years ago) but its still the law and also much safer overall. thanks for listening to my unprompted ted talk.
That is the law here in most states in the US as well, but absolutely nobody knows or cares. I actually much prefer driving on the autobahn to driving on most highways here in the US. People (not all, I've encountered assholes on the autobahn too, but most) are much better behaved on European roads.
Yeah man, like I said, we have to pass a test to get the license
You can't drive in Japan without one.
I don’t know man, pretty sure it is illegal in most countries to be hit by a moped while raping someone.
You have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about. Then again your comment looks like it was written by GPT2 so, I guess there’s nobody to really direct this at. I personally know US military members who absofuckinglutely were prosecuted by Japanese authorities and were incarcerated in Japan. Delete this bot, it’s defective.
So you know that military troops are treated with the laws of the home country right?
Of course, but put yourself in their place. If someone raped or murdered your friend or family and suddenly they are confined in the base and later hear that they’re no longer in the country. How would you feel? Meanwhile other US troops are freely roaming around your home?
But that wasn’t the case at all in this instance, they gave the case to Japanese prosecutors and they decided to let the Americans deal with it, this guys is a POS and a disgrace for the U.S. and the A.F. But if you want a party to be mad at for how it was handled look at the Japanese.
There are many agreements made between the Japanese Government and the US that Okinawa hates and has wanted the base moved out of Okinawa over. They feel that they’re getting the short end of the stick.
I think the US requires similar treaties with all countries it has bases in. I think civil cases and cases not covered by the military law can be handled by the local authorities and courts but violations that fall under the military law have to be tried in the US military courts. My country recently had to make such agreement. While in principle I don't like this system in practice the US military law is stricter than laws in my own country so I don't mind so much the US military courts handling servicemen related crimes.
They do feel that way, and they're wrong. They have virtually no economy without those bases. The bases are down there because it's out of the way. It's a tropical hinterland. They are also great places for bases, and—this is critical to remember—*the US military is the Japanese military.* The JSDF are too small to act as a deterrent. The Joint Security Treaty between Japan and the US is mutually beneficial (Do you hear that, Trump? We're there because *it helps us.* They *let* us be there because *it helps them.* No one is getting ripped off!!!). So every once in a while a PM goes down to Okinawa and pretends to care that they don't like having a bunch of wild young foreign men acting like asshats (on occasion) on their island, but it's all a show. That's where the bases are, and that's where they're going to remain, because that's the best place for them.
As an airman that was stationed there a couple of years ago I felt the short end of the stick, I didn’t want to be stationed in a place as racist as Okinawa. Guess there’s plenty of people mad about us being there.
Yeah, Okinawan people mad US military for terrorising Okinawan people with rapes, assaults etc. and destroying nature and ruining the local culture and protecting its criminal military personel as it happened so many times for decades which doesn't make Okinawan people racist because them being mad at US is rightfull and anyone with empathy would understand that but I guess empathy isn't very common. They are mad at central goverment for covering US. Okinawan people aren't exactly Japanese, majority of them want both US and Japan gone. You sound biased because of serving there. It is Okinawa feel the short end of the stick for more than half century because of US military. When I just stated problems backed by sources about this on other posts, jingoistic Americans blamed me for being CCP agent etc. but it is just tonedeaf behavior, comments and whataboutism of local crimes etc. doesn't help this situation. If openminded people want to read some examples and more can be found with quick search: http://www.allgov.com/news/us-and-the-world/hundreds-in-us-military-guilty-of-sex-crimes-in-japan-got-slap-on-wrist-140212?news=852414 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/09/sexual-assaults-us-military-japan-prison-unlikely https://theintercept.com/2021/10/03/okinawa-sexual-crimes-us-military/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridge_Alkonis#Transfer_to_United_States_custody_and_unconditional_release https://www.researchgate.net/publication/343682053_PFAS_Contamination_from_US_Military_Facilities_in_Mainland_Japan_and_Okinawa https://thediplomat.com/2020/10/us-military-bases-are-poisoning-okinawa/
So I’m not gonna make sense of this wall of post, all I said was my personal experience of Okinawans being racist as shit while I was over there. Okinawans definitely treated black people way differently than they treated white people.
You blaming Okinawan people for being racist while your comments having racist undertone without you realizing it is ironic. Of course you wouldn't accept that. Also my "wall of post" was related to your reply about why them being mad to US military so it makes sense.
The problem is that a few a*holes make it look bad for the whole as many things in life. Okinawa’s economy no doubt relies heavily on the base yet they want them gone. Unlike the rest of Japan where they have a better perspective towards Americans. It’s also Japan’s problem as they should be appropriately compensating victims and their families because the US is there as part of Japan’s agreements and not solely for Okinawa.
Yeah, Japan as usual thinks they're better than anyone else and the way they deal with things is absolute
I know right? How dare Japanese people think they’re too good to be raped lol
Not necessarily. I have yet to hear a Japanese person speak of themselves in such ways. They do pride their products and inventions but for the most part, Japanese are much more welcoming to foreigners than most other countries I have been to. No one I have ever encountered has ever said anything about their country or their culture being superior. I speak Japanese, English, and Spanish natively and have purposely spoken broken Japanese in Japan when I’ve gotten lost to see if they are helpful and have never been let down. I’ve done the same in Spanish in several central and South American countries and have gotten much more mixed treatment. I’m Asian and have been treated with much more racism in America. It often happens more frequently in larger towns and cities than in smaller towns. (I drove a rig for a little because I wanted to see the US).
Have you ever considered the possibility that Asians experience more discrimination in the West and Westerners experience more discrimination in the east. There are countless stories of foreigners not being allowed entrance in Japan.
Yes, there are countless stories... And yet, it has happened to me **zero times in 25 years here.** Never. Not once. I've never even seen one of these signs that are supposedly all over the place here. I've lived in big cities and little towns. I've lived in the 'burbs. Literally *never* have I *ever* been denied entry *to anything.* And neither has any other expat I know. Here are my "racist Japanese" stories. Ready? 1. A drunk, possibly homeless man accosted me on a train 25 years ago, demanding to know if I paid taxes. I was a foreign exchange student with no job, so... no. 2. A drunk guy *who had just been released from prison that day* called me "gaijin" after hurling abuse and sexual comments at everyone in the train car for the entire time we were on the train, and it looked like he'd been at it for a long time. He was eating a pile of obviously stolen bento boxes. I told him to be quiet. He squared up with me. And then 3 plainclothes cops jumped him and arrested him and frog-marched him off to the station. I think they were just waiting for him to do something arrestable, and I kinda think *he* was waiting to be arrested. Part of his tirade was about how he'd just been released from jail and had nowhere to go. 3. A young business man just basically tried to start shit with me on a packed train. I think he was looking for someone to bully, and thought he could get away with it with a foreigner, but that foreigner spoke fluent Japanese and told him he was being rude and reminded him that everyone was uncomfortable, but we all just grin and bear it. He was shocked and tried to still look like a tough guy as he turned away. He *ran away* at the next stop. That's it. Three dumbasses on trains, two of them drunk, the last one just doing what all the signs tell you not to do: Lose your cool in packed trains. I honestly think that the only one who was actually racist was the last guy. The first drunk was just drunk. The second one was saying anything mean that he could think of to anyone on the train, and "gaijin" is the obvious one for me. Seriously, dude: No. Japan is laid back and very welcoming.
My bad. If it hasn’t happened to you then it doesn’t exist. All those people are liars. Good to know. Let’s see if I can find some liars. [one](https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/s/4AYtjQ1CNY)
There are signs that say “no gaijin” on restaurants and bars. Means no foreigners, so I feel as though that might be a good indicator of what some Japanese people are about.
Exactly what I remembered when I was writing it
Honestly, I'd be pretty leery of allowing anyone to be tried in a Japanese court. A conviction rate over 99.8% doesn't exactly scream 'due process' to me. They should be tried by a US military court.
The reason for the 99% conviction rate is the low prosecution rate, less than 50%. Japan does not prosecute unless there is evidence to win 100% of the cases in court. So when the prosecution does prosecute, the evidence is pretty much ready. There is almost no element of winning in court. And U.S. military sex crimes should be tried in Japan and kept in Japanese prisons. Shame on you.
How about sending them to prisom. Instead of fleeing them from said country and let them scotfree in USA or elsewhere??? Huhu such a weird shit to allow local justice take its course right?
As a prior service member, most service members I have met aren't great people.
Alleged? Given the prevalence of sexual assault in the military, issues like this involving the locals aren't exactly unexpected. But you can't train this away. All you can do is cull the herd. When I was there, if the local police picked you up for something like this, they would take their dear sweet time alerting the US authorities (the max time SOFA allowed) Especially if the victim was a kid. This is THE one time when I'm OK with "stop resisting" beat downs. I think the presumption of guilt in the Japanese justice system is a problem, but if a military court finds them guilty, they should be remanded to local custody. What should not, but often does, happen in these cases is that they're on the next flight off island. But in other cases, like criminal prosecution in auto accidents, it's a slippery slope. And there is a lot of "that depends." Where do you draw the line.
Like, new ones or all the times starting from when America occupied Okinawa?
Okinawa hosts 30,000 US military and DoD civilian personnel. If Okinawa hosted the same personnel for decades, then the assaulters would get weeded out, and crime rates would go down. But that’s not how the US military works. It’s not a corporation like IBM with long standing employees in the same office. The US military cycles in new large groups of young men and women every single year. So it’s a new risk every single year of a few assaulters in the new groups.
It's absolutely beyond unacceptable no matter where shit like that happens.
What if we just didn’t have military bases in foreign countries? What if we spent our taxes on infrastructure, education, healthcare and housing?
What if the U.S. had the money to do both but we cut taxes for billionaires instead?
Start DD them for their actions. I get we invested time and money on their recruitment but making the punishment extreme should start getting others to think Blanket PowerPoint and curfews don’t do shit but aggravate them further
its fckn the Troops on Okinawa, not Yakota ABS or N/Yokosuka, idiots! 😡💯
"alleged"
Oh we're back to shitting on the military for sexual assault while ignoring the pandemic that is occuring in our colleges and universities.