Most specs will be running the diurna ring if it doesn't get nerfed, and then another piece to proc it. At that point you fall down the same rabbit hole of if you're already adding fire dam to proc the ring you may as well grab the absorb ring and the neck assuming their stats just aren't completely unusable for you.
From there there's other pieces that can be useful if even just for swapping stats around.
And then there's the legendary weapons for 2h strength users and evoker.
All of this stuff is not a huge deal though, you can only use pvp gear and be just as successful. Its mostly small min-maxy stuff... except maybe the diurna ring which is probably doing more damage than it really should.
Ive been smashing my way past 1800 on fury without a leggo at all. I think I the legendary is cool, but not mandatory. Maybe if you’re pushing rank 1 and need that extra 8% damage or whatever over the course of an arena, but not at normal people ratings.
Yeah at 1800 it isn’t going to matter much, but if you look at what the “top” players on Murlok.io are wearing there’s a decent amount of PvE gear, mostly in the ring and weapon slots.
Sure, but for example of the top 50 arms warriors in 3s right now, 27 are running the lego weapon. So it’s not required, but there are plenty at the top who are going to min-max with PvE gear.
sure but the point is pvp gear was intended to be bis for PVP and somehow pve gear made its way in again to be bis
like you can get 2400 without gems and enchant as well but it doesn't mean people who have them don't have an advantage
Maybe someone could tell me - I understand the gear is easy to get with a LFR run, but then it has to be upgraded. I don’t do mythic + and my PvPing is in the rival - rival II range, would that be enough to give me the materials needed to be able to upgrade the items to a level where the would be bis in PvP? Or do I need to be duelist to get the right crests, etc to get the ilvl high enough?
Even worse, you need to be gladiator (2400+) to get aspect crests. and even then I think you get 1 crest per WIN above 2400.
to max 2 pieces of pve gear you would need, I think around 150-180 aspect crests, depending on the pieces.
And that's _after_ you get past the wyrm upgrades, which would be similar amount required and that would be from wins above 2100
its much easier and faster to get these crests from Mythic+, so we're back to PvE'ing for PvP gear, which blizzard has moved away from countless times, but we aaaalways slowly get back to it!
all this being said, it's for relatively minor upgrades, and the best players can still get r1 without doing any pve. I don't like to complain about DF gearing, S1-S3 were pretty close to perfect for gearing imo, but this season is a little concerning if they continue it into TWW
Idk, I tested it on ret and it procs so little I don't feel it's worth the secondary stat (mastery/haste) loss. Don't see why everyone is saying is BiS or that good (maybe for some specs like fire mage it is).
Every spec can proc it easily at a high rate with amidrassil head enchant and the fire dot embellishment that’s why it’s good for every class basically
The only people that use conquest gear are people that stack vers. Otherwise you need to craft all your gear. Plus there are tons of pve items that are now BIS in arena
> The only people that use conquest gear are people that stack vers.
so... everyone?
and crafted is hardly bad... of course its gonna be good its totally customisable (which is a good thing)
and i dont think there are that many pve items that are usable, let alone bis
But thats my point. If we end up recrafting everything (which we do) then what is the point of conquest gear except filler until we get our crafted.
I get that crafting takes care of most things but I just wish a full gladiator set was actually BIS. I think it would add to that feeling of gear progression a lot better and add a stronger pvp "vibe" to our community
I just don’t get why the PvP ilvl increase doesn’t go higher than the max PvE ilvl - it’s just for PvP so might as well.
Like if max PvE ilvl is 335, just make PvP ilvl 340 for conquest gear. Boom problem solved. Hardcore PvErs still get the benefit of having better-than-honor-gear gear.
This is literally how it was meant to be, was the whole point of having it increase so the pve ilvl of it could be lower, and they somehow messed that up.
I’m pretty sure this is exactly how it worked when this system was first introduced (WoD?).
Seems like a no brainer but for some reason Blizz always go back to PvE items being BiS
This is the best gearing has ever been.
This season is an exception as its a "bonus" season.
All the problems in the game, and we're moaning about this.
Nah, WoD was better cuz we had pvp-specific tier sets built into the conquest gear and no vault or crafting. But yeah, I'd say DF is the best gearing since WoD
100% I don't even pve that much and it's so cool how they didn't just throw everything away. It's a nice swan song for the expansion, just giving tokens , get all this cool stuff and play with it. Revisit all these raids they worked hard to build. Even us pvpers are getting into the mix a bit. I hope this whole "awakened" thing is constant for all future expansions.
Gearing is easy, but this is a valid issue that will get worse as the season goes on. Wait until later in the season when people are min maxing with multiple bullion gear. It's not going to feel great for people that only do pvp to have that power difference.
True but out of all the problems this has literally the simplest fix, so there's argument to be made that Blizzard should be fixing both Serious and tough problems, *as well as* minor but easy to solve problems.
It's why I put it in quotes. It's not a bonus you're still paying for it.
Filler season, no content season. Whatever.
> This season is just as “real” as any other season.
Except it doesn't come with any new content.
They need to do it in combination with having plentiful cosmetic rewards. People want to be rewarded for playing, and gearing is filling a part of that hole. Remove gearing and you have 1 ground mount, and 1tmog for most players. It's not enough as is.
I can only speak for myself and my PvE focused guild- but the people who do PvP (admittedly only a few) are **all** in it for transmogs. There are a few that go for 1800 and quit every season (myself included). There is one that goes for the weapon enchant and quits (or helps others get 1800, but isn't pushing new rating).
Every person I've met that doesn't PvP for the joy of PvPing does it purely for transmogs, not achievements.
Oddly enough you point to the heart of the issue. So much of the pvp community, myself included now, doesn't play because it's not fun. I used to hit 2k and almost feel relieved that I could start really having fun again. I played pvp all day every day for no rewards just because it was fun. That's what really has changed.
No, WoD gearing was great.
You're thinking of Legion, and the gear was not normalized at all. Your stat template was fixed, but you still got extra stats for each point of average ilevel you equipped.
Fully geared players were doing much, much more damage than fresh characters even though stats were a "template".
People hated gearing for that reason, in addition to the fact that you couldn't customize your stats as you wished. No haste/mastery stacking, etc.
No I'm thinking of WoD. Legion and the following 3 expansions were bad for different and I agree worse reasons.
Imo wotlk style gearing for pvp would be perfect for the community if they reduced the requirements. That way you have your first conquest weapon at say, 1600, and your BiS conquest at 2k. Shoulders at 1800. Give arena gear it's own unique stat (resilience) and tier set bonuses.
As someone who never actually got any of the "BiS" trinkets and stuff from raids, that was hardly a bar to entry. You were perfectly fine in full pvp gear.
Remember in BFA when you had to be a +15 M+ grinder to be somewhat viable in PvP? I ended up in top 5 on my server on 2 chars before I was bis geared. Well an cleared most of the raid on mythic..
Yup. It's going to get real bad in the season too. Funny enough, it's not even the legendarys that are the biggest issue. Some of the weps like thorncaller and fire jewelry are insane.
Firstly, many of us like the sort of interesting stuff that can be done with the "pve" items in pvp and the %change from just running full conquest is so low that it doesn't matter for 99% or people.
Secondly, getting Bullion's is like 15 mins of LFR, it's so freaking easy if you really want the little gain or want to put in the work in leveling the pve items up.
Tl;Dr - it doesn't matter at all and it's actually fun for people who like it. You losing your 2s match isnt because they had a pve ring with a couple ilvls of stats.
While I agree with you,
>Remember back in the day when you finally got your last piece of Gladiator gear and you were finally BIS?
This was almost never the case. There is almost always some PvE pieces that was an upgrade over PvP pieces in most seasons.
MoP had it that way. Yeah there was legendary cloak but it got scaled down in pvp. As it should be.
And all pve gear scaled down to pvp ilvl as it should be.
And pvp power separated regular gear which was stronger in pvp and only in pvp gear.
As it should be.
The min maxing, "what's my BiS?" approach is such a weird concept to me in pvp.
I get for PVE, it's basically your gear and your rotation. If you can get a WA to tell you the rotation then you go for the best gear and you're all set.
But the way Blizz made pvp as of late, the thing 99% of the BiS chasers need to work on is knowledge of the game and win conditions/cd trading. Gear is such a small portion of their problems. The same people who grind out the leggo axe run behind pillars and die trying to pull huge numbers.
There's a reason why pros/streamers can get to 2.4 on every spec. It's not because of gear, they've mastered the gameplay.
when was that? because partial PvE gear had always been some of biS items for pvp since TBC-BFA Cata leggo partial raid gear and trinkets all throughout WOTLK, partial raid gear from TBC including Warglaives of Azzinoth, daggers Dargon soul, Gurthalak 2H proc sword, 1h axes trinkets etc... MoP the trinkets from Throne of Thunder, rune of Re-origination was OPAF and same with and I forgot what the other trinket was called but it basically ur spells had a chance to proc a buff that gave you 100% crit chance for 5 seconds and was super good for spell casters in pvp
Conquest gear is BIS. There are some pve items that can provide a slight optimization depending on your spec, but it really isn't that important unless you're trying your playing on the tournament realm
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, its a couple bullion pve items and then entire rest of the gear is conq gear, people in this thread are tweaking.
who doesn't use conquest gear or crafted or wpvp for bis?
Most specs will be running the diurna ring if it doesn't get nerfed, and then another piece to proc it. At that point you fall down the same rabbit hole of if you're already adding fire dam to proc the ring you may as well grab the absorb ring and the neck assuming their stats just aren't completely unusable for you. From there there's other pieces that can be useful if even just for swapping stats around. And then there's the legendary weapons for 2h strength users and evoker. All of this stuff is not a huge deal though, you can only use pvp gear and be just as successful. Its mostly small min-maxy stuff... except maybe the diurna ring which is probably doing more damage than it really should.
The Lego and new 2h are basically what gives fury warrior legs this season. The ring is unreasonably cracked as well.
Ive been smashing my way past 1800 on fury without a leggo at all. I think I the legendary is cool, but not mandatory. Maybe if you’re pushing rank 1 and need that extra 8% damage or whatever over the course of an arena, but not at normal people ratings.
Yeah at 1800 it isn’t going to matter much, but if you look at what the “top” players on Murlok.io are wearing there’s a decent amount of PvE gear, mostly in the ring and weapon slots.
I’m top 15 for fury not running it
Sure, but for example of the top 50 arms warriors in 3s right now, 27 are running the lego weapon. So it’s not required, but there are plenty at the top who are going to min-max with PvE gear.
Yeah I said it might matter at rank 1 rating, but pretending that the other 99.9% of us NEED it to be competitive is disingenuous, at best.
sure but the point is pvp gear was intended to be bis for PVP and somehow pve gear made its way in again to be bis like you can get 2400 without gems and enchant as well but it doesn't mean people who have them don't have an advantage
You’re correct. But so am I
Maybe someone could tell me - I understand the gear is easy to get with a LFR run, but then it has to be upgraded. I don’t do mythic + and my PvPing is in the rival - rival II range, would that be enough to give me the materials needed to be able to upgrade the items to a level where the would be bis in PvP? Or do I need to be duelist to get the right crests, etc to get the ilvl high enough?
Even worse, you need to be gladiator (2400+) to get aspect crests. and even then I think you get 1 crest per WIN above 2400. to max 2 pieces of pve gear you would need, I think around 150-180 aspect crests, depending on the pieces. And that's _after_ you get past the wyrm upgrades, which would be similar amount required and that would be from wins above 2100 its much easier and faster to get these crests from Mythic+, so we're back to PvE'ing for PvP gear, which blizzard has moved away from countless times, but we aaaalways slowly get back to it! all this being said, it's for relatively minor upgrades, and the best players can still get r1 without doing any pve. I don't like to complain about DF gearing, S1-S3 were pretty close to perfect for gearing imo, but this season is a little concerning if they continue it into TWW
Cool that is the info I needed, you have laid my FOMO to rest, thanks!
What other pieces to proc the ring are there? I run devoker, and haven't been sure if the fire proc ring was worth it given the unideal stat profile.
Anything that does fire damage, which includes multischools.
Idk, I tested it on ret and it procs so little I don't feel it's worth the secondary stat (mastery/haste) loss. Don't see why everyone is saying is BiS or that good (maybe for some specs like fire mage it is).
Every spec can proc it easily at a high rate with amidrassil head enchant and the fire dot embellishment that’s why it’s good for every class basically
Enchant doesnt work in pvp
Ahh, well still leaves the shadowflame embellishment but if they don’t take that I don’t know why they pick the Ring
> I don’t know why they pick the Ring 7ilvls.
Diurna ring is doing like 6% of my friends enh sham DPS it's kinda silly
Yeah I'm shocked it hasn't already caught a pvp modifier, I'd be amazed if it doesn't soon.
I think the post is referring to crafted gear being better for a lot of classes in many slots
The only people that use conquest gear are people that stack vers. Otherwise you need to craft all your gear. Plus there are tons of pve items that are now BIS in arena
> The only people that use conquest gear are people that stack vers. so... everyone? and crafted is hardly bad... of course its gonna be good its totally customisable (which is a good thing) and i dont think there are that many pve items that are usable, let alone bis
But thats my point. If we end up recrafting everything (which we do) then what is the point of conquest gear except filler until we get our crafted. I get that crafting takes care of most things but I just wish a full gladiator set was actually BIS. I think it would add to that feeling of gear progression a lot better and add a stronger pvp "vibe" to our community
I just don’t get why the PvP ilvl increase doesn’t go higher than the max PvE ilvl - it’s just for PvP so might as well. Like if max PvE ilvl is 335, just make PvP ilvl 340 for conquest gear. Boom problem solved. Hardcore PvErs still get the benefit of having better-than-honor-gear gear.
This is literally how it was meant to be, was the whole point of having it increase so the pve ilvl of it could be lower, and they somehow messed that up.
I’m pretty sure this is exactly how it worked when this system was first introduced (WoD?). Seems like a no brainer but for some reason Blizz always go back to PvE items being BiS
This is the best gearing has ever been. This season is an exception as its a "bonus" season. All the problems in the game, and we're moaning about this.
Nah, WoD was better cuz we had pvp-specific tier sets built into the conquest gear and no vault or crafting. But yeah, I'd say DF is the best gearing since WoD
WoD was good for gearing but I still have PTSD from farming Ashran praying to RNGsus for the Alacrity trinket
100% I don't even pve that much and it's so cool how they didn't just throw everything away. It's a nice swan song for the expansion, just giving tokens , get all this cool stuff and play with it. Revisit all these raids they worked hard to build. Even us pvpers are getting into the mix a bit. I hope this whole "awakened" thing is constant for all future expansions.
Absolutely
Gearing is easy, but this is a valid issue that will get worse as the season goes on. Wait until later in the season when people are min maxing with multiple bullion gear. It's not going to feel great for people that only do pvp to have that power difference.
True but out of all the problems this has literally the simplest fix, so there's argument to be made that Blizzard should be fixing both Serious and tough problems, *as well as* minor but easy to solve problems.
Tell me why my epic 528 has less mastery and like 100 more agil and stamina (not worth it) than my 515 green?
What class is this?
Rogue idk why I’m getting downvotes, it’s true.
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Except there’s no rewards until 2100
this is literally a bonus season man. no new raid tier. these used to not even happen.
Not bonus , you mean recycled because they ripped people by producing one less raid tier than usual .
It's why I put it in quotes. It's not a bonus you're still paying for it. Filler season, no content season. Whatever. > This season is just as “real” as any other season. Except it doesn't come with any new content.
I don’t think ppl complain about this actually play at ratings where this level of min/max matters.
Normalized gear so even playing field for everyone. Just pure competition.
still dont get why people like this why is it fun to regrind gear every patch? like to me thats the worst part of every season.
Because you are playing an MMO?
id like to regrind gear maybe every expac but every season?
Picture this WoW combat with the launcher of league and load outs of call of duty.
For most it's the best part. To actually get rewards, since there's not much else in PvP.
They tried this in WoD and people felt the gamewas too boring. And it helped create the "pvp is only a side game" narrative.
They need to do it in combination with having plentiful cosmetic rewards. People want to be rewarded for playing, and gearing is filling a part of that hole. Remove gearing and you have 1 ground mount, and 1tmog for most players. It's not enough as is.
I don't think cosmetics hold that much weight for people, tbh. Part of mmoprgs is feeling player progression, not just looking at it.
I think you highly underestimate how much of the playerbase is rewards-based. Most people play for 1800 for tmog then stop.
I feel like its more about notching the achievements than the MOG. Especislly the people who don't play their toon once it hits 1800 anymore.
I can only speak for myself and my PvE focused guild- but the people who do PvP (admittedly only a few) are **all** in it for transmogs. There are a few that go for 1800 and quit every season (myself included). There is one that goes for the weapon enchant and quits (or helps others get 1800, but isn't pushing new rating). Every person I've met that doesn't PvP for the joy of PvPing does it purely for transmogs, not achievements.
Oddly enough you point to the heart of the issue. So much of the pvp community, myself included now, doesn't play because it's not fun. I used to hit 2k and almost feel relieved that I could start really having fun again. I played pvp all day every day for no rewards just because it was fun. That's what really has changed.
No, WoD gearing was great. You're thinking of Legion, and the gear was not normalized at all. Your stat template was fixed, but you still got extra stats for each point of average ilevel you equipped. Fully geared players were doing much, much more damage than fresh characters even though stats were a "template". People hated gearing for that reason, in addition to the fact that you couldn't customize your stats as you wished. No haste/mastery stacking, etc.
No I'm thinking of WoD. Legion and the following 3 expansions were bad for different and I agree worse reasons. Imo wotlk style gearing for pvp would be perfect for the community if they reduced the requirements. That way you have your first conquest weapon at say, 1600, and your BiS conquest at 2k. Shoulders at 1800. Give arena gear it's own unique stat (resilience) and tier set bonuses.
The problem with wotlk style gearing wasn't the pvp gear, it was almost necessary to pve to be able to pvp
As someone who never actually got any of the "BiS" trinkets and stuff from raids, that was hardly a bar to entry. You were perfectly fine in full pvp gear.
demon hunter
im fine with it being this way for the fated season. any other season i would be annoyed.
Agreed. Meme season let there be silly dumb things
Remember in BFA when you had to be a +15 M+ grinder to be somewhat viable in PvP? I ended up in top 5 on my server on 2 chars before I was bis geared. Well an cleared most of the raid on mythic..
And i loved it very much
Yup. It's going to get real bad in the season too. Funny enough, it's not even the legendarys that are the biggest issue. Some of the weps like thorncaller and fire jewelry are insane.
Firstly, many of us like the sort of interesting stuff that can be done with the "pve" items in pvp and the %change from just running full conquest is so low that it doesn't matter for 99% or people. Secondly, getting Bullion's is like 15 mins of LFR, it's so freaking easy if you really want the little gain or want to put in the work in leveling the pve items up. Tl;Dr - it doesn't matter at all and it's actually fun for people who like it. You losing your 2s match isnt because they had a pve ring with a couple ilvls of stats.
While I agree with you, >Remember back in the day when you finally got your last piece of Gladiator gear and you were finally BIS? This was almost never the case. There is almost always some PvE pieces that was an upgrade over PvP pieces in most seasons.
MoP had it that way. Yeah there was legendary cloak but it got scaled down in pvp. As it should be. And all pve gear scaled down to pvp ilvl as it should be. And pvp power separated regular gear which was stronger in pvp and only in pvp gear. As it should be.
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Because you overcap on vers if u use vers /x in every slot, and the longer in the expansion, the easier to hit softcap
So healers are supposed to run that ring too? The one that gives an absorb? Kinda confused about this season.
It'd be nice if armor classification meant something. Pretty exhausting seeing mages with more health than my Tauren warrior.
The min maxing, "what's my BiS?" approach is such a weird concept to me in pvp. I get for PVE, it's basically your gear and your rotation. If you can get a WA to tell you the rotation then you go for the best gear and you're all set. But the way Blizz made pvp as of late, the thing 99% of the BiS chasers need to work on is knowledge of the game and win conditions/cd trading. Gear is such a small portion of their problems. The same people who grind out the leggo axe run behind pillars and die trying to pull huge numbers. There's a reason why pros/streamers can get to 2.4 on every spec. It's not because of gear, they've mastered the gameplay.
Can't think of anyone who did this except supatease
Pvp set bonuses and item runes like in SoD should be implemented to help with design gaps/flaws to help balance pvp and make classes more viable.
when was that? because partial PvE gear had always been some of biS items for pvp since TBC-BFA Cata leggo partial raid gear and trinkets all throughout WOTLK, partial raid gear from TBC including Warglaives of Azzinoth, daggers Dargon soul, Gurthalak 2H proc sword, 1h axes trinkets etc... MoP the trinkets from Throne of Thunder, rune of Re-origination was OPAF and same with and I forgot what the other trinket was called but it basically ur spells had a chance to proc a buff that gave you 100% crit chance for 5 seconds and was super good for spell casters in pvp
idk how thats even an issue to make a post about. the really issue is gearing alts is FUCKING. AIDS.
It's not worth the effort to get the ring
MoP had best pvp gearing
Someone tell me why my green 515 )has more mastery than my epic 528. This game man.
Someone tell me why my green 515 )has more mastery than my epic 528. This game man.
Conquest gear is BIS. There are some pve items that can provide a slight optimization depending on your spec, but it really isn't that important unless you're trying your playing on the tournament realm
If you are full conquest gear you are definitely not BIS Edit: unless your class stacks verse
Even vers stackers want pve gear. The eranog ring has more vers on it than a pvp ring and a free damage proc. Every dps has it as bis
I mean once we get enough sparks it'll be pretty even with crafted gear. Something should probably be done about eranog ring tho. Lol
I don't know why you're getting downvoted, its a couple bullion pve items and then entire rest of the gear is conq gear, people in this thread are tweaking.
It's legit maybe 1 to 3% more dps. And you could get really close with crafted gear. It's not ideal but not some huge game breaking thing imo
Thank jah i'm too trash and 3% won't save my life.
It was up until this season for df :(