OP spitting facts that alot of people dont want to hear. Just make these share rewards so people can choose if they want to attain them by solo queuing or playing with friends. Its that simple.
I mean if glad rewards werent added to 2s which is a much harder bracket than ss and existed since the start of arena, i dont see why they would add it to ss now, especially only ss
Negative. 2s requires the least amount of skill; even at high rating, it's more spec and comp than skill.
SS does have lobbys that are both auto-wins and auto-losses.
So yes, you can be lucky and get a rating that is insanely beyond your skill level, in addition to some classes thriving with far more comps than others.
It is an obvious, common sense move to give glad rewards to SS, especially as it would further incentivize blizzard to develop class balance; success shouldn't only be available if you play 1-2 comps.
What facts mate, there’s a reason they don’t give season rewards in lfr, that’s the problem with society now a days, people contributing a piece of their mind when they don’t have any mind to spare.
Shit should just be called soloq, duoq, trioq or w/e so we can stop pretending it's not and move the focus to soloq lile every single game does.
Just keep ''trioq'' (a bit kek) as the main competitive format but the game needs soloq to survive
> but the game needs soloq to survive
Wrong. It literally doesn't. What it needs is consistent updates and balancing to the game. Retail PvP is dead not because of LFG even if you people seem to think so, its dead because in the last 4 expansions you've received a total of 200 lines in patch notes. If Blizzard literally gave a single shit about PvP it would've been blooming.
I don't want to lose the ability to queue with friends, so I hope SS turns into solo queue and combines the brackets player base together. That way I can queue up when I'm on my own, and I can queue up with friend when they are on.
SS was a fun experiment but I don't think it works as well in practice.
As someine who doesn't like to pug, SS saved wow pvp for me while allowing me do drop the toxic people I had been playing with for years.... yeah obv ss has its.issues, but I'll never forget that feeling of empowerment when the guy I had been playing with started shitting on me in comms (like he always did after a few drinks) and being able to say you know what,ive had enough... I can get my needs met in shuffle....deuces.
Solo queue would be better.
LFG is basically a solo queue these days anyway, except you have to sign up to groups. You then play 5-10 games, someone rages and you go again. May as well automate it at that point.
I think if there were more healers queuing it would have been a massive success, but getting them to queue is hard. I personally don’t want to queue into duos in shuffle when I’m playing by myself. People already boost in shuffle by lining up queue times and it feels like that would make it worse.
Do you even play league? You get filled into a role. We select roles in WoW just like league. So you wouldn’t get 4adcs, same as you wouldn’t get 2 healers and a dps lol
I’m conflicted, because my favorite mode is 2v2 and I don’t want it to die, but as a healer I haven’t touched solo shuffle in several months (and don’t plan on ever touching it again).
I would be fine with solo queue, where you just team up like skirms for one quick round, but the anxiety of knowing you could end up in a bad lobby for 40 minutes is just too much for me lol.
So overall I want solo queue (not shuffle), but if it’s going to stay shuffle, I’ll continue to not queue it and tell every healer I know to steer clear of it so it dies in a sea of DPS mains waiting in queue
>So overall I want solo queue (not shuffle), but if it’s going to stay shuffle, I’ll continue to not queue it and tell every healer I know to steer clear of it so it dies in a sea of DPS mains waiting in queue
Stay mad.
Reddit moment lol. Please re-read that verrrry carefully.
“If the solo mode stays ‘shuffle’ like it is, I won’t queue the solo shuffle mode”
I really only play 2’s and 3’s at the moment, it’s solo shuffle I don’t like and don’t play lol. I’d only play a “solo” version if it was one round like skirmish.
Thankfully you’re the only one that didn’t understand that lol
Eh? I got that part. I didn't quote that part! I'm the same as you - a healer whose favourite mode is 2s and wishes shuffle was normal 3s solo q as well. Committing to 6 of those games at a time puts me off. In total agreement with everything you said in the first 2 paragraphs.
Why don't you reread my post? I just found your last paragraph amusing. Your reply to me was peak reddit actually.
No, do not reward solo-ist behavior as it works against the core concept of the entire genre and you end up with the cesspool that is current WoW.
Gladiator rewards being removed from 2s happened because it was a god awful fotm'ing hellscape. Shuffle should remain a casual game mode of luck of the draw.
Your next Reddit campaign should be to reintroduce RNG CC.
I acknowledge shuffle keeping a lot of people in PvP but god I fucking hate it. It doesn’t matter what I play it’s just kinda unhealthy for me so I keep to my happy 2s and 3s and let the zoomers do whatever they do in ss
I just came back to wow, last playing in MoP. I am a dad, I own a business, and I don’t have time to LFG. Shuffle is here forever and is healthy for wow pvp, get on board or get off the boat.
Stay in your lane then. If I’m happy playing 2s and 3s why should I stop playing the game? Not like I’m purposely qing ss and leaving to deliberately fuck you over. I’ve been playing since mop and have responsibilities now too but somehow manage a social life and good work life balance.
I think blizzard intends to make battlegrounds the future of wow pvp not shuffle.
Personally i feel like a mmorpg the best rewards should be from team content\\coordination.
Your first issue about the fact its full of rank 1s, all they have to do is make gladiator a account wide thing when calculating the %s at end of season so random people with 20 glad shamans dont take up spots which would increase the pool of players getting glad.
3v3 is not as rewarding as solo shuffle for most players. Solo shuffle is easier to just jump in and play whenever you want to get the rewards and conquest you need for power. It takes way longer to find friends a group to play with and organize a time to play for 3v3 than it does in solo shuffle. Its also so much easier to push rating in solo shuffle as a normal player than it is in 3v3. Blizzard has purposefully killed 3v3 by making the rewards trash and the rating difficult to push.
Most of those issues above can be fixed without throwing away coordinated group play by putting all the rewards in solo shuffle which is basically just pve/dps off for most classes. Wow pvp was better when it wasnt all about your damage done at the end of the round. Solo shuffle is trash.
BGs are the future of nothing. Blizz says this for the casuals. Rated solo q BGs as a viable game mode is the most copium thing in WoW PvP. You have zero agency over the match and it feels like shit. Not to mention there’s zero tuning for rated BG, everything is tuned for 3v3 and that won’t change.
I’ll get downvoted by Andy’s that don’t understand the game, that’s fine. But this is the truth.
I'm fairly sure rated solo bgs will bring a massive number of new players into pvp and that can't be a bad thing at all, probably a number much much higher than the entire current population of wow pvp.
If something like that happens, eventually those numbers might trickle down to arena, you can't possibly see that as a bad thing. Wow pvp needs a point of entry right now and solo shuffle despite being a mode that got a lot of popularity, it still did that only amongst the arena community and a very very small subsection of dabblers(mostly now in s4)
It is of my opinion that since it'll be a valid form of gearing and progression, we might end up seeing a growth akin to that of m+
> You have zero agency over the match and it feels like shit
Yup, come ranked blitz a lot of DPS are going to discover first-hand one of the reasons so many of us healers don't enjoy healing shuffle - and as a DPS in a BG (even only an 8 vs 8) they'll have even less impact than healers in shuffle, certainly not enough to consistently/reliably carry games.
I think you're really underestimating the impact of a single player, especially in the smaller blitz format.
One DPS who understands the tremendous value in tying down a healer to a point is already massive.
It's just not the same level of impact by a long shot. Imagine some multi-R1 player on a fresh char in a 1600 shuffle lobby, they're almost certainly going 6-0 (and if not then definitely at least 4 or 5 wins). Take that same player and drop them in a 1600 8v8 and yes their team has a *higher* chance of winning, but it's far from guaranteed.
Good players will still climb of course, but it'll be closer to the rate (most) healers climb in shuffle rather than how quickly good DPS are able to.
Pit a multi r1 healir on a shuffle 1600 lobby and he would most likely go 5-1 or 6-0 too. Healers who complain that they cant carry games are supposed to be in that rating and arent as good as they think they are. There are tons of healer diff lobbies where all dps go 3-3 and one healer sweepes.
Of course an R1 healer is sweeping a 1600 lobby, absolutely nobody is disputing that.
Most of us aren't R1 players getting thrown in lobbies 1500 points below our skill level though - and so what we're saying when we say healers have less impact is that in a lobby where the players are all of roughly similar skill, a DPS only needs to outperform *slightly* to walk away with more than three wins - whereas a healer needs to outperform *significantly*.
No damp in bgs. This is the best thing to happen to healers in ranked pvp ever. While dps have less control in rbg, healers have greater control in rbg because we don't get our keyboards turned off at 3 min.
100%. Rated BG’s are for smooth brains that don’t want to take the time to ACTUALLY learn PvP. Rated BG’s come down to -
1: who has better gear
2: who has more arena glads on their team.
I’ve never lost a rated game with a full 10 stack of glads including myself unless we were just trolling. Not trying to boast but it’s the truth - you got the 2.4 bg only Andy’s who come up with “choke point strategies” nah man just chain cc on healers/ keep track of DR’s/trinkets and do normal 3v3 esque go’s. Works every single match at “high RBG MMR”.
Which leads me to another point, good luck actually tracking EVERYBODYS DRs in a wild solo BG enviornment - game modes a pure crapshoot and only useful for gearing for arena early season. Andy’s gonna hate on this but it’s the absolute truth. If wow pvp were a casino, BG’s are the slot machines, while arena is poker (especially solo environments such as arena/blitz)
While I agree about the impact a single dps can have in each of the modes. I will counter with sometimes I just wanna drink some wine chill, maybe smoke a bit, and just play some bgs that are little more competitive than normal bgs.
It’s a way different vibe. Sometimes that’s the vibe you’re going for.
Yes that’s a different story. It’s sometimes fun to chill in BG’s but if rated BG’s didn’t award bigger conquest gains I’d way rather just play normals or if I don’t care about conquest usually by mid-late season I just chill in normals with some buddies occasionally in between long arena sessions. I’m specifically talking about the edgelords who try to make a massive deal about RBG’s being the prime hardcore “pvp mode” because it’s not, far far from it. I say this and I’ve been 2300 in rated BG’s because the conquest grind was unreal those seasons so was forced to play RBG’s more than I’d like in order to get my alts gear’d up quicker for arena
Rated BGs come down to who has better gear?
When everybody has the same gear past like 1500 anyways?
The fuck lmao.
Tell me you've never actually pushed RBGs while frothing at the mouth for any chance to demand arenas are somehow superior while it's also dying.
Knew the Andy’s would come out. 1800-2k in LFG (depending on season) no shortage of “farming conquest YOLO’s” listed. While 1400-1600 is filled with “alt farm”.
I guarantee I’ve been higher than you in RBG’s because I’ve been forced to run them in seasons past because CQ grinds were unreal early season. It’s a joke of a game mode and rated blitz will be the killer of it. Look at how many consistent teams there are at the top of the ladder vs arena. 100-1000s in arena and like 5 for RBG’s - that shows what’s really dying. 2300 RBG’s I will sit there and watch a mage try to sheep a feral or a rogue DR kidney into a warrior storm bolt and no one says a word about it, it’s unreal. RBGs come down to - gear - then who has more arena gladiators as I’ve said before. Goodluck as a bunch of Andy’s vs 10 glads who can actually mental track DR’s/know how to properly chain cc/ trade defensives/ swap on defensives and trinkets. The amount of discords id hop in at 2300 where no one’s calling their CD’s or stuns/restuns/cc is standard for course. It’s always just the “leader” calling choke point strategy’s/ telling DK to grip blind and ww to sweep which is 1800 cr arena shit. Or shouting FOCUS ONE TARGET X like a mongrel in team fights still or sending 5 here 4 there.
BG’s are more about PVEing. Everyone just PVEing the “raid boss” down mindsets - fuck trying to CC/keep track of 3 enemy healers when you can just try to pop all 7 offensive CDs into a single target. 3’s you aren’t getting past 1800 with that mindset, RBGs you can be 2200+ with it. Ideally you should be fighting 3v3s on each cap/tower 1 healer with 2 DPS on each (3 healers 6 dps) but RBG’s are more of a Zerg pve mentality because if you don’t have glads+ those 3v3s are 110 % lost to those who are.
This is why when I’d 10 man with other glads we’d consistently stomp at high CR, winning 3v4s and 3v5s on objectives. Understand that if all the top arena rank 1’s went insane and wanted to take over the RBG game they could do it in a heartbeat but RBG’s are a casual mode so it’ll never happen and why it hasn’t.
Glad hasnt been %-based since legion, and they made r1 not take up multiple slots in dragonflight.
Glad is just 2.4 50 wins, hence why glad was so easy in unchained when the season was super inflated and the top of the Ladder was 3000-3600cr instead of 2600-3200 cr
>Your first issue about the fact its full of rank 1s, all they have to do is make gladiator a account wide thing when calculating the %s at end of season so random people with 20 glad shamans dont take up spots which would increase the pool of players getting glad.
You don't even know how glad works, why have an authoritative take on something you don't understand on a basic level
Solo shuffle is not more rewarding. It’s far more rewarding to group with my friends and get eh achievements than with randoms. The only reason solo shuffle is more popular is because you can just click a button and be in queue. Threes takes more work to find a group and actual communication skills which people playing wow don’t like. It’s that simple.
Rewards in terms of that its easier to get rating in solo shuffle than 3s. The skill level required to get 2.2k in solo shuffle is lower than it is to get the same in 3v3. Also on top of that while it may be more fun to play with people, the time it takes to organize and set that up is pretty high compared to just queueing solo shuffle.
I agree with making gladiator account wide. That would make the path less miserable for everyone to avoid alt after alt of the same people... But I'm so tired of the take that 3s sucks because it's just for r1 people.... First of all I'm not that good. 1800 lifer... But like the goal or the dream is to get better and get my rating up to be able to play with those people. And that's what I'm working for. Games get boring if you achieve the highest goal you're after. Plus ..... You don't change the rules of professional sports just so middle aged amateurs can keep up ... And crying about it just makes you one of the poor sport amateurs.... So yes.... Good take Sir
I have been pushing glad since DF s1. That season I got to 2100ish. S2 I got to 2200ish. S3 i got to 2300ish. And now i am hovering around 2300 but i finally found solid teammates to push with and I am confident we will get it this season or next. If they made glad available in shuffle i would quit the game.
There is already Legend for shuffle. What I think they should do is give a recolored glad mount for that. That way glads will still have their bragging rights and shufflers will feel more properly rewarded for their hard work.
But just giving glad to shufflers would ruin arena. 3s is the heart of arena. When I get Legend in shuffle (which is way easier then glad) it feels cool but definitely not the same at all.
So you're only incentive to playing WoW is getting the Gladiator title and gatekeeping anyone else from getting it?
When you do finally hit 2400, you will find that it's easier to do it again, and eventually it'll just be natural for you. At that point will you quit when you notice an increase in lesser skilled players on FOTM classes hitting Glad?
No I am just saying I actually enjoy the "push" and how hard and grueling it is. It makes me feel like it is the pinnacle of "achievement" in wow pvp besides r1. And so if they suddenly changed the difficulty by a significant amount to where I could immediately get it..it would feel meaningless and that last two years of work would all go out the window. I want it to be incredibly hard to get but I get its just a personal opinion.
Either way..they need to add more rewards..not take or recycle rewards away. We need a whole renown system.
> Shuffle is the heart of arena by a long shot looking at participation
Wild take, just looking at participation. It's a new mode added for 60 year old boomers with zero skill and zero idea how to find LFG teammates so they go into shuffle and wait 40 mins for queue. Heart of arena is still 3's and 2's by far and that's where the actual pvpers are, not the casuals. Solo shuffle is a meme game in a meme format which resembles nothing that of normal arenas and frankly, is a joke to the game.
The fact you believe shuffle deserves glad level rewards is insane, when it requires probably 1% of the skill to reach 2.4k in ss as it does in 3s. That's being generous, too.
Healer main but nice try. Shuffle is just a more convenient bracket for the masses. Make the cutoffs higher if the rated 3s 'purists' QQ because it's to easy.
Rated 3s is an antiquated system no other game requires you to party up before hand to compete. Time for a change
Shuffle is convenient because you get instant Ques, and your win/losses are practically never up to how well you played and more about how the dice rolled with the lobby you got into. I've been watching Ven heal to 2400 on Hpal and the fact that he plays like it's blizzcon on the line while the other healer just dawdles in mid field unpunished and still goes 3-3 or what not says a lot about how RNG rating is for healers. If a caster played as sloppy as a healer gets away with they'd be stuck at 1600 due to the melee hellhole that is RSS.
I like to play 3s, it doesn't change the facts. The amount of copium you have to say 3s bracket is 'alive and well' is just so wrong. Look at the numbers of people queuing ranked versus shuffle. It's a small percentage.
Pvp overall is a small percentage of wows player base. Just because you don’t play 3s doesn’t mean the 3s bracket is dying lol you’re just being stubborn in proving that your theory is correct. Sorry but 3s is still rocking and whether you want to believe it or not is on you.
bruh, i sit in lfg for hours looking for 2200+ dps to play with. lol
Theres just so few players at that rating in 3's who dont have a group already.
My friends list is a graveyard of disappearing dps.
Yeah you right. All of the competitors for Worlds just show up and they roll the dice for who gets Faker every year. The super bowl every year they just make duplicates of the jerseys for each player so after they flip a coin they know which team they're on. Mythic+ and World first Mythic raids are no different, it's just LFR with gigachads that somehow all coordinate properly. What fuckin' legends.
Is league really the best example? You get all the rewards (like glad should be) from SoloQ lol. You also get opportunities to tryout for pro teams through your SoloQ performance.
Solo shuffle may be the most popular bracket because it's the most accessible 24/7, but everyone who has ever played WoW PvP knows that 3v3 is the best expression of WoW PvP skill and should award the highest rewards. Suggesting otherwise is complete cope.
If you guys were arguing for solo shuffle to have its own mounts or cosmetics, it could be a supportable idea, but awarding Gladiator in shuffle is just not going to ever happen, nor should it. 3s and solo shuffle are two completely separate games and should have separate rewards.
Awarding Gladiator in solo shuffle IS a supportable idea.
The game is quite old, and incentivizing people to not only participate, but try to improve is important for it's longevity.
Arena has been out since 2007 - 17 years after release, why should the title be gate-kept? I would argue that even in 2010 WoTLK it was losing the prestige it had in TBC. I remember selling rating to people on my realm who were noobs. Maybe that doesn't happen as much anymore? If it doesn't I suspect it's due to lack of interest.
> Solo shuffle may be the most popular bracket because it's the most accessible 24/7, but everyone who has ever played WoW PvP knows that 3v3 is the best expression of WoW PvP skill and should award the highest rewards. Suggesting otherwise is complete cope.
If you guys were arguing for solo shuffle to have its own mounts or cosmetics, it could be a supportable idea, but awarding Gladiator in shuffle is just not going to ever happen, nor should it. 3s and solo shuffle are two completely separate games and should have separate rewards.
Amen, most reasonable and the only good take on this thread, tbh. Most of the others are just participation trophy dudes who are to bad at the game and won't admit it. It's just muh lfg faultt i cant climb in 3s, yet they sit in 40 min queues getting carried in SS's zugzug game mode. Meme
> 3v3 is the best expression of WoW PvP skill […] Suggesting otherwise is complete cope.
\> 10x Glad | Hero | r1 Legend
3v3 is the best expression of coordinated WoW PvP skill. Surely given your experience you’d agree that solo shuffle is a slightly different skill set that isn’t directly translatable at high ranks. You can’t expect teammates and enemies to behave the same way they do in 3v3, precisely because you can’t communicate with them.
Suggesting otherwise is complete cope, an effort to defend your favorite game mode from falling into total irrelevance.
Sure, let’s explore that. How about we make the more popular game mode the “official” one and move the gladiator title/mount into solo shuffle? Instead of a mount, 3v3 can have some kind of old boys club “congrats on being here since vanilla” firework or something equally flippant.
> solo shuffle is a slightly different skill set that isn’t directly translatable at high ranks.
Zero skill sets needed in SS, you can literally be carried to 2.4k with ease and you're expecting for glad rewards, what a joke, imagine arguing that there's a skillset in a gamemode reliant on targetting the squishiest target in chat before the game and zugzuging him all day vs non-communicating teams, and at 2.4k rating are a 1500 3v3 player at best, peak. Cope more
But how many R1s wanna queue 3v3 in LFG looking for games, but they wont voice. Then after 1 or 2 losses they just screech and leave. Not much different than SS in a lot of cases.
You're hanging onto the notion that glad titles have to come from ranked 3s. Give ranked something else (dif title of mount color) if you want something exclusive. The way the game has shifted glad should be attainable from the most common pvp arena game variant.
Yes it's a melee pve fest and rng half the time. So is ranked with some matchups. People just have to let go of this glad=ranked 3s title only mentality.
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Leave Gladiator alone as it is the 3v3 title... Solo has Legend. Give Legend a recolor mount if you must. Solo is not and never will be as difficult or as prestigious as 3s. The "most popular bracket" doesn't mean it gets the best reward. The most difficult and highest expression of skill gets the best reward. Should we hand out Gladiator for BG Blitz if it becomes the most popular bracket next season?
> Stop fucking malding over a shitty mount.
It's funny that you say this. The replies had been civil, but you're the one with the aggressive language and saying any disagreement with you is "complete cope". I guess it's not malding. You sound terrified.
>10x Glad | Hero | r1 Legend
> Suggesting otherwise is complete cope.
I don't play shuffle and don't really care either way about the situation, but this just backs up what the OP is saying and no one should listen to anything you say.
While AWC is still exist, it won't. 3s bracket is not the same 3v3 as in shuffle, there are a things named teamplay, setups, different dempening, etc. Different game => different achievements, that's why legends has to have their own mount and title, gladiators - their own. So, Blizzard, just give a mount for SS. Maybe, for 2x2 and RBGs too.
> Then it dies a natural death.
Natural? It will inevitably die because of people who are too bad at the game to admit and realize it so they're crying for changes and easier access and easier game modes so they can get some sort of pixels in game resembling a higher rating than their peak rating at 1500, and somehow for the first time in their life be proud of their inflated rating, and inflated rewards. Bunch of participation trophy kids who has to feel a reward without working for it because they're "owed" it. Times were better when everyone knew it was a unique reward and people didn't cry about it because they didn't feel entitled. It's too hard to achieve (still) to this day for a lot of people but now they're just crying because they can't get it instead of trying to earn it. That's what ruined and kills wow pvp in the end. The crybaby adults.
For better or worse, people are gravitating towards solo queue. Threes is dying out because there is so much to pick from, and they just arent picking retail threes.
Solo queue has its problems, but it is ultimately, way more accessible than threes. Nobody is to blame. Times change.
Edit: it may not sound like it, but i understand where you are coming from, by the way.
This is what I think as well. Mount for Legend, Mount/title for Blitz, Mount for Glad. Give people a reason to grind them all. Hell I even think 2s should have a unique reward, but balance can be so wonky in 2s that might not work.
Agree. Even just having some stupid recoloured version would be a completely different motivation for ppl. As long as solo que remains treated as something inferior by the devs, ppl will not care about pvp or pushing beyond set transmogs. With two color variations, the 0.5% of ppl can keep their pride from 3s and the rest of the player base can have their fun as well, with minimal development requirements from Scamzzars, I mean Blizzard.
I think they should make a new mount specific to Shuffle. I don't think Glad should be from SS. I'm going to be brutally honest, SS is a low skill game mode with a lot of RNG, flame me if you want, but you basically run in and pve zug until dampening ramps up and hope you can secure a kill when your offensives rotate up for a 2nd time.
I find there are minimal "outplay" moments, you literally just zug. 3v3 takes coordination and teamwork, it's an entirely different experience.
I just grinded 2400 in 2s on my marks hunter with my buddy, we were feeling it for some reason. After we got 2400 in 2s I was like well what do I do now? My marks was like 1600 in SS, so I decided to push SS, I got to 2500 in like 2 days of mindless marks pve zugging, running pet stun + binding to 2x stun/trap the healer, almost 0 kiting, I was basically a bot, and that's all it took to get to 2500 lol. I had to actually try hard and use my brain 10x that in 2s if I am being honest.
While I absolutely love that there is a solo q pvp mode, the current iteration is so low on skill and so pve feeling, I really don't think this should reward Glad. But a unique SS mount would be cool, seems like they could do a mount for each bracket, I don't see why that'd be difficult.
> 2 days of mindless marks pve zugging, running pet stun + binding to 2x stun/trap the healer, almost 0 kiting, I was basically a bot, and that's all it took to get to 2500 lol. I had to actually try hard and use my brain 10x that in 2s if I am being honest.
SHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Don't say that, that's all the brain capacity these participation trophy casuals have enough for, if that. Yet they want participation trophies in a meme gamemode and meme format that translates into a 1500 3v3 rating. it's a joke
It should be for every rated bracket. Not having glad in everything is the dumbest shit possible. Just recolor the mounts or make badass ground mounts for 2s, shuffles, blitz
I'll throw gasoline into the fire;
Allow it to be obtained from every bracket.
Then see which brackets are the ones people are actually playing off that.
LFG drove me away from pvp long time ago, and solo shuffle drove me back in.
Thing is, after few weeks, the queue times of solo shuffle as a dps drove me to healing, and then out of pvp again lol
So while I completely agree that more focus should be shifted into SS, I also think that it should be designed to be attractive for new players, and the first thing a new player is introduced to when trying this game mode, is the queue time. And to be honest, if as a new player I sat in queue for 45 minutes, I wouldn't like this game mode no matter how well designed the system is.
I know I'd receive hate for this line of thinking, but since the player base of pvp gets smaller by the day, I really think that the best action to take now in order to save it is to completely remove the 2v2 and 3v3 brackets, and just allows players to either queue as solo or as duos in solo shuffle.
I know it ain't a perfect solution, but it will make pvp very accessible to new players and will for sure reduce queue times for everyone
Shuffle is pretty much the only thing keeping PvP somewhat alive. No one gives a shit about the 3 rank 1s left in the game circle jerking Glad every season, people just want to queue and play.
Why do people say shit like this lol, wow pvp playerbase still dominates a vast majority of pvp games out there lol. In NA you can find queues at most ratings (outside of R1 players) at nearly any time. 3s is far from dead, you can get instant queues up to 2400 right now easily.
> The biggest counterpoint to this is that “it will kill ranked 3s”
The biggest counterpoint is actually that every issue you raised could be addressed by just combining the ladders with a flex q system which would provide essentially everyone with what they *say* they want.
The issue is that there are a significant number of people who actually only really want glad in shuffle because it’s easier to get, so they find problems with flex q because they’d still actually have to improve to get it.
There's be enough people on a flex ladder we wouldn't be having the conversations we're having, honestly.
More bodies of all skill levels, especially lower, does mean with proper inflation / turning that CR based rewards would be easier to obtain, but that's actually a good thing.
Anybody pissed off 2% of players over .4% of players can obtain a cosmetic are fucking nuts anyways, and don't need to be listened to. That's still an extreme minority and something most people will never see.
Just recolour the mount, have two seperate mounts imo. I know a lot of people don’t want to hear this, but solo is way way easier to get high rated at because it’s a different game all together.
This is a MMO, not a solo player game. I’m fine with giving players solo content to do, but it should not replace content that’s meant for premade groups. If I want to play a solo player game, WoW is no where near my first choice. If you want solo content to reward everything premade content does, you’re asking for WoW to turn into this:
https://preview.redd.it/m4h9o6qq678d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a34790ef3581b07ebe80828eba72123cb81472eb
I think I'm in a not so unique position as a lot of long time WoW players that think LFG/classic 3v3 is pretty fucked.
I've been playing since late vanilla, got glad in WotLK + Cata and played at 2650+ as recent as legion. I've beaten a lot of tournament players on the ladder back in the day. But for BFA I hit my 2100 to get the enchant, didn't play. Shadowlands, played casually but didn't pvp. DF, played pretty casually up until now (2 kids now I'm a boomer, I know). Now I've caught the pvp bug again. I cannot get people who are like 1700 CR to invite me to a 3s group because I haven't been 2.5k+ this expansion.
In DF I hit 2.1k on rogue, boomy, and mage in SS playing extremely casually and in almost all honor gear. I know how to play the game, but it's like if you're not recent 2.8k xp applying to a 2.2k CR group you have no shot. I'd like to push glad, I know I'm capable, but the gatekeeping is actually crazy.
Hey I just best wizk at 2200 the other day does that make me good
Hitting 2.1 in shuffle just isn’t good enough. You need to hit at least elite in SS make friends through that
Imagine if they had rated 3s in a group finder like solo queue. You and your buddy don’t have a healer, join a queue and get thrown into a 3s match with a healer that queued up that’s at your rating/mmr and after the game you can queue up again if you wanted to
I couldn't agree with this more. I'm a casual player that is willing to put more time into PVP which is my favorite aspect of WOW but the giga dweebs in LFG is insufferable
Just give SS legend a mount , variation to the glad mount ,and call it Legend mount of the season and that's all.
Keep Gladiator tilte for 3s if U want , we just want equivalent rewards for people who don't have people to Q with.
> Because it's more accessible and convenient for any aging playerbase. Times they are a changing bruv
And why should it be changed? Like, this is the dumbest take oat I think. Imagine feeling you should be rewarded because you're aging. What a meme. Literally has nothing to do with age its just a skill issue. People use it as acover but in reality they want it in shuffles because they're probably 2.4k in shuffle and 1600 peak in 3s. Nowadays people in games feel so entitled to get everything handed to them lmao, people want everything without actually being good at the game. Back then everyone who wanted it grinded for it and got it, rightfully so. Idk whats up with the participation trophies people are asking for
Agreed (and i am one of the old bois with 2600 XP), however if you truly want wow brought into the modern era of like the year 2010+, remove the shuffle shit. You Q, you play, no whining about being a fking special boi exception with sensitive comps and whatever other idiocy. Shuffle is an objectively bad and detrimental format. It actively discourages ppl from playing healers for starters. Make arena skirmish rated and be done with this asinine bs.
The people clutching their imaginary pearls reeeing that it'll be too easy to get a fucking mount in an MMO is hilarious.
3s deserves to die if it means those players leave.
Give us a renown track btw. Every other game has one
Pretty much my point. For some reason there is a population of arena purists stuck in tbc or wrath when this game was popular. It's niche now. Shuffle is the most mainstream we've got. Might as well normalize the rewards.
id be cool with this as long as they fix mmr first or make rewards percentage based. getting 2400+ with a top tier melee class is infinitely easier than a caster dps which is far easier than getting 2400 as a healer. As long as its percentage based so players cant just hop on a DH or whatever melee is most busted and get a free 2400+ and win requirement for mount which is unlocked for entire account. its far too easy. if they did percentage based on your spec then id have no problem w this even if it means you get glad mount at 2300 rating as a healer and 2650 as a melee dps.
I've been playing casually and I still prefer threes because otherwise it takes too long to get games as a DPS for me to even get a game in. They need to fix DPS queue times before they do anything else imo
They should do that the top X % of player of a spec at the end of season get the glad mount, something like 5% maybe, but lets be honest they will never do something like that, they are just way too afraid of all the kek streamer who will non stop bark
Flex queue would be goated
Shuffle is so scuff, I hate fast dampening, it discourages PvP and just do a lot of dam and you will win from instant cc and parsing
Sure, agrees all that. Take out dampening. Add duo Q. Add healer incentives. Making glad and glad mount attainable in shuffle will instantly drop Q times as more healers play it
People shitting on SS as being simplistic, like 3s is kind of a 4D chess game or nuclear fusion. It's as complicated as a Yugioh tutorial, I use offensive cd, they use defensive cd. Oh wow you chained cc's clap clap.
Stop gate keeping. You want 3s? Stay in wow classic or tbc or woltk whatever. It's not like you like retail anyway.
Gonna be the hot take here, but honestly, no.
I think the rewards should be something entirely separate for shuffle.
Shuffle is basically its own content. It shares no overlap with traditional arena beyond the 3s format, but it's playstyle and effort are completely different. therefore it shouldn't share rewards.
I think having its own titles, mounts, rewards, etc should be a thing to create visibility. You deserve to be noticed for grinding out games with some of the most toxic shit heads to ever grace this game. The frustration is real. Receiving rage tells are a common occurrence. Having a derpy teammate you have to strap to your back to get net positive is an entire thing. There is a mental effort that goes beyond simple skill and play refinement.
If that doesn't deserve its own recognition, idk what does.
Would be interesting to see a combined ladder, people can queue up solo or with a premade and play a singular game and not 6 rounds. Just need to make sure premadea prio queue into other premades if possible.
Why don't they make a duos solo shuffle que option? It seems so smart, duos doesn't require a healer and would he instant ques. It is an easier entry point for pvp as there is less happening and will allows people to learn new specs.
I'm still pretty convinced that the slitherdrake glad mount from this xpac was made to be a shuffle mount but then blizzard pulled back on it out of concern for 3s.
I'm not holding my breath on the shuffle angle but maybe someday they'll budge and allow a proper solo / duo que in the 3s ladder. In hindsight while I think shuffle was a brilliant idea I do think just having solo / duo que in 3s would be healthier for the game and would give you the same (highly unlikely) avenue of being able to solo que your way to glad.
Also, OP, post this over on the actual WoW reddit.
See what the bulk of the playerbase thinks about this, which does matter contrary to what people here try to say.
Arenas are on life support and practically dead by most metrics anyways.
Hell, I'd wager the entire system needs an overhaul and the concept of what Gladiator is needs to go with an entirely new system like every other live service game uses needs to be put in instead. XIV overhauled their system and it's doing fine despite PvP never being really intended for that game. Now do that with a game where you had a faction system and wPvP / BGs out the gate with story / marketing connections.
Hoo.
I think they should unlock old pvp sets for transmog first.
But yea, you kind of bring up some good points. 3s kind of is a good old boys club. Rss is the path moving forwards. Now with rated solo bgs, 3s will become even more depopulated.
With all that being said, no one will respect the gladiator title as much anymore, especially if you’re just going for the mount
I couldn't agree with this more. I'm a casual player that is willing to put more time into PVP which is my favorite aspect of WOW but the giga dweebs in LFG is insufferable
Idc personally because honestly I’ll probably never play at quite that level, however I think a simple recolor of the current glad mount and a better title than soloist would work.
If they do that they need to make the rating required higher so it’s still the point whatever percent of the player base getting it so you’ll never see it anyway so what’s the point
I couldn't agree with this more. I'm a casual player that is willing to put more time into PVP which is my favorite aspect of WOW but the giga dweebs in LFG is insufferable
OP spitting facts that alot of people dont want to hear. Just make these share rewards so people can choose if they want to attain them by solo queuing or playing with friends. Its that simple.
I mean if glad rewards werent added to 2s which is a much harder bracket than ss and existed since the start of arena, i dont see why they would add it to ss now, especially only ss
if you genuinely don't know, it's because 2's is unbalanced.
So is ss? You heavily depend on the strength of your spec, in 2s you can atleast get a viable comp with any spec
Ss ie also more melee favored
Glad rewards were given to 2's, 3's, and 5's (RIP) until season 5
Negative. 2s requires the least amount of skill; even at high rating, it's more spec and comp than skill. SS does have lobbys that are both auto-wins and auto-losses. So yes, you can be lucky and get a rating that is insanely beyond your skill level, in addition to some classes thriving with far more comps than others. It is an obvious, common sense move to give glad rewards to SS, especially as it would further incentivize blizzard to develop class balance; success shouldn't only be available if you play 1-2 comps.
What facts mate, there’s a reason they don’t give season rewards in lfr, that’s the problem with society now a days, people contributing a piece of their mind when they don’t have any mind to spare.
Here sir, you dropped your meds. 
Says the one with no mind to spare
Shit should just be called soloq, duoq, trioq or w/e so we can stop pretending it's not and move the focus to soloq lile every single game does. Just keep ''trioq'' (a bit kek) as the main competitive format but the game needs soloq to survive
> but the game needs soloq to survive Wrong. It literally doesn't. What it needs is consistent updates and balancing to the game. Retail PvP is dead not because of LFG even if you people seem to think so, its dead because in the last 4 expansions you've received a total of 200 lines in patch notes. If Blizzard literally gave a single shit about PvP it would've been blooming.
I don't want to lose the ability to queue with friends, so I hope SS turns into solo queue and combines the brackets player base together. That way I can queue up when I'm on my own, and I can queue up with friend when they are on. SS was a fun experiment but I don't think it works as well in practice.
As someine who doesn't like to pug, SS saved wow pvp for me while allowing me do drop the toxic people I had been playing with for years.... yeah obv ss has its.issues, but I'll never forget that feeling of empowerment when the guy I had been playing with started shitting on me in comms (like he always did after a few drinks) and being able to say you know what,ive had enough... I can get my needs met in shuffle....deuces.
Solo queue would be better. LFG is basically a solo queue these days anyway, except you have to sign up to groups. You then play 5-10 games, someone rages and you go again. May as well automate it at that point.
Yeah I still want to be able to queue up solo, just not into SS. A solo queue that works like skirmish.
You could always just.. not play with a guy drinking and find someone nicer. That’s what i did.
If you've got an issue of playing with toxic ppl for years that issue is on you dude. A standard solo Q would still provide all of these benefits.
Have you attempted getting better? 😏
As others have said have a true solo or the ability to go duo q vs others also in duo
I think if there were more healers queuing it would have been a massive success, but getting them to queue is hard. I personally don’t want to queue into duos in shuffle when I’m playing by myself. People already boost in shuffle by lining up queue times and it feels like that would make it worse.
When I say queue with friends I mean like a solo queue, the same way skirmishes work. One round games, not shuffle.
W post. Imagine if to play ranked league, or overwatch you had to premade to 5 people to queue. what a joke
Yeah now imagine if your team in league got 4 adcs while enemy team gets a balanced comp. Thats pmuch what shuffle is atm
Do you even play league? You get filled into a role. We select roles in WoW just like league. So you wouldn’t get 4adcs, same as you wouldn’t get 2 healers and a dps lol
Thats exactly my point we have healer and dps roles while league has draft and better split up roles, which makes the games less rmg
Doesn't League have assigned roles to avoid this? Like every game needs a support, a top or mid laner, etc.
I’m conflicted, because my favorite mode is 2v2 and I don’t want it to die, but as a healer I haven’t touched solo shuffle in several months (and don’t plan on ever touching it again). I would be fine with solo queue, where you just team up like skirms for one quick round, but the anxiety of knowing you could end up in a bad lobby for 40 minutes is just too much for me lol. So overall I want solo queue (not shuffle), but if it’s going to stay shuffle, I’ll continue to not queue it and tell every healer I know to steer clear of it so it dies in a sea of DPS mains waiting in queue
Gl doing so. If 3s dies healers will shift too.
When did I say anything about killing off 3’s? Lol. I just don’t like solo shuffle, that’s the one I want to go away.
I was interpreting "if shuffle stays" as when 3s died
>So overall I want solo queue (not shuffle), but if it’s going to stay shuffle, I’ll continue to not queue it and tell every healer I know to steer clear of it so it dies in a sea of DPS mains waiting in queue Stay mad.
Reddit moment lol. Please re-read that verrrry carefully. “If the solo mode stays ‘shuffle’ like it is, I won’t queue the solo shuffle mode” I really only play 2’s and 3’s at the moment, it’s solo shuffle I don’t like and don’t play lol. I’d only play a “solo” version if it was one round like skirmish. Thankfully you’re the only one that didn’t understand that lol
Eh? I got that part. I didn't quote that part! I'm the same as you - a healer whose favourite mode is 2s and wishes shuffle was normal 3s solo q as well. Committing to 6 of those games at a time puts me off. In total agreement with everything you said in the first 2 paragraphs. Why don't you reread my post? I just found your last paragraph amusing. Your reply to me was peak reddit actually.
Don’t try to “AHKCHUALLY” me with your “I know you are but what am I” response
That isn't what happened lol. You just continue to make things up any time you're replying to me. Stay mad.
Look at my upvotes and your downvotes… 
lol
Where is that bacon guy? Hasn't commented on this yet, hoping he's okay
he's in the shower, pondering why the game is dying.
No, do not reward solo-ist behavior as it works against the core concept of the entire genre and you end up with the cesspool that is current WoW. Gladiator rewards being removed from 2s happened because it was a god awful fotm'ing hellscape. Shuffle should remain a casual game mode of luck of the draw. Your next Reddit campaign should be to reintroduce RNG CC.
I acknowledge shuffle keeping a lot of people in PvP but god I fucking hate it. It doesn’t matter what I play it’s just kinda unhealthy for me so I keep to my happy 2s and 3s and let the zoomers do whatever they do in ss
I just came back to wow, last playing in MoP. I am a dad, I own a business, and I don’t have time to LFG. Shuffle is here forever and is healthy for wow pvp, get on board or get off the boat.
Stay in your lane then. If I’m happy playing 2s and 3s why should I stop playing the game? Not like I’m purposely qing ss and leaving to deliberately fuck you over. I’ve been playing since mop and have responsibilities now too but somehow manage a social life and good work life balance.
I apologize, I was getting irritated with the general sentiment in this thread and kinda let it out here. My bad.
It’s all good man. At the end of the day you and I like different things and that’s fine luckily they exist. Appreciate the apology, cheers.
That being said, I would love to do 3s someday but my way in is to improve at shuffle, raise my rank and meet people through it to do so.
I think blizzard intends to make battlegrounds the future of wow pvp not shuffle. Personally i feel like a mmorpg the best rewards should be from team content\\coordination. Your first issue about the fact its full of rank 1s, all they have to do is make gladiator a account wide thing when calculating the %s at end of season so random people with 20 glad shamans dont take up spots which would increase the pool of players getting glad. 3v3 is not as rewarding as solo shuffle for most players. Solo shuffle is easier to just jump in and play whenever you want to get the rewards and conquest you need for power. It takes way longer to find friends a group to play with and organize a time to play for 3v3 than it does in solo shuffle. Its also so much easier to push rating in solo shuffle as a normal player than it is in 3v3. Blizzard has purposefully killed 3v3 by making the rewards trash and the rating difficult to push. Most of those issues above can be fixed without throwing away coordinated group play by putting all the rewards in solo shuffle which is basically just pve/dps off for most classes. Wow pvp was better when it wasnt all about your damage done at the end of the round. Solo shuffle is trash.
BGs are the future of nothing. Blizz says this for the casuals. Rated solo q BGs as a viable game mode is the most copium thing in WoW PvP. You have zero agency over the match and it feels like shit. Not to mention there’s zero tuning for rated BG, everything is tuned for 3v3 and that won’t change. I’ll get downvoted by Andy’s that don’t understand the game, that’s fine. But this is the truth.
I'm fairly sure rated solo bgs will bring a massive number of new players into pvp and that can't be a bad thing at all, probably a number much much higher than the entire current population of wow pvp. If something like that happens, eventually those numbers might trickle down to arena, you can't possibly see that as a bad thing. Wow pvp needs a point of entry right now and solo shuffle despite being a mode that got a lot of popularity, it still did that only amongst the arena community and a very very small subsection of dabblers(mostly now in s4) It is of my opinion that since it'll be a valid form of gearing and progression, we might end up seeing a growth akin to that of m+
> You have zero agency over the match and it feels like shit Yup, come ranked blitz a lot of DPS are going to discover first-hand one of the reasons so many of us healers don't enjoy healing shuffle - and as a DPS in a BG (even only an 8 vs 8) they'll have even less impact than healers in shuffle, certainly not enough to consistently/reliably carry games.
I think you're really underestimating the impact of a single player, especially in the smaller blitz format. One DPS who understands the tremendous value in tying down a healer to a point is already massive.
It's just not the same level of impact by a long shot. Imagine some multi-R1 player on a fresh char in a 1600 shuffle lobby, they're almost certainly going 6-0 (and if not then definitely at least 4 or 5 wins). Take that same player and drop them in a 1600 8v8 and yes their team has a *higher* chance of winning, but it's far from guaranteed. Good players will still climb of course, but it'll be closer to the rate (most) healers climb in shuffle rather than how quickly good DPS are able to.
Pit a multi r1 healir on a shuffle 1600 lobby and he would most likely go 5-1 or 6-0 too. Healers who complain that they cant carry games are supposed to be in that rating and arent as good as they think they are. There are tons of healer diff lobbies where all dps go 3-3 and one healer sweepes.
Of course an R1 healer is sweeping a 1600 lobby, absolutely nobody is disputing that. Most of us aren't R1 players getting thrown in lobbies 1500 points below our skill level though - and so what we're saying when we say healers have less impact is that in a lobby where the players are all of roughly similar skill, a DPS only needs to outperform *slightly* to walk away with more than three wins - whereas a healer needs to outperform *significantly*.
No damp in bgs. This is the best thing to happen to healers in ranked pvp ever. While dps have less control in rbg, healers have greater control in rbg because we don't get our keyboards turned off at 3 min.
Agreed. Unless perhaps it is a very small number of people like 5 on 5 and an objective that encourages actual pvp
📠📠📠📠📠📠
100%. Rated BG’s are for smooth brains that don’t want to take the time to ACTUALLY learn PvP. Rated BG’s come down to - 1: who has better gear 2: who has more arena glads on their team. I’ve never lost a rated game with a full 10 stack of glads including myself unless we were just trolling. Not trying to boast but it’s the truth - you got the 2.4 bg only Andy’s who come up with “choke point strategies” nah man just chain cc on healers/ keep track of DR’s/trinkets and do normal 3v3 esque go’s. Works every single match at “high RBG MMR”. Which leads me to another point, good luck actually tracking EVERYBODYS DRs in a wild solo BG enviornment - game modes a pure crapshoot and only useful for gearing for arena early season. Andy’s gonna hate on this but it’s the absolute truth. If wow pvp were a casino, BG’s are the slot machines, while arena is poker (especially solo environments such as arena/blitz)
While I agree about the impact a single dps can have in each of the modes. I will counter with sometimes I just wanna drink some wine chill, maybe smoke a bit, and just play some bgs that are little more competitive than normal bgs. It’s a way different vibe. Sometimes that’s the vibe you’re going for.
Yes that’s a different story. It’s sometimes fun to chill in BG’s but if rated BG’s didn’t award bigger conquest gains I’d way rather just play normals or if I don’t care about conquest usually by mid-late season I just chill in normals with some buddies occasionally in between long arena sessions. I’m specifically talking about the edgelords who try to make a massive deal about RBG’s being the prime hardcore “pvp mode” because it’s not, far far from it. I say this and I’ve been 2300 in rated BG’s because the conquest grind was unreal those seasons so was forced to play RBG’s more than I’d like in order to get my alts gear’d up quicker for arena
Rated BGs come down to who has better gear? When everybody has the same gear past like 1500 anyways? The fuck lmao. Tell me you've never actually pushed RBGs while frothing at the mouth for any chance to demand arenas are somehow superior while it's also dying.
Knew the Andy’s would come out. 1800-2k in LFG (depending on season) no shortage of “farming conquest YOLO’s” listed. While 1400-1600 is filled with “alt farm”. I guarantee I’ve been higher than you in RBG’s because I’ve been forced to run them in seasons past because CQ grinds were unreal early season. It’s a joke of a game mode and rated blitz will be the killer of it. Look at how many consistent teams there are at the top of the ladder vs arena. 100-1000s in arena and like 5 for RBG’s - that shows what’s really dying. 2300 RBG’s I will sit there and watch a mage try to sheep a feral or a rogue DR kidney into a warrior storm bolt and no one says a word about it, it’s unreal. RBGs come down to - gear - then who has more arena gladiators as I’ve said before. Goodluck as a bunch of Andy’s vs 10 glads who can actually mental track DR’s/know how to properly chain cc/ trade defensives/ swap on defensives and trinkets. The amount of discords id hop in at 2300 where no one’s calling their CD’s or stuns/restuns/cc is standard for course. It’s always just the “leader” calling choke point strategy’s/ telling DK to grip blind and ww to sweep which is 1800 cr arena shit. Or shouting FOCUS ONE TARGET X like a mongrel in team fights still or sending 5 here 4 there.
When you guys dragged me into those 2400 games it was a fucking sweat fest. Arenas are just as scripted as RBGs roo. Not sure what this dudes smoking.
BG’s are more about PVEing. Everyone just PVEing the “raid boss” down mindsets - fuck trying to CC/keep track of 3 enemy healers when you can just try to pop all 7 offensive CDs into a single target. 3’s you aren’t getting past 1800 with that mindset, RBGs you can be 2200+ with it. Ideally you should be fighting 3v3s on each cap/tower 1 healer with 2 DPS on each (3 healers 6 dps) but RBG’s are more of a Zerg pve mentality because if you don’t have glads+ those 3v3s are 110 % lost to those who are. This is why when I’d 10 man with other glads we’d consistently stomp at high CR, winning 3v4s and 3v5s on objectives. Understand that if all the top arena rank 1’s went insane and wanted to take over the RBG game they could do it in a heartbeat but RBG’s are a casual mode so it’ll never happen and why it hasn’t.
Glad hasnt been %-based since legion, and they made r1 not take up multiple slots in dragonflight. Glad is just 2.4 50 wins, hence why glad was so easy in unchained when the season was super inflated and the top of the Ladder was 3000-3600cr instead of 2600-3200 cr
>Your first issue about the fact its full of rank 1s, all they have to do is make gladiator a account wide thing when calculating the %s at end of season so random people with 20 glad shamans dont take up spots which would increase the pool of players getting glad. You don't even know how glad works, why have an authoritative take on something you don't understand on a basic level
Solo shuffle is not more rewarding. It’s far more rewarding to group with my friends and get eh achievements than with randoms. The only reason solo shuffle is more popular is because you can just click a button and be in queue. Threes takes more work to find a group and actual communication skills which people playing wow don’t like. It’s that simple.
Rewards in terms of that its easier to get rating in solo shuffle than 3s. The skill level required to get 2.2k in solo shuffle is lower than it is to get the same in 3v3. Also on top of that while it may be more fun to play with people, the time it takes to organize and set that up is pretty high compared to just queueing solo shuffle.
I agree with making gladiator account wide. That would make the path less miserable for everyone to avoid alt after alt of the same people... But I'm so tired of the take that 3s sucks because it's just for r1 people.... First of all I'm not that good. 1800 lifer... But like the goal or the dream is to get better and get my rating up to be able to play with those people. And that's what I'm working for. Games get boring if you achieve the highest goal you're after. Plus ..... You don't change the rules of professional sports just so middle aged amateurs can keep up ... And crying about it just makes you one of the poor sport amateurs.... So yes.... Good take Sir
Gladiator has been accountwide since sl prepatch. The mounts are anyways. Maybe i missunderstood your post so feel free to correct me.
I stopped reading your post when you said BGs were the future of WoW PVP. Not trying to be toxic just...
Well sadly that's literally what blizz said in a dev interview, so buckle up cowboy.
You didnt watch the dev interview did you?
WoW is an MMO btw.
I have been pushing glad since DF s1. That season I got to 2100ish. S2 I got to 2200ish. S3 i got to 2300ish. And now i am hovering around 2300 but i finally found solid teammates to push with and I am confident we will get it this season or next. If they made glad available in shuffle i would quit the game. There is already Legend for shuffle. What I think they should do is give a recolored glad mount for that. That way glads will still have their bragging rights and shufflers will feel more properly rewarded for their hard work. But just giving glad to shufflers would ruin arena. 3s is the heart of arena. When I get Legend in shuffle (which is way easier then glad) it feels cool but definitely not the same at all.
'3s is the heart of arena' Maybe it was. But it isn't any more. Shuffle is the heart of arena by a long shot looking at participation
Ya was mostly talking from my perspective. I would quit if they did
So you're only incentive to playing WoW is getting the Gladiator title and gatekeeping anyone else from getting it? When you do finally hit 2400, you will find that it's easier to do it again, and eventually it'll just be natural for you. At that point will you quit when you notice an increase in lesser skilled players on FOTM classes hitting Glad?
No I am just saying I actually enjoy the "push" and how hard and grueling it is. It makes me feel like it is the pinnacle of "achievement" in wow pvp besides r1. And so if they suddenly changed the difficulty by a significant amount to where I could immediately get it..it would feel meaningless and that last two years of work would all go out the window. I want it to be incredibly hard to get but I get its just a personal opinion. Either way..they need to add more rewards..not take or recycle rewards away. We need a whole renown system.
I’m going through that now but doesn’t keep me from playing
Shuffle #s are going into the dirt when solo q bgs drop sorry to tell you It’ll deflate and you’ll back to being peak 1800
Just because ss came out and ruined arena doesn’t make arena less than the heart
> Shuffle is the heart of arena by a long shot looking at participation Wild take, just looking at participation. It's a new mode added for 60 year old boomers with zero skill and zero idea how to find LFG teammates so they go into shuffle and wait 40 mins for queue. Heart of arena is still 3's and 2's by far and that's where the actual pvpers are, not the casuals. Solo shuffle is a meme game in a meme format which resembles nothing that of normal arenas and frankly, is a joke to the game. The fact you believe shuffle deserves glad level rewards is insane, when it requires probably 1% of the skill to reach 2.4k in ss as it does in 3s. That's being generous, too.
I'm sensing some FAT DH fotm 2400 Solo, 1800 3v3, energy from this post....
Healer main but nice try. Shuffle is just a more convenient bracket for the masses. Make the cutoffs higher if the rated 3s 'purists' QQ because it's to easy. Rated 3s is an antiquated system no other game requires you to party up before hand to compete. Time for a change
Healer that can't find partner is a huge red flag.
Never said I had issues getting groups. Shuffle is just a more convenient game face the facts rated 3s is dying
Shuffle is convenient because you get instant Ques, and your win/losses are practically never up to how well you played and more about how the dice rolled with the lobby you got into. I've been watching Ven heal to 2400 on Hpal and the fact that he plays like it's blizzcon on the line while the other healer just dawdles in mid field unpunished and still goes 3-3 or what not says a lot about how RNG rating is for healers. If a caster played as sloppy as a healer gets away with they'd be stuck at 1600 due to the melee hellhole that is RSS.
Im getting 1.2k ss and 1.2k 3v3s energy from this.
Something isn’t dying just because you don’t like to play it. It’s still very much active lol
I like to play 3s, it doesn't change the facts. The amount of copium you have to say 3s bracket is 'alive and well' is just so wrong. Look at the numbers of people queuing ranked versus shuffle. It's a small percentage.
Pvp overall is a small percentage of wows player base. Just because you don’t play 3s doesn’t mean the 3s bracket is dying lol you’re just being stubborn in proving that your theory is correct. Sorry but 3s is still rocking and whether you want to believe it or not is on you.
Whether you want to believe in numbers is also up to you.
It dies because nobody CAN play it.
bruh, i sit in lfg for hours looking for 2200+ dps to play with. lol Theres just so few players at that rating in 3's who dont have a group already. My friends list is a graveyard of disappearing dps.
Yeah you right. All of the competitors for Worlds just show up and they roll the dice for who gets Faker every year. The super bowl every year they just make duplicates of the jerseys for each player so after they flip a coin they know which team they're on. Mythic+ and World first Mythic raids are no different, it's just LFR with gigachads that somehow all coordinate properly. What fuckin' legends.
Is league really the best example? You get all the rewards (like glad should be) from SoloQ lol. You also get opportunities to tryout for pro teams through your SoloQ performance.
true and real 
And this is the problem with PvP.
haha as if people don't squeeze out rating playing FOTM despite being noobs in regular 3v3
Solo shuffle may be the most popular bracket because it's the most accessible 24/7, but everyone who has ever played WoW PvP knows that 3v3 is the best expression of WoW PvP skill and should award the highest rewards. Suggesting otherwise is complete cope. If you guys were arguing for solo shuffle to have its own mounts or cosmetics, it could be a supportable idea, but awarding Gladiator in shuffle is just not going to ever happen, nor should it. 3s and solo shuffle are two completely separate games and should have separate rewards.
Awarding Gladiator in solo shuffle IS a supportable idea. The game is quite old, and incentivizing people to not only participate, but try to improve is important for it's longevity. Arena has been out since 2007 - 17 years after release, why should the title be gate-kept? I would argue that even in 2010 WoTLK it was losing the prestige it had in TBC. I remember selling rating to people on my realm who were noobs. Maybe that doesn't happen as much anymore? If it doesn't I suspect it's due to lack of interest.
Selling Carries for glad (in terms of percentages of glad titles obtained now) is probably higher than it's ever been
> Solo shuffle may be the most popular bracket because it's the most accessible 24/7, but everyone who has ever played WoW PvP knows that 3v3 is the best expression of WoW PvP skill and should award the highest rewards. Suggesting otherwise is complete cope. If you guys were arguing for solo shuffle to have its own mounts or cosmetics, it could be a supportable idea, but awarding Gladiator in shuffle is just not going to ever happen, nor should it. 3s and solo shuffle are two completely separate games and should have separate rewards. Amen, most reasonable and the only good take on this thread, tbh. Most of the others are just participation trophy dudes who are to bad at the game and won't admit it. It's just muh lfg faultt i cant climb in 3s, yet they sit in 40 min queues getting carried in SS's zugzug game mode. Meme
> 3v3 is the best expression of WoW PvP skill […] Suggesting otherwise is complete cope. \> 10x Glad | Hero | r1 Legend 3v3 is the best expression of coordinated WoW PvP skill. Surely given your experience you’d agree that solo shuffle is a slightly different skill set that isn’t directly translatable at high ranks. You can’t expect teammates and enemies to behave the same way they do in 3v3, precisely because you can’t communicate with them. Suggesting otherwise is complete cope, an effort to defend your favorite game mode from falling into total irrelevance.
>3s and solo shuffle are two completely separate games and should have separate rewards.
Sure, let’s explore that. How about we make the more popular game mode the “official” one and move the gladiator title/mount into solo shuffle? Instead of a mount, 3v3 can have some kind of old boys club “congrats on being here since vanilla” firework or something equally flippant.
> solo shuffle is a slightly different skill set that isn’t directly translatable at high ranks. Zero skill sets needed in SS, you can literally be carried to 2.4k with ease and you're expecting for glad rewards, what a joke, imagine arguing that there's a skillset in a gamemode reliant on targetting the squishiest target in chat before the game and zugzuging him all day vs non-communicating teams, and at 2.4k rating are a 1500 3v3 player at best, peak. Cope more
But how many R1s wanna queue 3v3 in LFG looking for games, but they wont voice. Then after 1 or 2 losses they just screech and leave. Not much different than SS in a lot of cases.
You're hanging onto the notion that glad titles have to come from ranked 3s. Give ranked something else (dif title of mount color) if you want something exclusive. The way the game has shifted glad should be attainable from the most common pvp arena game variant. Yes it's a melee pve fest and rng half the time. So is ranked with some matchups. People just have to let go of this glad=ranked 3s title only mentality.
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Leave Gladiator alone as it is the 3v3 title... Solo has Legend. Give Legend a recolor mount if you must. Solo is not and never will be as difficult or as prestigious as 3s. The "most popular bracket" doesn't mean it gets the best reward. The most difficult and highest expression of skill gets the best reward. Should we hand out Gladiator for BG Blitz if it becomes the most popular bracket next season?
BGs and arena are different game variants completely so no
Agreed just because it’s popular doesn’t mean it gets a glad mount for being popular rated
Yes, actually. Maybe people will actually play it in numbers that aren't just niche minigame levels of participation.
This. 3s are dead. Stop fucking malding over a shitty mount.
> Stop fucking malding over a shitty mount. It's funny that you say this. The replies had been civil, but you're the one with the aggressive language and saying any disagreement with you is "complete cope". I guess it's not malding. You sound terrified.
Great idea. Just a drake? Lower resolution, not much armor. That‘s enough for SS.
>10x Glad | Hero | r1 Legend > Suggesting otherwise is complete cope. I don't play shuffle and don't really care either way about the situation, but this just backs up what the OP is saying and no one should listen to anything you say.
> trash player, nothing to contribute No one should listen to you.
They don't! And I love it when people take the title I gave myself at face value.
3s will immediately die if this happens. Just make another mount for Legends, that's all.
Then it dies a natural death.
While AWC is still exist, it won't. 3s bracket is not the same 3v3 as in shuffle, there are a things named teamplay, setups, different dempening, etc. Different game => different achievements, that's why legends has to have their own mount and title, gladiators - their own. So, Blizzard, just give a mount for SS. Maybe, for 2x2 and RBGs too.
I’d rather it die a natural death than an instantaneous one
> Then it dies a natural death. Natural? It will inevitably die because of people who are too bad at the game to admit and realize it so they're crying for changes and easier access and easier game modes so they can get some sort of pixels in game resembling a higher rating than their peak rating at 1500, and somehow for the first time in their life be proud of their inflated rating, and inflated rewards. Bunch of participation trophy kids who has to feel a reward without working for it because they're "owed" it. Times were better when everyone knew it was a unique reward and people didn't cry about it because they didn't feel entitled. It's too hard to achieve (still) to this day for a lot of people but now they're just crying because they can't get it instead of trying to earn it. That's what ruined and kills wow pvp in the end. The crybaby adults.
For better or worse, people are gravitating towards solo queue. Threes is dying out because there is so much to pick from, and they just arent picking retail threes. Solo queue has its problems, but it is ultimately, way more accessible than threes. Nobody is to blame. Times change. Edit: it may not sound like it, but i understand where you are coming from, by the way.
Then maybe it should if that’s all that is keeping it alive.
This is what I think as well. Mount for Legend, Mount/title for Blitz, Mount for Glad. Give people a reason to grind them all. Hell I even think 2s should have a unique reward, but balance can be so wonky in 2s that might not work.
It wouldn't be any different than the ret paladins getting free mounts s1
Agree. Even just having some stupid recoloured version would be a completely different motivation for ppl. As long as solo que remains treated as something inferior by the devs, ppl will not care about pvp or pushing beyond set transmogs. With two color variations, the 0.5% of ppl can keep their pride from 3s and the rest of the player base can have their fun as well, with minimal development requirements from Scamzzars, I mean Blizzard.
It's already on life support. Let it die then.
I think they should make a new mount specific to Shuffle. I don't think Glad should be from SS. I'm going to be brutally honest, SS is a low skill game mode with a lot of RNG, flame me if you want, but you basically run in and pve zug until dampening ramps up and hope you can secure a kill when your offensives rotate up for a 2nd time. I find there are minimal "outplay" moments, you literally just zug. 3v3 takes coordination and teamwork, it's an entirely different experience. I just grinded 2400 in 2s on my marks hunter with my buddy, we were feeling it for some reason. After we got 2400 in 2s I was like well what do I do now? My marks was like 1600 in SS, so I decided to push SS, I got to 2500 in like 2 days of mindless marks pve zugging, running pet stun + binding to 2x stun/trap the healer, almost 0 kiting, I was basically a bot, and that's all it took to get to 2500 lol. I had to actually try hard and use my brain 10x that in 2s if I am being honest. While I absolutely love that there is a solo q pvp mode, the current iteration is so low on skill and so pve feeling, I really don't think this should reward Glad. But a unique SS mount would be cool, seems like they could do a mount for each bracket, I don't see why that'd be difficult.
> 2 days of mindless marks pve zugging, running pet stun + binding to 2x stun/trap the healer, almost 0 kiting, I was basically a bot, and that's all it took to get to 2500 lol. I had to actually try hard and use my brain 10x that in 2s if I am being honest. SHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Don't say that, that's all the brain capacity these participation trophy casuals have enough for, if that. Yet they want participation trophies in a meme gamemode and meme format that translates into a 1500 3v3 rating. it's a joke
It should be for every rated bracket. Not having glad in everything is the dumbest shit possible. Just recolor the mounts or make badass ground mounts for 2s, shuffles, blitz
Pls no.
I'll throw gasoline into the fire; Allow it to be obtained from every bracket. Then see which brackets are the ones people are actually playing off that.
LFG drove me away from pvp long time ago, and solo shuffle drove me back in. Thing is, after few weeks, the queue times of solo shuffle as a dps drove me to healing, and then out of pvp again lol So while I completely agree that more focus should be shifted into SS, I also think that it should be designed to be attractive for new players, and the first thing a new player is introduced to when trying this game mode, is the queue time. And to be honest, if as a new player I sat in queue for 45 minutes, I wouldn't like this game mode no matter how well designed the system is. I know I'd receive hate for this line of thinking, but since the player base of pvp gets smaller by the day, I really think that the best action to take now in order to save it is to completely remove the 2v2 and 3v3 brackets, and just allows players to either queue as solo or as duos in solo shuffle. I know it ain't a perfect solution, but it will make pvp very accessible to new players and will for sure reduce queue times for everyone
Delete shuffle from game pls
Shuffle is pretty much the only thing keeping PvP somewhat alive. No one gives a shit about the 3 rank 1s left in the game circle jerking Glad every season, people just want to queue and play.
Why do people say shit like this lol, wow pvp playerbase still dominates a vast majority of pvp games out there lol. In NA you can find queues at most ratings (outside of R1 players) at nearly any time. 3s is far from dead, you can get instant queues up to 2400 right now easily.
It's not going anywhere. Quit riding your bike to work and accept shuffle is by far the most common arena variant
What kind of insult is this? What are arena players snorting to think that's actually a negative?
> The biggest counterpoint to this is that “it will kill ranked 3s” The biggest counterpoint is actually that every issue you raised could be addressed by just combining the ladders with a flex q system which would provide essentially everyone with what they *say* they want. The issue is that there are a significant number of people who actually only really want glad in shuffle because it’s easier to get, so they find problems with flex q because they’d still actually have to improve to get it.
There's be enough people on a flex ladder we wouldn't be having the conversations we're having, honestly. More bodies of all skill levels, especially lower, does mean with proper inflation / turning that CR based rewards would be easier to obtain, but that's actually a good thing. Anybody pissed off 2% of players over .4% of players can obtain a cosmetic are fucking nuts anyways, and don't need to be listened to. That's still an extreme minority and something most people will never see.
Just recolour the mount, have two seperate mounts imo. I know a lot of people don’t want to hear this, but solo is way way easier to get high rated at because it’s a different game all together.
This is a MMO, not a solo player game. I’m fine with giving players solo content to do, but it should not replace content that’s meant for premade groups. If I want to play a solo player game, WoW is no where near my first choice. If you want solo content to reward everything premade content does, you’re asking for WoW to turn into this: https://preview.redd.it/m4h9o6qq678d1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a34790ef3581b07ebe80828eba72123cb81472eb
I think I'm in a not so unique position as a lot of long time WoW players that think LFG/classic 3v3 is pretty fucked. I've been playing since late vanilla, got glad in WotLK + Cata and played at 2650+ as recent as legion. I've beaten a lot of tournament players on the ladder back in the day. But for BFA I hit my 2100 to get the enchant, didn't play. Shadowlands, played casually but didn't pvp. DF, played pretty casually up until now (2 kids now I'm a boomer, I know). Now I've caught the pvp bug again. I cannot get people who are like 1700 CR to invite me to a 3s group because I haven't been 2.5k+ this expansion. In DF I hit 2.1k on rogue, boomy, and mage in SS playing extremely casually and in almost all honor gear. I know how to play the game, but it's like if you're not recent 2.8k xp applying to a 2.2k CR group you have no shot. I'd like to push glad, I know I'm capable, but the gatekeeping is actually crazy.
Hey I just best wizk at 2200 the other day does that make me good Hitting 2.1 in shuffle just isn’t good enough. You need to hit at least elite in SS make friends through that
Imagine if they had rated 3s in a group finder like solo queue. You and your buddy don’t have a healer, join a queue and get thrown into a 3s match with a healer that queued up that’s at your rating/mmr and after the game you can queue up again if you wanted to
I couldn't agree with this more. I'm a casual player that is willing to put more time into PVP which is my favorite aspect of WOW but the giga dweebs in LFG is insufferable
agree
Just give SS legend a mount , variation to the glad mount ,and call it Legend mount of the season and that's all. Keep Gladiator tilte for 3s if U want , we just want equivalent rewards for people who don't have people to Q with.
Pls no. Remove soloshuffle and everthing is good!
no. because solo shuffle isn't close to as hard as normal 3s are, literally a zugzug fiesta with zero comms or coordination. why would u reward that?
Because it's more accessible and convenient for any aging playerbase. Times they are a changing bruv
> Because it's more accessible and convenient for any aging playerbase. Times they are a changing bruv And why should it be changed? Like, this is the dumbest take oat I think. Imagine feeling you should be rewarded because you're aging. What a meme. Literally has nothing to do with age its just a skill issue. People use it as acover but in reality they want it in shuffles because they're probably 2.4k in shuffle and 1600 peak in 3s. Nowadays people in games feel so entitled to get everything handed to them lmao, people want everything without actually being good at the game. Back then everyone who wanted it grinded for it and got it, rightfully so. Idk whats up with the participation trophies people are asking for
Agreed (and i am one of the old bois with 2600 XP), however if you truly want wow brought into the modern era of like the year 2010+, remove the shuffle shit. You Q, you play, no whining about being a fking special boi exception with sensitive comps and whatever other idiocy. Shuffle is an objectively bad and detrimental format. It actively discourages ppl from playing healers for starters. Make arena skirmish rated and be done with this asinine bs.
Agree 100%.
The people clutching their imaginary pearls reeeing that it'll be too easy to get a fucking mount in an MMO is hilarious. 3s deserves to die if it means those players leave. Give us a renown track btw. Every other game has one
Pretty much my point. For some reason there is a population of arena purists stuck in tbc or wrath when this game was popular. It's niche now. Shuffle is the most mainstream we've got. Might as well normalize the rewards.
id be cool with this as long as they fix mmr first or make rewards percentage based. getting 2400+ with a top tier melee class is infinitely easier than a caster dps which is far easier than getting 2400 as a healer. As long as its percentage based so players cant just hop on a DH or whatever melee is most busted and get a free 2400+ and win requirement for mount which is unlocked for entire account. its far too easy. if they did percentage based on your spec then id have no problem w this even if it means you get glad mount at 2300 rating as a healer and 2650 as a melee dps.
I've been playing casually and I still prefer threes because otherwise it takes too long to get games as a DPS for me to even get a game in. They need to fix DPS queue times before they do anything else imo
Only if it’s queable with a partner
They should do that the top X % of player of a spec at the end of season get the glad mount, something like 5% maybe, but lets be honest they will never do something like that, they are just way too afraid of all the kek streamer who will non stop bark
Flex queue would be goated Shuffle is so scuff, I hate fast dampening, it discourages PvP and just do a lot of dam and you will win from instant cc and parsing
Sure, agrees all that. Take out dampening. Add duo Q. Add healer incentives. Making glad and glad mount attainable in shuffle will instantly drop Q times as more healers play it
People shitting on SS as being simplistic, like 3s is kind of a 4D chess game or nuclear fusion. It's as complicated as a Yugioh tutorial, I use offensive cd, they use defensive cd. Oh wow you chained cc's clap clap. Stop gate keeping. You want 3s? Stay in wow classic or tbc or woltk whatever. It's not like you like retail anyway.
Yea, I watched AWC and it felt like SS to me. Rarely did something happen till deep dampening or the healer OOMed...
Gonna be the hot take here, but honestly, no. I think the rewards should be something entirely separate for shuffle. Shuffle is basically its own content. It shares no overlap with traditional arena beyond the 3s format, but it's playstyle and effort are completely different. therefore it shouldn't share rewards. I think having its own titles, mounts, rewards, etc should be a thing to create visibility. You deserve to be noticed for grinding out games with some of the most toxic shit heads to ever grace this game. The frustration is real. Receiving rage tells are a common occurrence. Having a derpy teammate you have to strap to your back to get net positive is an entire thing. There is a mental effort that goes beyond simple skill and play refinement. If that doesn't deserve its own recognition, idk what does.
Would be interesting to see a combined ladder, people can queue up solo or with a premade and play a singular game and not 6 rounds. Just need to make sure premadea prio queue into other premades if possible.
Why don't they make a duos solo shuffle que option? It seems so smart, duos doesn't require a healer and would he instant ques. It is an easier entry point for pvp as there is less happening and will allows people to learn new specs.
I'm still pretty convinced that the slitherdrake glad mount from this xpac was made to be a shuffle mount but then blizzard pulled back on it out of concern for 3s. I'm not holding my breath on the shuffle angle but maybe someday they'll budge and allow a proper solo / duo que in the 3s ladder. In hindsight while I think shuffle was a brilliant idea I do think just having solo / duo que in 3s would be healthier for the game and would give you the same (highly unlikely) avenue of being able to solo que your way to glad.
The real answer like others i think have mentioned is to delete solo shuffle and turn 3s into flex que so you can que alone,duo or trio.
The fact that there is no glad mount or équivalent mount for Legend is turbo cringe. And blizzard even made fun of this on April 1st
no
No shuffle is way to unorganized and "easy" for it to have that reward.
I cannot put into words how badly I want this to happen !
Also, OP, post this over on the actual WoW reddit. See what the bulk of the playerbase thinks about this, which does matter contrary to what people here try to say. Arenas are on life support and practically dead by most metrics anyways. Hell, I'd wager the entire system needs an overhaul and the concept of what Gladiator is needs to go with an entirely new system like every other live service game uses needs to be put in instead. XIV overhauled their system and it's doing fine despite PvP never being really intended for that game. Now do that with a game where you had a faction system and wPvP / BGs out the gate with story / marketing connections. Hoo.
100% agree with this. You should be able to do it by yourself
People crying, pretending 3s would die. Wake up, it's dead. It's dead for long now.
Yeeeessss
I think they should unlock old pvp sets for transmog first. But yea, you kind of bring up some good points. 3s kind of is a good old boys club. Rss is the path moving forwards. Now with rated solo bgs, 3s will become even more depopulated. With all that being said, no one will respect the gladiator title as much anymore, especially if you’re just going for the mount
I couldn't agree with this more. I'm a casual player that is willing to put more time into PVP which is my favorite aspect of WOW but the giga dweebs in LFG is insufferable
yes yes yes please blizzard
Idc personally because honestly I’ll probably never play at quite that level, however I think a simple recolor of the current glad mount and a better title than soloist would work.
If they do that they need to make the rating required higher so it’s still the point whatever percent of the player base getting it so you’ll never see it anyway so what’s the point
There should most definitely be a glad mount from ss maybe a recolor but still.
Make only the title give the mount then
I couldn't agree with this more. I'm a casual player that is willing to put more time into PVP which is my favorite aspect of WOW but the giga dweebs in LFG is insufferable