early on s3 someone printed something like this and said they didt know how much it would cost to upgrad to 2/8 or 8/8.
i had to point out that its writen TOTAL COST in there.
It's just people who can't deal with a change. I saw one guy asking why there wasn't a chart for this in game. No game does that, just figure it out with what the game gives you. But WoW players are truly lost without following a guide or addon
People generally say this because they find a post on reddit or wowhead or whatever. It's a lot of information at one time, and they get confused/overwhelmed.
And then they say 'well the game is confusing/the game should be communicating this to me.'
Blizzard's system is good for giving bite-sized, easy to process information. The issue people have is that they try to absorb it all at once online.
>Blizzard's system is good for giving bite-sized, easy to process information. The issue people have is that they try to absorb it all at once online.
yeah, I started a month or so ago, and reading about the upgrade system was confusing as heck. then I actually got some gear that could be upgraded, and it was super simple
Coming from classic and being super late to df things were a bit confusing tbh.
9/10 times when I’m feeling overwhelmed by options and info if I just go play the game it usually works itself out.
People get caught up trying to perfectly min max afraid to do or spend anything if they weren’t told by a guide lol
I do agree that coming late in an expansion especially can be hard to figure things out.
You have npcs pulling you 5 different ways to do all of the content you’ve missed, and oftentimes only like 20% of it is important if you’re looking to do the current patch’s content.
Not sure what blizzard can do to fix that but I hope they think of something lol.
I get mad when things aren’t clear. But I have to remind myself that it used to be the whole point back in vanilla, you’d get a vague direction of where to go (eg south east) and off you went, enjoying the challenge of looking for it.
So there’s probably a whole community who loves that shit, and they’re probably the ones posting in wowhead.
The same person would also bitch if they added a spreadsheet that told them all the values in game because its to hard to read and that they need ~~an addon~~ YT video for it.
wow players cannot read
And the ones that can read refuse to do so if the information isn't taking 90% of their screen and WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Upgradeable gear doesn’t only come from m+. This week, you could get a hero track piece very easily by doing the timewalking raid (something that is very easily puggable and requires zero gear).
https://imgur.com/a/z84Dqlu Heres screenshots of 3 of the places in game you can look for this information.
Where does it show what would drop in a +6 and what I would get in vault for doing that BEFORE the run is complete or I had the item in bag or equipped to put in the window? What if its my 3rd run of the week. It wouldnt show in any hover menu until I completed another run and would'nt tell me what it would have been if I did lower or higher.
I don't think players who are min-maxing dungeon rewards are the same players upset over this information not being readily available via an in-game menu. Different players find different ways to play the game, and Blizzard simply can't accommodate every single imaginable play-style. Good thing the community is there to help these players.
I don't think a good justification for a lack of transparency or the need for an out of game resource is "new or more casual players may not need it".
It benefits everyone to have how the system works and what rewards come from where in game.
Before the dungeon journal, the only way to know what drops in a given dungeon or raid was to either go experience them, or look it up online. And I think that was perfectly fine - it's a video game, not an instruction manual. Why explore the world, if the game just tells you everything immediately? Imo players can experience the content, see the rewards, and perhaps the curiosity encourages them to try higher levels of content for new rewards.
>Before the dungeon journal, the only way to know what drops in a given dungeon or raid was to either go experience them, or look it up online.
And then they noticed that information should be in game and added it. You know precisely what people are asking for here.
You get a 519 with your 8 key,
You'll get a 522 if you do 10 (as is written in your screenshots)
If you do 6, you can probably guess you'll get the same reduction in ilvl as 10-8. (8-6 = 2 too !)
Not that hard tbh, but I understand that it's harder for some people to do math.
Yes I know, it's 515 in they vault for a 6 and not 516. Wow, we were wrong by 1 ilvl. Game-changing and you are absolutely right about everything then.
You completely left out how I would have seen that before doing a run, and a justifying the need to extrapolate information about a system that a small chart on an information pop up in the window could show you in seconds.
>You completely left out how I would have seen that before doing a run
Yes, sometimes, you need to do things to know what they do. Madness right ?
>the need to extrapolate information
I don't know how you survive in this world if you can't extrapolate information about things. That's literally one of the key component of your brain. Good job being still here, we're proud of you!
You are again justifying having to do something blindly before you know the reward.
Nothing else in the game works this way. An entire problem solved by simy displaying a small bit of information in game.
I'm playing a game, not trying to survive in a wasteland.
Also, great being a condescending prick. Really helps get your point across.
>having to do something blindly before you know the reward
How did you first know that killing a lvl 2 spider had a chance to drop a green item ?
>Also, great being a condescending prick
Wow, did you just extrapolate that I was a prick by the informations I've given you ??????
Work entry level IT and you'll run into people who can't even figure out how to plug a USB in.
I don't think there's really much you can do to help people. The only thing Blizzard should aim for is lowering the amount of currencies in the next expansion.
I had a woman that couldn't figure out why her computer wasn't coming on. I crawled under the desk and plugged the monitor in.
It sounds cliche but 100% true story.
The most annoying one ive ever had was spending 30 mins on the phone with a lady and her husband to get her monitors connected.
Eventually i made her facetime me. She was plugging vga from 1 into the other monitor. No cords back to the actual PC.
No matter how many times you ask or explain something, people lie over the phone.
> No matter how many times you ask or explain something, people lie over the phone.
Ask user if they rebooted, they say yes.
Check last boot: 9 years ago.
Can't make this shit up...
I had a customer that did not understand why he kept seeing the Windows recovery screen every time he turned his computer on. Of course his method of turning it off was to flip the switch on his power strip.
I once worked as the IT guy for an office, and we had to shut down the computers because we were swapping a UPS. Once the swap was done, we let the office know that they could use their computers once again, like 30 seconds later I had a person tell me that their computer wasn't working.
It turns out the person didn't know you had to power the computer back on...
I got the call last week where someone couldn't hear people on Teams. When I remoted in, her shit was muted. Multiple people in the meeting had already told her in chat to unmute her PC not just Teams, but she swore she wasn't muted.
Those are the days I hate being the only IT guy at this joint. Sure I get the neat shit like server deployment and API work, but I also get these biscuits.
Working at college IT and there are so many college students that can't read two sentences. Even when they keep looping back to it, and choosing the first option, before reading the second, and then complain about them looping.
>Work entry level IT and you'll run into people who can't even figure out how to plug a USB in.
On the flip side, if someone is getting a USB in first try they probably shouldnt be in Entry Level/
It’s not bad. I think the naming throws people off. Explorer, Adventurer, Whelpling, Wyrms, etc. it makes it feel like a lot because it’s not easily digestible.
I’m not sure the answer though but it gets easier when it’s the hero and myth tracks because they align perfectly with heroic and mythic. Ideally some way to keep the names the same would help.
I think any game should always aim to have the least amount of currencies possible. I took a break from Legion to DF S3 and honestly it felt like I came back to a Korean F2P MMO at the beginning. It was a similar kind of feeling of being overwhelmed.
Half a million currencies and sparks and crests, some of which absolutely did not have helpful tooltips. I spent more time googling "what is x used for" than playing the game. Eventually you get the hang of things but I honestly still don't like the way many of the current systems are implemented. I just learned to tolerate them.
This brought back trauma immediately.
I worked end-user IT in an electronic store and I've had people motion throwing their laptop at my head because someone "sold them a broken computer that won't work"
I ask them "did you turn it on?" (This is unfortunately not rare)
They scream "WHY DIDNT THEY TELL ME I HAD TO DO THAT, THEY SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING WHEN I BOUGHT IT"
Like bruh, do car salesmen need to tell you to turn your key in your ignition?
I will never understand why we can't just have justice and valor points again.
Valor and justice for pve
conquest and honor for pvp
and then reforging.
That is all the gearing systems you need. It works. Don't need to reinvent the wheel.
They want weekly/ seasonal caps, but they don't want people to feel like they can't upgrade their normal raid gear because they plan on running heroic in a few weeks.
“the printer doesn’t work” - “turn it on, darling”. And I don’t even work in IT. I am currently considered the nerd genius of the office because I can install windows updates, driver updates, net printers, restart computers, empty bins with 56 giga of trash and close windows and browser tabs to solve the BIG issue “my computer is so slow”.
I have noticed though (don’t get me wrong and get offended) that younger people grown up with icon OS and mobile phones have a hard time going into directories and find stuff - or name file in a clean ISO dated standard instead of “New.forecast.file.after.last.meeting.in.Paris”
Yeah, people are stupid. Just because they didn’t throw in a detailed spreadsheet (where would they even put that?) doesn’t mean the info isn’t there. It’s always been pretty clearly explained in the UI
The information missing is about the upgrade tracks from keys/vault that's not clearly mentioned anywhere. Nowhere in your screenshot does it show what gear level drops from a +5, or what track of vault reward you gain from it
The great vault tab will show you what you need to do for the next ilvl upgrade. From my point of view, they don't need to show what ilvl will drop from a +5 because you can go and do it to find out. And to be fare, imagine the UI with all m+ levels at a dungeon and their respective drops.
All the information is in the game, just not, as someone said in another comment, at a pretty spreadsheet. But people do those before the season even launches and it is easy to find (method has a good one) .
The kind of person who knows to ask that question is the kind of person who can figure it out in five seconds from googling or from asking someone else.
It's like someone wants to know 'what is the optimal rotation for my class, what is the best gear I should look to wear.'
This doesn't need to be in game, because anyone who would ask this question knows how to find that information.
Having that information in-game, if anything, would confuse certain players. The information is also frequently changing, sometimes even in the middle of a patch. It's just too much, it's too overwhelming.
Having a big spreadsheet monstrosity showing all of the gear in the game and all of the different difficulty levels is just [too much information to have in one place.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSTlL2v62kE)
Gear upgrading in game should be 'hey, you got a piece of gear! cool! You know what? You can upgrade that piece of gear. For that piece that you have, if you want to upgrade it, you need A/B/C currency, and here is where each comes from.'
That's probably the limit of how much information should be revealed at one point in time.
> The kind of person who knows to ask that question is the kind of person who can figure it out in five seconds from googling or from asking someone else.
The point is that this shit shouldn't be google'd for.
How fucking hard is it to improve UX for a game so that a player can understand what to do in their game, *in the fucking game?*
For every other game, this is a requirement. But apparently WoW can get away with being half assed with it's UX 'cause a bunch of us veterans have convinced ourselves that looking shit up on WoWhead is good game design and any complaints is laziness. It's shit, regardless of how lazy the player is.
I think your expectations over explaining this kind of system are too high.
The game walks you through upgrading items as part of the main story quests.
The video I linked is a good example of how overwhelming it can feel to receive this information all at once. Merely having this information *available* in this large a chunk is a non-starter. It's the 'quit' moment where people go 'ah no thanks, I'm good, too complicated.'
The gear upgrade system is simple. If you are asking the nitty-gritty questions like, 'what is the lowest M+ dungeon I should spam that will still reward a hero track trinket,' that person ALREADY is using outside resources.
>For every other game, this is a requirement.
Absolutely not. There is soooooo much information not given through the standard UIs of most games. Oftentimes it's intentional design, other times it's information that is irrelevant to most players so the developers aren't going to have it cluttering and confusing players.
We are talking about one very specific, very niche piece of information that is not available, while 99% of the information is.
The problem you're having isn't that the information isn't available in game. The problem you're having is that the online resources you use showed you a big spreadsheet and now you're overwhelmed and upset.
That isn't Blizzard's fault. Blizzard tried to hide the big spreadsheet from you, and to give you information that you need when you need it.
>t's the 'quit' moment where people go 'ah no thanks, I'm good, too complicated.'
We're well past that point, too. We've had several players in my guild bitch admit how complicated the game is now.
This is the kind of information that also falls along the "if you don't know, or can't easily find out, you do not play at a level where it actually matters" line.
But why should the system show this? Doesn’t this turn into meta gaming? Knowing every statistic and every little detail? Maybe it would be healthier for us to not see that.
Not everyone wants to meta game to the best gear.
Because the track is what determines the "real" item level of a given item. The item level it drops at is a temporary value. Frankly, the "anti-meta-gaming" ship sails as soon as you enter M+.
Where? Where does it show what ilvl drops per the key level? How do I see the tooltip for a +7 drop and where does it show the ilvl I'll get in vault before I earn it? If it's the third key I did?
Show me with a screenshot. Claims are being made with 0 evidence. The original post shows the upgrade window. The vault only shows what level your getting and what one upgrade level up would be.
You didn’t ask for gear drops, you asked for crests. It doesn’t show anywhere what itemlevel gear you will get and what upgrade track will result from it.
https://imgur.com/a/z84Dqlu Heres screenshots of the 3 places you listed.
Where does it show what would drop in a +6 and what I would get in vault for doing that BEFORE the run is complete or I had the item in bag or equipped to put in the window?
" I was elected to lead not to read ".
If the " This game shouldn't use addons " asmon crowd found out the game has a built in guide that explains mechanics they'd be so embarrassed.
The dungeon journal is interesting because it gives incredibly detailed information on all the mechanics EXCEPT the one thing most people need: how to react to it. For example, soak mechanics say the ability does X amount of damage spread evenly among all players hit. However, it never actually says, "Everyone in the raid should stand here." That tiny amount of required analysis and extrapolation can be a pretty big hurdle for a lot of people, which is why DBM is so successful. In general, most people don't care what the mechanics actually are; they just want to be told what to do. Understandably, Blizz doesn't want to take that position. They want players to develop their own strategies.
I like this idea. In those discussions about no addons I think dbm or a wow version of it should be implemented. What about a solo tutorial that taught players the mechanics or a little window popping up suggesting to use one of your abilities or a mdt style guide that shows what each monster does. Not necessarily how to counter it but give players an understanding of what the mobs are doing. The journal already has the bosses but of course it would be part of this.
The game gives good raid information but not m+ information. As players we learn the game by failing.
I think the other post failed in terms of saying it’s not in the game, because yes the information is there. My issue is that you have to search through a lot of different things to find it and I like to plan things out beforehand. Crafted gear especially, I want to know what I need without having to pull up 4 recipes.
I think that post saying it’s not in the game should have said it’s not presented in a non-clunky way in game, that the ease of the table graphic was not in the game. They could put the table as a page of the adventure guide so it’s all in one place, for example.
What are you having to search through to find how much upgrades cost? You literally just have to get to an upgrade NPC
And for crafted gear you just go to the crafting order NPC and find the recipes you want to make? Maybe check out the enchanted crest recipe too? That's only two things you need to look up and it's all in game.
I always use the one in storm sigil quest place/ storm gear from season 1 outside of there. The door way is way closer to the upgrade vendor so it lets you mount up quicker.
\~\~Convoluted?\~\~ More caffeine was needed, apparently. "convdniently" somehow got translated (not without irony) to "convoluted" when I read it instead of sus'ing out they meant convenient.
Yeah that’s literally what I’m talking about. I just think it would be better to have a way to see this stuff without having to go to upgrade or go to recipes. Obviously having that info in those spots is important but it would be great to have a way to see without having to go to the specific NPC’s or having said gear on hand. You know some QoL stuff.
This was basically what I was getting at in the other post
I think saying, "all the info is in-game!" is mostly true, but it isn't there in an intuitive enough for something that is so integral to gearing. Crafting has plenty of in-game explanations, but people still find it confusing because it's scattered into various quest lines and tooltips
I'm a big believer that I shouldn't have to point people to third party websites or player made charts to help understand systems
if you're a skilled enough player that you're competent enough to do those, then you're also skilled enough to look up a spreadsheet
that aside, it says it in the vault interface after you've run the previous level
what they say "this information isn't in the game!"
what they mean "this information isn't in an easy to read excel sheet format in the game"
I do kinda get it though, when I came back to the game for S3 and had to learn the system, it was definitely not intuitive. It's a lot of words, items, currencies, and etc, so I get how it can seem overwhelming to ppl at first glance.
Because there are so many different gear types (champion,aspirant etc) that it becomes overwhelming and then you add the different currency for each type and crafting on top of that.
Its easy to miss all the information when its scattered accross Valdraken therefore when you read a simple gdoc with all the info it feels like the game really dropped the ball, put all the info on the adventurer guide instead and it would be better
The upgrade npc, the crafting order and the great vault are all at a different place on the map yet they all have different and important information. The current layout is far from perfect and there's a simple solution to it
Jesus Christ, this is some next level nitpicking.
The upgrade NPC and the crafting order table are a *four seconds flight* away from one another. No, I'm not exaggerating that. I literally just checked with the in-game stopwatch. And those four seconds include a 1.5 second mount-up animation.
And you can literally open up the vault from anywhere. So if you want to check the crafting order vendor, the upgrader and the great vault all at the same time, it takes you...seven seconds.
What this user is talking about is what level of mythic keystone drops which track of gear, not "how much / what material does it cost to upgrade," like your image demonstrates. You can find out what difficulty of raid drops what gear in the adventure guide, but M+ quality drops are an enigma until you get them. Your vault can say what ilevel is coming out, but it also doesn't tell you if that's Champion or Hero or what-have-you. This is especially prevalent because several tracks of gear overlap in item level at some stages.
Your post has conflated what people are generally talking about with the idea of flightstone/crest costs, which people are not very confused by if they've upgraded gear before.
>Because there are so many different gear types (champion,aspirant etc) that it becomes overwhelming
Primary thought in their post, it's the first thing they say.
>and then you add the different currency for each type and crafting on top of that.
Secondary thought to add to the first that enhances the feeling of there being too many things to keep track of.
The focal point of that post is that there are different gear types, and because of that there have to be all these currencies, and you have to go to a specific NPC to see what things will cost but only if you already have the correct type of gear to preview what an upgrade looks like. However, none of that helps users figure out whether they're going to get a Hero drop from their vault or if a +6 keystone gives different tracks of gear from a +7.
I know it's easy to want to feel more right than other people and own them for not doing the work, but this is information that is not readily accessible within the game and hasn't been since they switched over to this new format of gearing in DF.
>You conveniently left out this part:
It's the third line of my post. I didn't leave anything out, I'm just actually addressing what that user is talking about which they led with. You seem very defensive of the game, but unless you're one of the devs who worked on the UX you stand to gain nothing by trying to combat what you're calling lies. People are only talking about their experiences.
People want information on loot drops. Upgrading is secondary because if they're doing content that drops the loot they intend to upgrade, they'll get the currencies they need over time. You're right that anyone who is confused by costs hasn't gone to the item upgrade NPC, but there are far fewer people confused by that than there are people confused by the different upgrade tracks.
If you are this fixated on the process of upgrading, you're missing the entire point of why that other thread exists and why people like the simple spreadsheet look compared to trying to figure out where loot comes from ingame, which is an exercise in becoming frustrated with the shortcomings of the adventure guide.
The missing info for me is which +keys drop champion/hero/mythic GEAR. Or am i missing it here and am still trash at reading comprehension like Mr. Smith said all those years ago…
It says it when you do a M+8 and get a piece of Hero track gear.
This is a game, not a series of spreadsheets. It transmits information through experiences not instructions.
I do think the game could be a little clearer on where the crests come from outside of that menu, like on the mythic+ dungeon listings themselves. It did take me a bit of digging to realize that tooltip there said where each comes from, and obviously if you haven't gotten a certain crest yet or don't have an item that can be pushed high to look at in this menu, then you're not necessarily going to know where they come from.
Which sure, you don't need them yet either. I just think the game could use something somewhere a little more prominent that just shows you all of the crests up front and where they come from.
Yeah people complaining about flightstone costs and what not are a bit dumb but it’s even dumber that the great vault stuff for m+ still doesn’t say what reward track it’ll be part of
I wasted all of mine buying token exchange pouches and then realized I needed them for upgrading my gear. I don’t even know what the currency I got is used for
This wouldn’t tell me what I should target if I want a specific item track though (I think crests state in their tooltip but I haven’t looked in a while)
I think it’d be nice if they add a little drop down to the dungeon journal for M+ levels and you can just select the level to see the item track and crest drop. Then it’d be not too much information at once, it’s in the game UI, and everyone is happy.
the ones in emerald dream and various other places that wanted the s3 items were either missing or were no longer interacting.
the s4 upgrade npcs, the ones that let use you awakened items, are the ones i was talking about
New people seeing a billion different currencies arnt gonna know what’s going on is my guess even though veteran players can see this and know exactly what it means that doesn’t apply for everyone.
I’m actually so fed up with the lack of brain cells in the wow community nowadays. The few decent players left are just here making fun of shitters and getting angry at blizzard customer support lmao
These people are so empty that the act of constantly bitching about a video game they play is the only thing that gives them a feeling of purpose and passion. Like dude it’s really not that serious and not a single video game will ever please everyone. Just let it go if it’s so horrible.
WoW players are the most illiterate group of people I've met.
Ran a group for Aberrus early in the week in lfg. Listed in the title and as the raid, still had people joining, being summoned and then leaving when they realised it wasn't vaults.
They could literally plaster the info in big bold letters across the window and people would still complain about the info not being obvious/ available in game.
It's not explicitly stated in game that doing a M0 dungeon will grant you 493 gear or whatever, it's not stated anywhere that doing a +7 will grant you hero gear in the vault.
Because it's hidden, and you have to know what you're looking for... and even then, a lot of it has to be manually compiled by the user.
What are the item tracks? Which ones are highest, and which ones are lowest? Where do they come from? You can find all that information in game, eventually, but there's no page that just lists it anywhere. Blizzard doesn't tell you, you have to figure it out.
Which means the *information* isn't available in game. I can compile the information, but it's not there. It's the difference between a package telling you how big it is and how much it weighs, and just getting out a tape measure and scale and measuring it yourself; in both cases you can get the information, but in only one case is it already available.
None of this is necessarily a problem, but a lot of people talk as if this information is all blatantly obvious to everyone... which is just one reason I tell people WoW isn't friendly to new players. Blizzard does very little to actually teach or explain things, and the community is as likely to scream at you as it is to do anything else.
"The answer was right here on page 345 of this 1000 page manual, can't you read!?!?" The issue is availability of the information. Without looking up a chart, how many players know what ilvl a +6 drops? If you haven't earned any crests yet, where can you find that information? They don't show up in your currency until then. Where is the information that says to 1. get an item 2. put item into upgrade vendor. 3 mouse over crest. GREAT you found the one place the information is. For every ONE of you there is, how many are there without that awareness?
Good job picking out little parts of my example and ignoring massive "AVAILABILITY OF THE INFORMATION". Try reading the whole comment again and think of what "context" means in what I said instead of trying to read it verbatim
It is certainly available in game. I would love to have the loot in dungeon journal updated to show at which key level does a certain item level drop is my only request. First few weeks of the season it takes a bit of referencing but after that its a non-issue.
This picture is unironically a good example of how bad wow is at conveying how something works.
I know it's meant to jokingly suggest the opposite but it's objectively... Not intuitive. You need to already understand the whole system to be able to look at this with hindsight and say it's perfectly clear.
Wow systems make perfect understandable sense... If you went somewhere else first to figure out how it all works.
It's pretty easy to find if you interact with the system, and one of the first things the game makes you do is a quest where they teach you how to use the upgrade feature.
Say what you want, it's a pain in the ass to get this info. You gotta go to the upgrade dude then click the piece you're curious about into the slot, then hover the specific currency... is it there? Sure, but the game doesn't tell you it's here.
Besides, these crests drop in dungeons... so you'd think that the crest info would be in the dungeon journal somewhere, right? That's where all of the other drop info is, why isn't currency info in there as well?
early on s3 someone printed something like this and said they didt know how much it would cost to upgrad to 2/8 or 8/8. i had to point out that its writen TOTAL COST in there.
Yeah, it's like their forehead has melted over their eyes, now they have 2 problems..
It's just people who can't deal with a change. I saw one guy asking why there wasn't a chart for this in game. No game does that, just figure it out with what the game gives you. But WoW players are truly lost without following a guide or addon
People generally say this because they find a post on reddit or wowhead or whatever. It's a lot of information at one time, and they get confused/overwhelmed. And then they say 'well the game is confusing/the game should be communicating this to me.' Blizzard's system is good for giving bite-sized, easy to process information. The issue people have is that they try to absorb it all at once online.
>Blizzard's system is good for giving bite-sized, easy to process information. The issue people have is that they try to absorb it all at once online. yeah, I started a month or so ago, and reading about the upgrade system was confusing as heck. then I actually got some gear that could be upgraded, and it was super simple
Coming from classic and being super late to df things were a bit confusing tbh. 9/10 times when I’m feeling overwhelmed by options and info if I just go play the game it usually works itself out. People get caught up trying to perfectly min max afraid to do or spend anything if they weren’t told by a guide lol
I do agree that coming late in an expansion especially can be hard to figure things out. You have npcs pulling you 5 different ways to do all of the content you’ve missed, and oftentimes only like 20% of it is important if you’re looking to do the current patch’s content. Not sure what blizzard can do to fix that but I hope they think of something lol.
I get mad when things aren’t clear. But I have to remind myself that it used to be the whole point back in vanilla, you’d get a vague direction of where to go (eg south east) and off you went, enjoying the challenge of looking for it. So there’s probably a whole community who loves that shit, and they’re probably the ones posting in wowhead.
Seeing this information would require playing the game.
What if I just watch asmonbald ragebait? Blizzard should cater to me!😤
The same person would also bitch if they added a spreadsheet that told them all the values in game because its to hard to read and that they need ~~an addon~~ YT video for it.
wow players cannot read And the ones that can read refuse to do so if the information isn't taking 90% of their screen and WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WoW Players 🤝 Yu-Gi-Oh Players
I summon pot of greed which allows me to draw three cards!
but what does pot of greed do?
Roll my dice! Pot of greed! Draw 3!
That is what it do Yugs
That does what it do
Don't mind me just taking my Magister of Endymion for a walk.
Reminds me of that post asking why he couldn’t loot the boss when it was showing the loot that dropped for another player
"Why don't I get the same loot as the other players? This is injustice, it's basically communism!"
See also: the new crafting system
They should put the icy veins Excel in the terms of use, then they can point out that they had the info, they just refused to read. /J
Ah, so you know about my “pet is on passive” weak aura
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Upgradeable gear doesn’t only come from m+. This week, you could get a hero track piece very easily by doing the timewalking raid (something that is very easily puggable and requires zero gear).
https://imgur.com/a/z84Dqlu Heres screenshots of 3 of the places in game you can look for this information. Where does it show what would drop in a +6 and what I would get in vault for doing that BEFORE the run is complete or I had the item in bag or equipped to put in the window? What if its my 3rd run of the week. It wouldnt show in any hover menu until I completed another run and would'nt tell me what it would have been if I did lower or higher.
Heaven forbid a player has to *interact* with the content to learn about it's rewards.
What? We went from "all the information is in game" to "go find out after you do something and wait until reset to find out part of it"?
I don't think players who are min-maxing dungeon rewards are the same players upset over this information not being readily available via an in-game menu. Different players find different ways to play the game, and Blizzard simply can't accommodate every single imaginable play-style. Good thing the community is there to help these players.
I don't think a good justification for a lack of transparency or the need for an out of game resource is "new or more casual players may not need it". It benefits everyone to have how the system works and what rewards come from where in game.
Before the dungeon journal, the only way to know what drops in a given dungeon or raid was to either go experience them, or look it up online. And I think that was perfectly fine - it's a video game, not an instruction manual. Why explore the world, if the game just tells you everything immediately? Imo players can experience the content, see the rewards, and perhaps the curiosity encourages them to try higher levels of content for new rewards.
>Before the dungeon journal, the only way to know what drops in a given dungeon or raid was to either go experience them, or look it up online. And then they noticed that information should be in game and added it. You know precisely what people are asking for here.
You get a 519 with your 8 key, You'll get a 522 if you do 10 (as is written in your screenshots) If you do 6, you can probably guess you'll get the same reduction in ilvl as 10-8. (8-6 = 2 too !) Not that hard tbh, but I understand that it's harder for some people to do math. Yes I know, it's 515 in they vault for a 6 and not 516. Wow, we were wrong by 1 ilvl. Game-changing and you are absolutely right about everything then.
You completely left out how I would have seen that before doing a run, and a justifying the need to extrapolate information about a system that a small chart on an information pop up in the window could show you in seconds.
>You completely left out how I would have seen that before doing a run Yes, sometimes, you need to do things to know what they do. Madness right ? >the need to extrapolate information I don't know how you survive in this world if you can't extrapolate information about things. That's literally one of the key component of your brain. Good job being still here, we're proud of you!
You are again justifying having to do something blindly before you know the reward. Nothing else in the game works this way. An entire problem solved by simy displaying a small bit of information in game. I'm playing a game, not trying to survive in a wasteland. Also, great being a condescending prick. Really helps get your point across.
>having to do something blindly before you know the reward How did you first know that killing a lvl 2 spider had a chance to drop a green item ? >Also, great being a condescending prick Wow, did you just extrapolate that I was a prick by the informations I've given you ??????
Not pedantic at all. "I'd like information accessible in-game and not need WoWhead" "You're too fucking stupid to survive let alone play a game"
I'm not denying it. How did you know the ilvl of the green loot you got from the spider ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
Work entry level IT and you'll run into people who can't even figure out how to plug a USB in. I don't think there's really much you can do to help people. The only thing Blizzard should aim for is lowering the amount of currencies in the next expansion.
Plugging in a USB always works on my third try.
I had a woman that couldn't figure out why her computer wasn't coming on. I crawled under the desk and plugged the monitor in. It sounds cliche but 100% true story.
Ticket: Help, my computer is powering off. I think it's over heating Resolution: Pointed space heater away from computer.
I worked at a university help desk for about six months and this is the least stupid thing I would have seen there
The most annoying one ive ever had was spending 30 mins on the phone with a lady and her husband to get her monitors connected. Eventually i made her facetime me. She was plugging vga from 1 into the other monitor. No cords back to the actual PC. No matter how many times you ask or explain something, people lie over the phone.
Rule 1: The User is always lying.
> No matter how many times you ask or explain something, people lie over the phone. Ask user if they rebooted, they say yes. Check last boot: 9 years ago. Can't make this shit up...
I had a customer that did not understand why he kept seeing the Windows recovery screen every time he turned his computer on. Of course his method of turning it off was to flip the switch on his power strip.
I once worked as the IT guy for an office, and we had to shut down the computers because we were swapping a UPS. Once the swap was done, we let the office know that they could use their computers once again, like 30 seconds later I had a person tell me that their computer wasn't working. It turns out the person didn't know you had to power the computer back on...
I got the call last week where someone couldn't hear people on Teams. When I remoted in, her shit was muted. Multiple people in the meeting had already told her in chat to unmute her PC not just Teams, but she swore she wasn't muted. Those are the days I hate being the only IT guy at this joint. Sure I get the neat shit like server deployment and API work, but I also get these biscuits.
My dad a long time ago helped a coworker put a disk in the disk drive. He was using the disk drive as a coffee holder.
Working at college IT and there are so many college students that can't read two sentences. Even when they keep looping back to it, and choosing the first option, before reading the second, and then complain about them looping.
I was the office genius because I knew how to plug in a second monitor.
>Work entry level IT and you'll run into people who can't even figure out how to plug a USB in. On the flip side, if someone is getting a USB in first try they probably shouldnt be in Entry Level/
I'm sure this is an unpopular opinion, but I think the amount of currencies is just fine.
It’s not bad. I think the naming throws people off. Explorer, Adventurer, Whelpling, Wyrms, etc. it makes it feel like a lot because it’s not easily digestible. I’m not sure the answer though but it gets easier when it’s the hero and myth tracks because they align perfectly with heroic and mythic. Ideally some way to keep the names the same would help.
I think any game should always aim to have the least amount of currencies possible. I took a break from Legion to DF S3 and honestly it felt like I came back to a Korean F2P MMO at the beginning. It was a similar kind of feeling of being overwhelmed. Half a million currencies and sparks and crests, some of which absolutely did not have helpful tooltips. I spent more time googling "what is x used for" than playing the game. Eventually you get the hang of things but I honestly still don't like the way many of the current systems are implemented. I just learned to tolerate them.
I just wish I could hide the ones I don’t care about. Paracausal flakes, I’m looking at you.
You can set them inactive and they go wayyyy down to the bottom of the list.
Holy crap thank you!!
This brought back trauma immediately. I worked end-user IT in an electronic store and I've had people motion throwing their laptop at my head because someone "sold them a broken computer that won't work" I ask them "did you turn it on?" (This is unfortunately not rare) They scream "WHY DIDNT THEY TELL ME I HAD TO DO THAT, THEY SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING WHEN I BOUGHT IT" Like bruh, do car salesmen need to tell you to turn your key in your ignition?
I will never understand why we can't just have justice and valor points again. Valor and justice for pve conquest and honor for pvp and then reforging. That is all the gearing systems you need. It works. Don't need to reinvent the wheel.
They want weekly/ seasonal caps, but they don't want people to feel like they can't upgrade their normal raid gear because they plan on running heroic in a few weeks.
“the printer doesn’t work” - “turn it on, darling”. And I don’t even work in IT. I am currently considered the nerd genius of the office because I can install windows updates, driver updates, net printers, restart computers, empty bins with 56 giga of trash and close windows and browser tabs to solve the BIG issue “my computer is so slow”. I have noticed though (don’t get me wrong and get offended) that younger people grown up with icon OS and mobile phones have a hard time going into directories and find stuff - or name file in a clean ISO dated standard instead of “New.forecast.file.after.last.meeting.in.Paris”
They failed reading and comprehension.
Because they never bothered to look
Yeah, people are stupid. Just because they didn’t throw in a detailed spreadsheet (where would they even put that?) doesn’t mean the info isn’t there. It’s always been pretty clearly explained in the UI
They could always put a spreadsheet-type breakdown in the Adventurer's guide. It would take very little time to implement.
The information missing is about the upgrade tracks from keys/vault that's not clearly mentioned anywhere. Nowhere in your screenshot does it show what gear level drops from a +5, or what track of vault reward you gain from it
The great vault tab will show you what you need to do for the next ilvl upgrade. From my point of view, they don't need to show what ilvl will drop from a +5 because you can go and do it to find out. And to be fare, imagine the UI with all m+ levels at a dungeon and their respective drops. All the information is in the game, just not, as someone said in another comment, at a pretty spreadsheet. But people do those before the season even launches and it is easy to find (method has a good one) .
They show the ilvl but it's not clear when it's a high enough ilvl to be on a new track.
The kind of person who knows to ask that question is the kind of person who can figure it out in five seconds from googling or from asking someone else. It's like someone wants to know 'what is the optimal rotation for my class, what is the best gear I should look to wear.' This doesn't need to be in game, because anyone who would ask this question knows how to find that information. Having that information in-game, if anything, would confuse certain players. The information is also frequently changing, sometimes even in the middle of a patch. It's just too much, it's too overwhelming. Having a big spreadsheet monstrosity showing all of the gear in the game and all of the different difficulty levels is just [too much information to have in one place.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSTlL2v62kE) Gear upgrading in game should be 'hey, you got a piece of gear! cool! You know what? You can upgrade that piece of gear. For that piece that you have, if you want to upgrade it, you need A/B/C currency, and here is where each comes from.' That's probably the limit of how much information should be revealed at one point in time.
> The kind of person who knows to ask that question is the kind of person who can figure it out in five seconds from googling or from asking someone else. The point is that this shit shouldn't be google'd for. How fucking hard is it to improve UX for a game so that a player can understand what to do in their game, *in the fucking game?* For every other game, this is a requirement. But apparently WoW can get away with being half assed with it's UX 'cause a bunch of us veterans have convinced ourselves that looking shit up on WoWhead is good game design and any complaints is laziness. It's shit, regardless of how lazy the player is.
Exactly! Conversely do you know where I can find how many FS and crests will take to upgrade bullion items?
I think your expectations over explaining this kind of system are too high. The game walks you through upgrading items as part of the main story quests. The video I linked is a good example of how overwhelming it can feel to receive this information all at once. Merely having this information *available* in this large a chunk is a non-starter. It's the 'quit' moment where people go 'ah no thanks, I'm good, too complicated.' The gear upgrade system is simple. If you are asking the nitty-gritty questions like, 'what is the lowest M+ dungeon I should spam that will still reward a hero track trinket,' that person ALREADY is using outside resources. >For every other game, this is a requirement. Absolutely not. There is soooooo much information not given through the standard UIs of most games. Oftentimes it's intentional design, other times it's information that is irrelevant to most players so the developers aren't going to have it cluttering and confusing players. We are talking about one very specific, very niche piece of information that is not available, while 99% of the information is. The problem you're having isn't that the information isn't available in game. The problem you're having is that the online resources you use showed you a big spreadsheet and now you're overwhelmed and upset. That isn't Blizzard's fault. Blizzard tried to hide the big spreadsheet from you, and to give you information that you need when you need it.
>t's the 'quit' moment where people go 'ah no thanks, I'm good, too complicated.' We're well past that point, too. We've had several players in my guild bitch admit how complicated the game is now.
no, I shouldn't need google or reddit. make it easy for me to know. ffs... it's not asking for much.
This is the kind of information that also falls along the "if you don't know, or can't easily find out, you do not play at a level where it actually matters" line.
But why should the system show this? Doesn’t this turn into meta gaming? Knowing every statistic and every little detail? Maybe it would be healthier for us to not see that. Not everyone wants to meta game to the best gear.
Because the track is what determines the "real" item level of a given item. The item level it drops at is a temporary value. Frankly, the "anti-meta-gaming" ship sails as soon as you enter M+.
Stop defending bad UX lol. Blizzard is notorious for this type of stuff.
How do I know what key I should try to do to get the next band? Maybe I have drakes crests but not wyrms?
It LITERALLY says in the tooltip, just god damn read the dang tooltip.
Where? Where does it show what ilvl drops per the key level? How do I see the tooltip for a +7 drop and where does it show the ilvl I'll get in vault before I earn it? If it's the third key I did? Show me with a screenshot. Claims are being made with 0 evidence. The original post shows the upgrade window. The vault only shows what level your getting and what one upgrade level up would be.
You didn’t ask for gear drops, you asked for crests. It doesn’t show anywhere what itemlevel gear you will get and what upgrade track will result from it.
https://imgur.com/a/z84Dqlu Heres screenshots of the 3 places you listed. Where does it show what would drop in a +6 and what I would get in vault for doing that BEFORE the run is complete or I had the item in bag or equipped to put in the window?
It says it in the vault.
you can see what level rewards you will get in your vault. you can see item drops from completing the dungeon.
" I was elected to lead not to read ". If the " This game shouldn't use addons " asmon crowd found out the game has a built in guide that explains mechanics they'd be so embarrassed.
The dungeon journal is interesting because it gives incredibly detailed information on all the mechanics EXCEPT the one thing most people need: how to react to it. For example, soak mechanics say the ability does X amount of damage spread evenly among all players hit. However, it never actually says, "Everyone in the raid should stand here." That tiny amount of required analysis and extrapolation can be a pretty big hurdle for a lot of people, which is why DBM is so successful. In general, most people don't care what the mechanics actually are; they just want to be told what to do. Understandably, Blizz doesn't want to take that position. They want players to develop their own strategies.
I like this idea. In those discussions about no addons I think dbm or a wow version of it should be implemented. What about a solo tutorial that taught players the mechanics or a little window popping up suggesting to use one of your abilities or a mdt style guide that shows what each monster does. Not necessarily how to counter it but give players an understanding of what the mobs are doing. The journal already has the bosses but of course it would be part of this. The game gives good raid information but not m+ information. As players we learn the game by failing.
Asking WoW players to actually read anything ever is asking too much of them.
I think the other post failed in terms of saying it’s not in the game, because yes the information is there. My issue is that you have to search through a lot of different things to find it and I like to plan things out beforehand. Crafted gear especially, I want to know what I need without having to pull up 4 recipes. I think that post saying it’s not in the game should have said it’s not presented in a non-clunky way in game, that the ease of the table graphic was not in the game. They could put the table as a page of the adventure guide so it’s all in one place, for example.
What are you having to search through to find how much upgrades cost? You literally just have to get to an upgrade NPC And for crafted gear you just go to the crafting order NPC and find the recipes you want to make? Maybe check out the enchanted crest recipe too? That's only two things you need to look up and it's all in game.
> You literally just have to get to an upgrade NPC Which was convdniently moved to outside in valdrakken near the square this patch.
Theres also the upgrade npc in the gladiator's refuge.
I always use the one in storm sigil quest place/ storm gear from season 1 outside of there. The door way is way closer to the upgrade vendor so it lets you mount up quicker.
\~\~Convoluted?\~\~ More caffeine was needed, apparently. "convdniently" somehow got translated (not without irony) to "convoluted" when I read it instead of sus'ing out they meant convenient.
They literally said convenient. Not convoluted.
Weird. Damn eyes. My bad.
Yeah that’s literally what I’m talking about. I just think it would be better to have a way to see this stuff without having to go to upgrade or go to recipes. Obviously having that info in those spots is important but it would be great to have a way to see without having to go to the specific NPC’s or having said gear on hand. You know some QoL stuff.
We definitely do not need spreadsheets added into an already complex ui
I never said there needed to be a spreadsheet.
This was basically what I was getting at in the other post I think saying, "all the info is in-game!" is mostly true, but it isn't there in an intuitive enough for something that is so integral to gearing. Crafting has plenty of in-game explanations, but people still find it confusing because it's scattered into various quest lines and tooltips I'm a big believer that I shouldn't have to point people to third party websites or player made charts to help understand systems
Being able to find information is skill expression ;)
Where does it say that you should run a +7 for Hero track loot from the dungeon or a +8 for Myth track from vault?
if you're a skilled enough player that you're competent enough to do those, then you're also skilled enough to look up a spreadsheet that aside, it says it in the vault interface after you've run the previous level
> that aside, it says it in the vault interface after you've run the previous level Doesn't that only show ilvl and not loot track?
The general public are dumb as mules?
what they say "this information isn't in the game!" what they mean "this information isn't in an easy to read excel sheet format in the game" I do kinda get it though, when I came back to the game for S3 and had to learn the system, it was definitely not intuitive. It's a lot of words, items, currencies, and etc, so I get how it can seem overwhelming to ppl at first glance.
remember how dumb the average person is, now think about how 50% of them are dumber than that
Because there are so many different gear types (champion,aspirant etc) that it becomes overwhelming and then you add the different currency for each type and crafting on top of that. Its easy to miss all the information when its scattered accross Valdraken therefore when you read a simple gdoc with all the info it feels like the game really dropped the ball, put all the info on the adventurer guide instead and it would be better
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The upgrade npc, the crafting order and the great vault are all at a different place on the map yet they all have different and important information. The current layout is far from perfect and there's a simple solution to it
You can see the great vault information in the mythic keystone tab of your UI.
the pvp tab as well
Jesus Christ, this is some next level nitpicking. The upgrade NPC and the crafting order table are a *four seconds flight* away from one another. No, I'm not exaggerating that. I literally just checked with the in-game stopwatch. And those four seconds include a 1.5 second mount-up animation. And you can literally open up the vault from anywhere. So if you want to check the crafting order vendor, the upgrader and the great vault all at the same time, it takes you...seven seconds.
Right, but in this scenario you already have the item.
What this user is talking about is what level of mythic keystone drops which track of gear, not "how much / what material does it cost to upgrade," like your image demonstrates. You can find out what difficulty of raid drops what gear in the adventure guide, but M+ quality drops are an enigma until you get them. Your vault can say what ilevel is coming out, but it also doesn't tell you if that's Champion or Hero or what-have-you. This is especially prevalent because several tracks of gear overlap in item level at some stages. Your post has conflated what people are generally talking about with the idea of flightstone/crest costs, which people are not very confused by if they've upgraded gear before.
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>Because there are so many different gear types (champion,aspirant etc) that it becomes overwhelming Primary thought in their post, it's the first thing they say. >and then you add the different currency for each type and crafting on top of that. Secondary thought to add to the first that enhances the feeling of there being too many things to keep track of. The focal point of that post is that there are different gear types, and because of that there have to be all these currencies, and you have to go to a specific NPC to see what things will cost but only if you already have the correct type of gear to preview what an upgrade looks like. However, none of that helps users figure out whether they're going to get a Hero drop from their vault or if a +6 keystone gives different tracks of gear from a +7. I know it's easy to want to feel more right than other people and own them for not doing the work, but this is information that is not readily accessible within the game and hasn't been since they switched over to this new format of gearing in DF.
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>You conveniently left out this part: It's the third line of my post. I didn't leave anything out, I'm just actually addressing what that user is talking about which they led with. You seem very defensive of the game, but unless you're one of the devs who worked on the UX you stand to gain nothing by trying to combat what you're calling lies. People are only talking about their experiences. People want information on loot drops. Upgrading is secondary because if they're doing content that drops the loot they intend to upgrade, they'll get the currencies they need over time. You're right that anyone who is confused by costs hasn't gone to the item upgrade NPC, but there are far fewer people confused by that than there are people confused by the different upgrade tracks. If you are this fixated on the process of upgrading, you're missing the entire point of why that other thread exists and why people like the simple spreadsheet look compared to trying to figure out where loot comes from ingame, which is an exercise in becoming frustrated with the shortcomings of the adventure guide.
you nailed it.
The missing info for me is which +keys drop champion/hero/mythic GEAR. Or am i missing it here and am still trash at reading comprehension like Mr. Smith said all those years ago…
Cause they would have to fucking read. They need someone else to tell them everything in a spreadsheet
Where does it say that you can get Hero track gear from Mythic 8+ and up?
It says it when you do a M+8 and get a piece of Hero track gear. This is a game, not a series of spreadsheets. It transmits information through experiences not instructions.
Because people don't read basic stuff that is right there on their screen.
I do think the game could be a little clearer on where the crests come from outside of that menu, like on the mythic+ dungeon listings themselves. It did take me a bit of digging to realize that tooltip there said where each comes from, and obviously if you haven't gotten a certain crest yet or don't have an item that can be pushed high to look at in this menu, then you're not necessarily going to know where they come from. Which sure, you don't need them yet either. I just think the game could use something somewhere a little more prominent that just shows you all of the crests up front and where they come from.
Yeah people complaining about flightstone costs and what not are a bit dumb but it’s even dumber that the great vault stuff for m+ still doesn’t say what reward track it’ll be part of
How come it doesn't say it's earned from PvP, or give PvP notices of how much you get from what? :3
Bc they are smooth brains They want the info hand fed to them via puppet show
From this screen shot, what ilvl drops from a +9 dungeon?
Sometimes too much information is bad.
I wasted all of mine buying token exchange pouches and then realized I needed them for upgrading my gear. I don’t even know what the currency I got is used for
They should put that same tooltip in the currency window, not just the upgrade vendor
This wouldn’t tell me what I should target if I want a specific item track though (I think crests state in their tooltip but I haven’t looked in a while) I think it’d be nice if they add a little drop down to the dungeon journal for M+ levels and you can just select the level to see the item track and crest drop. Then it’d be not too much information at once, it’s in the game UI, and everyone is happy.
It’s EASIER to understand in game for me. Blizzard’s write-ups are just confusing to me. Overly detailed.
the upgrade vendors only turned up yesterday (at least on my realm)
Eee? Item upgrade npcs were in game since start of DF
the ones in emerald dream and various other places that wanted the s3 items were either missing or were no longer interacting. the s4 upgrade npcs, the ones that let use you awakened items, are the ones i was talking about
I can't find the information on what's it going to cost me to upgrade items I don't have for tomorrow. I'm leaning towards ring, trinket, or staff.
no one reads tooltips, judging by the amount of times this week I've had to answer my guildmates question "where do I spend the Bullion?"
The only issue I've noticed is if I use the catalyst thing to change it to tier items it stops from being upgradeable...
People would rather decipher some dudes google doc than read tooltips
You think people who complain for a living are literate?
New people seeing a billion different currencies arnt gonna know what’s going on is my guess even though veteran players can see this and know exactly what it means that doesn’t apply for everyone.
Gen Z mobile gamers who dont pay attention unless its flashing and is voiced by a sexualized npc.
They want flashing buttons.
And DBM shouting out the tooltip location.
wow players complain about fucking everything.
I’m actually so fed up with the lack of brain cells in the wow community nowadays. The few decent players left are just here making fun of shitters and getting angry at blizzard customer support lmao
Because they can't be bothered to look for it or read.
The upgrade system is identical to season 3, yet some people act like it's something completely new.
Reading is hard for some folks. That’s is why.
If these people could read, they'd be very upset!
These people are so empty that the act of constantly bitching about a video game they play is the only thing that gives them a feeling of purpose and passion. Like dude it’s really not that serious and not a single video game will ever please everyone. Just let it go if it’s so horrible.
WoW players are the most illiterate group of people I've met. Ran a group for Aberrus early in the week in lfg. Listed in the title and as the raid, still had people joining, being summoned and then leaving when they realised it wasn't vaults. They could literally plaster the info in big bold letters across the window and people would still complain about the info not being obvious/ available in game.
Think about how stupid the average person is. Then remember that means at least half of all people are even dumber than that.
It's not explicitly stated in game that doing a M0 dungeon will grant you 493 gear or whatever, it's not stated anywhere that doing a +7 will grant you hero gear in the vault.
> It's not explicitly stated in game that doing a M0 dungeon will grant you 493 gear or whatever Thats in the dungeon journal, isnt it?
That might be, in the adventure journal.. but the m+ vault rewards for sure isn't.
>the m+ vault rewards for sure isn't. The vault rewards are listed in the vault interface (which you can see in the mythic/pvp group finders)
is this post targeted/replying at old post on this sub?
That’s a lot of words.. too bad I ain’t readin’ ‘em
Americans need their red circles.
a majority of WoW players are not "people"
Because it's hidden, and you have to know what you're looking for... and even then, a lot of it has to be manually compiled by the user. What are the item tracks? Which ones are highest, and which ones are lowest? Where do they come from? You can find all that information in game, eventually, but there's no page that just lists it anywhere. Blizzard doesn't tell you, you have to figure it out. Which means the *information* isn't available in game. I can compile the information, but it's not there. It's the difference between a package telling you how big it is and how much it weighs, and just getting out a tape measure and scale and measuring it yourself; in both cases you can get the information, but in only one case is it already available. None of this is necessarily a problem, but a lot of people talk as if this information is all blatantly obvious to everyone... which is just one reason I tell people WoW isn't friendly to new players. Blizzard does very little to actually teach or explain things, and the community is as likely to scream at you as it is to do anything else.
"The answer was right here on page 345 of this 1000 page manual, can't you read!?!?" The issue is availability of the information. Without looking up a chart, how many players know what ilvl a +6 drops? If you haven't earned any crests yet, where can you find that information? They don't show up in your currency until then. Where is the information that says to 1. get an item 2. put item into upgrade vendor. 3 mouse over crest. GREAT you found the one place the information is. For every ONE of you there is, how many are there without that awareness?
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Good job picking out little parts of my example and ignoring massive "AVAILABILITY OF THE INFORMATION". Try reading the whole comment again and think of what "context" means in what I said instead of trying to read it verbatim
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Yes
It is certainly available in game. I would love to have the loot in dungeon journal updated to show at which key level does a certain item level drop is my only request. First few weeks of the season it takes a bit of referencing but after that its a non-issue.
If those kids could read they would be very upset
Because it's not on a pretty table and given directly to them, imo.
This picture is unironically a good example of how bad wow is at conveying how something works. I know it's meant to jokingly suggest the opposite but it's objectively... Not intuitive. You need to already understand the whole system to be able to look at this with hindsight and say it's perfectly clear. Wow systems make perfect understandable sense... If you went somewhere else first to figure out how it all works.
Honestly I couldn't find that either until I looked it up on YouTube and they hovered over it. Just cause it's in game doesn't make it easy to find
It's pretty easy to find if you interact with the system, and one of the first things the game makes you do is a quest where they teach you how to use the upgrade feature.
Say what you want, it's a pain in the ass to get this info. You gotta go to the upgrade dude then click the piece you're curious about into the slot, then hover the specific currency... is it there? Sure, but the game doesn't tell you it's here. Besides, these crests drop in dungeons... so you'd think that the crest info would be in the dungeon journal somewhere, right? That's where all of the other drop info is, why isn't currency info in there as well?
[удалено]
It's not CLEARLY available, you have to mouseover the crest that you might not be currently pursuing.