That would be nice, also they would mean that people actually will do the bosses. I hate jadetemple with my dps/heal chars cause all other tanks run from water directly to the 3rd boss but don't do the bookworm... also some skip the 2nd boss in scarlet armory... skipculture is killing the fun for me...
So I was the healer, and I asked if anyone else wanted to do the "extra" boss. One warlock said he did.
So we start with the water boss, kill the ninja, and I start heading to the library, the warlock comes too.
All of a sudden, the final boss is being pinged. But I'm not turning around. The three guys go to kill the boss, and we 2 man the library.
The three amigos all die, and are doing the walk of shame back to the boss room when we get there. It was pretty satisfying.
Funny, yesterday on my lvl 12 Pala Tank I just said: no, we do "front" first... healer and all dps were like nope and go through the door to boss 3... I did library alone and joined the 3rd boss when it was on 70% still...
well got both xp...
I just one upped it.
All 4 of the others went to kill the boss, I just stepped out of the boss room before the door closed, and went to solo the 3rd boss, then after, went to loot the main boss, that I got credit for killing even though I wasn't there.
It’s really unfortunate that the optimal route is to skip bookworm until after the final boss. For some reason, if you do it that way, you get to skip the trash going to bookworm assuming people don’t just leave.
when you kill the final boss the dungeon is "over" and your other queues can pop up, such as scenarios or lfr... before you kill the last boss those are still on paused. I just want blizzard to implement the old dungeon restirction where the doors are closed until you killed both of the bosses, water and library.
lol you're whining on reddit? That's only like 2k bronze per hour, max. You wanna whine on the official forums, can easily hit 5k/hr. Also you should get the meta gem that buffs you up to 275 BPW. Not much, but it adds up. Also consider expanding the number of topics you're willing to whine about. A lot of people only whine about the things that are relevant to their goals. Ideally you wanna whine about literally everything, from movement speed to XP to the art design of the dungeons. It really opens up avenues for the bronze to start rolling in.
As soulless as the man is when he gives speeches, maybe Mike Ybarra was right. WoW players just love to bitch and moan about everything. Not saying you, but rather agreeing with your sentiment.
There’s a song by The Offspring from the 90’s that still holds true today:
Cool to Hate
It’s trendy, and as much as people hate being trendy, the mob will almost unfailingly follow at least that one trend.
The main issue with a lot of these hyperspawn farms is it can screw over people trying to do quests. If that's the one in Kun Lai I think it is then it was a real pain yesterday when I was questing there for achievements, just druids running all over tagging everything.
It's wow. If something gives even a small amount more power (or currancy) than anywhere else blizzard is literally putting a gun to the head and forcing them to do that content.
They (the players) have no agency didn't you know
Unfortunately its not a small amount. I did about 2 hours of kun lai farming with non optimal group (almost all melee) and got 24k per hour vs around 10k per hour from running heroic SoO, maybe it would be a bit more from an easier raid with less RP, but still doubt its anywhere close to what mindless farming gives. If they make it so where any meaningful content would give in 10-20% less than mindless farming, I would rather do that, but right now its 50% difference (or more) which just sucks.
I think the main question is does blizzard want people to keep playing after their dailies (and raids) or just log out? Everything even remotely decent to farm in open world just gets nerfed.
Mob farms get nerfed after 1-3 days.
Rare farming doesn't feel good because every rare dies in 2 seconds unless your lucky on spawns. I guess you can camp the Archiereus Of Flame spawn every 5 min for passable threads and lackluster bronze (btw blizzard please clean up all the blatant bots/autoclickers thanks).
Dungeon/scenario spam are whatever, they can be okif you have a group to not wait on ques while also having a geared player or low level twink to steamroll the dungeon.
This is the problem I have. After you've done your daily stuff, then what? Log off? Because if you decide to farm you might get your cloak nerfed in a few days.
If I'm waiting for friends to do a daily queue or do a raid, what do I do? Literally nothing?
To be clear, my cloak wasn't nerfed but I don't think the people who farmed frogs did anything wrong. So for me, I'm looking at any sort of content that isn't a daily clear of an instance and thinking "this could get me nerfed". It makes an event which is otherwise great fun feel very constrained because I might accidentally play the game "wrong" and get days of progress wiped out.
I have made ~11 alts for this event. I log in do the dailys and log out, two are 70 (one I'm making a raid toon and just maxing ilvl), the two 70s I made at the start. The remainder I made in the last 3 days on the alts, just doing the dailys each day, at a min nets 5k (usually more), the lvl 70 ones gets the greater caches so like 10k. I am over halfway through all the cosmetics available, and have the 50k toys, and 5 or 6 of the 40k mounts.
Your not ment to super sweat this. its been about 10 days of the event and you have 84 days remaining.
Its only constrained because people want to min max a three month event into a week. (myself included to a degree, hence the alts once the 40k quest became a thing).
What do you do when waiting for a friend, whatever is more fun, go pvp on retail, play cata, play SoD, or mthic pluses in retail. You have time.
Im just using this to level alts and buy xmog and mounts once the alt hits 70. On my 3rd its been fun and fast. I cant imagine sweat lording an alt leveling event like this.
I agree. At first I wasnt sure how soon I could have leveled up or how much bronze would drop. So yeah I was worried starting off but between the dailies, dungeon runs and killing rare mobs I hit 70 and I cleared 100k in bronze in a few days. I thought it was going to take longer. I have each class already at 70 so I'll probably load on more bronze here and there shits ans giggles just in case Blizz adds something at the end.
I only started remix to get these two mounts and the rest in xmogs. Now I think I'm at 120k bronze. It was a good experience and took me back in time with MoP.
The froggers might have nerfed cloaks, but they're still sitting at 500+ ilvl most of the time which currently is where the real power comes from. My cloak is sitting at ~3800 for most of my secondary stats right now, but even at 402 ilvl the stats on my gear almost matches it.
There will come a point in about a month where people will be able to solo everything as if it were legacy content.
"players will always take the path of least resistance, it's our job as designers to make that path exciting" - Jeff Kaplan 2005
My guess is Blizzard are making shit so fast they don't even know what will happen anymore.
To be honest, I don’t know if they don’t know what’s going on, or if they pretend not to know, but come on, that’s Blizzard, there’s no way they don’t know. I’ve always thought that in the MMORPG world, Blizzard’s designers should be the elite.
The issue isn't solely the amount of bronze that drops. The root issue is the cost to upgrade gear, which would allow individuals to breeze through content.
I'm just going to keep leveling alts until they nerf the cost of gear upgrades.
The issue is the sheer volume of things to buy. I know the gear I get will be useless in 90 days when the expac drops (speculation), but the mounts and tmog will be used for years to come.
I definitely understand that it's overwhelming. Personally, I targeted all of the mounts that were added to the game for this event. I think it was around 50k bronze to get all of them. Also, don't stress too much about the sets; you likely don't play with every armor type.
I have always believed that the problem is not frogging, but that the game design causes players to always look for more efficient ways to obtain resources. Even if frogging is punished, it will still appear in other places, but it is a pity that Blizzard pretends not to understand these things.
I think the problem is just the lack of things to do once you’ve completed all your dailies + raids for the day, people want a way to repeatedly farm bronze on their main to pass the time
Dungeons dont fill that role, questing is very finite, hunting achieves is finite, mob farming or rare farming is the only real renewable bronze source to do in remix
It’s not about optimization, just a lack of rewards from completing content, and bronze not being account wide makes alts not as important
This is unfortunately what has ruined the mode for me. I wanted to grind everything out on one character and do all the content, but the upgrade costs are simply too much. So now I’ve just made several alts who log in just to do normal vault/heart/terrace every day for compounding xp gain before logging off. Once I hit 70 with them, I will buy everything I can and then delete them because they serve no other purpose.
So now instead of engaging with every part of the game and spending hours doing an enjoyable grind, I am not engaging with the endgame at all and spending as little time as possible logged in.
Hopefully they learn for next time: have other ways to get better gear or speed up the process.
Leveling alts is already a decent farm because of the 40k bronze you get just for dinging 70, and goes pretty fast after the 4200 thread achievement. Right now I'm leveling each character shooting for two lore master achievements, right now I'm working through timeless isles, next one is going to be isle of thunder and valley of the four winds.
Ding 70, spend bronze, new alt repeat.
The issue is bronze isn't account wide so leveling alts is good for those who want cosmetic rewards only.
And yes, some people do want to upgrade their gear to do heroic and mythic.
Is there anything more expensive than the 38k mount?
That's guaranteed one of those mounts AT LEAST for every level 70 char you hit. Plus all the bronze gathered along the way.
My personal "fix" would to be tie the rate of bronze from opening boxes and boss kills to the exp modifier on the cloak. this makes the dailys more valuable, makes you want to focus on the LFR rewards and engage with the community, and scales as the event goes on.
I think there really should be more incentive to do harder content though, theres no reason to push for heroic/mythic raiding unless you want to go for the titles /faster horns on garrosh. and they require about 430/470 ilvl respectively for a raid to comfortably clear
The real problem is just how much Bronze it takes to upgrade your gear, combined with how the scaling makes you feel incredibly weak on a fresh level 70.
It means that farming a metric ton of Bronze is the only thing you can do to get your character to a level where it feels powerful.
Then you also want a lot of Bronze for the appearances.
Yes. Already did loremaster, grinded most of the reputations / achievements and the rest just gives me few dailies. Reward for doing second nm / hc dungeon is non existant. And running lfr after heroic isnt much fun and it takes longer for less.. after that there is pure nothingness
I did:
Siege Normal
Siege Heroic
HoF Heroic
ToT Heroic
Mogushan Heroic
All LFR
Daily Scenario and Dungeon (Heroic and NHC)
All Worldbosses
Isle of Thunder Dailies and Chest run.
And yes after that there was nothing left to do but that also took a majority of my day.
But i doubt most people that say there is nothing to do do all this stuff.
Specialy ToT Heroic took a few wipes and progressing and i was in a 420+ grp.
There are a lot of 400+ ilvl people that cant do heroic terrace, tot or soo. I have had to remove multiple people causing wipes cause they cant do anything cept a half ass dps rotation and never moving. Yesterday I kept a 360 through all of my heroic runs I lead but removed a 423 cause they couldn't do cone phase at all
havent had to remove anyone yet but still im suprised people say they have nothing to do when there is like 11 raids to do (LFR included) without it its "only" 7
I feel like the people saying theyre doing everything mean;
-Random Normal Scenario
-Random Heroic Scenario
-Random Normal Dungeon
-Random Heroic Dungeon
-1 LFR Wing
-World Bosses
-Troves
After that, all the major/"fast" sources of Bronze/Threads are pretty much dried up unless you're finding a group and stepping into Normal/Heroic raids.
I know for me, I'm doing the above and not bothering with Heroic raids until I'm 544 and just steamroll everything with a group full of 544s.
After I do the above- back to leveling alts/doing the above on alts. Pretty much maximizes the Bronze+Threads/hour without farming mobs
you can steamroll heroic MGV, Terrace and HoF at 410+
Just run 1/1/8 with dps having vindication. The best tank for this is brewmaster with statue but I routinely blast these daily with 0 warding.
The only mechanics worth caring about are sha with 1 tank making sure you get second phase which is easy with lust on pull, kill the submerge add for sha, and having statue to tank last boss of HoF to prevent MC.
I think the "idea" was to just do it all over. Like you do all the raids on the main and get stronger. Then you go and level on an alt. When you hit max on that, you can either do dailies on him as well or at least a selection of them and then run on a 3rd alt etc.
Which is kind of what is and even at the start what was incentivized. Like regularly farming doesn't give you much gold at all, until you put yourself in a situation where you can farm things like 50x faster through the means of hyperspawns and grouping.
iLvl upgrades should have dropped from raids instead of using bronze. That'd fix 99.9% of the issues. It can still be a currency, just use a different one. I mean literally just put it on the crest system that they alreadyhave for fucks sake.
Creating a separate currency for upgrading ilvl would indeed be a good idea, if done from the start.
As for now, I feel it is unlikely to modify such a complex system, and the design seems a bit out of control at the moment, and changes are likely to cause other bugs. And remix is a temporary mode after all, and it may not be worth spending a lot of time to modify.
It’s weird to me that people are still doing these soul crushing grinds instead of raiding or leveling alts for the bonus.
Diablo is a franchise as grindy as they come, but I think it’s much more understood that you should choose a reasonably efficient grind, but that you also want a grind with an enjoyable gameplay loop.
There are many idle games with more enjoyable gameplay than farming a hyperspawn in wow (maybe even most).
> It’s weird to me that people are still doing these soul crushing grinds instead of raiding or leveling alts for the bonus.
It rather depends on the timescales. The froggers spent a mind numbing weekend to get powerful enough, and brimming with enough bronze, that they can play however they want for the rest of the 90 days.
So who is *actually* grinding more? froggers? or the rest of us who would need to do every raid and dungeon every single day for the rest of the event to get on their level?
You definitely don't need to grind every day for the rest of the event. Farming the raids on normal (heroic once you get around 400 ilvl) will get you to max ilvl in about 2 weeks
I think this is people who work from home or something like that who is able to just mindles farm while doing something else or just botting. Because there is no way yo did all the dailies, run every raid in normal and every raid in hero, do all the dailies and just have extra time to mindles farm hyperespawns. And i dont believe that if for some reazon someone is able to finish everything, then it to stay in a place spaming a button just to kill a npc for the rest of the day...
Theres no need to do the other stuff besides your daily quests and the first 3 raids for bronze gain if you hyperfarm mobs. Its more time efficient to grind 10-15k bronze off trash mobs every hour (and gems, lots of those!). Takes a lot more work to run the last 2 raids and animus /garrosh actually requires people to know the fights properly or youll just repeat wipe. Garrosh is only for horns at that point or titles
When Blizzard designs an attractive content and expects players to spend a lot of time to get it, of course there will be players who choose not to play the game their way, which in my opinion is not the player's problem at all, maybe another part Players who really want to play slowly don't quite understand.
But in my opinion, the current Blizzard designers don’t seem to know how to design a just right game mechanism, nor do they understand basic psychology. They are immersed in their own ideas and hope that players will adapt to them. Of course, Blizzard’s art or other departments still do a great job.
I'm a little worried that they will choose a not-so-good method in the end, which is to limit the bronze that players can obtain. They must complete certain tasks online every day to obtain a certain amount of bronze, unifying the progress of all players. This design is common on mobile phones game.
Then I laugh and remember that story "Do you guys not have phones?".
End game dailies grinding etc shlog was pretty much the reason I quit wow every time.
Paying to do daily digital chores never sat well with me as a teen. Still doesn't, but the system hasn't changed in 15 years, I'm just gonna have to lump it.
Not sure if you played during the end of BFA with the void dailies. It took me like an hour everyday to get my dailies done. I "couldn't" play games with my friends till I did my chores lmao. I agree it gets to the point where you fall behind for a week or so and just don't bother for the rest of the patch/expansion.
I also don't like too many daily quests, just like the daily system of the previous MOP version, a large number of daily quests must be completed every day to gain reputation.
What I like about the mode is that when I have time to play, I have the freedom to choose how I want to play without falling too far behind.
When I play the game normally, I don't have to worry about being punished for what I did. But obviously the current Blizzard has not created such an environment for players.
The only issue is when it’s more efficient than doing the activities that you can only do once a day. The problem with frog farm was that doing that was way better than raiding, insanely faster bronze and threads acquisition.
However now, with all these latest farms, they are good but not better than doing your heroic raids once a day.
I don’t have a problem with people that have more time than me having ways to make use of their time and grind whatever they want.
At this point I just login, do all my daily activities, scenarios, dungeons, heroic raids and log off.
It takes a couple hours, but it’s extremely efficient
Nothing wrong with the game design, some people like farming for additional gains, it satisfying. This is nothing new it's always been like this, people have been farming open world for decades. Its unusual in modern wow because they have designed the game such that power only comes from instanced content and the open world is pretty much useless outside of leveling and casual play.
>I have always believed that the problem is not frogging, but that the game design causes players to always look for more efficient ways to obtain resources.
It's six of one, half dozen of the other. People frog farmed at the start of remix because bronze rates were so unbelievably low and scaling so broken that it was hard to play at max without grinding mobs a ton. On the other hand, a lot of those issues have been fixed, but a bunch of players are still looking for "efficient farms" because their only desire is progressing faster than everyone else.
Regardless of how fun Blizzard makes the game, there will always be people who want to distill it down to max efficiency grinding. And that's okay- so long as their grinding doesn't put them so far ahead of everyone else that it becomes unfun for the majority.
> And that's okay- so long as their grinding doesn't put them so far ahead of everyone else that it becomes unfun for the majority.
Which is the real problem here. People got super far ahead of everyone else with frog farms and other similar methods, and now most difficult content comes down to hoping you get enough of them to cheese everything.
Blizzard hasn't addressed that disparity in any meaningful way -they threw out a token nerf that only reduced one small aspect of froggers' power, and they increased bronze gain from "intended" sources a bit but not enough to catch up. So the playerbase is divided into haves and have nots, and some people in the latter group will do anything they can to become part of the former group.
I have played many MMOs over the years, and the playerbase will always find the most efficient way to reach their goals. Be it for rewards or for leveling, it doesn't really matter. If there is a faster method than the one intended by the devs, the players will find it and use it.
The nerf to frogs did nothing anyway, tried to do some timeless isle last night but had two 6 mil hp and one 7 mil running around one shotting everything lol
It's not game design, it's human nature to optimise the fun out of things. The only way Blizzard can "fix" this is to intentionally create the most efficient way to farm the currency and then to work on making that way the most enjoyable.
It wouldn't matter if they buffed bronze - this farming is purely down to people wanting to reach max ilvl and be more overpowered than everyone else and they will do whatever it takes. Once people start capping max ilvl these farms will slowly disappear. Its purely just the desire to complete the game in 10 days when it's a 90 day event.
> the desire to complete the game in 10 days when it's a 90 day event.
I mean, yeah. I dont want to log in and do the same dailies for 90 days straight. Especially when the last half of those 90 days are in July/August when the weather is amazing and I have shit I want to do outside. So instead I'm grinding now while the weather is crap and I have the time
All gaming is, is asking the player a question, and then the most efficient answer is the best, how do I get to the end of a Mario level? You could mash buttons and eventually get there, sure, but there's a most optimal way of reaching the end flag
I'm not even sold that this is a fault of Blizzards design, they should definitely reward higher effort content but the various open world farms are so brainless that people would do them even if they were suboptimal because you can literally tab out
This is just an issue because it's supposed to be a for fun event so I feel like they're dragging their feet on buffing bronze from "hard" content and people keep finding new open world farms to afk on, this should show them though why a perma scaling power level would never work without a vast gutting of the game
>*I have always believed that the problem is not frogging, but that the game design causes players to always look for more efficient ways to obtain resources.*
Indeed:
>[*Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game.*](https://www.designer-notes.com/game-developer-column-17-water-finds-a-crack/)
Quite literally this. I got all the shit I care about now so I'm done. But rather than play my main guy and farm bronze in a fun way, I resorted to making two alts for the 40K bronze rewards. Just bad design all the way through.
I joined a group out of curiosity yesterday and I noped out after 20 minutes, became bored out of my mind rather quickly.
Basically it’s an area with rapid spawning groups of mobs dropping minuscule amounts of bronze and an odd epic thread. It probably adds up to a nice sum since many people are doing it but it seemed slow af. I got about 3.5k bronze in 20 minutes and 30 epic threads or so, not sure if I was doing it “optimally” but joined a 5 man party and they just ran and tagged everything and looted every now and then.
That would be a good one. I wonder if doing it as a repeatable one would work like get a box every 10 you fly through. Just give it to players. No need to go back for anything.
Tery it. It's relaxing and you learn where they are. First time you will get only a few on your run then next time more then next time more.
You run past eliets and get some bonus there.
Or you can queue a dungeon while you fly.
Give it a shot, use a dragon flying mount.
Hear me out. They should incorporate a real farming game in wow where it’s like the game harvest moon and that way people can literally farm on the game.
This might be a hot take, but if it's not super broken like the frogs then Blizzard needs to just leave it alone. They never nerfed the dragonhawks(10-12k per hour) and the mantids(8k per hour but more threads and gems). We are all farming crap on the game. Farming dailies, farming quests, farming dungeons or raids. If people want to mindlessly grind a spot then let them. Not often, but I do prefer it sometimes.
It’s on the beach on the isle of thunder with all the trolls. My first attempt at a farm in remix and within 30 minutes I was bored out of my mind all I did was spam aoes and run around every few minutes to collect.
It’s an MMO.
Plenty of people are going to be farming.
Min/maxing or just repetitive tasks that net rewards is literally how MMORPGs have been played for decades!
The funniest part of remix has been people "discovering" all these farms that were done back in MOP. Most of these mainly being done when hyper spawning was introduced at the end of the expansion, but some were done before. Actually a true to MOP experience.
And here I am on my second toon having a blast just leveling and doing dungeons normally with my friends. I was only able to get to 70 on the first cause I was sick.
I also created my first paladin character ever since the games creation! I am truly enjoying it as well.
I was really looking forward to the "endgame" in this mode, but I won't spent hundreds of thousands of the currency that I'm collecting for mogs and mounts just to be useful at lvl 70.
This is my main gripe, my gear won't ever be upgraded past 346 the way it is now.
Once a character is level 70 it'll pretty much only touch world bosses, since heroic dungeons, scenarios and raids feels awful - you still pretty much hope you get either 1: A level 10-30 character with a Inifinite Power XII cape, or 2: a level 70 with both upgraded gear and pumped cape.
My experience with heroic scenarios just to get the trinket is:
- Join a group with 3x 65-70s, none of which are broken powered up
- Repeat wipe to the first boss untill someone gives up and we can requeue
- Requeue and MAYBE get a lowlevel (if the scenario allows it) or a pumper.
- Repeat the above untill you get a character that can carry the scenario.
This is the biggest problem, and also what fuels the bronze farms. people are desperately trying to to find.
In the PTR there was no scaling, so it wasn't a problem.
It feels awful to hit level 70.amd be weaker doing Heroic Dungeons and Scenarios, and Normal Raids than rolling a fresh alt.
It takes so much freaking bronze to upgrade a character it's ridiculous.
With the new 40k bronze on fresh characters, I'm just leveling fresh alts.
Between the Infinite Power XII cloak, and getting the trinkets, necks and rings.
I send the alt Prismatic gems, have fun slamming things and just get them to 25, and start alternating between clearing normal raids for the XP threads and questing, and fly all the way to 70. By the end close to 100k bronze. Send it on transmogs/mounts
> This is my main gripe, my gear won't ever be upgraded past 346 the way it is now.
if it helps, I upgraded to 360+ or so just to see how much difference it made, and it absolutely made things a ton easier.
I would argue you don't even need to go higher than 380 if you don't intend to do heroic raids or the like. That is far cheaper than the maximum of 500+ item level which needs a whopping 600k.
I looked at the upgrade cost once and never talked to that Npc again. 9000 bronze for 13 ilvls on my weapon? Yes it's a 2h but still, I need to spend that 15 times to max out my weapon. That's 135k just for weapons, and I can't even do that unless I upgrade everything else too. Getting to anything even *NEARING* powerful at level 70 takes more time and effort than I care to put it considering how easy and fast it is to get the 40k bonus bronze for leveling up, so that's how I got the rest of the transmog and mounts I wanted, with my "main" stuck at 346
Because people want to do the raid content but feel OP, like advertised.
But to do that it costs 300-500k bronze. When the only thing you keep from this mode is vanity items that also cost the same currency.
It's poorly designed to waste your time. Time wasting in a limited run game mode is awful.
Stop defending this shit.
They ruined it by turning on scaling. Your reward for getting to 70 is to be significantly weaker than before. Who the hell thought that was a good idea? Also a giant Bronze costs on gear upgrades? Ridiculous, just need the bronze costs to upgrade gear by 50% or more. And add Bronze discount for the other characters so alts can just easily level up their gear.
200k for upgrading first character, 50% discount for alts.
So 100k bronze for fully upgraded alt.
Means fresh character will earn that much just from getting to 70, easy fix.
I can't even fathom the upgrading costs when upgrading pre-70 is like 200-300. Then it suddenly jumps to 3-4k while bronze acquisition is nowhere near 10 times faster.
I think the problem is that people do want to do heroic raids, but they're insanely difficult without 450+ ilvl and about 3m health.
Its honestly crazy that you need to no-life grind for potentially weeks in a 90 day event to do the content. Not to mention that in the time it would take you to grind all that bronze for upgrades, you could buy every mount and transmog available anyway.
Gear progress simply should not have been tied to bronze, I don't know who thought that was a smart idea.
.
I want to be able to do heroic and mythic raids, all the groups have been people who farmed frogs and upgraded their gear. How am I supposed to upgrade my gear at a reasonable pace to get in these groups? I don’t seek out farms but the environment forces you to, if you want to do the highest content and be valuable in a group
I would like to play the content but a single normal raid gives me enough to upgrade maybe a single piece of gear one time, and I need to upgrade every piece like six times so I can finally get into heroics.
I want to play the content but I don't want to do the same dungeons or raids over and over and over daily, it is not that fun. Do we need to put in a workday amount of playtime a day just to get a couple small upgrades?
I dunno, I am. I got 56% of the collectibles available in remix. Am ilvl 390. Got 4k str and 30k stamina on my cloak.
Didn't frog farm or do any other farm. I've just been doing my daily dungeons, scenarios, bazaar quests and raids as well as leveling alts and doing the same on those. Only upgrading gear on my main and only doing world bosses for threads on my main.
Still need to finish some reps and some heroic raids as well as mythic SoO for the achievements I got left, but at this rate I should be able to fully upgrade my gear on main and get all collectibles (except maybe some of the weapons as those are too RNG and not part of any ensembles, as well as the bugged ensembles you can not use that share the same bug as the pvp ensemble bug that blizzard has refused to fix for years now).
Feel like people are just being over dramatic with the farm stuff. Sure I am not as powerful as a frogger but I'll get plenty powerful in enough time to do everything and unlike the mind-numbingly boring farms, I am actually having fun doing it.
Because it's poorly made. What do they expect players to do, when there's an infinite scaling system, and everyone's chars are far too weak to do the raids without nerding out like the guy in the south park episode?
If you want to raid or be useful in the harder content of mop remix, you pretty much have to farm everyday. The people in my guild doing heroic / mythic raids are already 450+ ilvl, and it feels horrible to play the mode when they just do 600k+ more dps than eveyrone else.
I enjoy the content. It is fun, but it's not fun just being carried because other players are farming every raid everyday on top of farms like this, making your contribution useless to the group.
Problem is how scaling in dungeons and raids works. My paladin can solo any World Boss with his gear because scaling in world is limited. But heroic dungeons and raids have diffrent scaling. So in hc dungeon I have problem to kill few trash. Mabe it is time to fix scaling and make character that actually are progressing?
This seems off in my experience. If you can solo world bosses, then you can solo dungeons. I've been carrying friends in random heroics on my boomie, and I chain pull to each boss with just tinker healing and starfall to clear the entire dungeon. World bosses take as long or longer than the first third of most dungeons (if I'm actually solo, which is rare).
I think giving people 250 Bronze for each complaint they put on Reddit would be a better source tbh.
Just play the game for fucks sake. Enjoy what you want to play, get the cosmetics you want, and move on. Who gives a shit that min/maxers are fucking frogs. It’s a fucking temporary event that no one will even care about in 75 days. This sub has gotten so fucking annoying since Mists launched.
People will always outsmart systems.
Retail is the same with gold farming. If they nerf a hyperspawn or a gold drop source then the farmers will find another way to do it.
This is always a game of cat and mouse and I’m sad that Blizzard wants to entertain the idea that the problem is the farming and not the system that they’ve built around. Its not worth the effort to keep plugging holes.
I really do hope the next Remix has some considerations for this and I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt here.
I’m having fun which is a success for sure, don’t get me wrong, but Blizzard sometimes has too much consideration to balance things for the echelon of players that power-game (I hate this term but I’m vapor locking for something better).
Stop bringing attention to it for the love of God... Jeez people this is why people are struggling is because people bitch an moan, join it, or don't, but stop complaining and ruining it for those that want to play that way, if you don't want to do the work, that's your own shortcomings, but bitching and moaning about people that are out there grinding is just ruining it for people that are putting in the time and the work, exploit early exploit often, basic rules of the game... Everyone should know this by now, they know the risks involved, let them take them, if blizz was going to do anything about it, they would have but they're not so bitching, making and bringing attention to it with posts like this is just being whiny babies at this point, if they're actually doing something wrong like botting, frickin report, other just buzz off, people are tired of these posts, really... Grinding is mind numbingly boring, if that's how they want to play, so be it... Mind ya business 😮💨
I don't see a point in farming like this personally. It's very easy to get about 80,000 bronze per alt by the time they reach max level, and farming 100s of 1000s of bronze to upgrade gear that will be standardised for war within in 2.5 months doesn't seem worth the effort.
I assume it's at the gate where the stone dog things spawn? It's a common farm to farm rep for I beleive the August celestials? I can't remember but this is not new if it is that
I just got the mounts i wanted. Saw people were throwing in full time job houers into it and because it suncapped grind i know i wont be able to keep up so nah ill wait for TWW.
what's even the the estimated Bronze/hr return of this?
I couldn't be arsed to farm like that but looking at how fast you level and get decent chunks of bronze on the way, I kinda wonder how much faster this braindead farming actually is
tested them all. seem not that worth compared to amount of clicking.. like 15k bronze / hr when u kinda perma tagging and looting. thats similar to when u do daily things with a char
I’ve been quietly farming here solo for a few days now. It’s been nice. Get to practice rotations playing a mage, get some nice cloak stat bumps. Nothing insane like frog farming. Just listening to some tunes and chilling out.
Logged in today to see a ton of people there. Was super frustrating. Guess I know why now…
Just give rogues the ability to pickpocket players for their threads, gems and bronze. But if they get caught they have give all their stuff to the player who caught them.
Just give rogues the ability to pickpocket players for their threads, gems and bronze. But if they get caught they have give all their stuff to the player who caught them.
Eventually blizzard will start adding temp bans to people doing stuff like this since they’ve made it clear they don’t want you doing it. Even if I think farming is a legit tactic, Blizzard has made it clear they don’t.
Assuming blizzard doesnt change the current daily rewards, you can still get 1M bronze in a few months on a single toon just doing the dailies with raids, scenarios, and dungs which takes about an hour at most so it seems pointless doing these farms.
If it means you can do a single dungeon without a level 20 locked alt with 4 random digits followed by "boost" that acts like they are God's gift to mankind, I say let them have it.
My fucking god. The more posts I see about remix, the more I’m dumbfounded at Blizzard’s attempt to make a “Fun? DEFINITELY!” mode and all players do is find farm after farm because Blizzard nerfs after nerfs. Like what? I’m so glad I haven’t put any time toward this.
I mean, Id rather mindlessly farm for 10-15 hours and be done, than logging in and doing the same 3 quests everyday on x amount of chars, or level new alts that Im gonna play anyway.
This event is "fun for 3 months".
Its just a timed thing, that needs to be done and then move on.
The main problem is add an infinity feature and think people farm infinitly is wrong.... C'mon the "froggers" will always exists, the nerf only affect us regular and casual players...
Let me get my bronze too...
There's always going to be a farm. Seriously... not everyone wants to stay in the same spot and kill things for hours, but those that do well always pull ahead. Just play the game. Don't worry about other people. PvP isn't a thing in this content. We're supposed to be able to solo all the content eventually.
So let’s get this straight:
The frogs were blamed for the nerf, but it was really blizzard resetting stats to help other people catch up to the non-stop players.
The frogs were just a cover!
i feel like if they made every heroic dungeon boss drop that 250 bronze token nobody would do this
That would be nice, also they would mean that people actually will do the bosses. I hate jadetemple with my dps/heal chars cause all other tanks run from water directly to the 3rd boss but don't do the bookworm... also some skip the 2nd boss in scarlet armory... skipculture is killing the fun for me...
So I was the healer, and I asked if anyone else wanted to do the "extra" boss. One warlock said he did. So we start with the water boss, kill the ninja, and I start heading to the library, the warlock comes too. All of a sudden, the final boss is being pinged. But I'm not turning around. The three guys go to kill the boss, and we 2 man the library. The three amigos all die, and are doing the walk of shame back to the boss room when we get there. It was pretty satisfying.
Funny, yesterday on my lvl 12 Pala Tank I just said: no, we do "front" first... healer and all dps were like nope and go through the door to boss 3... I did library alone and joined the 3rd boss when it was on 70% still... well got both xp...
I just one upped it. All 4 of the others went to kill the boss, I just stepped out of the boss room before the door closed, and went to solo the 3rd boss, then after, went to loot the main boss, that I got credit for killing even though I wasn't there.
It’s really unfortunate that the optimal route is to skip bookworm until after the final boss. For some reason, if you do it that way, you get to skip the trash going to bookworm assuming people don’t just leave.
when you kill the final boss the dungeon is "over" and your other queues can pop up, such as scenarios or lfr... before you kill the last boss those are still on paused. I just want blizzard to implement the old dungeon restirction where the doors are closed until you killed both of the bosses, water and library.
It also bricks the quest in at least jade temple which is a pretty significant amount of exp for new alts.
And then people would just pointlessly whine they're being forced to run dungeons.
as opposed to now, when everyone is whining about people farming?
It's almost like people just like to whine, maybe blizzard should consider 250 bronze per whine.
Only 250 bronze? Wtf are blizzard even thinking these days? Remix is just a scam to get us to buy WoW time.
Gratz to 250 bronze!
>Remix is just a scam to get us to buy WoW time. Just like wow classic and TWW!
And retail!!! ... Oh wait.
How dare they make game modes and rewards that facilitate their business model
lol you're whining on reddit? That's only like 2k bronze per hour, max. You wanna whine on the official forums, can easily hit 5k/hr. Also you should get the meta gem that buffs you up to 275 BPW. Not much, but it adds up. Also consider expanding the number of topics you're willing to whine about. A lot of people only whine about the things that are relevant to their goals. Ideally you wanna whine about literally everything, from movement speed to XP to the art design of the dungeons. It really opens up avenues for the bronze to start rolling in.
As soulless as the man is when he gives speeches, maybe Mike Ybarra was right. WoW players just love to bitch and moan about everything. Not saying you, but rather agreeing with your sentiment.
ONLY 250? Wow small indie company can't afford to be too generous.
There’s a song by The Offspring from the 90’s that still holds true today: Cool to Hate It’s trendy, and as much as people hate being trendy, the mob will almost unfailingly follow at least that one trend.
I’ll take 250 per wine, if you know what am sayin
The main issue with a lot of these hyperspawn farms is it can screw over people trying to do quests. If that's the one in Kun Lai I think it is then it was a real pain yesterday when I was questing there for achievements, just druids running all over tagging everything.
It's wow. If something gives even a small amount more power (or currancy) than anywhere else blizzard is literally putting a gun to the head and forcing them to do that content. They (the players) have no agency didn't you know
Unfortunately its not a small amount. I did about 2 hours of kun lai farming with non optimal group (almost all melee) and got 24k per hour vs around 10k per hour from running heroic SoO, maybe it would be a bit more from an easier raid with less RP, but still doubt its anywhere close to what mindless farming gives. If they make it so where any meaningful content would give in 10-20% less than mindless farming, I would rather do that, but right now its 50% difference (or more) which just sucks.
It’s the ciiiircllle of liiiiiiiife
The farm will then shift to the dungeon with the fastest boss kills per 10 minutes, right?
Except people found ways to exploit the lvl 20 trial account cap and heroics (park your real character in the heroic and run it with a 20 alt).
I think the main question is does blizzard want people to keep playing after their dailies (and raids) or just log out? Everything even remotely decent to farm in open world just gets nerfed. Mob farms get nerfed after 1-3 days. Rare farming doesn't feel good because every rare dies in 2 seconds unless your lucky on spawns. I guess you can camp the Archiereus Of Flame spawn every 5 min for passable threads and lackluster bronze (btw blizzard please clean up all the blatant bots/autoclickers thanks). Dungeon/scenario spam are whatever, they can be okif you have a group to not wait on ques while also having a geared player or low level twink to steamroll the dungeon.
This is the problem I have. After you've done your daily stuff, then what? Log off? Because if you decide to farm you might get your cloak nerfed in a few days. If I'm waiting for friends to do a daily queue or do a raid, what do I do? Literally nothing? To be clear, my cloak wasn't nerfed but I don't think the people who farmed frogs did anything wrong. So for me, I'm looking at any sort of content that isn't a daily clear of an instance and thinking "this could get me nerfed". It makes an event which is otherwise great fun feel very constrained because I might accidentally play the game "wrong" and get days of progress wiped out.
I have made ~11 alts for this event. I log in do the dailys and log out, two are 70 (one I'm making a raid toon and just maxing ilvl), the two 70s I made at the start. The remainder I made in the last 3 days on the alts, just doing the dailys each day, at a min nets 5k (usually more), the lvl 70 ones gets the greater caches so like 10k. I am over halfway through all the cosmetics available, and have the 50k toys, and 5 or 6 of the 40k mounts. Your not ment to super sweat this. its been about 10 days of the event and you have 84 days remaining. Its only constrained because people want to min max a three month event into a week. (myself included to a degree, hence the alts once the 40k quest became a thing). What do you do when waiting for a friend, whatever is more fun, go pvp on retail, play cata, play SoD, or mthic pluses in retail. You have time.
Im just using this to level alts and buy xmog and mounts once the alt hits 70. On my 3rd its been fun and fast. I cant imagine sweat lording an alt leveling event like this.
I agree. At first I wasnt sure how soon I could have leveled up or how much bronze would drop. So yeah I was worried starting off but between the dailies, dungeon runs and killing rare mobs I hit 70 and I cleared 100k in bronze in a few days. I thought it was going to take longer. I have each class already at 70 so I'll probably load on more bronze here and there shits ans giggles just in case Blizz adds something at the end. I only started remix to get these two mounts and the rest in xmogs. Now I think I'm at 120k bronze. It was a good experience and took me back in time with MoP.
The froggers might have nerfed cloaks, but they're still sitting at 500+ ilvl most of the time which currently is where the real power comes from. My cloak is sitting at ~3800 for most of my secondary stats right now, but even at 402 ilvl the stats on my gear almost matches it. There will come a point in about a month where people will be able to solo everything as if it were legacy content.
> blatant bots/autoclickers thanks The amount of times I see paladins that just do a consecrate at a set interval camping a rare
"players will always take the path of least resistance, it's our job as designers to make that path exciting" - Jeff Kaplan 2005 My guess is Blizzard are making shit so fast they don't even know what will happen anymore.
Good quote.
What's the source of this statement? I didn't know Kaplan worked on WoW and would like to read more of his thoughts on the project
Kaplan worked on world design for vanilla and several expansion after
To be honest, I don’t know if they don’t know what’s going on, or if they pretend not to know, but come on, that’s Blizzard, there’s no way they don’t know. I’ve always thought that in the MMORPG world, Blizzard’s designers should be the elite.
Farms will always exist. Blizz can try to fight it but the farmers will always find SOMEthing.
The issue isn't solely the amount of bronze that drops. The root issue is the cost to upgrade gear, which would allow individuals to breeze through content. I'm just going to keep leveling alts until they nerf the cost of gear upgrades.
The issue is the sheer volume of things to buy. I know the gear I get will be useless in 90 days when the expac drops (speculation), but the mounts and tmog will be used for years to come.
I definitely understand that it's overwhelming. Personally, I targeted all of the mounts that were added to the game for this event. I think it was around 50k bronze to get all of them. Also, don't stress too much about the sets; you likely don't play with every armor type.
I have always believed that the problem is not frogging, but that the game design causes players to always look for more efficient ways to obtain resources. Even if frogging is punished, it will still appear in other places, but it is a pity that Blizzard pretends not to understand these things.
I think the problem is just the lack of things to do once you’ve completed all your dailies + raids for the day, people want a way to repeatedly farm bronze on their main to pass the time Dungeons dont fill that role, questing is very finite, hunting achieves is finite, mob farming or rare farming is the only real renewable bronze source to do in remix It’s not about optimization, just a lack of rewards from completing content, and bronze not being account wide makes alts not as important
Yeah I agree all I have left todo are the achievements for heroic and mythic raiding and todo that I need Ilv so I’m forced to grind to make progress
This is unfortunately what has ruined the mode for me. I wanted to grind everything out on one character and do all the content, but the upgrade costs are simply too much. So now I’ve just made several alts who log in just to do normal vault/heart/terrace every day for compounding xp gain before logging off. Once I hit 70 with them, I will buy everything I can and then delete them because they serve no other purpose. So now instead of engaging with every part of the game and spending hours doing an enjoyable grind, I am not engaging with the endgame at all and spending as little time as possible logged in. Hopefully they learn for next time: have other ways to get better gear or speed up the process.
Stick another 100-200 bronze reward on any one time quest. Suddenly leveling more chars trough questing becomes a decent farming strat.
Leveling alts is already a decent farm because of the 40k bronze you get just for dinging 70, and goes pretty fast after the 4200 thread achievement. Right now I'm leveling each character shooting for two lore master achievements, right now I'm working through timeless isles, next one is going to be isle of thunder and valley of the four winds. Ding 70, spend bronze, new alt repeat.
The issue is bronze isn't account wide so leveling alts is good for those who want cosmetic rewards only. And yes, some people do want to upgrade their gear to do heroic and mythic.
Is there anything more expensive than the 38k mount? That's guaranteed one of those mounts AT LEAST for every level 70 char you hit. Plus all the bronze gathered along the way.
two 50k toys
My personal "fix" would to be tie the rate of bronze from opening boxes and boss kills to the exp modifier on the cloak. this makes the dailys more valuable, makes you want to focus on the LFR rewards and engage with the community, and scales as the event goes on.
That just makes raiding mandatory, not quite a good fix either. We want there to be optional paths, not "one path to rule them all"
I think there really should be more incentive to do harder content though, theres no reason to push for heroic/mythic raiding unless you want to go for the titles /faster horns on garrosh. and they require about 430/470 ilvl respectively for a raid to comfortably clear
The real problem is just how much Bronze it takes to upgrade your gear, combined with how the scaling makes you feel incredibly weak on a fresh level 70. It means that farming a metric ton of Bronze is the only thing you can do to get your character to a level where it feels powerful. Then you also want a lot of Bronze for the appearances.
Yes, I agree, too many resources are required to obtain rewards, which leads some players to frogging.
Yes. Already did loremaster, grinded most of the reputations / achievements and the rest just gives me few dailies. Reward for doing second nm / hc dungeon is non existant. And running lfr after heroic isnt much fun and it takes longer for less.. after that there is pure nothingness
So just play another game….
I did: Siege Normal Siege Heroic HoF Heroic ToT Heroic Mogushan Heroic All LFR Daily Scenario and Dungeon (Heroic and NHC) All Worldbosses Isle of Thunder Dailies and Chest run. And yes after that there was nothing left to do but that also took a majority of my day. But i doubt most people that say there is nothing to do do all this stuff. Specialy ToT Heroic took a few wipes and progressing and i was in a 420+ grp.
There are a lot of 400+ ilvl people that cant do heroic terrace, tot or soo. I have had to remove multiple people causing wipes cause they cant do anything cept a half ass dps rotation and never moving. Yesterday I kept a 360 through all of my heroic runs I lead but removed a 423 cause they couldn't do cone phase at all
havent had to remove anyone yet but still im suprised people say they have nothing to do when there is like 11 raids to do (LFR included) without it its "only" 7
I feel like the people saying theyre doing everything mean; -Random Normal Scenario -Random Heroic Scenario -Random Normal Dungeon -Random Heroic Dungeon -1 LFR Wing -World Bosses -Troves After that, all the major/"fast" sources of Bronze/Threads are pretty much dried up unless you're finding a group and stepping into Normal/Heroic raids. I know for me, I'm doing the above and not bothering with Heroic raids until I'm 544 and just steamroll everything with a group full of 544s. After I do the above- back to leveling alts/doing the above on alts. Pretty much maximizes the Bronze+Threads/hour without farming mobs
you can steamroll heroic MGV, Terrace and HoF at 410+ Just run 1/1/8 with dps having vindication. The best tank for this is brewmaster with statue but I routinely blast these daily with 0 warding. The only mechanics worth caring about are sha with 1 tank making sure you get second phase which is easy with lust on pull, kill the submerge add for sha, and having statue to tank last boss of HoF to prevent MC.
I think the "idea" was to just do it all over. Like you do all the raids on the main and get stronger. Then you go and level on an alt. When you hit max on that, you can either do dailies on him as well or at least a selection of them and then run on a 3rd alt etc. Which is kind of what is and even at the start what was incentivized. Like regularly farming doesn't give you much gold at all, until you put yourself in a situation where you can farm things like 50x faster through the means of hyperspawns and grouping.
iLvl upgrades should have dropped from raids instead of using bronze. That'd fix 99.9% of the issues. It can still be a currency, just use a different one. I mean literally just put it on the crest system that they alreadyhave for fucks sake.
Creating a separate currency for upgrading ilvl would indeed be a good idea, if done from the start. As for now, I feel it is unlikely to modify such a complex system, and the design seems a bit out of control at the moment, and changes are likely to cause other bugs. And remix is a temporary mode after all, and it may not be worth spending a lot of time to modify.
They designed this game mode like it's a Korean MMORPG yet they don't embrace it.
It’s weird to me that people are still doing these soul crushing grinds instead of raiding or leveling alts for the bonus. Diablo is a franchise as grindy as they come, but I think it’s much more understood that you should choose a reasonably efficient grind, but that you also want a grind with an enjoyable gameplay loop. There are many idle games with more enjoyable gameplay than farming a hyperspawn in wow (maybe even most).
> It’s weird to me that people are still doing these soul crushing grinds instead of raiding or leveling alts for the bonus. It rather depends on the timescales. The froggers spent a mind numbing weekend to get powerful enough, and brimming with enough bronze, that they can play however they want for the rest of the 90 days. So who is *actually* grinding more? froggers? or the rest of us who would need to do every raid and dungeon every single day for the rest of the event to get on their level?
You definitely don't need to grind every day for the rest of the event. Farming the raids on normal (heroic once you get around 400 ilvl) will get you to max ilvl in about 2 weeks
I think this is people who work from home or something like that who is able to just mindles farm while doing something else or just botting. Because there is no way yo did all the dailies, run every raid in normal and every raid in hero, do all the dailies and just have extra time to mindles farm hyperespawns. And i dont believe that if for some reazon someone is able to finish everything, then it to stay in a place spaming a button just to kill a npc for the rest of the day...
Theres no need to do the other stuff besides your daily quests and the first 3 raids for bronze gain if you hyperfarm mobs. Its more time efficient to grind 10-15k bronze off trash mobs every hour (and gems, lots of those!). Takes a lot more work to run the last 2 raids and animus /garrosh actually requires people to know the fights properly or youll just repeat wipe. Garrosh is only for horns at that point or titles
By the end they changing any mob drop bronze or threats and only instances bosses and dailies quest give that.
When Blizzard designs an attractive content and expects players to spend a lot of time to get it, of course there will be players who choose not to play the game their way, which in my opinion is not the player's problem at all, maybe another part Players who really want to play slowly don't quite understand. But in my opinion, the current Blizzard designers don’t seem to know how to design a just right game mechanism, nor do they understand basic psychology. They are immersed in their own ideas and hope that players will adapt to them. Of course, Blizzard’s art or other departments still do a great job. I'm a little worried that they will choose a not-so-good method in the end, which is to limit the bronze that players can obtain. They must complete certain tasks online every day to obtain a certain amount of bronze, unifying the progress of all players. This design is common on mobile phones game. Then I laugh and remember that story "Do you guys not have phones?".
End game dailies grinding etc shlog was pretty much the reason I quit wow every time. Paying to do daily digital chores never sat well with me as a teen. Still doesn't, but the system hasn't changed in 15 years, I'm just gonna have to lump it.
Not sure if you played during the end of BFA with the void dailies. It took me like an hour everyday to get my dailies done. I "couldn't" play games with my friends till I did my chores lmao. I agree it gets to the point where you fall behind for a week or so and just don't bother for the rest of the patch/expansion.
I also don't like too many daily quests, just like the daily system of the previous MOP version, a large number of daily quests must be completed every day to gain reputation. What I like about the mode is that when I have time to play, I have the freedom to choose how I want to play without falling too far behind. When I play the game normally, I don't have to worry about being punished for what I did. But obviously the current Blizzard has not created such an environment for players.
The only issue is when it’s more efficient than doing the activities that you can only do once a day. The problem with frog farm was that doing that was way better than raiding, insanely faster bronze and threads acquisition. However now, with all these latest farms, they are good but not better than doing your heroic raids once a day. I don’t have a problem with people that have more time than me having ways to make use of their time and grind whatever they want. At this point I just login, do all my daily activities, scenarios, dungeons, heroic raids and log off. It takes a couple hours, but it’s extremely efficient
Nothing wrong with the game design, some people like farming for additional gains, it satisfying. This is nothing new it's always been like this, people have been farming open world for decades. Its unusual in modern wow because they have designed the game such that power only comes from instanced content and the open world is pretty much useless outside of leveling and casual play.
>I have always believed that the problem is not frogging, but that the game design causes players to always look for more efficient ways to obtain resources. It's six of one, half dozen of the other. People frog farmed at the start of remix because bronze rates were so unbelievably low and scaling so broken that it was hard to play at max without grinding mobs a ton. On the other hand, a lot of those issues have been fixed, but a bunch of players are still looking for "efficient farms" because their only desire is progressing faster than everyone else. Regardless of how fun Blizzard makes the game, there will always be people who want to distill it down to max efficiency grinding. And that's okay- so long as their grinding doesn't put them so far ahead of everyone else that it becomes unfun for the majority.
> And that's okay- so long as their grinding doesn't put them so far ahead of everyone else that it becomes unfun for the majority. Which is the real problem here. People got super far ahead of everyone else with frog farms and other similar methods, and now most difficult content comes down to hoping you get enough of them to cheese everything. Blizzard hasn't addressed that disparity in any meaningful way -they threw out a token nerf that only reduced one small aspect of froggers' power, and they increased bronze gain from "intended" sources a bit but not enough to catch up. So the playerbase is divided into haves and have nots, and some people in the latter group will do anything they can to become part of the former group.
I have played many MMOs over the years, and the playerbase will always find the most efficient way to reach their goals. Be it for rewards or for leveling, it doesn't really matter. If there is a faster method than the one intended by the devs, the players will find it and use it.
The nerf to frogs did nothing anyway, tried to do some timeless isle last night but had two 6 mil hp and one 7 mil running around one shotting everything lol
It's not game design, it's human nature to optimise the fun out of things. The only way Blizzard can "fix" this is to intentionally create the most efficient way to farm the currency and then to work on making that way the most enjoyable.
It wouldn't matter if they buffed bronze - this farming is purely down to people wanting to reach max ilvl and be more overpowered than everyone else and they will do whatever it takes. Once people start capping max ilvl these farms will slowly disappear. Its purely just the desire to complete the game in 10 days when it's a 90 day event.
> the desire to complete the game in 10 days when it's a 90 day event. I mean, yeah. I dont want to log in and do the same dailies for 90 days straight. Especially when the last half of those 90 days are in July/August when the weather is amazing and I have shit I want to do outside. So instead I'm grinding now while the weather is crap and I have the time
There's always going to be a next best farm, until they decide to remove everything
All gaming is, is asking the player a question, and then the most efficient answer is the best, how do I get to the end of a Mario level? You could mash buttons and eventually get there, sure, but there's a most optimal way of reaching the end flag I'm not even sold that this is a fault of Blizzards design, they should definitely reward higher effort content but the various open world farms are so brainless that people would do them even if they were suboptimal because you can literally tab out This is just an issue because it's supposed to be a for fun event so I feel like they're dragging their feet on buffing bronze from "hard" content and people keep finding new open world farms to afk on, this should show them though why a perma scaling power level would never work without a vast gutting of the game
>*I have always believed that the problem is not frogging, but that the game design causes players to always look for more efficient ways to obtain resources.* Indeed: >[*Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game.*](https://www.designer-notes.com/game-developer-column-17-water-finds-a-crack/)
Quite literally this. I got all the shit I care about now so I'm done. But rather than play my main guy and farm bronze in a fun way, I resorted to making two alts for the 40K bronze rewards. Just bad design all the way through.
I joined a group out of curiosity yesterday and I noped out after 20 minutes, became bored out of my mind rather quickly. Basically it’s an area with rapid spawning groups of mobs dropping minuscule amounts of bronze and an odd epic thread. It probably adds up to a nice sum since many people are doing it but it seemed slow af. I got about 3.5k bronze in 20 minutes and 30 epic threads or so, not sure if I was doing it “optimally” but joined a 5 man party and they just ran and tagged everything and looted every now and then.
I'd rather fly around and pick up orbs
Pshhh don't tell the others
I want a daily to collect 20 or so
Then there wouldn’t BE any orbs.
That would be a good one. I wonder if doing it as a repeatable one would work like get a box every 10 you fly through. Just give it to players. No need to go back for anything.
I don't get this. I get 20-40 bronze per orb and an occasional thread.
Tery it. It's relaxing and you learn where they are. First time you will get only a few on your run then next time more then next time more. You run past eliets and get some bonus there. Or you can queue a dungeon while you fly. Give it a shot, use a dragon flying mount.
10k bronze an hour is a solid farm. Goats was about 7k an hour and that got it nerfed. Would expect the same here.
I was getting 24k per hour over 2 hours, or a bit more. So its a lot better than anything else available atm.
Got any coordinates? Thx
Hear me out. They should incorporate a real farming game in wow where it’s like the game harvest moon and that way people can literally farm on the game.
They removed that for remix sadly :(. Id love to water me some bronze crops.
You mean the Halfhill market farm? Snakeroot still has some value for that easy trillium.
There was the tillers thing in valley of the four winds that you could actually farm
My rogue still has their hearthstone set to my halfhill house
[удалено]
A Summit.
Luckydo
Great Luckydo show urself!
This might be a hot take, but if it's not super broken like the frogs then Blizzard needs to just leave it alone. They never nerfed the dragonhawks(10-12k per hour) and the mantids(8k per hour but more threads and gems). We are all farming crap on the game. Farming dailies, farming quests, farming dungeons or raids. If people want to mindlessly grind a spot then let them. Not often, but I do prefer it sometimes.
Seems like they're funneling people to into daily raids and dungeons. Which is becoming (or is) a mindless grind too.
The one I saw today was "troll farm" and I'm not even sure what that is
It’s on the beach on the isle of thunder with all the trolls. My first attempt at a farm in remix and within 30 minutes I was bored out of my mind all I did was spam aoes and run around every few minutes to collect.
Blizzard: *sniff sniff* Someone is having fun...quick, to the keyboards!
The Frog Farm was merely a setback.
Can't wait to watch Blizzard nerf this rather than fix bronze acquisition rates or decrease upgrade costs...
40k coins incoming
It’s an MMO. Plenty of people are going to be farming. Min/maxing or just repetitive tasks that net rewards is literally how MMORPGs have been played for decades!
The funniest part of remix has been people "discovering" all these farms that were done back in MOP. Most of these mainly being done when hyper spawning was introduced at the end of the expansion, but some were done before. Actually a true to MOP experience.
And here I am on my second toon having a blast just leveling and doing dungeons normally with my friends. I was only able to get to 70 on the first cause I was sick. I also created my first paladin character ever since the games creation! I am truly enjoying it as well.
idk im happy being fully geared just doing dailies.
I'm convinced no one actually wants to play the content in this mode
Everyone wants to play, they just disagree on how
I was really looking forward to the "endgame" in this mode, but I won't spent hundreds of thousands of the currency that I'm collecting for mogs and mounts just to be useful at lvl 70.
This is my main gripe, my gear won't ever be upgraded past 346 the way it is now. Once a character is level 70 it'll pretty much only touch world bosses, since heroic dungeons, scenarios and raids feels awful - you still pretty much hope you get either 1: A level 10-30 character with a Inifinite Power XII cape, or 2: a level 70 with both upgraded gear and pumped cape. My experience with heroic scenarios just to get the trinket is: - Join a group with 3x 65-70s, none of which are broken powered up - Repeat wipe to the first boss untill someone gives up and we can requeue - Requeue and MAYBE get a lowlevel (if the scenario allows it) or a pumper. - Repeat the above untill you get a character that can carry the scenario.
This is the biggest problem, and also what fuels the bronze farms. people are desperately trying to to find. In the PTR there was no scaling, so it wasn't a problem. It feels awful to hit level 70.amd be weaker doing Heroic Dungeons and Scenarios, and Normal Raids than rolling a fresh alt. It takes so much freaking bronze to upgrade a character it's ridiculous. With the new 40k bronze on fresh characters, I'm just leveling fresh alts. Between the Infinite Power XII cloak, and getting the trinkets, necks and rings. I send the alt Prismatic gems, have fun slamming things and just get them to 25, and start alternating between clearing normal raids for the XP threads and questing, and fly all the way to 70. By the end close to 100k bronze. Send it on transmogs/mounts
> This is my main gripe, my gear won't ever be upgraded past 346 the way it is now. if it helps, I upgraded to 360+ or so just to see how much difference it made, and it absolutely made things a ton easier. I would argue you don't even need to go higher than 380 if you don't intend to do heroic raids or the like. That is far cheaper than the maximum of 500+ item level which needs a whopping 600k.
I looked at the upgrade cost once and never talked to that Npc again. 9000 bronze for 13 ilvls on my weapon? Yes it's a 2h but still, I need to spend that 15 times to max out my weapon. That's 135k just for weapons, and I can't even do that unless I upgrade everything else too. Getting to anything even *NEARING* powerful at level 70 takes more time and effort than I care to put it considering how easy and fast it is to get the 40k bonus bronze for leveling up, so that's how I got the rest of the transmog and mounts I wanted, with my "main" stuck at 346
Because people want to do the raid content but feel OP, like advertised. But to do that it costs 300-500k bronze. When the only thing you keep from this mode is vanity items that also cost the same currency. It's poorly designed to waste your time. Time wasting in a limited run game mode is awful. Stop defending this shit.
They ruined it by turning on scaling. Your reward for getting to 70 is to be significantly weaker than before. Who the hell thought that was a good idea? Also a giant Bronze costs on gear upgrades? Ridiculous, just need the bronze costs to upgrade gear by 50% or more. And add Bronze discount for the other characters so alts can just easily level up their gear. 200k for upgrading first character, 50% discount for alts. So 100k bronze for fully upgraded alt. Means fresh character will earn that much just from getting to 70, easy fix.
I can't even fathom the upgrading costs when upgrading pre-70 is like 200-300. Then it suddenly jumps to 3-4k while bronze acquisition is nowhere near 10 times faster.
I think the problem is that people do want to do heroic raids, but they're insanely difficult without 450+ ilvl and about 3m health. Its honestly crazy that you need to no-life grind for potentially weeks in a 90 day event to do the content. Not to mention that in the time it would take you to grind all that bronze for upgrades, you could buy every mount and transmog available anyway. Gear progress simply should not have been tied to bronze, I don't know who thought that was a smart idea. .
I want to be able to do heroic and mythic raids, all the groups have been people who farmed frogs and upgraded their gear. How am I supposed to upgrade my gear at a reasonable pace to get in these groups? I don’t seek out farms but the environment forces you to, if you want to do the highest content and be valuable in a group
I would like to play the content but a single normal raid gives me enough to upgrade maybe a single piece of gear one time, and I need to upgrade every piece like six times so I can finally get into heroics.
I want to play the content but I don't want to do the same dungeons or raids over and over and over daily, it is not that fun. Do we need to put in a workday amount of playtime a day just to get a couple small upgrades?
I dunno, I am. I got 56% of the collectibles available in remix. Am ilvl 390. Got 4k str and 30k stamina on my cloak. Didn't frog farm or do any other farm. I've just been doing my daily dungeons, scenarios, bazaar quests and raids as well as leveling alts and doing the same on those. Only upgrading gear on my main and only doing world bosses for threads on my main. Still need to finish some reps and some heroic raids as well as mythic SoO for the achievements I got left, but at this rate I should be able to fully upgrade my gear on main and get all collectibles (except maybe some of the weapons as those are too RNG and not part of any ensembles, as well as the bugged ensembles you can not use that share the same bug as the pvp ensemble bug that blizzard has refused to fix for years now). Feel like people are just being over dramatic with the farm stuff. Sure I am not as powerful as a frogger but I'll get plenty powerful in enough time to do everything and unlike the mind-numbingly boring farms, I am actually having fun doing it.
Because it's poorly made. What do they expect players to do, when there's an infinite scaling system, and everyone's chars are far too weak to do the raids without nerding out like the guy in the south park episode? If you want to raid or be useful in the harder content of mop remix, you pretty much have to farm everyday. The people in my guild doing heroic / mythic raids are already 450+ ilvl, and it feels horrible to play the mode when they just do 600k+ more dps than eveyrone else. I enjoy the content. It is fun, but it's not fun just being carried because other players are farming every raid everyday on top of farms like this, making your contribution useless to the group.
Problem is how scaling in dungeons and raids works. My paladin can solo any World Boss with his gear because scaling in world is limited. But heroic dungeons and raids have diffrent scaling. So in hc dungeon I have problem to kill few trash. Mabe it is time to fix scaling and make character that actually are progressing?
This seems off in my experience. If you can solo world bosses, then you can solo dungeons. I've been carrying friends in random heroics on my boomie, and I chain pull to each boss with just tinker healing and starfall to clear the entire dungeon. World bosses take as long or longer than the first third of most dungeons (if I'm actually solo, which is rare).
Yesterday trash on dungeon hc had more hp than trash on heroic raid. No idea why and still some one on level 15 kills them faster...
I think giving people 250 Bronze for each complaint they put on Reddit would be a better source tbh. Just play the game for fucks sake. Enjoy what you want to play, get the cosmetics you want, and move on. Who gives a shit that min/maxers are fucking frogs. It’s a fucking temporary event that no one will even care about in 75 days. This sub has gotten so fucking annoying since Mists launched.
People will always outsmart systems. Retail is the same with gold farming. If they nerf a hyperspawn or a gold drop source then the farmers will find another way to do it.
This Is getting hilarious...
Why do people give 2 shits that others are farming? It doesn’t affect you.
This is always a game of cat and mouse and I’m sad that Blizzard wants to entertain the idea that the problem is the farming and not the system that they’ve built around. Its not worth the effort to keep plugging holes. I really do hope the next Remix has some considerations for this and I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt here. I’m having fun which is a success for sure, don’t get me wrong, but Blizzard sometimes has too much consideration to balance things for the echelon of players that power-game (I hate this term but I’m vapor locking for something better).
I don't understand why everyone is so pressed on how others choose to play the game. It doesn't affect you at all.
I just want the mounts and transmog so I just do the zone quests and daily dungeon/raid /scenarios and it's going good so far
Same. So far I have all the cheap mounts, all that's left is the ones that are also drops from bosses.
Stop bringing attention to it for the love of God... Jeez people this is why people are struggling is because people bitch an moan, join it, or don't, but stop complaining and ruining it for those that want to play that way, if you don't want to do the work, that's your own shortcomings, but bitching and moaning about people that are out there grinding is just ruining it for people that are putting in the time and the work, exploit early exploit often, basic rules of the game... Everyone should know this by now, they know the risks involved, let them take them, if blizz was going to do anything about it, they would have but they're not so bitching, making and bringing attention to it with posts like this is just being whiny babies at this point, if they're actually doing something wrong like botting, frickin report, other just buzz off, people are tired of these posts, really... Grinding is mind numbingly boring, if that's how they want to play, so be it... Mind ya business 😮💨
Look you can't escape the META. There's always going to be one, that's why the bacronym is Most Efficient Tactic Available.
I don't see a point in farming like this personally. It's very easy to get about 80,000 bronze per alt by the time they reach max level, and farming 100s of 1000s of bronze to upgrade gear that will be standardised for war within in 2.5 months doesn't seem worth the effort.
Cause bronze on alt doesn't boost gear on main
I would like to at least attempt mythic SoO if I can. Maybe might not get the title, but I want to at least try.
People are so miserable like why even play a MMO if your thing is to point at people farming
They should just disable hyperspawning and be done with it.
Or simply make Hyperspawns not drop loot besides quest items. They'd still be good for the quest. And useless for non-quest related activities
You should have seen the day after the frog nerf, the entire group finder was filled with "crane" groups
People know the "topic" that they are not allowed to do, but not the "action" that is the core issue.
There will always be another farm
I assume it's at the gate where the stone dog things spawn? It's a common farm to farm rep for I beleive the August celestials? I can't remember but this is not new if it is that
Those stone quillen at the gate are for golden lotus rep
Lmao this sub
I wonder, how much bronze per hour this farm is?
I just got the mounts i wanted. Saw people were throwing in full time job houers into it and because it suncapped grind i know i wont be able to keep up so nah ill wait for TWW.
what's even the the estimated Bronze/hr return of this? I couldn't be arsed to farm like that but looking at how fast you level and get decent chunks of bronze on the way, I kinda wonder how much faster this braindead farming actually is
These kinds of events wont happen again
tested them all. seem not that worth compared to amount of clicking.. like 15k bronze / hr when u kinda perma tagging and looting. thats similar to when u do daily things with a char
Ah yes farming for bronze in one spot. Peak gameplay. So fun.
Abuse Early, and Abuse Often.
At this point someone at Blizzard needs to go through and just remove threads/bronze from hyperspawnable mobs loot tables.
Been wondering when the kun lai hyperspawn would get used. Also when wolves in vale?
Noooo wowhead will see it and make a post!
There is always "a farm" in every single patch, in every single expansion. Why keep complaining about it?
This is a time limited event i don't want my only options to be level alts or daily simulator.
Players search for effective farmspots in a game mode that is made around farming. /surprised\_face
I’ve been quietly farming here solo for a few days now. It’s been nice. Get to practice rotations playing a mage, get some nice cloak stat bumps. Nothing insane like frog farming. Just listening to some tunes and chilling out. Logged in today to see a ton of people there. Was super frustrating. Guess I know why now…
Just give rogues the ability to pickpocket players for their threads, gems and bronze. But if they get caught they have give all their stuff to the player who caught them.
Just give rogues the ability to pickpocket players for their threads, gems and bronze. But if they get caught they have give all their stuff to the player who caught them.
Lmao this just reminded me of how spazzy my friends were at MOP release. Yelling "KUN-LAI!!!" All the time and mocking "PANDAS?!" Hahahah
So just one question. How long does it take to get to the 1.5 million bronce to be able to buy everything? Did anyone achieve it?
Trolls drop lesser charms by the way.
Eventually blizzard will start adding temp bans to people doing stuff like this since they’ve made it clear they don’t want you doing it. Even if I think farming is a legit tactic, Blizzard has made it clear they don’t.
Did this farm for 2 hours today and got a few epic quality items around 45k bronze and a butload of gems, seems pretty good.
Assuming blizzard doesnt change the current daily rewards, you can still get 1M bronze in a few months on a single toon just doing the dailies with raids, scenarios, and dungs which takes about an hour at most so it seems pointless doing these farms.
I wouldn't touch farms with a 10 foot pole without Blizzard confirming the state of farming.
Just make all ques and quests drop 8k bronze each and we make 60k a day and no one will farm and blizzard won’t nerf farms and players
If it means you can do a single dungeon without a level 20 locked alt with 4 random digits followed by "boost" that acts like they are God's gift to mankind, I say let them have it.
My fucking god. The more posts I see about remix, the more I’m dumbfounded at Blizzard’s attempt to make a “Fun? DEFINITELY!” mode and all players do is find farm after farm because Blizzard nerfs after nerfs. Like what? I’m so glad I haven’t put any time toward this.
I mean, Id rather mindlessly farm for 10-15 hours and be done, than logging in and doing the same 3 quests everyday on x amount of chars, or level new alts that Im gonna play anyway. This event is "fun for 3 months". Its just a timed thing, that needs to be done and then move on.
Decided to sit out on the patio furniture instead.
Hi
Swear to god if this gets killed by the time I can farm on Saturday
The main problem is add an infinity feature and think people farm infinitly is wrong.... C'mon the "froggers" will always exists, the nerf only affect us regular and casual players... Let me get my bronze too...
There's always going to be a farm. Seriously... not everyone wants to stay in the same spot and kill things for hours, but those that do well always pull ahead. Just play the game. Don't worry about other people. PvP isn't a thing in this content. We're supposed to be able to solo all the content eventually.
So let’s get this straight: The frogs were blamed for the nerf, but it was really blizzard resetting stats to help other people catch up to the non-stop players. The frogs were just a cover!
I mean it has always been this way