I tell ya the truth, I didn't see this much effort put into balancing and tuning during Season 3 on live servers.
For fun, limited time event promoted as overpowered being okay btw.
>I tell ya the truth, I didn't see this much effort put into balancing and tuning during Season 3 on live servers.
There is significantly less effort into tuning season 4, too.
What are the sizes of these teams? Does Blizzard do the whole Google thing of "Work on what you feel passionate about?" level of prioritization?
What the fuck is happening?
Yeah what's up with that? My button used to change depending on if my pet was dead or not and then suddenly it didn't work that way anymore and I thought it was just me and I'd done something wrong.
>There is significantly less effort into tuning season 4, too.
But they had people vote and told them they'd buff sets. I don't understand how people still believe blizzard with anything tbh.
I get stuff not working as intended but being over powered and having insane OP builds was sold as a feature and not a bug so it’s strange they are laser focused at keeping us in line
Tbh they actions feel like the opposite. The balancing they are doing are focused on increasing variety instead of forcing the playerbase into focusing on a single thing.
Like there's a ton of meta gems, really only one is used by the whole raiding population. Nerfing that now makes it so that you can play the way you want to play. Same with nerfing farms that are outliers, now you're able to choose the content you want without feeling you're missing out.
You're still overpowered, like upgrade one round and you'll really feel the power increase. Upgrade again and it's an even huger difference. And again for even more. Each round of upgrades increase damage and survivability by huge amounts.
They obviously have separate teams working on all of these diff game modes, I don't really see the why people even compare them. Each of them will have a different amount of dedicated devs and also have a way different level of complexity to balance.
No one is suggesting that they are pulling people to deal with one and as a result not doing the other.
It’s more that the same company has two entirely different ethos to balancing within the same patch cycle.
Like there’s no real reason to nerf ward of salvation when trial accounts are one shotting the content it’s a completely sandboxed event the bosses will take an extra second and it was more interactive then most of the gems.
It absolutely blows my mind that they see something that the players are super excited about, and seem to want to engage with, and then they want to constantly tinker with it instead of just letting it be.
Tbh I didn’t like Ward Cheese at all.
It was cool the first few days where it was being used to clear content way above what we were supposed to, but at some point it got annoying not being able to actually play my class in raids because everything got one shot by wards lol.
Fine with this nerf specifically tbh, but I definitely agree with your sentiment generally.
It does, but people will still use and require it. Cause when push comes to shove, who wants an engaging 1:30 fight when you can just all use ward and have it be a 15 second fight?
I strongly prefer the ward cheese over getting carried by a maxed toon. Most groups are typically gonna have one or the other. The ward cheese actually utilized the whole (or most of) group to work together to one shot a boss. It was truly a unique experience and we seemed to finally be getting to a point where we were really understanding how to get it consistent.
It's unreal to me the amount of hotfixes they can churn out to tune a "fun" limited time mode but several specs are in the absolute dumpster for months if not YEARS (see: Feral Druid) and get basically zero attention. Entire seasons have gone by with fewer hotfixes than this mode has.
This alone shows they CAN do it but won't. Insulting.
Depends how much they pay for the temporary contract with the vendor for delivering content. This, to me, says they paid for a significant package of support from the vendor, which allows for game development, bug fixes, etc. prioritized by the full time game leads. It's only temporary, so the cost is probably negligible in the grand scheme of things as the project/contract/event only lasts 90 days.
Honestly I'm kind of surprised they didn't nerf slay even more - most bosses just fall over as soon as they hit 10% and I don't think this is going to change that.
This is what confuses me about the slay nerf, it seems that the only content this changes is if you're soloing a boss or something.
Maybe it's really bad for lower levels now? Not sure.
I'm interested to see what the slay changes do tonight. Either bosses will just continue to fall over (because not everyone's slay was even procccing), or we'll just drop it because it got overnerfed.
I do like seeing bosses just disappear at 10 tho.
edit: We dropped it.
I've been doing dummy testing and from what I can tell, putting in another damage gem will now outperform Slay if Slay doesn't outright kill it. That also means that if you manage to damage a boss for more than 10x your hp (say 30 million damage when you have 3 million hp), other damage gems outscale Slay.
It is likely aimed at people exploiting the slay and brittle combo. You pretty much pull a shitload of trash all to the boss and then kill the trash and the massive overkill slays on the trash all fed into massive brittle bombs pretty much allowing you to oneshot bosses.
In a actual raid group it won't matter because all of them stacking but if you're soloing raids it probably won't be amazing anymore, it was critting for 20-25mil at the end of every boss and being my #2 damage source behind kingsbane.
They likely were not trying to nerf that aspect. It was the exploit where you pull a shitload of trash to the boss and exploit the slay and brittle combo.
I don't even think ward needed a nerf, it's a limited time event that gives absolutely nothing aside from cosmetics, mounts and a handful of titles.
Should just let us be overpowered and have fun.
This.
It was annoying, and most of the groups forcing ward fell apart the moment they couldn't do a mechanic after failing to ward cheese properly.
Good riddance.
Had a group of pugs we invited last night screeching at us to run it.
We haven't needed it for the entirety of heroic.
The people demanding we run it? Bottom of the meter. Typical.
You don't need it.
The flipside is that now you'll need higher ilvl to get into raids now. Compared to before where you could get in at 346 ilvl with ward.
It did need a nerf probably, it would be nice to see the mechanics. But the issue here is ward was already kinda bad at 476 ilvl, so all this does is nerf the people who don't have their gear upgraded yet and make it harder for them to get into groups to upgrade it...
Now if Blizzard were to buff the bronze dropped by raid bosses to compensate for them taking longer and being harder, that would be great.
Yeah which everyone has already by default, it’s not like you need to grind to get the meta gem. Now good luck trying to join raids with less that 400 iLVL
Ward was gameplay warping in a negative way imo. I want to be OP but ward didn't make me OP it just turned fights into things where my only contribution was casting ward on the tank.
I think it's makes it less fun since it's a meta gem. If it was a normal gem then I think probably it gets nerfed a little. But it takes all choice out of meta and it's a little lame in that front.
Slay nerf is fine. I think it felt completely excessive and kinda lame that bosses below 10% HP just *vanished*. Seeing someone clocking in a Slay hit that's like 5x their health pool just felt silly. It'll still be strong.
And yeah, Ward nerf for the best. It just wasn't very fun to play with and way too strong for how dominant it became.
(but come the fuck on, just nerf the upgrade costs already, holy shit)
I never thought in a million years that Blizzard would put in so much effort to "balance" a fun-limited time mode.. Can we get this kind of balance cadence in live?
For sure, I’m at 413ilvl on my prot warrior and I would describe this area (hours upon hours of work to upgrade gear) as balanced, hoping OP comes soon.
In all fairness, the Ward shit was pretty toxic. People were minmaxing the hell out of it similar to the frogger situation. The game should be fun for everyone, not just for those willing to follow a strict meta.
Ward was busted, but Slay imo is unnecessary.
I'm not even sure what the Slay nerf accomplishes. The way the math works out, even without a crit it's pretty much game over the second anything hits 10% health. Dungeon bosses/open world raids have less health at 10% than a tank's slay is going to do baseline anyway so it just immediately dies. Raid bosses if at least a few people are using Slay it also just takes millions of damage and immediately dies.
Frankly I'm surprised they didn't just outright remove it and cut boss health by 10% across the board. Same difference.
At least ward let the lower level iLvl people into raids, now they won't get in at all if their ilvl isn't high enough. I'm 330 avg and couldn't get into one heroic raid today, people being super picky now ward is gone.
f yeah you will. My only beef with remix is the grind needed to get heroic ready. you have to level to 70 and then do things you've had access to from level 25. there really isn't a smooth transition. either spam dungeons/normals or sink a ton of hours into some farm.
I hate how the jewellry doesn't scale. I upgraded all my equipment to above 400 but the big ivll number on my character is probably still 350 or some such.
People don't want to progress their gear because its mutually exclusive with collectibles. Ward let us few capped out guildies carry all the 346 ppl through heroic world tours.
> At least ward let the lower level iLvl people into raids,
Ward scales/scaled with ilvl. Significantly. 546 helmet with ward/life spirit does exponentially more damage/healing than your ~330 helm
I may be wrong but I’m pretty sure Ward was invalidating the existence of healers in mythic and heroic raiding. Like it’d be 3 tanks 7 dps and everyone would just run Ward and that would be good enough?
Can't speak for mythic but you 100% want healers pumping up the wards in heroic but you pretty much 1-tanked everything which might be what you're thinking of.
Healers don't matter for ward. Every single heroic raid I make is 1-0-9.
I feel like most people on this subreddit think of the 8-10m wards as being good. I one shot galakras on heroic earlier today when I triple stacked lifestorm circles. That's 100s of million.
I speedran ToT HC with a stacked group earlier also 1-0-9. Half lifestorms, half wards, on a lot of the bosses the last few wards didn't even go off because they did so much dmg. On Ra-Den we had wards upwards of 340 mil.
I don't mind busted stuff, but I can see why it got nerfed.
3 tanks? Ha
One day I ended up in a group that did the first three heroic raids with 10 dps. Was in another raid that did ToT with 2 tanks and 8 dps.
Ward was pretty stupid, in all honesty. Easily doing 90-99% of people's damage in a fight.
Watching a level 26 Priest do 9m damage on a boss with [Searling Light](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/710574218110173278/1244388719310540940/image.png?ex=6658e34e&is=665791ce&hm=a9e51ab980a0c628238872a67943e775898ae35902183d100a4c2aba25397baa&) in LFR pre-buff is um.. interesting.
I mean I was in a raid that speedran heroic ToT yesterday with 7 people and no one was really using ward, people just might have to do a couple of mechanics now on some fights which honestly isn't a bad thing.
My character is practically immortal to like 90% of mechanics because I stacked avoidance gear due to being able to loot every other stat with threads and I do an absurd amount of damage with almost fully upgraded gear without doing any farms. I'd say I feel pretty overpowered.
>with almost fully upgraded gear
So you've played *a lot* of remix. And, you've delayed mog acquisition.
And even now, having spent hundreds of thousands of bronze to upgrade your gear, you feel only "pretty op."
Idk. This just doesn't seem like what was advertised. Grinding for ilvl is just such a stupid idea for a tertiary game mode to a current season.
Agreed which is why I've constantly been advocating for gear upgrade costs to be reduced. I really think these were very off-putting and deterred people from choosing power even though power first was probably the best option because that would accelerate the rate you gained bronze for cosmetics later on while feeling OP af.
I skipped buying cosmetics and chose power and my character is basically maxed out on every slot almost with over two months left to buy cosmetics and mounts that I'm missing, which probably won't actually take me that long to finish. Another big problem is that I'd like to make an alt powerful but probably won't because I don't want do the entire upgrade grind again from scratch.
Honestly if they just made your “found ilvl” transfer to Alts so you can upgrade them at discounted rate it would be way better. Makes it feel less bad losing all the threads you have on your main and will make leveling smoother at the later levels when your gear matters a lot more - you can always have current ilvl gear.
Would basically be a buff to bronze generation without reducing play time, you know have more characters that are more powerful and able to farm raids/dailies more quickly.
What the hell is the point of this?
I don’t even run ward, taught my ToT group last night how to do dark animus without it but seriously. It’s a time limited event, it’s been almost 2 weeks already. Just why?
Force people to have to buy overpriced gear upgrades if they want to take part in max level content so they spend longer gathering bronze for mounts and cosmetics.
Ward was allowing un-upgraded players to breeze through some content and bypass blizzards massive intended bronze sink, unacceptable!
I thought this event was supposed to be marketed as "overpowered" but they have since nerfed every single farm, and made it more grindy and tedious to acquire power... massive L yet again.
My guild cleared 2 raids in like 2 hours last night with all ward and 1 guy running lifestorm. We all put ward on the off tank and guy popped his lifestorm and 1 tapped the bosses with wards. Idk why I’m explaining it now that it’s gone but gg I geuss
I love mass pulling and then turning into a hairy boi too much.
It's actually wicked powerful if you are on the receiving end of the mother of all beat downs.
Pretty much no. The few buffs have been pathetic, and they've been almost solidly nerfing everything in the mode they advertised as "overpowered and fun". What's particularly awful is they've been nerfing more rapidly and in more ways than they would dare to do on live. It's active perversity. Whoever is in charge of Remix should not be allowed within 300 yards of Retail WoW.
Just wait until the last 2 weeks when they eventually cave and decide to let people gear up and have fun.
Edit: they just said they won’t be nerfing gear costs. Imagine lmao.
Watch them just revert every nerf and give us week 1 remix again but on the last week with all the other bronze buffs. Remix could have been litty with all the farms available
Lmao fuck this. Congratulations Blizzard! You've successfully managed to advertise a fun and overpowered game mode then consistently nerf it every couple of days. We can't farm the cloak for stats, we can't farm bronze very fast to upgrade gear and God forbid buying mounts and toys, and now we can't farm heroic raids because we can't farm the cloak or bronze.
Fuck you Blizzard.
Blizzard doesn't really change. Mop Remix is like Ashran all over--they created a fun but flawed experience and will keep progressively ruining it by trying to "fix" it to be more balance.
At this point I'm just over the constant helicopter parenting that is the dev team for remix. I just want to get my stupid cosmetics and go play something actually enjoy. I never thought I would say this but I miss the plunderstorm grind and actually enjoyed it more than this because at least it was short enough to finish in a week.
Feels so bad to be a healer anyways. Nobody needs healing, and other than low level jank scaling, I don't do any meaningful damage even with boosted gear.
Funnily enough, ward changes seem to have made it really good for geared characters. I had a warlock put it on my havoc dh (556 gear, 14k agi cloak) and it did 280m dmg on a boss (there was some aoe so victory fire probably procced good). I tried it on the next boss and it did 60m for me. So in the end it seems like it just hurt lower geared players which makes even less sense.
Honestly, how can Blizzard keep messing up this badly??
The Ward cheese has been around for over a week and they decide to nerf it NOW?? They're only making raids slower and harder, for WHAT?
because their plan is to make this a slog until the week dawntrail launches which will coincidentally be when they announce all bronze drops are doubled
save this post and watch
People have been saying that since this mode launched and yes, absolutely Blizzard will do that. Somewhere between 50% of the way and 2 weeks from the end they'll buff the shit out of Bronze or otherwise trivialize it, and make it so that there was literally no reason to be playing earlier.
Hotfix 05/30/2024
- We identified all Characters who raided heroic content with boss kills using the ward cheese.
We removed all their earned bronze and threads, which were earned through this bug abuse. We are working on a hotfix to reduce their item level to an appropriate amount.
This basically happened to my main remix character my rogue. I didn’t excessively frog farm and yet my cloak got rolled back and taken down to 1/3 of what it was from grinding raids, dungeons and dailies every day. They just deemed my character too powerful to exist because I degenned the first week so I was labelled as a frog guy.
This literally could happen later today with “warders” or “ward cheesers” in the same fashion, and then nerf more innocent players in the nerf wave who still aren’t even able to solo raids anyways so it’s not like those players were game breaking to begin with.
yup same for me, farmed frogs for 2 hours total, and then did 6 days of endgame content the week after.. blizzard decided that those 6 days of me playing the game doing endgame content wasn't worth shit because i did 2 hours of frog farm and rolled it all back. lost like 60-70% of my cloaks power.
Definitely another blow to my motivation to play Remix. Consistent nerfs but nothing addressing player’s concerns about gear and bronze and such.
Overpowered? Nope. Fun? Nope.
Mop remix is the biggest blizzard social experiment to see how fast people will quit based on nerfing the entire point of the game mode. It’s like how long can we string them along by nerfing and buffing shit, one hundred percent you know there’s some chuds in a back room at blizzard headquarters crunching numbers to see how they can manipulate their lab rats (players). Kinda schizo but real shit at the same time
The more they nerf cheesy strategies to bring down bosses, the more we will see higher requirements of cloak stats, item level and the raid leader not inviting you until you "link achievement"
We were promised fun, but will it not be applied to alts, new and casual players?
Also "Bataari Yaungol farm nerfed" - How are you supposed to catch up as a new character when you keep removing the most efficent way to gain infinite threads? At least buff the thread rewards of defeating raid bosses.
Why?
Seriously, why are you doing this Blizz? Some comunicatuon would be nice.
Why did you advertise this as some crazy whacky FUN way to level, then immediately turn around and nerf shit harder than retail?
I am not trying to be facetious or anything. I genuinely don't understand the thought process here... something that was supposed to just be a FUN temporary event to go crazy until the Xpac dropped, and so far every week you guys have nerfed anything that stood out as fun.
Let's just clear things up right now. Are we supposed to be overpowered and plowing through shit laughing and having fun, or not? Because there is obviously some uhh... "miscommunication" happening.
I was getting into groups just fine while levelling and doing ward cheese. It’s definitely useful for levelling since it gets through the raid quicker, getting the xp bonus threads faster, and just blasting through levels.
It’s actually getting old how remix is getting more changes in 10 days it’s existed than s2,s3, and s4 got in all aspects of the game combined. Pvp, mythic plus, and raid got less cumulative changes than a limited time mode designed to be broken - or so we were misled into believing anyways.
I leveled 6 characters to level 70 for the 40k bronze each for all the mounts and the mogs that I really wanted. The only thing left is some mogs I don’t really care about so I’m done now, what can I say except you’re welcome (to blizzard for boosting their quarterly performance numbers for 2 weeks)
Well there goes my last legs for anything but low-effort leveling in this mode.
They're doing more to nerf player enjoyment of this in a week than balancing the SoD cluster-fun since like phase 2. Really sad to see.
Same here I actually unsubbed. I liked running raids quickly with Guildies doing ward on our alts farming transmog and mounts. I have no interest I. Upgrading gear on MoP alts but here we are, clearing a normal raid now takes 3-5x as long with fresh 70s, AND you have to do mechanics on certain bosses or you get one shot. Didn’t they announce the event as WE will be doing the one shots ? Or did they mean we are the ones getting one shot ?
This is fine. To be fair ward was kinda crazy but with all the nerfs I can see a lot of the current playerbase leaving. My drive to play my main is completely gone.
To a certain point, I understand the Ward nerfs, even if I don't agree with the decision.
I am completely baffled by the change to Slay. It's been a lot of fun to think of 10% as the boss dying. There's far too much effort being put into making what was supposed to be a wacky mode play a lot more like retail lite instead.
Why the hell did they buff searing light?
Any tank, especially brewmaster. Just run lifespirit, warmth, Righteous Frenzy, and searing light, have your raid cast a bunch of lifespirit, stand in it, nuke the boss with damage.
They gonna buff anything or just keep nerfing things in a mode that doesn't hit overpowered vibes unless you're a fresh alt following a maxed out cloak, or you capitalized on their rapid respawn areas before those got nerfed?
I make a fresh character on live with heirlooms, and I feel stronger and level just as fast. But it's far quicker to feel powerful at 70 on live than it is remix.
I'm enjoying the event, but they absolutely failed at and keep failing at the advertised experience. Nothing about this mode feels overpowered for the average player.
Wtf was the point of this patch?
If I wanted to slog through old content, I would play classic.
I leveled in pandaria when it was current content, I don't want to do it again.
I think it's only good at low levels when you're healing higher level players. Something about the scaling makes it pump out insane damage. When you hit level 70 it doesn't seem to do any damage at all.
Those nerfs Hit my normal ToT mid raid. Took us 2 hours for a normal clear. But the ward nerfs are alright. In a 10 man it still hit for atleast 50% if done right.
But you definitely felt the Slay nerf. Only did like 2-3% on Most bosses
I tell ya the truth, I didn't see this much effort put into balancing and tuning during Season 3 on live servers. For fun, limited time event promoted as overpowered being okay btw.
>I tell ya the truth, I didn't see this much effort put into balancing and tuning during Season 3 on live servers. There is significantly less effort into tuning season 4, too.
[удалено]
What are the sizes of these teams? Does Blizzard do the whole Google thing of "Work on what you feel passionate about?" level of prioritization? What the fuck is happening?
Rip survival hunter
Hunter mend/revive pet button in general as well
Yeah what's up with that? My button used to change depending on if my pet was dead or not and then suddenly it didn't work that way anymore and I thought it was just me and I'd done something wrong.
I had made a macro that did the job, but since remix dropped it's broken and no longer works. Annoying af.
There was a bug and they disabled it, now separate. They told they will fix it, but it's been too long...
Nooooooooooooo
>There is significantly less effort into tuning season 4, too. But they had people vote and told them they'd buff sets. I don't understand how people still believe blizzard with anything tbh.
I’m really just hoping this means we’re going to get another legion-after-wod but I’m pretty doubtful
I doubt it too. With the faster release schedule they want every expansion to be a WoD.
I noticed this too. They'd rather hotfix remix again and again than fix the real thing. Season 4 M+ for example is currently a hot mess.
There's tuning for s4? 🤔
I get stuff not working as intended but being over powered and having insane OP builds was sold as a feature and not a bug so it’s strange they are laser focused at keeping us in line
For as much as they object to the Fun Detected memes, they certainly seem dedicated to living up to them.
Tbh they actions feel like the opposite. The balancing they are doing are focused on increasing variety instead of forcing the playerbase into focusing on a single thing. Like there's a ton of meta gems, really only one is used by the whole raiding population. Nerfing that now makes it so that you can play the way you want to play. Same with nerfing farms that are outliers, now you're able to choose the content you want without feeling you're missing out. You're still overpowered, like upgrade one round and you'll really feel the power increase. Upgrade again and it's an even huger difference. And again for even more. Each round of upgrades increase damage and survivability by huge amounts.
"Nerfs of Pandaria: Remix"
SoD in its entirety has received less tuning than this.
They obviously have separate teams working on all of these diff game modes, I don't really see the why people even compare them. Each of them will have a different amount of dedicated devs and also have a way different level of complexity to balance.
No one is suggesting that they are pulling people to deal with one and as a result not doing the other. It’s more that the same company has two entirely different ethos to balancing within the same patch cycle. Like there’s no real reason to nerf ward of salvation when trial accounts are one shotting the content it’s a completely sandboxed event the bosses will take an extra second and it was more interactive then most of the gems.
I know, i was just pointing out how hellbent they are on ruining everything fun.
It absolutely blows my mind that they see something that the players are super excited about, and seem to want to engage with, and then they want to constantly tinker with it instead of just letting it be.
Tbh I didn’t like Ward Cheese at all. It was cool the first few days where it was being used to clear content way above what we were supposed to, but at some point it got annoying not being able to actually play my class in raids because everything got one shot by wards lol. Fine with this nerf specifically tbh, but I definitely agree with your sentiment generally.
TBF, as people upgrade gear, Ward becomes unnecessary
It does, but people will still use and require it. Cause when push comes to shove, who wants an engaging 1:30 fight when you can just all use ward and have it be a 15 second fight?
I'll admit, I laughed for about 10 minutes after watching Blackfuse explode immediately in our SoO run.
As someone who progged the fucker back in 2013, I have to say it felt so good blowing him up.
Yeah, did mythic SoO today, was excited to do the belt again after 10 years, BOOM. Done. Moving on.
Goblin products are built to bLAST!
I strongly prefer the ward cheese over getting carried by a maxed toon. Most groups are typically gonna have one or the other. The ward cheese actually utilized the whole (or most of) group to work together to one shot a boss. It was truly a unique experience and we seemed to finally be getting to a point where we were really understanding how to get it consistent.
It also was pretty fast, with one max level carrying the group it still takes a while for them to beat down the meat shield that is remix raid bosses.
It's unreal to me the amount of hotfixes they can churn out to tune a "fun" limited time mode but several specs are in the absolute dumpster for months if not YEARS (see: Feral Druid) and get basically zero attention. Entire seasons have gone by with fewer hotfixes than this mode has. This alone shows they CAN do it but won't. Insulting.
I suspect it’s because this is so limited in length. They’re able to play much faster and looser with the axe.
Why is no one mentioning that searing light got BUFFED?
Depends how much they pay for the temporary contract with the vendor for delivering content. This, to me, says they paid for a significant package of support from the vendor, which allows for game development, bug fixes, etc. prioritized by the full time game leads. It's only temporary, so the cost is probably negligible in the grand scheme of things as the project/contract/event only lasts 90 days.
I feel pretty overpowered outside of anything heroic and mythic raiding. Idk what you're talking about.
Overpowered? No. Fun? On the Ptr. Joke aside Ward nerf was needed but come on... Its an execute that only happens at 10%. Nothing was wrong with Slay.
Honestly I'm kind of surprised they didn't nerf slay even more - most bosses just fall over as soon as they hit 10% and I don't think this is going to change that.
It is very fun to see them drop from 10 to like 2
This is what confuses me about the slay nerf, it seems that the only content this changes is if you're soloing a boss or something. Maybe it's really bad for lower levels now? Not sure.
I'm interested to see what the slay changes do tonight. Either bosses will just continue to fall over (because not everyone's slay was even procccing), or we'll just drop it because it got overnerfed. I do like seeing bosses just disappear at 10 tho. edit: We dropped it.
I've been doing dummy testing and from what I can tell, putting in another damage gem will now outperform Slay if Slay doesn't outright kill it. That also means that if you manage to damage a boss for more than 10x your hp (say 30 million damage when you have 3 million hp), other damage gems outscale Slay.
Dummy testing? Where are the training dummies for mop remix? I didn't realise there were any lol.
There are dummies at the faction hubs in Vale of Eternal Blossoms
Oh thanks!
It is likely aimed at people exploiting the slay and brittle combo. You pretty much pull a shitload of trash all to the boss and then kill the trash and the massive overkill slays on the trash all fed into massive brittle bombs pretty much allowing you to oneshot bosses.
In a actual raid group it won't matter because all of them stacking but if you're soloing raids it probably won't be amazing anymore, it was critting for 20-25mil at the end of every boss and being my #2 damage source behind kingsbane.
They likely were not trying to nerf that aspect. It was the exploit where you pull a shitload of trash to the boss and exploit the slay and brittle combo.
Execute at 10% and if it doesn't kill (or the target gets rezzed like in Scarlet Monastary) it can't affect them for 30m.
I don't even think ward needed a nerf, it's a limited time event that gives absolutely nothing aside from cosmetics, mounts and a handful of titles. Should just let us be overpowered and have fun.
I can almost get behind the Ward nerf, just because I was seeing a lot of group advertisements indicating "no ward == no invite"
This. It was annoying, and most of the groups forcing ward fell apart the moment they couldn't do a mechanic after failing to ward cheese properly. Good riddance.
Had a group of pugs we invited last night screeching at us to run it. We haven't needed it for the entirety of heroic. The people demanding we run it? Bottom of the meter. Typical. You don't need it.
Nobody needs it, it did make runs super fast if you knew how to do it.
The flipside is that now you'll need higher ilvl to get into raids now. Compared to before where you could get in at 346 ilvl with ward. It did need a nerf probably, it would be nice to see the mechanics. But the issue here is ward was already kinda bad at 476 ilvl, so all this does is nerf the people who don't have their gear upgraded yet and make it harder for them to get into groups to upgrade it... Now if Blizzard were to buff the bronze dropped by raid bosses to compensate for them taking longer and being harder, that would be great.
Yeah which everyone has already by default, it’s not like you need to grind to get the meta gem. Now good luck trying to join raids with less that 400 iLVL
Ward was gameplay warping in a negative way imo. I want to be OP but ward didn't make me OP it just turned fights into things where my only contribution was casting ward on the tank.
I think it's makes it less fun since it's a meta gem. If it was a normal gem then I think probably it gets nerfed a little. But it takes all choice out of meta and it's a little lame in that front.
Ward cheese was never fun.
agreed honestly, good riddance to ward, but slay was innocent and funny.
With high ilvl gear it was doing top dmg for most specs on raid bosses. Especially in heroic/mythic raids.
Slay nerf is fine. I think it felt completely excessive and kinda lame that bosses below 10% HP just *vanished*. Seeing someone clocking in a Slay hit that's like 5x their health pool just felt silly. It'll still be strong. And yeah, Ward nerf for the best. It just wasn't very fun to play with and way too strong for how dominant it became. (but come the fuck on, just nerf the upgrade costs already, holy shit)
Ohhh so that’s why bosses were just dropping soon as they hit 10%. I assumed it was the windwalkers spamming touch of death
"Limitless power has its limitations, and Craig from development over in cubicle 14 decides what that limit is."
I never thought in a million years that Blizzard would put in so much effort to "balance" a fun-limited time mode.. Can we get this kind of balance cadence in live?
Continued Nerfs in a limited time event sold as overpowered just seems absolutely absurd to me.
I’d you get all the prizes too fast they won’t get that sweet, sweet subscription money for three months
I mean if you ignore buying the world boss/raid mounts you can already afford most things with 4-5 level 70s thanks to the 40k bronze
The main thing I'm realizing is that blizzards definition of overpowered is massively different from players definition of overpowered
For sure, I’m at 413ilvl on my prot warrior and I would describe this area (hours upon hours of work to upgrade gear) as balanced, hoping OP comes soon.
"Fun" is an abbreviation for "fundamentally incapable of taking risks with their game"
Blizzard really not liking when we have fun with an event do they?
In all fairness, the Ward shit was pretty toxic. People were minmaxing the hell out of it similar to the frogger situation. The game should be fun for everyone, not just for those willing to follow a strict meta. Ward was busted, but Slay imo is unnecessary.
I'm not even sure what the Slay nerf accomplishes. The way the math works out, even without a crit it's pretty much game over the second anything hits 10% health. Dungeon bosses/open world raids have less health at 10% than a tank's slay is going to do baseline anyway so it just immediately dies. Raid bosses if at least a few people are using Slay it also just takes millions of damage and immediately dies. Frankly I'm surprised they didn't just outright remove it and cut boss health by 10% across the board. Same difference.
At least ward let the lower level iLvl people into raids, now they won't get in at all if their ilvl isn't high enough. I'm 330 avg and couldn't get into one heroic raid today, people being super picky now ward is gone.
I wouldn't bring a 330 into heroic raids, you'll just die from every mechanic.
f yeah you will. My only beef with remix is the grind needed to get heroic ready. you have to level to 70 and then do things you've had access to from level 25. there really isn't a smooth transition. either spam dungeons/normals or sink a ton of hours into some farm.
I hate how the jewellry doesn't scale. I upgraded all my equipment to above 400 but the big ivll number on my character is probably still 350 or some such.
It wouldn't matter, if everyone's ilvl went up yours would still be the same relatively to theirs
At all 400 iLvl upgrades you should be close to 390 if you have all the rings and trinkets.
im half 416 right now and looking at 384. I think all 400 game me 380ish. so not QUITE 390, but definitely not 350
If everything is 400 you should be at an ilvl of roughly 380. It's not so bad because everyone else also has the same ilvl trinkets/rings.
The reason why you didnt get picked up is most daily players are above 400 now.
i do the three dailies + 6 world bosses every day on my main and im like 376 where tf are y'all getting so much bronze
330 is below basic 70 dungeon gear though, why would you get into a hc raid? It's clear blizzard still want some progression
People don't want to progress their gear because its mutually exclusive with collectibles. Ward let us few capped out guildies carry all the 346 ppl through heroic world tours.
I wouldn't want someone that undergeared in a heroic raid too.
> At least ward let the lower level iLvl people into raids, Ward scales/scaled with ilvl. Significantly. 546 helmet with ward/life spirit does exponentially more damage/healing than your ~330 helm
You really shouldnt be doing heroic at 330 man, think the consensus is to get to 400 iL to be able to carry your weight and not die instantly
330 is literally dog tier
I may be wrong but I’m pretty sure Ward was invalidating the existence of healers in mythic and heroic raiding. Like it’d be 3 tanks 7 dps and everyone would just run Ward and that would be good enough?
Can't speak for mythic but you 100% want healers pumping up the wards in heroic but you pretty much 1-tanked everything which might be what you're thinking of.
Healers don't matter for ward. Every single heroic raid I make is 1-0-9. I feel like most people on this subreddit think of the 8-10m wards as being good. I one shot galakras on heroic earlier today when I triple stacked lifestorm circles. That's 100s of million.
I speedran ToT HC with a stacked group earlier also 1-0-9. Half lifestorms, half wards, on a lot of the bosses the last few wards didn't even go off because they did so much dmg. On Ra-Den we had wards upwards of 340 mil. I don't mind busted stuff, but I can see why it got nerfed.
3 tanks? Ha One day I ended up in a group that did the first three heroic raids with 10 dps. Was in another raid that did ToT with 2 tanks and 8 dps. Ward was pretty stupid, in all honesty. Easily doing 90-99% of people's damage in a fight.
Did they buff Searing Light? I've been using that with the life gem and it's pretty OP
Level 25 holy priests just got their much needed buff.
Haha I had the whole raid freaking out when my holy priest was dropping every boss in MSV in 3 seconds
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Yes, it's in there
Yes, it's in the article you're commenting on.
Shhhhhhhhh. I’m making a healer alt tonight.
Watching a level 26 Priest do 9m damage on a boss with [Searling Light](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/710574218110173278/1244388719310540940/image.png?ex=6658e34e&is=665791ce&hm=a9e51ab980a0c628238872a67943e775898ae35902183d100a4c2aba25397baa&) in LFR pre-buff is um.. interesting.
Life gem?
For a mode that's supposed to be fun and make us feel overpowered, they sure are spending a lot of time hotfixing us to become weaker.
I mean I was in a raid that speedran heroic ToT yesterday with 7 people and no one was really using ward, people just might have to do a couple of mechanics now on some fights which honestly isn't a bad thing. My character is practically immortal to like 90% of mechanics because I stacked avoidance gear due to being able to loot every other stat with threads and I do an absurd amount of damage with almost fully upgraded gear without doing any farms. I'd say I feel pretty overpowered.
>with almost fully upgraded gear So you've played *a lot* of remix. And, you've delayed mog acquisition. And even now, having spent hundreds of thousands of bronze to upgrade your gear, you feel only "pretty op." Idk. This just doesn't seem like what was advertised. Grinding for ilvl is just such a stupid idea for a tertiary game mode to a current season.
Yep. I am "glad" I got no life and can play hours each day, allowing me to stay on top of the raid group requirements, getting to HCs easily.
Well yeah they ran ward groups and frog farms to get enough gear to not need Ward anymore
Ward cheese lets people that's not supergeared to skip bosses. Without ward cheese only super-geared people can rush raids, which is stupid.
Agreed which is why I've constantly been advocating for gear upgrade costs to be reduced. I really think these were very off-putting and deterred people from choosing power even though power first was probably the best option because that would accelerate the rate you gained bronze for cosmetics later on while feeling OP af. I skipped buying cosmetics and chose power and my character is basically maxed out on every slot almost with over two months left to buy cosmetics and mounts that I'm missing, which probably won't actually take me that long to finish. Another big problem is that I'd like to make an alt powerful but probably won't because I don't want do the entire upgrade grind again from scratch.
Honestly if they just made your “found ilvl” transfer to Alts so you can upgrade them at discounted rate it would be way better. Makes it feel less bad losing all the threads you have on your main and will make leveling smoother at the later levels when your gear matters a lot more - you can always have current ilvl gear. Would basically be a buff to bronze generation without reducing play time, you know have more characters that are more powerful and able to farm raids/dailies more quickly.
This might be the most reddit comment I've seen yet on the remix subject.
The Righteous Frenzy gem did not need a change. There are people sitting in Shrine just killing afk people now.
it needs to not apply the debuff out of combat, its so fucking annoying trying to heal someone after combat only tyo be fighting my own dot
New fun unlocked
What the hell is the point of this? I don’t even run ward, taught my ToT group last night how to do dark animus without it but seriously. It’s a time limited event, it’s been almost 2 weeks already. Just why?
Force people to have to buy overpriced gear upgrades if they want to take part in max level content so they spend longer gathering bronze for mounts and cosmetics. Ward was allowing un-upgraded players to breeze through some content and bypass blizzards massive intended bronze sink, unacceptable!
$$$
I thought this event was supposed to be marketed as "overpowered" but they have since nerfed every single farm, and made it more grindy and tedious to acquire power... massive L yet again.
They're actually going to do balance sweeps in a three month long 4fun mode set in a 10 year old expansion ICANT
I can kinda get teh Ward Cheese but Slay is just.. part of how Remix works, why nerf it?
Thank god now I can do life storm without these pugs whining at me lmao
Life Storm was essential for a good Ward setup.
Keyword here is *was*
life storm and searing light does some decent dmg
It’s siiick
Life storm also stacked with ward extremely well. Ward raids should have used both...
My guild cleared 2 raids in like 2 hours last night with all ward and 1 guy running lifestorm. We all put ward on the off tank and guy popped his lifestorm and 1 tapped the bosses with wards. Idk why I’m explaining it now that it’s gone but gg I geuss
I love mass pulling and then turning into a hairy boi too much. It's actually wicked powerful if you are on the receiving end of the mother of all beat downs.
Creates a fun mode. Constantly nerfs it.
Legit 0 reason to bring a healer to raid now. Have everyone run Vindication and Lifestorm meta.
That was already the case, healers haven't been necessary at all.
Outside of the 40k Bronze for leveling, have they done anything *other than nerf*????
Pretty much no. The few buffs have been pathetic, and they've been almost solidly nerfing everything in the mode they advertised as "overpowered and fun". What's particularly awful is they've been nerfing more rapidly and in more ways than they would dare to do on live. It's active perversity. Whoever is in charge of Remix should not be allowed within 300 yards of Retail WoW.
Just wait until the last 2 weeks when they eventually cave and decide to let people gear up and have fun. Edit: they just said they won’t be nerfing gear costs. Imagine lmao.
Watch them just revert every nerf and give us week 1 remix again but on the last week with all the other bronze buffs. Remix could have been litty with all the farms available
Lmao fuck this. Congratulations Blizzard! You've successfully managed to advertise a fun and overpowered game mode then consistently nerf it every couple of days. We can't farm the cloak for stats, we can't farm bronze very fast to upgrade gear and God forbid buying mounts and toys, and now we can't farm heroic raids because we can't farm the cloak or bronze. Fuck you Blizzard.
We really just can’t have any fun can we? Why is there so much micromanaging in the mode that’s supposed to basically be a sandbox?
There's been more micromanaging in Remix than in S4 or SOD P3.
Blizzard doesn't really change. Mop Remix is like Ashran all over--they created a fun but flawed experience and will keep progressively ruining it by trying to "fix" it to be more balance.
At this point I'm just over the constant helicopter parenting that is the dev team for remix. I just want to get my stupid cosmetics and go play something actually enjoy. I never thought I would say this but I miss the plunderstorm grind and actually enjoyed it more than this because at least it was short enough to finish in a week.
I don't hate ward being nerfed... But how about Blizz compensate thst nerf by making it not cost 600k bronze to max out your gear?
So glad I finished my Meta HC achievement yesterday. Now if only live saw similar balancing changes.
Now bringing any one not low level or people who have upgraded their gear is completely worthless.
Guilds will not be able to clear heroic now when they used to be able to, lots of outrage posts coming *insert picture of John snow winter is coming*
Hope you didn’t main a healer cause now there is no reason to bring any of those to raids.
Most of my heroic raids would have wiped without the one healer we brought and they are mostly needed in mythic. Won’t be for long though.
There wasn't a reason to in the first place.
True but they could throw three heals into the wards and say see I’m helping!
Feels so bad to be a healer anyways. Nobody needs healing, and other than low level jank scaling, I don't do any meaningful damage even with boosted gear.
Funnily enough, ward changes seem to have made it really good for geared characters. I had a warlock put it on my havoc dh (556 gear, 14k agi cloak) and it did 280m dmg on a boss (there was some aoe so victory fire probably procced good). I tried it on the next boss and it did 60m for me. So in the end it seems like it just hurt lower geared players which makes even less sense.
Great, now reduce upgrade costs so I won't need that shit.
Honestly, how can Blizzard keep messing up this badly?? The Ward cheese has been around for over a week and they decide to nerf it NOW?? They're only making raids slower and harder, for WHAT?
because their plan is to make this a slog until the week dawntrail launches which will coincidentally be when they announce all bronze drops are doubled save this post and watch
People have been saying that since this mode launched and yes, absolutely Blizzard will do that. Somewhere between 50% of the way and 2 weeks from the end they'll buff the shit out of Bronze or otherwise trivialize it, and make it so that there was literally no reason to be playing earlier.
Don't care about the ward nerf because ward cheese was basically pointless once you got some gear but the slay nerf is just a bruh moment.
Hotfix 05/30/2024 - We identified all Characters who raided heroic content with boss kills using the ward cheese. We removed all their earned bronze and threads, which were earned through this bug abuse. We are working on a hotfix to reduce their item level to an appropriate amount.
Don't give them ideas. We may joke about it now, but considering how unprofessional this dev team is... you never know
This basically happened to my main remix character my rogue. I didn’t excessively frog farm and yet my cloak got rolled back and taken down to 1/3 of what it was from grinding raids, dungeons and dailies every day. They just deemed my character too powerful to exist because I degenned the first week so I was labelled as a frog guy. This literally could happen later today with “warders” or “ward cheesers” in the same fashion, and then nerf more innocent players in the nerf wave who still aren’t even able to solo raids anyways so it’s not like those players were game breaking to begin with.
yup same for me, farmed frogs for 2 hours total, and then did 6 days of endgame content the week after.. blizzard decided that those 6 days of me playing the game doing endgame content wasn't worth shit because i did 2 hours of frog farm and rolled it all back. lost like 60-70% of my cloaks power.
Because THIS is what we needed. More nerfs and a worse grind. What the actual fuck are they thinking?
Definitely another blow to my motivation to play Remix. Consistent nerfs but nothing addressing player’s concerns about gear and bronze and such. Overpowered? Nope. Fun? Nope.
Mop remix is the biggest blizzard social experiment to see how fast people will quit based on nerfing the entire point of the game mode. It’s like how long can we string them along by nerfing and buffing shit, one hundred percent you know there’s some chuds in a back room at blizzard headquarters crunching numbers to see how they can manipulate their lab rats (players). Kinda schizo but real shit at the same time
The more they nerf cheesy strategies to bring down bosses, the more we will see higher requirements of cloak stats, item level and the raid leader not inviting you until you "link achievement" We were promised fun, but will it not be applied to alts, new and casual players? Also "Bataari Yaungol farm nerfed" - How are you supposed to catch up as a new character when you keep removing the most efficent way to gain infinite threads? At least buff the thread rewards of defeating raid bosses.
you dont
Nerfing fun in a limited time game mode that has no purpose but for literally fun, achievements and transmogs. Classic fucking blizzard.
Why? Seriously, why are you doing this Blizz? Some comunicatuon would be nice. Why did you advertise this as some crazy whacky FUN way to level, then immediately turn around and nerf shit harder than retail? I am not trying to be facetious or anything. I genuinely don't understand the thought process here... something that was supposed to just be a FUN temporary event to go crazy until the Xpac dropped, and so far every week you guys have nerfed anything that stood out as fun. Let's just clear things up right now. Are we supposed to be overpowered and plowing through shit laughing and having fun, or not? Because there is obviously some uhh... "miscommunication" happening.
tbf ward cheese isn't useful for leveling, I haven't seen any ward runs accept low levels, low level runs work on jank scaling not meta cheese.
I was getting into groups just fine while levelling and doing ward cheese. It’s definitely useful for levelling since it gets through the raid quicker, getting the xp bonus threads faster, and just blasting through levels.
It’s actually getting old how remix is getting more changes in 10 days it’s existed than s2,s3, and s4 got in all aspects of the game combined. Pvp, mythic plus, and raid got less cumulative changes than a limited time mode designed to be broken - or so we were misled into believing anyways.
I stopped playing this after they blatantly lied about what it would be.
Same. I'm waiting until they cave and make it worth playing. My panda alt is just collecting dust now.
I leveled 6 characters to level 70 for the 40k bronze each for all the mounts and the mogs that I really wanted. The only thing left is some mogs I don’t really care about so I’m done now, what can I say except you’re welcome (to blizzard for boosting their quarterly performance numbers for 2 weeks)
Cool. I am still loving it, as are many others.
Thank god ward was boring af.
Yes but it was also a crutch we casual 1-2h/day could use to get raids done without leaning on the more hardcore Frog Lords and the likes.
Well there goes my last legs for anything but low-effort leveling in this mode. They're doing more to nerf player enjoyment of this in a week than balancing the SoD cluster-fun since like phase 2. Really sad to see.
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They have different teams for each game mode, but it sure feels like this is just the SoD team working double shifts for remix
Kinda seems like the SoD team running Remix
Same here I actually unsubbed. I liked running raids quickly with Guildies doing ward on our alts farming transmog and mounts. I have no interest I. Upgrading gear on MoP alts but here we are, clearing a normal raid now takes 3-5x as long with fresh 70s, AND you have to do mechanics on certain bosses or you get one shot. Didn’t they announce the event as WE will be doing the one shots ? Or did they mean we are the ones getting one shot ?
This is fine. To be fair ward was kinda crazy but with all the nerfs I can see a lot of the current playerbase leaving. My drive to play my main is completely gone.
They are fucking idiots.
To a certain point, I understand the Ward nerfs, even if I don't agree with the decision. I am completely baffled by the change to Slay. It's been a lot of fun to think of 10% as the boss dying. There's far too much effort being put into making what was supposed to be a wacky mode play a lot more like retail lite instead.
THEY BUFFED SEARING LIGHT?!
Why. Are. We. Nerfing. Remix. Isn't that the whole point?!?!
Why the hell did they buff searing light? Any tank, especially brewmaster. Just run lifespirit, warmth, Righteous Frenzy, and searing light, have your raid cast a bunch of lifespirit, stand in it, nuke the boss with damage.
Hope they can fine-tune dark animus a little.
Overpowered? Maybe* Fun? Maybe** *No **Also no
They gonna buff anything or just keep nerfing things in a mode that doesn't hit overpowered vibes unless you're a fresh alt following a maxed out cloak, or you capitalized on their rapid respawn areas before those got nerfed? I make a fresh character on live with heirlooms, and I feel stronger and level just as fast. But it's far quicker to feel powerful at 70 on live than it is remix. I'm enjoying the event, but they absolutely failed at and keep failing at the advertised experience. Nothing about this mode feels overpowered for the average player.
They buffed searing light..... so the lvl 20 heroic dungeon farmers are eating good
Wtf was the point of this patch? If I wanted to slog through old content, I would play classic. I leveled in pandaria when it was current content, I don't want to do it again.
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I think it's only good at low levels when you're healing higher level players. Something about the scaling makes it pump out insane damage. When you hit level 70 it doesn't seem to do any damage at all.
All I want is a discount for upgrading my alts gear to incentivize playing more than one character.
Still waiting to see when I’ll be “overpowered”. I haven’t felt OP on wow since this mob scaling nonsense became a thing.
Those nerfs Hit my normal ToT mid raid. Took us 2 hours for a normal clear. But the ward nerfs are alright. In a 10 man it still hit for atleast 50% if done right. But you definitely felt the Slay nerf. Only did like 2-3% on Most bosses