Kyle did it without a redshirt year though, and I feel like he has more impressive wins (like bumping up to beat David Taylor multiple times in the same year, who was arguably considered the top p4p guy up to that point.)
>It's so close. But, Cael not slipping up a single time at the D1 level is insane.239ReplyShareReportSaveFollow
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>level 2GodLikeYou · 1 day agoKyle did it without a redshirt year though, and I feel like he has more impressive wins (like bumping up to beat David Taylor multiple times in the same year, who was arguably considered the top p4p guy up to that point.)
His win over Molinaro was also very impressive. Lol at taking bottom in the second when you didn't even come close to getting out in 2.5+ minutes in the first.
Yeah I mean 3/4 people that Dake beat in the finals ended up being or were previously NCAA champs themselves.
Cael's best win is probably Daniel Cormier who went on to be an Olympian and also win Bronze at worlds.
But, he didn't "bump up." He gained weight and wrestled in that weight class. Bump up would suggest that he wrestled at a higher weight class for a match or two. They wrestled at 165 at the Scuffle, and at NCAA. Only way you could say he "bumped up"would be if he wrestled the rest of the season at 157.
I think in the sense that nobody ever just jumps a weight class every year and more so retains the national title. But you're right in the sense that it is typically used
I just mean that he went up a weight, could have worded it better. He could have stayed at 157 but I think he wanted to make history, and also it helped the team because they had more options at 157.
It's hard to be more impressive than never losing even a single match.
Never took an opponent too lightly. Never took a night off. Never got caught slipping even a single time... you can't beat that.
Cael wins this one.
Cael as it takes a lot never to slip up when wrestling 40 matches/year over 4 years. Plus the fact he beat Cormier every time is super impressive.
Dake’s only leg up is talent was way deeper at the weight classes he wrestled. Besting Taylor was a big deal.
Both are impressive, but that 0 in the loss column always puts Carl at #1.
Paul Jenn was the Iowa wrestler who gave Cael his only collegiate loss as a redshirt. When Cael was varsity and wrestled Jenn, Cael majored him.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that Jenn is no longer with us. Died shortly after his career ended.
I heard about it and I’ve looked for the stat for years but could never confirm it. Had a few friends wrestle for Iowa Central and say that an ICC got god the nod over chael at an open tournament during preseason
Cael hands down. Dake had an impressive career, but you can’t go undefeated and act like that’s a small feat. Also, he has the Olympic gold, which Dake has yet to accomplish and already past the timeline when Cael got his.
I guess it means that's he would wrestle new opponents every year. Not like staying in the same weight class, and having familiarity with the same opponents.
I think both are tied for the #1 accomplishments in college wrestling.
Perfection is so difficult. And yet, especially his senior year going up to Taylor’s weight it’s just as impressive for Dake.
So I punt and say both!
Dake moved up his senior year into the weight class of the defending Hodge winner. He could have coasted to what would essentially be the Mt Rushmore of college wrestling, becoming only the 3rd 4x champ, but instead he chose to move up to face David fucking Taylor. He also didn’t redshirt.
Not close is an insane statement.
I don't understand why winning as you gain weight is such a big deal. He wasn't wrestling up weight classes, he was gaining weight.
Lots of guys have won, moved up a weight, then won again. From 1999 to 2023 Sanderson, Rosholt, Wright, Dieringer, Yianni, and Ruth all did it. Heck, Cassar never won, went to to heavy, and took out a heavy favorite. Now, name all of the guys during that time period who won NCAA, went up a weight, and didn't win the following year.
The most impressive thing about Dake is he won it as a true freshman, not that he gained weight. I might even argue that not fighting the weight gain might be easier than staying at the same weight. Presumably, most college guys are gaining weight naturally those four years, so the cut gets harder and harder.
Can you mf read it’s insinuating college careers.. you dumb fucks keep bringing shit outside college we all know Cael won gold if u a real wrestler/ old enough.
That being said I think Cael college career is slightly more impressive but I think Dake beat better wrestlers in his journey imo that sport had grown so much from Cael to dake/dt era and continues to grow.
Not only did Cael never lose, his bonus rate is through the roof! He never lost and he smashed people.
Kyle was the king of not letting people score but 3-0, 5-0 with 6 minutes of riding time is really boring to watch.
Honestly I think Dake is the greatest NCAA wrestler of all time because the competition he faced was much greater. I know Cael wrestled Cormier, but Dake wrestled without a redshirt, got taken down three times (as far as I know) over four years of college, he barely ever lost, barely ever got scored on, and his match against Frank Molinaro (in my opinion) is the single biggest beatdown handed out in NCAA Finals history. Molinaro had literally no offense, was never even close to scoring (minus the wimpy penalty point with the stupid rule), and got absolutely manhandled. Not to undersell how absolutely impossible it is to wrestle 159 matches (I wish guys now would wrestle more than 10-20 matches per year) and never once make a match-ending mistake, never once slip up, no nights off, grind through every tournament, run through NCAA tournament after NCAA tournament, sit down every opponent at every dual (in convincing fashion). Both dudes are absurdly talented, but imo Dake was better
I want to add in that it's 4 losses we are talking about with 0 as his competition got tougher junior and senior year. The other major thing everyone forgets, Cornell is a much harder school to excel academically in, let alone even get in. The dudes having to attend some of the toughest classes in the country while wrestling at that level. Iowa state is mostly known for ag and engineering, and as an Indiana resident Purdue is top 3 in those fields and if I can attend those classes with Purdue being harder than Iowa state but I could not get into Cornell.... that adds merit. Like the good old saying its easy at Ohio state taking basket weaving and playing sports. Being dominant at an ivy league I'll take that up to 10 losses any day and still give it to dake 🤣.
But don't get me wrong I love cael but wrestling is a world sport. To be that good and not have more I mean come on Kurt Angle has a gold. I just feel like the best college wrestler should have wrestled at the world level more to solidify his world class status. Like Brady/Manning winning a superbowls with another team.
Harder to start off heavier. That’s why in NJ state wrestling circles people would talk about Damion Hahn in the convo for goat even though he wasn’t a 4-timer. (3x) because he did it at a heavier weight from freshman year on
Cael Sanderson’s record is the most impressive. Dake certainly is super impressive, though. I don’t think winning in different weight classes makes him impressive (beating Taylor does). Dake’s record is similar to that of Pat Smith’s. Smith had 5 losses and won it as a true freshman (his redshirt came between jr and sr year when OSU was on post-season probation).
Other super impressive performances in different eras (when freshman were ineligible and 3 titles were the most you could win): Danny Hodge (undefeated and never taken down), Yojiro Uetake (undefeated, 3x champion), Earl McCready (undefeated 3x champ), Ross Flood (undefeated 3x champ), Rex Peery (undefeated 3x champ), Hugh Peery (undefeated 3x champ). I’m sure I’m missing some. Those are all outstanding performances that rival anything Sanderson or Dake did (for their time). Hodge and Uetake really stand out. Uetake may be the greatest wrestler that ever lived.
It's so close. But, Cael not slipping up a single time at the D1 level is insane.
Kyle did it without a redshirt year though, and I feel like he has more impressive wins (like bumping up to beat David Taylor multiple times in the same year, who was arguably considered the top p4p guy up to that point.)
>It's so close. But, Cael not slipping up a single time at the D1 level is insane.239ReplyShareReportSaveFollow > >level 2GodLikeYou · 1 day agoKyle did it without a redshirt year though, and I feel like he has more impressive wins (like bumping up to beat David Taylor multiple times in the same year, who was arguably considered the top p4p guy up to that point.) His win over Molinaro was also very impressive. Lol at taking bottom in the second when you didn't even come close to getting out in 2.5+ minutes in the first.
Yeah I mean 3/4 people that Dake beat in the finals ended up being or were previously NCAA champs themselves. Cael's best win is probably Daniel Cormier who went on to be an Olympian and also win Bronze at worlds.
What year did Dake "bump up" and beat DT multiple times in the same year?
2013 i believe
But, he didn't "bump up." He gained weight and wrestled in that weight class. Bump up would suggest that he wrestled at a higher weight class for a match or two. They wrestled at 165 at the Scuffle, and at NCAA. Only way you could say he "bumped up"would be if he wrestled the rest of the season at 157.
I think in the sense that nobody ever just jumps a weight class every year and more so retains the national title. But you're right in the sense that it is typically used
I just mean that he went up a weight, could have worded it better. He could have stayed at 157 but I think he wanted to make history, and also it helped the team because they had more options at 157.
It's hard to be more impressive than never losing even a single match. Never took an opponent too lightly. Never took a night off. Never got caught slipping even a single time... you can't beat that. Cael wins this one.
159 upvotes this comment has, at the time.of me writing this.
Cael as it takes a lot never to slip up when wrestling 40 matches/year over 4 years. Plus the fact he beat Cormier every time is super impressive. Dake’s only leg up is talent was way deeper at the weight classes he wrestled. Besting Taylor was a big deal. Both are impressive, but that 0 in the loss column always puts Carl at #1.
Going undefeated all 4yrs of Division 1 college wrestling is more impressive. However, what Kyle did is no small feat. Much props to him too!
Dake's, going up a new weight with new opponents every year is very impressive. Cael technically lost a single match his redshirt year.
Redshirt doesn’t count for varsity stats. He also made sure to tell Paul Jenn (RIP) who was the better wrestler period.
Officially it doesn't, but to me every match you go out there to compete counts. Just my personal opinion.
>He also made sure to tell Paul Jenn (RIP) who was the better wrestler period. What do you mean?
Paul Jenn was the Iowa wrestler who gave Cael his only collegiate loss as a redshirt. When Cael was varsity and wrestled Jenn, Cael majored him. EDIT: Forgot to mention that Jenn is no longer with us. Died shortly after his career ended.
I didn't know cael wrestled him again at varsity, but I thought you were saying cael literally told him that.
Metaphorically.
Didn’t know he had a redshirt year!
People on this sub don’t like to talk about it.
I heard about it and I’ve looked for the stat for years but could never confirm it. Had a few friends wrestle for Iowa Central and say that an ICC got god the nod over chael at an open tournament during preseason
I think its more impressive to dominate a heavier weight as a freshman.
Cael hands down. Dake had an impressive career, but you can’t go undefeated and act like that’s a small feat. Also, he has the Olympic gold, which Dake has yet to accomplish and already past the timeline when Cael got his.
Dake is impressive. But Cael all the way!!
In addition to being undefeated, Cael had the highest bonus rate ever by a crazy amount. Cael, and it's not that close
Why is a different weight class so impressive?
I guess it means that's he would wrestle new opponents every year. Not like staying in the same weight class, and having familiarity with the same opponents.
Yeah, I don't get it. I've found that putting on weight is really easy. Keeping it off as a college kid isn't so easy.
I mean - the weight classes he wrestled in were much deeper than Cael’s. Not saying it’s more impressive but I see the argument.
I know he said he wont, but if Carter wins 5, where would you put him? True Freshman champ and 5 years straight…
I think both are tied for the #1 accomplishments in college wrestling. Perfection is so difficult. And yet, especially his senior year going up to Taylor’s weight it’s just as impressive for Dake. So I punt and say both!
I’d say Dakes achievements are more impressive.
Dake hasn’t done anything nearly as impressive as Cael’s Olympic gold
4 world gold medals and a bronze olympic medal is pretty damn close lmao
That wasn’t the question though.
Dake gets my nod for best wrestler who never won Olympic Gold.
Kolat for me. He got screwed out of so many gold medals. Dake could still get his though, hopefully.
the post is about college achievements not international tho
Cael and it's not close
Dake moved up his senior year into the weight class of the defending Hodge winner. He could have coasted to what would essentially be the Mt Rushmore of college wrestling, becoming only the 3rd 4x champ, but instead he chose to move up to face David fucking Taylor. He also didn’t redshirt. Not close is an insane statement.
Not close lol? Ok
Kale Dake for sure did you see that dude, some might disagree!
I saw him, like watching paint dry.
I don't understand why winning as you gain weight is such a big deal. He wasn't wrestling up weight classes, he was gaining weight. Lots of guys have won, moved up a weight, then won again. From 1999 to 2023 Sanderson, Rosholt, Wright, Dieringer, Yianni, and Ruth all did it. Heck, Cassar never won, went to to heavy, and took out a heavy favorite. Now, name all of the guys during that time period who won NCAA, went up a weight, and didn't win the following year. The most impressive thing about Dake is he won it as a true freshman, not that he gained weight. I might even argue that not fighting the weight gain might be easier than staying at the same weight. Presumably, most college guys are gaining weight naturally those four years, so the cut gets harder and harder.
David Carr (157->165), Mahki Lewis (165->174, although a year off) that’s 2 just in the last year or so.
Dake
Why these two men aren't on any list of the greatest athletes ever, is a crime
Dake would have beaten Cael if if they would have matched up in college, just like he beat Taylor every single time they wrestled.
Let's simplify, anyone that wins 4 titles is an insane feat.
Dake, people ran from Cael
Can you mf read it’s insinuating college careers.. you dumb fucks keep bringing shit outside college we all know Cael won gold if u a real wrestler/ old enough. That being said I think Cael college career is slightly more impressive but I think Dake beat better wrestlers in his journey imo that sport had grown so much from Cael to dake/dt era and continues to grow.
Not only did Cael never lose, his bonus rate is through the roof! He never lost and he smashed people. Kyle was the king of not letting people score but 3-0, 5-0 with 6 minutes of riding time is really boring to watch.
Cael but it’s close. Is just crazy to not lose once in four years.
Honestly I think Dake is the greatest NCAA wrestler of all time because the competition he faced was much greater. I know Cael wrestled Cormier, but Dake wrestled without a redshirt, got taken down three times (as far as I know) over four years of college, he barely ever lost, barely ever got scored on, and his match against Frank Molinaro (in my opinion) is the single biggest beatdown handed out in NCAA Finals history. Molinaro had literally no offense, was never even close to scoring (minus the wimpy penalty point with the stupid rule), and got absolutely manhandled. Not to undersell how absolutely impossible it is to wrestle 159 matches (I wish guys now would wrestle more than 10-20 matches per year) and never once make a match-ending mistake, never once slip up, no nights off, grind through every tournament, run through NCAA tournament after NCAA tournament, sit down every opponent at every dual (in convincing fashion). Both dudes are absurdly talented, but imo Dake was better
I want to add in that it's 4 losses we are talking about with 0 as his competition got tougher junior and senior year. The other major thing everyone forgets, Cornell is a much harder school to excel academically in, let alone even get in. The dudes having to attend some of the toughest classes in the country while wrestling at that level. Iowa state is mostly known for ag and engineering, and as an Indiana resident Purdue is top 3 in those fields and if I can attend those classes with Purdue being harder than Iowa state but I could not get into Cornell.... that adds merit. Like the good old saying its easy at Ohio state taking basket weaving and playing sports. Being dominant at an ivy league I'll take that up to 10 losses any day and still give it to dake 🤣. But don't get me wrong I love cael but wrestling is a world sport. To be that good and not have more I mean come on Kurt Angle has a gold. I just feel like the best college wrestler should have wrestled at the world level more to solidify his world class status. Like Brady/Manning winning a superbowls with another team.
Harder to start off heavier. That’s why in NJ state wrestling circles people would talk about Damion Hahn in the convo for goat even though he wasn’t a 4-timer. (3x) because he did it at a heavier weight from freshman year on
141 and 149 are tougher weights than 184
Not for a freshman in my opinion. Those weights have a younger mix than the upper weights
Going undefeated I think could be done “easier” than what Dake did
Cael Sanderson’s record is the most impressive. Dake certainly is super impressive, though. I don’t think winning in different weight classes makes him impressive (beating Taylor does). Dake’s record is similar to that of Pat Smith’s. Smith had 5 losses and won it as a true freshman (his redshirt came between jr and sr year when OSU was on post-season probation). Other super impressive performances in different eras (when freshman were ineligible and 3 titles were the most you could win): Danny Hodge (undefeated and never taken down), Yojiro Uetake (undefeated, 3x champion), Earl McCready (undefeated 3x champ), Ross Flood (undefeated 3x champ), Rex Peery (undefeated 3x champ), Hugh Peery (undefeated 3x champ). I’m sure I’m missing some. Those are all outstanding performances that rival anything Sanderson or Dake did (for their time). Hodge and Uetake really stand out. Uetake may be the greatest wrestler that ever lived.