I always feel bad for the mutants who got screwed over and didn’t have a cool, practical mutant power. “So what’s your power?” “Eh I can conjure up hairballs on command “
I know people already did that conversation multiple times about mutants accepting themselves and ther powers but some cases that just don't work, Long neck and Ugly Jon are examples,i have see a girl that her power is having 3 mouths in her neck and a guy that his just blue
I wanna hear about mutants that have practical powers but they're kind of hard to separate from just normal every day stuff. Like somebody whose power is to know when someone touches the thermostat. Another person whose power just let's them make good bread but not great bread no matter what. Another whose power is do something that everyone else can do by phone except use the internet or make calls or text. Nothing but nifty powers, but most definitely not cool ones.
Always felt those were terrible in the Marvel Universe setting.
Sounds like something to be done in My Hero Academia setting tho.
Not that every mutant needs to be Omega level. However, to use your example, "My power is only to know when someone touches the thermostat" is just so meh :p
However a more useful but not earth shattering power to go for that type of deal and working good in the setting, of course imo, is Cypher.
They already do it. The guy who skin is blue is an example. Warren's lawyer's mutant power is a photographic memory. Besides, who says they can't be effective teammates despite lame powers?
Like maybe the bread guy was a secret agent the whole time. Lots of powerless people do ok for themselves in the Marvel universe.
A) the boringness is the appeal. It’s not supposed to be epic, it’s supposed to be meh.
B) Marvel kinda already has a shit ton of mutants and the like with powers that are uninteresting. They just don’t get spotlight all that much for obvious reasons.
I think Extraordinary does this really well. The main character is bummed because she doesn't have any powers but so many of the people around her have just terrible powers no one would want.
Like the guy who automatically censors things around him or the woman whose only power is being stuck in a tweenager's body.
Even the useful ones have major drawbacks like the guy who can walk through walls but can only do it when naked (and he's painfully shy) her sister loses her spot in a prestigious music conservatory because she can no longer play without her super strength breaking the instrument. A major character can turn into a cat but runs the risk of not being able to turn back because the cat doesn't know how. Etc. Etc.
my x-sona is a useless psychic - she can alter the future by subtly influencing human minds within about 10km... only problem is she has *absolutely no control beyond triggering the effect and her desired outcome*. stakes tend to scale, so it's not like it'll trigger a car accident to delay the bus a few minutes but things could get dicey *fast* in a real fight. the idea of someone with *insane* super powers but no utility has always been really funny to me.
That was awful, what makes it extra awful is in recent years they have another mutant with similar powers and it's solved by a simple containment suit.
Yeah the damage was done though he killed his entire town the emotional damage would have taken it toll. Like the kid with a death touch or rogue a containment suit deprives them of physical touch humans need that.
I am a touch adverse autistic and I wanted to be Rogue so bad as a child but I get what you're saying that much isolation would be hard on most people.
Even some well known mutants have powers that are only useful in combat situations.
Like what does Cyclops do with his powers once the war is won and mutants are accepted?
They're like, "In 100 years, humans will be replaced by mutants!" And I'm like, "In 100 years, everyone alive will have been replaced by future people, no matter what. The future people are the real enemy."
In just 20 years, your 20 year older future self is going to take everything your 19 year old future self had. Your 19 year old future self will have nothing, if we don't stop your 20 year old future self, right now.
And I'm like, "Man. This is some heavy shit. We better build super big robots."
Yeah, but if you're racist, you feel like you own the future, or that a future is something THEY are stealing from you, even though the future by definition belongs to people who don't yet exist.
Genuinely, I think one of the ways people cope with death is by identifying strongly with their nation or culture, which they believe will carry their memory forward forever. So when white people hear about the end of white people, it's like they're staring down the barrel of a gun.
Definitely getting off topic for X-men but that's an interesting thought. 'Whiteness' according to white supremacist ideology always seems to in contention with the cultures of the people it claims to be prioritising. It's always surprising how little room there is for folk or regional culture in white hegemony and what is taken is flattened and smushed to fit the sensibilities of that dominant power. Maybe there's a feeling that whiteness and genetics are the only things left to pass down.
I mean, yeah? Idk, maybe this is an American vs. European mentality, but I don't get how "I don't want my people to disappear be a minority in their land" is racist.
Because it assumes that your genetics are what matter most. The colour of your skin or such. It ultimately doesn’t truly matter what colour people live on your land.
And culturally, your people are going to go extinct someday. That’s how it goes, culture evolves far faster than biology, cultures get wiped out or evolve into something else entirely. Your people WILL die out and be replaced, there’s nothing you can do to prevent that. The only difference is whether your replacements are descended from you and you alone, or people from all over.
If they're descended from you, then it's not replacement, it's continuation. And no, culture evolving is not the same as going extinct. Our language, customs, music etc. May have changed over time, but it's still recognizable in its previous forms.
now you've got me imagining if the tensions within orchis post-inferno were handled well instead of being dumped almost off-screen so we can get to the fistfights
I keep waiting for someone to point out that the villains are people who want to own the future, and the heroes are the ones who want to protect people who currently actually exist. I mean, that distinction SEEMS to sort of run through the entire narrative, but they don't seem to realize it's actually a theme.
And it's a really good theme! Hammer home that these reckless, amoral villains with their ends justifying their means are just trying to own the future by killing the present. Douglas Adams had a good bit on that.
Generally speaking writers don't want to deal with the last writer's leavings except in passing. This isn't new and it won't be because these new writers are being lazy. Hickman just used an indeterminate time skip to ignore everything that came before and magic everyone into the positions he wanted them in. This is how it goes.
TLDR; they'll probably touch on it here or there while mostly doing their own thing.
Actually it’s even simpler than that. If mutants and humans can produce offspring naturally, and those offspring are also fertile (at a broad scale, individual circumstances may vary) they are definitionally the same species.
The fact that two nonmutants can have a mutant child or visa versa is the biggest tell to me. Coyotes and wolves can have fertile offspring (and there is some ambiguity about the divide between the species), but two coyotes aren’t going to produce a wolf or visa versa
yup, this is one I bring up whenever people go too far down the humans vs mutants line of reasoning. The fact that they can interbreed is huge, and should be enough frankly, but the fact that it can go either way at any time and with any combination of parents makes even considering them two different things ludicrous.
Yes, which is why the fact that it can go backwards is so vital. Two human parents can produce a mutant, and two mutant parents can produce a human. Two human parents do not produce a skrull, and two skrull parents ABSOLUTELY do not produce a human.
Yeah, I'm not sure you understand how evolution works. If humans are descended from apes, we don't just periodically produce ape babies, and ape babies don't just periodically produce humans. It's not a die that gets rolled when you procreate. What DOES happen is that genes can be switched on or off based on the vagaries of genetics. This does not make someone a different species, it just makes them red-haired or green-eyed or whatever. Which, given that the canon explanation for mutant superpowers is a gene is EXACTLY what mutants are supposed to be.
Mutants are humans. It's as simple as that. Hell, as someone else pointed out the sentinels even acknowledge this in the show. On top of that, trying to argue they're not is just idiotic becuase it destroys the message. If mutants are ACTUALLY a separate species that represents a clear and present danger to not only human safety, but the well-being of the planet and arguably the universe, then every single anti-mutant bigot in the history of the series HAS A POINT, and they're not a stand-in for real minorities at all because real minorities are absolutely just people.
The fact that this idea that they're not human actually has supporters among the fandom is just baffling.
Did you watch the series with your eyes closed the entire argument around bastion was that Mutants ARE the next step in evolution, and thus will make humanity permanently extinct. I’m not gonna argue what was confirmed yet again. Have fun being in denial
It’s not about his opinion are you slow?💀 I heavily disagreed with his arguments and don’t sympathize with him at all. But he has knowledge of the future and knows that mutants are there to replace humanity as the next evolutionary step. This was also confirmed in the comics by Beast that in 20 years mutant population would already surpass the human one, and again in powers of X with the librarian confirmed that when it comes to natural evolution they are the next step. This is like old news that everyone who actually reads the X-men know about, again keep being in denial. You against the writers
Which is why I loved one of Bastions lines in the 97 episode. Paraphrasing.
What are the taxi drivers going to do if Nightcrawler decides to start working in NYC?
Makes the whole anti mutant thing a little less dumb.
Or shutting off a gene pretty much makes them a normal human(physical mutations aside and even that's iffy).
Then again Human begins in sci fi are like the easiest beings to breed with though.
Also consider that in Marvel the human population has been gene-edited by like every advanced civilisation at some point. All independently of each other.
I’m not even a biologist, or really that into science at all. But my brain is a mess of sourceless factoids and data so I recalled something about what defines a species having to do with fertility. I did look it up for a quick check before posting but I’m sure things are more nuanced than I phrased it.
it's... *gestures vaguely*
generally yes. a species is defined as a reproductivly isolated population - whether it be geographical, physical or behavioral... but that can change if the species in question have similar physiology. don't even get me *started* on plants, christ knows what genetic shenanigans they're getting up to.
I did figure plants got all kinds of fucked up, but then most animals can’t have say, a leg cut off and another one from a different but similar ish animal spliced on so comfortably.
One of my professors would remark that biologists just throw shit at the wall, hoping it'll stick. Advancements in DNA really changed a lot; from what I've read. Like, how many slight mutations does this population of this bird that nests in bridges need to be considered a different species?
If they can interbreed with humans and come from humans, and live and think like humans, they are humans. I know the series often states mutants are this new species like you say, but the actual presentation is at odds with that, as well as evolution in general not working like that. At the end of the day they are humans who got born with weird attributes.
So they aren’t humans, humans aren’t born with “weird attributes” lmao. But whatever your opinion is I would advise to never again use the “interbreed” and “think” argument because everyone knows that that’s the case for literal aliens too yet everyone seems to forget in these convos
In the case here, the story is engaging in a big suspension of disbelief. No, aliens under no circumstances should be able to have kids with humans and would almost certainly not be human shaped. Humans would have more genetically in common with an ear of corn than any alien.
That said, I will walk back some of my point as people who cannot breed because of genetic conditions in our world are certainly not seen as non human. That’s kind of my point. Mutant humans do technically exist in our world. They just have small variances in genetics. We would not say they are not human.
The fears surrounding mutants replacing humans are in my opinion irrational.
The idea stems from the basic belief that evolution is one race supplants another because they are better able to survive and breed.
For one mutants arent really a new species anyway. They are more akin to evolutionary contemporaries like the Neanderthals were to Sapiens.
But the thing is the society we live in today no longer selects quite as strongly as pre-Agricultural/Industrial world would anyway so its unlikely mutants can supplant humans due to the change in selection pressures short of one race actively wiping out the other.
And I mean most mutant powers dont exactly lend themselves to reproduction or even survival necessarily. Prior to Krakoa, most mutants kind of sucked at reproducing on their own. Hell most of the XMen come from two normal humans lines.
A somewhat more rational fear is those surrounding specifically Omega levels. Omegas are by definition some of the most powerful beings walking the Earth. Each one of them could potentially destroy the planet or at the very least cause insane levels of damage.
>Neanderthals were to Sapiens.
Heck they aren't even that, 2 neanderthals can't have a sapien baby but mutants and humans can. The difference between mutants and non-mutants is like the difference between red heads and everyone else if we are being honest. That's how similar these 2 are especially when in the marvel universe any stimulus to most humans on earth will give them superpowers lol, get hit with a nuke superpowers, get bitten by a radioactive spider superpowers lol
Mutant can blow, torches, brun, freeze and mind wipe people if they're aren't heroes this doesn't count the villain and those that just automatically start having bizarre mutant period the first time their power jumps tart endangering nearby people no wonder people hate mutant not just because of replacing them but the potential of killing those they love.
Yes but those dangers also exist from non mutants. If you want to go by body count, Dr. Doom, a normal human, has killed more people than mutants have collectively.
I mean people don’t like doom. He is definitely a villainous character. And like a fascist.
I wouldn’t defend mutants by invoking someone who is a villain.
Yet, heroes keep helping Doom retake his country whenever he loses it.
Also, the nature of the universe means that it is entirely possible someone could whip up an invention that makes them as dangerous as any mutant in their garage with a box of scraps.
I just have to wonder if at any point Xavier had to explain to Magnus that his current plan would actually kill a much larger percentage of the mutant population than human.
"Magnus, again, and hopefully for the last time, most mutants cannot survive a thermonuclear detonation. or radioactive fallout. Or a nuclear winter."
No because imagine just being able to change hair color on demand or something and now you are getting kicked out of your home and a giant robot is chasing you.
Ngl it would be funny in a way if the sentinels would say every mutants level. Like you just see magneto get destroyed and then it turns to you and says “epsilon level mutant detect”. I’d just let it kill me at that point, I’m already dead
Well it's great that most are harmless, but every time someone suggests a practical system so that dangerous 4% can be identified and differentiated from harmless mutant population so people know exactly who is safe to be around and who is a risk, the x men throw a tantrum.
So the humans still have no choice but treat all of them as a protentional threat regardless of if they're a Joe I-Just-Have-Gills type mutant, a Molly I-Accidently-Cause-Nuclear-Explosions-by-Sneezing type mutant, or a Freddie I-will-mind-control-you-to-kill-your-own-children-because-I-think-it's-funny type mutant because there's no way to tell until people start dying or cars start exploding.
Exactly.
I wish Krakoa had gone on for long enough for the X-men to realise that, even in an entirely mutant society, some level of "Power Registration" is necessary. You simply can't run a nation/country/etc... if you don't know which citizens are capable of mind-controlling elected officials, which citizens are capable of teleporting into bank vaults, etc...
The X-men talk a big game about how bad the status quo is, but they don't actually propose a workable alternative. It's not enough to spend years saying "don't do that!", eventually you have to start saying "do this instead!".
TBH I'd be satisfied with a comic run that focused on answering even a simple question, like "Do people have a right to know when they're talking to a telepath, or are thoughts just no longer considered private in this society?".
Look, I'm no mutant hater. People should be free to be themselves.
I just wish they'd stop trying to corrupt our children into making them think it's okay to be a freak. I can't go outside without some blue skinned mutie showing off where children can see.
What's their agenda? Who do they serve?
I'm actually 100% okay with people who can blow up buildings with their minds, or who got blue skin, or whatever. I just don't like them because one time Jubilee stole my bike.
Wasn't he back in it in the late 00s and the 10s before he died? He got his legs back when he got a clone body, then got paralyzed again, then Xorn fixed it, then Xorn unfixed it. But I forget if it got fixed again before he died, or if he didn't get to walk again until he was revived in Fantomex's body
Yeah tbh nobody should have super powers. I think most well adjusted people recognize we don't need billionaires in our society so why should we have individuals with even more personal power? The problem is that while you can take away iron man's suits or cure the hulk with mutants it's much more complicated because genocide is ofc still wrong. I think Co existence with the average mutant who can turn his nose inside out or something silly is very possible but absolutely no one should be able to warp reality on a whim, and God help us if those powers are in the hands of someone mentally unstable (wanda). So while most average boring mutants would fit the LGBT or poc allegories I think the fact we are always focusing on the walking wmd's of the mutant world and trying to compare them to people that look or love differently is very problematic
What sucks is that the ways that can help those mutants with negative powers are usually made by evil people or abused and there are people like Storm who say that there is nothing wrong with them and that they should be proud of being a mutant. Like the kid who has a kill radius permanently active should be deposited and would be happy about it.
Forreal! If you wanna have a nuanced story why don't you have some human characters that want to cure the x gene without genocide or turning into a killer robot (cough Moira)
The whole idea that the X-men spew that mutants are a different species entirely is completely stupid and I wish someone would call them out on that.
So a mutated gene makes you a different species? Does that mean that ppl born with albinism or achondroplasia are a different species?
>So a mutated gene makes you a different species? Does that mean that ppl born with albinism or achondroplasia are a different species.
Imagine Nimrod knocking on your door to kindly warn that you are now a target due to your physical condition
>The whole idea that the X-men spew that mutants are a different species entirely is completely stupid and I wish someone would call them out on that.
A guy posted a link on comments for a news website and looks sometime ago they did that to the X-men,made a judgment about the humanity of the characters
Not a lot of them but part of the Avengers destroyed either the universe or a dimension or more than one when they get a new Hyper Powerfull form from some cosmic entity like Hulk or Thor,they can do that by ther own even more with ther conections
I mean, that is the point. The issue starts when people go 'Mutants are not humans! They are better! Superior! '...no, they are humans with powers, just from birth. They have all the flaws and strengths humans do. Because they are humans too...
I mean, I feel like I'm definitely going to be called out by someone here, but in the Marvel Universe Celestials made humans.
Then one of the celestials called "something" the Prober (giggity, imagine being created by the prober) took a portion of those humans, and planted a thingy in the called X-Gene.
It was written in one of the Eternals books (I think it was either OG Kirby one or Neil Gaiman one).
Anyway, OP, you are correct tho lol. 95 Percent of those poor fucks have powers like "I can heat the water a little bit" lol
>I mean, I feel like I'm definitely going to be called out by someone here, but in the Marvel Universe Celestials made humans.
>Then one of the celestials called "something" the Prober (giggity, imagine being created by the prober) took a portion of those humans, and planted a thingy in the called X-Gene.
I think everyone has a mutant gene but they are in sleep state
Did they put it inside all people???
I always read it as "They took some and decided to put the Gene in them, to see if they will evolve differently" type of a deal.
As far i know everyone has it but need a have trauma to Activate, some mutants originated from basic human couples and thats also how Deadpool unlocked his powers (I know this go more for the side of the movie but i think they mentioned that on comics few times to defend themselfs)
Holy shit, I have really been away for so long Logan almost destroyed the Universe twice? Please tell me one time he did for love and the other for beer.
The worst thing about the Humans vs Mutants thing is the existence of Omega-Level Mutants meaning Mutants that are often more powerful than a regular Mutant.
Their existence justifies the Humans' hatred of Mutants in fact, in some cases, in spite of the fact that the Omega-Level Mutant isn't hostile at all, the X-Men would still come in, and kill them because their mere existence might be harmful to the whole Mutant's Rights thing that the X-Men had been preaching for years. It's like if one of the people who were aligned and allied themselves with MLK killed someone because said person is Blacker than Black and if it scares white people, then it would be harmful to the Civil Rights Movement.
I honestly believe that the X-Men story was better off without the existence of Omega-Level Mutants. Like, why couldn't they just stick to one thing and that one thing only? Oh, right, they need big superhero fights (that are the equivalents of the fights Superman always has in terms of sheer scale and destruction) because they want more money!
This one i agree so much. The hate is starting to make sense when you showed Mutant with the power to control reality, explode like a fucking Tsar Bomba and whatnot
Omega level mutants are not threatening because they are mutants, any individual human, alien or entity who had access to nuclear destruction level powers would be a reason to fear and that fear would be rational. The only difference between a random guy with a nuclear bomb acting individually and a mutant with the power of mass destruction is that the mutant was born with the power, but the fear they cause would justifiably be similar, let’s not say they are discriminated against for being a mutant, that’s just silly.
That's what I was saying. In fact, that's essentially why I'm against the existence of Omega-Level Mutants in the first place! Mutants, in and of themselves should be enough to build a story around but like I said, Marvel wants their big superhero fights because the fans want it and they want money so it's only logical to the X-Men writers.
>
99% of the mutants we actually see can do a lot more than destroy a car, so I feel like this has never been a good argument for us to use.
Majority of mutants we see are just people with some physical change or some random ability that doens't help in anything, some of them are usefull once in a while but they aren't a real threat like the main ones
They aren't human when they have superpower just like how spiderman and hulk is called human mutate not a normal human and different mutation that altered their body or have additional organ that help them have superpowers do you still they're humans. In Krakoa they segregate themselves from humanity and even refuse to be called a human.
Even if they like or not they still humans,have human needs, have human DNA,Human brain,Human feelings and Most of them were born from human couples
Is not just something you throw away like it was a candy wrapper, it's a part of you that will always be with you from your birth until your death
A different gene on your blood doens't take away what makes you who and what you are
The fear of mutants isn't because they have powers. It's because that they're the next evolutionary step. "Homosuperior". So they make humanity feel obsolete. To quote from marvels: "they're here to kick the dirt onto our graves". It's not because of the powers. It's because of the fear that they aren't the true human race anymore. It's not justified, but it's understandble.
I always feel bad for the mutants who got screwed over and didn’t have a cool, practical mutant power. “So what’s your power?” “Eh I can conjure up hairballs on command “
I know people already did that conversation multiple times about mutants accepting themselves and ther powers but some cases that just don't work, Long neck and Ugly Jon are examples,i have see a girl that her power is having 3 mouths in her neck and a guy that his just blue
I wanna hear about mutants that have practical powers but they're kind of hard to separate from just normal every day stuff. Like somebody whose power is to know when someone touches the thermostat. Another person whose power just let's them make good bread but not great bread no matter what. Another whose power is do something that everyone else can do by phone except use the internet or make calls or text. Nothing but nifty powers, but most definitely not cool ones.
Jojo stands
Always felt those were terrible in the Marvel Universe setting. Sounds like something to be done in My Hero Academia setting tho. Not that every mutant needs to be Omega level. However, to use your example, "My power is only to know when someone touches the thermostat" is just so meh :p However a more useful but not earth shattering power to go for that type of deal and working good in the setting, of course imo, is Cypher.
They already do it. The guy who skin is blue is an example. Warren's lawyer's mutant power is a photographic memory. Besides, who says they can't be effective teammates despite lame powers? Like maybe the bread guy was a secret agent the whole time. Lots of powerless people do ok for themselves in the Marvel universe.
A) the boringness is the appeal. It’s not supposed to be epic, it’s supposed to be meh. B) Marvel kinda already has a shit ton of mutants and the like with powers that are uninteresting. They just don’t get spotlight all that much for obvious reasons.
I think Extraordinary does this really well. The main character is bummed because she doesn't have any powers but so many of the people around her have just terrible powers no one would want. Like the guy who automatically censors things around him or the woman whose only power is being stuck in a tweenager's body. Even the useful ones have major drawbacks like the guy who can walk through walls but can only do it when naked (and he's painfully shy) her sister loses her spot in a prestigious music conservatory because she can no longer play without her super strength breaking the instrument. A major character can turn into a cat but runs the risk of not being able to turn back because the cat doesn't know how. Etc. Etc.
Why are you atacking MY POWERS? HAIRY TRACHEA GO!
my x-sona is a useless psychic - she can alter the future by subtly influencing human minds within about 10km... only problem is she has *absolutely no control beyond triggering the effect and her desired outcome*. stakes tend to scale, so it's not like it'll trigger a car accident to delay the bus a few minutes but things could get dicey *fast* in a real fight. the idea of someone with *insane* super powers but no utility has always been really funny to me.
Soft Serve!!!
You and I seem to have irreconcilable definitions of "cool, practical"
I feel bad for the kid wolverine had to eliminate in the ultimate universe so mutants don't have it easy.
That was awful, what makes it extra awful is in recent years they have another mutant with similar powers and it's solved by a simple containment suit.
Yeah the damage was done though he killed his entire town the emotional damage would have taken it toll. Like the kid with a death touch or rogue a containment suit deprives them of physical touch humans need that.
I am a touch adverse autistic and I wanted to be Rogue so bad as a child but I get what you're saying that much isolation would be hard on most people.
Same I'm autistic too and yeah sometimes the simplest solution are often the most saddest of choices.
So cool, you are the third autistic person I've met in this sub this week! PS I like your username
Oh that well glad to meet you.
Same 😄
To me, my Aspies!
Even some well known mutants have powers that are only useful in combat situations. Like what does Cyclops do with his powers once the war is won and mutants are accepted?
Yeah but his powers are cool
No argument from me on that.
They're like, "In 100 years, humans will be replaced by mutants!" And I'm like, "In 100 years, everyone alive will have been replaced by future people, no matter what. The future people are the real enemy."
In just 20 years, your 20 year older future self is going to take everything your 19 year old future self had. Your 19 year old future self will have nothing, if we don't stop your 20 year old future self, right now. And I'm like, "Man. This is some heavy shit. We better build super big robots."
"In a hundred years, white people will be the minority!" Yeah but even if I was racist and gave a shit I'd be dead by then anyway.
Yeah, but if you're racist, you feel like you own the future, or that a future is something THEY are stealing from you, even though the future by definition belongs to people who don't yet exist.
Genuinely, I think one of the ways people cope with death is by identifying strongly with their nation or culture, which they believe will carry their memory forward forever. So when white people hear about the end of white people, it's like they're staring down the barrel of a gun.
Definitely getting off topic for X-men but that's an interesting thought. 'Whiteness' according to white supremacist ideology always seems to in contention with the cultures of the people it claims to be prioritising. It's always surprising how little room there is for folk or regional culture in white hegemony and what is taken is flattened and smushed to fit the sensibilities of that dominant power. Maybe there's a feeling that whiteness and genetics are the only things left to pass down.
I mean, yeah? Idk, maybe this is an American vs. European mentality, but I don't get how "I don't want my people to disappear be a minority in their land" is racist.
Because it assumes that your genetics are what matter most. The colour of your skin or such. It ultimately doesn’t truly matter what colour people live on your land. And culturally, your people are going to go extinct someday. That’s how it goes, culture evolves far faster than biology, cultures get wiped out or evolve into something else entirely. Your people WILL die out and be replaced, there’s nothing you can do to prevent that. The only difference is whether your replacements are descended from you and you alone, or people from all over.
If they're descended from you, then it's not replacement, it's continuation. And no, culture evolving is not the same as going extinct. Our language, customs, music etc. May have changed over time, but it's still recognizable in its previous forms.
now you've got me imagining if the tensions within orchis post-inferno were handled well instead of being dumped almost off-screen so we can get to the fistfights
I keep waiting for someone to point out that the villains are people who want to own the future, and the heroes are the ones who want to protect people who currently actually exist. I mean, that distinction SEEMS to sort of run through the entire narrative, but they don't seem to realize it's actually a theme. And it's a really good theme! Hammer home that these reckless, amoral villains with their ends justifying their means are just trying to own the future by killing the present. Douglas Adams had a good bit on that.
Generally speaking writers don't want to deal with the last writer's leavings except in passing. This isn't new and it won't be because these new writers are being lazy. Hickman just used an indeterminate time skip to ignore everything that came before and magic everyone into the positions he wanted them in. This is how it goes. TLDR; they'll probably touch on it here or there while mostly doing their own thing.
Why do you think some people want to trash the planet to hell. Stop the future people from inheriting the earth.
Fucking Cable
Actually it’s even simpler than that. If mutants and humans can produce offspring naturally, and those offspring are also fertile (at a broad scale, individual circumstances may vary) they are definitionally the same species.
The fact that two nonmutants can have a mutant child or visa versa is the biggest tell to me. Coyotes and wolves can have fertile offspring (and there is some ambiguity about the divide between the species), but two coyotes aren’t going to produce a wolf or visa versa
Graydon Creed and Feilong can confirm.
yup, this is one I bring up whenever people go too far down the humans vs mutants line of reasoning. The fact that they can interbreed is huge, and should be enough frankly, but the fact that it can go either way at any time and with any combination of parents makes even considering them two different things ludicrous.
They can interbreed with aliens, this proves nothing
Yes, which is why the fact that it can go backwards is so vital. Two human parents can produce a mutant, and two mutant parents can produce a human. Two human parents do not produce a skrull, and two skrull parents ABSOLUTELY do not produce a human.
It’s more akin to a gene being active/inactive than a new species emerging.
It’s because they are part of the same evolutionary three. That’s doesn’t make them human, humans aren’t born with superpowers
Yeah, I'm not sure you understand how evolution works. If humans are descended from apes, we don't just periodically produce ape babies, and ape babies don't just periodically produce humans. It's not a die that gets rolled when you procreate. What DOES happen is that genes can be switched on or off based on the vagaries of genetics. This does not make someone a different species, it just makes them red-haired or green-eyed or whatever. Which, given that the canon explanation for mutant superpowers is a gene is EXACTLY what mutants are supposed to be. Mutants are humans. It's as simple as that. Hell, as someone else pointed out the sentinels even acknowledge this in the show. On top of that, trying to argue they're not is just idiotic becuase it destroys the message. If mutants are ACTUALLY a separate species that represents a clear and present danger to not only human safety, but the well-being of the planet and arguably the universe, then every single anti-mutant bigot in the history of the series HAS A POINT, and they're not a stand-in for real minorities at all because real minorities are absolutely just people. The fact that this idea that they're not human actually has supporters among the fandom is just baffling.
Did you watch the series with your eyes closed the entire argument around bastion was that Mutants ARE the next step in evolution, and thus will make humanity permanently extinct. I’m not gonna argue what was confirmed yet again. Have fun being in denial
Yes, because the psychotic bigot's argument is definitely clear and accurate. Do you get your stance on African Americans from the KKK?
It’s not about his opinion are you slow?💀 I heavily disagreed with his arguments and don’t sympathize with him at all. But he has knowledge of the future and knows that mutants are there to replace humanity as the next evolutionary step. This was also confirmed in the comics by Beast that in 20 years mutant population would already surpass the human one, and again in powers of X with the librarian confirmed that when it comes to natural evolution they are the next step. This is like old news that everyone who actually reads the X-men know about, again keep being in denial. You against the writers
The moral of the story is that the specism in X-Men is wildly inaccurate.
Which is why I loved one of Bastions lines in the 97 episode. Paraphrasing. What are the taxi drivers going to do if Nightcrawler decides to start working in NYC? Makes the whole anti mutant thing a little less dumb.
In fairness the show being placed in the 90s means cab drivers don’t know the real threat: Predatory companies like Uber and Lyft
What does it feel like to be left behind by the future?
I’m 25 years old and don’t make enough to afford half the average rent in my area working full time. I’m left behind by the present
sad laugh.
It’s still dumb because the general hatred is not based on job displacement. It’s based on them being the other.
No it doesn’t, it’s equally as dumb if you think about it
Actually it kind of even stupid, when you consider Dr.strange and the The Sling Rings.
Or shutting off a gene pretty much makes them a normal human(physical mutations aside and even that's iffy). Then again Human begins in sci fi are like the easiest beings to breed with though.
Also consider that in Marvel the human population has been gene-edited by like every advanced civilisation at some point. All independently of each other.
haha, it's true.
Think they left notes to each other and that's how we got junk DNA? Like, Kree leaving Kilroy was here in our genes leads to leukemia.
Even machines made to kill mutants realized this in 4 minutes of ther existence
X-men: *refers to the mutants as a "new species"* me, biologist: ....... partner, tired: *"don't"*
I’m not even a biologist, or really that into science at all. But my brain is a mess of sourceless factoids and data so I recalled something about what defines a species having to do with fertility. I did look it up for a quick check before posting but I’m sure things are more nuanced than I phrased it.
it's... *gestures vaguely* generally yes. a species is defined as a reproductivly isolated population - whether it be geographical, physical or behavioral... but that can change if the species in question have similar physiology. don't even get me *started* on plants, christ knows what genetic shenanigans they're getting up to.
I did figure plants got all kinds of fucked up, but then most animals can’t have say, a leg cut off and another one from a different but similar ish animal spliced on so comfortably.
plants are out here casually living a mammal's existential grimdark nightmare 24/7
One of my professors would remark that biologists just throw shit at the wall, hoping it'll stick. Advancements in DNA really changed a lot; from what I've read. Like, how many slight mutations does this population of this bird that nests in bridges need to be considered a different species?
One thing my stupid ass brain can't understand is how a chihuahua and a saint bernard are considered the same species.
Master Mold: That is not logical. Mutants ARE human. Therefore, humans must be protected from themselves.
It’s a weird double edged sword when you realize the reason you should be scared of mutants is that they *are* human.
They aren’t human
Sure they are.
Hm they aren’t? They are the next evolutionary step. An Neanderthal isn’t human either
If they can interbreed with humans and come from humans, and live and think like humans, they are humans. I know the series often states mutants are this new species like you say, but the actual presentation is at odds with that, as well as evolution in general not working like that. At the end of the day they are humans who got born with weird attributes.
So they aren’t humans, humans aren’t born with “weird attributes” lmao. But whatever your opinion is I would advise to never again use the “interbreed” and “think” argument because everyone knows that that’s the case for literal aliens too yet everyone seems to forget in these convos
In the case here, the story is engaging in a big suspension of disbelief. No, aliens under no circumstances should be able to have kids with humans and would almost certainly not be human shaped. Humans would have more genetically in common with an ear of corn than any alien. That said, I will walk back some of my point as people who cannot breed because of genetic conditions in our world are certainly not seen as non human. That’s kind of my point. Mutant humans do technically exist in our world. They just have small variances in genetics. We would not say they are not human.
No, you misunderstood.
The fears surrounding mutants replacing humans are in my opinion irrational. The idea stems from the basic belief that evolution is one race supplants another because they are better able to survive and breed. For one mutants arent really a new species anyway. They are more akin to evolutionary contemporaries like the Neanderthals were to Sapiens. But the thing is the society we live in today no longer selects quite as strongly as pre-Agricultural/Industrial world would anyway so its unlikely mutants can supplant humans due to the change in selection pressures short of one race actively wiping out the other. And I mean most mutant powers dont exactly lend themselves to reproduction or even survival necessarily. Prior to Krakoa, most mutants kind of sucked at reproducing on their own. Hell most of the XMen come from two normal humans lines. A somewhat more rational fear is those surrounding specifically Omega levels. Omegas are by definition some of the most powerful beings walking the Earth. Each one of them could potentially destroy the planet or at the very least cause insane levels of damage.
>Neanderthals were to Sapiens. Heck they aren't even that, 2 neanderthals can't have a sapien baby but mutants and humans can. The difference between mutants and non-mutants is like the difference between red heads and everyone else if we are being honest. That's how similar these 2 are especially when in the marvel universe any stimulus to most humans on earth will give them superpowers lol, get hit with a nuke superpowers, get bitten by a radioactive spider superpowers lol
The first human was born from 2 Neanderthals in the verse so no
Mutant can blow, torches, brun, freeze and mind wipe people if they're aren't heroes this doesn't count the villain and those that just automatically start having bizarre mutant period the first time their power jumps tart endangering nearby people no wonder people hate mutant not just because of replacing them but the potential of killing those they love.
Yes but those dangers also exist from non mutants. If you want to go by body count, Dr. Doom, a normal human, has killed more people than mutants have collectively.
I mean people don’t like doom. He is definitely a villainous character. And like a fascist. I wouldn’t defend mutants by invoking someone who is a villain.
Yet, heroes keep helping Doom retake his country whenever he loses it. Also, the nature of the universe means that it is entirely possible someone could whip up an invention that makes them as dangerous as any mutant in their garage with a box of scraps.
Im willing to bet there are way more examples of stories where various heroes are anti doom than supporting doom.
Fair enough but my point about dangerous super science still stands.
I just have to wonder if at any point Xavier had to explain to Magnus that his current plan would actually kill a much larger percentage of the mutant population than human. "Magnus, again, and hopefully for the last time, most mutants cannot survive a thermonuclear detonation. or radioactive fallout. Or a nuclear winter."
"But Charles........it be baller though"
I wonder if Magneto is a Darwinist?
No because imagine just being able to change hair color on demand or something and now you are getting kicked out of your home and a giant robot is chasing you. Ngl it would be funny in a way if the sentinels would say every mutants level. Like you just see magneto get destroyed and then it turns to you and says “epsilon level mutant detect”. I’d just let it kill me at that point, I’m already dead
It's just a lot of creationists that don't understand how evolution actually works.
Well it's great that most are harmless, but every time someone suggests a practical system so that dangerous 4% can be identified and differentiated from harmless mutant population so people know exactly who is safe to be around and who is a risk, the x men throw a tantrum. So the humans still have no choice but treat all of them as a protentional threat regardless of if they're a Joe I-Just-Have-Gills type mutant, a Molly I-Accidently-Cause-Nuclear-Explosions-by-Sneezing type mutant, or a Freddie I-will-mind-control-you-to-kill-your-own-children-because-I-think-it's-funny type mutant because there's no way to tell until people start dying or cars start exploding.
Exactly. I wish Krakoa had gone on for long enough for the X-men to realise that, even in an entirely mutant society, some level of "Power Registration" is necessary. You simply can't run a nation/country/etc... if you don't know which citizens are capable of mind-controlling elected officials, which citizens are capable of teleporting into bank vaults, etc... The X-men talk a big game about how bad the status quo is, but they don't actually propose a workable alternative. It's not enough to spend years saying "don't do that!", eventually you have to start saying "do this instead!". TBH I'd be satisfied with a comic run that focused on answering even a simple question, like "Do people have a right to know when they're talking to a telepath, or are thoughts just no longer considered private in this society?".
https://www.polygon.com/comics/2019/9/12/20862474/x-men-series-toys-human-legal-issue-marvel-comics Never forget
TIL! The law is weird.
Boomhauer: Dangoldmutantscausenothingbutpropertdamage.Humansgottarebuildandfixstuffwhilemutantscan'tevenlikechipinalittle. Dangnorespectman.
boomhauer supremacy
I think this is unfair as most mutants are just Jamie Madrox.
Look, I'm no mutant hater. People should be free to be themselves. I just wish they'd stop trying to corrupt our children into making them think it's okay to be a freak. I can't go outside without some blue skinned mutie showing off where children can see. What's their agenda? Who do they serve?
I'm actually 100% okay with people who can blow up buildings with their minds, or who got blue skin, or whatever. I just don't like them because one time Jubilee stole my bike.
> What's their agenda? Who do they serve? A bald guy on a Wheel Chair i think
Xavier hasn't been in a wheelchair for years.
Wasn't he back in it in the late 00s and the 10s before he died? He got his legs back when he got a clone body, then got paralyzed again, then Xorn fixed it, then Xorn unfixed it. But I forget if it got fixed again before he died, or if he didn't get to walk again until he was revived in Fantomex's body
Xavier regained the use of his legs after House of M and he was still walking when he was killed in battle by Cyclops.
"Phoenix corrupted" cyclops. Just to remind you good sir
True. I did say killed in battle though. Different than murder.
With people like Magneto causing massive damage and a ton of deaths it makes sense why a ton of people are terrified.
Yeah tbh nobody should have super powers. I think most well adjusted people recognize we don't need billionaires in our society so why should we have individuals with even more personal power? The problem is that while you can take away iron man's suits or cure the hulk with mutants it's much more complicated because genocide is ofc still wrong. I think Co existence with the average mutant who can turn his nose inside out or something silly is very possible but absolutely no one should be able to warp reality on a whim, and God help us if those powers are in the hands of someone mentally unstable (wanda). So while most average boring mutants would fit the LGBT or poc allegories I think the fact we are always focusing on the walking wmd's of the mutant world and trying to compare them to people that look or love differently is very problematic
What sucks is that the ways that can help those mutants with negative powers are usually made by evil people or abused and there are people like Storm who say that there is nothing wrong with them and that they should be proud of being a mutant. Like the kid who has a kill radius permanently active should be deposited and would be happy about it.
Forreal! If you wanna have a nuanced story why don't you have some human characters that want to cure the x gene without genocide or turning into a killer robot (cough Moira)
X3 barely touches upon that.
Mutants are threat to the propane business I tell you what
The whole idea that the X-men spew that mutants are a different species entirely is completely stupid and I wish someone would call them out on that. So a mutated gene makes you a different species? Does that mean that ppl born with albinism or achondroplasia are a different species?
>So a mutated gene makes you a different species? Does that mean that ppl born with albinism or achondroplasia are a different species. Imagine Nimrod knocking on your door to kindly warn that you are now a target due to your physical condition >The whole idea that the X-men spew that mutants are a different species entirely is completely stupid and I wish someone would call them out on that. A guy posted a link on comments for a news website and looks sometime ago they did that to the X-men,made a judgment about the humanity of the characters
Nimrod the Albino Hunter!
It’s something that has been wrapped up in the core of the franchise for a long time now unfortunately and it is difficult to undo at this point.
Has Nightcrawler ever done that?
Which hero’s destroyed the universe
Illuminati destroy alternate Earth once i think
Not a lot of them but part of the Avengers destroyed either the universe or a dimension or more than one when they get a new Hyper Powerfull form from some cosmic entity like Hulk or Thor,they can do that by ther own even more with ther conections
I mean, that is the point. The issue starts when people go 'Mutants are not humans! They are better! Superior! '...no, they are humans with powers, just from birth. They have all the flaws and strengths humans do. Because they are humans too...
I mean, I feel like I'm definitely going to be called out by someone here, but in the Marvel Universe Celestials made humans. Then one of the celestials called "something" the Prober (giggity, imagine being created by the prober) took a portion of those humans, and planted a thingy in the called X-Gene. It was written in one of the Eternals books (I think it was either OG Kirby one or Neil Gaiman one). Anyway, OP, you are correct tho lol. 95 Percent of those poor fucks have powers like "I can heat the water a little bit" lol
>I mean, I feel like I'm definitely going to be called out by someone here, but in the Marvel Universe Celestials made humans. >Then one of the celestials called "something" the Prober (giggity, imagine being created by the prober) took a portion of those humans, and planted a thingy in the called X-Gene. I think everyone has a mutant gene but they are in sleep state
Did they put it inside all people??? I always read it as "They took some and decided to put the Gene in them, to see if they will evolve differently" type of a deal.
As far i know everyone has it but need a have trauma to Activate, some mutants originated from basic human couples and thats also how Deadpool unlocked his powers (I know this go more for the side of the movie but i think they mentioned that on comics few times to defend themselfs)
Holy shit, I have really been away for so long Logan almost destroyed the Universe twice? Please tell me one time he did for love and the other for beer.
>Please tell me one time he did for love and the other for beer. ......Yes?
The worst thing about the Humans vs Mutants thing is the existence of Omega-Level Mutants meaning Mutants that are often more powerful than a regular Mutant. Their existence justifies the Humans' hatred of Mutants in fact, in some cases, in spite of the fact that the Omega-Level Mutant isn't hostile at all, the X-Men would still come in, and kill them because their mere existence might be harmful to the whole Mutant's Rights thing that the X-Men had been preaching for years. It's like if one of the people who were aligned and allied themselves with MLK killed someone because said person is Blacker than Black and if it scares white people, then it would be harmful to the Civil Rights Movement. I honestly believe that the X-Men story was better off without the existence of Omega-Level Mutants. Like, why couldn't they just stick to one thing and that one thing only? Oh, right, they need big superhero fights (that are the equivalents of the fights Superman always has in terms of sheer scale and destruction) because they want more money!
This one i agree so much. The hate is starting to make sense when you showed Mutant with the power to control reality, explode like a fucking Tsar Bomba and whatnot
Omega level mutants are not threatening because they are mutants, any individual human, alien or entity who had access to nuclear destruction level powers would be a reason to fear and that fear would be rational. The only difference between a random guy with a nuclear bomb acting individually and a mutant with the power of mass destruction is that the mutant was born with the power, but the fear they cause would justifiably be similar, let’s not say they are discriminated against for being a mutant, that’s just silly.
That's what I was saying. In fact, that's essentially why I'm against the existence of Omega-Level Mutants in the first place! Mutants, in and of themselves should be enough to build a story around but like I said, Marvel wants their big superhero fights because the fans want it and they want money so it's only logical to the X-Men writers.
eh. 99% of the mutants we actually see can do a lot more than destroy a car, so I feel like this has never been a good argument for us to use.
> 99% of the mutants we actually see can do a lot more than destroy a car, so I feel like this has never been a good argument for us to use. Majority of mutants we see are just people with some physical change or some random ability that doens't help in anything, some of them are usefull once in a while but they aren't a real threat like the main ones
Coughing Baby vs. Nuke
They aren't human when they have superpower just like how spiderman and hulk is called human mutate not a normal human and different mutation that altered their body or have additional organ that help them have superpowers do you still they're humans. In Krakoa they segregate themselves from humanity and even refuse to be called a human.
Even if they like or not they still humans,have human needs, have human DNA,Human brain,Human feelings and Most of them were born from human couples Is not just something you throw away like it was a candy wrapper, it's a part of you that will always be with you from your birth until your death A different gene on your blood doens't take away what makes you who and what you are
Tell that to muties in Krakoa, Mr Sinister, Apocalypse, Magneto and Xmen Krakoa lol.
Tell that to muties in Krakoa, Mr Sinister, Apocalypse, Magneto and Xmen Krakoa lol. But,Krakoa island is dead
But not rebooting so the continuity is still there if the writer care.
Which episode of KOTH was this from?
The fear of mutants isn't because they have powers. It's because that they're the next evolutionary step. "Homosuperior". So they make humanity feel obsolete. To quote from marvels: "they're here to kick the dirt onto our graves". It's not because of the powers. It's because of the fear that they aren't the true human race anymore. It's not justified, but it's understandble.
Thats In X-97 Theres Always a different explanation
Remember kids marvel doesn't consider mutants human, had to get that non human action figures tax break
Nobody actually thinks this. Don't try to make points against fictional people.