I read this for the first time literally yesterday and I have to get this off my chest- WHY was there a PHOTOGRAPH of Black Bolt killing Cyclops if he was just a telepathic illusion/projection. Did she also upload a photoshopped image of Cyclops dying to the records of the incident? The whole event just sucked. The second half of it was just one giant "this all could have been avoided with one conversation" incident. /exhale
Also, even though it wasn't really Scott, back when everyone still thought it was Scott, absolutely no one called out Black Bolt for murdering him in cold blood. Every single member of the X-Men was like 'welp, had to be done, let's be best friends with the Inhumans now.' I know he had become a villain in many of their eyes (which is a whole other betrayal of those characters that is too long to bitch about here), but the man was just trying to save his people from a literal plague cloud, a literal plague cloud that the Inhumans were actively fighting to keep around despite the rising mutant death toll. And their king just fucking executes him for it. And everyone acts like it was the right thing to do. Insanity.
#Cyclopswasright
And just killing off Madrox offscreen for the sake of shock value in the first issue of death of x after Peter David wrote him and Lyra a happy ending after taking good character the characters for a decade+. Seemed like a spit in his face and to fans of x-factor.
I mean, (and I'm not defending the story here, it's awful) given that telepathy involves screwing with the recipient's brain rather than projecting an illusion into 3d space (we just see it as that) presumably she would be projecting his smell yes? Marvel is awful at understanding telepathy and what it should be able to do.
When I was reminded the show existed earlier this year I legit thought "wait when did they make a movie? Are they making one?"then realized the tv show existed
Black Bolt is my favorite character, and I would have been more upset about Multiverse of Madness but everyone's fan favorite fan cast got killed right afterwards which softened the blow.
Black Bolt’s a character I get excited for but literally the rest of the Inhumans could disappear forever and I’d be good. As their king though, you can’t ever totally separate him from them without his entire arc being to reunite with them. A cosmic version as someone’s herald would be interesting, but still his motivation would be return to the Inhumans.
For my part I'm surprised that Black BOlt got away with everything after nearly gassing mutantkind to death, well most of his people got killed by Vox and the Secret empire so that's some sort of cosmic karma for him, too bad Emma didn't finished him and medusa off, it'd be one of her best acts in my opinion.
I think almost everybody already considers it non-canon. Nobody talks about it. Even subsequent writers ignore it. It's just that bad across the board. There's no real redeeming quality to it.
I will say either Wanda and Pietro no longer being magnetos children and or mutants.
Or no more mutants from here. Not even because genocide is such an exhausting and sad story beat. But for a character who spent decades as a hero and avenger who has now spent almost decades shackled to this tragedy is exhausting and unfair.
I also don’t think it’s lead to anything that interesting on her behalf. At least it’s seemingly at an end now that she is the redeemer but still. I
I feel though at least pym largely as disappeared in universe.
But with Wanda there was a time where she could barely intersect with some characters without it being brought up.
Even when she wasn’t on screen. I adore the xmen I just wanna preface this.
But I did not love the whole pretender but.
Peter Milligan's whole X-Men arc: People say Austen's run was bad, but at least that had a great Juggernaut. There were no redeeming factors in Milligan's run. I have no idea what he was smoking, but this is, imo, the worst X-Men run of all time. It looks even worse when you consider that Carey succeeded him, which.....good lord. That's like Beethoven performing a concert right after a baboon screeched into a mic.
Rahne dating Elixir: I mean.....what the actual fuck.
NYX: Edgy edgelords decided to be as edgy as possible and decided that the 2000s wasn't edgy enough, so they broke the edge-o-meter.
Not *just* a minor, she was an adult teacher and he was a student. It's not only the age, but the power imbalance. It was so much worse than Angel x Husk, yet that one seems to get criticized much more.
Said minor was also under the guidance and legal care of one of her closest friends. Who has shown motherly care over said children. Rahne basically messed around with her best friend's son.
I mean, that's kind of a reflection of real life. A male teacher having sex with a student is correctly called rape, while a female teacher would be reported as "having sex" with student.
Still, Warren met her when she was still a minor. Age differences are less creepy when the older person didn't know the younger person while they were still underage.
To be fair elixir didn't fucked Rahne, they just kissed, and he's the one hitting on her most of the time. Also Emma was worried about Elixir after the whole affair with Rahne, but it seems he's doing fine, he also tried to hit on Magma and Laurie afterwards. . . so I think he's the problem, and honestly the age difference between him and Rahne was just 3 years.
The problem is that the sliding scale timeline makes it unclear just how old Rahne was. It's clear in the OG New Mutants that she's the youngest possibly as young as 12. While the others are around 14-16. So if she's 2-3 years younger than everyone else it really kind of depends on how old they're all supposed to be. A lot of the OG New Mutants in that time period were depicted as being right around 20 years old, which if Rahne is 2 to 3 years younger then she is definitely not an adult as we know her--possibly as young as 17. If the New Mutants were 14 on average and are now "adults"--call it 25--that means the then 25 year old OG X-Men must be 35 which is a good 7 years older than editorial wants them to be. However, if the New Mutants have only aged about 3-5 years that puts the O5 right in the 28-29 year age bracket editorial wants them. The reason the O5's age matters is because they're contemporaries of Spidey.
EDIT: She was "older," but that wasn't why she was a teacher. Her dramatically greater experience as an X-person is why she was a "teacher." It's worth noting she was only a field teacher, and even then it basically broke down because she was clearly too young/immature for the job.
Not to mention it started off with her blowing off his attempts at flirting with her, but when he met up with her at Harry's Hideaway, where she was drinking, *then* she made out with him (and promptly turned werewolf and ripped him to shreds).
Oh yeah, that story was also seen in new X-men, Emma was pissed and kicked Rahne real fast after that shit got out. On the other hand, in academy X we saw the story from Elixir's perspective, and damn he's a fuckboi hitting on 3 girls at the same time I think, poor Rahne never stood a chance
I always see worst X-men runs being the Austin run and ultimate x-men when miller was writing cuz he somehow never read an X comic before which is insane to me
New Avengers by Bendis. The two had a conversation suggesting they had a previously unseen relationship.
Bendis was confused on her age and thought she was older. In fairness, her age was kind of undefined.
It was later jokingly retconned.
And, is it just me, it really doesn't make much sense for those characters to be attracted to each other.
And how does Wolverine even tolerate being around teenagers all the time? When the original X-Men start aging he starts hanging out with younger Kitty Pride and later he goes still younger with Jubilee ...what why?
Or... the X-men are overwhelmingly people who did not have loving supportive relationships with their parents as adolescents.
A time when adolescent young women benefit hugely from supportive male role-models that aren't sexually predatory. All of the young women identified were in that boat, along with so so many others.
So perhaps Wolverine doesn't have a complex so much as have the integrity, as a man in a marginalized community with a deficit of male rolemodels, to step up.
Perhaps a better question than why is Wolverine volunteering to address this nurturing deficit in the mutant community is where the hell are all of the other adult male mutants?
for all the bad Onslaught was, he reset the Avengers who had been royalty screwed over by the crossing. also because of the reset, Hyperstorm was the final villain of the original FF run, which I will always find funny as hell.
Laura's origin story as a child sex worker
Laura being accidentally cloned and turned into a who-knows-how-many-years-old lady
Original Laura dying just because they felt ~~Talon~~ the new Laura would be easier to write
X-23 character should have been so simple to write based on X-Men Evolution and yet they still made her "lore" so needlessly convoluted and dark for no reason.
I agree with this. The Talon twist felt unnecessary.
When it comes to Laura's past, it is so hard to re-read. I am surprised at how mainstream she has been in the last 8 years due to how dark she used to be as a character.
However, I wouldn't be who I am today without it being so dark.
Laura is the reason I got into comics. After I saw Evolution, I found NYX and her mini origin story. As a depressed neurodivergent teenage girl, it resonated with me. It was one of the only characters I could relate to at the time, especially since she self-harmed. I felt so bad for her that I started reading Laura x Hellion fanfiction to see her happy. Then, later writing it. *insert cringe face here*
My point is that I now hate how she was introduced to comics, yet it was perfect for me as a teen.
I am glad that they really improved her character and gave her more agency.
No need to cringe, hope that gave you a writing or creative bug!
Also I take it you read Marjorie Lius run? My take for best treatment Laura has had ever and since
Aww. Yes. It led to me studying English Literature in college.
I loved Liu's series. My favorite was when Laura was with Gambit. It was nice seeing Laura humanized, and Logan realizing that he needed to be there more for her.
I hope the writers have a better direction for Laura's character, especially since she has so much sentimental value to me.
I totally agree with you on X 23. And why is it they do that with a lot of female characters? they can’t think of any other traumatic background? It’s the Frank Millering of female characters
It’s insane to me how they thought the “old woman Laura” was a great idea
Like someone legitimately pitched it and was approved to run it
Even more crazy is that they went”hey I kinda want to write young Laura as well..let’s clone her”
Insanity
Yes and no.
In Krakoa they introduced something called resurrection protocols.
They can resurrect anyone, even if they are still alive.
So for few months there were two Lauras, one old and one young.
And then Duggan killed the old one so his boy Synch could have some feelings, so sad uwu.
But the young Laura, "clone" as people say is not a clone. Not more then Cyclops, Jean, Logan, Monet, Warren, Nightcrawler and literally anyone who died during Krakoa.
Just because Talon - old Laura - survived being locked for hundreds of years doesn't mean young Laura, the one that survived Duggans shitty writing - is not the real one.
People argue about the souls, but it's like lighting one candle from the other - the other doesn't have to perish to give new one the same light.
True, Laura is my favorite character simply because she isn't a "Big Name", so the editorial doesn't f*ck everything up regressing her over and over again like Spiderman and Wolverine, but now? What guarantees that they're not going to do some BS like bringing back the Trigger Scent to repeat the same plot yet again?, i just hope they keep doing things like Deadly Regenesis because i can ignore pointless stories like that one.
Psylocke’s history as an English model/spy being brainwashed and given cybernetic eyes, then body swapping with a Japanese woman, then getting amnesia multiple times, swapping powers with other characters and various other rewrites lol. Psionic blades as a power is cool, but man, almost everything else about her is such a problematic mess lol.
Secondarily, Mystique being literal Sherlock Holmes bothers me so deeply lol. There’s so much baggage with that concept, and I feel like it does a disservice to what makes mystique interesting and unique.
See and I loved reading Mystique as Sherlock Holmes in Immortal X-Men #8😂 I like that she shapeshifted into a white man in the Victorian era as a visible mutant woman like her would obviously not receive such credibility despite her skills. Also love that Irene Adler is the same Irene from the Sherlock stories. Idk I think it’s a really fun spin on the story and I would love if more stories set in that era of their lives were written. We need more sapphic mystery solvers!
I agree with Psylocke’s history tho yikes😵💫
Madelyne Pryor, still a toss up whether I'd want her character removed entirely or just not have her be a Jean Grey clone.
All-New X-Men, it lasted for ages and they did fuck-all with it. It had maybe one or two good ideas but most of it was just a waste.
Scott-Jean-Logan love triangle. Any love triangle is dreadful, but this one just made all three characters worse.
I made [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/1c6yy1k/emma_has_more_than_one_problem/l085vzn/?context=3) post a few months ago about how easy it would have been to just make Madelyne Jean the whole time, and I’ll never understand why they didn’t take that path when they knew they were going to be putting Scott and Jean back together anyway.
Yeah you were cooking. I hate a lot of the madelyne pryor stuff, because I *really* don't like Scott's happy ending being him meeting an identical clone of Jean Grey.
The nowhere person in a nowhere place thing was still peak though.
To your second point, it is absolutely wild how great some of Bendis's ideas where during this era of comics. And its even wilder how he managed to do fuck all with these great ideas. Pre and Post AvX cyclops and wolverine dynamic was so good, but i never felt like any writers knew what to do with them except be mean to each other. They were on opposing sides but their relationship was so much more complicated than just being mad at each other and this was never fully explored imo
Deadly Genesis for sure. I felt this one really cranked up the “Prof X is a piece of shit” to 11 and Marvel never looked back. I really don’t like Vulcan either…my least favourite type of character - the “superman” vague Uber energy blaster. Plus he wastes the third Summers brothers slot
I quit comics during the time of IvX…so I’d add AvX since that was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Thunderbird wasn’t fully cooked yet, so I’m not too choked up about his death. Plus it served to create the superior character of Warpath.
I’d probably pick that nonsense with Romulus for my third…or maybe The Draco?
Erasing Schism is insane, genuinely one of the better storytelling bits in X-Men history based purely on how long the build up was over the course of so many different writers. Narrative beats and themes staying consistent throughout each run for Scott and Logan specifically make the event as great as it is. I get that it’s a subjective thing, I just had to voice my disagreement
On paper Schism is great but the actual story is... scuffed, to mildly.
Hellfire babies, wild disconnect between what Jason Aaron wanted me to feel and what the things happening on page make me feel such as Logan is *supposed* to be right but is written as violent, hypocritical, and down right dangerous, Scott and Logan having a dick measuring contest while the Sentinel closes in, did I mention the Hellfire babies?
>Scott and Logan having a dick measuring contest while the Sentinel closes in
The fact that Sentinels were closing in and their ideological arguments failed pissed them off so much that they both basically went "No bitches?" is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
Schism can be summed up as:
Wolverine: Let kids be kids!
Cyclops: These kids are going to be murdered if they don't fight back
Wolverine: You're a dick
Cyclops: My dead wife thought you were scary
Literally the dumbest arguments of all time considering the history of the X-Men.
The Draco, I know Spurrier and company did what they could to reretcon it, but I wish Azazel didn't factor in at all.
A bunch of Rahne stuff ("mutant panic" death, hell lords fighting over who gets to murder her son, student-teacher relationship)
Terrigen Mists...nuff said
Tbh I’m pretty happy with where the Draco is in canon now. Azazel is a fool and got duped by Mystique and was never Nightcrawler’s father.
It’s still a bad story, but X-Men Blue fixed the Draco’s worst canon contributions—Nightcrawler’s parentage and Mystique’s lack of agency. Now, the story is mostly just meaningless schlock like so many other stories.
Scott and Logan fighting over Jean Grey, every human being a mutant hater, mutantkind's futures always leading into extinction.
These are the most repetitive and god awful story beats Marvel always pushes and I'm exhausted from this.
No More Mutants. Really everything with Wanda around that time. HATE how they treated her character.
Kitty and Colossus. Petey would be way more likeable to me if he wasn't a groomer for about 16 years
And the whole Talon/Synch shit. Needlessly complicates Laura's character while not doing anything really special
Decimation because it character assassinated one of the Avengers best heroes (Wanda) and ignored decades of character development to make her turn evil for no reason and then hurt mutant kind. And then they kept mentioning it in every single issue she appeared in afterwards.
Avengers Vs X Men is terrible towards Scottt
And that 3rd pic disgust me
2nd IvX. It was the first thing I thought of. At least AvX can have some defense, and it was more fun. IvX was painful. I'd also say in general anything with the terrigenesis cloud suddenly becoming poison to mutants.
1. Vault story, with how it sucked for both Laura and Darwin
2. Talon existing
3. Talon existing as only accessory for Synch and dying only for his emotions.
Talon is Just a clone created by the COTV as a sleeper agent,Please let us all agree on this because I refuse to believe that Laura got Crisis Supergirl'd
I would erase IvX because it was just so very very bad. That whole era...awful.
Storm/Black Panther marriage. No. No no no no no no. It was a dreadful idea from the get-go. Just dreadful.
I completely disagree. I definitely think they can get rid of the later stuff when everything fell apart and they were both lost etc. kitty becoming a pirate for no reason etc. colossus really took a beating for a long time too. Before the end and after like the writers hate him. It’s odd. Anywho. Sorry for the rant.
I’ll counterpoint. Gambit and rogues relationship is retcon. Not completely as I liked it at first but they really beat it to death and forced it on everyone after a while. Like i get it, I like that they like each other. Get on with it or end it. Anyone know how long that was dragged out for? Decades? I apologize. I said rant was over and I moved to a different one. Now end of rant. (It’s funny how nerd rage works and can keep you rambling.)
Honestly it could’ve even been Cyclops vs Beast because the whole era post Messiah Complex Hank was the one challenging Scott on how he became completely okay with casual murder and torture
Except… who would wanna follow Beast? lol. He also came off as a hypocrite during this era. Storm would’ve been better cause she never came off as petty.
Cyclops cheating on Jean Grey with Emma Frost then gaslighting Jean and kissing Emma on Jean’s grave (all of those things combined are what served to irritate me not one or the other by itself). Magneto ever being considered Xorn/Xorn’s brother. Beast becoming evil.
1. Nate Grey banging Madelyne Pryor
2. Polaris being Magneto's daughter / Wanda and Pietro *not* being Magneto's kids
3. House of M. Even acknowledging that we got a ton of good stories out of the Decimation (and that it led to the GOAT era of X-Men, the Messiah Trilogy/Utopia), there probably could've been a more elegant and organic way to accomplish that in-story than having Wanda's [magic vajayjay](https://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3390/1346/1600/House%20of%20M%20%282005%29%2001%20page%2024.jpg) rewrite the universe.
1. Deadpool
2. "No more mutants". I hate what it did to Wanda and how it became central to X-books for so damn long.
3. Resurrection Protocols. Death is already a punchline in comics, I hated that it became even more of a joke during the Krakoan era.
Rosenberg's Uncanny X-Men, especially since HoXPoX made the whole thing irrelevant. Would've been cooler to see Cyclops and Wolverine return in the Krakoa era than right before.
Schism had interesting ideas, but ultimately turned into a petty squabble between Cyclops and Wolverine, so I'd get rid of that. I do love Wolverine and the X-Men, but I'd save it for after AvX. Makes more sense to start a school after the mutant population has been reignited. Also Wolverine on the extinction team would be bad-ass.
Finally, Romulus. Nuff said.
I dunno man, i found Rosenberg’s X-men fascinating. It was just seemed relentlessly miserable and desperate in a way i dont think ive seen before. Im not going to bat for it or anything and you can easily skip it but its a mad bookend to an era that arguably started with New X-Men 20 years earlier. Almost saying “well this dream didnt work out, but fuck it we will always fight for one down to the last”.
But yeah the answer is probably IvX, my god that was bad.
I totally see what you're saying. And the fact that Rosenberg's run was immediately followed up with Krakoa made it a kind of last hurrah for the X-Men's dark years. I think that's what makes it hard to say which stories I'd want erased, because, to some extent, every story has its place in x-history. Even total garbage like IvX lmao.
Totally! Im willing to bet some nutcase in ten years time turns in an incredible x-men story that retcons ivx and repurposes the story to make you doubt yourself and think “wait am i mis-remembering, was ivx actually good??”
I guess it had to be someone’s first comic book right!
I remember when IvsX came out and people were wondering if there was a “secret” third villain or the terrigen cloud itself was sentient since the current plot was too stupid.
Logan and Victor not being half siblings,prof being into some of his students. Either Erik getting with Rouge or Bobby being gay. I’m cool with bi tho. Also how he was forced to come out.
Unpopular take:
I would take out everything about alternative time lines that happened after the original Days of Futur Past. I know it's a lot from the past 40 years of X-Men continuity but it was sooooo loooong and drawn out as a story line it was really hard to pay attention and felt both lazy and confusing.
This is definitely not the correct thread for this unpopular opinion, but after recently re-reading AvX I really truly legitimately don't think it's nearly as bad as everyone says.
The obvious one that started it all: I would erase Jean Grey's (first) resurrection. That should take care of a lot of things via domino effect.
Magneto becoming a villain again for Acts of Vengeance.
The formation of Excalibur. Kitty, Kurt and Rachel belonged to the X-Men.
For clarity, I mean a time displaced adult Rachel who joins the team.
Play out the likely scenarios.
Jean is alive. Her and Scott go off to the side, get married and have a kid (Nathan or even Rachel).
Eventually Jean gets her powers back and they rejoin the team. There is no need for another Jean type with Rachel to join the team.
Colossus probably joins Excalibur instead.
Wolverines origin was just so plain. We waiting forever for this. Oh well thanks comic books. Can we get another editor who’ll retcon some of it. Howlette? Can you get any lamer.
Decimation/198/whatever. the pointless massacre and depowrings of the Academy X kids. almost none of the depowerings really stuck as is.
most of the Morrision run. in particular the pure existence of Fantomex the walking overly done complicated cliche. Xorneto was awful and should never have tried to be Magneto. Jean's death was pointless. Lion Beast was just lame. The Scott/Emma affair sucked. The millions of Genosha deaths of background nobodies for shock factor.
Anything AoA after the original. Age of Apocalypse was amazing but trying to milk it later just was bad taste. Not to mention trying to make it an alternate reality instead of what it was at the start. Whatever they tried to do with Nightcrawler and Iceman years later shouldn't have happened.
Stacy X being pushed out of the book.
Magneto going evil again in the early 90s.
Azazel and his bans of demon mutants as well as all the Angel mutants.
* The IvX / Terrigen Mist era where Marvel was trying to sideline the X-Men completely
* The way too convoluted Wolverine: Origins
* Kitty Pryde and Star Lord
* The whole bit where Magik allowed Colossus' torture and gave the impression that she had gone batshit insane (granted Bendis did his best to walk that back)
1. Peter Milligan's X-men
2. MagnetoXRogue
3. Madelyne Pryor - While I was fine with the adaptation in X-men 97 and the changes they made I think that entire thing has had negative effects on Scott's character for decades.
Bone claws.
Phoenix puting Jean in a cocoon underwater so she isn't culpable for genocide.
Nighcrawlers birth retcons (Specifically all the demon stuff, im ok with Mystique being daddy)
That's a great list. Schism is so bad. The minute I saw the pre-school Hellfire Club I just had to take a break. I can't delete 2000s X-Men in general can I?
I'd get rid of Deadly Genesis - Pointless, terrible event that didn't need to happen, did a lot of damage to Xavier, and really only served to give us some insight into Vulcan, but it's just Vulcan, who really cares? No need to do that much harm to actually important characters for his sake. And in such a goofy, poorly explained way?
AVX - This was just bad for X-Men fans and Avengers fans. It poisoned the Avengers to a lot of X-Fans, the event was badly written, the conflict was poorly explained and manufactured, and it had the X-Men lost in the wilderness for years after this.
The ending of New X-Men - Yeah, my controversial pick, I can take the downvotes. Xornneto, Cyclops quitting somehow causing the downfall of all mutant kind, the sheer number of mutants, Jean dying for the next 15 years instead of this launching a Phoenix book in the cosmos were all just weird, bad decisions that I think hampered the X-Men a lot in the aftermath but people tend to just romanticize for nostalgia because this was most people's first read. The ending of New X-Men is what in part motivated Decimation, which was another horrible event. It put Marvel in a sticky position, not least of which was because of the conditions Morrison left under too.
I'm surprised Inhumans vs X-men wasn't immediately mentioned yet. Like AvX was bad, but compared to IvX? Nah.
Ah yes that time Emma decided to commit genocide and Moon Girl could've solved the plot in like five seconds
Plus Scott being dead the whole time and it was just a mental projection done by Emma that no one else noticed suuuire
I read this for the first time literally yesterday and I have to get this off my chest- WHY was there a PHOTOGRAPH of Black Bolt killing Cyclops if he was just a telepathic illusion/projection. Did she also upload a photoshopped image of Cyclops dying to the records of the incident? The whole event just sucked. The second half of it was just one giant "this all could have been avoided with one conversation" incident. /exhale
it's like the ring. that's how the video tape works a psychic impression on a photograph. although I skipped on IvX so I could be wrong.
Also, even though it wasn't really Scott, back when everyone still thought it was Scott, absolutely no one called out Black Bolt for murdering him in cold blood. Every single member of the X-Men was like 'welp, had to be done, let's be best friends with the Inhumans now.' I know he had become a villain in many of their eyes (which is a whole other betrayal of those characters that is too long to bitch about here), but the man was just trying to save his people from a literal plague cloud, a literal plague cloud that the Inhumans were actively fighting to keep around despite the rising mutant death toll. And their king just fucking executes him for it. And everyone acts like it was the right thing to do. Insanity. #Cyclopswasright
The greatest x-men villain was marvel editorial.
Funny, I always think of them as a Spider-Man villain first
And just killing off Madrox offscreen for the sake of shock value in the first issue of death of x after Peter David wrote him and Lyra a happy ending after taking good character the characters for a decade+. Seemed like a spit in his face and to fans of x-factor.
Was she projecting his smell too? Cause I think that would have clued in wolverine.
I mean, (and I'm not defending the story here, it's awful) given that telepathy involves screwing with the recipient's brain rather than projecting an illusion into 3d space (we just see it as that) presumably she would be projecting his smell yes? Marvel is awful at understanding telepathy and what it should be able to do.
Yeah, that was ridiculous. It did seem like the Cuckoos and Magneto figured out what she was doing - and Magik seem to suspect as well.
Not Luna's fault everyone else is stupid. Girl is out here struggling with lesser beings.
whoever made the choice that there should be two inhumans named Luna
No joke, I saw few people liked this, because it "shows how much Emma loves Scott" or something.
The worst part is after apparently genociding some Inhumans, Medusa just sort of shrugged and was like “oh well that sucks Emma did that”
It's erased from everyone's head Canon though, along with most of the inhumans
Inhu-what? Even the tv series is forgettable AF.
When I was reminded the show existed earlier this year I legit thought "wait when did they make a movie? Are they making one?"then realized the tv show existed
Black Bolt and Lockjaw deserved better
Black Bolt got screwed over *twice* in the MCU.
Black Bolt is my favorite character, and I would have been more upset about Multiverse of Madness but everyone's fan favorite fan cast got killed right afterwards which softened the blow.
Marvel and Disney: punishing the fans for being right about a casting.
Black Bolt’s a character I get excited for but literally the rest of the Inhumans could disappear forever and I’d be good. As their king though, you can’t ever totally separate him from them without his entire arc being to reunite with them. A cosmic version as someone’s herald would be interesting, but still his motivation would be return to the Inhumans.
For my part I'm surprised that Black BOlt got away with everything after nearly gassing mutantkind to death, well most of his people got killed by Vox and the Secret empire so that's some sort of cosmic karma for him, too bad Emma didn't finished him and medusa off, it'd be one of her best acts in my opinion.
I think almost everybody already considers it non-canon. Nobody talks about it. Even subsequent writers ignore it. It's just that bad across the board. There's no real redeeming quality to it.
That was my first thought
it was completely inconsequential, that's why
Its erased from my head-canon
I'm sorry for even reminding you friend.
I will say either Wanda and Pietro no longer being magnetos children and or mutants. Or no more mutants from here. Not even because genocide is such an exhausting and sad story beat. But for a character who spent decades as a hero and avenger who has now spent almost decades shackled to this tragedy is exhausting and unfair. I also don’t think it’s lead to anything that interesting on her behalf. At least it’s seemingly at an end now that she is the redeemer but still. I
>a character who spent decades as a hero and avenger who has now spent decades shackled to this Hank Pym: “First time?”
I feel though at least pym largely as disappeared in universe. But with Wanda there was a time where she could barely intersect with some characters without it being brought up. Even when she wasn’t on screen. I adore the xmen I just wanna preface this. But I did not love the whole pretender but.
Yea that made me very annoyed
You don’t like Charles being in love with Scott?
No, him in love with an orphan he help raised, thats even creepier than Jean and Xavier
Woody Allen would like a word.
I wish. That’d be awesome.
Now that I would love to read!
No, that'd be grooming.
Peter Milligan's whole X-Men arc: People say Austen's run was bad, but at least that had a great Juggernaut. There were no redeeming factors in Milligan's run. I have no idea what he was smoking, but this is, imo, the worst X-Men run of all time. It looks even worse when you consider that Carey succeeded him, which.....good lord. That's like Beethoven performing a concert right after a baboon screeched into a mic. Rahne dating Elixir: I mean.....what the actual fuck. NYX: Edgy edgelords decided to be as edgy as possible and decided that the 2000s wasn't edgy enough, so they broke the edge-o-meter.
rahne, a full grown ass women dating a minor is by far the worse.
Not *just* a minor, she was an adult teacher and he was a student. It's not only the age, but the power imbalance. It was so much worse than Angel x Husk, yet that one seems to get criticized much more.
Said minor was also under the guidance and legal care of one of her closest friends. Who has shown motherly care over said children. Rahne basically messed around with her best friend's son.
I mean, that's kind of a reflection of real life. A male teacher having sex with a student is correctly called rape, while a female teacher would be reported as "having sex" with student.
Angel also wasn't a teacher and Husk went to and graduated at a different school. They didn't interact while she was a student.
Still, Warren met her when she was still a minor. Age differences are less creepy when the older person didn't know the younger person while they were still underage.
To be fair elixir didn't fucked Rahne, they just kissed, and he's the one hitting on her most of the time. Also Emma was worried about Elixir after the whole affair with Rahne, but it seems he's doing fine, he also tried to hit on Magma and Laurie afterwards. . . so I think he's the problem, and honestly the age difference between him and Rahne was just 3 years.
The problem is that the sliding scale timeline makes it unclear just how old Rahne was. It's clear in the OG New Mutants that she's the youngest possibly as young as 12. While the others are around 14-16. So if she's 2-3 years younger than everyone else it really kind of depends on how old they're all supposed to be. A lot of the OG New Mutants in that time period were depicted as being right around 20 years old, which if Rahne is 2 to 3 years younger then she is definitely not an adult as we know her--possibly as young as 17. If the New Mutants were 14 on average and are now "adults"--call it 25--that means the then 25 year old OG X-Men must be 35 which is a good 7 years older than editorial wants them to be. However, if the New Mutants have only aged about 3-5 years that puts the O5 right in the 28-29 year age bracket editorial wants them. The reason the O5's age matters is because they're contemporaries of Spidey. EDIT: She was "older," but that wasn't why she was a teacher. Her dramatically greater experience as an X-person is why she was a "teacher." It's worth noting she was only a field teacher, and even then it basically broke down because she was clearly too young/immature for the job.
altho marvel age varies, its certain she was a adult and he was a child.
I just read it like 20 minutes ago. They explicitly stated that Josh was 16 and Rahne was 19.
I completely forgot that happened. Definitely going on number four.
Not to mention it started off with her blowing off his attempts at flirting with her, but when he met up with her at Harry's Hideaway, where she was drinking, *then* she made out with him (and promptly turned werewolf and ripped him to shreds).
Oh yeah, that story was also seen in new X-men, Emma was pissed and kicked Rahne real fast after that shit got out. On the other hand, in academy X we saw the story from Elixir's perspective, and damn he's a fuckboi hitting on 3 girls at the same time I think, poor Rahne never stood a chance
None of what you've said here is wrong. Milligan's run was truly awful.
Milligan was the whole Gambit, Polaris, Sunfire and Gazer as Horsemen of the Apocalypse right?
I always see worst X-men runs being the Austin run and ultimate x-men when miller was writing cuz he somehow never read an X comic before which is insane to me
"Baboon screaming into a mic" You mean Yoko Ono singing backup for Chuck Berry?
Wolverine & Squirrel Girl Magneto & Rogue Kitty and Pete/Peter/Peter/Bobby
Yes Yes Yes
All this, yes lol
We're Logan and Doreen ever a thing? I feel like I missed something.
New Avengers by Bendis. The two had a conversation suggesting they had a previously unseen relationship. Bendis was confused on her age and thought she was older. In fairness, her age was kind of undefined. It was later jokingly retconned.
How they retconned the wolvie/squirrel thing?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/s/dsPoijvOQE
That's actually kinda funny
Cool! Ahaah
The stupid love triangle between Wolverine, Cyclops, and Jean Grey. It is so overdone and boring as hell.
One of the things the Evolution show handled in the way it ought to have always been
Yesss I love Wolverine being more like a protective father figure in the show, that's definitely how I prefer his character. In Logan too.
i dont really know why they keep forcing it when at the same time we see Logan being with other women constantly. its very tiresome.
And, is it just me, it really doesn't make much sense for those characters to be attracted to each other. And how does Wolverine even tolerate being around teenagers all the time? When the original X-Men start aging he starts hanging out with younger Kitty Pride and later he goes still younger with Jubilee ...what why?
He's got a big brother complex
Or... the X-men are overwhelmingly people who did not have loving supportive relationships with their parents as adolescents. A time when adolescent young women benefit hugely from supportive male role-models that aren't sexually predatory. All of the young women identified were in that boat, along with so so many others. So perhaps Wolverine doesn't have a complex so much as have the integrity, as a man in a marginalized community with a deficit of male rolemodels, to step up. Perhaps a better question than why is Wolverine volunteering to address this nurturing deficit in the mutant community is where the hell are all of the other adult male mutants?
IvX Decimation aaaaaaand Onslaught maybe? AvX? I'm not sure
for all the bad Onslaught was, he reset the Avengers who had been royalty screwed over by the crossing. also because of the reset, Hyperstorm was the final villain of the original FF run, which I will always find funny as hell.
Laura's origin story as a child sex worker Laura being accidentally cloned and turned into a who-knows-how-many-years-old lady Original Laura dying just because they felt ~~Talon~~ the new Laura would be easier to write X-23 character should have been so simple to write based on X-Men Evolution and yet they still made her "lore" so needlessly convoluted and dark for no reason.
I am a Laura Kinney fan and I approve this message.
I agree with this. The Talon twist felt unnecessary. When it comes to Laura's past, it is so hard to re-read. I am surprised at how mainstream she has been in the last 8 years due to how dark she used to be as a character. However, I wouldn't be who I am today without it being so dark. Laura is the reason I got into comics. After I saw Evolution, I found NYX and her mini origin story. As a depressed neurodivergent teenage girl, it resonated with me. It was one of the only characters I could relate to at the time, especially since she self-harmed. I felt so bad for her that I started reading Laura x Hellion fanfiction to see her happy. Then, later writing it. *insert cringe face here* My point is that I now hate how she was introduced to comics, yet it was perfect for me as a teen. I am glad that they really improved her character and gave her more agency.
You know, despite it all I am glad people got something out of NYX. As much as I don't like it. Makes it feel a bit better in the long run.
No need to cringe, hope that gave you a writing or creative bug! Also I take it you read Marjorie Lius run? My take for best treatment Laura has had ever and since
Aww. Yes. It led to me studying English Literature in college. I loved Liu's series. My favorite was when Laura was with Gambit. It was nice seeing Laura humanized, and Logan realizing that he needed to be there more for her. I hope the writers have a better direction for Laura's character, especially since she has so much sentimental value to me.
Glad to know at least some good came out of these decisions and managed to help someone along the way. 😊
Welcome to comic books.
The Monkey's Paw effect of Laura getting more spotlight in comics has sadly been bullshit like that Talon stuff happening to her. /sigh
I totally agree with you on X 23. And why is it they do that with a lot of female characters? they can’t think of any other traumatic background? It’s the Frank Millering of female characters
Facts
Talon is the original Laura
Well Talon was such a sattelite character,hopefully they retcon it that she was a clone created by the COTV soon
It’s insane to me how they thought the “old woman Laura” was a great idea Like someone legitimately pitched it and was approved to run it Even more crazy is that they went”hey I kinda want to write young Laura as well..let’s clone her” Insanity
Hold on. I'm still getting caught up on Krakoa. Is Laura dead right now?
Yes and no. In Krakoa they introduced something called resurrection protocols. They can resurrect anyone, even if they are still alive. So for few months there were two Lauras, one old and one young. And then Duggan killed the old one so his boy Synch could have some feelings, so sad uwu. But the young Laura, "clone" as people say is not a clone. Not more then Cyclops, Jean, Logan, Monet, Warren, Nightcrawler and literally anyone who died during Krakoa. Just because Talon - old Laura - survived being locked for hundreds of years doesn't mean young Laura, the one that survived Duggans shitty writing - is not the real one. People argue about the souls, but it's like lighting one candle from the other - the other doesn't have to perish to give new one the same light.
True, Laura is my favorite character simply because she isn't a "Big Name", so the editorial doesn't f*ck everything up regressing her over and over again like Spiderman and Wolverine, but now? What guarantees that they're not going to do some BS like bringing back the Trigger Scent to repeat the same plot yet again?, i just hope they keep doing things like Deadly Regenesis because i can ignore pointless stories like that one.
Psylocke’s history as an English model/spy being brainwashed and given cybernetic eyes, then body swapping with a Japanese woman, then getting amnesia multiple times, swapping powers with other characters and various other rewrites lol. Psionic blades as a power is cool, but man, almost everything else about her is such a problematic mess lol. Secondarily, Mystique being literal Sherlock Holmes bothers me so deeply lol. There’s so much baggage with that concept, and I feel like it does a disservice to what makes mystique interesting and unique.
Kwannon/Psylocke is Japanese not Chinese.
Oops, My mistake! Thank you!
See and I loved reading Mystique as Sherlock Holmes in Immortal X-Men #8😂 I like that she shapeshifted into a white man in the Victorian era as a visible mutant woman like her would obviously not receive such credibility despite her skills. Also love that Irene Adler is the same Irene from the Sherlock stories. Idk I think it’s a really fun spin on the story and I would love if more stories set in that era of their lives were written. We need more sapphic mystery solvers! I agree with Psylocke’s history tho yikes😵💫
Madelyne Pryor, still a toss up whether I'd want her character removed entirely or just not have her be a Jean Grey clone. All-New X-Men, it lasted for ages and they did fuck-all with it. It had maybe one or two good ideas but most of it was just a waste. Scott-Jean-Logan love triangle. Any love triangle is dreadful, but this one just made all three characters worse.
I made [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/1c6yy1k/emma_has_more_than_one_problem/l085vzn/?context=3) post a few months ago about how easy it would have been to just make Madelyne Jean the whole time, and I’ll never understand why they didn’t take that path when they knew they were going to be putting Scott and Jean back together anyway.
Yeah you were cooking. I hate a lot of the madelyne pryor stuff, because I *really* don't like Scott's happy ending being him meeting an identical clone of Jean Grey. The nowhere person in a nowhere place thing was still peak though.
To your second point, it is absolutely wild how great some of Bendis's ideas where during this era of comics. And its even wilder how he managed to do fuck all with these great ideas. Pre and Post AvX cyclops and wolverine dynamic was so good, but i never felt like any writers knew what to do with them except be mean to each other. They were on opposing sides but their relationship was so much more complicated than just being mad at each other and this was never fully explored imo
The Death of Thunderbird, Inhumans vs X-Men, and Deadly Genesis.
Deadly Genesis for sure. I felt this one really cranked up the “Prof X is a piece of shit” to 11 and Marvel never looked back. I really don’t like Vulcan either…my least favourite type of character - the “superman” vague Uber energy blaster. Plus he wastes the third Summers brothers slot I quit comics during the time of IvX…so I’d add AvX since that was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Thunderbird wasn’t fully cooked yet, so I’m not too choked up about his death. Plus it served to create the superior character of Warpath. I’d probably pick that nonsense with Romulus for my third…or maybe The Draco?
Erasing Schism is insane, genuinely one of the better storytelling bits in X-Men history based purely on how long the build up was over the course of so many different writers. Narrative beats and themes staying consistent throughout each run for Scott and Logan specifically make the event as great as it is. I get that it’s a subjective thing, I just had to voice my disagreement
On paper Schism is great but the actual story is... scuffed, to mildly. Hellfire babies, wild disconnect between what Jason Aaron wanted me to feel and what the things happening on page make me feel such as Logan is *supposed* to be right but is written as violent, hypocritical, and down right dangerous, Scott and Logan having a dick measuring contest while the Sentinel closes in, did I mention the Hellfire babies?
>Scott and Logan having a dick measuring contest while the Sentinel closes in The fact that Sentinels were closing in and their ideological arguments failed pissed them off so much that they both basically went "No bitches?" is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
You all are making me want to read all these horrible stories. Can we get a list?
I'll say it, Schism should have been between Cyclops and Storm, not Cyclops and Wolverine.
Wouldn't be the last time Aaron disappointed me.
More or less than that terrible fucking Avengers run?
That's the the one. First time I actually dropped a book.
Schism can be summed up as: Wolverine: Let kids be kids! Cyclops: These kids are going to be murdered if they don't fight back Wolverine: You're a dick Cyclops: My dead wife thought you were scary Literally the dumbest arguments of all time considering the history of the X-Men.
You know this is the first time I’ve really seen Schism being mentioned as not like. Thought it was the run before or after it that wasn’t liked
The Draco, I know Spurrier and company did what they could to reretcon it, but I wish Azazel didn't factor in at all. A bunch of Rahne stuff ("mutant panic" death, hell lords fighting over who gets to murder her son, student-teacher relationship) Terrigen Mists...nuff said
What is the Draco?
I see someone already answered, but I just wanted to say, "Oh, you sweet summer child."
Tbh I’m pretty happy with where the Draco is in canon now. Azazel is a fool and got duped by Mystique and was never Nightcrawler’s father. It’s still a bad story, but X-Men Blue fixed the Draco’s worst canon contributions—Nightcrawler’s parentage and Mystique’s lack of agency. Now, the story is mostly just meaningless schlock like so many other stories.
Scott and Logan fighting over Jean Grey, every human being a mutant hater, mutantkind's futures always leading into extinction. These are the most repetitive and god awful story beats Marvel always pushes and I'm exhausted from this.
A vs X
No More Mutants. Really everything with Wanda around that time. HATE how they treated her character. Kitty and Colossus. Petey would be way more likeable to me if he wasn't a groomer for about 16 years And the whole Talon/Synch shit. Needlessly complicates Laura's character while not doing anything really special
Wanda's No More Mutants
Decimation because it character assassinated one of the Avengers best heroes (Wanda) and ignored decades of character development to make her turn evil for no reason and then hurt mutant kind. And then they kept mentioning it in every single issue she appeared in afterwards. Avengers Vs X Men is terrible towards Scottt And that 3rd pic disgust me
I mean Decimation didn't do that to Wanda. The people who wrote Disassembled did that to Wanda. House of M was just a follow-up to Disassembled.
It was literally the same author
Fuck. They were both Bendis weren't they?
AVX, The whole memory wipe 2nd X-Men team nonsense, Wolverine getting an origin
1. Deadly Genesis 2. Danger 3. Charles killing Human in Fall of X
Logan's thing with Jean Storm's thing with T'Challa Everything about IvX
2nd IvX. It was the first thing I thought of. At least AvX can have some defense, and it was more fun. IvX was painful. I'd also say in general anything with the terrigenesis cloud suddenly becoming poison to mutants.
Storm and T’Challa was so bad.
Rogue and Magneto relationship. 🤮
1. Vault story, with how it sucked for both Laura and Darwin 2. Talon existing 3. Talon existing as only accessory for Synch and dying only for his emotions.
Talon is Just a clone created by the COTV as a sleeper agent,Please let us all agree on this because I refuse to believe that Laura got Crisis Supergirl'd
I'd love for Marvel to confirm that.
I would erase IvX because it was just so very very bad. That whole era...awful. Storm/Black Panther marriage. No. No no no no no no. It was a dreadful idea from the get-go. Just dreadful.
X-Men vs avengers
the love triangle has to go
Wanda & Pietro Maximoff, and Franklin Richards not being considered mutants at present. Xorneto Nightcrawler's retconned parentage
Xavier being the "bad guy"... I'm tired of this, it's been used so many times. It's not deep or it's not edgy anymore
Off the top of my head? Colossus and Kitty's entire romantic relationship.
Counterpoint: making Kitty like, two years older, and Colossus like two years younger.
I completely disagree. I definitely think they can get rid of the later stuff when everything fell apart and they were both lost etc. kitty becoming a pirate for no reason etc. colossus really took a beating for a long time too. Before the end and after like the writers hate him. It’s odd. Anywho. Sorry for the rant. I’ll counterpoint. Gambit and rogues relationship is retcon. Not completely as I liked it at first but they really beat it to death and forced it on everyone after a while. Like i get it, I like that they like each other. Get on with it or end it. Anyone know how long that was dragged out for? Decades? I apologize. I said rant was over and I moved to a different one. Now end of rant. (It’s funny how nerd rage works and can keep you rambling.)
Schism should’ve been Cyclops vs Storm. I hated what they did with Logan during those years.
Honestly it could’ve even been Cyclops vs Beast because the whole era post Messiah Complex Hank was the one challenging Scott on how he became completely okay with casual murder and torture
Except… who would wanna follow Beast? lol. He also came off as a hypocrite during this era. Storm would’ve been better cause she never came off as petty.
Illyana getting de-aged, Jean being with Scott instead of Scemma, Layla miller being forgotten as a character
Definitely, prof Xavier smoking a pipe is a thing to erase 😁
None of the above really.
Cyclops cheating on Jean Grey with Emma Frost then gaslighting Jean and kissing Emma on Jean’s grave (all of those things combined are what served to irritate me not one or the other by itself). Magneto ever being considered Xorn/Xorn’s brother. Beast becoming evil.
Bendis, Bendis. Bendis.
AvX, X-Men of Bendis, Wanda and Pietro retcon of not being Magneto\`s child.
Rogue x Magneto, Emma Frost and removing Warren and Bobby as main X Men
That Nightcrawler/Mystique retcon that happened a few months back. Or just Krakoa in general. It felt way too culty for me.
Any and all parentage retcons, deadly genesis, Moira X
Yeah, it's going to be Inhuman's vs X men, because damn that was dumb, Charles' crush on Jean, and Jean outing Bobby, because ewww.
Wolverines origin.
Krakoa
Mr sinister All the cheating Xavier and wolverine sexual attraction to jean grey.
1. Nate Grey banging Madelyne Pryor 2. Polaris being Magneto's daughter / Wanda and Pietro *not* being Magneto's kids 3. House of M. Even acknowledging that we got a ton of good stories out of the Decimation (and that it led to the GOAT era of X-Men, the Messiah Trilogy/Utopia), there probably could've been a more elegant and organic way to accomplish that in-story than having Wanda's [magic vajayjay](https://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3390/1346/1600/House%20of%20M%20%282005%29%2001%20page%2024.jpg) rewrite the universe.
>Nate Grey banging Madelyne Pryor Oh hell no. I totally missed this.
Maybe you didn't miss it and you're just blocking it out like the rest of us.
1. Deadpool 2. "No more mutants". I hate what it did to Wanda and how it became central to X-books for so damn long. 3. Resurrection Protocols. Death is already a punchline in comics, I hated that it became even more of a joke during the Krakoan era.
1. The Scott/Jean/ Logan triangle-throuple thing. 2. Scott and Maddie’s marriage falling apart. 3. Xavier’s paternalism.
Rosenberg's Uncanny X-Men, especially since HoXPoX made the whole thing irrelevant. Would've been cooler to see Cyclops and Wolverine return in the Krakoa era than right before. Schism had interesting ideas, but ultimately turned into a petty squabble between Cyclops and Wolverine, so I'd get rid of that. I do love Wolverine and the X-Men, but I'd save it for after AvX. Makes more sense to start a school after the mutant population has been reignited. Also Wolverine on the extinction team would be bad-ass. Finally, Romulus. Nuff said.
I dunno man, i found Rosenberg’s X-men fascinating. It was just seemed relentlessly miserable and desperate in a way i dont think ive seen before. Im not going to bat for it or anything and you can easily skip it but its a mad bookend to an era that arguably started with New X-Men 20 years earlier. Almost saying “well this dream didnt work out, but fuck it we will always fight for one down to the last”. But yeah the answer is probably IvX, my god that was bad.
I totally see what you're saying. And the fact that Rosenberg's run was immediately followed up with Krakoa made it a kind of last hurrah for the X-Men's dark years. I think that's what makes it hard to say which stories I'd want erased, because, to some extent, every story has its place in x-history. Even total garbage like IvX lmao.
Totally! Im willing to bet some nutcase in ten years time turns in an incredible x-men story that retcons ivx and repurposes the story to make you doubt yourself and think “wait am i mis-remembering, was ivx actually good??” I guess it had to be someone’s first comic book right!
I remember when IvsX came out and people were wondering if there was a “secret” third villain or the terrigen cloud itself was sentient since the current plot was too stupid.
Logan and Victor not being half siblings,prof being into some of his students. Either Erik getting with Rouge or Bobby being gay. I’m cool with bi tho. Also how he was forced to come out.
Alpha flight vs x-men
Once again, Wanda and Pietro no longer being magento’d kids and also those two being being retconned as mutants
Unpopular take: I would take out everything about alternative time lines that happened after the original Days of Futur Past. I know it's a lot from the past 40 years of X-Men continuity but it was sooooo loooong and drawn out as a story line it was really hard to pay attention and felt both lazy and confusing.
Angel and Husk in front of the family. A good deal of the Krakoa era. The Maximoff siblings not being mutants
Defiantly the Xavier’s crush on jean, beasts secondary mutation, Xorn Being magneto (that one most of all)
IvX. Obviously. Avengers BC. It has the Phoenix, it counts. Schism, and therefore AvX
Schism - eww. Wolverine as headmaster - That comic was terrible from the art direction to the premise. Nate Grey’s existence.
I'm actually surprised only a couple mentioned the Deadly Genesis storyline...
This is definitely not the correct thread for this unpopular opinion, but after recently re-reading AvX I really truly legitimately don't think it's nearly as bad as everyone says.
IvX, Fall of Krakoa or at least push it 2 more years , Wanda and Pietro not being mutants or at least make them Maxs bio kids
That whenever it comes to mutants everyone including other superheroes don’t support them.
Heterosexuality, monogamy, and police
Dang. I never knew that folks disliked Avengers vs. X-Men. I loved that story
Rogue and magneto’s relationship, three times over
I would erase the genocide
The obvious one that started it all: I would erase Jean Grey's (first) resurrection. That should take care of a lot of things via domino effect. Magneto becoming a villain again for Acts of Vengeance. The formation of Excalibur. Kitty, Kurt and Rachel belonged to the X-Men.
Wolverine's Origin. Jean never dies. No Madelyn. No Rachel. I'll save my third for later. Edit: No Asian Betsy. Asian Psylocke is her own character.
How does Jean not dying prevent Rachel?
For clarity, I mean a time displaced adult Rachel who joins the team. Play out the likely scenarios. Jean is alive. Her and Scott go off to the side, get married and have a kid (Nathan or even Rachel). Eventually Jean gets her powers back and they rejoin the team. There is no need for another Jean type with Rachel to join the team. Colossus probably joins Excalibur instead.
Wolverines origin was just so plain. We waiting forever for this. Oh well thanks comic books. Can we get another editor who’ll retcon some of it. Howlette? Can you get any lamer.
Decimation/198/whatever. the pointless massacre and depowrings of the Academy X kids. almost none of the depowerings really stuck as is. most of the Morrision run. in particular the pure existence of Fantomex the walking overly done complicated cliche. Xorneto was awful and should never have tried to be Magneto. Jean's death was pointless. Lion Beast was just lame. The Scott/Emma affair sucked. The millions of Genosha deaths of background nobodies for shock factor. Anything AoA after the original. Age of Apocalypse was amazing but trying to milk it later just was bad taste. Not to mention trying to make it an alternate reality instead of what it was at the start. Whatever they tried to do with Nightcrawler and Iceman years later shouldn't have happened.
Jean grey somehow changing ice man’s sexuality
Stacy X being pushed out of the book. Magneto going evil again in the early 90s. Azazel and his bans of demon mutants as well as all the Angel mutants.
* The IvX / Terrigen Mist era where Marvel was trying to sideline the X-Men completely * The way too convoluted Wolverine: Origins * Kitty Pryde and Star Lord * The whole bit where Magik allowed Colossus' torture and gave the impression that she had gone batshit insane (granted Bendis did his best to walk that back)
1. Peter Milligan's X-men 2. MagnetoXRogue 3. Madelyne Pryor - While I was fine with the adaptation in X-men 97 and the changes they made I think that entire thing has had negative effects on Scott's character for decades.
Bone claws. Phoenix puting Jean in a cocoon underwater so she isn't culpable for genocide. Nighcrawlers birth retcons (Specifically all the demon stuff, im ok with Mystique being daddy)
Krakoa....ALL OF IT! Clone Magneto, from the Onslaught saga, Cassandra Nova.
1-The love triangle 2-The love triangle 3-The love triangle
That's a great list. Schism is so bad. The minute I saw the pre-school Hellfire Club I just had to take a break. I can't delete 2000s X-Men in general can I? I'd get rid of Deadly Genesis - Pointless, terrible event that didn't need to happen, did a lot of damage to Xavier, and really only served to give us some insight into Vulcan, but it's just Vulcan, who really cares? No need to do that much harm to actually important characters for his sake. And in such a goofy, poorly explained way? AVX - This was just bad for X-Men fans and Avengers fans. It poisoned the Avengers to a lot of X-Fans, the event was badly written, the conflict was poorly explained and manufactured, and it had the X-Men lost in the wilderness for years after this. The ending of New X-Men - Yeah, my controversial pick, I can take the downvotes. Xornneto, Cyclops quitting somehow causing the downfall of all mutant kind, the sheer number of mutants, Jean dying for the next 15 years instead of this launching a Phoenix book in the cosmos were all just weird, bad decisions that I think hampered the X-Men a lot in the aftermath but people tend to just romanticize for nostalgia because this was most people's first read. The ending of New X-Men is what in part motivated Decimation, which was another horrible event. It put Marvel in a sticky position, not least of which was because of the conditions Morrison left under too.
I would have loved to see how Annihilation though Thanos Imperitive would have played out with Pheonix on the board
Idk