As Marvel editorial would say: "Fuck dem kids". They say the same thing to healthy relationships and character growth.
Val and Franklin will never know how good they had it.
Its not just that, we've all literally seen them grow across decades.
I mean, sure, their aging has been dodgy at times, but we've seen them go from babies to teens *on page.* That is incredible, tbh. And right now, they're having the time of their lives in North's beautiful FF run where they even have cousins(Jo and Nikki).
S tier life.
This is generally why I prefer to read outside of the 616 tbh. I wonder if Marvel will ever have a Crisis style event to clean up their greater continuity
May I ask why you're opposed to this? It's what allowed for a more streamlined version of the universe while reinvigorating classic characters into how we know them today
We wouldn't have superman's famous origin without Crisis after all, nor would we have Batman's either, or pretty much any of their iconic stories and mythic elements
Given that Brevoort's general attitude toward it has been "Hell no" and "Look at what it's done to DC" probably not. Loose continuity is better than DC's approach.
The current FF is, along with Hickman's USM, the most wholesome and delightful ongoing from Marvel, and maybe even the Big 2.
I finish each issue with a broad smile. North has been cooking a 5 star meal.
Would definitely recommend, it really captures the wholesome family vibe and has a buttload of science to boot where everyone is useful and creative to solve the problems at hand.
Uh no. They were a good deal older than before secret wars.
Their aging isn't always even but they've never been significantly aged up the way you're saying. They were a out around 10 and 7
T'challa fumbling storm was like watching a guy trip and fall, uncontested at the 99 yard line in the super bowl and lose the game by one point, in over time. It physically hurt to see him miss that hard.
T'Challa did not fumble Storm. Storm fumbled T'Challa. Namor, representing the X-Men, *drowned* Wakanda. And instead of immediately disowning and disavowing the X-Men for the intentional terrorist attack against the people she now ruled over, she tried to both sides the issue with THE KING OF HER NATION. And then IMMEDIATELY went and fucked Wolverine after abandoning her husband, her country and her people when T'Challa wouldn't swallow the bullshit.
Oh that's not true at all.
...she stole a sacred _sword_. The incredibly valuable and precious Wakandan Excalibur-ass sword that nobody thought to mention until just now
I just started reading X-men around messiah complex. Not super sure where to go from here after secret war. This sounds super interesting. Where would I start reading to get to this plot line?
This was in Avengers vs. X-Men from 2012, which kind of butchered all of the characters.
Basically, the Phoenix Force is coming back to Earth. The Avengers rightfully are afraid that it could lead to another Dark Phoenix situation, while the X-Men for some godforsaken reason believe the Phoenix will repopulate the planet with mutants. (They both end up being right.)
The Avengers use Stark Tech to attack the Phoenix Force, which splits itself into five pieces and takes five hosts; Cyclops, Magik, Colossus, Namor and Emma Frost.
At first, the Phoenix Five start making the world better; reseeding deserts, watering crops, etc. But then they start being corrupted by the power. And the Avengers start rebelling against this, while the X-Men blindly follow along.
I don’t remember exactly what happens, but Namor and T’Challa butt heads and so Namor decides to flood Wakanda, drowning thousands. Mind you, Wakanda is a landlocked country, I believe in current canon (thanks to the MCU) it’s around west of Ethiopia? So Namor went out of his way to create a tidal wave that affected multiple countries.
And then Storm was asked by T’Challa to side with their people against the X-Men. And she had the nerve to try to play Devil’s Advocate.
Namor flooding Wakanda in Wakanda Forever is literally an adaptation of this event.
Mind you, in 2012, Storm and T’Challa had been married for several years and she had joined the Avengers that same year as well. Overall I’d say her not denouncing the X-Men in that moment is the worst character beat in her entire history.
And the fact that in-universe the Wakandans all still love her and worship her as their Queen is insane to me because her and T’Challa visibly, publicly, PHYSICALLY fought over the Namor thing. That was when T’Challa annulled the marriage, after they traded blows. (Which… thank God?)
And even Marvel knows having Storm choose the Terrorist Five over Wakanda was a shit decision, because in every AU since, her and T’Challa are back together, and in every Black Panther series since, they’ve been tip-toeing around a reunion. Basically pulling a Spider-Man/Mary Jane will-they-won’t-they.
Seriously only Val, Franklin, and Danielle Cage are safe, and just barely at that. I mean did you see what happened to Gerry Drew, son of Spider-Woman?
I actually cannot believe what they did to Gerry. I mean, I can believe it, because its Marvel, but sheesh man.
I think Jo and Nikki are safe too. They're pretty new characters but I freaking love them.
What exactly is the healthy way of handling a baby in comics? They are literally not allowed to grow up without causing timescale problems. This or something like it was the fate ever since Jubilee snatched that baby from Budapest and gave him a Japanese name.
A teenage POV protagonist having crushes is not a huge leap in growth; plus add Byrne being Byrne and the 1980s being the 1980s.
Ilyana famously had to be kidnapped in order to go from being a child to being a teen.
Hope only got to grow up because of time travel.
Shogo was a terrible idea from the start. Jubilee just suddenly has an infant that conveniently isn’t biologically hers so the office can just divest her of him whenever necessary with minimal effort. When has she shown any interest in being a mother? It just reeked of just giving her a one sentence role since she’s been in the wind after her vampirism was cured. She was practically useless in Excalibur other than bringing shogo to provide the bus, and was far more fun in Xterminators when she felt more like Jubilee instead of single mom #4.
Kids in general are tough cause they’re either stuck as babies or you’re forced to age up the parents. That’s why there’s so many time shenanigans children in xmen especially but every comic lol. Franklin and Valeria are the only normal superhero kids that actually work without some bs retcon or time travel. Imo save them for AUs like the new ultimate Spider-Man or characters were being a parent is important to their character.
If you think about it, without the time travel, Cable would probably be around 8 years old now (which doesn't work because Leech exists, still is a kid while Franklin grew, so there is that)
The thing is these kids can age. You have Franklin and Valeria who are wonderful examples of it and they have a happy life in the current FF run but on the other you have Gerry who got hyper aged and turned into a Hydra Agent....poor Jess.
> You have Franklin and Valeria who are wonderful examples of it and they have a happy life in the current FF run
Frank and Val literally had to fuck off into the Multiverse for 10 off-panel years in order to age up into teenagers. (Which is funny, because Reed and Sue don't seem to have aged AT ALL.)
10? Wasn't it 5? I think it was stated as being 5.
Franklin was around 9 before secret wars and Val maybe 4-5, now Franklin is 15 and Val 12-13, which....
I'm referring to them actually having a (somewhat) normal life in North's run, that's all. Before that yeah...you're right. I think the closest Reed got to looking his age is the beard. Sad that he shaved it though.
FF was a case of, “anything else we could do with these characters is kinda lame, let’s just lean into the family thing”. As much as fans want the superficial trappings of “character growth”, the reality would be a Marvel universe where every series is just characters navigating daycares and doctor visits and “Nathan needs braces” and “sorry I don’t have time to be an Avenger, my kid caught a cold”.
And that’s without factoring in that about 1/4 of the titles would be, “Ever since we had May, Peter’s grown distant, spends more time being Spider-Man, and sometimes it feels like he’s not attracted to me anymore. Like was my body supposed to snap back to the way it was before?” and, “Every time Remy have a rough day bein an X-Man, he just wanna vent a little, but Rogue always gotta diminish it, like, ‘Nothin compared to bein an X-Man, AND givin birth to our child’. Ain’t acting like that ain’t true, but Remy just feel like he got nobody to relate to anymore”.
I don’t think comic fans want everything getting that much more mature. Sometimes it feels like a lot of the clamoring is just wanting a “playing house” version of these characters growing up. They want the smiling family photos, but the every day, nitty gritty of family dynamics are, in an action/adventure genre, a mixture of boring and depressing.
For sure. There is an untapped market for domestic comedy. I’d even love some grounded dark family drama about couples splitting over normal human problems and adolescent/adult children processing grief and trauma related to their upbringing without a tidy, airtight, “hug it out with mom and dad” ending. But the former could only really succeed as a niche and the latter would be polarizing and controversial if not wildly unpopular(especially with the online types).
To be fair, I can’t think of any mutant parent that raised their child.
Mystique with Nightcrawler
Any of the Summers kids
Any of Wolverine’s kids
Most mutant children just pop up later as a teen/adult and surprise everyone
Scott and Jean spent a decade+ raising Cable.
...k there was time travel and cloned bodies and Rachel in a coma and a whole thing w Apocalypse involved, but still.
COMICS!
I mean, that was literally a plot point on Krakoa, before promptly being dropped. A bunch of mutants had kids and then immediately abandoned them at the Krakoa nursery.
Yeah, ironically their plot about abandoned baby mutants got abandoned. It was a shame how Legion of X stuff in general didn’t get to really take root or shine.
Well she got Shogo while she was still a vampire, and I think it had potential and just wasn't used properly. Jubilee kinda had that title of the kid of the X-men. Everyone's little sister. So her growing up and going through her own struggles and being on her own is interesting. She kinda shows this growth and maturity in deciding to take care and nurture of this kid with no where else to go, much like she was.
Kids in comics should always have an endgame, because they are an ongoing problem. You want to time travel them? Sure. I'm fine wiith that. I get the medium doesn't allow for normal aging, so you have to do something. Don't just introduce them and punt the problem though. That's how you end up with abandoned dragons.
I honestly hated it. She'd been through so many bad things that then she was handicapped with a kid that wasn't hers so it was permanent babysitting duty.
As if the depowering/vampiring/whatever hadn't tanked her character enough.
The only thing I liked about Jubilee over the past couple years .was the x-terminators and her relationship with Chamber. Everything else seemed wasted or a big WTF painted themselves in a corner there .
Maybe he just prefers being a dragon?
I think the idea was kind of interesting, but it became clear the writers had no idea how to handle it, and with '97 and '90s nostalgia back in general, there was nothing to do done for him. She should have found a good foster family for him, but at least as a dragon he can technically pop back into the story.
Fully grown with a dragon eye and a dragon arm and and humongous sword and a complicated backstory involving magic and time travel and an evil overlord and I dunno, Wolverine, somehow (any Wolverine).
I kind of want them to do this and lean right in on the Cable jokes the whole time. Then have him go track down Piotr and Logan's Savage Land kids and Rhane's half-god kid and Kwannon's digital daughter and any other ignored x-babies out there and form a team and call it the RejeX or Ex-X-Babies or the Xpelled....
Poor Shogo. Kid never had a prayer.
He'll probably pull a Cable and show up full grown with a dragon eye and a metal arm in Excalibur #1 (vol 23) (2031) or whatever.
funny thing is Superman has had way more than 3 adopted/biological children at this point but a bunch of them have fallen to the wayside because comics
Because of the sliding time scale, Babies are ultimately a bad idea. Shogo was a a great thing for Jubes for a minute, but glad he gets to spend awhile as a dragon. Best thing that could happen to both of them.
They gotta find a way to age him up so that it's not an issue anymore. My hope is that Shogo comes back after this as a teenager and finds some young superhero team to join or something.
I want a future mutant group to show up and beat the X-Men one day and then come to find out they are all orphans mutants abandoned in Krakoa or somewhere.
Jubilee is like, in the ballpark of 24, which makes Kitty like in the range of 26. It's weird how they're presented at that age, and then we have editorial that the first class members aren't 30 yet lol
Nah it's crazy when you think about it. Scott was around 19 when the X-Men first went into space and maybe 25 at the start of the Blue/Gold era.
They grew up fast.
When you think about it some more, people like Iceman make a lot more sense. Iceman would've just turned 30 so all those years of underachievement and irresponsibility can be chalked up as the regular shenanigans of a twentysomething.
According to Marvel's sliding time scale, Jubilee is 22, Kitty is 24-25 and the O5 are all somewhere between 30 and 35
…well, physically that is. Scott and Jean are psychologically in their mid 40s; their minds spent 12 years in the future raising Cable.
Isn't Jubilee like, 18 or something in-story at this point? No hate meant to young parents but I'm very skeptical of her just being allowed to keep a baby she found. On top of that her character was never the paragon of maturity. It always seemed bizarre and just bad writing to me to just suddenly make her Single Teen Mother of the Year overnight.
Okay *that's* what gets to me. Those characters really shouldn't be that old this soon. If they're early to mid-20s then the original New Mutants would have to be pushing 30 and I don't think they want the core X-Men being aged up that much by comparison. Of course it's all a sliding timeline for fictional characters so it doesn't really need to make sense.
The Academy X characters were introduced a year or two after Generation X ended so they would all be more or less the same age range I guess. But like, some definition would help. How many years were supposed to have passed between New Mutants and Generation X?
Aging is a nonsense in marval and the mutans. When corsair comeback to the earth during the early 80 he say he was absence for 20 years, in the flashbakc when scott and alex jump in a parachute Scoot dont look older than 6, so he should have 26 by that point, kitty was 14 and jubilee is even younger than kitty, and writer seem to portray scott at like 28-29 in this days so nothing have sense since kitty also seem to have that age when she shuld be way younger than Scott. So yeah, just ignore everything and everyone never pass their 30s XD
New Mutants ended in 1991 and became X-Force that same year. With the exception of Karma who was significantly older than the others, the New Mutants are all the same age. By the time X-Force hits the shelves, they act and look as if they were all around 16-18.
Generation X started in 1994. They were all said to be around the same age at this point: between 14 and 17.
According to Marvel's sliding time scale, **there is only one year separating the graduation day of the New Mutants and Generation X's first day of school.**
Sam Guthrie was 16 when he first appeared in 1983 and Jubilee was 14 in 1989. That means at the time of Jubilee's introduction, Sam was 17 going on 18. By 1991, Sam would've only *just* turned 18 and Jubilee would've been looking at 15.
Using those two as reference points, I think it's safe to say that **the New Mutants are about 3 years older than Generation X.** This tracks as Jubilee (shown to be the more worldly and wise of Generation X) is around 17 when Academy X is first enrolled and Wolfsbane (the youngest of the New Mutants) is pushing 20 during the days of Academy X.
I guess that's the funny thing about having powers that activate during puberty. It's a such mixed bag. One kid learns he is a mutant at 12 and begins training in the use of his powers everyday. Another kid born the same exact year as the first kid doesn't develop mutant powers until age 17. They are the same age but they are not peers. The one who discovered his powers at 12 might as well be a full-fledged member of the X-Men by age 17
In the real world, Jubilee and the oldest of the Academy X kids would be eating lunch in the high school cafeteria at the same time. And the O5 are only about 5 years older than the New Mutants even though there is 20 years between the first O5 story and the first New Mutants story.
I think she's actually pretty close to the Academy X kids, in House Of X she went to the same school as most of them and was best friends with Sooraya so she's probably a year or two older tops
Jubilee's 18th birthday party took place during the vampire era. I think it's safe to say that she's a full grown adult at this point, of ambiguous age.
You raised a great question. What happened to all those children? Like you know, the mutant babies that were abandoned and taken care of by Stacy X they just gone now? Were these people just birthing babies and then leaving them? There's so many questions I have about that whole situation that I didn't question right off the back. Like I know Krakoa was wild but did they also abandon all their ethics too?
It was a really weak plot point that undermined having the concept of Krakoa rather than giving it more depth. Why would an ultra progressive nation that isn't constrained by human norms have so many unwanted pregnancies?
Kids usually ruin characters. The universe doesn't age so neither can the kids through normal means which means Jubilee would be stuck with a toddler she found indefinitely.
Turning him into a dragon is Tini Howard's best contribution to X-Lore. She fixed Jubilee.
You know, between this, the Various Summers children and the Mutant babies left on the beach, I'm pretty sure the only good Mutant Parent is Logan with no contest
The parenting is the only matter Max and Charles totally agree. "Favour the daughter(s) and ignore the son". They both even said to their sons that they wouldn't resurrecte them
He isn’t exactly a shining beacon of dad-ly wisdom, no. Never has been. But he is one helluva good teacher. When he gets his head on straight. Which isn’t gonna happen anytime soon. Charles *broke* psychologically, for a lot of reasons. Fear of no longer being relevant, not trained or suited to nation building, isolated and lonely, the very tenets that made him a good man (forgiveness, second chances, trusting others) led to crappy decisions. He has abandoned all that for an icy pragmatism. He has turned his back on humanity and on God and he will use anyone he can to keep mutants alive. So yeah. No parental hero cookies for Charles. I will say, though.. he did try to help David. Tried and failed.
1.- He didn't know the Mongrels were his
2.- Daken was a little bitch raised by Romulus. He got better after he came back from the dead. He needed some whooping
He’s been better with Laura than any of his other kids. Sure he still allowed her fresh off teenage prostitution and decimation/198 to join a black ops murder squad when she was trying to sort out getting away from all the killing and finding who she was away from being a living weapon, but he did protest it and has tried to patch things up with Daken since. Plus Old Man Logan raised two good kids until they got Hulked
Logan kinda killed 50 of his children + daken so no, Scott and Jean still wins due to actually raising nathan in the future
edit: they weren't 50, still, he killed them
I think they're referring to the Mongrels, which were several children of Logan's that Daken found and recruited to fight Wolverine. Logan eventually killed them, of course, but only found out they were his children *after* he killed most of them (the rest committed suicide). Daken and the Mongrels set it up that way so that Logan would be riddled with guilt over what he did and not be able to do anything about it.
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Mongrels_(Earth-616)
I agree, the story was really messed up. I know writers love to heap on the angst and pain for Logan, but that story just felt wrong to me on several levels. Jason Aaron was the writer on this story if you really want a face to blame for this.
Logan is not peak, what are you smoking? He's murdered most of his children, dropped the ball multiple times with Laura, and has acknowledged Gabby's existence enough to count on one hand. Scott has tried really hard to be there for his kids despite the circumstances, so I would put him above Logan every time.
Jubilee as an adoptive mother was Never a good idea. she's had so much shit thrown at her. "uhh, she loses her powers on M-Day" why? fuckin why? did they roll dice? so stupid. "uhh, she joins the new warriors with stupid new gear" i would've accepted this if she was written in any way to be similar to her usual character, but she may as well have been a new character for the lack of personification any of those people got in that waste of a series. "uhh, she becomes a vampire." fine, okay, let's do the vampire thing, that could be interest-- oh, they've already given up on that, nobody is referencing it, it's just under the rug, okay. "uhh, she finds a baby and adopts it." why not. they've done everything else to her, except make her a god, why not take this route? "the baby's in the way, it shapeshifts into a dragon and she leaves it in the fantasy world." that fantasy world sucks and the baby becoming a talking dragon is beyond stupid. it's so beyond stupid.
I do hope they use this as an excuse to Magik style age Shogo up. He's using full sentences telepathically instead of pictures so he clearly has grown. Having him be Franklin Richards' age with maybe some Otherworld magic would be fun and make him a viable character
Or she could’ve stayed in otherworld…X-terminators, and/ or blue team nostalgia aside: there were plenty of other mutants to take her place: especially since it’s been reduced to: “where is shogo?” “I was a vampire once” for the last bunch of years
Damn, I didn't think the response to Shogo would be so negative in here. At the time, like would I have like given Jubilee a child? No, probably not, but I still like Shogo. I don't have a problem with him sticking around and Jubilee being his adoptive mom. Like yeah he would add a story constraint when someone would want to use Jubilee, but like idk, you could find a babysitter or something if you don't want to focus on Jubilee being a mom; then you could also have fun baby sitting adventures with like Shogo and Gabby or something, idk, just spit-balling. Marvel in general really doesn't like giving characters kids though, and if they do they really try going out of their way to write them out or age them up. Look at what just happened to Gerry Drew for instance.
I mean — I have no beef with the fictional child.
It does feel like a pretty big burden to place on the character, that either forces the character to change an aspect of her personality that has been pretty integral to who she is (her goofy irresponsibility) or be a bad parent.
And there’s nothing wrong with character growth, but that dramatic of growth seems kinda like if there was a change in which Bruce Wayne took up a career in stand up comedy. The writers need to either have Bruce Wayne develop a sense of humor over night, or have him be a bad stand up comic … and even in that example, it isn’t as bad — because if Bruce Wayne is a crappy stand up comic, people won’t see that as an indictment of the indictment of his moral character. Bruce Wayne trying and failing to be funny could even make him more likable as it can be endearing to see someone who is so gifted fail.
Whereas, if a character turns out to be an irresponsible parent, then they are considered a bad person. No one finds someone failing at being a good parent endearing.
So the writers have to either make big ol’ changes in Jubilee’s established personality, or keep her the goofy firecracker with a mouth and heart bigger than her brain — and risk character assassination as more and more people will start asking why she is risking life and limb when she is the only person alive that this baby is counting on to keep living.
I mean I see what you are saying but I don't know that I agree. Jubilee had done some maturing by that point and wasn't really the same irresponsible teen, so I don't think it was really such a huge leap for the character by that point as you suggest. A lot of this is from memory as I don't feel like rereading it all, so apologies if I get some details wrong, but:
She had multiple close friends die in / right after Generation X and so she had taken a step back and was going to figure herself out for a bit and what she wanted to do going forward. She tried to go live with her surviving aunt and go back to school but then her aunt died (well she didn't actually die but Jubilee thought she had). She returned briefly but then lost her powers from M-day then had a short stint as a political activist. Then she ran like a safehouse for depowered mutants in the wake of M-day. Then she took a leadership role in the new New Warriors (as the #2 / lieutenant). Following that up is when she was made a vampire. Being a vampire like forced her as a character like another layer of responsibility in that now also had to be very careful / responsible about controlling her hunger for blood and vampire urges. Then finally Shogo happened. Like I said given everything above I don't think she was quite that irresponsible teen anymore. I also think that the additional responsibility with Shogo possibly did / could kind of synergize thematically with the control / responsibility / carefulness that vampirism already forced upon her.
That is by no means to say that each story mentioned above was like a great choice or well written, I actually think quite a bit of it is pretty bad from what I recall, but my point still stands imo.
I found it odd that she got sidelined while other heroes that have children have been able to successfully maintain their hero status. Jessica Drew Jessica Jones The invisible woman. Those are not there I can think of actually but still leaving him the multiverse was just weird
Nah, fuck Shogo. They've done Jubilee so dirty since post House of M.
* Depowered
* Joined the New Warriors
* Became a Vampire
* Took care of a kid that wasn't her.
Just awful character growth.
I am inclined to agree that she’s had some lame storylines — but ya know —- she at least has storylines ? Like, I became a big fan of hers during Generation X, and seeing how some of the other Gen X alums have faired, I feel ungrateful to complain.
Making her a single teen mom does feel kinda lame … Like, it forces the character to either be super irresponsible and neglectful, constantly putting this innocent baby’s life in danger — or basically retired from the action of the comics.
I've never been a big fan of superheroes having kids anyway. There are some exceptions to the rule but usually you just get stuck in a loop of the hero constantly having to rescue the kid from something and that's just really boring
The Tini Howard run of titles made me block those events in my memory, including the illogical Shogo and Dragon form fiasco.
Betsy, Rictor, Rogue, Gambit, Shogo, Meggan, Brian, Rachel, Kwannon, etc were done wrong with the fantasy fan fic turned canon.
I don't know what you're talking about, Nathan was born in the 80s and we've seen him in his 20s with Young Cable, 30s with X-Man, and now 50s. It's the circle of life!
During her Vampire era she ended up caring for an abandoned child that had some Sublime thing going on. After that was dealt with she began taking care of them and even got official adoption papers.
Thanks!
Thats a lot of lore to digest 😂 not that up to date with the comics since the distribution where I live is really weird, but just got me even more intrigued about everything x-men comics related
My theory is that they needed her to be "young" again, because that is the status quo, Jubes is one of the youngest X-Men members and she having a kid would alter that image ""we"" have of her, but that's just stupid I mean that was one of the best development they gave her character since she became a Vampire a decade ago.
Jubilee hasn’t had a good arc since Generation X. She could have been the next Kitty Pride, with her being a “sidekick” to wolverine, being famous on the Animated Series, and having a group made with her as the first student… (come on, she even made out with robin and got on Amalgam!!)… but instead they decided that they’d make her a vampire, or a mother to a human baby she just found in a mission (I know I read that but I just remember something on a train I cannot remember why she thought it was a good idea to just keep the kid). Then they teased the kid to be somehow like “iron lad”, leading the xmen of the future and then he turns into a dragon? Nope, just get rid of the kid, the vampirism, and realize that GenX might need a revival as they did with “New Mutants”.
I stopped reading comics for a long time, then picked up an issue one time and saw Storm and Jubilee arguing about being a vampire and it was a permanent change.. Stupidest thing I ever heard.
I'm just kind of like "Okay so she's a mutant again...what are you going to do with it?" and they just keep going "lets... keep on doing dumb things with her that undo pretty much everything that happened when she was a vamp or make it seem like she's not caring about them"... I just kind of wish they kept her vamp at this point and gave HER the storyline they've given Kitty during the Age of X story of her not being able to use the portals.
As Marvel editorial would say: "Fuck dem kids". They say the same thing to healthy relationships and character growth. Val and Franklin will never know how good they had it.
They disappear with Sue and Reed for a good couple years. Prior to that they had Hickman. You're right they did have it good.
Its not just that, we've all literally seen them grow across decades. I mean, sure, their aging has been dodgy at times, but we've seen them go from babies to teens *on page.* That is incredible, tbh. And right now, they're having the time of their lives in North's beautiful FF run where they even have cousins(Jo and Nikki). S tier life.
FF might be the only ones to get away with this because at their core they've always been a family book.
Also, Franklin was introduced in the 60s, back when the status quo could still change permanently.
This is generally why I prefer to read outside of the 616 tbh. I wonder if Marvel will ever have a Crisis style event to clean up their greater continuity
>wonder if Marvel will ever have a Crisis style event to clean up their greater continuity God, I hope not
May I ask why you're opposed to this? It's what allowed for a more streamlined version of the universe while reinvigorating classic characters into how we know them today We wouldn't have superman's famous origin without Crisis after all, nor would we have Batman's either, or pretty much any of their iconic stories and mythic elements
Given that Brevoort's general attitude toward it has been "Hell no" and "Look at what it's done to DC" probably not. Loose continuity is better than DC's approach.
See I thought that's what Time Runs Out was supposed to be as I'm sure many others did...boy howdy I was wrong
One thing Marvel Has over DC is more organized continuity, Alt Universes like the Ultimate Universes serve the purpose of a different continuity
I know this is an X-Men sub but I really love the current FF
The current FF is, along with Hickman's USM, the most wholesome and delightful ongoing from Marvel, and maybe even the Big 2. I finish each issue with a broad smile. North has been cooking a 5 star meal.
I may have to check that out. With my marvel unlimited subscription. I stepped away for the most part after Byrne.
Would definitely recommend, it really captures the wholesome family vibe and has a buttload of science to boot where everyone is useful and creative to solve the problems at hand.
I wonder if Hickman ever wrote for Star Trek in some capacity. He certainly knows how to do epic sci-fi.
I need to go back to Hickman’s run and read to current. Next paycheck I’m finally getting a subscription to Marvel Unlimited.
We saw them as 5 and 3 and then they were gone and came back as teenagers
Uh no. They were a good deal older than before secret wars. Their aging isn't always even but they've never been significantly aged up the way you're saying. They were a out around 10 and 7
T'challa fumbling storm was like watching a guy trip and fall, uncontested at the 99 yard line in the super bowl and lose the game by one point, in over time. It physically hurt to see him miss that hard.
T'Challa did not fumble Storm. Storm fumbled T'Challa. Namor, representing the X-Men, *drowned* Wakanda. And instead of immediately disowning and disavowing the X-Men for the intentional terrorist attack against the people she now ruled over, she tried to both sides the issue with THE KING OF HER NATION. And then IMMEDIATELY went and fucked Wolverine after abandoning her husband, her country and her people when T'Challa wouldn't swallow the bullshit.
Then she went back and stole a sacred dagger lmao
Oh that's not true at all. ...she stole a sacred _sword_. The incredibly valuable and precious Wakandan Excalibur-ass sword that nobody thought to mention until just now
LOL good catch
I love Ororo but when it comes to Wakanda, she truly ain't shit.
Man no wonder T'Challa annulled her ass. Very deserving.
Kinda weird she went right to logan afterwards too lol
I have become Logan, destroyer of the marriages.
I just started reading X-men around messiah complex. Not super sure where to go from here after secret war. This sounds super interesting. Where would I start reading to get to this plot line?
This was in Avengers vs. X-Men from 2012, which kind of butchered all of the characters. Basically, the Phoenix Force is coming back to Earth. The Avengers rightfully are afraid that it could lead to another Dark Phoenix situation, while the X-Men for some godforsaken reason believe the Phoenix will repopulate the planet with mutants. (They both end up being right.) The Avengers use Stark Tech to attack the Phoenix Force, which splits itself into five pieces and takes five hosts; Cyclops, Magik, Colossus, Namor and Emma Frost. At first, the Phoenix Five start making the world better; reseeding deserts, watering crops, etc. But then they start being corrupted by the power. And the Avengers start rebelling against this, while the X-Men blindly follow along. I don’t remember exactly what happens, but Namor and T’Challa butt heads and so Namor decides to flood Wakanda, drowning thousands. Mind you, Wakanda is a landlocked country, I believe in current canon (thanks to the MCU) it’s around west of Ethiopia? So Namor went out of his way to create a tidal wave that affected multiple countries. And then Storm was asked by T’Challa to side with their people against the X-Men. And she had the nerve to try to play Devil’s Advocate. Namor flooding Wakanda in Wakanda Forever is literally an adaptation of this event. Mind you, in 2012, Storm and T’Challa had been married for several years and she had joined the Avengers that same year as well. Overall I’d say her not denouncing the X-Men in that moment is the worst character beat in her entire history. And the fact that in-universe the Wakandans all still love her and worship her as their Queen is insane to me because her and T’Challa visibly, publicly, PHYSICALLY fought over the Namor thing. That was when T’Challa annulled the marriage, after they traded blows. (Which… thank God?) And even Marvel knows having Storm choose the Terrorist Five over Wakanda was a shit decision, because in every AU since, her and T’Challa are back together, and in every Black Panther series since, they’ve been tip-toeing around a reunion. Basically pulling a Spider-Man/Mary Jane will-they-won’t-they.
In all honesty, Marvel fumbled Storm.
Seriously only Val, Franklin, and Danielle Cage are safe, and just barely at that. I mean did you see what happened to Gerry Drew, son of Spider-Woman?
I actually cannot believe what they did to Gerry. I mean, I can believe it, because its Marvel, but sheesh man. I think Jo and Nikki are safe too. They're pretty new characters but I freaking love them.
Dani's age has flip-flopped so hard, she may as well be a pair of sandals.
True, in universe she should rightfully be like four or five by now.
What happened to Gerry Drew?
Disappeared from everyone's memory except Jessica's(and Spider-Boy's) and then re-appeared as an adult man brainwashed by Hydra.
Fuck Spider-Boy. There’s too many Spiders for my dudes Ben and Kane, but not too many for a new Spider.
Spider-Boy is actually okay. It proves that, it is the writer and execution that is the problem
It’s just the age-old tradition of spider kids getting screwed over.
🤐 some things, are better left unsaid.
Did people actually like Gerry Drew?
Truly bonkers.
What exactly is the healthy way of handling a baby in comics? They are literally not allowed to grow up without causing timescale problems. This or something like it was the fate ever since Jubilee snatched that baby from Budapest and gave him a Japanese name.
It didn’t take many years - months for 13 year old kitty to be sexualized. Or wonder girl
A teenage POV protagonist having crushes is not a huge leap in growth; plus add Byrne being Byrne and the 1980s being the 1980s. Ilyana famously had to be kidnapped in order to go from being a child to being a teen. Hope only got to grow up because of time travel.
More all Claremont. Byrne often complained about it. He’s
they’re the same editors who regularly publish massive school deaths so like… what did we expect
Those were different editors.
well then same company
Shogo was a terrible idea from the start. Jubilee just suddenly has an infant that conveniently isn’t biologically hers so the office can just divest her of him whenever necessary with minimal effort. When has she shown any interest in being a mother? It just reeked of just giving her a one sentence role since she’s been in the wind after her vampirism was cured. She was practically useless in Excalibur other than bringing shogo to provide the bus, and was far more fun in Xterminators when she felt more like Jubilee instead of single mom #4.
Kids in general are tough cause they’re either stuck as babies or you’re forced to age up the parents. That’s why there’s so many time shenanigans children in xmen especially but every comic lol. Franklin and Valeria are the only normal superhero kids that actually work without some bs retcon or time travel. Imo save them for AUs like the new ultimate Spider-Man or characters were being a parent is important to their character.
If you think about it, without the time travel, Cable would probably be around 8 years old now (which doesn't work because Leech exists, still is a kid while Franklin grew, so there is that)
Poor Artie and Leech. Never getting to kick it with Franklin anymore. They need more adventures together.
The O5 really should go back to raising them again, take advantage of Heir of Apocalypse to steal the blue guy ship again.
The thing is these kids can age. You have Franklin and Valeria who are wonderful examples of it and they have a happy life in the current FF run but on the other you have Gerry who got hyper aged and turned into a Hydra Agent....poor Jess.
> You have Franklin and Valeria who are wonderful examples of it and they have a happy life in the current FF run Frank and Val literally had to fuck off into the Multiverse for 10 off-panel years in order to age up into teenagers. (Which is funny, because Reed and Sue don't seem to have aged AT ALL.)
10? Wasn't it 5? I think it was stated as being 5. Franklin was around 9 before secret wars and Val maybe 4-5, now Franklin is 15 and Val 12-13, which....
I'm referring to them actually having a (somewhat) normal life in North's run, that's all. Before that yeah...you're right. I think the closest Reed got to looking his age is the beard. Sad that he shaved it though.
Wasn't that more for Fantastic Four Fox/Disney Promotional Tie-In BS stuff?
They did have accelerated aging when Franklin was recreating the multiverse.
FF was a case of, “anything else we could do with these characters is kinda lame, let’s just lean into the family thing”. As much as fans want the superficial trappings of “character growth”, the reality would be a Marvel universe where every series is just characters navigating daycares and doctor visits and “Nathan needs braces” and “sorry I don’t have time to be an Avenger, my kid caught a cold”. And that’s without factoring in that about 1/4 of the titles would be, “Ever since we had May, Peter’s grown distant, spends more time being Spider-Man, and sometimes it feels like he’s not attracted to me anymore. Like was my body supposed to snap back to the way it was before?” and, “Every time Remy have a rough day bein an X-Man, he just wanna vent a little, but Rogue always gotta diminish it, like, ‘Nothin compared to bein an X-Man, AND givin birth to our child’. Ain’t acting like that ain’t true, but Remy just feel like he got nobody to relate to anymore”. I don’t think comic fans want everything getting that much more mature. Sometimes it feels like a lot of the clamoring is just wanting a “playing house” version of these characters growing up. They want the smiling family photos, but the every day, nitty gritty of family dynamics are, in an action/adventure genre, a mixture of boring and depressing.
To be honest, Squirrel Girl and the Baby-Sitters for Hire is a book I would read.
For sure. There is an untapped market for domestic comedy. I’d even love some grounded dark family drama about couples splitting over normal human problems and adolescent/adult children processing grief and trauma related to their upbringing without a tidy, airtight, “hug it out with mom and dad” ending. But the former could only really succeed as a niche and the latter would be polarizing and controversial if not wildly unpopular(especially with the online types).
To be fair, I can’t think of any mutant parent that raised their child. Mystique with Nightcrawler Any of the Summers kids Any of Wolverine’s kids Most mutant children just pop up later as a teen/adult and surprise everyone
Scott and Jean spent a decade+ raising Cable. ...k there was time travel and cloned bodies and Rachel in a coma and a whole thing w Apocalypse involved, but still. COMICS!
Make more mutants! (and then abandon them!)
I mean, that was literally a plot point on Krakoa, before promptly being dropped. A bunch of mutants had kids and then immediately abandoned them at the Krakoa nursery.
Yeah, ironically their plot about abandoned baby mutants got abandoned. It was a shame how Legion of X stuff in general didn’t get to really take root or shine.
Well she got Shogo while she was still a vampire, and I think it had potential and just wasn't used properly. Jubilee kinda had that title of the kid of the X-men. Everyone's little sister. So her growing up and going through her own struggles and being on her own is interesting. She kinda shows this growth and maturity in deciding to take care and nurture of this kid with no where else to go, much like she was.
Kids in comics should always have an endgame, because they are an ongoing problem. You want to time travel them? Sure. I'm fine wiith that. I get the medium doesn't allow for normal aging, so you have to do something. Don't just introduce them and punt the problem though. That's how you end up with abandoned dragons.
I honestly hated it. She'd been through so many bad things that then she was handicapped with a kid that wasn't hers so it was permanent babysitting duty. As if the depowering/vampiring/whatever hadn't tanked her character enough.
The only thing I liked about Jubilee over the past couple years .was the x-terminators and her relationship with Chamber. Everything else seemed wasted or a big WTF painted themselves in a corner there .
Her and Chamber were so good in the newer Generation X were such a good couple.
It was a weird ass plotline to begin with.
Yeah it was like oh yeah and jubilee has a baby. Don’t ask how.
Maybe he just prefers being a dragon? I think the idea was kind of interesting, but it became clear the writers had no idea how to handle it, and with '97 and '90s nostalgia back in general, there was nothing to do done for him. She should have found a good foster family for him, but at least as a dragon he can technically pop back into the story.
Fully grown with a dragon eye and a dragon arm and and humongous sword and a complicated backstory involving magic and time travel and an evil overlord and I dunno, Wolverine, somehow (any Wolverine).
So joking aside and some of the details leveled out, this is probably legitimately the best thing they could do with him.
I kind of want them to do this and lean right in on the Cable jokes the whole time. Then have him go track down Piotr and Logan's Savage Land kids and Rhane's half-god kid and Kwannon's digital daughter and any other ignored x-babies out there and form a team and call it the RejeX or Ex-X-Babies or the Xpelled....
All the Wolverines go bad in the future and become the evil warlord clan he comes back to stop with Jubilee torn between both sides
Maybe.
Did her relationship with Chamber end? I kinda missed it.
Its entirely ambiguous post the last Generation X comic.
They had a picnic in a Voices book a while ago, and nothing since. It’s just been forgotten.
Poor Shogo. Kid never had a prayer. He'll probably pull a Cable and show up full grown with a dragon eye and a metal arm in Excalibur #1 (vol 23) (2031) or whatever.
Preordering now.
I'd actually say most fans are Spongebob and Patrick about ditching the baby
What's up with Mutant baby's being left behind. Is it that common?
Not just mutants. Its a marvel issue.
Long running superhero comics issue (Savage Dragon might be the only one that doesn't have this issue, but has many other issues).
You say this, but batman has 5 children, and Superman has 3
funny thing is Superman has had way more than 3 adopted/biological children at this point but a bunch of them have fallen to the wayside because comics
Not so much children but sidekicks, which is a very different ball game (and Superman has a few lost to time)
Invincible actually had kids and growth, but they did time skip over the kid's early years.
Because of the sliding time scale, Babies are ultimately a bad idea. Shogo was a a great thing for Jubes for a minute, but glad he gets to spend awhile as a dragon. Best thing that could happen to both of them.
Good BYE to that child and may it stay that way. A terrible idea.
They gotta find a way to age him up so that it's not an issue anymore. My hope is that Shogo comes back after this as a teenager and finds some young superhero team to join or something.
I want a future mutant group to show up and beat the X-Men one day and then come to find out they are all orphans mutants abandoned in Krakoa or somewhere.
Tbf he was really cute as a dragon.
Jubilee can't have an adopted son! She's like 14, right? ...Right?
Jubilee is like, in the ballpark of 24, which makes Kitty like in the range of 26. It's weird how they're presented at that age, and then we have editorial that the first class members aren't 30 yet lol
See, I feel like Cyclops has been 45 for at least the last 30 years or so. comic time is weird.
I feel like Scotty has been spiritually 45 since he was like 7
Nah it's crazy when you think about it. Scott was around 19 when the X-Men first went into space and maybe 25 at the start of the Blue/Gold era. They grew up fast. When you think about it some more, people like Iceman make a lot more sense. Iceman would've just turned 30 so all those years of underachievement and irresponsibility can be chalked up as the regular shenanigans of a twentysomething.
According to Marvel's sliding time scale, Jubilee is 22, Kitty is 24-25 and the O5 are all somewhere between 30 and 35 …well, physically that is. Scott and Jean are psychologically in their mid 40s; their minds spent 12 years in the future raising Cable.
They should’ve never gave her that random kid/trash young mom storyline in the 1st place so I’m happy to never have him mention again 🤷🏿♂️
It was a.bad idea for her to have an adopted kid imo, but they did a bad job writing him out.
Sorry but what are we going to do, have an mutant, let alone an X-Men be an attentive, present parent? To a SON?? That's just not how things are done.
Isn't Jubilee like, 18 or something in-story at this point? No hate meant to young parents but I'm very skeptical of her just being allowed to keep a baby she found. On top of that her character was never the paragon of maturity. It always seemed bizarre and just bad writing to me to just suddenly make her Single Teen Mother of the Year overnight.
Jubilee is older than the Academy X kids who have been more or less portrayed as early twenties nowadays. She's at least in her mid twenties.
Okay *that's* what gets to me. Those characters really shouldn't be that old this soon. If they're early to mid-20s then the original New Mutants would have to be pushing 30 and I don't think they want the core X-Men being aged up that much by comparison. Of course it's all a sliding timeline for fictional characters so it doesn't really need to make sense. The Academy X characters were introduced a year or two after Generation X ended so they would all be more or less the same age range I guess. But like, some definition would help. How many years were supposed to have passed between New Mutants and Generation X?
The answer honestly changes depending on who you ask.
Aging is a nonsense in marval and the mutans. When corsair comeback to the earth during the early 80 he say he was absence for 20 years, in the flashbakc when scott and alex jump in a parachute Scoot dont look older than 6, so he should have 26 by that point, kitty was 14 and jubilee is even younger than kitty, and writer seem to portray scott at like 28-29 in this days so nothing have sense since kitty also seem to have that age when she shuld be way younger than Scott. So yeah, just ignore everything and everyone never pass their 30s XD
New Mutants ended in 1991 and became X-Force that same year. With the exception of Karma who was significantly older than the others, the New Mutants are all the same age. By the time X-Force hits the shelves, they act and look as if they were all around 16-18. Generation X started in 1994. They were all said to be around the same age at this point: between 14 and 17. According to Marvel's sliding time scale, **there is only one year separating the graduation day of the New Mutants and Generation X's first day of school.** Sam Guthrie was 16 when he first appeared in 1983 and Jubilee was 14 in 1989. That means at the time of Jubilee's introduction, Sam was 17 going on 18. By 1991, Sam would've only *just* turned 18 and Jubilee would've been looking at 15. Using those two as reference points, I think it's safe to say that **the New Mutants are about 3 years older than Generation X.** This tracks as Jubilee (shown to be the more worldly and wise of Generation X) is around 17 when Academy X is first enrolled and Wolfsbane (the youngest of the New Mutants) is pushing 20 during the days of Academy X. I guess that's the funny thing about having powers that activate during puberty. It's a such mixed bag. One kid learns he is a mutant at 12 and begins training in the use of his powers everyday. Another kid born the same exact year as the first kid doesn't develop mutant powers until age 17. They are the same age but they are not peers. The one who discovered his powers at 12 might as well be a full-fledged member of the X-Men by age 17 In the real world, Jubilee and the oldest of the Academy X kids would be eating lunch in the high school cafeteria at the same time. And the O5 are only about 5 years older than the New Mutants even though there is 20 years between the first O5 story and the first New Mutants story.
I think she's actually pretty close to the Academy X kids, in House Of X she went to the same school as most of them and was best friends with Sooraya so she's probably a year or two older tops
Yeah, now that I reflect on it, a year or two older makes more sense.
Jubilee's 18th birthday party took place during the vampire era. I think it's safe to say that she's a full grown adult at this point, of ambiguous age.
According to the sliding time scale, she's 22
Speaknfor your self i hated that baby it was an anchor on jubilee
It's really weird how Krakoa had so much child abuse/neglect. I mean not a LOT but still.
You raised a great question. What happened to all those children? Like you know, the mutant babies that were abandoned and taken care of by Stacy X they just gone now? Were these people just birthing babies and then leaving them? There's so many questions I have about that whole situation that I didn't question right off the back. Like I know Krakoa was wild but did they also abandon all their ethics too?
It was a really weak plot point that undermined having the concept of Krakoa rather than giving it more depth. Why would an ultra progressive nation that isn't constrained by human norms have so many unwanted pregnancies?
Thanks for bringing it up. I genuinely didn't even think about it
Kids usually ruin characters. The universe doesn't age so neither can the kids through normal means which means Jubilee would be stuck with a toddler she found indefinitely. Turning him into a dragon is Tini Howard's best contribution to X-Lore. She fixed Jubilee.
You know, between this, the Various Summers children and the Mutant babies left on the beach, I'm pretty sure the only good Mutant Parent is Logan with no contest
If Logan is the peak I'm terrified of the bottom.
*Glances at Xavier with fear*
Magneto sipping wine in the corner.
"No, see its fine because I don't actually see Pietro as my child. Sadly it doesn't make him any less disappointing."
The parenting is the only matter Max and Charles totally agree. "Favour the daughter(s) and ignore the son". They both even said to their sons that they wouldn't resurrecte them
He isn’t exactly a shining beacon of dad-ly wisdom, no. Never has been. But he is one helluva good teacher. When he gets his head on straight. Which isn’t gonna happen anytime soon. Charles *broke* psychologically, for a lot of reasons. Fear of no longer being relevant, not trained or suited to nation building, isolated and lonely, the very tenets that made him a good man (forgiveness, second chances, trusting others) led to crappy decisions. He has abandoned all that for an icy pragmatism. He has turned his back on humanity and on God and he will use anyone he can to keep mutants alive. So yeah. No parental hero cookies for Charles. I will say, though.. he did try to help David. Tried and failed.
How are your parents Graydon?
Logan kinda killed 50 of his children + daken so no, Scott and Jean still wins due to actually raising nathan in the future
At least with X-Men 97 season 2 The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix will finally become common knowledge, and hopefully this joke can die
1.- He didn't know the Mongrels were his 2.- Daken was a little bitch raised by Romulus. He got better after he came back from the dead. He needed some whooping
Logan is great as long as their aren't his bio kids
He’s been better with Laura than any of his other kids. Sure he still allowed her fresh off teenage prostitution and decimation/198 to join a black ops murder squad when she was trying to sort out getting away from all the killing and finding who she was away from being a living weapon, but he did protest it and has tried to patch things up with Daken since. Plus Old Man Logan raised two good kids until they got Hulked
Hasn’t he tried to kill a few of his kids? I think he was actually successful too
Logan murdered at least 6 of his children so can he really be a good parent?
Cable literally raised the mutant messiah.
Logan kinda killed 50 of his children + daken so no, Scott and Jean still wins due to actually raising nathan in the future edit: they weren't 50, still, he killed them
This is the first I'm hearing of an apparent 50+ dead logan kids
I think they're referring to the Mongrels, which were several children of Logan's that Daken found and recruited to fight Wolverine. Logan eventually killed them, of course, but only found out they were his children *after* he killed most of them (the rest committed suicide). Daken and the Mongrels set it up that way so that Logan would be riddled with guilt over what he did and not be able to do anything about it. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Mongrels_(Earth-616)
Not to be dramatic, but what the fuck is wrong with the people who wrote this?
I agree, the story was really messed up. I know writers love to heap on the angst and pain for Logan, but that story just felt wrong to me on several levels. Jason Aaron was the writer on this story if you really want a face to blame for this.
If anything, the conclusion is that Logan needs to start using a condom.
To be fair, when Logan had some of them condoms probably weren't invented yet
Logan did kill his bastard children unknownigly, but I don't think it was 50+.
This is Sam Guthrie erasure and I will not stand for it!
If it’s Xmen evolution Logan I’d honestly be relived He would complain but dude 100% would step up lol
Logan is not peak, what are you smoking? He's murdered most of his children, dropped the ball multiple times with Laura, and has acknowledged Gabby's existence enough to count on one hand. Scott has tried really hard to be there for his kids despite the circumstances, so I would put him above Logan every time.
I’m fine with it. Never liked the kid and I thought there were other places they could’ve taken Jubes without just making a kid.
Leave him there forever. Lol
Jubilee having a child is one of the worst ideas ever. So glad it's bound to be forgotten.
I really hope the new run shows she got hom back off panel
Forget a sitter. Hire a sister or brother. Husk done nothing the entire age or Multiple Man. Jaime is the one man who can do all of it at once.
Jubilee as an adoptive mother was Never a good idea. she's had so much shit thrown at her. "uhh, she loses her powers on M-Day" why? fuckin why? did they roll dice? so stupid. "uhh, she joins the new warriors with stupid new gear" i would've accepted this if she was written in any way to be similar to her usual character, but she may as well have been a new character for the lack of personification any of those people got in that waste of a series. "uhh, she becomes a vampire." fine, okay, let's do the vampire thing, that could be interest-- oh, they've already given up on that, nobody is referencing it, it's just under the rug, okay. "uhh, she finds a baby and adopts it." why not. they've done everything else to her, except make her a god, why not take this route? "the baby's in the way, it shapeshifts into a dragon and she leaves it in the fantasy world." that fantasy world sucks and the baby becoming a talking dragon is beyond stupid. it's so beyond stupid.
I do hope they use this as an excuse to Magik style age Shogo up. He's using full sentences telepathically instead of pictures so he clearly has grown. Having him be Franklin Richards' age with maybe some Otherworld magic would be fun and make him a viable character
It's because no one wants to read about a dumb fuckin baby. Same reason they just aged up Jessica Drew's son in Spider-Woman.
They royally screwed her up after Generation X
Anybody know how old the cuckoos are? They seemed to grow up pretty quickly
Early 20s, mayyyybe late teens, same as the Academy X kids
Or she could’ve stayed in otherworld…X-terminators, and/ or blue team nostalgia aside: there were plenty of other mutants to take her place: especially since it’s been reduced to: “where is shogo?” “I was a vampire once” for the last bunch of years
Damn, I didn't think the response to Shogo would be so negative in here. At the time, like would I have like given Jubilee a child? No, probably not, but I still like Shogo. I don't have a problem with him sticking around and Jubilee being his adoptive mom. Like yeah he would add a story constraint when someone would want to use Jubilee, but like idk, you could find a babysitter or something if you don't want to focus on Jubilee being a mom; then you could also have fun baby sitting adventures with like Shogo and Gabby or something, idk, just spit-balling. Marvel in general really doesn't like giving characters kids though, and if they do they really try going out of their way to write them out or age them up. Look at what just happened to Gerry Drew for instance.
Didn't expect as much negative comments as I got myself. But yeah, I agree with you.
I mean — I have no beef with the fictional child. It does feel like a pretty big burden to place on the character, that either forces the character to change an aspect of her personality that has been pretty integral to who she is (her goofy irresponsibility) or be a bad parent. And there’s nothing wrong with character growth, but that dramatic of growth seems kinda like if there was a change in which Bruce Wayne took up a career in stand up comedy. The writers need to either have Bruce Wayne develop a sense of humor over night, or have him be a bad stand up comic … and even in that example, it isn’t as bad — because if Bruce Wayne is a crappy stand up comic, people won’t see that as an indictment of the indictment of his moral character. Bruce Wayne trying and failing to be funny could even make him more likable as it can be endearing to see someone who is so gifted fail. Whereas, if a character turns out to be an irresponsible parent, then they are considered a bad person. No one finds someone failing at being a good parent endearing. So the writers have to either make big ol’ changes in Jubilee’s established personality, or keep her the goofy firecracker with a mouth and heart bigger than her brain — and risk character assassination as more and more people will start asking why she is risking life and limb when she is the only person alive that this baby is counting on to keep living.
I mean I see what you are saying but I don't know that I agree. Jubilee had done some maturing by that point and wasn't really the same irresponsible teen, so I don't think it was really such a huge leap for the character by that point as you suggest. A lot of this is from memory as I don't feel like rereading it all, so apologies if I get some details wrong, but: She had multiple close friends die in / right after Generation X and so she had taken a step back and was going to figure herself out for a bit and what she wanted to do going forward. She tried to go live with her surviving aunt and go back to school but then her aunt died (well she didn't actually die but Jubilee thought she had). She returned briefly but then lost her powers from M-day then had a short stint as a political activist. Then she ran like a safehouse for depowered mutants in the wake of M-day. Then she took a leadership role in the new New Warriors (as the #2 / lieutenant). Following that up is when she was made a vampire. Being a vampire like forced her as a character like another layer of responsibility in that now also had to be very careful / responsible about controlling her hunger for blood and vampire urges. Then finally Shogo happened. Like I said given everything above I don't think she was quite that irresponsible teen anymore. I also think that the additional responsibility with Shogo possibly did / could kind of synergize thematically with the control / responsibility / carefulness that vampirism already forced upon her. That is by no means to say that each story mentioned above was like a great choice or well written, I actually think quite a bit of it is pretty bad from what I recall, but my point still stands imo.
I found it odd that she got sidelined while other heroes that have children have been able to successfully maintain their hero status. Jessica Drew Jessica Jones The invisible woman. Those are not there I can think of actually but still leaving him the multiverse was just weird
Hey Weirdworld isn't all bad there's a whole Swamp of Man-Things!
Ditching children in the multiverse instead of getting a sitter? This is just like Fire Emblem Fates.
Nah, fuck Shogo. They've done Jubilee so dirty since post House of M. * Depowered * Joined the New Warriors * Became a Vampire * Took care of a kid that wasn't her. Just awful character growth.
I am inclined to agree that she’s had some lame storylines — but ya know —- she at least has storylines ? Like, I became a big fan of hers during Generation X, and seeing how some of the other Gen X alums have faired, I feel ungrateful to complain. Making her a single teen mom does feel kinda lame … Like, it forces the character to either be super irresponsible and neglectful, constantly putting this innocent baby’s life in danger — or basically retired from the action of the comics.
That’s marvel editorial in general Hate kids so much
Good
I've never been a big fan of superheroes having kids anyway. There are some exceptions to the rule but usually you just get stuck in a loop of the hero constantly having to rescue the kid from something and that's just really boring
They should have never given her a kid in the first place, this is as good as any for getting rid of a kid.
The Tini Howard run of titles made me block those events in my memory, including the illogical Shogo and Dragon form fiasco. Betsy, Rictor, Rogue, Gambit, Shogo, Meggan, Brian, Rachel, Kwannon, etc were done wrong with the fantasy fan fic turned canon.
I don't know what you're talking about, Nathan was born in the 80s and we've seen him in his 20s with Young Cable, 30s with X-Man, and now 50s. It's the circle of life!
Jubilee has a kid?! Excuse me? What?
During her Vampire era she ended up caring for an abandoned child that had some Sublime thing going on. After that was dealt with she began taking care of them and even got official adoption papers.
Thanks! Thats a lot of lore to digest 😂 not that up to date with the comics since the distribution where I live is really weird, but just got me even more intrigued about everything x-men comics related
It worked so well for cable!
I was wondering where Shogo went! Is he in Otherworld then?
Yep, Jubilee believes he's safer there than on earth at the moment.
Thanks, I must’ve missed that. When did that happen? Was it in Knights of X?
No its from her internal thoughts from the previews of the new era.
Ahh good to know, thanks!
My theory is that they needed her to be "young" again, because that is the status quo, Jubes is one of the youngest X-Men members and she having a kid would alter that image ""we"" have of her, but that's just stupid I mean that was one of the best development they gave her character since she became a Vampire a decade ago.
Check out Scott & Madelyn Summers.
She kept treating that kid like a toy lol.
Nanny would love to have Shogo
Same
Wait, is Jubilee finally free from the baby? Can she finally be a character who matters again?
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Jubilee hasn’t had a good arc since Generation X. She could have been the next Kitty Pride, with her being a “sidekick” to wolverine, being famous on the Animated Series, and having a group made with her as the first student… (come on, she even made out with robin and got on Amalgam!!)… but instead they decided that they’d make her a vampire, or a mother to a human baby she just found in a mission (I know I read that but I just remember something on a train I cannot remember why she thought it was a good idea to just keep the kid). Then they teased the kid to be somehow like “iron lad”, leading the xmen of the future and then he turns into a dragon? Nope, just get rid of the kid, the vampirism, and realize that GenX might need a revival as they did with “New Mutants”.
I stopped reading comics for a long time, then picked up an issue one time and saw Storm and Jubilee arguing about being a vampire and it was a permanent change.. Stupidest thing I ever heard.
I fully expect Storm's 2 Arakki kids to be absent moving forward. 😭😭😭
I'm just kind of like "Okay so she's a mutant again...what are you going to do with it?" and they just keep going "lets... keep on doing dumb things with her that undo pretty much everything that happened when she was a vamp or make it seem like she's not caring about them"... I just kind of wish they kept her vamp at this point and gave HER the storyline they've given Kitty during the Age of X story of her not being able to use the portals.