I really hate it, it's almost 100% given that every council bumps it up by 4.99% each year now. I stop caring about the main government budget announcements saying that we're all getting X back, because it just goes straight on council tax later.
They have basically no choice, council costs are soaring and their real terms spending power has fallen by 27% since 2010. Central government realised long ago that whatever they do, we'll blame the councils not them. I doubt Labour'll be any different though.
I've worked for Lambeth council before. And the amount of consultants I saw being paid £500-600/day was ridiculous.
Councils have no fiscal responsibility. They need to just concentrate on the basic services an area needs and that's it.
It's a feeding trough. They siphon off as much public money as possible.
Abolish Council tax. Merge it into the overall tax rates, which at least can be debated and voted upon every 5 years in a GE. Because small-time council members do not have the wherewithal to understand fiscal responsibility.
What difference would that make? If councils had more government funding. That extra funding comes from taxpayers as well.
All council money, whether it comes from council tax or government funding, ultimately comes from the taxpayer
100% of the council tax in an area is coming from people who live there.
The government funding is coming from:
- “The taxpayer”, ie income (and NI) and capital gains tax income, including from people living in parts of the country where incomes are higher (about 45% of overall public income)
- VAT, company taxes, other indirect taxes, which I’m really roughly lumping together as being paid by business and therefore indirectly by consumers (rather than “taxpayers”) (34%)
- other, royalties, and non-tax income, like student loan interest payments (10%)
So it’s not really got the same impact on “the taxpayer”. And definitely not on the local taxpayer.
(Note: numbers from https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/where-does-government-get-its-money. Ideally I would have used figures that only included central govt income (ie that didn’t have a council tax component throwing off the percentages) but I’m on my phone)
I am fully aware council taxes come from the population of a certain area.
My response was to OP who claimed the councils have no money because "the population" (I take that to mean the UK population) keeps voting Tory.
I am querying how the country voting Tory in general elections has anything to do with the lack of council funds.
It's quite simple really. Government policy for the past 14 years has been to significantly reduce spending and therefore reduces funding to local government and councils. However, the same services need to be delivered, many of which are are legally mandated. They have to be paid for somehow, so Council Tax increases are implemented just to maintain basic services.
And if the government had allocated more funding for local government. That funding would come from the taxpayer.
No matter how we slice it. More expenditure either comes from more debt or more taxes.
I saw the breakdown. It was all forms of taxes and then 10% student loan repayments.
Tax is tax, whether it's coming out of your paypacket or you're paying it via VAT when purchasing essential goods.
The 100s of pounds most of pay in council tax per month should be more than enough. But it isn't because councils for lack of a better term - 'spunk it up the wall'
You've been given all the information that you need to understand how national tax and local tax impacts national and local funding.
Have a great day.
Gary
> And if the government had allocated more funding for local government. That funding would come from the taxpayer.
It would come from the taxpayer, but it wouldn't be MORE.
Tax payers pay council tax that goes to councils. They also pay other taxes that go to central government. Say the amount that goes directly to the council is £100 and to the government is £100 for easy maths.
Central government used to give the council £20 a year from it's pot. So the council provides £120 worth of services. The central government (the Tories) then decides to take that £20 away. They decide to waste it on things like sending people to Rwanda and giving their mates covid contracts. They waste literally *billions*.
This means the poor council has only got £100 to provide £120 worth of services, so it has to increase taxes. Had the government not given that £20 to their cronies and instead let the councils keep it, they wouldn't have to raise taxes.
So if we didn't have this incompetent Tory government, because people hadn't voted Tory, then council tax wouldn't be increasing.
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/tories-have-squandered-eye-watering-100-billion-of-taxpayer-cash-in-four-years-report-363662/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/jan/16/uk-wasting-tens-of-billions-on-crumbling-infrastructure-and-badly-run-projects
I will guarantee that when Labour wins in a landslide. All these problems still remain for years and years.
The issues with this country run much deeper than "Tory mates... covid contracts... Michelle Mone.." Country has never recovered from 2008.
But hopefully, I'm wrong
That's not true, the Tories in central government have slashed council funding dramatically. The council need to raise more funds or they can't provide services. Had the Tories not done that, we wouldn't be in this position.
I half agree half don't where we are (kirklees) it is clearly mis management, saying they have no money but then suddenly having millions for 'projects'
You can place your vote for your local politician. Historically the number of people who bother to vote is very low, actually voting makes a difference and is an excellent start. Plus. If you didn’t bother voting, don’t complain who wins.
Even your local elections? Your local councillors are voted in too. Use [THIS TOOL](https://www.eastriding.gov.uk/council/councillors-and-members-of-parliament/ward-councillors/) to check who your local elected official is and when their seats up for reelection.
I am aware how elections work. But like I said I am from Leeds, not East Yorkshire. We have a different council, Leeds is labour and has been for decades
Leeds council was (re)elected in back in May 2023. Every vote counts and I’d always urge everyone to vote. A smidge less than 32% of people eligible turned out to vote so you could say almost two thirds of people didn’t vote which is crazy. A lot don’t in protest but that’s a silly protest. I strongly feel the government should count the number of votes for ‘no one represents my beliefs’ to see how many people are engaged in voting but don’t want to choose a candidate for whatever reason. A lot of people just spoil their ballot which also does nothing.
This is despite at the meeting apparently the finances were reported as strong for the North Yorks council & police. Yet there’s an increase regardless.
To be expected but frustrating all the same, but there are absolutely worse councils to live under in this country
I was hoping the "mega council" bringing all council tax rates in line would have meant that my council tax wouldn't go up but ooooh noooo everyone was brought in line with (if I remember right) Selby which has the highest levels of council tax if I recall.
Articles on Google say average rise will be £100 for the year.
Fucking great, I cant afford the council tax I have to pay as it is (£220 a month.)
It was Harrogate that had the highest rate. Selby had one of the lowest and so last year's increase was the second largest in the region. Plus, Selby used to have a "free" green bin service which turned into a chargeable service under the new NY council. I still reckon the changes were more about gerrymandering than efficiencies.
Westminster calculates the grants they dole out locally on council tax rises of 5%.
Council blames the government, government blames rises on the council. Nobody is accountable and everyone wins but people working for a living.
Same in Cornwall. £3208.68 for me.
No kids, no wheelie bins, no social service or care requirements. Tempted to "move out" and have 25% single occupancy reduction. Its an absolute daylight robbery.
£8.80 per day.
Roads, policing, you have been through the education system, fire service, no social services or care requirements YET. Environmental health, food safety, licensing.
I promise you that the work of your council and what your council tax pays for benefits your life every day in unseen ways.
I know exactly how it's being ~~spent~~ wasted as I used to work for a council.
I have zero issue with Police, fire and road (if they actually repaired and maintained the roads) which make up a very small percentage of the bill.
Environmental health, food safety and licensing you say? Because businesses don't have to pay business rates and license fees for this service?
What I do have issue with is 1, the cost of the council tax to start with and 2, the archaic system based on the "habitable" square footage of the property you are in. My house is band F because it has a large garage which just happens to be attached to the main property. Because of this the square footage is substantially increased from a birds eye view despite not being habitable for a large section of the footprint.
The education system is another massive waste on resources as I have seen first hand how money is and isn't spent wisely in the education sector. Most are turning themselves into academies now to get more clawback on our taxes.
The gvt have told all councils that the central gvt grant will assume all councils are raising CT by 4.99%. Do not be gaslighted into thinking its all the councils fault as the majority of council spend is on adult social care.
I spoke to the anti social lot from ER yesterday waste of time according to them I can stand outside your house stare into it as long as I like as long as I don't go onto your property and shout abuse at you as long as it isn't technically directed at you
Pretty sure all councils will be raising it by the same percentage
I really hate it, it's almost 100% given that every council bumps it up by 4.99% each year now. I stop caring about the main government budget announcements saying that we're all getting X back, because it just goes straight on council tax later.
They have basically no choice, council costs are soaring and their real terms spending power has fallen by 27% since 2010. Central government realised long ago that whatever they do, we'll blame the councils not them. I doubt Labour'll be any different though.
I've worked for Lambeth council before. And the amount of consultants I saw being paid £500-600/day was ridiculous. Councils have no fiscal responsibility. They need to just concentrate on the basic services an area needs and that's it.
Yup. People “retire” then come back as consultants on massive daily rates 5 minutes later!
It's a feeding trough. They siphon off as much public money as possible. Abolish Council tax. Merge it into the overall tax rates, which at least can be debated and voted upon every 5 years in a GE. Because small-time council members do not have the wherewithal to understand fiscal responsibility.
Yes then have it divvied up the same way the national government divvy up their own funding (i.e. 70% to the south)
What part of the last 2 decades or so have given you the impression that our national government is better with fiscal responsibility?
Yep, main driver for arms length independent bodies; not our fault, blame those other people….
Every Council nationwide will be raising taxes because the population keeps voting Tory.
What difference would that make? If councils had more government funding. That extra funding comes from taxpayers as well. All council money, whether it comes from council tax or government funding, ultimately comes from the taxpayer
100% of the council tax in an area is coming from people who live there. The government funding is coming from: - “The taxpayer”, ie income (and NI) and capital gains tax income, including from people living in parts of the country where incomes are higher (about 45% of overall public income) - VAT, company taxes, other indirect taxes, which I’m really roughly lumping together as being paid by business and therefore indirectly by consumers (rather than “taxpayers”) (34%) - other, royalties, and non-tax income, like student loan interest payments (10%) So it’s not really got the same impact on “the taxpayer”. And definitely not on the local taxpayer. (Note: numbers from https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/where-does-government-get-its-money. Ideally I would have used figures that only included central govt income (ie that didn’t have a council tax component throwing off the percentages) but I’m on my phone)
I am fully aware council taxes come from the population of a certain area. My response was to OP who claimed the councils have no money because "the population" (I take that to mean the UK population) keeps voting Tory. I am querying how the country voting Tory in general elections has anything to do with the lack of council funds.
It's quite simple really. Government policy for the past 14 years has been to significantly reduce spending and therefore reduces funding to local government and councils. However, the same services need to be delivered, many of which are are legally mandated. They have to be paid for somehow, so Council Tax increases are implemented just to maintain basic services.
And if the government had allocated more funding for local government. That funding would come from the taxpayer. No matter how we slice it. More expenditure either comes from more debt or more taxes.
u/BroodingMawlek above explained the difference how these two functions are funded here, which you've conveniently chosen to ignore.
I saw the breakdown. It was all forms of taxes and then 10% student loan repayments. Tax is tax, whether it's coming out of your paypacket or you're paying it via VAT when purchasing essential goods. The 100s of pounds most of pay in council tax per month should be more than enough. But it isn't because councils for lack of a better term - 'spunk it up the wall'
You've been given all the information that you need to understand how national tax and local tax impacts national and local funding. Have a great day. Gary
> And if the government had allocated more funding for local government. That funding would come from the taxpayer. It would come from the taxpayer, but it wouldn't be MORE. Tax payers pay council tax that goes to councils. They also pay other taxes that go to central government. Say the amount that goes directly to the council is £100 and to the government is £100 for easy maths. Central government used to give the council £20 a year from it's pot. So the council provides £120 worth of services. The central government (the Tories) then decides to take that £20 away. They decide to waste it on things like sending people to Rwanda and giving their mates covid contracts. They waste literally *billions*. This means the poor council has only got £100 to provide £120 worth of services, so it has to increase taxes. Had the government not given that £20 to their cronies and instead let the councils keep it, they wouldn't have to raise taxes. So if we didn't have this incompetent Tory government, because people hadn't voted Tory, then council tax wouldn't be increasing. https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/tories-have-squandered-eye-watering-100-billion-of-taxpayer-cash-in-four-years-report-363662/ https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/jan/16/uk-wasting-tens-of-billions-on-crumbling-infrastructure-and-badly-run-projects
🙌
I will guarantee that when Labour wins in a landslide. All these problems still remain for years and years. The issues with this country run much deeper than "Tory mates... covid contracts... Michelle Mone.." Country has never recovered from 2008. But hopefully, I'm wrong
I know that there's no quick fix, but I'd happily take a long fix or a partial fix over no fix.
Tories are dicks but this has nothing to do with it.
That's not true, the Tories in central government have slashed council funding dramatically. The council need to raise more funds or they can't provide services. Had the Tories not done that, we wouldn't be in this position.
I half agree half don't where we are (kirklees) it is clearly mis management, saying they have no money but then suddenly having millions for 'projects'
Don't blame the council, blame the Tories for 14 years of austerity.
The council is Tory run anyway
So vote them out!
I’m from Leeds so I can’t do that?
You can place your vote for your local politician. Historically the number of people who bother to vote is very low, actually voting makes a difference and is an excellent start. Plus. If you didn’t bother voting, don’t complain who wins.
I always vote, but my vote is irrelevant to the East Riding county council, which is what we are talking about
Even your local elections? Your local councillors are voted in too. Use [THIS TOOL](https://www.eastriding.gov.uk/council/councillors-and-members-of-parliament/ward-councillors/) to check who your local elected official is and when their seats up for reelection.
I am aware how elections work. But like I said I am from Leeds, not East Yorkshire. We have a different council, Leeds is labour and has been for decades
Leeds council was (re)elected in back in May 2023. Every vote counts and I’d always urge everyone to vote. A smidge less than 32% of people eligible turned out to vote so you could say almost two thirds of people didn’t vote which is crazy. A lot don’t in protest but that’s a silly protest. I strongly feel the government should count the number of votes for ‘no one represents my beliefs’ to see how many people are engaged in voting but don’t want to choose a candidate for whatever reason. A lot of people just spoil their ballot which also does nothing.
Yeah but what does any of that have to do with East Yorkshire
Same for North Yorkshire.
This is despite at the meeting apparently the finances were reported as strong for the North Yorks council & police. Yet there’s an increase regardless. To be expected but frustrating all the same, but there are absolutely worse councils to live under in this country
I was hoping the "mega council" bringing all council tax rates in line would have meant that my council tax wouldn't go up but ooooh noooo everyone was brought in line with (if I remember right) Selby which has the highest levels of council tax if I recall. Articles on Google say average rise will be £100 for the year. Fucking great, I cant afford the council tax I have to pay as it is (£220 a month.)
It was Harrogate that had the highest rate. Selby had one of the lowest and so last year's increase was the second largest in the region. Plus, Selby used to have a "free" green bin service which turned into a chargeable service under the new NY council. I still reckon the changes were more about gerrymandering than efficiencies.
Westminster calculates the grants they dole out locally on council tax rises of 5%. Council blames the government, government blames rises on the council. Nobody is accountable and everyone wins but people working for a living.
Yep and anybody who believes that changing the colour of the rosette on the donkey is wilfully, or otherwise, misguided
Same in Cornwall. £3208.68 for me. No kids, no wheelie bins, no social service or care requirements. Tempted to "move out" and have 25% single occupancy reduction. Its an absolute daylight robbery. £8.80 per day.
Roads, policing, you have been through the education system, fire service, no social services or care requirements YET. Environmental health, food safety, licensing. I promise you that the work of your council and what your council tax pays for benefits your life every day in unseen ways.
I know exactly how it's being ~~spent~~ wasted as I used to work for a council. I have zero issue with Police, fire and road (if they actually repaired and maintained the roads) which make up a very small percentage of the bill. Environmental health, food safety and licensing you say? Because businesses don't have to pay business rates and license fees for this service? What I do have issue with is 1, the cost of the council tax to start with and 2, the archaic system based on the "habitable" square footage of the property you are in. My house is band F because it has a large garage which just happens to be attached to the main property. Because of this the square footage is substantially increased from a birds eye view despite not being habitable for a large section of the footprint. The education system is another massive waste on resources as I have seen first hand how money is and isn't spent wisely in the education sector. Most are turning themselves into academies now to get more clawback on our taxes.
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Glad you see £2406 of my already taxed money isn't being wasted whatsoever even though I see no benefit of it.
Frozen in Scotland, very few Tories. Odd eh
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If you are well off enough council tax is a expense that doesn't even register for you then you are very lucky.
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Jog on silly cunt
The gvt have told all councils that the central gvt grant will assume all councils are raising CT by 4.99%. Do not be gaslighted into thinking its all the councils fault as the majority of council spend is on adult social care.
I spoke to the anti social lot from ER yesterday waste of time according to them I can stand outside your house stare into it as long as I like as long as I don't go onto your property and shout abuse at you as long as it isn't technically directed at you