NTA. She either doesn’t understand finances or is selfish and entitled AF.
And btw, yeah the wedding day is a big day, but it’s meaningless compared to the years ahead. (Mine was almost 30 years ago.) Each of you might want to think about that.
Hard agree. It’s about the person you’re marrying, not the event. I’d marry my fiancé tomorrow in a brown paper bag in the middle of nowhere. But we do want a wedding (our families really do too) so we’re going for it, but keeping it DIY, cheap, and relatively small to avoid going into debt. As a woman too, I agree that we all think about our big day in our head our entire lives. Media really pushed that on us as kids. But you do have to be realistic about it, and she’s not being realistic at all. Anything attached to “wedding” and the cost skyrockets. And typically, you usually spend more than you budget for somewhere, so lowball it.
NTA. She needs a reality check and you need to reevaluate how concerned you should be about finances if this is the early argument in your marriage. Make sure you’re on the same page or you’ll really be in trouble later.
I've never heard someone pine w regret about how much more fancy their wedding 'could have been' -- agreed. I have heard people regret they blew what couldve been a house down payment on a wedding, absolutely
Absolutely. Which is why I’m so pro-micro wedding. I have always wanted a traditional wedding, mostly in part to wanting my dad to walk me down the aisle and a father of the bride dance. I realized how important that was to me when he was diagnosed with cancer two years ago (doing so well now one year post-stem cell transplant!).
But with budget and knowing that money could go elsewhere, I want to do it small and intimate with people I care about. I’d be much more upset that I blew money on a big fancy party with tons of people that I don’t interact with and that I probably wouldn’t enjoy as much versus investing in our future and still keeping that “traditional” wedding vibe on a tighter budget.
Yup. My fiance and I just want to have fun, I don't really care about the grandiosity of it all, we want to have a karaoke booth and a LAN party setup.
In my experience, people like her who put ALL the importance on the wedding, and none on the actual marriage, don't stay married long. This girl is so obsessed with her wedding that OP isn't even a factor in her mind. It's all about her, he's just a wallet with a man attached to it. She would have said yes to any man willing to put a ring on it and give her "her wedding".
One of the number one reasons people divorce is because of Finances. If you guys aren’t on the same page, it may not work out in the long run. Putting yourselves in debt just adds extra pressure on top of joining two lives together, it’s not worth it.
It's not just a bad idea it's literally a stupid idea and an entirely frivolous one at that. It's one thing to make a bad decision, but it's entirely different when those are just dumb choices.
Also, for what even? Like you are getting married not buying a permanent asset or even something useful. It really is only good for attention and validation. That's the value OP's fiance takes from a wedding. Weddings are luxuries.
The thing I’ve noticed about this is that a lot of couples forget to check whether they’re financially compatible before they get married. It’s a bigger deal than a lot of people think, and financial incompatibility is one of the leading causes of divorce. It’s super important to know what your partner values in terms of spending and saving, and make sure your beliefs and practices are in line with each other.
Right now, it does not look like OP and their fiancée are financially compatible.
I’d think of it as the cheese in a burger. It could be a stinky expensive cheese or basic cheddar or no cheese at all. There’s no right cheese and, in fact, it’s not even necessary for a marriage.
If there is one thing I realized after about 7 years of marriage, was how fucking irrelevant the wedding is to the rest of your marriage. Don't sacrifice your marriage for your wedding. We got remarried on our 10th anniversary by Elvis in Vegas. It was part mockery of the concept of the "wedding" and part reason to get drunk in Vegas with our friends. But we did vow to never wear our blue suede shoes in the rain, and we've taken that pretty seriously.
The only two couples I know who have been together forever-my parents and my friend who married right after college, all had small church weddings with 50 or so attendees and a simple wedding and reception. I asked my parents if they had a fun wedding and they told me by the end they were so tired they feel asleep the first night.
Weddings don't mean bumpkins. The fact that OP's girlfriend wants a big wedding above their budget is a huge red flag.
This.
Sounds like she wants her fairytale princess day, not an actual marriage.
*--"She accused me of not caring about her happiness and said I was being cheap."*
If this isn't manipulation, I don't know what is.
The fact you went over your finances with her, showing that you can’t afford a big lavish wedding and she STILL insists on doing it. Yeah, op needs to put the brakes on this.
This is backed up by studies, too.
[https://www.csus.edu/faculty/m/fred.molitor/docs/wedding%20expenses%20and%20marriage%20duration.pdf](https://www.csus.edu/faculty/m/fred.molitor/docs/wedding%20expenses%20and%20marriage%20duration.pdf)
So true. The most expensive wedding I attended was indeed a blast, but it was the worst marriage. My in-laws were a justice of the peace at town hall. Married 60 years so far. My parents at their parents house. Married 45 years. My wedding, pretty cheap, 34 years in so far. I splurged on my dress and in retrospect wasn't really necessary
Hubs and I got married 44 years ago in his parent’s living room by a justice of the peace. My off the rack non-wedding dress cost $50, cheap even in those days. Family and a few close friends attended, about 25-30 total. In laws provided hors ‘oeuvres (delicious) and our wedding cake was gifted from a family friend.
We were just talking the other day about how much we loved our wedding.
Don’t marry someone who wants to spend your future on a one day party.
Yep! Spouse and I had a courthouse wedding, just my MIL as a witness. We ordered our clothes online, one of my MIL's friends made me a little bouquet and a matching butonnieer, I painted rainbow shoes for us (LGBTQ+ wedding and all!) and then as soon as we changed clothes the three of us ran off to Disneyland. 🤣
Granted it's not for everyone and that's okay! We've been together 22 years, married for 9, and we don't regret anything about our wedding. I would have been annoyed if we had spent a fortune and had skipped Disneyland, haha.
Same here. My wife is a musician and she played for a HUGE wedding. The wedding party was at a swanky country club, with almost 200 guests; they catered it, and had a live band for dancing too... The happy couple separated in about 5-6 months, and divorced. The bride's father told me they still owed on the wedding when they separated.
In my experience it's an accurate statement it cost my ex-wife and I a little over 150$ for our courthouse wedding a dress and ring that lasted 15 years. We saw several friends who had expensive weddings last a fraction of that time.
But hey those Instagram photos won't take themselves! Social media is a goddamn plight on society by telling women and men they should accept nothing less than to be outright delusional. It's fuckin sad man.
I hate this idea as a woman and I hate the way some women do this and then everyone thinks all women are like that. I do want a big wedding but I want it to be a event that represents my partner and I something we have fun planning together going through the experiences to make this day amazing.
I don’t get it. It’s a party. Most people don’t even like going to weddings in the first place. My husband and I spent 8 grand on our wedding. It was outside a bar /restaurant under a tent and we invited close friends and family and a couple coworkers. It was amazing and everyone had fun. The more lavish the more boring it is.
Agreed. I need several THC gummies just to make it thru the boredom of most weddings. Especially as someone who doesn't drink and hates being around drunk people. If my partner got invited to a wedding that did not allow a +1, I personally would be elated. I'd gladly spent the day doing... anything else.
I’ve told so many friends and family if they need to cut someone I won’t be hurt if I’m not invited. I’m happy to help with planning and not attend. My favorite weddings have been potluck or BBQs in back yards.
Same here. I will never understand why some women want to spend a fortune, and even go into debt, for a big over the top affair that lasts a day, not to mention the expensive showers and stuff. I just don't get it.
I’m a bit biased because due to being raised in a heavily religious environment, all weddings I’ve ever been to have been dry. So weddings have always just been super dull and boring experiences for me.
But even trying to set that aside, I just hate having to get all dressed up and spend an entire day (or at least half a day, and it’s typically on the weekend) at an event where I’ll maybe get to talk to the bride and groom for five minutes? It’s just exhausting
Lol my hubs was in finance. We eloped because: 1) he’s cheap; 2) I don’t like people; 3) why waste all that money on a party when you can put it towards buying a home?
Ya know if she wanted a big party that's not impossible on a budget. You can be smart about spending and still have a big, badass, gorgeous party. I think fiancé wants to make a big show for people -- like, look how much dough we get to throw around!
I feel like someone could make so much money by having a pretty venue set up and women could rent timeslots and pretty dresses for photos to get it out of their system.
OP, you have a couple sets of red flags waving at you. They are totally separate.
Bride wants a wedding you cannot afford. That would end the discussion for an adult. Getting and spending that amount of money will impede or destroy your joint plans going into the future: for buying a home, deciding when to have a child, considering future vacations. She wants to trade one day of frivolity for security and careful planning about these and other issues. How can you continue living such a careless, thoughtless woman? Imagine trying to plan decades of married life with that mentality.
The second set of issues is with the bride's decision to stonewall you. Silence is the one method of problem-solving guaranteed not to resolve the issue at hand. No other method will accomplish what silence accomplishes: absolutely nothing. You go through hours days weeks of silence, and what has changed? Nothing.
How have you passed the time with this person? Has this person dug in her heels at every suggestion of restaurant, every discussion of vacation, every dream of a future life--- with no indication that she hears you at all? If this is how she has behaved, you've seen this day coming. In the past, did you cave in to her wishes, or did she see you struggle and change her behavior? Because you have to assume she is now showing her true colors, in claiming these silly, irrelevant issues are worth dying for.
She is demonstrating her inability to face problems and deal with them like an adult. Her digging into silence shows you that you cannot trust her to meet you as an equal, as an adult, about managing a shared life. "My way or the highway" isn't a serious attempt to share responsibility. Her lack of respect shows conclusively that she doesn't love you. The only way to get out of this situation with your integrity intact is say goodbye to this spoiled child
Far too many do. Not to mention that this "once in a lifetime" statistically also won't be just once.
Why people waste money they don't have on one day I'll never know.
The question about what's more important is the right one to ask and that may well decide a lot right there.
Also, there are two people in this couple. Her happiness isn't more important than his. She's already manipulating him. Not a good start.
I know everyone has different values, but I genuinely can't imagine marrying someone who wants to spend an exorbitant amount on a wedding. I can barely imagine *being friends* with someone who wanted a super extravagant wedding.
I didn't have a wedding and most of my friends had small, fun, laid back affairs. The one friend who did have an expensive wedding did it very thoughtfully; it wasn't designer gowns or mansions, it was just a really neat and elegant accommodation for a lot of people.
It's not like a moral judgment, I don't think, I just can't imagine having anything *in common* with a person who valued this type of thing. Are they going to make me care about fine China?
Give it a few months after the wedding and she'll be complaining about not going on fancy holidays, that the house is too small or not in the poshest suburb...
OP might want to re-evaluate their relationship.
It sounds like she's actually in love with the wedding, not OP. Women like this don't think about life happening after the wedding. It's very short sighted, self gratifying, and selfish thinking that leads to relationships dissolving very quickly after the wedding.
Absolutely the most important thing element, she wants something unrealistic, she’s not offering any solutions like she’ll get a second job, ain’t a few years to save. The best solution is to walk away because if you think this is just how it’s going to be for the wedding, have I got news for you, wait until you see the house she wants.
That money could be used for a wonderful elopement/honeymoon and then have an I Do BBQ to celebrate. This idea of debt to be fancy for one day is insane.
I would adore if we could find out what the difference in expectations were.
I understand wanting your partner to "go all out" on your ring, because that's something you'll be wearing every day for the rest of your life. That being said, "nice" does not mean "expensive." I told my fiance that I'd rather put money towards getting a house than on my engagement ring. Mine was <$300 and it's the most perfect ring in the world to me.
I remember talking to a girl once where she said that she’d expect the guy to spend at least 10-15k on the ring and I balked at that. I understand not wanting a cheapo plastic ring, that’s fair - but 10 grand? Fuck that
She doesn't care about your money (that you don't have). She just wants YOU to go into debt for her. I wouldn't. And if I'd asked my OH that when we were talking about our wedding g he would have rightfully told me to fuck off and do it myself if it matters that much. Is she taking on the debt? If not, she is a selfish, juvenile toddler that behaves in a manner not conducive to marriage. Is this what you want for the next 50 years? With children? If not.....don't marry the bitch. Yes.....bitch. And I'm female.....disgusted by her attitude and thought processes. Not ready to be a wife or mother.
She only cares about what you will spend on her. If she has shown this before....run, and run now. No man needs a stupid wife like this. They need an intelligent partner, not a 4 year old screaming like Violet in Willy Wonka.
In the post OP says his fiancé is mad at him because they don't have enough money for the wedding she wants, but in his other post (made right after this one) he says that his fiancé is mad at him because she wants to give away their honeymoon fund to her sister so that her sister can have the extravagant wedding she wants and OP doesn't agree. Why would someone who doesn't have enough money be fighting with her fiancé to give away the money they do have? Pretty sure these stories are fake.
This is sneak peek into the rest of your life with this woman. Weddings are once in a lifetime event, so is each anniversary, each birth, every milestone birthday and special even will be just on the other side of what you consider reasonable. Hope she doesn't turn out to have the same mindset about houses, automobiles and vacations. She will bully and insult you ever step of the way and you will be in over your head the whole duration of your marriage if you marry her. This is the way selfish, entitled people operate.
Didn't even realize I was walking into this trap. MIL emptied her 401K, I took on 10K credit card debt, wife added 15K I didn't know about. 18 years later we are 90k+ in credit card debt, with college tuition starting in 2 years for our 4 kids. Every holiday, birthday, and anniversary has to be celebrated(catered event), she has to drive a Lexus, every gift has to be substantial, and we 'need' to take one family vacation, plus 2 weekend trips each summer, cuz that's what her family did growing up. But, ITA everytime I balk at an event, vacation, or credit consolidation/rollover; and I'm therefore wrong with every plan or tool I propose to eliminate or minimize our spending. Doomsday is coming for me; don't walk in my footsteps.
Because it was just one aspect, things were good otherwise. However, the last three years have magnified items so that this has become the overarching issue that now affects everything. 25% income increase vs 50% expense increase and there's no safety margin anywhere.
I can understand your decision. For me, I would also have stayed even just for the kids. Hopefully you at least enjoyed the nice wedding, celebrations, and vacations with your family. Those good memories are priceless.
My dad saved diligently and never took on debt, thinking that he would have a good retirement. Then he got lung cancer and passed away at 62. I remember nearing the end when he was going in n out of consciousness, he still mumbled about taking us on a family trip/vacation when he gets better (we never took family vacation not even a weekend trip in 20 years). At least your kids (and hopefully you) will not have this as a regret...
It is ok to expand the budget for one or two items that make sense. I added a happy hour after the ceremony that included a champaign fountain. The guests attended while we got our photos. It made sense so people were not waiting on us while we got our photos.
Edit to add that this only added $200-$300 to my wedding. We had a small guest list under 50 and a really reasonable venue.
I knew someone who had that big blowout wedding along with a five star honeymoon in Hawaii. He told me like 3 years after the wedding when he sees the wedding dress in the closet he gets irrationally angry because they are still paying that wedding off.
Don't be that guy.
This whole story is fake as shit. Look at OP’s post history. He posts AITA threads an hour apart about his fiancée wanting a big budget wedding and also wanting to take their honeymoon fund to pay for her sister’s wedding.
NTA. She called you cheap for not wanting to get into debt over a one day event.
Suggest you think hard about whether you want to spend the rest of your life with this person.
Yeah, especially because OP even suggested waiting and saving up. OP is clearly willing to try to find a compromise, but just doesn't want to sacrifice their financial stability.
Yeah either this wedding won't happen (because it shouldn't) or he'll be paying for one hell of a divorce in a few years. Idk how people ignore such massive red flags like this.
Never go into debt for a party. That’s what it is, a party. No matter how dressed up it is.
Just for everyone to have a good understanding of parties that people regularly go into debt for: weddings, “special” birthdays, baby showers, bridal showers, bachelorette/bachelor parties, vow renewals, etc.
Debt belongs on items that are needed, like a mortgage.
Think long and hard about the differences in financial ideals between you and your partner, it’s one of the biggest reasons marriages fail.
Mate, starts with the wedding and is never-ending. The biggest & best & most expensive cars, vacations, house, pets, shoes & handbags, baby clothes, schools, nannies.... Gonna be a lifetime of crippling debt with this one. NTA but good luck
Yeah, I'd say it's a very bad early warning sign. Especially the acting like a brat about it. My wife and I got married in her parents garage with about 20 of our closest family and friends there. Wouldn't change a thing. Was super fun and intimate and we saved so much money.
Sure feels like it! Agreed 100%. We both talked about it and just thought the idea of spending all that money when we could potentially buy a house, a new car down the road, invest, etc... Why is one day more important than all of that?
They can be reasonable on the wedding and still pivot to insane trim levels of home, vehicle, vacations, clothing schools, etc.
I can't imagine starting out with a financially crippling wedding.
Wants aren't needs.
Economic stability should be paramount. You and your fiance should attend premarital counseling and figure out what economic stability looks like for both of you and together as a couple.
Figure out what the rest of your shared goals are, home, cars, schools, travel, etc.
I want a new car! No…you don’t love me!!
I want a bigger house! No…you don’t love me!!!
I want a boyfriend! No…you don’t love me!!!!
That escalated quickly
Couple issues here - you’re discussing budgeting and money in a very concrete way. Your SO is focused on her vision of the idea wedding at all costs. And you’re not “supporting her dream” and saying “yes” to everything.
This is your first big expense together. While you’re making compromises she’s pouting like a spoiled child for not getting her way. Pay attention. She’s using a childish manipulation tactic to get her way.
She’s a grown woman- if she’s old enough to decide to get married she’s old enough to understand how money works on the most basic level.
Has nobody ever said “no” to her before? 🤨
Lay out the cost of the wedding she envisions and what that looks like for your future. Since she’s focused on appearances you can offer a choice - huge wedding now and then living in a less desirable apartment, can’t afford a kid (if you want kids), you can’t take big vacations - no extravagance until it’s paid off.
>
Has nobody ever said “no” to her before? 🤨
>Lay out the cost of the wedding she envisions and what that looks like for your future. Since she’s focused on appearances you can offer a choice - huge wedding now and then living in a less desirable apartment, can’t afford a kid (if you want kids), you can’t take big vacations - no extravagance until it’s paid off.
Well put.
I mean if she wants her big fancy wedding no matter what, I'd just tell her that she has to contribue more for it.
For example, if your budget for a dress is 500, and she wants a 5000 dress, then she should add the remaining 4500.
There is nothing wrong with wanting your fantasy to become your reality, but at the end of the day its your fantasy and therefore your responsability.
NTA man, and good luck to you!
People act and react in a specific way because that’s what they were taught/learned growing up or it’s something that serves their purpose (getting what they want). Regardless, you learn a lot about people when they don’t get their way.
This is major speculation, but it sounds like she’s used to her parents/family caving in because she sulks. 😬 Whiner baby tantrums aren’t cute. It’s pretty embarrassing behavior for an adult IMHO.
That’s why I brought up that this might be their first joint major expense. The fact that she’s selfishly focused on short term gratification is incredibly immature.
NTA. You are about to combine finances and financial responsibilities together. She's giving off a LOT of red flags that she is not on the same page as you concerning that.
Your fiancée is not willing to compromise or listen to your concerns. That’s a big problem. If she is not able to have a conversation & hear your perspective about the situation, then you should not be getting married. Your wedding day is about TWO people choosing to spend their lives together, not about a fantasy or designer dresses. Do not go into debt for a one day event.
I recommend you both meet with a wedding planner. Each of you share your vision for your event & let them know your budget. Let them tell your fiancée her expectations are not reasonable.
NTA
This doesn't bode well for your future.
What will be next? Refusing to speak to you if she wants a home you can't afford?
A car you can't afford?
A private school for kids you can't afford?
And as for the friends sayings just let her have her way. Are they offering money to help pay for it?
NTA but I see some red flags here.
Didn't you post recently about this? Sounds familiar, but there are a lot of lavish brides out there.
NTA. Reconsider the marriage, she wants a party, not a marriage.
Yeah there are… but the difference is many have the wedding they can afford and save to be lavish. Others try to ‘keep up with the Kardashians’ or Jones’ and have weddings they can’t afford….
A dream wedding and a nightmare marriage is what you are signing up for. When you said "we should save up," did you mean you or her? Does she work, or does she expect you to finance the whole wedding and marriage. Is she open to getting a job or a second job to pay for it? Or course not.
This is a sign of things to come. She’s going to want a lavish lifestyle going forward, not care that you can’t afford it and then emotionally manipulate you into getting her way. Are you sure that’s the marriage you want? NTA.
NTA. You are being smart. Having a wedding you can’t afford is a sure way to start your marriage off with a lot of debt. And for what? A party? Don’t give in to her demand, if you do you’ll be paying for it for the next 5-10 years.
Leaving the wedding topic aside, you're learning a few things about your fiancée right now:
* She is not great with finances, and does not think much about going into debt for her whims and dreams.
* If she doesn't get what she wants, she goes straight to emotional blackmail ("if you cared about my happiness...").
* Instead of communication to resolve an issue, she gives you the silent treatment. In the hopes of you just giving in, maybe?
* She doesn't really seem to care what you want from this wedding.
INFO is she financially literate? Have you discussed future goals in terms of finance? If she’s otherwise a sensible person with long-term goals, this might be something she can get over. But if she cannot understand the consequences of debt, she is not ready to be an adult and a life partner.
This is God giving you an offramp... take it. If you can't work this out, your marriage is done before it starts.
Sit down with her and do a full budget, and be sure to ask tough questions. I'd you two can't solve this and treat each other with love and respect, end the relationship.
Round numbers and napkin math...
Lets say after the wedding you put down 40k on a 200k house (20%) at 7.6%. Thats 247k in interest on a 30 year mortgage. Imagine instead you scrounged up an extra 20k for a 60k deposit and thus got a 7.4% interest rate. Now that's 208k interest on the life of the loan.
Now, money now vs money later, rate of return on the stock market, lots of things inform if that is the financially optimal choice. But me, personally, having the metaphorical axe over my head be 40k smaller will be a comfort when we eventually divorce because she's treating the retirement accounts like a slush fund for bachelorette parties and baby showers in between buying designer handbags and shoes.
I would personally never marry someone who is willing to sacrifice so much to have a grand wedding. It is not smart. Investing in your future is a way better option. Draining savings for a wedding is dumb. Going into debt is even dumber. You will still be paying for this wedding after your divorce.
NTA, but you really want to marry a woman who doesn’t respect your boundaries, rather spends money (she doesn’t have) to a one day against your wish, and gives you cold shoulder when you say you can’t afford it.
She sounds like a princess who only cares about herself and can’t think rationally.
If a matter this simple is hard for her, what about when she wants to be a SAHM when you can’t afford it? What if you get sick, will she take care of you, the house, kids and work? My guess is no.
This is a major red flag to me and she doesn’t sound like a loving wife who is eager to start a new chapter with you. Also, it doesn’t make sense to save up 2 years for a lavish wedding so YTA for even suggesting that when your point all along was that you don’t want to spent that much to a designer dress etc. she should be thinking about down payment for a house and other things.
The silent treatment is emotionally abusive. She's not talking to you because you are unwilling to spend money that you literally don't have. Are you sure she's not only marrying you to have 'her special day', because I'm sorry to say it doesn't sound like she's mature enough for marriage.
NTA
NTA
This is where you postpone wedding planning.
Tell her to pull her head in or there will be no wedding.
At this stage I don’t recommend joining finances.
I hate it when the friends say "just do it, its not that bad" but I don't see them offering anything other than dumb comments. Like did you even listen when you were told what happened, I swear they just do it on purpose. NTA
NTA.
Today it's a lavish wedding, tomorrow it will be a lavish baby shower, the day after tomorrow it will be expensive private schools for the kids and designer clothes for them, for you don't want them to feel poor, do you?
Meanwhile you're going to break your back working, trying to live up to her lifestyle, while she'll never be happy with what you can actually give her.
Tell her to go marry an ATM and dump her. Believe me, this is the only way for you to be the winner.
With "no fault" divorce being a thing and the divorce rate currently sitting at around 50%, it is no longer a "once in a lifetime" thing. No sense spending tons of money on something that has a 50% chance of failing.
Edited to add verdict: NTA
Why do feelings go one way? Why must you cave and give her 100% what she wants when you are incredibly uncomfortable and offered a compromise? This isn’t a good sign.
NTA: She wants her princess wedding no matter what & wouldn’t be surprised if she expects a “princess” life.
If you marry her you are definitely going to regret it.
Postpone the planning until she can plan like a sensible adult.
NTA.
You may want to reconsider the relationship on the financial aspect alone.
Anyone who is willing to go into debt when they don't have to isn't to be trusted with making sound financial decisions.
INFO Have you guys sat down and gone over how finances will be once you're married? What your budget will be, your goals will be, how much you'll save, etc etc? And how wedding debt would play into that.
Usually wanting to go crazy and into debt for a wedding isn't a financial mindset that sticks with only the wedding.
This is where, for her, the wedding is more important than the marriage.
She may be too young to get married.
It's stupid to go into debt for a party, a barbie doll dress to be worn once, and crappy wedding food and drunken guests, and let's not forget that most marriages end in divorce. This probably won't be the only wedding for either of you.
Lay up on the engagement for the time being until she comes back down to earth.
IMO weddings are a huge waste of money. And the amount of money you spend on a wedding is inversely proportional to how long the marriage will last. My husband and I went before a judge. We have been married for 25 years.
EDIT: NTA
Top 2 reasons for divorce are finances and communication. She can't come to terms with the finances and is immature by giving the silent treatment. I'm not saying you shouldn't marry her, people can grow, but you should really strongly reevaluate whether or not she can face reality and struggle. The difficult time in life is when you'll need your partner the most.
I would postpone the wedding and begin saving together. Don't reschedule the wedding until the budget is 6 months away from reaching its required level.
In reality the wedding is off.
Or maybe just run away. She sounds a little dim and self-centered and those traits IMHO do not go away, they instead get worse.... we paid off the wedding why can't I have a.... or a.... or our children have private lessons... you should do more hours...
Run away.
If she is planning on being a stay at home mum and yet cannot understand budgets and manage a household budget I would be worried. Household budgets are not simple.
Run away.
Better to learn about this fundamental incompatibility now.
FW is already being a petulant Bridezilla at this early phase at mere arithmetic and your disagreement about debt. That's not a great sign.
OP stand firm on what you're willing to spend out of your individual resources and your shared household budget - and what sort of help from family you'd be willing to accept. (Some parents help nicely, some use it to control you.)
Then leave the rest up to her and let the chips fall where they may.
NTAH
This is the biggest red flag, she is telling you she doesn’t care about the marriage it’s all about the day , and she doesn’t care about the future with debts etc . You’re going to get this wirh a house or car etc .
If you want to keep this wedding you need to be alpha. Go to the room when she is there and pack her a bag . If she says anything say this is over . And pulling silent treatment shows exactly how much of a child you are so go home and Inwill
Cancel everything . If she won’t go call her parents . You can change your mind but she has to know you can leave at any time . Otherwise this is your life
YTA. Why would you marry an idiot? This is your chance to get away, you've seen her true colors, and instead you come to reddit to ask if you should give in to this madness? Maybe you're an idiot, too.
NTA and unless you can get her to see reason I’d move on.
Question before I give you more advice. What are your ages, income, and this “budget” she thinks you guys should spend? You can keep it fairly generalized I’m sure you want to keep this kind of anonymous.
NTA.
If she is going to pay more than half to let her, but an over the budget line for a wedding is way out of the left field. A lot of red flags are rising here buddy.
NTA. She either doesn’t understand finances or is selfish and entitled AF. And btw, yeah the wedding day is a big day, but it’s meaningless compared to the years ahead. (Mine was almost 30 years ago.) Each of you might want to think about that.
Taking on debt for a one time event is rarely a good idea. Most newlyweds are going to be better served by using that money on a house.
Most people fight over money in a marriage. Going into debt just to get married guarantees more fights and stress.
Hard agree. It’s about the person you’re marrying, not the event. I’d marry my fiancé tomorrow in a brown paper bag in the middle of nowhere. But we do want a wedding (our families really do too) so we’re going for it, but keeping it DIY, cheap, and relatively small to avoid going into debt. As a woman too, I agree that we all think about our big day in our head our entire lives. Media really pushed that on us as kids. But you do have to be realistic about it, and she’s not being realistic at all. Anything attached to “wedding” and the cost skyrockets. And typically, you usually spend more than you budget for somewhere, so lowball it. NTA. She needs a reality check and you need to reevaluate how concerned you should be about finances if this is the early argument in your marriage. Make sure you’re on the same page or you’ll really be in trouble later.
I've never heard someone pine w regret about how much more fancy their wedding 'could have been' -- agreed. I have heard people regret they blew what couldve been a house down payment on a wedding, absolutely
Absolutely. Which is why I’m so pro-micro wedding. I have always wanted a traditional wedding, mostly in part to wanting my dad to walk me down the aisle and a father of the bride dance. I realized how important that was to me when he was diagnosed with cancer two years ago (doing so well now one year post-stem cell transplant!). But with budget and knowing that money could go elsewhere, I want to do it small and intimate with people I care about. I’d be much more upset that I blew money on a big fancy party with tons of people that I don’t interact with and that I probably wouldn’t enjoy as much versus investing in our future and still keeping that “traditional” wedding vibe on a tighter budget.
I'm so happy to hear about your dad! This is why stem cell research is so important. I hope he has a long, happy life ahead of him.
Yup. My fiance and I just want to have fun, I don't really care about the grandiosity of it all, we want to have a karaoke booth and a LAN party setup. In my experience, people like her who put ALL the importance on the wedding, and none on the actual marriage, don't stay married long. This girl is so obsessed with her wedding that OP isn't even a factor in her mind. It's all about her, he's just a wallet with a man attached to it. She would have said yes to any man willing to put a ring on it and give her "her wedding".
& starting financial instability and the fighting about it before they're even married.
Don’t think you need to add the “rarely” caveat. Going into debt for a party = dumb idea is universal.
The friend who accuse OP of being cheap can take on the debt themselves.
One of the number one reasons people divorce is because of Finances. If you guys aren’t on the same page, it may not work out in the long run. Putting yourselves in debt just adds extra pressure on top of joining two lives together, it’s not worth it.
It's not just a bad idea it's literally a stupid idea and an entirely frivolous one at that. It's one thing to make a bad decision, but it's entirely different when those are just dumb choices. Also, for what even? Like you are getting married not buying a permanent asset or even something useful. It really is only good for attention and validation. That's the value OP's fiance takes from a wedding. Weddings are luxuries.
Normally you should only go into debt for something that will appreciate in value, like a house or college education. Not a car or a wedding.
The thing I’ve noticed about this is that a lot of couples forget to check whether they’re financially compatible before they get married. It’s a bigger deal than a lot of people think, and financial incompatibility is one of the leading causes of divorce. It’s super important to know what your partner values in terms of spending and saving, and make sure your beliefs and practices are in line with each other. Right now, it does not look like OP and their fiancée are financially compatible.
🎯🎯🎯
The marriage is the meat in the sandwich. The wedding isn't even the bun, it's the soggy lettuce leaf. It's a just party.
I’d think of it as the cheese in a burger. It could be a stinky expensive cheese or basic cheddar or no cheese at all. There’s no right cheese and, in fact, it’s not even necessary for a marriage.
My wife would agree a wedding isn't necessary for a marriage, but might divorce me if I said cheese isn't necessary for a burger.
I’m with your wife here!
Yeah I also want to divorce them tbh
At least one in your life, try brie on a burger
If there is one thing I realized after about 7 years of marriage, was how fucking irrelevant the wedding is to the rest of your marriage. Don't sacrifice your marriage for your wedding. We got remarried on our 10th anniversary by Elvis in Vegas. It was part mockery of the concept of the "wedding" and part reason to get drunk in Vegas with our friends. But we did vow to never wear our blue suede shoes in the rain, and we've taken that pretty seriously.
The only two couples I know who have been together forever-my parents and my friend who married right after college, all had small church weddings with 50 or so attendees and a simple wedding and reception. I asked my parents if they had a fun wedding and they told me by the end they were so tired they feel asleep the first night. Weddings don't mean bumpkins. The fact that OP's girlfriend wants a big wedding above their budget is a huge red flag.
The only thing I remember about my first wedding, honestly, is that the photographer was late.
Ask her if the wedding is more important than you, your future together or kids. Answer will tell you a lot
This. Sounds like she wants her fairytale princess day, not an actual marriage. *--"She accused me of not caring about her happiness and said I was being cheap."* If this isn't manipulation, I don't know what is.
She wants a wedding, not a marriage.
The fact you went over your finances with her, showing that you can’t afford a big lavish wedding and she STILL insists on doing it. Yeah, op needs to put the brakes on this.
Perfectly said.. happens very often these days.
A friend once told me the vicar told him the more expensive the wedding the shorter the marriage a
This is backed up by studies, too. [https://www.csus.edu/faculty/m/fred.molitor/docs/wedding%20expenses%20and%20marriage%20duration.pdf](https://www.csus.edu/faculty/m/fred.molitor/docs/wedding%20expenses%20and%20marriage%20duration.pdf)
Thank you for this. Saved to read later!
Nicest wedding I went to didn’t even last the year.
Oohh! I'm saving this.
For sure! Behind the trash dumpster at the local grocery store will be my next wedding venue!! LOL
So true. The most expensive wedding I attended was indeed a blast, but it was the worst marriage. My in-laws were a justice of the peace at town hall. Married 60 years so far. My parents at their parents house. Married 45 years. My wedding, pretty cheap, 34 years in so far. I splurged on my dress and in retrospect wasn't really necessary
Hubs and I got married 44 years ago in his parent’s living room by a justice of the peace. My off the rack non-wedding dress cost $50, cheap even in those days. Family and a few close friends attended, about 25-30 total. In laws provided hors ‘oeuvres (delicious) and our wedding cake was gifted from a family friend. We were just talking the other day about how much we loved our wedding. Don’t marry someone who wants to spend your future on a one day party.
Yep! Spouse and I had a courthouse wedding, just my MIL as a witness. We ordered our clothes online, one of my MIL's friends made me a little bouquet and a matching butonnieer, I painted rainbow shoes for us (LGBTQ+ wedding and all!) and then as soon as we changed clothes the three of us ran off to Disneyland. 🤣 Granted it's not for everyone and that's okay! We've been together 22 years, married for 9, and we don't regret anything about our wedding. I would have been annoyed if we had spent a fortune and had skipped Disneyland, haha.
My cousin had a long engagement period to plan big wedding. She was engaged for 18 months and divorced 12 months later.
Same here. My wife is a musician and she played for a HUGE wedding. The wedding party was at a swanky country club, with almost 200 guests; they catered it, and had a live band for dancing too... The happy couple separated in about 5-6 months, and divorced. The bride's father told me they still owed on the wedding when they separated.
In my experience it's an accurate statement it cost my ex-wife and I a little over 150$ for our courthouse wedding a dress and ring that lasted 15 years. We saw several friends who had expensive weddings last a fraction of that time.
Yeah, strongest marriage I know out of all my friends was held in a plain 1960s church with the reception in the nearby community hall.
Wife and I did the JP wedding. 25 years this month.
We spent a thousand bucks on ours. Does that mean I'm stuck with my wife forever? I keed, I keed.
Good to hear from Triumph!
This is a tale as old as marriage...
Don't think it's been on the rise in recent years. But I think the number of people who expect more from their partner is increasing.
But hey those Instagram photos won't take themselves! Social media is a goddamn plight on society by telling women and men they should accept nothing less than to be outright delusional. It's fuckin sad man.
She doesnt even really want a wedding, she just wants a big party
A big party for HER! It’s HER day, everyone else is invited to celebrate HER!
I hate this idea as a woman and I hate the way some women do this and then everyone thinks all women are like that. I do want a big wedding but I want it to be a event that represents my partner and I something we have fun planning together going through the experiences to make this day amazing.
I don’t get it. It’s a party. Most people don’t even like going to weddings in the first place. My husband and I spent 8 grand on our wedding. It was outside a bar /restaurant under a tent and we invited close friends and family and a couple coworkers. It was amazing and everyone had fun. The more lavish the more boring it is.
I agree. The older my wife and I get, the more dread having to go to a wedding. The bridal party spends half of the reception time taking pictures.
Agreed. I need several THC gummies just to make it thru the boredom of most weddings. Especially as someone who doesn't drink and hates being around drunk people. If my partner got invited to a wedding that did not allow a +1, I personally would be elated. I'd gladly spent the day doing... anything else.
Hard to tell if it's a wedding or a photo shoot.
I’ve told so many friends and family if they need to cut someone I won’t be hurt if I’m not invited. I’m happy to help with planning and not attend. My favorite weddings have been potluck or BBQs in back yards.
Same here. I will never understand why some women want to spend a fortune, and even go into debt, for a big over the top affair that lasts a day, not to mention the expensive showers and stuff. I just don't get it.
I’m a bit biased because due to being raised in a heavily religious environment, all weddings I’ve ever been to have been dry. So weddings have always just been super dull and boring experiences for me. But even trying to set that aside, I just hate having to get all dressed up and spend an entire day (or at least half a day, and it’s typically on the weekend) at an event where I’ll maybe get to talk to the bride and groom for five minutes? It’s just exhausting
Lol my hubs was in finance. We eloped because: 1) he’s cheap; 2) I don’t like people; 3) why waste all that money on a party when you can put it towards buying a home?
Speaking of big fairy tale princess weddings, didn’t work out so well for Diana.
Where she's Queen For a Day.
Ya know if she wanted a big party that's not impossible on a budget. You can be smart about spending and still have a big, badass, gorgeous party. I think fiancé wants to make a big show for people -- like, look how much dough we get to throw around!
And will invite every exBF to show them what they're missing.
they aren't missing anything...
"they aren't missing anything..." They escaped.
I feel like someone could make so much money by having a pretty venue set up and women could rent timeslots and pretty dresses for photos to get it out of their system.
Yes, agreed. You two may not be as compatible as you think.
OP, you have a couple sets of red flags waving at you. They are totally separate. Bride wants a wedding you cannot afford. That would end the discussion for an adult. Getting and spending that amount of money will impede or destroy your joint plans going into the future: for buying a home, deciding when to have a child, considering future vacations. She wants to trade one day of frivolity for security and careful planning about these and other issues. How can you continue living such a careless, thoughtless woman? Imagine trying to plan decades of married life with that mentality. The second set of issues is with the bride's decision to stonewall you. Silence is the one method of problem-solving guaranteed not to resolve the issue at hand. No other method will accomplish what silence accomplishes: absolutely nothing. You go through hours days weeks of silence, and what has changed? Nothing. How have you passed the time with this person? Has this person dug in her heels at every suggestion of restaurant, every discussion of vacation, every dream of a future life--- with no indication that she hears you at all? If this is how she has behaved, you've seen this day coming. In the past, did you cave in to her wishes, or did she see you struggle and change her behavior? Because you have to assume she is now showing her true colors, in claiming these silly, irrelevant issues are worth dying for. She is demonstrating her inability to face problems and deal with them like an adult. Her digging into silence shows you that you cannot trust her to meet you as an equal, as an adult, about managing a shared life. "My way or the highway" isn't a serious attempt to share responsibility. Her lack of respect shows conclusively that she doesn't love you. The only way to get out of this situation with your integrity intact is say goodbye to this spoiled child
Of course she's silent. She has said everything she has to say about it. She's manipulative and attention seeking OP.
Yep! This won't be the only time she insists on living outside of their means. It will be a constant fight.
This. It’s that simple. 🚩🚩🚩
Far too many do. Not to mention that this "once in a lifetime" statistically also won't be just once. Why people waste money they don't have on one day I'll never know. The question about what's more important is the right one to ask and that may well decide a lot right there. Also, there are two people in this couple. Her happiness isn't more important than his. She's already manipulating him. Not a good start.
I know everyone has different values, but I genuinely can't imagine marrying someone who wants to spend an exorbitant amount on a wedding. I can barely imagine *being friends* with someone who wanted a super extravagant wedding. I didn't have a wedding and most of my friends had small, fun, laid back affairs. The one friend who did have an expensive wedding did it very thoughtfully; it wasn't designer gowns or mansions, it was just a really neat and elegant accommodation for a lot of people. It's not like a moral judgment, I don't think, I just can't imagine having anything *in common* with a person who valued this type of thing. Are they going to make me care about fine China?
$10 says he's not with her for her personality. Which is probably ok cause she's not with him for his personality either.
Give it a few months after the wedding and she'll be complaining about not going on fancy holidays, that the house is too small or not in the poshest suburb...
Or she wants to pop out kids like a rabbit and become a SAHM, because of said kids.
Fuckin facts man. This type of spoiled and rotten doesn't just stop at the wedding. It's pervasive and will rot your marriage from the get.
Damn. That ought to cut deep. OP, please take this into account.
OP might want to re-evaluate their relationship. It sounds like she's actually in love with the wedding, not OP. Women like this don't think about life happening after the wedding. It's very short sighted, self gratifying, and selfish thinking that leads to relationships dissolving very quickly after the wedding.
100% this
"Now, she’s giving me the silent treatment and refusing to discuss the wedding any further. " That's also manipulation and *very* immature.
Facts. Google silent treatment and most refer to it as emotional abuse (and a manipulation tactic used by children to get their way).
Right. She's punishing OP for not doing as she says.
Absolutely the most important thing element, she wants something unrealistic, she’s not offering any solutions like she’ll get a second job, ain’t a few years to save. The best solution is to walk away because if you think this is just how it’s going to be for the wedding, have I got news for you, wait until you see the house she wants. That money could be used for a wonderful elopement/honeymoon and then have an I Do BBQ to celebrate. This idea of debt to be fancy for one day is insane. I would adore if we could find out what the difference in expectations were.
Right? Just don't discuss it. If you don't discuss it, I guess you can't get married. Dodge that bullet
Exactly what I was going to say.
The silent treatment and now not talking to him. Wonder how expensive the ring had to be?
He took it back when she baulked at the low cost. "I will only ever get one wedding ring, you should go all out!"I understand wanting your partner to "go all out" on your ring, because that's something you'll be wearing every day for the rest of your life. That being said, "nice" does not mean "expensive." I told my fiance that I'd rather put money towards getting a house than on my engagement ring. Mine was <$300 and it's the most perfect ring in the world to me.
The huge gawdy rings are ugly and often quality is sacrificed for size. You are absolutely correct that nice is not equal to expensive
I remember talking to a girl once where she said that she’d expect the guy to spend at least 10-15k on the ring and I balked at that. I understand not wanting a cheapo plastic ring, that’s fair - but 10 grand? Fuck that
The silent treatment seals it.
Yeah, and silent treatment, op? She manipulates to get her way?? She's not emotionally mature enough for a marriage.
She sounds like an insufferable nightmare. Op should take this opportunity to dodge a bullet.
“I say toss her groupie ass out the window and let that ho stargaze from outside" ~ Riley Freeman
She doesn't care about your money (that you don't have). She just wants YOU to go into debt for her. I wouldn't. And if I'd asked my OH that when we were talking about our wedding g he would have rightfully told me to fuck off and do it myself if it matters that much. Is she taking on the debt? If not, she is a selfish, juvenile toddler that behaves in a manner not conducive to marriage. Is this what you want for the next 50 years? With children? If not.....don't marry the bitch. Yes.....bitch. And I'm female.....disgusted by her attitude and thought processes. Not ready to be a wife or mother. She only cares about what you will spend on her. If she has shown this before....run, and run now. No man needs a stupid wife like this. They need an intelligent partner, not a 4 year old screaming like Violet in Willy Wonka.
In the post OP says his fiancé is mad at him because they don't have enough money for the wedding she wants, but in his other post (made right after this one) he says that his fiancé is mad at him because she wants to give away their honeymoon fund to her sister so that her sister can have the extravagant wedding she wants and OP doesn't agree. Why would someone who doesn't have enough money be fighting with her fiancé to give away the money they do have? Pretty sure these stories are fake.
[удалено]
This is sneak peek into the rest of your life with this woman. Weddings are once in a lifetime event, so is each anniversary, each birth, every milestone birthday and special even will be just on the other side of what you consider reasonable. Hope she doesn't turn out to have the same mindset about houses, automobiles and vacations. She will bully and insult you ever step of the way and you will be in over your head the whole duration of your marriage if you marry her. This is the way selfish, entitled people operate.
Weddings only happen once, just like birthdays, anniversaries, births and deaths, it's no excuse to go into debt.
>Weddings only happen once I dunno. I know some people who enjoy them so much they keep having more and more as the years go by! ;)
Didn't even realize I was walking into this trap. MIL emptied her 401K, I took on 10K credit card debt, wife added 15K I didn't know about. 18 years later we are 90k+ in credit card debt, with college tuition starting in 2 years for our 4 kids. Every holiday, birthday, and anniversary has to be celebrated(catered event), she has to drive a Lexus, every gift has to be substantial, and we 'need' to take one family vacation, plus 2 weekend trips each summer, cuz that's what her family did growing up. But, ITA everytime I balk at an event, vacation, or credit consolidation/rollover; and I'm therefore wrong with every plan or tool I propose to eliminate or minimize our spending. Doomsday is coming for me; don't walk in my footsteps.
Why did you stay married?
Because it was just one aspect, things were good otherwise. However, the last three years have magnified items so that this has become the overarching issue that now affects everything. 25% income increase vs 50% expense increase and there's no safety margin anywhere.
I can understand your decision. For me, I would also have stayed even just for the kids. Hopefully you at least enjoyed the nice wedding, celebrations, and vacations with your family. Those good memories are priceless. My dad saved diligently and never took on debt, thinking that he would have a good retirement. Then he got lung cancer and passed away at 62. I remember nearing the end when he was going in n out of consciousness, he still mumbled about taking us on a family trip/vacation when he gets better (we never took family vacation not even a weekend trip in 20 years). At least your kids (and hopefully you) will not have this as a regret...
Did you stay because you had low self esteem? I’m assuming you saw these signs before children came into the picture.
I don't enjoy trying to engage with people, she'll talk so much our dog went deaf.(actually occurred!) But yes, I'm far less desirable.
That’s awful, I can’t imagine the weight of a debt like that and the constant underlying stress of knowing you owe all that money.
It is ok to expand the budget for one or two items that make sense. I added a happy hour after the ceremony that included a champaign fountain. The guests attended while we got our photos. It made sense so people were not waiting on us while we got our photos. Edit to add that this only added $200-$300 to my wedding. We had a small guest list under 50 and a really reasonable venue.
Sounds like she just wants the dream wedding, and the groom is just an accessory. 🙈
It’s the perfect introduction to a marriage where the husband is just an accessory. At least OP has been warned.
Fucking run bro. You're not financially compatible. She is an emotional terrorist. Save yourself.
I knew someone who had that big blowout wedding along with a five star honeymoon in Hawaii. He told me like 3 years after the wedding when he sees the wedding dress in the closet he gets irrationally angry because they are still paying that wedding off. Don't be that guy.
Some women want a wedding, not a marriage
And those women are doomed to have more than one once in a lifetime weddings.
This. And if she’s already starting with the silent treatment, divorce is inevitable. Emotional maturity is not evident here.
[удалено]
SHE wants it, it’s about her, not about them. NTA. I would think twice before entering into a marriage with this woman
^^^^ Yep, came here to say this, she doesn't want a marriage, she wants a wedding.
Hummm good luck marrying into that
This whole story is fake as shit. Look at OP’s post history. He posts AITA threads an hour apart about his fiancée wanting a big budget wedding and also wanting to take their honeymoon fund to pay for her sister’s wedding.
NTA. She called you cheap for not wanting to get into debt over a one day event. Suggest you think hard about whether you want to spend the rest of your life with this person.
Yeah, especially because OP even suggested waiting and saving up. OP is clearly willing to try to find a compromise, but just doesn't want to sacrifice their financial stability.
Yeah either this wedding won't happen (because it shouldn't) or he'll be paying for one hell of a divorce in a few years. Idk how people ignore such massive red flags like this.
Never go into debt for a party. That’s what it is, a party. No matter how dressed up it is. Just for everyone to have a good understanding of parties that people regularly go into debt for: weddings, “special” birthdays, baby showers, bridal showers, bachelorette/bachelor parties, vow renewals, etc. Debt belongs on items that are needed, like a mortgage. Think long and hard about the differences in financial ideals between you and your partner, it’s one of the biggest reasons marriages fail.
Mate, starts with the wedding and is never-ending. The biggest & best & most expensive cars, vacations, house, pets, shoes & handbags, baby clothes, schools, nannies.... Gonna be a lifetime of crippling debt with this one. NTA but good luck
Yeah, I'd say it's a very bad early warning sign. Especially the acting like a brat about it. My wife and I got married in her parents garage with about 20 of our closest family and friends there. Wouldn't change a thing. Was super fun and intimate and we saved so much money.
These are the marriages that last. Marrying someone you love with support of family and more focus on the marriage than a grand wedding
Sure feels like it! Agreed 100%. We both talked about it and just thought the idea of spending all that money when we could potentially buy a house, a new car down the road, invest, etc... Why is one day more important than all of that?
This. It's a massive red flag. Get out while you can and while you can afford to.
and fast……
They can be reasonable on the wedding and still pivot to insane trim levels of home, vehicle, vacations, clothing schools, etc. I can't imagine starting out with a financially crippling wedding. Wants aren't needs. Economic stability should be paramount. You and your fiance should attend premarital counseling and figure out what economic stability looks like for both of you and together as a couple. Figure out what the rest of your shared goals are, home, cars, schools, travel, etc.
I want a new car! No…you don’t love me!! I want a bigger house! No…you don’t love me!!! I want a boyfriend! No…you don’t love me!!!! That escalated quickly
NTA Are you sure you want to marry this person? It seems like you both look at financial responsibility differently.
She doesn't exist. His other post at the same time says she wants to spend her honeymoon money on her sister. Chump can't keep his shit straight.
Dammit, I got fooled again. I should know by now to check comment history before I get invested in commenting!
This comment needs to be at the top.
Couple issues here - you’re discussing budgeting and money in a very concrete way. Your SO is focused on her vision of the idea wedding at all costs. And you’re not “supporting her dream” and saying “yes” to everything. This is your first big expense together. While you’re making compromises she’s pouting like a spoiled child for not getting her way. Pay attention. She’s using a childish manipulation tactic to get her way. She’s a grown woman- if she’s old enough to decide to get married she’s old enough to understand how money works on the most basic level. Has nobody ever said “no” to her before? 🤨 Lay out the cost of the wedding she envisions and what that looks like for your future. Since she’s focused on appearances you can offer a choice - huge wedding now and then living in a less desirable apartment, can’t afford a kid (if you want kids), you can’t take big vacations - no extravagance until it’s paid off.
"My dream is to be able to buy groceries without checking my bank account first"
You and me both
This is so relatable
This is the for real.
> Has nobody ever said “no” to her before? 🤨 >Lay out the cost of the wedding she envisions and what that looks like for your future. Since she’s focused on appearances you can offer a choice - huge wedding now and then living in a less desirable apartment, can’t afford a kid (if you want kids), you can’t take big vacations - no extravagance until it’s paid off. Well put. I mean if she wants her big fancy wedding no matter what, I'd just tell her that she has to contribue more for it. For example, if your budget for a dress is 500, and she wants a 5000 dress, then she should add the remaining 4500. There is nothing wrong with wanting your fantasy to become your reality, but at the end of the day its your fantasy and therefore your responsability. NTA man, and good luck to you!
[удалено]
People act and react in a specific way because that’s what they were taught/learned growing up or it’s something that serves their purpose (getting what they want). Regardless, you learn a lot about people when they don’t get their way. This is major speculation, but it sounds like she’s used to her parents/family caving in because she sulks. 😬 Whiner baby tantrums aren’t cute. It’s pretty embarrassing behavior for an adult IMHO. That’s why I brought up that this might be their first joint major expense. The fact that she’s selfishly focused on short term gratification is incredibly immature.
NTA. You are about to combine finances and financial responsibilities together. She's giving off a LOT of red flags that she is not on the same page as you concerning that.
I find it absolutely crazy that people decide to willing go into debt for their weddings.
NTA - Yikes those are some giant red flags.
Your fiancée is not willing to compromise or listen to your concerns. That’s a big problem. If she is not able to have a conversation & hear your perspective about the situation, then you should not be getting married. Your wedding day is about TWO people choosing to spend their lives together, not about a fantasy or designer dresses. Do not go into debt for a one day event. I recommend you both meet with a wedding planner. Each of you share your vision for your event & let them know your budget. Let them tell your fiancée her expectations are not reasonable. NTA
She’s more about the wedding than the marriage
This doesn't bode well for your future. What will be next? Refusing to speak to you if she wants a home you can't afford? A car you can't afford? A private school for kids you can't afford? And as for the friends sayings just let her have her way. Are they offering money to help pay for it? NTA but I see some red flags here.
NTA
Didn't you post recently about this? Sounds familiar, but there are a lot of lavish brides out there. NTA. Reconsider the marriage, she wants a party, not a marriage.
Yeah there are… but the difference is many have the wedding they can afford and save to be lavish. Others try to ‘keep up with the Kardashians’ or Jones’ and have weddings they can’t afford….
"her happiness" shouldn't be about the wedding but about the marriage. NTA. Also "a wedding is a once-in-a-lifetime event". not necessarily.
Yeah, seeing how it starts, she'll probably get a divorce in a few years, and try again with someone else who's willing to shell 100k for her wedding.
As one who has had mor than 1 wedding I'd say NTA. lol
A dream wedding and a nightmare marriage is what you are signing up for. When you said "we should save up," did you mean you or her? Does she work, or does she expect you to finance the whole wedding and marriage. Is she open to getting a job or a second job to pay for it? Or course not.
This is a sign of things to come. She’s going to want a lavish lifestyle going forward, not care that you can’t afford it and then emotionally manipulate you into getting her way. Are you sure that’s the marriage you want? NTA.
NTA, though I suspect you are screwed.
NTA. You are being smart. Having a wedding you can’t afford is a sure way to start your marriage off with a lot of debt. And for what? A party? Don’t give in to her demand, if you do you’ll be paying for it for the next 5-10 years.
NTA Take this for the huge 🚩🚩🚩 this won't be the last time. I highly recommend you treasure the time you had but move on.
Leaving the wedding topic aside, you're learning a few things about your fiancée right now: * She is not great with finances, and does not think much about going into debt for her whims and dreams. * If she doesn't get what she wants, she goes straight to emotional blackmail ("if you cared about my happiness..."). * Instead of communication to resolve an issue, she gives you the silent treatment. In the hopes of you just giving in, maybe? * She doesn't really seem to care what you want from this wedding.
INFO is she financially literate? Have you discussed future goals in terms of finance? If she’s otherwise a sensible person with long-term goals, this might be something she can get over. But if she cannot understand the consequences of debt, she is not ready to be an adult and a life partner.
This is God giving you an offramp... take it. If you can't work this out, your marriage is done before it starts. Sit down with her and do a full budget, and be sure to ask tough questions. I'd you two can't solve this and treat each other with love and respect, end the relationship.
You're going to be broke and in debt for the rest of your life. She needs a rich sugar daddy. You need a sane partner. Not her.
Round numbers and napkin math... Lets say after the wedding you put down 40k on a 200k house (20%) at 7.6%. Thats 247k in interest on a 30 year mortgage. Imagine instead you scrounged up an extra 20k for a 60k deposit and thus got a 7.4% interest rate. Now that's 208k interest on the life of the loan. Now, money now vs money later, rate of return on the stock market, lots of things inform if that is the financially optimal choice. But me, personally, having the metaphorical axe over my head be 40k smaller will be a comfort when we eventually divorce because she's treating the retirement accounts like a slush fund for bachelorette parties and baby showers in between buying designer handbags and shoes.
NTA. You are just a prop for her day as a princess.
I would personally never marry someone who is willing to sacrifice so much to have a grand wedding. It is not smart. Investing in your future is a way better option. Draining savings for a wedding is dumb. Going into debt is even dumber. You will still be paying for this wedding after your divorce.
There's a correlation between how expensive a wedding is and how likely you will get divorced. I would run away it will only get worse for you.
If you marry this harpy yta
NTA, but you really want to marry a woman who doesn’t respect your boundaries, rather spends money (she doesn’t have) to a one day against your wish, and gives you cold shoulder when you say you can’t afford it. She sounds like a princess who only cares about herself and can’t think rationally. If a matter this simple is hard for her, what about when she wants to be a SAHM when you can’t afford it? What if you get sick, will she take care of you, the house, kids and work? My guess is no. This is a major red flag to me and she doesn’t sound like a loving wife who is eager to start a new chapter with you. Also, it doesn’t make sense to save up 2 years for a lavish wedding so YTA for even suggesting that when your point all along was that you don’t want to spent that much to a designer dress etc. she should be thinking about down payment for a house and other things.
NTA, giant red flag and this behavior will continue unfortunately. Suggestion is to seriously think about what you are getting into.
The silent treatment is emotionally abusive. She's not talking to you because you are unwilling to spend money that you literally don't have. Are you sure she's not only marrying you to have 'her special day', because I'm sorry to say it doesn't sound like she's mature enough for marriage. NTA
NTA This is where you postpone wedding planning. Tell her to pull her head in or there will be no wedding. At this stage I don’t recommend joining finances.
I hate it when the friends say "just do it, its not that bad" but I don't see them offering anything other than dumb comments. Like did you even listen when you were told what happened, I swear they just do it on purpose. NTA
NTA. Today it's a lavish wedding, tomorrow it will be a lavish baby shower, the day after tomorrow it will be expensive private schools for the kids and designer clothes for them, for you don't want them to feel poor, do you? Meanwhile you're going to break your back working, trying to live up to her lifestyle, while she'll never be happy with what you can actually give her. Tell her to go marry an ATM and dump her. Believe me, this is the only way for you to be the winner.
With "no fault" divorce being a thing and the divorce rate currently sitting at around 50%, it is no longer a "once in a lifetime" thing. No sense spending tons of money on something that has a 50% chance of failing. Edited to add verdict: NTA
Why do feelings go one way? Why must you cave and give her 100% what she wants when you are incredibly uncomfortable and offered a compromise? This isn’t a good sign.
Don’t marry someone insisting on this level of fiscal irresponsibility. It won’t change.
NTA: She wants her princess wedding no matter what & wouldn’t be surprised if she expects a “princess” life. If you marry her you are definitely going to regret it. Postpone the planning until she can plan like a sensible adult.
NTA. You may want to reconsider the relationship on the financial aspect alone. Anyone who is willing to go into debt when they don't have to isn't to be trusted with making sound financial decisions.
NTA… u guys are not compatible on fundamentals goals. Getting into debt for a wedding is not right
This will only get worse. Think buying a house.
Sounds like she wants a wedding more than she wants a marriage. NTA and you need to talk this out.
This is the course of your future. Consider it carefully.
INFO Have you guys sat down and gone over how finances will be once you're married? What your budget will be, your goals will be, how much you'll save, etc etc? And how wedding debt would play into that. Usually wanting to go crazy and into debt for a wedding isn't a financial mindset that sticks with only the wedding.
This is where, for her, the wedding is more important than the marriage. She may be too young to get married. It's stupid to go into debt for a party, a barbie doll dress to be worn once, and crappy wedding food and drunken guests, and let's not forget that most marriages end in divorce. This probably won't be the only wedding for either of you. Lay up on the engagement for the time being until she comes back down to earth.
IMO weddings are a huge waste of money. And the amount of money you spend on a wedding is inversely proportional to how long the marriage will last. My husband and I went before a judge. We have been married for 25 years.
It was so nice of her to wave this giant red flag before you ended up tied to her. Run far and run fast.
EDIT: NTA Top 2 reasons for divorce are finances and communication. She can't come to terms with the finances and is immature by giving the silent treatment. I'm not saying you shouldn't marry her, people can grow, but you should really strongly reevaluate whether or not she can face reality and struggle. The difficult time in life is when you'll need your partner the most.
I would postpone the wedding and begin saving together. Don't reschedule the wedding until the budget is 6 months away from reaching its required level. In reality the wedding is off. Or maybe just run away. She sounds a little dim and self-centered and those traits IMHO do not go away, they instead get worse.... we paid off the wedding why can't I have a.... or a.... or our children have private lessons... you should do more hours... Run away. If she is planning on being a stay at home mum and yet cannot understand budgets and manage a household budget I would be worried. Household budgets are not simple. Run away.
Better to learn about this fundamental incompatibility now. FW is already being a petulant Bridezilla at this early phase at mere arithmetic and your disagreement about debt. That's not a great sign. OP stand firm on what you're willing to spend out of your individual resources and your shared household budget - and what sort of help from family you'd be willing to accept. (Some parents help nicely, some use it to control you.) Then leave the rest up to her and let the chips fall where they may. NTAH
This is the biggest red flag, she is telling you she doesn’t care about the marriage it’s all about the day , and she doesn’t care about the future with debts etc . You’re going to get this wirh a house or car etc . If you want to keep this wedding you need to be alpha. Go to the room when she is there and pack her a bag . If she says anything say this is over . And pulling silent treatment shows exactly how much of a child you are so go home and Inwill Cancel everything . If she won’t go call her parents . You can change your mind but she has to know you can leave at any time . Otherwise this is your life
YTA. Why would you marry an idiot? This is your chance to get away, you've seen her true colors, and instead you come to reddit to ask if you should give in to this madness? Maybe you're an idiot, too.
NTA and unless you can get her to see reason I’d move on. Question before I give you more advice. What are your ages, income, and this “budget” she thinks you guys should spend? You can keep it fairly generalized I’m sure you want to keep this kind of anonymous.
NTA Is her name Monika? If yes, start calling the wedding "a party".
And you're still trying to marry her?
NTA. If she is going to pay more than half to let her, but an over the budget line for a wedding is way out of the left field. A lot of red flags are rising here buddy.