China now owns only 2% of the treasury bonds compared to a high of ~10% in 2011. The biggest foreign debtor to the US government is Japan not China. And how is this related to the comment you replied to?
Nope, and I sure hope they applied lessons-learned from the V22 Osprey. It killed 2 dozen people before it was even in service. It was so bad that they had to falsify maintenance records. V22 was/is a piece of shit.
One obvious difference is that only the rotor tilts on this one, and on V22 the whole engine pod tilted. This small difference was the cause of at least one fatal V22 crash.
The Osprey has its cult like any piece of mil equipment. One of them was on reddit with a name like “you’re wrong about the Osprey” or something. ANY post relating to an Osprey crash he’d jump in and explain why it was user error and actually the V22 was fine. When one crashed recently, someone in the thread asked for his comment. His wife responded on his account, saying he’d been on that very Osprey and had been killed in the crash.
The Ospreys are loud AF!!! From 10 miles away it sounds like you've stuck your head inside a jet engine and you're ears feel like they're inside a lawnmower!!
A single marine Lt. Col. Falsified records for 21 days, before it entered service. Since then it is still remarkably safe for an aircraft of its type.
In the FY07-FY-21 period, USAF H-60s suffered a higher fatality rate per flight hour than USAF V-22s. In that period, the V-22 across all branches had 32 souls die on board - compared to 55 for black hawks across services (but not counting the Taliban). 28 of those were in US service. Because non-USAF services don't publish hours or fatalities, we can't do a more complete analysis, but... Let's at least try to paint an honest picture here.
Aviation Week did a big article on the falsified maintenance records. You should read it. It wasn't one guy. It was power politics for a big dollar pork barrel program.
Go on.. argue that V22 isn't pork barrel and obliterate your credibility further.
The "one guy" took the fall to protect the higher-ups.
It isn't just shit engineering. It is shit engineering driven by political corruption.
I did read it, and a half-dozen others.
No evidence was found that he was given any order to - only that he "perceived pressure from higher up" to "improve perception of the V-22" and decided to falsify maintenance records.
But keep lying about engineering and politics you don't understand. It's going well so far.
It's also very curious you didn't address any of the actual safety statistics, when that was a big part of your original argument...
I have nearly 30 years as a professional engineer under my belt. The V22 is a piece of shit. I know lots of people become fan boys of various aircraft. That's fine. Buy a t shirt. But the V22 is still a piece of shit.
30 years as a professional engineer and can't read basic statistics so just makes up lies instead. I'm not even a V-22 fanboy - it has real problems and engineering mistakes. You just clearly don't understand them, don't understand how the V-280 fixes them, and don't understand the reality of their operation.
For instance - again - they are actively safer than traditional rotorcraft employed in a similar role. Almost any rotorcraft you point to will have a long history of catastrophic and fatal incidents, and the osprey is no exception. It just gets attention because people like you love to put every death on it down to engineering failures rather than what they truly are - a combination of engineering, piloting, and circumstantial errors that lead to unfortunate deaths.
I understand rotor disc loading. I understand redundancy and I understand mechanical complexity. It was a piece of shit before it got to hardware.
If you're not a fan boy, you must be a member of that corrupt pork barrel system. Fuck you. Your corruption killed innocent people.
You understand "redundancy" but fail to show how the V-22 is in any way insufficient. You understand "mechanical complexity"... but yet you don't explain why the V-22 is somehow overzealous in this regard. You simply keep calling it a pork barrel system, like that means anything.
I'm not involved with the V-22 in any way, engineering or operation, either. Your absolute insistence that anyone who understands things better than you do is simply a corrupt and evil person shows just how little you actually know about anything in the aviation world.
A significant proportion - even the majority - of souls lost on board an osprey were due to pilot error. The recent Japanese crash is one of the only ones that could have involved anything like a mechanical failure unique to the osprey - vortex ring state is a common occurrence in helicopters, as are crashes from operating outside of envelope. So that accident, along with the June 2022 deaths from hard clutch engagement, are the only fatal accidents really attributable to the V-22 design.
And many more deaths occur in helicopters due to their inherent design issues over that same period. An engineer should understand the difference between deaths and deaths caused by engineering failures.
Show me another aircraft that spent 19 years undergoing testing full of Marines and it'll be easy. You're just showing that you don't understand what "in service" means for the military.
Oh, and those 30 fatalities? Only four of them were due to engineering failures directly attributable to the V-22 (a software problem). The others were due to vortex ring state (which the V-22 deals with better than traditional rotorcraft) and an engine fire (which happens to everything all the time).
But anyways - the CH-53 killed 66 within fifteen months of entering service. That's worse than all 35 years of osprey flights to date.
For you downvoters. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_V-22_Osprey%23:~:text%3DFour%2520crashes%2520killed%2520a%2520total,a%2520total%2520of%252032%2520people.&ved=2ahUKEwiU6PiQg-GFAxVckIkEHYoSCXUQFnoECBUQBQ&usg=AOvVaw05i_-baOaiP45kB9Weujh8
I'm surprised that more of this type of aircraft hasn't crashed. I'm a senior (i.e. old) software engineer and I can't begin to imagine how complex just the flight control software is for these beasts. .
Just imagine how many different subsystems it has, all the different API's, languages, safety functionality, fly by wire stuff. It makes my head hurt just contemplating it.
That these hyper complex engineering wonders ever flew is a miracle to me.
[A nacelle (/nəˈsɛl/ nə-SEL) is a streamlined container for aircraft parts such as engines, fuel or equipment. When attached entirely outside the airframe, it is sometimes called a pod, in which case it is attached with a pylon or strut and the engine is known as a podded engine.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacelle)
They shouldn't it's a superior design compared to a standard helicopter, though it needs more development. I would like to see a four rotor design or even a jet engine based concept/design similar to the fictional Orca from C&C games.
edit: just wanted to add that I think Sikorsky's dual rotor with a pusher prop was better in the short term, but it didn't really meet the range requirements.
The Sikorsky offering really didn't offer any benefit and had a fuckton of drawbacks. It didn't compete on the two biggest things they wanted from the program - speed and range - and it barely flew compared to the V-280, with lots of teething troubles Bell simply didn't face.
Four tiltrotors don't really give any benefit - you just double complexity and in return you get... Pretty much nothing. Disc loading would probably be minorly better but there's a reason you don't see even traditional helicopters with more than two rotors.
FOR THE BROTHERHOOD
Ad Victoriam
Ad Victoriam!
What helicopter is this? Looks like an Osprey?
That's a V-280. US army will start replacing some of its blackhawks with these by 2030.
Can Canada get some of your old equipment, we’re still running WW2 vintage equipment lol
No the Blackhawks are all going straight to our suburban police departments, sorry.
Our submarines don't come back up and our helicopters are doing their best to copy them
That's safer than the other way around!
Other than the rifles the Canadians Rangers use up in the north what else is WWII era?
It looks soo goofy
It looks like a Blackhawk and an Osprey had an ugly baby
I thought that got cancelled recently
The Attack Variant got shelved. The Assault Variant is still moving forward.
Damn I just watched a YouTube about it -- now I see what I want for Xmas!! I might have to join the Army so I can fly one!!! #They look BAD AZZ!!!
Amazing what you can buy without money and only debt Ill bet they are not cheap? 10 mill $ each or so?
43 million
40 mill more in debt, nice
We're in debt because the politicians gave their rich friends massive tax cuts over the last 40 years, not because of the army buying helicopters.
LOL, sure! USA owes China 34.4 trillion dollars as we speak, and that number is only growing
China now owns only 2% of the treasury bonds compared to a high of ~10% in 2011. The biggest foreign debtor to the US government is Japan not China. And how is this related to the comment you replied to?
They use money they dont have? Thiefs are what they are, nothing more and nothing less
Nope, and I sure hope they applied lessons-learned from the V22 Osprey. It killed 2 dozen people before it was even in service. It was so bad that they had to falsify maintenance records. V22 was/is a piece of shit. One obvious difference is that only the rotor tilts on this one, and on V22 the whole engine pod tilted. This small difference was the cause of at least one fatal V22 crash.
The Osprey has its cult like any piece of mil equipment. One of them was on reddit with a name like “you’re wrong about the Osprey” or something. ANY post relating to an Osprey crash he’d jump in and explain why it was user error and actually the V22 was fine. When one crashed recently, someone in the thread asked for his comment. His wife responded on his account, saying he’d been on that very Osprey and had been killed in the crash.
I don't think it is a v22 cult so much as paid trolls to support the pork barrel program. It is far too consistent to be just fanboys.
The Ospreys are loud AF!!! From 10 miles away it sounds like you've stuck your head inside a jet engine and you're ears feel like they're inside a lawnmower!!
A single marine Lt. Col. Falsified records for 21 days, before it entered service. Since then it is still remarkably safe for an aircraft of its type. In the FY07-FY-21 period, USAF H-60s suffered a higher fatality rate per flight hour than USAF V-22s. In that period, the V-22 across all branches had 32 souls die on board - compared to 55 for black hawks across services (but not counting the Taliban). 28 of those were in US service. Because non-USAF services don't publish hours or fatalities, we can't do a more complete analysis, but... Let's at least try to paint an honest picture here.
Aviation Week did a big article on the falsified maintenance records. You should read it. It wasn't one guy. It was power politics for a big dollar pork barrel program. Go on.. argue that V22 isn't pork barrel and obliterate your credibility further. The "one guy" took the fall to protect the higher-ups. It isn't just shit engineering. It is shit engineering driven by political corruption.
I did read it, and a half-dozen others. No evidence was found that he was given any order to - only that he "perceived pressure from higher up" to "improve perception of the V-22" and decided to falsify maintenance records. But keep lying about engineering and politics you don't understand. It's going well so far. It's also very curious you didn't address any of the actual safety statistics, when that was a big part of your original argument...
I have nearly 30 years as a professional engineer under my belt. The V22 is a piece of shit. I know lots of people become fan boys of various aircraft. That's fine. Buy a t shirt. But the V22 is still a piece of shit.
30 years as a professional engineer and can't read basic statistics so just makes up lies instead. I'm not even a V-22 fanboy - it has real problems and engineering mistakes. You just clearly don't understand them, don't understand how the V-280 fixes them, and don't understand the reality of their operation. For instance - again - they are actively safer than traditional rotorcraft employed in a similar role. Almost any rotorcraft you point to will have a long history of catastrophic and fatal incidents, and the osprey is no exception. It just gets attention because people like you love to put every death on it down to engineering failures rather than what they truly are - a combination of engineering, piloting, and circumstantial errors that lead to unfortunate deaths.
I understand rotor disc loading. I understand redundancy and I understand mechanical complexity. It was a piece of shit before it got to hardware. If you're not a fan boy, you must be a member of that corrupt pork barrel system. Fuck you. Your corruption killed innocent people.
You understand "redundancy" but fail to show how the V-22 is in any way insufficient. You understand "mechanical complexity"... but yet you don't explain why the V-22 is somehow overzealous in this regard. You simply keep calling it a pork barrel system, like that means anything. I'm not involved with the V-22 in any way, engineering or operation, either. Your absolute insistence that anyone who understands things better than you do is simply a corrupt and evil person shows just how little you actually know about anything in the aviation world. A significant proportion - even the majority - of souls lost on board an osprey were due to pilot error. The recent Japanese crash is one of the only ones that could have involved anything like a mechanical failure unique to the osprey - vortex ring state is a common occurrence in helicopters, as are crashes from operating outside of envelope. So that accident, along with the June 2022 deaths from hard clutch engagement, are the only fatal accidents really attributable to the V-22 design. And many more deaths occur in helicopters due to their inherent design issues over that same period. An engineer should understand the difference between deaths and deaths caused by engineering failures.
Name another aircraft that had 30 fatalities before it was even operational.
Show me another aircraft that spent 19 years undergoing testing full of Marines and it'll be easy. You're just showing that you don't understand what "in service" means for the military. Oh, and those 30 fatalities? Only four of them were due to engineering failures directly attributable to the V-22 (a software problem). The others were due to vortex ring state (which the V-22 deals with better than traditional rotorcraft) and an engine fire (which happens to everything all the time). But anyways - the CH-53 killed 66 within fifteen months of entering service. That's worse than all 35 years of osprey flights to date.
Fuck off. Your corruption killed people.
For you downvoters. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_V-22_Osprey%23:~:text%3DFour%2520crashes%2520killed%2520a%2520total,a%2520total%2520of%252032%2520people.&ved=2ahUKEwiU6PiQg-GFAxVckIkEHYoSCXUQFnoECBUQBQ&usg=AOvVaw05i_-baOaiP45kB9Weujh8
Well said. And TIL Vortex Ring State - cool. Well, not if you're in it it's not.
Yeah vortex ring state is especially bad if you have 2 rotors cuz uneven lift means youre upside-down at low altitude. Not ideal.
It's huge for sure, but the perspective makes it look absolutely enormous
Very tiny army men?
I'm surprised that more of this type of aircraft hasn't crashed. I'm a senior (i.e. old) software engineer and I can't begin to imagine how complex just the flight control software is for these beasts. . Just imagine how many different subsystems it has, all the different API's, languages, safety functionality, fly by wire stuff. It makes my head hurt just contemplating it. That these hyper complex engineering wonders ever flew is a miracle to me.
V-280 valor. It's a nacelle, not a pod.
[A nacelle (/nəˈsɛl/ nə-SEL) is a streamlined container for aircraft parts such as engines, fuel or equipment. When attached entirely outside the airframe, it is sometimes called a pod, in which case it is attached with a pylon or strut and the engine is known as a podded engine.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacelle)
So where does the dilithium go?
In the crystal chamber of the reactor. Duh.
In the crystal chamber of the reactor. Duh.
Huh, looks closer to the Vertibird from Fallout than the Osprey (it’s potential inspiration) did.
Pelican 1 beginning ascent!
That thing is gonna spread a lot of democracy...
DEMOCRACY IS NON-NEGOTIABLE
Ah another tilt-rotor... Hopefully the engineers/designers learned from the mechanical shit show the Osprey was.
They're never going to give up on the osprey concept.
They shouldn't it's a superior design compared to a standard helicopter, though it needs more development. I would like to see a four rotor design or even a jet engine based concept/design similar to the fictional Orca from C&C games. edit: just wanted to add that I think Sikorsky's dual rotor with a pusher prop was better in the short term, but it didn't really meet the range requirements.
The Sikorsky offering really didn't offer any benefit and had a fuckton of drawbacks. It didn't compete on the two biggest things they wanted from the program - speed and range - and it barely flew compared to the V-280, with lots of teething troubles Bell simply didn't face. Four tiltrotors don't really give any benefit - you just double complexity and in return you get... Pretty much nothing. Disc loading would probably be minorly better but there's a reason you don't see even traditional helicopters with more than two rotors.
Hopefully it will be less crashy compared to v-22
The osprey
Valor**