Weird, your comment is an hour old and nothing here?
Alright Cons, come out come out come out, now's your chance, what good things, (with evidence of it's after effects) have the UCP done?
For the countless posts here on why power is expensive, here is an article from 2018 that shows the cost was brought on through NDP governance. Putting a temporary cap in place for optics while paying utility companies some $8.3M per month for the actual cost.
The market has been deregulated since the mid 90s, this huge spike in price didn’t happen until the NDP were in. The UCP was critical of the shift in energy resourcing and said this will end up costing more and lo and behold, here we are.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4675611
So, they were protecting from a 3 cent hike. From 6.8 to 9.28. since deregulation we've seen 31 on variable and our transmission fees have ballooned. To blame this on subsidies from 2018 is laughable. Also we used our carbon tax for that subsidy. The one the UCP threw away and gave to Ottawa who they supposedly hate. Pretty stupid move if you ask me.
Tell me again how companies that were subsidized to continue making a profit is the NDPs fault? That was a measure to protect vulnerable Alberta's. Something we know the UCP is categorically against.
“Transmission fees have ballooned” …. The UCP was critical of shifting energy resourcing saying this will come with large cost impact.
And, they want a shift too, just gradually and with sustainability. If you remove all the cheaper reliable sources and pair that with all sorts of new infrastructure and their “transmission” all at once, the result is inflated costs.
We pay those subsidies, that’s still our cost. Carbon tax is also our cost, and if it’s going there it’s not coming directly back to the public.
It’s the NDPs fault because their decisions (shifting power sources) is what led to higher costs too quickly, but they didn’t own that. The costs are what they are and proper compensation is justified. Putting a cap on rates and essentially paying the difference under the table, for optics, then having the cap expire in the next term and point the finger at the opposition for your interference is sleazy. Unjust blame.
They made it so no renewables projects can proceed and they have no go zones setup in areas that are incredible for resources like wind. I'm not sure how that positions them to transition ever?
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/alberta-ucp-danielle-smith-renewable-energy-restrictions
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-viewscapes-buffer-zones-renewables-map-1.714536
That map is better than the early reports I had seen. Now we'll see what happens when projects are proposed.
Renewables aren’t band, even the pause was only on projects over a certain capacity. Now it’s only on certain areas and that may change as progress happens. They show interest in more than wind and solar as well. This is reiterated in the first 4 minutes of this video, from the source:
https://www.youtube.com/live/IQyKLyvhMis?si=mrs9zCn2xAtBdOwC
This is consistent with measured progressive implementation. Although I agree billions in investment through renewables sounds great, looking past that, these companies will want to collect on this investment, that comes from us, not to mention impacts to other industries … agriculture, tourism et al and the literal landscape.
We had 18 billion on the table that got scrapped because the UCP wanted caution for the first time in their lives. We've never slowed down for oil and gas, forgive me if I'm skeptical.
Deferred. Although I’ll agree you won’t recoup all the potential unfortunately. Renewables are optional supplemental, o&g is the primary source, the backbone to our survival and why we are able to live as well as we do. Everyone uses oil and gas every day and the global demand is only increasing, despite trying to offset some of the energy sources, which should happen as well.
It's not a binary problem. That's my issue with these policy decisions, it's treated as if it were binary.
The longer we delay beginning a transition the harder the swings will be when we do. The oil and gas companies we hang ourselves with have already diversified.
We do have a great start on renewables already, there are a number of completed projects and projects in construction (which unfortunately the trade off is higher costs to end users). I think the brakes are coming on a bit because of these costs to Albertans as well as, we are so well positioned for renewables that we could really lose ourselves in growing pains and don’t want to get ahead of ourselves.
You don’t have to be even slightly left leaning to see how terrible the UCP is for the province. This isn’t the usual case of conservatives vs progressives, you surely must see this. Our government is taking orders from religious zealots and is pushing stuff they didn’t campaign on and have no mandate for. I think it’s really disingenuous to say that people are in a left wing echo chamber on this sub because of their hatred for the UCP. Every single day we’re hearing extremely troubling stuff coming from our government that nobody in the province wants. People were concerned about the APP and they said they weren’t campaigning on it and it would not be something they were immediately pursuing. They said they weren’t campaigning on weird Alberta police force, now it’s being thrust upon us. They’ve halted necessary hospital construction. They’ve decided we all have to suffer austerity so we can grow our heritage fund for the future. What future?? What future can Albertans expect if we aren’t funding healthcare and education properly when we have the money to do so. We’re the richest province and we’re being held down by our authoritarian government for no good reason other than weird ideological spite. They’re fucking the future of the province by not allowing renewable energy sources to thrive in a place with a population and environment primed for it to succeed. We’re squandering our future while some backwards, uneducated homeschooled pastor runs the show. The guy who is openly directing our government literally posted a tweet with a burning pride flag. Wtf is it gonna take for people to understand that no, both sides aren’t the same. What a childish take.
What are you even talking about; there is plenty of civilized discussion. You can’t be mad that the majority of people on this one platform don’t agree with you..if you want certain posts; then post it but you can’t be upset that not everyone agrees with you; that’s not civil discourse. It sounds like you’re only comfortable with content and discussion that reflects you and your views.
Not at all. I enjoy open exchange of ideas. I'm a Libertarian who disapproves of all partisan politics. I'm seeing fiercely one-sided partisanship here. Borderline hate speech. This sub seems really angry about living in the most prosperous province in Canada.
Again you can’t be upset that people don’t share your opinions. People here are just as free to hate on the UCP as much as you are free to love them. You are literally upset that you can’t find people who see things like you. You are bothered that people are openly exchanging ideas about hating what the UCP have done to this Province; why does that upset you? I’m not sure about what hate speech you’re referring to; examples? I’m glad you love this Province but not all of us agree and we are allowed to vocalize it.
This is where you show your cards “This sub seems really angry about living in the most prosperous province in Canada.” So no one can speak up about things they don’t like? You literally are saying no one’s allowed to dissent here and that’s not very Libertarian of you now is it? I’m allowed to hate what the UCP are doing and I’m allowed to voice it online. I’m sorry that bothers you but maybe consider if you are actually a Libertarian or not because your comments are not reflecting your stated beliefs.
>What are your thoughts on forcing teachers to out gay kids to their parents?
>
>Banning puberty blockers for trans kids?
They are a libertarian, there is no way they agree with any of that stuff........
And what exactly is the benefit of living in the most prosperous province in the country? What do we get? We have no doctors and our hospitals are bursting at the seams. Classroom sizes are huge and we don’t have enough schools to accommodate our growing population. Our utilities cost a fortune as do our insurance plans. What exactly are we getting from being so prosperous? The ability to gloat that we give oil and gas companies a whole bunch of money and we make them nice and rich while we suffer? Seriously dude, grow up. Nobody thinks you’re smart or somehow more open minded because you disapprove of partisan politics. You aren’t better than anyone because you think aligning yourself with a party based on your values and beliefs is somehow negative. Why should anyone give equal opportunity to a party that doesn’t at all represent what they believe is right for society?
Insurance costs less in Alberta than the interior of BC. It is impossible to access healthcare in BC.
Whatever this sub is rotten the core. Wankers can't resist the down vote arrow. Bye.
>I believe Albertans are capable of sharing ideas without so much hostility.
>Whatever this sub is rotten the core. Wankers can't resist the down vote arrow. Bye.
That didn't take long.
What’s sad here dude is that you come in here with both barrels cocked and then don’t get the blowey you were expecting so you turn tail and name call. If you’re going to state big claims, actually have the spine to back them up.
[Alberta's insurance costs have surpassed BC's quite some time ago.](https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/ca/news/auto-motor/most-expensive-provinces-for-auto-insurance-premiums-revealed-432632.aspx)
And BC is making improvements, while Alberta is losing ground when it comes to wait lists and other healthcare metrics. [Even the astroturf org, the Fraser institute states we have the longest wait lists in Canada.](https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/ca/news/auto-motor/most-expensive-provinces-for-auto-insurance-premiums-revealed-432632.aspx)
"Asks" for reasonable conversation, immediately starts making unsubstantiated claims and derogatory remarks, complains that the whole sub is rotten and full of "wankers".
The downvotes are warranted. OP and his fellow right-wing trolls didn't come here to discuss in good faith.
"Not at all. I enjoy open exchange of ideas. I'm a Libertarian who disapproves of all partisan politics. I'm seeing fiercely one-sided partisanship here. Borderline hate speech. This sub seems really angry about living in the most prosperous province in Canada."
That post got 27 downvotes.
OP started reasonable, then received more and more downvotes. The "wanker" comment is his least downvoted.
Libertarian? No real libertarian would be simping for a government that is taking away the rights of parents of transgender kids, and trying to destroy the entire market for green technology.
Freedom doesn't mean just supporting the rights of people you like, it means supporting everyone's rights. You are just a conservative who calls themselves Libertarian because you think its edgier or something.
Run of the mill, boring conservative with corporatist leanings -- wanting your side on top, and only your side. You call everything you don't like socialism, so that you can feel justified in your hatred.
Any time anyone or anything you dislike is too successful or popular, you decide that the government or socialists must have intervened, because your beloved right wing corporate heroes are not being worshiped as you think they should be.
You are no different than the christian right who cherry picks their bible to create a prosperity gospel, where they are the inheritors of gods blessings, except instead of cherry picking the bible, you cherry pick economic statements that back up you inherent worship of the merchant princes who run the corporations.
Oh really? Have you lived in Mississauga? Have you tried Burnaby? Maybe check out Halifax.
Alberta has, by far, the best average income to expense ratio in the country. If we are talking about people who are fully dependent on the government to exist, you are correct, Alberta is not the place to be.
Ok, this one’s long.
There are a couple of characters in this sub that are very fanatic and love the garbage memes and all that, but most of the discussion here really isn’t general “I hate UCP” stuff. It’s about news and specific things that are happening because of this government’s actions. I probably wouldn’t be considered left enough by the self-proclaimed left, and I don’t understand how conservatives aren’t worried about the party they voted for and the things they’re doing.
It’s not that I disagree with their point of view, it’s that they’re clearly really bad at their jobs. As somebody else said here, this isn’t just typical conservatives vs. liberals/NDP. It’s that this is one of the most mediocre, self-serving groups of politicians I’ve ever seen in my life, and you can trace problems that we’re living right now very clearly to policies and decisions they’ve made. Adriana LaGrange is a person without the knowledge to be leading education, let alone health. The environment minister is meant to be decoration because of the party’s ideological hang-ups. There’s a religious nutjob ignorant guy claiming to be driving the party to his own agenda and responsible for placing politicians as he pleases, and the Premier not only doesn’t deny the rumours, but keeps him close like he’s a friend and advisor.
I grew up in a different country where corruption was on the menu at every level of government, nothing surprises me. But here I’m finally shocked at how openly corrupt this party is and how little their followers care about the things they’re not even bothering to hide. I don’t have any traditional love for either of these parties, my parents didn’t vote for them. I came to Alberta with an open mind and I’m surprised to see AB conservatives cutting their noses to spite their faces every single time. What they think is ideological alignment trumps their own best interest.
You talk about the most prosperous province, however our cost of living took a massive hit thanks to some of this government’s decisions and every time I see somebody ranting about “thank god Notley is gone” and ask them what this government has done that tangibly improved their lives, they don’t have an answer. Or they say something that never happened, like “lowered income taxes.”
I’m all for discussion and nobody should stop you from starting threads about things you think are good and hearing different sides. You should be welcome here. But, fanatics aside, I think people are right to be worried and angry about very specific things that are happening.
Thank you for the rational response.
I live in BC and Alberta. I am very familiar with the positives and negatives in both provinces. I can assure you that any affordability issues Albertans are experiencing are amplified in BC. Canada is experiencing a massive contraction in quality of life for the population because too many believe the economy is zero sum. Activists have ensured that productivity and universal prosperity is impeded at every turn. This nation's potential is unlimited, but the population is overwhelmingly anti growth and anti industry. In fact, we have an accepted culture of vilifying all industrial activity.
Conservative supporters are far more level-headed than certain radicals in this sub portray us. We just want to see tax dollars used efficiently, we want to see steady economic growth, we aren't obsessed with gender identity, we believe in stable family units, we dislike crime, we balance our household budgets, we work for a living, we are usually not public sector workers. There are many rational reasons why we vote the way we do. I'm not seeing the same corruption in the UCP that you are. To be honest, the only thing they really fucked up was not fulfilling the middle class income tax break election promise. I've spoken directly with my MLA about that bullshit.
I see the Alberta NDP as being beholden to the absolutely despicable federal NDP. Jag and JT's enormous deficit spending and debt has devalued the Canadian peso to the point that it costs $7.99 for a head of iceberg lettuce these days. Money created, that is not backed by productivity, is inflationary, period. Fuck Chuck Keynes, the past 8 years were no the time for irresponsible spending sprees. Now, we are all going to suffer the consequences. Especially the working class which will have to pay for everything.
Yeah, I disagree. Only focusing on the tax money here for now.
If you’re actually interested in seeing tax dollars used efficiently (not a conservative trait, but I get it, it’s always been oversimplified and advertised that way), you should be very unhappy with what’s happened over the past few years. Why aren’t you?
- The famous Turkish Tylenol purchase was a terrible decision made in a rush exclusively to make a political point. It took literal days for the feds to fix the scarcity issue, and by then our government had already jumped the gun to buy something just to say “F Trudeau, we’ll fix it ourselves.” Because the anti-Trudeau show always comes first. We ended up with millions worth of unusable medication that doesn’t even meet Health Canada’s standards. You can’t tell me this was a good idea or a competent action.
- We spent millions of dollars on an unnecessary “war room” designed to indoctrinate people into liking Oil & Gas. It didn’t work. If you know anything about marketing, you’ll know that there’s a price per click or conversion that determines if a campaign is effective. The price of the campaign per conversion was by all standard ridiculously high, because very few people responded to it. Who was it even for? Why did we have ads in **Times Square**? Do you know how much that costs? How is this a good expense while we don’t have enough hospital or school infrastructure?
- Jason Kenney promised to remove the provincial carbon tax (money we had control over) knowing very well that we would automatically go under the federal one (but he knew his voters didn’t understand that part, and only wanted to say “in your face, Notley!”). Then spent millions on lost court fights against Ottawa about it. He could’ve used the provincial carbon tax however he wanted, but let’s just throw away millions on our “we hate the feds” show instead, right?
- Danielle is doing the same. Lost fights with Ottawa. Lost money on a dumb “tell the feds” campaign that is a scream to the void because the other provinces aren’t having the same obsession with attacking renewable energy. UCP is threatening that we’ll be left in the dark when that depends 100% on our grid capacity, and they didn’t even mention investment to improve that until a few weeks ago after the emergency outage warning. We’re the only province having this issue, yet we have a whole anti-feds campaign about it.
- UCP tells the rest of Canada that “Alberta is calling,” drives housing prices up in Calgary and there’s no adjustment to the population growth. Many of us don’t have a family doctor and now new people are coming that will need one.
- They bet more than $1B (because that’s what it was, a gamble, not a strategic decision) on a pipeline that depended on an international election, after one of the candidates had said clearly that he would kill the project if elected.
- We lost millions in revenue on tax breaks with no strings attached to O&G companies that generated zero jobs and some even left.
- But coming back to Danielle since we can’t necessarily blame her for Kenney’s bad decisions: She’s spending money on a pension plan nobody asked for and specifically lied about during campaign. Even just the referendum is millions of tax money. And with their track record with teachers pensions, way too many people are definitely not cool with this group managing our pension funds. Spending money on an unwanted police force, coming up with funds out of nowhere to replace what the RCMP does here with federal funding.
- The Dynalife investment and subsequent reversal. There was no need for this (if you want to chalk it up to ignorance and not corruption, that’s on you to give the benefit of the doubt). We lost money setting that up, and more money undoing it because they didn’t have capacity to completely replace the work of APL.
I could go on, but how can you see this and say “hey, we support them because we just want to see our tax dollars put to good use”? This isn’t leftist fanaticism, it’s just a recount of really shitty waste of our dollars that got us nothing in return.
In the end it’s like screaming at clouds.
I don’t like the division, but it’s clear conservatives in Alberta live in this different reality.
I think of myself as someone who just wants a government that represents its constituents and is responsible and transparent with taxpayer money.
I’ve been called horrible names literally bullied off every other form of social media for expressing myself, but you’re also bang on about the kind of rage farming on anti-UCP posts on Reddit.
It’s like there is no middle ground, it’s very frustrating.
I’d like to see more constructive dialogue in general.
Thx for your perspective. Focus on common objectives would be a great path forward. The problem is that left-wing politics have become super ingrained with anti growth and anti industrial philosophy. We simply can not tax ourselves into prosperity. We do require a productive economy. Right-wing politics have too many social regulators and religious elements. The lack of middle ground is problematic. So called "classical liberals" no longer exist. Polarization is definitely a problem.
Regarding your point about federal expending and inflation, we must be clear that it is not due to uncontrolled federal spending (at least totally) as you mention, although I agree that federal should not spent billions of dollars by example on a pipeline for the large corporations benefits. Inflation it is a global phenomenon that is due to global factors. My friends who live in other countries tell me how expensive things are everywhere and in many countries the ratio is much higher than Canada, in fact we are not so bad and below the USA and several European and Latinamerican countries that have a higher inflation. My question is all of this global problem is created by Justin's expenses and incredible power? No. Blame Putin and the war in Ukraine to drive the oil price up, disruption on supply chain, corporate greed, natural disasters by example cocoa price is increasing due to poor harvests in Africa due to droughts, so be prepare to pay more for you easter choco. Same with olive oil price is increasing by droughts and high temperatures in Spain and all these blame climate change not JT. These are the facts not what a politician is selling for your vote.
Cool can you tell me the merits of buying 80 million dollars worth of Turkish Tylenol?
Let's have a meaningful exchange of ideas in the marketplace of ideas
Especially when you put it in the context that Manitoba expanded their school breakfast and lunch programs for $30 million. That’s value for money. Imagine if we had invested that Turkish Tylenol money wisely into feeding school aged kids.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7069659
Exactly; I think about it every damn time the Turkish Tylenol thing comes up or I see parents on FB moms groups asking for milk and school snacks because they have tapped out resources at the Food Bank.
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On par with $20 Billion worth of expired and subsequently flushed COVID shots. There is no limit to government waste. All parties suck.
There's definitely merit to manufacturing essential medical supplies locally.
Because that never happened. If you want to have an open and honest conversation, it helps to start by being honest
https://nationalpost.com/news/most-unused-covid-19-vaccines-will-expire-at-the-end-of-the-year-auditor-general/wcm/bdc3760e-af65-40c3-ad45-6a42b7dbcbb0/amp/
Differences:
* vaccines were bought in advance based on expected uptake but uptake was lower than expected
* the Turkish Tylenol purchase amount was not based on expected usage.
* vaccine purchase was researched and vetted. Doses were standardized.
* [the Turkish Tylenol was garbage](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/alberta/article-documents-show-childrens-medication-imported-from-turkey-clogged-tubes/)
This is standard conservative rhetoric. "Both situations involve money lost on medication therefore they're the same" is an argument that only works on the dim bulbs.
You can't tell me with a straight face that the UCP did any research beyond "i know a guy" self dealing.
You should answer the question clearly, not with a disproven Whataboutism.
You want the UCP hate to stop, well stop doing thing we hate like lying when facts corner you instead of being non-partisan, aka, honest. Unfortunately the MO of the UCP and it's "supporters" is to lie boldly, never acknowledge any inconvenient facts, treat every valid question as a personal attack and run away while acting like being debated is persecution.
It's frustrating to try and have real conversations with a group that refuses to be honourable and honest, that acts like children on the playground refusing to follow a games rules once they start losing and refuses to take responsibility for their own actions.
Yeah, there is hatred of the UCP, and the UCP will make it grow daily until either they stop harming the majority of Albertans or they are no longer a government, they removed the middle ground on this, we've just finally stopped playing nice, now we're playing fair.
You provided nothing but complaints and the genuine offers to be provided the opportunity for a fair listen you claim is impossible, you slap them away because you got down voted?
You wanted to play victim and at every opportunity made sure that's how you acted, it would look almost insane, if it wasn't such a well-known political tactic to avoid a fair discussion.
You are very transparent just so you are aware.
Come on, mate. Go endure -25 or more downvotes for trying to engage with people. This sub is absolutely savage. I guess I'll just retreat to right leaning subs, and we will all grow further polarized and hateful.....oh yay.
You didn’t “exchange ideas” or initiate a “bilateral discourse”, you led with an outright falsehood about the federal government wasting $20B on expired CoVID shots and ignored people when they called you out on it
How is it a falsehood? It is absolutely true it's right there on public record. We could have built 10 new hospitals with the funds wasted on expired COVID shots. Unfortunately, the shots' efficacy was very underwhelming. Taxpayers got severely hosed on the cost.
Canada IN TOTAL only spent $9B on vaccines, so saying $20B was wasted on expired vaccines is FALSE.
Even the National Post only puts it at $1B in expired vaccines
https://nationalpost.com/news/most-unused-covid-19-vaccines-will-expire-at-the-end-of-the-year-auditor-general/wcm/bdc3760e-af65-40c3-ad45-6a42b7dbcbb0/amp/
Happy to see your “evidence” of $20B
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I concede the 2022 statistic at $1B.....now add the 2023 statistic. A covid booster vaccine for the omcicron variant that only had a 26% uptake rate at $28 per dose plus staffing and facility costs.....the budget officers don't even want to report the number because it is that bad. (It is an additional $940,000,000 on top of the one billion from 2022, wastage and expenses continue the accrue.)
Now, let's factor in the cost of losing public trust in the once proven science of vaccination....notice that measles is making a resurgence? That's because of authoritarian vaccine mandates. I've said it before, and I'll say it a million times: "Good ideas, don't require force." Vaccination is a good idea. We went down a very stupid and dark path during the pandemic. Elderly needed the shots. The shots needlessly harmed/killed youth that would never have had a bad covid outcome. It was the shittiest, least nuanced government policy I have ever seen. Compound that with tribalised psychopaths demanding that others take a risky shot.....what a fucking shit show. We are now living with the consequences of mostly Leftoid stupidity.
We can absolutely have as civilized conversation as soon as the UCP dimwitted are voted out, and replaced by leaders that do not want to drive our province straight to dictatorship hell. And by the way, nobody is making you read and comment on stuff you clearly are not interested in hearing or seeing!!!
You hold the government of the day accountable. They make decisions that impact all Albertans. If the Alberta NDP were in government, you could expect the same thing here.
I mean, the entire internet is an echo chamber. Every single platform becomes dominated by a certain set of ideologues, who then drive out dissent once the balance has tipped in their favour. So you’re not crazy…
I like it here, but it’s never going to be a forum for measured discourse. I never go to social media forums for that, it’s like going to a Flames party and expecting respect for the Oilers.
I have voted conservative, liberal, NDP based on the platforms at the time.
I think in my voting history I have voted conservative most. The UCP government has been leaning further and further right and has totally lost my vote.
I feel that we are a knife edge away from losing so many rights. We are being blindsided by the hidden agenda of this government, as a woman, I feel very anxious that my bodily autonomy is going to be taken away.
I’m all for advocating for what is important to the Province, however this government is constantly on the offensive with the Feds and escalates everything to red hot.
The movement away from provable science and facts toward unproven ideas and feelings gives me absolutely zero confidence that this government has the best interests of all Albertans at heart.
Interesting perspective. What bodily autonomy rights are you concerned about losing? The right to independent medical decisions? Abortion rights? Forced religious covering?
I was genuinely unaware that women's bodily autonomy was a concern in Alberta/Canada.
I worry that the underlying fundamental religious influences this Government seems to be embracing with their anti lgbtq2s actions will lead to abortion restrictions. Women have long struggled to get close to equal rights and we’re not there yet. It was only in the ‘70s that women were able to open a bank account without a man’s signature. Even now it can be a struggle to be heard, to have fundamentalist ideology such as women should be in the home serving her man influencing government is deeply troubling.
I'm not sure why I got smacked with yet another -7 downvotes for my question. Regardless. I would like to engage with you on this topic.
Thank you for bringing the historical limitations on women's rights to my attention. I was unaware of the practice of "coverture" and what equated to male ownership of their wives in the 1800s. Granting total control to the male. It seems so bizarre to a Millenial that has only known the era of full women's rights and empowerment. I revere the women in my life. From my fiercely independent and beautiful wife. To my incredible mother, a registered nurse of 40+ years. All the way back to my grandmother's, who were both farmers that dabbled in real estate and direct marketing.
Are women's bodily rights under attack in Alberta? I asked my wife and mother what they thought today. They both believe the first abortion anyone requires is an understandable mistake. However, anyone relying on abortion as birth control is very problematic. They believe that they have more opportunity and access to services than men could ever hope to have. They also expressed appreciation that they don't have to work in a mine repairing heavy equipment for 3000 hours per year like I do. I realize this is a small anecdotal sampling of our society. But that was their perspective. My daughter is 14 and Metis. She will be starting an early electrician apprenticeship program this September through school. That is a profound opportunity compared to even 20 years ago.
In summary, while I respect your perspective. I simply don't see it the same way. I see the march of progress for women's rights continuing forward. Look at Premier Smith herself. She has accomplished so much in her media business. Running a farm to table restaurant. And eventually becoming Premier of the best province in Canada. Is that not remarkable and something to be celebrated? Look at Italian Prime Minister Georgia Meloni. Many left leaning people vilified her as an absolute monster that was going to rewind social progress in Italy by hundreds of years. Fast forward two years, none of those fears were founded. Georgia is now one of the most influential women in politics on Earth.
> Are women's bodily rights under attack in Alberta? I asked my wife and mother what they thought today. They both believe the first abortion anyone requires is an understandable mistake. However, anyone relying on abortion as birth control is very problematic.
I truthfully don’t think women rely on abortion as birth control, but women should have access to abortions whether it be their first or second abortion. Sex Education and access to contraceptives is the first line in reducing the need for an abortion.
Statistics on number of abortions performed per year.
https://www.arcc-cdac.ca/media/2020/07/statistics-abortion-in-canada.pdf
It's interesting to see the abortion numbers going down. That is a good sign of successful sex education and contraceptive utilization.
Despite the raving lunatics on the fringes of Conservatism in Canada. There is no federal or provincial Conservative party that is actively trying to eliminate access to abortion. People also willfully ignore that it was the Harper Conservatives that brought gay marriage to Canada. How's that for "anti-LGBTQ"?
I'll also concede that the same phenomenon happens with the fringes of left-wing parties supporting a Universal Basic Income. The parties are not actively pursuing it. They have calculators. As always, targeted assistance for those in need is optimal. Helicopter money is irresponsible and highly inflationary.
Interesting, you are correct. Two Liberal cabinet ministers resigned to vote against the bill. One NDP MP was kicked out of the caucus for her opposition to the bill.
I was confusing the 2006 free vote in the House of Commons with the passing of the Civil Marriage Act. The minority Harper government initiated a free (non-whipped) vote on restoring the "traditional definition of marriage." The House overwhelmingly voted to keep the Civil Marriage Act intact. Afterward, Harper stated, "That settles it for good."
Melissa Lantsman is in line to become the first openly lesbian deputy prime minister. That's pretty cool. The Poilievre crew is going to be far more Libertarian than previous Conservative governments. Hopefully, they introduce legislation that breaks up all of the business cartels in Canada to get some legitimate free market competition going on here. We desperately need it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Marriage_Act
> Interesting, you are correct. Two Liberal cabinet ministers resigned to vote against the bill. One NDP MP was kicked out of the caucus for her opposition to the bill.
Why do you point out the liberal & NDP votes against, while not mentioning the conservatives.
Regardless this decision took place nearly 20 years ago. Same people’s opinions will have move forward since then. Some will have stayed the same.
It's more interesting that a Liberal cabinet minister was willing to resign over it than a social Conservative expectedly opposing it.
It's all history now. As I've previously pointed out. The march of progress is highly unlikely to be reversed. Only a select few individuals are deeply opposed to alternative sexualities. Most people don't really give a frig. I just find modern rainbow warriors to be lame as fuck and annoying. A far cry from heroes like Harvey Milk.
Women have been regarded as chattel forever. They have been married off to the highest bidder, told they were not intellectually able to have an opinion or say politically and treated as second class citizens until well into the 20th century. That you were unaware of female struggles for equality is a sad reflection of our education system and also an example of male privilege.
Statistics and records show that there are very few incidents of women having multiple abortions as a form of birth control. It is a very emotionally and physically invasive procedure that is not taken lightly. The federal government universal healthcare proposal that was rejected out of hand by the UCP had full coverage for birth control which would be an absolute game changer for the economically challenged and would help avoid abortions.
I look at what is happening south of the border and see absolute chaos, with people taking books away from libraries, limiting education and taking away a woman’s right to autonomy over their bodies. This is in a country that proclaims itself to be the beacon light of democracy. I see what is happening here with the polarization of politics and the steps being taken to limit access of trans individuals to medical care.
As a libertarian, I would have thought that the introduction of more rules and interference by government into personal autonomy would be abhorrent to you and you would be against that on principle even though it may not affect you personally.
I struggle to find any positive connection with Premier Smith. Her association with and endorsement of Tucker Carlson, her podcasts and radio shows where she took extreme positions on things like cancer etc. and her “misspeaking” is disturbing to me. I find the UCP ethos to be fundamentally unkind and self serving.
I see chaos in Canada. With productivity in rapid decline and our quality of life rapidly deteriorating. As a Libertarian, I would like to see gay married couples defending their Marijuana crops with a firearm.
What sort of medical access is being limited to trans individuals? As a Libertarian, I would like individuals to be accountable for their own health. That includes acquiring private insurance suitable to the individuals family requirements. To Canadians, this view may seem monstrous. For the majority of humanity, this is a perfectly normal view.
As a Libertarian, I would like to see women have inalienable personal rights. Total equality. Everything should be based on merit. If females are superior at specific things, they shall rise to the top of their fields.
Because the UCP are the current, active government. The NDP aren't the ones enacting policies and doing errepairable mass damage to the Albertan economy and your social, educational and judicial structures. I absolutely believe the NDP should be held to account when they screw up. Politics don't deserve a cult following. If criticizing your government (who is literally there to represent the will of the people in the first place) offends you then you might be approaching politics wrong.
They are simply a legal representative of the mass majority's interests. Do you feel the UCP are serving the masses or are they personally benefitting while the rich get richer?
Look at their policies, how similar policies have had problems occur in other countries or even in our own history and make a decision from there. This isn't hard.
Last I checked the NDP were held to account, and lost a lot of favor due to their slide right. They're Alberta's actual conservative party now, let's all be honest with ourselves.
Do I agree with the whole platform? Hell no. Do I agree with enough of it that I can vote for that over a platform trying to sell my healthcare off for parts? In zero seconds.
I'd love to vote for the Alberta party, but I have been less happy with their platform than I've been unhappy with the NDP one and the liberals aren't viable here.
I agree with you though, the team sports needs to stop. It's quite interesting watching the absolute regression to fascism and how it's just accepted. Now I know people panic at fascism being overused. 1 group is aggregating power towards themselves while aggregating wealth there as well. Perhaps kleptocracy is a better term? Regardless, we are being squeezed, actively, by the group in power, and their supporters have decided it's a boogey man causing it. Be that Trudeau or Motley, neither which makes any sense.
How the fuck do we dig out of this. We often suggest edu action gets us out, but the government in power is even dismantling that! It's impressively regressive.
Yes, the NDP had multiple failures. I agree.
How do we get out of this? By funding the lowest class and stop giving tax breaks to the wealthiest. You complain about the long term consequences of UCP policies but you choose to keep voting for the same platform. If you don't like what you see, stop voting in a vacuum. Vote outside those two parties. That's what most people should do.
Oh don't you fret, I'd never vote for the UCP, if I wanted a conservative government I'd vote in the NDP. Preferably we'd get an actually socially progressive party. But alas, we sit with the overtone shifting NDP.
They echo conservative policies. How they choose to identify while they align themselves isn't always the case in practice. Again, we should be voting by policy, not political party for a reason.
We need to mobilize as a country. The reality is all our leaders failed us whatever our personal interests are. Nobody but the already rich are basically happy at this point and we are so divided its easy for us to be conquered. It's not conservative versus liberal. It's rich versus poor. And we get nowhere until we work together and mobilize.
Completely objectively speaking, the UCP are awful and making the worst decisions possible for Alberta while selling off our public services to their buddies to make a profit for abysmal services compared to what we received before it was privatized. It’s a common playbook.
There’s a reason there’s so much UCP hatred. They suck balls.
Can you tell me why they're choosing to intentionally defund social programs while the opiod epidemic flourishes and hits an all time high under UCP initiated policies?
Despite calling for civilized political discussion and decrying hostility, the OP's subsequent behavior contradicts their plea. OP failed to engage constructively and resorted to name-calling, undermining their own call for respectful dialogue. The best example of a keyboard warrior hypocrite extraordinaire I have seen in a while.
If you want to hang out with cons, go to literally any canada subreddit other than /onguardforthee
You'll find a huge right wing echo chamber to scream into, have fun!
> Or can we actually engage in some civilized political discussion?
Wait......... are the UCP doing this now? This environment is fuelled by the people in charge. They refuse to engage in good faith and have for many years.
There was a town hall with the NDP Health Critic and she was saying that LeGrange was refusing to meet at all. Kind of tells me what I need to know about this party.
I used to be a conservative voter. And I lived downtown when Kent Hehr was in provincially. I remember going to him as my MLA. He said. Well, we aren’t in power. So there’s not as much as I can do. But why don’t I set us up a meeting with the conservative minister. And he did. And everyone showed up and got along and we worked on the issue together. That’s what I’m not liking about the UCP.
Once upon a time in this province they actually tried to make it at least look like they were working together. These guys came in with earplugs and seem to still be refusing to listen. It’s frustrating because if you have a UCP MLA like I did last cycle, they don’t respond at all. And then if you get an NDP MLA they can try but their counterparts refuse to meet. It’s so aggravating.
So funny! I see the opposite. Trudeau haters, federal government haters. Wealthy people haters.
Maybe we are a balanced group on a steady teeter totter.
[when you post to complain about Discourse, do shitty Discourse, and people reward your shitty discourse with downvotes](https://youtu.be/pw-dF5l3pDU?si=8STm7wYBh7gVqLF5)
You can love or hate the UCP, but I think many Albertans are terrified of becoming the Texas of the North, which seems to be exactly where they are taking us. Reduced human rights, rampant whataboutism, blatant cronyism and financial dereliction just to prove a political point. After 20 mostly great years in this province I’m leaving. Even the beauty of the Rocky Mountains in our backyard can’t compensate for this ****show, and believe me I love the mountains.
Isn't Texas thriving? I think interstate and international migration to Texas is very high. Net domestic migration to Texas was 230,000 in 2022. Florida was number one at 318,000. It's Michigan, Illinois, and California that have the highest outmigration statistics.
I guess I consider economics and prosperity far more important than social issues. Texas does need to cool it on violating women's reproductive rights for sure. However, a woman in Texas is free to defend her property from threats with a firearm. That helps prevent situations like we are seeing in Toronto, where criminals flagrantly assault the public and steal their vehicles without consequence.
That may well be true, but from my perspective economics are not the primary driver of quality of life. For sure they matter but not at any cost. Sure anyone can defend themself with deadly force but the result of that appears to be by far the highest gun related deaths in the USA.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/301603/murder-involving-firearms-us/
Is that something you want for Alberta ?
I don’t think many Albertans would agree.
I want the creeps that prowl my vehicles and try my house doorknobs several times a week to fuck off. Law enforcement and the justice system are apparently useless now. People should absolutely have the right to defend themselves. Seems like the only people the justice system charges these days are the ones defending themselves against criminals. That's fucked up.
In a society with consequences, criminality is drastically reduced. There are two routes: authoritarian police states like Singapore or Saudi Arabia. Or self-defense deterrence like Texas. One thing is for sure, Canada can not continue on this current trajectory.
I'm happily married to a Metis goddess. I also have a vasectomy, not really concerned about abortion hysteria. Never needed one. Condoms were always readily available in high school. Birth control is cheap as fuck. While I honestly don't care if someone needs one, it's sure not something I would ever willingly put a sexual partner through.
Capital punishment? Yeah, that's a strong deterrent of disgusting crimes. I would be OK with feeding pedophiles to the polar bears of Churchill, Manitoba.
Firearms are great. Have you ever shot a few 300 ultra magnum rounds out of a rifle? It's exhilarating!
I am actively applying for work in Tucson, AZ, and some mining regions in Texas. It's difficult as a skilled tradesperson. I may have to retrain as a registered nurse or something.
I am a typical Albertan. We like these things. Only Edmonton based leftists despise their own province. Never realizing that NDP ruled BC is even more fucked up than Alberta.
I agree, the bias is quite obvious and it really limits the conversation. I’ll say r/Albertapolitics has a little more diversity than r/Alberta, so I’ll give credit where credit is due.
This shows the some of the good things the UCP has done, is doing, or plans to do, from the source.
https://www.unitedconservative.ca/ucp-platform-2023/
UCPers should read the NDP platform as well
https://www.albertandp.ca/plan
There are quite a bit of overlapping end goals.
Everyone wants affordability, good education, healthcare, environment, liberty, etc
The UCP has provided plenty of cause for seething hatred. It is *far* worse on the opposite side of the spectrum in places like canada\_sub. I could name some reasonable UCP decisions, but there have been too many that only make sense through a lens of ignorance, extreme ideology or straight-up corruption to every trust them to make future decisions in the best interests of the province or its people. They lie, repeatedly, provably and in not-subtle ways that it is impossible not to see overtones of truth-averse authoritarianism championed by Trump and Putin, and I am completely embarrassed to live in a province represented by Danielle Smith. In a functional democracy she should not have come near political power. That she was elected and is likely to be re-elected as Premier is a brutal indictment of our educational system, but also of our inability to find enough common ground with rural Albertans that the UCP can position themselves as protectors of their way of life.
It is *vital* that we have a venue for civilized conversation, and I wish Reddit could be part of that. The swarm of anonymous downvoting of right-wing perspectives that happens in this sub is unhelpful ,cowardly, and rampant. If people are posting straight up misinformation, downvote away and tell them why - maybe they learn something, maybe they don't, maybe they shock you with cold facts that support their claims - but people shouldn't be slammed just for having an unpopular opinion. People hold sincere beliefs that are provably cuckoo bananas to a comical degree, and we're blindly downvoting them so hard we may as well be recruiting for the Flat Earth Society rather than trying to onboard them to the same reality we currently inhabit.
I say this as a pro-life, atheist, small-government fiscal conservative who is against DEI and other social justice constructs, for welfare stronger supports but against endless welfare handouts, for immigration but only in a surgical way through which Canada can exploit the skills and education of foreigners to support the needs of our economy as our population ages, against the current LGBTQ+ movement but only because it is being forced on people in a binary and guilt-driven way that has become counter productive, for taking serious measures to tackle carbon emissions/climate change but mostly against the consumer carbon tax despite recognizing it is not a financial burden to most Canadians (outside BC, sorry west coasters), pro-vaccine but against the Covid-era vaccine mandates, overly verbose logic-driven Reddit hobo. Pretty much anything I type is going to offend someone.
At the end of the day I'm looking for politicians to make apolitical decisions and for people to exercise basic critical thinking before spreading opinions, which tragically leaves me without an echo chamber to call home.
It's very left biased and the mods let the left sling personal attacks like hell but as a conservative you must always bite your tongue keep everything above board. I mean, it's good practice but this is fundamentally a very biased subreddit. Come hear to learn the left perspective but don't expect most in here to approach any issues with the same openness.
..44% of 60% of eligible voters. It's that 40% who didn't vote that I wonder about. That means less than 30% of eligible voters voted for the NDP. As well, the UCP formed gov't with the support of 33.5% of the voting public. The 33.5% is the same number that Smith enjoyed 2 weeks before the election. During the 28 day campaign, Smiths number fell in battleground Calgary but improved remarkably in "other" (outside of Calgary and Edmonton). There were two constituencies in Calgary, one rural and Lethbridge East that were gettable for the NDP but for influences. That still brings up the NDP 2 seats short of a majority. All this isn't relevant as the UCP has a 6 seat majority. I do still wonder about the 40% who didn't vote.
I doubt eligible voters who decided not to vote are going to be hanging out in an Alberta Politics sub. If they didn’t think their voice mattered there… why bother to come on here?
I hear you on your miss alignment on voices to electorate ratio however, wouldn’t it be safe to assume that the majority (maybe slim) of the UCP voters are not the ones who have all the social media’s? By this I mean the I’d bet money on the average age of a UCP voter is higher than the average age of an NDP voter.
That's exactly the point I'm making here. I've already hemorrhaged all of my karma. This sub is rotten to the core. It's a shame, Reddit has great potential as a philosophical forum.
Damn what happened to the marketplace of ideas?
Funny how the veneer of "let's engage in a respectful exchange" melted away when your misrepresentations got push back.
You're a conservative.
Yeah to the extent that the collection of taxes is considered authoritarian.
That's the reason you guys generally find a lot more compatibility with the right wing.
It's easy to fall into a generalization of all government bad living in this province for sure
>We don't love any authoritarianism.
This is completely untrue. They are not mutually exclusive. It isn't hard to imagine individuals within the libertarian spectrum prioritizing different values or objectives at different times, sometimes favoring authoritarian solutions to address perceived threats or achieve specific goals, while still maintaining a fundamental belief in individual liberty and limited government intervention overall.
I suppose if there was a violent Communist revolution happening, Libertarians would be forced to act.
Ever read, "For Whom the Bell Tolls" by Hemmingway. It does a great job of portraying pacifist Libertarian types being forced into action by the extreme actions of authoritarian types. It's a fascinating read. The protagonist begins to really question whether fighting against the perceived enemy is ethical.
LMAO libertarians are selfish useless idiots who buy into capitalist and conservative narratives.
Every libertarian experiment has failed and descended into anarchy. You (the royal "you" as in libertarians) rely on public infrastructure and government support systems while proudly spewing that you're "independent".
You hold strong biases and engage in generalizations about those with differing political views. You express frustration with what you perceive as censorship and intolerance from the left, while simultaneously exhibiting tendencies towards similar behavior. You seem to lack self-awareness or consistency in your arguments and have removed all nuance. Let me try and provide some.
**"They don't attack or argue your points but they respond to how it makes them feel, so it can very easily come across as hate and not an argument."** – This strikes me as overlooking how emotions can play a legitimate role in our responses. Aren't our feelings often tied to our deepest convictions and values, making them an integral part of the discussion?"
**"They also love control of people if it makes them feel safe or secure. They are very quick to give up freedoms or choices if it makes them feel positive and do so with excitement and vigor if it can be used against their opposition, ignoring the obvious fact that those limitation and restrictions will also eventually end up being used against them."** the desire for control or safety isn't owned by any one side. Don't we all grapple with finding that balance between freedom and security, making it a shared dilemma rather than a point of division?"
**"That is why they come up with things like hate speech that they will relate to any criticism of any group they deem special."** it feels like your not fully considering the complexity of navigating between free speech and hate speech. Isn't the challenge here to protect individuals from harm while also preserving open dialogue, something we should all be striving to balance?"
**"While most on the center or right welcome opposing views since it gives them a chance to actually discuss it, most on the left fear and fight against views they do not approve of."** isn't it possible that openness and resistance to different opinions are traits that can be found across the entire political spectrum? Maybe the issue isn't so much about left versus right but more about how we all approach and engage with differing viewpoints.
**"Last thing is that many conservatives have learned that people on the left have no issues going after them personally, even if it means ruining their job or reputation so there is HUGE self-censorship on the right of center."** Your concern that 'many conservatives have learned that people on the left have no issues going after them personally...' highlights a broader issue of civility in our discourse. But don't you think this problem of personal attacks, rather than debating ideas, is something that affects everyone, not just one side? Encouraging a culture of respect and understanding could be a step towards better dialogue for us all.
Be the content you want to see, this website is user generated.
I'm happy to discuss the things the UCP has done well, and I find it takes no time at all.
Weird, your comment is an hour old and nothing here? Alright Cons, come out come out come out, now's your chance, what good things, (with evidence of it's after effects) have the UCP done?
Nothing worse than being given the opportunity to prove your point and then having to go to a dry well to make it.
For the countless posts here on why power is expensive, here is an article from 2018 that shows the cost was brought on through NDP governance. Putting a temporary cap in place for optics while paying utility companies some $8.3M per month for the actual cost. The market has been deregulated since the mid 90s, this huge spike in price didn’t happen until the NDP were in. The UCP was critical of the shift in energy resourcing and said this will end up costing more and lo and behold, here we are. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4675611
So, they were protecting from a 3 cent hike. From 6.8 to 9.28. since deregulation we've seen 31 on variable and our transmission fees have ballooned. To blame this on subsidies from 2018 is laughable. Also we used our carbon tax for that subsidy. The one the UCP threw away and gave to Ottawa who they supposedly hate. Pretty stupid move if you ask me. Tell me again how companies that were subsidized to continue making a profit is the NDPs fault? That was a measure to protect vulnerable Alberta's. Something we know the UCP is categorically against.
“Transmission fees have ballooned” …. The UCP was critical of shifting energy resourcing saying this will come with large cost impact. And, they want a shift too, just gradually and with sustainability. If you remove all the cheaper reliable sources and pair that with all sorts of new infrastructure and their “transmission” all at once, the result is inflated costs. We pay those subsidies, that’s still our cost. Carbon tax is also our cost, and if it’s going there it’s not coming directly back to the public. It’s the NDPs fault because their decisions (shifting power sources) is what led to higher costs too quickly, but they didn’t own that. The costs are what they are and proper compensation is justified. Putting a cap on rates and essentially paying the difference under the table, for optics, then having the cap expire in the next term and point the finger at the opposition for your interference is sleazy. Unjust blame.
They made it so no renewables projects can proceed and they have no go zones setup in areas that are incredible for resources like wind. I'm not sure how that positions them to transition ever? https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/alberta-ucp-danielle-smith-renewable-energy-restrictions https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-viewscapes-buffer-zones-renewables-map-1.714536 That map is better than the early reports I had seen. Now we'll see what happens when projects are proposed.
Renewables aren’t band, even the pause was only on projects over a certain capacity. Now it’s only on certain areas and that may change as progress happens. They show interest in more than wind and solar as well. This is reiterated in the first 4 minutes of this video, from the source: https://www.youtube.com/live/IQyKLyvhMis?si=mrs9zCn2xAtBdOwC This is consistent with measured progressive implementation. Although I agree billions in investment through renewables sounds great, looking past that, these companies will want to collect on this investment, that comes from us, not to mention impacts to other industries … agriculture, tourism et al and the literal landscape.
We had 18 billion on the table that got scrapped because the UCP wanted caution for the first time in their lives. We've never slowed down for oil and gas, forgive me if I'm skeptical.
Deferred. Although I’ll agree you won’t recoup all the potential unfortunately. Renewables are optional supplemental, o&g is the primary source, the backbone to our survival and why we are able to live as well as we do. Everyone uses oil and gas every day and the global demand is only increasing, despite trying to offset some of the energy sources, which should happen as well.
It's not a binary problem. That's my issue with these policy decisions, it's treated as if it were binary. The longer we delay beginning a transition the harder the swings will be when we do. The oil and gas companies we hang ourselves with have already diversified.
We do have a great start on renewables already, there are a number of completed projects and projects in construction (which unfortunately the trade off is higher costs to end users). I think the brakes are coming on a bit because of these costs to Albertans as well as, we are so well positioned for renewables that we could really lose ourselves in growing pains and don’t want to get ahead of ourselves.
You don’t have to be even slightly left leaning to see how terrible the UCP is for the province. This isn’t the usual case of conservatives vs progressives, you surely must see this. Our government is taking orders from religious zealots and is pushing stuff they didn’t campaign on and have no mandate for. I think it’s really disingenuous to say that people are in a left wing echo chamber on this sub because of their hatred for the UCP. Every single day we’re hearing extremely troubling stuff coming from our government that nobody in the province wants. People were concerned about the APP and they said they weren’t campaigning on it and it would not be something they were immediately pursuing. They said they weren’t campaigning on weird Alberta police force, now it’s being thrust upon us. They’ve halted necessary hospital construction. They’ve decided we all have to suffer austerity so we can grow our heritage fund for the future. What future?? What future can Albertans expect if we aren’t funding healthcare and education properly when we have the money to do so. We’re the richest province and we’re being held down by our authoritarian government for no good reason other than weird ideological spite. They’re fucking the future of the province by not allowing renewable energy sources to thrive in a place with a population and environment primed for it to succeed. We’re squandering our future while some backwards, uneducated homeschooled pastor runs the show. The guy who is openly directing our government literally posted a tweet with a burning pride flag. Wtf is it gonna take for people to understand that no, both sides aren’t the same. What a childish take.
What are you even talking about; there is plenty of civilized discussion. You can’t be mad that the majority of people on this one platform don’t agree with you..if you want certain posts; then post it but you can’t be upset that not everyone agrees with you; that’s not civil discourse. It sounds like you’re only comfortable with content and discussion that reflects you and your views.
Not at all. I enjoy open exchange of ideas. I'm a Libertarian who disapproves of all partisan politics. I'm seeing fiercely one-sided partisanship here. Borderline hate speech. This sub seems really angry about living in the most prosperous province in Canada.
Again you can’t be upset that people don’t share your opinions. People here are just as free to hate on the UCP as much as you are free to love them. You are literally upset that you can’t find people who see things like you. You are bothered that people are openly exchanging ideas about hating what the UCP have done to this Province; why does that upset you? I’m not sure about what hate speech you’re referring to; examples? I’m glad you love this Province but not all of us agree and we are allowed to vocalize it. This is where you show your cards “This sub seems really angry about living in the most prosperous province in Canada.” So no one can speak up about things they don’t like? You literally are saying no one’s allowed to dissent here and that’s not very Libertarian of you now is it? I’m allowed to hate what the UCP are doing and I’m allowed to voice it online. I’m sorry that bothers you but maybe consider if you are actually a Libertarian or not because your comments are not reflecting your stated beliefs.
Prosperous for whom? Only for some. Alberta had the third lowest minimum wage in the country, after Saskatchewan and New Brunswick.
What are your thoughts on forcing teachers to out gay kids to their parents? Banning puberty blockers for trans kids?
>What are your thoughts on forcing teachers to out gay kids to their parents? > >Banning puberty blockers for trans kids? They are a libertarian, there is no way they agree with any of that stuff........
Prosperous for who? I've lived here my entire life.
And what exactly is the benefit of living in the most prosperous province in the country? What do we get? We have no doctors and our hospitals are bursting at the seams. Classroom sizes are huge and we don’t have enough schools to accommodate our growing population. Our utilities cost a fortune as do our insurance plans. What exactly are we getting from being so prosperous? The ability to gloat that we give oil and gas companies a whole bunch of money and we make them nice and rich while we suffer? Seriously dude, grow up. Nobody thinks you’re smart or somehow more open minded because you disapprove of partisan politics. You aren’t better than anyone because you think aligning yourself with a party based on your values and beliefs is somehow negative. Why should anyone give equal opportunity to a party that doesn’t at all represent what they believe is right for society?
Bottoming for oil companies is a badge of honor! 🫡
Insurance costs less in Alberta than the interior of BC. It is impossible to access healthcare in BC. Whatever this sub is rotten the core. Wankers can't resist the down vote arrow. Bye.
>I believe Albertans are capable of sharing ideas without so much hostility. >Whatever this sub is rotten the core. Wankers can't resist the down vote arrow. Bye. That didn't take long.
What’s sad here dude is that you come in here with both barrels cocked and then don’t get the blowey you were expecting so you turn tail and name call. If you’re going to state big claims, actually have the spine to back them up.
[Alberta's insurance costs have surpassed BC's quite some time ago.](https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/ca/news/auto-motor/most-expensive-provinces-for-auto-insurance-premiums-revealed-432632.aspx) And BC is making improvements, while Alberta is losing ground when it comes to wait lists and other healthcare metrics. [Even the astroturf org, the Fraser institute states we have the longest wait lists in Canada.](https://www.insurancebusinessmag.com/ca/news/auto-motor/most-expensive-provinces-for-auto-insurance-premiums-revealed-432632.aspx)
Asks for reasonable conversasions, gets downvoted, about right for this sub.
"Asks" for reasonable conversation, immediately starts making unsubstantiated claims and derogatory remarks, complains that the whole sub is rotten and full of "wankers". The downvotes are warranted. OP and his fellow right-wing trolls didn't come here to discuss in good faith.
Calling people wankers isn’t reasonable discussion.
"Not at all. I enjoy open exchange of ideas. I'm a Libertarian who disapproves of all partisan politics. I'm seeing fiercely one-sided partisanship here. Borderline hate speech. This sub seems really angry about living in the most prosperous province in Canada." That post got 27 downvotes. OP started reasonable, then received more and more downvotes. The "wanker" comment is his least downvoted.
Sure and the comments that came prior. > The Tyee, eh? Such great satire. Oh wait, they're being serious? Bwahahaha!
The Tyee has a left bias. If you think that they are credible, and Fox news is not, that shows your bias.
You can make your point without being condescending.
Libertarian? No real libertarian would be simping for a government that is taking away the rights of parents of transgender kids, and trying to destroy the entire market for green technology. Freedom doesn't mean just supporting the rights of people you like, it means supporting everyone's rights. You are just a conservative who calls themselves Libertarian because you think its edgier or something. Run of the mill, boring conservative with corporatist leanings -- wanting your side on top, and only your side. You call everything you don't like socialism, so that you can feel justified in your hatred. Any time anyone or anything you dislike is too successful or popular, you decide that the government or socialists must have intervened, because your beloved right wing corporate heroes are not being worshiped as you think they should be. You are no different than the christian right who cherry picks their bible to create a prosperity gospel, where they are the inheritors of gods blessings, except instead of cherry picking the bible, you cherry pick economic statements that back up you inherent worship of the merchant princes who run the corporations.
What did you major in at University?
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Removed. Personal attack.
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Removed. Personal attack.
Biochemistry here if you were doubting the credentials of your interlocutors
I’m an anarchist who disapproves of all partisan politics and I think you’re full of it.
We are literally near the bottom for livability. Wtf are you on about 😂
Oh really? Have you lived in Mississauga? Have you tried Burnaby? Maybe check out Halifax. Alberta has, by far, the best average income to expense ratio in the country. If we are talking about people who are fully dependent on the government to exist, you are correct, Alberta is not the place to be.
Fuck this sub.
Like all at once? Maybe we could queue up? Who's bringing condoms
Buahahaha. "Bye Felicia"
What's funny is that when the NDP was in power, it was the same. This sub calls out government bad decisions as we should.
lol, that’s funny
You can go and look at posts on here from 2015 - 2019 if you think that's not true.
Ok, this one’s long. There are a couple of characters in this sub that are very fanatic and love the garbage memes and all that, but most of the discussion here really isn’t general “I hate UCP” stuff. It’s about news and specific things that are happening because of this government’s actions. I probably wouldn’t be considered left enough by the self-proclaimed left, and I don’t understand how conservatives aren’t worried about the party they voted for and the things they’re doing. It’s not that I disagree with their point of view, it’s that they’re clearly really bad at their jobs. As somebody else said here, this isn’t just typical conservatives vs. liberals/NDP. It’s that this is one of the most mediocre, self-serving groups of politicians I’ve ever seen in my life, and you can trace problems that we’re living right now very clearly to policies and decisions they’ve made. Adriana LaGrange is a person without the knowledge to be leading education, let alone health. The environment minister is meant to be decoration because of the party’s ideological hang-ups. There’s a religious nutjob ignorant guy claiming to be driving the party to his own agenda and responsible for placing politicians as he pleases, and the Premier not only doesn’t deny the rumours, but keeps him close like he’s a friend and advisor. I grew up in a different country where corruption was on the menu at every level of government, nothing surprises me. But here I’m finally shocked at how openly corrupt this party is and how little their followers care about the things they’re not even bothering to hide. I don’t have any traditional love for either of these parties, my parents didn’t vote for them. I came to Alberta with an open mind and I’m surprised to see AB conservatives cutting their noses to spite their faces every single time. What they think is ideological alignment trumps their own best interest. You talk about the most prosperous province, however our cost of living took a massive hit thanks to some of this government’s decisions and every time I see somebody ranting about “thank god Notley is gone” and ask them what this government has done that tangibly improved their lives, they don’t have an answer. Or they say something that never happened, like “lowered income taxes.” I’m all for discussion and nobody should stop you from starting threads about things you think are good and hearing different sides. You should be welcome here. But, fanatics aside, I think people are right to be worried and angry about very specific things that are happening.
Very well said. Great post.
Thank you for the rational response. I live in BC and Alberta. I am very familiar with the positives and negatives in both provinces. I can assure you that any affordability issues Albertans are experiencing are amplified in BC. Canada is experiencing a massive contraction in quality of life for the population because too many believe the economy is zero sum. Activists have ensured that productivity and universal prosperity is impeded at every turn. This nation's potential is unlimited, but the population is overwhelmingly anti growth and anti industry. In fact, we have an accepted culture of vilifying all industrial activity. Conservative supporters are far more level-headed than certain radicals in this sub portray us. We just want to see tax dollars used efficiently, we want to see steady economic growth, we aren't obsessed with gender identity, we believe in stable family units, we dislike crime, we balance our household budgets, we work for a living, we are usually not public sector workers. There are many rational reasons why we vote the way we do. I'm not seeing the same corruption in the UCP that you are. To be honest, the only thing they really fucked up was not fulfilling the middle class income tax break election promise. I've spoken directly with my MLA about that bullshit. I see the Alberta NDP as being beholden to the absolutely despicable federal NDP. Jag and JT's enormous deficit spending and debt has devalued the Canadian peso to the point that it costs $7.99 for a head of iceberg lettuce these days. Money created, that is not backed by productivity, is inflationary, period. Fuck Chuck Keynes, the past 8 years were no the time for irresponsible spending sprees. Now, we are all going to suffer the consequences. Especially the working class which will have to pay for everything.
Yeah, I disagree. Only focusing on the tax money here for now. If you’re actually interested in seeing tax dollars used efficiently (not a conservative trait, but I get it, it’s always been oversimplified and advertised that way), you should be very unhappy with what’s happened over the past few years. Why aren’t you? - The famous Turkish Tylenol purchase was a terrible decision made in a rush exclusively to make a political point. It took literal days for the feds to fix the scarcity issue, and by then our government had already jumped the gun to buy something just to say “F Trudeau, we’ll fix it ourselves.” Because the anti-Trudeau show always comes first. We ended up with millions worth of unusable medication that doesn’t even meet Health Canada’s standards. You can’t tell me this was a good idea or a competent action. - We spent millions of dollars on an unnecessary “war room” designed to indoctrinate people into liking Oil & Gas. It didn’t work. If you know anything about marketing, you’ll know that there’s a price per click or conversion that determines if a campaign is effective. The price of the campaign per conversion was by all standard ridiculously high, because very few people responded to it. Who was it even for? Why did we have ads in **Times Square**? Do you know how much that costs? How is this a good expense while we don’t have enough hospital or school infrastructure? - Jason Kenney promised to remove the provincial carbon tax (money we had control over) knowing very well that we would automatically go under the federal one (but he knew his voters didn’t understand that part, and only wanted to say “in your face, Notley!”). Then spent millions on lost court fights against Ottawa about it. He could’ve used the provincial carbon tax however he wanted, but let’s just throw away millions on our “we hate the feds” show instead, right? - Danielle is doing the same. Lost fights with Ottawa. Lost money on a dumb “tell the feds” campaign that is a scream to the void because the other provinces aren’t having the same obsession with attacking renewable energy. UCP is threatening that we’ll be left in the dark when that depends 100% on our grid capacity, and they didn’t even mention investment to improve that until a few weeks ago after the emergency outage warning. We’re the only province having this issue, yet we have a whole anti-feds campaign about it. - UCP tells the rest of Canada that “Alberta is calling,” drives housing prices up in Calgary and there’s no adjustment to the population growth. Many of us don’t have a family doctor and now new people are coming that will need one. - They bet more than $1B (because that’s what it was, a gamble, not a strategic decision) on a pipeline that depended on an international election, after one of the candidates had said clearly that he would kill the project if elected. - We lost millions in revenue on tax breaks with no strings attached to O&G companies that generated zero jobs and some even left. - But coming back to Danielle since we can’t necessarily blame her for Kenney’s bad decisions: She’s spending money on a pension plan nobody asked for and specifically lied about during campaign. Even just the referendum is millions of tax money. And with their track record with teachers pensions, way too many people are definitely not cool with this group managing our pension funds. Spending money on an unwanted police force, coming up with funds out of nowhere to replace what the RCMP does here with federal funding. - The Dynalife investment and subsequent reversal. There was no need for this (if you want to chalk it up to ignorance and not corruption, that’s on you to give the benefit of the doubt). We lost money setting that up, and more money undoing it because they didn’t have capacity to completely replace the work of APL. I could go on, but how can you see this and say “hey, we support them because we just want to see our tax dollars put to good use”? This isn’t leftist fanaticism, it’s just a recount of really shitty waste of our dollars that got us nothing in return.
In the end it’s like screaming at clouds. I don’t like the division, but it’s clear conservatives in Alberta live in this different reality. I think of myself as someone who just wants a government that represents its constituents and is responsible and transparent with taxpayer money. I’ve been called horrible names literally bullied off every other form of social media for expressing myself, but you’re also bang on about the kind of rage farming on anti-UCP posts on Reddit. It’s like there is no middle ground, it’s very frustrating. I’d like to see more constructive dialogue in general.
Thx for your perspective. Focus on common objectives would be a great path forward. The problem is that left-wing politics have become super ingrained with anti growth and anti industrial philosophy. We simply can not tax ourselves into prosperity. We do require a productive economy. Right-wing politics have too many social regulators and religious elements. The lack of middle ground is problematic. So called "classical liberals" no longer exist. Polarization is definitely a problem.
Regarding your point about federal expending and inflation, we must be clear that it is not due to uncontrolled federal spending (at least totally) as you mention, although I agree that federal should not spent billions of dollars by example on a pipeline for the large corporations benefits. Inflation it is a global phenomenon that is due to global factors. My friends who live in other countries tell me how expensive things are everywhere and in many countries the ratio is much higher than Canada, in fact we are not so bad and below the USA and several European and Latinamerican countries that have a higher inflation. My question is all of this global problem is created by Justin's expenses and incredible power? No. Blame Putin and the war in Ukraine to drive the oil price up, disruption on supply chain, corporate greed, natural disasters by example cocoa price is increasing due to poor harvests in Africa due to droughts, so be prepare to pay more for you easter choco. Same with olive oil price is increasing by droughts and high temperatures in Spain and all these blame climate change not JT. These are the facts not what a politician is selling for your vote.
Happy cake day 🎂
Cool can you tell me the merits of buying 80 million dollars worth of Turkish Tylenol? Let's have a meaningful exchange of ideas in the marketplace of ideas
Especially when you put it in the context that Manitoba expanded their school breakfast and lunch programs for $30 million. That’s value for money. Imagine if we had invested that Turkish Tylenol money wisely into feeding school aged kids. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7069659
THAT ONLY COST THIRTY MILLY? man alive.
Exactly; I think about it every damn time the Turkish Tylenol thing comes up or I see parents on FB moms groups asking for milk and school snacks because they have tapped out resources at the Food Bank.
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On par with $20 Billion worth of expired and subsequently flushed COVID shots. There is no limit to government waste. All parties suck. There's definitely merit to manufacturing essential medical supplies locally.
Because that never happened. If you want to have an open and honest conversation, it helps to start by being honest https://nationalpost.com/news/most-unused-covid-19-vaccines-will-expire-at-the-end-of-the-year-auditor-general/wcm/bdc3760e-af65-40c3-ad45-6a42b7dbcbb0/amp/
They don't want to have an honest conversation. They want to promote the fascism and supremacism of the UCP.
Differences: * vaccines were bought in advance based on expected uptake but uptake was lower than expected * the Turkish Tylenol purchase amount was not based on expected usage. * vaccine purchase was researched and vetted. Doses were standardized. * [the Turkish Tylenol was garbage](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/alberta/article-documents-show-childrens-medication-imported-from-turkey-clogged-tubes/) This is standard conservative rhetoric. "Both situations involve money lost on medication therefore they're the same" is an argument that only works on the dim bulbs. You can't tell me with a straight face that the UCP did any research beyond "i know a guy" self dealing.
This is a huge false equivalency.
You should answer the question clearly, not with a disproven Whataboutism. You want the UCP hate to stop, well stop doing thing we hate like lying when facts corner you instead of being non-partisan, aka, honest. Unfortunately the MO of the UCP and it's "supporters" is to lie boldly, never acknowledge any inconvenient facts, treat every valid question as a personal attack and run away while acting like being debated is persecution. It's frustrating to try and have real conversations with a group that refuses to be honourable and honest, that acts like children on the playground refusing to follow a games rules once they start losing and refuses to take responsibility for their own actions. Yeah, there is hatred of the UCP, and the UCP will make it grow daily until either they stop harming the majority of Albertans or they are no longer a government, they removed the middle ground on this, we've just finally stopped playing nice, now we're playing fair.
Nope, -23 down votes. Enjoy your garbage echo chamber sub, I'm out
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Removed. Personal attack.
Sure thing, the users have voted, no exchange of ideas or bilateral discourse will be happening here.
You provided nothing but complaints and the genuine offers to be provided the opportunity for a fair listen you claim is impossible, you slap them away because you got down voted? You wanted to play victim and at every opportunity made sure that's how you acted, it would look almost insane, if it wasn't such a well-known political tactic to avoid a fair discussion. You are very transparent just so you are aware.
Come on, mate. Go endure -25 or more downvotes for trying to engage with people. This sub is absolutely savage. I guess I'll just retreat to right leaning subs, and we will all grow further polarized and hateful.....oh yay.
You didn’t “exchange ideas” or initiate a “bilateral discourse”, you led with an outright falsehood about the federal government wasting $20B on expired CoVID shots and ignored people when they called you out on it
How is it a falsehood? It is absolutely true it's right there on public record. We could have built 10 new hospitals with the funds wasted on expired COVID shots. Unfortunately, the shots' efficacy was very underwhelming. Taxpayers got severely hosed on the cost.
Canada IN TOTAL only spent $9B on vaccines, so saying $20B was wasted on expired vaccines is FALSE. Even the National Post only puts it at $1B in expired vaccines https://nationalpost.com/news/most-unused-covid-19-vaccines-will-expire-at-the-end-of-the-year-auditor-general/wcm/bdc3760e-af65-40c3-ad45-6a42b7dbcbb0/amp/ Happy to see your “evidence” of $20B
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I concede the 2022 statistic at $1B.....now add the 2023 statistic. A covid booster vaccine for the omcicron variant that only had a 26% uptake rate at $28 per dose plus staffing and facility costs.....the budget officers don't even want to report the number because it is that bad. (It is an additional $940,000,000 on top of the one billion from 2022, wastage and expenses continue the accrue.) Now, let's factor in the cost of losing public trust in the once proven science of vaccination....notice that measles is making a resurgence? That's because of authoritarian vaccine mandates. I've said it before, and I'll say it a million times: "Good ideas, don't require force." Vaccination is a good idea. We went down a very stupid and dark path during the pandemic. Elderly needed the shots. The shots needlessly harmed/killed youth that would never have had a bad covid outcome. It was the shittiest, least nuanced government policy I have ever seen. Compound that with tribalised psychopaths demanding that others take a risky shot.....what a fucking shit show. We are now living with the consequences of mostly Leftoid stupidity.
We can absolutely have as civilized conversation as soon as the UCP dimwitted are voted out, and replaced by leaders that do not want to drive our province straight to dictatorship hell. And by the way, nobody is making you read and comment on stuff you clearly are not interested in hearing or seeing!!!
You hold the government of the day accountable. They make decisions that impact all Albertans. If the Alberta NDP were in government, you could expect the same thing here.
Post something positive and engage away
I mean, the entire internet is an echo chamber. Every single platform becomes dominated by a certain set of ideologues, who then drive out dissent once the balance has tipped in their favour. So you’re not crazy… I like it here, but it’s never going to be a forum for measured discourse. I never go to social media forums for that, it’s like going to a Flames party and expecting respect for the Oilers.
Both Alberta teams are wicked. It's those pesky Canucks that can get bent :)
Why do you think others should be held to a higher standard than you hold yourself?
I have voted conservative, liberal, NDP based on the platforms at the time. I think in my voting history I have voted conservative most. The UCP government has been leaning further and further right and has totally lost my vote. I feel that we are a knife edge away from losing so many rights. We are being blindsided by the hidden agenda of this government, as a woman, I feel very anxious that my bodily autonomy is going to be taken away. I’m all for advocating for what is important to the Province, however this government is constantly on the offensive with the Feds and escalates everything to red hot. The movement away from provable science and facts toward unproven ideas and feelings gives me absolutely zero confidence that this government has the best interests of all Albertans at heart.
Interesting perspective. What bodily autonomy rights are you concerned about losing? The right to independent medical decisions? Abortion rights? Forced religious covering? I was genuinely unaware that women's bodily autonomy was a concern in Alberta/Canada.
I worry that the underlying fundamental religious influences this Government seems to be embracing with their anti lgbtq2s actions will lead to abortion restrictions. Women have long struggled to get close to equal rights and we’re not there yet. It was only in the ‘70s that women were able to open a bank account without a man’s signature. Even now it can be a struggle to be heard, to have fundamentalist ideology such as women should be in the home serving her man influencing government is deeply troubling.
I'm not sure why I got smacked with yet another -7 downvotes for my question. Regardless. I would like to engage with you on this topic. Thank you for bringing the historical limitations on women's rights to my attention. I was unaware of the practice of "coverture" and what equated to male ownership of their wives in the 1800s. Granting total control to the male. It seems so bizarre to a Millenial that has only known the era of full women's rights and empowerment. I revere the women in my life. From my fiercely independent and beautiful wife. To my incredible mother, a registered nurse of 40+ years. All the way back to my grandmother's, who were both farmers that dabbled in real estate and direct marketing. Are women's bodily rights under attack in Alberta? I asked my wife and mother what they thought today. They both believe the first abortion anyone requires is an understandable mistake. However, anyone relying on abortion as birth control is very problematic. They believe that they have more opportunity and access to services than men could ever hope to have. They also expressed appreciation that they don't have to work in a mine repairing heavy equipment for 3000 hours per year like I do. I realize this is a small anecdotal sampling of our society. But that was their perspective. My daughter is 14 and Metis. She will be starting an early electrician apprenticeship program this September through school. That is a profound opportunity compared to even 20 years ago. In summary, while I respect your perspective. I simply don't see it the same way. I see the march of progress for women's rights continuing forward. Look at Premier Smith herself. She has accomplished so much in her media business. Running a farm to table restaurant. And eventually becoming Premier of the best province in Canada. Is that not remarkable and something to be celebrated? Look at Italian Prime Minister Georgia Meloni. Many left leaning people vilified her as an absolute monster that was going to rewind social progress in Italy by hundreds of years. Fast forward two years, none of those fears were founded. Georgia is now one of the most influential women in politics on Earth.
> Are women's bodily rights under attack in Alberta? I asked my wife and mother what they thought today. They both believe the first abortion anyone requires is an understandable mistake. However, anyone relying on abortion as birth control is very problematic. I truthfully don’t think women rely on abortion as birth control, but women should have access to abortions whether it be their first or second abortion. Sex Education and access to contraceptives is the first line in reducing the need for an abortion. Statistics on number of abortions performed per year. https://www.arcc-cdac.ca/media/2020/07/statistics-abortion-in-canada.pdf
It's interesting to see the abortion numbers going down. That is a good sign of successful sex education and contraceptive utilization. Despite the raving lunatics on the fringes of Conservatism in Canada. There is no federal or provincial Conservative party that is actively trying to eliminate access to abortion. People also willfully ignore that it was the Harper Conservatives that brought gay marriage to Canada. How's that for "anti-LGBTQ"? I'll also concede that the same phenomenon happens with the fringes of left-wing parties supporting a Universal Basic Income. The parties are not actively pursuing it. They have calculators. As always, targeted assistance for those in need is optimal. Helicopter money is irresponsible and highly inflationary.
Same sex marriage was legalized in Canada on July 20, 2005. The bill was introduced and passed under Paul Martin’s liberal government.
Interesting, you are correct. Two Liberal cabinet ministers resigned to vote against the bill. One NDP MP was kicked out of the caucus for her opposition to the bill. I was confusing the 2006 free vote in the House of Commons with the passing of the Civil Marriage Act. The minority Harper government initiated a free (non-whipped) vote on restoring the "traditional definition of marriage." The House overwhelmingly voted to keep the Civil Marriage Act intact. Afterward, Harper stated, "That settles it for good." Melissa Lantsman is in line to become the first openly lesbian deputy prime minister. That's pretty cool. The Poilievre crew is going to be far more Libertarian than previous Conservative governments. Hopefully, they introduce legislation that breaks up all of the business cartels in Canada to get some legitimate free market competition going on here. We desperately need it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Marriage_Act
> Interesting, you are correct. Two Liberal cabinet ministers resigned to vote against the bill. One NDP MP was kicked out of the caucus for her opposition to the bill. Why do you point out the liberal & NDP votes against, while not mentioning the conservatives. Regardless this decision took place nearly 20 years ago. Same people’s opinions will have move forward since then. Some will have stayed the same.
It's more interesting that a Liberal cabinet minister was willing to resign over it than a social Conservative expectedly opposing it. It's all history now. As I've previously pointed out. The march of progress is highly unlikely to be reversed. Only a select few individuals are deeply opposed to alternative sexualities. Most people don't really give a frig. I just find modern rainbow warriors to be lame as fuck and annoying. A far cry from heroes like Harvey Milk.
Women have been regarded as chattel forever. They have been married off to the highest bidder, told they were not intellectually able to have an opinion or say politically and treated as second class citizens until well into the 20th century. That you were unaware of female struggles for equality is a sad reflection of our education system and also an example of male privilege. Statistics and records show that there are very few incidents of women having multiple abortions as a form of birth control. It is a very emotionally and physically invasive procedure that is not taken lightly. The federal government universal healthcare proposal that was rejected out of hand by the UCP had full coverage for birth control which would be an absolute game changer for the economically challenged and would help avoid abortions. I look at what is happening south of the border and see absolute chaos, with people taking books away from libraries, limiting education and taking away a woman’s right to autonomy over their bodies. This is in a country that proclaims itself to be the beacon light of democracy. I see what is happening here with the polarization of politics and the steps being taken to limit access of trans individuals to medical care. As a libertarian, I would have thought that the introduction of more rules and interference by government into personal autonomy would be abhorrent to you and you would be against that on principle even though it may not affect you personally. I struggle to find any positive connection with Premier Smith. Her association with and endorsement of Tucker Carlson, her podcasts and radio shows where she took extreme positions on things like cancer etc. and her “misspeaking” is disturbing to me. I find the UCP ethos to be fundamentally unkind and self serving.
I see chaos in Canada. With productivity in rapid decline and our quality of life rapidly deteriorating. As a Libertarian, I would like to see gay married couples defending their Marijuana crops with a firearm. What sort of medical access is being limited to trans individuals? As a Libertarian, I would like individuals to be accountable for their own health. That includes acquiring private insurance suitable to the individuals family requirements. To Canadians, this view may seem monstrous. For the majority of humanity, this is a perfectly normal view. As a Libertarian, I would like to see women have inalienable personal rights. Total equality. Everything should be based on merit. If females are superior at specific things, they shall rise to the top of their fields.
Nobody whines quite like a conservative.
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Because the UCP are the current, active government. The NDP aren't the ones enacting policies and doing errepairable mass damage to the Albertan economy and your social, educational and judicial structures. I absolutely believe the NDP should be held to account when they screw up. Politics don't deserve a cult following. If criticizing your government (who is literally there to represent the will of the people in the first place) offends you then you might be approaching politics wrong. They are simply a legal representative of the mass majority's interests. Do you feel the UCP are serving the masses or are they personally benefitting while the rich get richer? Look at their policies, how similar policies have had problems occur in other countries or even in our own history and make a decision from there. This isn't hard.
Last I checked the NDP were held to account, and lost a lot of favor due to their slide right. They're Alberta's actual conservative party now, let's all be honest with ourselves. Do I agree with the whole platform? Hell no. Do I agree with enough of it that I can vote for that over a platform trying to sell my healthcare off for parts? In zero seconds. I'd love to vote for the Alberta party, but I have been less happy with their platform than I've been unhappy with the NDP one and the liberals aren't viable here. I agree with you though, the team sports needs to stop. It's quite interesting watching the absolute regression to fascism and how it's just accepted. Now I know people panic at fascism being overused. 1 group is aggregating power towards themselves while aggregating wealth there as well. Perhaps kleptocracy is a better term? Regardless, we are being squeezed, actively, by the group in power, and their supporters have decided it's a boogey man causing it. Be that Trudeau or Motley, neither which makes any sense. How the fuck do we dig out of this. We often suggest edu action gets us out, but the government in power is even dismantling that! It's impressively regressive.
Yes, the NDP had multiple failures. I agree. How do we get out of this? By funding the lowest class and stop giving tax breaks to the wealthiest. You complain about the long term consequences of UCP policies but you choose to keep voting for the same platform. If you don't like what you see, stop voting in a vacuum. Vote outside those two parties. That's what most people should do.
Oh don't you fret, I'd never vote for the UCP, if I wanted a conservative government I'd vote in the NDP. Preferably we'd get an actually socially progressive party. But alas, we sit with the overtone shifting NDP.
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They echo conservative policies. How they choose to identify while they align themselves isn't always the case in practice. Again, we should be voting by policy, not political party for a reason.
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Until we have a best party, least bad is the option.
We need to mobilize as a country. The reality is all our leaders failed us whatever our personal interests are. Nobody but the already rich are basically happy at this point and we are so divided its easy for us to be conquered. It's not conservative versus liberal. It's rich versus poor. And we get nowhere until we work together and mobilize.
Read the platform. It's a fundamentally conservative platform. That said, I'll take them over whatever this is.
Maybe the UCP should try being less awful?
The UCP aren’t about idea’s. There a grifting machine for themselves and their donors. That’s it. End of discussion!🤷♂️
Completely objectively speaking, the UCP are awful and making the worst decisions possible for Alberta while selling off our public services to their buddies to make a profit for abysmal services compared to what we received before it was privatized. It’s a common playbook. There’s a reason there’s so much UCP hatred. They suck balls.
Can you tell me why they're choosing to intentionally defund social programs while the opiod epidemic flourishes and hits an all time high under UCP initiated policies?
Defund?
Despite calling for civilized political discussion and decrying hostility, the OP's subsequent behavior contradicts their plea. OP failed to engage constructively and resorted to name-calling, undermining their own call for respectful dialogue. The best example of a keyboard warrior hypocrite extraordinaire I have seen in a while.
If you want to hang out with cons, go to literally any canada subreddit other than /onguardforthee You'll find a huge right wing echo chamber to scream into, have fun!
> Or can we actually engage in some civilized political discussion? Wait......... are the UCP doing this now? This environment is fuelled by the people in charge. They refuse to engage in good faith and have for many years.
There was a town hall with the NDP Health Critic and she was saying that LeGrange was refusing to meet at all. Kind of tells me what I need to know about this party. I used to be a conservative voter. And I lived downtown when Kent Hehr was in provincially. I remember going to him as my MLA. He said. Well, we aren’t in power. So there’s not as much as I can do. But why don’t I set us up a meeting with the conservative minister. And he did. And everyone showed up and got along and we worked on the issue together. That’s what I’m not liking about the UCP. Once upon a time in this province they actually tried to make it at least look like they were working together. These guys came in with earplugs and seem to still be refusing to listen. It’s frustrating because if you have a UCP MLA like I did last cycle, they don’t respond at all. And then if you get an NDP MLA they can try but their counterparts refuse to meet. It’s so aggravating.
The UCP suck. Enough said.
So funny! I see the opposite. Trudeau haters, federal government haters. Wealthy people haters. Maybe we are a balanced group on a steady teeter totter.
Consequences for supporting such grotesque political pariahs, I'd imagine.
[when you post to complain about Discourse, do shitty Discourse, and people reward your shitty discourse with downvotes](https://youtu.be/pw-dF5l3pDU?si=8STm7wYBh7gVqLF5)
You can love or hate the UCP, but I think many Albertans are terrified of becoming the Texas of the North, which seems to be exactly where they are taking us. Reduced human rights, rampant whataboutism, blatant cronyism and financial dereliction just to prove a political point. After 20 mostly great years in this province I’m leaving. Even the beauty of the Rocky Mountains in our backyard can’t compensate for this ****show, and believe me I love the mountains.
Isn't Texas thriving? I think interstate and international migration to Texas is very high. Net domestic migration to Texas was 230,000 in 2022. Florida was number one at 318,000. It's Michigan, Illinois, and California that have the highest outmigration statistics. I guess I consider economics and prosperity far more important than social issues. Texas does need to cool it on violating women's reproductive rights for sure. However, a woman in Texas is free to defend her property from threats with a firearm. That helps prevent situations like we are seeing in Toronto, where criminals flagrantly assault the public and steal their vehicles without consequence.
That may well be true, but from my perspective economics are not the primary driver of quality of life. For sure they matter but not at any cost. Sure anyone can defend themself with deadly force but the result of that appears to be by far the highest gun related deaths in the USA. https://www.statista.com/statistics/301603/murder-involving-firearms-us/ Is that something you want for Alberta ? I don’t think many Albertans would agree.
I want the creeps that prowl my vehicles and try my house doorknobs several times a week to fuck off. Law enforcement and the justice system are apparently useless now. People should absolutely have the right to defend themselves. Seems like the only people the justice system charges these days are the ones defending themselves against criminals. That's fucked up.
So just shoot first and ask questions later? Are you gonna roll out the “the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun” line next?
In a society with consequences, criminality is drastically reduced. There are two routes: authoritarian police states like Singapore or Saudi Arabia. Or self-defense deterrence like Texas. One thing is for sure, Canada can not continue on this current trajectory.
If I were you I’d just move to Texas and love it. You’re welcome to your guns, criminalized abortion and electric chairs
I'm happily married to a Metis goddess. I also have a vasectomy, not really concerned about abortion hysteria. Never needed one. Condoms were always readily available in high school. Birth control is cheap as fuck. While I honestly don't care if someone needs one, it's sure not something I would ever willingly put a sexual partner through. Capital punishment? Yeah, that's a strong deterrent of disgusting crimes. I would be OK with feeding pedophiles to the polar bears of Churchill, Manitoba. Firearms are great. Have you ever shot a few 300 ultra magnum rounds out of a rifle? It's exhilarating! I am actively applying for work in Tucson, AZ, and some mining regions in Texas. It's difficult as a skilled tradesperson. I may have to retrain as a registered nurse or something. I am a typical Albertan. We like these things. Only Edmonton based leftists despise their own province. Never realizing that NDP ruled BC is even more fucked up than Alberta.
Off you go then. I’m sure you’ll love it there.
I agree, it's hard to engage when a certain ideology believes it's their way or nothing.
Uhhh you’ll find that many UCP voters are also pissed with the actions of Smiths government…
Good luck, lefties everywhere. Pick your battles, hatred is spewed everywhere.
I agree, the bias is quite obvious and it really limits the conversation. I’ll say r/Albertapolitics has a little more diversity than r/Alberta, so I’ll give credit where credit is due. This shows the some of the good things the UCP has done, is doing, or plans to do, from the source. https://www.unitedconservative.ca/ucp-platform-2023/ UCPers should read the NDP platform as well https://www.albertandp.ca/plan There are quite a bit of overlapping end goals. Everyone wants affordability, good education, healthcare, environment, liberty, etc
Bang on, mate! We're not adversaries. Common goals need to become the focus of our attention.
The UCP has provided plenty of cause for seething hatred. It is *far* worse on the opposite side of the spectrum in places like canada\_sub. I could name some reasonable UCP decisions, but there have been too many that only make sense through a lens of ignorance, extreme ideology or straight-up corruption to every trust them to make future decisions in the best interests of the province or its people. They lie, repeatedly, provably and in not-subtle ways that it is impossible not to see overtones of truth-averse authoritarianism championed by Trump and Putin, and I am completely embarrassed to live in a province represented by Danielle Smith. In a functional democracy she should not have come near political power. That she was elected and is likely to be re-elected as Premier is a brutal indictment of our educational system, but also of our inability to find enough common ground with rural Albertans that the UCP can position themselves as protectors of their way of life. It is *vital* that we have a venue for civilized conversation, and I wish Reddit could be part of that. The swarm of anonymous downvoting of right-wing perspectives that happens in this sub is unhelpful ,cowardly, and rampant. If people are posting straight up misinformation, downvote away and tell them why - maybe they learn something, maybe they don't, maybe they shock you with cold facts that support their claims - but people shouldn't be slammed just for having an unpopular opinion. People hold sincere beliefs that are provably cuckoo bananas to a comical degree, and we're blindly downvoting them so hard we may as well be recruiting for the Flat Earth Society rather than trying to onboard them to the same reality we currently inhabit. I say this as a pro-life, atheist, small-government fiscal conservative who is against DEI and other social justice constructs, for welfare stronger supports but against endless welfare handouts, for immigration but only in a surgical way through which Canada can exploit the skills and education of foreigners to support the needs of our economy as our population ages, against the current LGBTQ+ movement but only because it is being forced on people in a binary and guilt-driven way that has become counter productive, for taking serious measures to tackle carbon emissions/climate change but mostly against the consumer carbon tax despite recognizing it is not a financial burden to most Canadians (outside BC, sorry west coasters), pro-vaccine but against the Covid-era vaccine mandates, overly verbose logic-driven Reddit hobo. Pretty much anything I type is going to offend someone. At the end of the day I'm looking for politicians to make apolitical decisions and for people to exercise basic critical thinking before spreading opinions, which tragically leaves me without an echo chamber to call home.
It's cause it's easy. Actually coming up with better practices and real solutions to problems is hard. It's a lot easier to just spout "UCP bahd".
It's very left biased and the mods let the left sling personal attacks like hell but as a conservative you must always bite your tongue keep everything above board. I mean, it's good practice but this is fundamentally a very biased subreddit. Come hear to learn the left perspective but don't expect most in here to approach any issues with the same openness.
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44% of the population voted for the NDP. A fairly significant portion of the electorate.
..44% of 60% of eligible voters. It's that 40% who didn't vote that I wonder about. That means less than 30% of eligible voters voted for the NDP. As well, the UCP formed gov't with the support of 33.5% of the voting public. The 33.5% is the same number that Smith enjoyed 2 weeks before the election. During the 28 day campaign, Smiths number fell in battleground Calgary but improved remarkably in "other" (outside of Calgary and Edmonton). There were two constituencies in Calgary, one rural and Lethbridge East that were gettable for the NDP but for influences. That still brings up the NDP 2 seats short of a majority. All this isn't relevant as the UCP has a 6 seat majority. I do still wonder about the 40% who didn't vote.
There is really no way of knowing the thoughts of those who don’t vote. You can’t really claim they are left leaning or right leaning.
I doubt eligible voters who decided not to vote are going to be hanging out in an Alberta Politics sub. If they didn’t think their voice mattered there… why bother to come on here?
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I hear you on your miss alignment on voices to electorate ratio however, wouldn’t it be safe to assume that the majority (maybe slim) of the UCP voters are not the ones who have all the social media’s? By this I mean the I’d bet money on the average age of a UCP voter is higher than the average age of an NDP voter.
Fair enough. I think that occurs to a point. And it’s unfortunate when it happens in genuine conversations and discourse.
>That number would be closer to 90 - 95% NDP supporters IMO Ya, Alberta conservatives are found on Facebook.
That's exactly the point I'm making here. I've already hemorrhaged all of my karma. This sub is rotten to the core. It's a shame, Reddit has great potential as a philosophical forum.
lol - good luck, this has devolved a long time ago into a left wing echo chamber/propaganda thread
This sub sucks Marx's balls hard.
Damn what happened to the marketplace of ideas? Funny how the veneer of "let's engage in a respectful exchange" melted away when your misrepresentations got push back. You're a conservative.
Libertarian. Guess what? We don't love any authoritarianism. Left or Right.
Yeah to the extent that the collection of taxes is considered authoritarian. That's the reason you guys generally find a lot more compatibility with the right wing. It's easy to fall into a generalization of all government bad living in this province for sure
>We don't love any authoritarianism. This is completely untrue. They are not mutually exclusive. It isn't hard to imagine individuals within the libertarian spectrum prioritizing different values or objectives at different times, sometimes favoring authoritarian solutions to address perceived threats or achieve specific goals, while still maintaining a fundamental belief in individual liberty and limited government intervention overall.
I suppose if there was a violent Communist revolution happening, Libertarians would be forced to act. Ever read, "For Whom the Bell Tolls" by Hemmingway. It does a great job of portraying pacifist Libertarian types being forced into action by the extreme actions of authoritarian types. It's a fascinating read. The protagonist begins to really question whether fighting against the perceived enemy is ethical.
LMAO libertarians are selfish useless idiots who buy into capitalist and conservative narratives. Every libertarian experiment has failed and descended into anarchy. You (the royal "you" as in libertarians) rely on public infrastructure and government support systems while proudly spewing that you're "independent".
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You hold strong biases and engage in generalizations about those with differing political views. You express frustration with what you perceive as censorship and intolerance from the left, while simultaneously exhibiting tendencies towards similar behavior. You seem to lack self-awareness or consistency in your arguments and have removed all nuance. Let me try and provide some. **"They don't attack or argue your points but they respond to how it makes them feel, so it can very easily come across as hate and not an argument."** – This strikes me as overlooking how emotions can play a legitimate role in our responses. Aren't our feelings often tied to our deepest convictions and values, making them an integral part of the discussion?" **"They also love control of people if it makes them feel safe or secure. They are very quick to give up freedoms or choices if it makes them feel positive and do so with excitement and vigor if it can be used against their opposition, ignoring the obvious fact that those limitation and restrictions will also eventually end up being used against them."** the desire for control or safety isn't owned by any one side. Don't we all grapple with finding that balance between freedom and security, making it a shared dilemma rather than a point of division?" **"That is why they come up with things like hate speech that they will relate to any criticism of any group they deem special."** it feels like your not fully considering the complexity of navigating between free speech and hate speech. Isn't the challenge here to protect individuals from harm while also preserving open dialogue, something we should all be striving to balance?" **"While most on the center or right welcome opposing views since it gives them a chance to actually discuss it, most on the left fear and fight against views they do not approve of."** isn't it possible that openness and resistance to different opinions are traits that can be found across the entire political spectrum? Maybe the issue isn't so much about left versus right but more about how we all approach and engage with differing viewpoints. **"Last thing is that many conservatives have learned that people on the left have no issues going after them personally, even if it means ruining their job or reputation so there is HUGE self-censorship on the right of center."** Your concern that 'many conservatives have learned that people on the left have no issues going after them personally...' highlights a broader issue of civility in our discourse. But don't you think this problem of personal attacks, rather than debating ideas, is something that affects everyone, not just one side? Encouraging a culture of respect and understanding could be a step towards better dialogue for us all.