The imperium would put up a better fight than most sci-fi empires, but they're less advanced than the star people, and while use of warp travel would be helpful, it wouldn't be enough against the Qu
The Star people were less adapted to war and didn’t really have any experience in it up until the Qu war. FTL travel is actually extremely vital as the Imperium can actually reinforce and attempt to take back lost territory from The Qu. In tech being able to destroy stars is as far as we know about star people technology in terms of war. We don’t know how they use it, what it needs, how long it takes to reload, etc. meanwhile the Imperium has extermintaus, which is lesser but more know about and can be performed whenever they please. One more factor to consider is that The Imperium is much bigger than the Star person Empire as they only had an arm of the Galaxy, while the Imperium has 1 million spread all over
That's only because the Warp doesn't exist in All Tomorrows. The Star People couldn't achieve FTL because there is no FTL to achieve.
Hell, technically the Imperium doesn't have FTL, they have teleportion based on movement through a sub-dimension of the universe. Their ships never move faster than light.
But the Qu would be invading the Imperial Galaxy so it would exist. Its still FTL travel, as its getting the Imperium places faster than light, so it counts as FTL travel. +the Asteromorphs would eventually invent there own kind of FTL travel with wormholes, so there is a possible way to get it, its just that they have to be much more advanced in the All Tomorrows Universe
The Qu didn't have FTL iirc? They travel at near-light speed. They're immortal and they only start to get bored after 10,000+ years, as we see with their occupation of Mankind. I don't think the Qu have FTL
To be fair the Orion arm (our arm of the galaxy) is roughly 10,000 light years in length, and it is said the Star People filled it. This doesn’t mean they colonized every single planet in the Orion arm, but we can assume they reached from the end to the start of the arm. With the Qu destroying most of humanity in 1000 years, that means the Qu most likely did have FTL in order to travel along the arm to reach all of of the Star Peoples planets in that span of time.
Even so if they had FTL, it has been proven much slower. The Few first Tyranic wars, the Damocles Crusade and The Horus Heresy were on a much bigger scale compared to the Qu War, and yet much shorter, with the galaxy spanning war of the Horus heresy only lasting 9 years, compared to the 1000 year Qu war in just the Orion arm.
True, but we don’t know which stars have habitable planets. The Covenant from Halo for example are said to have control over the majority of the Orion arm, but we definitely know they don’t have a billion systems, as with that many resources they would’ve destroyed the UNSC within a few years.
The Imperium is a whole galactic Empire, and if they didn’t state their world numbers, we would likely assume they would have trillions of worlds as well.
The Imperium of man has a significant amount of advantages on the Star People, like FTL travel, psychic future prediction, the Astronomicon, Exterminatus level weaponry being commonplace
And Qu have Necron level of technology combined with Tyranid level of gene manipulation.
Breeding genius commanders, their own super-soldiers and giving Pariah gene after discovering it in humans will most likely guarantee they will win.
And btw, Exterminatus is last resort.
I still doubt the Qu would win, but Exterminatus this and Exterminatus that gets pretty old. 40k is a franchise that somehow always manages to force ground fighting and sword fights despite massive technology that should cause fights to be almost entirely in space. It does this to sell a tabletop game. People take it way too seriously. It's supposed to be fun.
They just want angry genocidal man with insignia to press red button so billions would die.
Even tho inuniverse you almost certainly need to get permit from higher-ups to use several megatons of expensive planet-destroying weapons. And I'm not even going to explain how much specific parties in Imperium will be pissed by this, if you exterminate one of their worlds.
My theory is that they just don't go that far, even tho they have all necessary technology to do so.
Even Necrons themselves dont really spend such powerful artifacts on every planet, after all they are C'than shards that are limited in numbers.
Qu most likely possess the tech, but did they need it to destroy local DET mankind? Not really.
I feel like you're overselling the Qu. They haven't demonstrated anything near necron levels of tech (Massively FTL, Space and Time manip, weirder things like the Celestial Orrery and no one is going to convince me the Qu dont get folded by the Void Dragon). Secondly, discovering the paraiah gene is unlikely to be a thing they just come across and understand given how insanely rare it is (i believe inquisitor Vale described it as being "as rare to psykers as psykers are to normal people"). Beyond that they have no inherent resistance to psykers, and the mothballed dark age tech the Mechanicus has is very likely to give them issues when you consider how much faster the imperial logistical chain is (as ironic as that is). The Qu are just out sped and drowned in a tide of Las bolts, psyker lightning and good old fashioned cyclonic torpedoes.
Ps. If the Qu are half the threat you're billing them as exterminatus is 100% on the table. "Better burn it then let the alien have it" is 110% the mindset of the inquisition if they know they can't keep it and won't be able to take it.
You, people, unimaginably deluded about Necron capabilities.
1. The reality-fucking tech Necron have is Cthan-powered, extremely rare, and not all Necrons possess it because Necrons also have Dynastical hierarchy, and the most prominent ones are the ones who have said tech. If every Necron Lords all over Galaxy would possess said tech, Imperium would guarantee to lose every fucking world where Tomb would be discovered. No amount of Warp fuckery or billions and trillions of lasguns won't stop army that can control time itself.
2. Pariah genes can be potentially have specific prerequisites that needs to be met for Pariah to appear. And obtaining isn't that hard, Inquisition would probably send some Culexus Assasin, mistakenly thinking that xenos probably have psykers. And even if not, Null-Fields are in realm of possibility still, pretty possible tech to block psykers and banish Ruinous Powers.
3. The Imperial Logistical chain doesn't have problems. Problems are Imperial bureaucracy and the fact that orders from Terra come centuries and millennia later. Entire Guard Regiments just sit on their asses, get married, die, and only next generation will receive order for relocation for war. Do you think such communication is effective? It is also not stated how much FTL Qu actually was, but considering that only some planets managed to give some resistance, AFTER mankind already knew who attacks them, it will be somewhat problematic to fight enemy who will know if not everything, at least 90% about your physiology. After that it's pretty much arms race, which Imperium in his stagnancy guarantee to lose.
4. No, Exterminatus is last resort. Genocidal Inquisitors usually have a very bad experience of being decked by Space Wolves, other Inquisitors and in many cases by Lords of Terra or local Astartes Chapters. Even if enemy is dangerous, its forbidden to go MAD if there is a chance to save resources from planet. And dont even let me start at how much pissed AdMechs will be if one of their Forge Worlds will run ablaze because someone was murder-triggered. Not only AdMechs will be pissed, 80% of sectors imperial military will be pissed for destroying important world.
P.S: 40K is overrated anyway. Since 80s, so many new sci-fi concepts were invented, every next one is more and more sophisticated and devastating compared to primitive terms that used by GW writers who try to mix dark fantasy with sci-fi. And that's considering, 40K was just a satire in beginning, and a Fantasy Battles in space.
Nope, just a fan of both settings who happened to run across this discussion. Sounds like you might be one of those things you mentioned though - those people tend to be the angry, snappy type.
The only Imperium faction I enjoy are Imperial Knights, and people that were mentioned will mistakenly guess those are some fancy Astartes chapter.
But no, its completely different branch of imperial war machine. And the one that is actually has some decency, unlike Astartes and, may the Emps forgive me, Krieg and Inquisition.
I'm angry because you assumed after what I have written don't know what I'm talking about, but I have spent almost 15 years learning 40K.
Fair point - I'll take your word for it, and you have my apologies for assuming you might just be someone who had picked up a bit on 40k whilst getting annoyed about all the people constantly talking about it.
In all fairness, my annoyance here is more at that last paragraph or so, where you are frustrated about people talking up 40k, while I see the same thing going on here with All Tomorrows.
Scifi universes are inherently awkward to compare, not just because of technological progress, but because the laws of physics tend to work annoyingly different in each one, and because in some cases (40k's writers are particularly guilty here), the writers for a scifi universe don't have a proper sense of scope and depth, or at least, have differing understandings of it, and therefore it is inconsistent between settings, and even the real world (see Warhammer 40k post battle casualties over entire planets, compared to real world casualties in various historical wars as a shining example of this).
I look through this thread and see people massively overselling both the imperium *and* the Qu. Weapons aside, the imperium is a bureaucratic nightmare, and likely wouldn't even bother to respond to a threat until the Qu had made a substantial dent in imperial space - all likely because of something stupid like a planetary governor being too proud to report a loss against aliens, or the message just getting lost in the paperwork for a thousand years.
By the same token, even if the Qu were to absolutely clean the imperium's proverbial clock, I still don't know if we call that a win, or hell, if they'd even be able to do that. I say this because while the Qu are toted as being an immortal (I don't recall this off the top of my head, but I did see it referenced a few times in this thread), powerful, space faring race with plans that it would be *generous* to describe as long-term, they still ultimately are laid low by an intergalactic alliance, spearheaded by a *race that they previously overwhelmingly defeated*. As immortal spacefarers with plans that extend the scope of *eons*, planning for evolutionary change over exceptional periods of time, and possible interactions with the wreckage of previous empires and species should be one of, if not their *biggest* concerns, and yet they fail utterly to thoroughly wipe out the remnant technology and records of the space people, and also fail to anticipate an evolutionary comeback of the descendants of humanity. It may seem reasonable to us as readers at first to see someone overlook those things, but if your empire, and even your very *individual people* can live that long, then their minds and their plans should operate on that scope and scale. My whole point here, is if the Qu invade the imperium, what's to say they don't essentially do the same thing they did in their own setting? I mean, that seems very likely. And in that case, future evolutions of humanity's disparate genetic offshoots may find old records, just as they did in All Tomorrows, and then you just have the same scenario playing out again, but with more Imperium of Man flavor. Is that really a Qu *victory*? I wouldn't call it that.
Hopefully this also is worthwhile proof back that I'm not just some shit troll, and have given things a fair share of thought as well, friend.
P.S. God I hate the stupid "culture war" people. I can't blame you being on your guard there. 👍
*Edit(s) for grammar*
I know. In fact, Qu have the same problem Emperor has - underestimated their own creation, thinking it will not backfire if they will do horrendous crimes.
My apologies as well.
and you know what happens 9/10 times the imperium faces off against the necrons? the necrons lose. because even with all the technology the necrons have, nothing beats the good old human spirit
I mean, perseverance of humanity is a theme in all tomorrow's as well - the scale is different, but the end result is similar. Humanity persists and prevails, albeit a bit pyrhically.
But the option for exterminatus is probably much more available than spacers destroying stars. All the we can’t say so for sure spacers probably have a harder time destroying stars compared to the instant push of a button for the Imperium
Yeah, I have to agree. The Qu are a threat FAR beyond anything 40k has to offer. The Star People were AT LEAST on par with DAoT humans, and the Qu destroyed them without a second thought. It wasn't even a war to them, it was a milk run. They didn't bother killing the Star People because they didn't have to.
Being fair, it's explicitly stated that the Star People had weapons capable of destroying stars with ease, something which only the Necrons have.
Also, there is no Warp equivalent in All Tommorrows, that's why FTL is impossible. So, not only would the Imperium lose their FTL, but all the psykers would be useless. Not to mention all the normal soldiers would feel dread at losing their souls suddenly.
Why are we giving the qu the advantage of warp not working? That literally kills the imperium immediately and is also a massive advantage that might allow the imperium a fighting Chance. The way the op describes the scenario I assumed the qu were invading the 40k galaxy so they would have warp and psykers still.
The Qu would likely quickly lose in that scenario tho. A species without FTL, or even the souls to use it, couldn't survive in 40K.
This is just an inherent issue to power-scaling between universes with different laws of physics.
"This is just an inherent issue to power-scaling between universes with different laws of physics." Couldn't have said it better myself but i think i have to go with warp being included because otherwise what are we even doing? The imperium without warp would just collapse on its own without any interaction from the qu so the comparison is meaningless. At least with the warp option one side would actually have to defeat the other. The unfortunate reality is pretty much any setting with FTL will swamp any setting that doesn't have it so comparing them doesn't make sense unless somehow the non FTL setting has some insanely powerful tech that levels the playing field, but i don't see that here.
Same, it's cool to power-scale and imagine entire wars between vast empires, but sometimes it's just up to headcanon. I think it's up to individuals to decide who they want to win. There's too many variables.
I mean maybe I’m wrong but while the imperium does have ftl, their weaponry is still incredibly basic compared to what has to be assumed that the qu possess. The star people could blow up stars. The imperiums closest comparison is exterminatus. Glassing a planet and exploding a star are COMPLETELY different ballgames. The Sun is what, a million times bigger than Earth??? And the qu still washed over the star people with ease. Further, the imperiums strength in their universe is generally in numbers. They’ll just send wave after wave, millions and millions of people, to die in order to attain “victory.” Well, what happens when those waves just don’t do anything? Ftl or not, I would say the Qu have a solid chance of just creeping across the galaxy one world at a time and crushing the imperium. How are they gonna fight back? The Qu have conquered empires, ruled for billions of years. The imperium of man doesn’t learn, doesn’t change, they don’t innovate and invent new methods of attack and defense. I could easily see the Qu coming out on top here
It's not an inherent issue to power scaling, it's an inherent issue to comparatives being drawn between fictional uses in general. The *"power"* part of it is only because there are so many people hell-bent on asking "Could X Beat Y?" Like they never made it out of that middle school Goku vs Superman phase.
Hey I'm not really in this debate but I have a question regarding all tomorrows late book and I think someone here can help me. In the end there is mention of "star shells" or something similar. What does that mean? Dyson Spheres? If so I would have thought that stuff like that would have been invented long ago by the first empire of man/star people.
The Imperium would fare like a tray of tater tots with me.
They could last awhile, and they will extract a cost, but I will have my victory in the end.
With the Qu as the only threat, The Imperium would likely come out on top. FTL travel is a HUGE advantage that the Imperium have over the star people, and as well as their own genetic modification with Space Marines, 1 million worlds, Psychic powers and the Emperor, they definitely have a better chance than the star people. the Qu would likely get deep into Imperium territory and the war would like last a few hundred years as the Imperium can actually reinforce worlds that are under attack, and the Imperium is obviously well adapted to war unlike the star people. Eventually the The Qu would be pushed out of the galaxy, but not without catastrophic losses on the Imperium’s part
This is assuming they still have Warp access, which The Author (the in-universe character) explicitly states nothing like that exists within their world.
Without the Warp, the IoM would be so cooked. With the Warp, it would require the IoM to completely change their tactics to rely on psykers (which I doubt considering how hateful of change and witches they are)
IMO That makes no sense to remove, the warp is integral to the imperium and comparing the imperium with warp to the imperium without warp is like comparing the US army to a single guy with asthma.
The imperium would literally collapse the instant warp travel stops working. Everything in the imperium relies on warp. Food, weapons, workers, soldiers, political power, it's the entire reason the emperor is entombed on the iron throne eternally projecting the astronomicon, because he knows without it there will be another dark age of strife. It's like telling a modern country to fight a war but they also need to destroy every boat, train, truck and car in the entire country... They're going to starve to death.
I'm kinda curious why you think this is happening in the All Tomorrows universe? As a nomadic species that goes around subjugating species then leaving when I hear "how will X fair against the qu?" I'm assuming that the qu are coming to them, not the other way around.
That's the point yea... The Imperium is only strong within their own universe. Acknowledging that fact is part of power-scaling.
If we give the Imperium the Warp, the Qu have nothing to counter it with. It would be an instant defeat upon reaching the 40K universe. This is an issue with power-scaling universes with different laws of physics.
Both sides wouldn't survive within the others' universe. The Qu might have better technology than the necrons, but they don't have FTL or the ability to create. That's game over for them.
I absolutely agree that the power scaling here is messy and comparing FTL settings to non FTL settings is almost impossible, But the Qu absolutely would survive on their own in the 40k universe, the Tau survive with barely having FTL and many parts of the galaxy have nothing to do with the major powers that do have FTL, they're allowed to hide and they can travel between galaxies.
It sounds like the only problem is that everyone else is more powerful than the Qu because they have FTL (the Qu could technically develop it in the new universe btw) if they get themselves killed in that situation it sounds like they lost the exact scenario presented by OP, not because of the setting but because they were weaker when compared directly, it could be the imperium, it could be the necrons, hell it could be the orks, but the setting didn't kill the Qu. In the opposite scenario it's 100% no question the setting that is killing the Imperium.
Yea, but the Tau survived through being diplomatic and resorting to war as a last option. When talking about total-war between the Tau and Imperium (like in the Qu vs Imperium scenario), the Tau would lose very quickly.
I do generally agree though. It's like comparing a great-white-shark to a brown bear. Both are strong, one even stronger (the great-white), but place a great-white in a North-California forest and have them fight? Yeah, there's no way the great-white is winning.
Yeah they probably both get steamrolled in each other's universe, but hey I dont wanna discount the qu too much.
Maybe they capture a few backwater feudal worlds and capture warp ships before the Imperium and it's immense bureaucracy identifies and responds to the threat, then they subjugate and modify the humans and navigators so they have access to the warp too.
Hell I feel a species like the Qu would pretty quickly get involved with warp fuckery. With how much they care about conquest and torturing their enemies Slaanesh + khorne would have a massive erection and possibly help them, Tzeentch might be interested in the creative mutations too. Next thing you know 500 years later they're shocked to find out they broke the navigators when they conquered that one planet called Tera. The Qu are probably too self righteous to do this but nothing's stopping them.
But to make that fair, we would have to take something away from The Qu in that case as that would just be nerfing the Imperium so The Qu
could have an edge. We don’t know much about the Qu’s actual military, but judging by the Fact that the Colonials Planet managed to resist 2 times with no reinforcements, a Qu invasion of lets say a still alive Cadia WITH reinforcements, and with an actually experienced military would likely end in a lost battle if they eltries taking Cadia Alone.
I assume they mostly rely on having great exterminatus technology, so they might struggle in an invasion where they're forced to fight smaller targets like Imperial ships. We see from the picture of them that they're still using conventional arms, so it might be more even than I'm stating. Ultimately it's speculation on both sides.
Yea, i wish we knew more about the Qu military but they would still be able to use Space Marines the Guard against the possible Qu infantry. Tho im assuming any Imperial’s trying to board a Qu ship is a death sentence
Same, tho I understand why Kosemen left it vague when he wrote the book. It makes it more mysterious, but damn does it make power-scaling hard.
Some Astartes terminators might be-able to board a Qu ship. I know they're able to survive while boarding Necron ships, so I'd give them a good chance to pull it off.
Honestly I don’t think the Qu are as powerful as people Make them to be compared to other sci fi. For example using the Galactic Republic or even the UNSC, if all there militaries clashed the Qu would likely stomp. But due to how slow paced invasions are in all tomorrows, sci fi with FTL can quickly adapt and destroy the Qu or any other factions in All tomorrows except the Asteromorphs. Although the Qu could maybe reverse engineer this tech, but even though I admittedly have no proof, the Qu seem to prideful to use the tech of another group.
The Qu lacking FTL and some of the more wild tech of the other civilizations always made me wonder why people think they stomp everyone. Especially when you consider the Star People weren't exactly a warrior society
We don't know a lot about the Q and their technology, but they will probably be the Imperium's worst nightmare. They likely have tech comparable to the Necrons while also having the biological mastery of the Tyranids and the genestealer cults. The Imperium is very vulnerable to infiltration and subversive activity, and the Q could easily create genestealer Esq infiltrators that destroy the Imperium from the inside.
On top of that, the Q can also turn the few advantages the Imperium does have against them. Their genetic engineering skills means that all they would need is a single space marine or psyker or blank, and suddenly they could mass produce soldiers that counter anything the Imperium throws at them. If they got their hands on the Orks or Tyranids, they could maybe even recreate the shadow in the warp or the Ork's weird reality bending. There is nothing to suggest that the Q couldn't learn how to manipulate the warp once they are in the 40k galaxy, so I don't think those last two are outside the realm of possibility.
I do think that out of all the factions in 40k, Chaos would probably deal with the Q pretty easily. Their obsession with genetic engineering and remaking the universe in their image seems like it would lead them right into the arms of Slaanesh, or potentially Nurgle if you lean into the cyclical nature of their invasions.
Who’s to say they haven’t already fought against something Qu-like during the Great Crusade?
To answer, I think they’ll take some losses at first but could potentially beat them in the long term
Less than a a thousand years as both sides didn’t have FTL. The Imperium FTL would likely Make the war quicker and deadlier for the Qu, as they can actually send reinforcements to there worlds and prepare world for an invasion as it takes such a long tome for the Qu to travel.
Imperium of mam still is able to compete with eldar ,necrons and tyranids each of them geared for war and necrons could guve even qu run for their money
Something imperium has on their side is mechanicum and their war machines along with fanatical zael
Also another wildcard is catachan jungle fighters who are masters of asymetrical warfare and that's not to be underestimated
Also mechanicum could in theory "rebuild" even gene. Modded humans
I don’t know how much would the Imperium resist, but I would assume the Qu would be evil enough to learn of their hatred for other species… and merge the defeated into hybrid abominations.
Could you imagine an Astartes being left with its conscience intact while knowing he’s turned into some kind of pathetic worm that has to share body and crawl into caves with half an ork body?
From all I know, the Qu might be cooked. We don't know much about the Qu. They show up, mess with genetics, take 1000 years, and fly off. Then millions of years later get wiped out by an extra galactic combined force.
FTL doesn't exist for them, so it's literally all sub light stuff. 40k has the Warp and just crazy logistics. Assuming that it's just the Imperium vs. the Qu. The Qu gets early victories, and the just sort of grind to a halt as the greater Imperium becomes Aware.
Direction the Qu come from andd what Era it is also affects alot of this.
In my opinion,
The Pre-Horus Heresy imperium could defeat the Qu, but if we are talking about Post-Horus Heresy imperium, they wouldn't stand a chance.
Both the Horus Heresy, the imperium had 18 loyal demigods leading 18 full space marine legions comprised of around 180,000 marines each plus dreadnoughts, tanks, etc. They had more advanced technology than they Post-Heresy counterparts even though it was 10,000 years prior. The 40k imperium has devolved into madness with chaos and the genestealer cults corrupting the slums of there hive cities. Also the imperium in 30k had far less competition with only the occasional xenos war to exterminate some uncooperative aliens. While the imperium now controls less of the galaxy and fights with Orks, Tau, Eldar, Tyranids, Necrons and Chaos.
It’s always Warhammer Fans that keep sucking off their Franchise, while i agree that the Star People weren’t geared for War they had weapons that would make any Warhammer 40k faction (except the Necrons since they have downright broken technology) shit their pants chief among them being GUNS THAT COULD WIPE OUT SOLAR SYSTEMS BY DESTROYING THEIR STARS. Any age that isn’t Dark Age of Technology Mankind is Screwed
Yea, but we have to make sure we are not blindly sucking off All Tomorrows. We don’t know if the star destroyers are just another weapon to them, and js as easy to use as Exterminataus or an extremely resource drainer just to use once. And again, FTL is thousands of times better than any cannons. It allows for better logistics, trade, information l, and reinforcements, somthing both sides lacked in the Qu War
I am a All Tommorows fan first, I like Sci Fi so both franchises are a joy for me to watch videos and read the book/books of.
I just believe that mankind's peak is equal to the Qu's strength in there invasion of the milky way. Also, All Tommorows is written by someone eons after the actual events. This means like in paleontology as an example, there might be inaccurate information or misunderstandings on the commoness of the technology. Like the guns that can wipe of stars, it could if been a prototype or an infantry weapon. We don't really know.
Both will get wiped out
If the Necrons actually untied and helped the imperium then its a easy imperium victory they most likely will and if the imperium starts losing they will probably blow themselves and the qu up
I dont think the qu are all that much worse than the drukhari. I would think the IoM would deal with them the same as everyone else, expend massive resources and wage an endless forever war theyre always just about to lose.
They'd probably lose but give up a fight. Any Warp based stuff would be their best shot as the QU never faced anything like it before. Apart from that though the star people had like better stand weaponry and was stomped so the imperium would be screwed.
Depends. The Imperium of Man heavily relies on the existence of the Warp. Since All Tommorrows doesn't have a Warp, the IoM would lose their FTL and psykers. This would reduce them to a less advanced Empire than the Summer of Man Empire by a considerable amount.
If we ignore this, and give them Warp access, the Qu still have much better technology than even the Necrons, all without the low numbers that the Necrons suffer from. The only way I could see the Imperium succeeding would be through heavy reliance on psychic energy, which the Qu lack any counter to. But that would require the Imperium to embrace witches and actually change something about their tactics... and that's not exactly on brand for them.
Without the Warp, the Imperium of Man would do worse than the Summer of Man Empire, which had better technology.
With the Warp, I'd give them a 30-40% of victory.
The imperium would put up a better fight than most sci-fi empires, but they're less advanced than the star people, and while use of warp travel would be helpful, it wouldn't be enough against the Qu
The Star people were less adapted to war and didn’t really have any experience in it up until the Qu war. FTL travel is actually extremely vital as the Imperium can actually reinforce and attempt to take back lost territory from The Qu. In tech being able to destroy stars is as far as we know about star people technology in terms of war. We don’t know how they use it, what it needs, how long it takes to reload, etc. meanwhile the Imperium has extermintaus, which is lesser but more know about and can be performed whenever they please. One more factor to consider is that The Imperium is much bigger than the Star person Empire as they only had an arm of the Galaxy, while the Imperium has 1 million spread all over
That's only because the Warp doesn't exist in All Tomorrows. The Star People couldn't achieve FTL because there is no FTL to achieve. Hell, technically the Imperium doesn't have FTL, they have teleportion based on movement through a sub-dimension of the universe. Their ships never move faster than light.
But the Qu would be invading the Imperial Galaxy so it would exist. Its still FTL travel, as its getting the Imperium places faster than light, so it counts as FTL travel. +the Asteromorphs would eventually invent there own kind of FTL travel with wormholes, so there is a possible way to get it, its just that they have to be much more advanced in the All Tomorrows Universe
The Qu didn't have FTL iirc? They travel at near-light speed. They're immortal and they only start to get bored after 10,000+ years, as we see with their occupation of Mankind. I don't think the Qu have FTL
To be fair the Orion arm (our arm of the galaxy) is roughly 10,000 light years in length, and it is said the Star People filled it. This doesn’t mean they colonized every single planet in the Orion arm, but we can assume they reached from the end to the start of the arm. With the Qu destroying most of humanity in 1000 years, that means the Qu most likely did have FTL in order to travel along the arm to reach all of of the Star Peoples planets in that span of time.
Even so if they had FTL, it has been proven much slower. The Few first Tyranic wars, the Damocles Crusade and The Horus Heresy were on a much bigger scale compared to the Qu War, and yet much shorter, with the galaxy spanning war of the Horus heresy only lasting 9 years, compared to the 1000 year Qu war in just the Orion arm.
Yea they didn’t, which is probably why the Star people war lasted so long despite their technological supremacy.
An arm of the Galaxy is still billions upon billions of stars.
True, but we don’t know which stars have habitable planets. The Covenant from Halo for example are said to have control over the majority of the Orion arm, but we definitely know they don’t have a billion systems, as with that many resources they would’ve destroyed the UNSC within a few years. The Imperium is a whole galactic Empire, and if they didn’t state their world numbers, we would likely assume they would have trillions of worlds as well.
The Imperium of man has a significant amount of advantages on the Star People, like FTL travel, psychic future prediction, the Astronomicon, Exterminatus level weaponry being commonplace
And Qu have Necron level of technology combined with Tyranid level of gene manipulation. Breeding genius commanders, their own super-soldiers and giving Pariah gene after discovering it in humans will most likely guarantee they will win. And btw, Exterminatus is last resort.
I still doubt the Qu would win, but Exterminatus this and Exterminatus that gets pretty old. 40k is a franchise that somehow always manages to force ground fighting and sword fights despite massive technology that should cause fights to be almost entirely in space. It does this to sell a tabletop game. People take it way too seriously. It's supposed to be fun.
They just want angry genocidal man with insignia to press red button so billions would die. Even tho inuniverse you almost certainly need to get permit from higher-ups to use several megatons of expensive planet-destroying weapons. And I'm not even going to explain how much specific parties in Imperium will be pissed by this, if you exterminate one of their worlds.
Aren't like necrons able to FTL,time manipulation,control dimensions and other things? the Qu are like rats compared to necrons if his is true
Necrons brute force their way into and out of the web way.
My theory is that they just don't go that far, even tho they have all necessary technology to do so. Even Necrons themselves dont really spend such powerful artifacts on every planet, after all they are C'than shards that are limited in numbers. Qu most likely possess the tech, but did they need it to destroy local DET mankind? Not really.
I feel like you're overselling the Qu. They haven't demonstrated anything near necron levels of tech (Massively FTL, Space and Time manip, weirder things like the Celestial Orrery and no one is going to convince me the Qu dont get folded by the Void Dragon). Secondly, discovering the paraiah gene is unlikely to be a thing they just come across and understand given how insanely rare it is (i believe inquisitor Vale described it as being "as rare to psykers as psykers are to normal people"). Beyond that they have no inherent resistance to psykers, and the mothballed dark age tech the Mechanicus has is very likely to give them issues when you consider how much faster the imperial logistical chain is (as ironic as that is). The Qu are just out sped and drowned in a tide of Las bolts, psyker lightning and good old fashioned cyclonic torpedoes. Ps. If the Qu are half the threat you're billing them as exterminatus is 100% on the table. "Better burn it then let the alien have it" is 110% the mindset of the inquisition if they know they can't keep it and won't be able to take it.
You, people, unimaginably deluded about Necron capabilities. 1. The reality-fucking tech Necron have is Cthan-powered, extremely rare, and not all Necrons possess it because Necrons also have Dynastical hierarchy, and the most prominent ones are the ones who have said tech. If every Necron Lords all over Galaxy would possess said tech, Imperium would guarantee to lose every fucking world where Tomb would be discovered. No amount of Warp fuckery or billions and trillions of lasguns won't stop army that can control time itself. 2. Pariah genes can be potentially have specific prerequisites that needs to be met for Pariah to appear. And obtaining isn't that hard, Inquisition would probably send some Culexus Assasin, mistakenly thinking that xenos probably have psykers. And even if not, Null-Fields are in realm of possibility still, pretty possible tech to block psykers and banish Ruinous Powers. 3. The Imperial Logistical chain doesn't have problems. Problems are Imperial bureaucracy and the fact that orders from Terra come centuries and millennia later. Entire Guard Regiments just sit on their asses, get married, die, and only next generation will receive order for relocation for war. Do you think such communication is effective? It is also not stated how much FTL Qu actually was, but considering that only some planets managed to give some resistance, AFTER mankind already knew who attacks them, it will be somewhat problematic to fight enemy who will know if not everything, at least 90% about your physiology. After that it's pretty much arms race, which Imperium in his stagnancy guarantee to lose. 4. No, Exterminatus is last resort. Genocidal Inquisitors usually have a very bad experience of being decked by Space Wolves, other Inquisitors and in many cases by Lords of Terra or local Astartes Chapters. Even if enemy is dangerous, its forbidden to go MAD if there is a chance to save resources from planet. And dont even let me start at how much pissed AdMechs will be if one of their Forge Worlds will run ablaze because someone was murder-triggered. Not only AdMechs will be pissed, 80% of sectors imperial military will be pissed for destroying important world. P.S: 40K is overrated anyway. Since 80s, so many new sci-fi concepts were invented, every next one is more and more sophisticated and devastating compared to primitive terms that used by GW writers who try to mix dark fantasy with sci-fi. And that's considering, 40K was just a satire in beginning, and a Fantasy Battles in space.
Someone has a passing knowledge of 40k, but doesn't like it much and is bitter about people who go too far. Oof
Oh, and what are you are then? Imperium apologist? Culture war tourist? Or just here because "big guys with big guns"?
Nope, just a fan of both settings who happened to run across this discussion. Sounds like you might be one of those things you mentioned though - those people tend to be the angry, snappy type.
The only Imperium faction I enjoy are Imperial Knights, and people that were mentioned will mistakenly guess those are some fancy Astartes chapter. But no, its completely different branch of imperial war machine. And the one that is actually has some decency, unlike Astartes and, may the Emps forgive me, Krieg and Inquisition. I'm angry because you assumed after what I have written don't know what I'm talking about, but I have spent almost 15 years learning 40K.
Fair point - I'll take your word for it, and you have my apologies for assuming you might just be someone who had picked up a bit on 40k whilst getting annoyed about all the people constantly talking about it. In all fairness, my annoyance here is more at that last paragraph or so, where you are frustrated about people talking up 40k, while I see the same thing going on here with All Tomorrows. Scifi universes are inherently awkward to compare, not just because of technological progress, but because the laws of physics tend to work annoyingly different in each one, and because in some cases (40k's writers are particularly guilty here), the writers for a scifi universe don't have a proper sense of scope and depth, or at least, have differing understandings of it, and therefore it is inconsistent between settings, and even the real world (see Warhammer 40k post battle casualties over entire planets, compared to real world casualties in various historical wars as a shining example of this). I look through this thread and see people massively overselling both the imperium *and* the Qu. Weapons aside, the imperium is a bureaucratic nightmare, and likely wouldn't even bother to respond to a threat until the Qu had made a substantial dent in imperial space - all likely because of something stupid like a planetary governor being too proud to report a loss against aliens, or the message just getting lost in the paperwork for a thousand years. By the same token, even if the Qu were to absolutely clean the imperium's proverbial clock, I still don't know if we call that a win, or hell, if they'd even be able to do that. I say this because while the Qu are toted as being an immortal (I don't recall this off the top of my head, but I did see it referenced a few times in this thread), powerful, space faring race with plans that it would be *generous* to describe as long-term, they still ultimately are laid low by an intergalactic alliance, spearheaded by a *race that they previously overwhelmingly defeated*. As immortal spacefarers with plans that extend the scope of *eons*, planning for evolutionary change over exceptional periods of time, and possible interactions with the wreckage of previous empires and species should be one of, if not their *biggest* concerns, and yet they fail utterly to thoroughly wipe out the remnant technology and records of the space people, and also fail to anticipate an evolutionary comeback of the descendants of humanity. It may seem reasonable to us as readers at first to see someone overlook those things, but if your empire, and even your very *individual people* can live that long, then their minds and their plans should operate on that scope and scale. My whole point here, is if the Qu invade the imperium, what's to say they don't essentially do the same thing they did in their own setting? I mean, that seems very likely. And in that case, future evolutions of humanity's disparate genetic offshoots may find old records, just as they did in All Tomorrows, and then you just have the same scenario playing out again, but with more Imperium of Man flavor. Is that really a Qu *victory*? I wouldn't call it that. Hopefully this also is worthwhile proof back that I'm not just some shit troll, and have given things a fair share of thought as well, friend. P.S. God I hate the stupid "culture war" people. I can't blame you being on your guard there. 👍 *Edit(s) for grammar*
I know. In fact, Qu have the same problem Emperor has - underestimated their own creation, thinking it will not backfire if they will do horrendous crimes. My apologies as well.
and you know what happens 9/10 times the imperium faces off against the necrons? the necrons lose. because even with all the technology the necrons have, nothing beats the good old human spirit
Because authors want that.
I mean, perseverance of humanity is a theme in all tomorrow's as well - the scale is different, but the end result is similar. Humanity persists and prevails, albeit a bit pyrhically.
Exterminatus is small potatoes, the Spacers could destroy stars. The Qu would cut through the IoM like a hot knife through butter.
But the option for exterminatus is probably much more available than spacers destroying stars. All the we can’t say so for sure spacers probably have a harder time destroying stars compared to the instant push of a button for the Imperium
Yeah, I have to agree. The Qu are a threat FAR beyond anything 40k has to offer. The Star People were AT LEAST on par with DAoT humans, and the Qu destroyed them without a second thought. It wasn't even a war to them, it was a milk run. They didn't bother killing the Star People because they didn't have to.
I see no evidence the star people were on the level of the DAoT humans. They don't have FTL or time travel or time travel based weapons.
Being fair, it's explicitly stated that the Star People had weapons capable of destroying stars with ease, something which only the Necrons have. Also, there is no Warp equivalent in All Tommorrows, that's why FTL is impossible. So, not only would the Imperium lose their FTL, but all the psykers would be useless. Not to mention all the normal soldiers would feel dread at losing their souls suddenly.
Why are we giving the qu the advantage of warp not working? That literally kills the imperium immediately and is also a massive advantage that might allow the imperium a fighting Chance. The way the op describes the scenario I assumed the qu were invading the 40k galaxy so they would have warp and psykers still.
The Qu would likely quickly lose in that scenario tho. A species without FTL, or even the souls to use it, couldn't survive in 40K. This is just an inherent issue to power-scaling between universes with different laws of physics.
"This is just an inherent issue to power-scaling between universes with different laws of physics." Couldn't have said it better myself but i think i have to go with warp being included because otherwise what are we even doing? The imperium without warp would just collapse on its own without any interaction from the qu so the comparison is meaningless. At least with the warp option one side would actually have to defeat the other. The unfortunate reality is pretty much any setting with FTL will swamp any setting that doesn't have it so comparing them doesn't make sense unless somehow the non FTL setting has some insanely powerful tech that levels the playing field, but i don't see that here.
Same, it's cool to power-scale and imagine entire wars between vast empires, but sometimes it's just up to headcanon. I think it's up to individuals to decide who they want to win. There's too many variables.
I mean maybe I’m wrong but while the imperium does have ftl, their weaponry is still incredibly basic compared to what has to be assumed that the qu possess. The star people could blow up stars. The imperiums closest comparison is exterminatus. Glassing a planet and exploding a star are COMPLETELY different ballgames. The Sun is what, a million times bigger than Earth??? And the qu still washed over the star people with ease. Further, the imperiums strength in their universe is generally in numbers. They’ll just send wave after wave, millions and millions of people, to die in order to attain “victory.” Well, what happens when those waves just don’t do anything? Ftl or not, I would say the Qu have a solid chance of just creeping across the galaxy one world at a time and crushing the imperium. How are they gonna fight back? The Qu have conquered empires, ruled for billions of years. The imperium of man doesn’t learn, doesn’t change, they don’t innovate and invent new methods of attack and defense. I could easily see the Qu coming out on top here
It's not an inherent issue to power scaling, it's an inherent issue to comparatives being drawn between fictional uses in general. The *"power"* part of it is only because there are so many people hell-bent on asking "Could X Beat Y?" Like they never made it out of that middle school Goku vs Superman phase.
Hey I'm not really in this debate but I have a question regarding all tomorrows late book and I think someone here can help me. In the end there is mention of "star shells" or something similar. What does that mean? Dyson Spheres? If so I would have thought that stuff like that would have been invented long ago by the first empire of man/star people.
and the emperor of mankind
That would be a pay per view special I would pay to see.
The Imperium would fare like a tray of tater tots with me. They could last awhile, and they will extract a cost, but I will have my victory in the end.
With the Qu as the only threat, The Imperium would likely come out on top. FTL travel is a HUGE advantage that the Imperium have over the star people, and as well as their own genetic modification with Space Marines, 1 million worlds, Psychic powers and the Emperor, they definitely have a better chance than the star people. the Qu would likely get deep into Imperium territory and the war would like last a few hundred years as the Imperium can actually reinforce worlds that are under attack, and the Imperium is obviously well adapted to war unlike the star people. Eventually the The Qu would be pushed out of the galaxy, but not without catastrophic losses on the Imperium’s part
This is assuming they still have Warp access, which The Author (the in-universe character) explicitly states nothing like that exists within their world. Without the Warp, the IoM would be so cooked. With the Warp, it would require the IoM to completely change their tactics to rely on psykers (which I doubt considering how hateful of change and witches they are)
IMO That makes no sense to remove, the warp is integral to the imperium and comparing the imperium with warp to the imperium without warp is like comparing the US army to a single guy with asthma. The imperium would literally collapse the instant warp travel stops working. Everything in the imperium relies on warp. Food, weapons, workers, soldiers, political power, it's the entire reason the emperor is entombed on the iron throne eternally projecting the astronomicon, because he knows without it there will be another dark age of strife. It's like telling a modern country to fight a war but they also need to destroy every boat, train, truck and car in the entire country... They're going to starve to death. I'm kinda curious why you think this is happening in the All Tomorrows universe? As a nomadic species that goes around subjugating species then leaving when I hear "how will X fair against the qu?" I'm assuming that the qu are coming to them, not the other way around.
That's the point yea... The Imperium is only strong within their own universe. Acknowledging that fact is part of power-scaling. If we give the Imperium the Warp, the Qu have nothing to counter it with. It would be an instant defeat upon reaching the 40K universe. This is an issue with power-scaling universes with different laws of physics. Both sides wouldn't survive within the others' universe. The Qu might have better technology than the necrons, but they don't have FTL or the ability to create. That's game over for them.
I absolutely agree that the power scaling here is messy and comparing FTL settings to non FTL settings is almost impossible, But the Qu absolutely would survive on their own in the 40k universe, the Tau survive with barely having FTL and many parts of the galaxy have nothing to do with the major powers that do have FTL, they're allowed to hide and they can travel between galaxies. It sounds like the only problem is that everyone else is more powerful than the Qu because they have FTL (the Qu could technically develop it in the new universe btw) if they get themselves killed in that situation it sounds like they lost the exact scenario presented by OP, not because of the setting but because they were weaker when compared directly, it could be the imperium, it could be the necrons, hell it could be the orks, but the setting didn't kill the Qu. In the opposite scenario it's 100% no question the setting that is killing the Imperium.
Yea, but the Tau survived through being diplomatic and resorting to war as a last option. When talking about total-war between the Tau and Imperium (like in the Qu vs Imperium scenario), the Tau would lose very quickly. I do generally agree though. It's like comparing a great-white-shark to a brown bear. Both are strong, one even stronger (the great-white), but place a great-white in a North-California forest and have them fight? Yeah, there's no way the great-white is winning.
Yeah they probably both get steamrolled in each other's universe, but hey I dont wanna discount the qu too much. Maybe they capture a few backwater feudal worlds and capture warp ships before the Imperium and it's immense bureaucracy identifies and responds to the threat, then they subjugate and modify the humans and navigators so they have access to the warp too. Hell I feel a species like the Qu would pretty quickly get involved with warp fuckery. With how much they care about conquest and torturing their enemies Slaanesh + khorne would have a massive erection and possibly help them, Tzeentch might be interested in the creative mutations too. Next thing you know 500 years later they're shocked to find out they broke the navigators when they conquered that one planet called Tera. The Qu are probably too self righteous to do this but nothing's stopping them.
But to make that fair, we would have to take something away from The Qu in that case as that would just be nerfing the Imperium so The Qu could have an edge. We don’t know much about the Qu’s actual military, but judging by the Fact that the Colonials Planet managed to resist 2 times with no reinforcements, a Qu invasion of lets say a still alive Cadia WITH reinforcements, and with an actually experienced military would likely end in a lost battle if they eltries taking Cadia Alone.
I assume they mostly rely on having great exterminatus technology, so they might struggle in an invasion where they're forced to fight smaller targets like Imperial ships. We see from the picture of them that they're still using conventional arms, so it might be more even than I'm stating. Ultimately it's speculation on both sides.
Yea, i wish we knew more about the Qu military but they would still be able to use Space Marines the Guard against the possible Qu infantry. Tho im assuming any Imperial’s trying to board a Qu ship is a death sentence
Same, tho I understand why Kosemen left it vague when he wrote the book. It makes it more mysterious, but damn does it make power-scaling hard. Some Astartes terminators might be-able to board a Qu ship. I know they're able to survive while boarding Necron ships, so I'd give them a good chance to pull it off.
Honestly I don’t think the Qu are as powerful as people Make them to be compared to other sci fi. For example using the Galactic Republic or even the UNSC, if all there militaries clashed the Qu would likely stomp. But due to how slow paced invasions are in all tomorrows, sci fi with FTL can quickly adapt and destroy the Qu or any other factions in All tomorrows except the Asteromorphs. Although the Qu could maybe reverse engineer this tech, but even though I admittedly have no proof, the Qu seem to prideful to use the tech of another group.
The Qu lacking FTL and some of the more wild tech of the other civilizations always made me wonder why people think they stomp everyone. Especially when you consider the Star People weren't exactly a warrior society
We don't know a lot about the Q and their technology, but they will probably be the Imperium's worst nightmare. They likely have tech comparable to the Necrons while also having the biological mastery of the Tyranids and the genestealer cults. The Imperium is very vulnerable to infiltration and subversive activity, and the Q could easily create genestealer Esq infiltrators that destroy the Imperium from the inside. On top of that, the Q can also turn the few advantages the Imperium does have against them. Their genetic engineering skills means that all they would need is a single space marine or psyker or blank, and suddenly they could mass produce soldiers that counter anything the Imperium throws at them. If they got their hands on the Orks or Tyranids, they could maybe even recreate the shadow in the warp or the Ork's weird reality bending. There is nothing to suggest that the Q couldn't learn how to manipulate the warp once they are in the 40k galaxy, so I don't think those last two are outside the realm of possibility. I do think that out of all the factions in 40k, Chaos would probably deal with the Q pretty easily. Their obsession with genetic engineering and remaking the universe in their image seems like it would lead them right into the arms of Slaanesh, or potentially Nurgle if you lean into the cyclical nature of their invasions.
This is the best answer I read here.
Who’s to say they haven’t already fought against something Qu-like during the Great Crusade? To answer, I think they’ll take some losses at first but could potentially beat them in the long term
they would resist them 4 times
How long did the Star People lasted?
Less than a a thousand years as both sides didn’t have FTL. The Imperium FTL would likely Make the war quicker and deadlier for the Qu, as they can actually send reinforcements to there worlds and prepare world for an invasion as it takes such a long tome for the Qu to travel.
FOR THE EMPEROOOOOOOOR
Imperium of mam still is able to compete with eldar ,necrons and tyranids each of them geared for war and necrons could guve even qu run for their money Something imperium has on their side is mechanicum and their war machines along with fanatical zael Also another wildcard is catachan jungle fighters who are masters of asymetrical warfare and that's not to be underestimated Also mechanicum could in theory "rebuild" even gene. Modded humans
I don’t know how much would the Imperium resist, but I would assume the Qu would be evil enough to learn of their hatred for other species… and merge the defeated into hybrid abominations. Could you imagine an Astartes being left with its conscience intact while knowing he’s turned into some kind of pathetic worm that has to share body and crawl into caves with half an ork body?
From all I know, the Qu might be cooked. We don't know much about the Qu. They show up, mess with genetics, take 1000 years, and fly off. Then millions of years later get wiped out by an extra galactic combined force. FTL doesn't exist for them, so it's literally all sub light stuff. 40k has the Warp and just crazy logistics. Assuming that it's just the Imperium vs. the Qu. The Qu gets early victories, and the just sort of grind to a halt as the greater Imperium becomes Aware. Direction the Qu come from andd what Era it is also affects alot of this.
In my opinion, The Pre-Horus Heresy imperium could defeat the Qu, but if we are talking about Post-Horus Heresy imperium, they wouldn't stand a chance.
What’s the difference?
Both the Horus Heresy, the imperium had 18 loyal demigods leading 18 full space marine legions comprised of around 180,000 marines each plus dreadnoughts, tanks, etc. They had more advanced technology than they Post-Heresy counterparts even though it was 10,000 years prior. The 40k imperium has devolved into madness with chaos and the genestealer cults corrupting the slums of there hive cities. Also the imperium in 30k had far less competition with only the occasional xenos war to exterminate some uncooperative aliens. While the imperium now controls less of the galaxy and fights with Orks, Tau, Eldar, Tyranids, Necrons and Chaos.
It’s always Warhammer Fans that keep sucking off their Franchise, while i agree that the Star People weren’t geared for War they had weapons that would make any Warhammer 40k faction (except the Necrons since they have downright broken technology) shit their pants chief among them being GUNS THAT COULD WIPE OUT SOLAR SYSTEMS BY DESTROYING THEIR STARS. Any age that isn’t Dark Age of Technology Mankind is Screwed
Yea, but we have to make sure we are not blindly sucking off All Tomorrows. We don’t know if the star destroyers are just another weapon to them, and js as easy to use as Exterminataus or an extremely resource drainer just to use once. And again, FTL is thousands of times better than any cannons. It allows for better logistics, trade, information l, and reinforcements, somthing both sides lacked in the Qu War
Couldn’t agree more, idk what’s goin on in this thread
Yep they were trying so so so hard... I doubt they know the full lore of all tomorrow and how strong the humanity in it just to get played by qu...
I am a All Tommorows fan first, I like Sci Fi so both franchises are a joy for me to watch videos and read the book/books of. I just believe that mankind's peak is equal to the Qu's strength in there invasion of the milky way. Also, All Tommorows is written by someone eons after the actual events. This means like in paleontology as an example, there might be inaccurate information or misunderstandings on the commoness of the technology. Like the guns that can wipe of stars, it could if been a prototype or an infantry weapon. We don't really know.
Both will get wiped out If the Necrons actually untied and helped the imperium then its a easy imperium victory they most likely will and if the imperium starts losing they will probably blow themselves and the qu up
I love it when two of my passions meet
I dont think the qu are all that much worse than the drukhari. I would think the IoM would deal with them the same as everyone else, expend massive resources and wage an endless forever war theyre always just about to lose.
We dont know enough about the Qu to really know.
I think imperium actually loses harder than the star people because of one thing logistics the star people had infintely better logistics than the IOM
Forever with the Emperor. He's above an infinite hierarchy or higher infinities, sitting at tier 1-A or Outerversal.
I don’t think any amount of humans have any chance against the qu id give them legit 5 minutes tops in an actual battle
They'd probably lose but give up a fight. Any Warp based stuff would be their best shot as the QU never faced anything like it before. Apart from that though the star people had like better stand weaponry and was stomped so the imperium would be screwed.
I think the Imperium could definitely defeat the Qu
Woluldnt they destroy the Qu?
Depends. The Imperium of Man heavily relies on the existence of the Warp. Since All Tommorrows doesn't have a Warp, the IoM would lose their FTL and psykers. This would reduce them to a less advanced Empire than the Summer of Man Empire by a considerable amount. If we ignore this, and give them Warp access, the Qu still have much better technology than even the Necrons, all without the low numbers that the Necrons suffer from. The only way I could see the Imperium succeeding would be through heavy reliance on psychic energy, which the Qu lack any counter to. But that would require the Imperium to embrace witches and actually change something about their tactics... and that's not exactly on brand for them. Without the Warp, the Imperium of Man would do worse than the Summer of Man Empire, which had better technology. With the Warp, I'd give them a 30-40% of victory.