Not the jerk. You’re not obligated to like nor build a relationship with her. It would be different if you were outright mean to her but you’re not. Your brother needs to mind his business
It seems, to me, that your dad is not really concerned with how you feel and definitely prioritizes his gf. If he and girlfriend cared about your feelings, and weren't so selfish, they would be more respectful and answer your phone calls and texts.Also, it's interesting they moved 3 hrs from you!I think you had done an amazing job of being polite and respecting their boundaries for 12(?) Years. NTA
PS I also think it's incredibly rude of her to listen to all of his conversations w you. She could just listen in in beginning or end and leave him to speak w his daughter at his leisure. Talk about being polite /s
I’m also trying to keep in mind the possibility that Dad may be in an emotionally abusive relationship (I know this is purely speculation on my part). It sounds like this woman has isolated him from his loved ones, monitors his calls and switches from love bombing to demeaning him in front of others. If there is the chance of emotional abuse taking place it could explain why OP is being less hard on their father.
You raised a very good point. He may very well be in an abusive relationship. This may be something OP's family should look at. Just because he's a man doesn't mean he can't be abused just as easily as a woman. If he were a woman, I wonder how fast we would have noticed the isolation part of it and other tidbits throughout OP's narrative?
I think saying to your brother, you owe me an apology. Mom already did but you go to. I told her something in confidence and you went and tapped it at dad and his gf. You created this unnecessary drama because you just had to stir stuff up *Instead* of coming to me as an adult and discussing my feelings on the matter.
Dad, I have opinions. Those are them. I doubt you really care. I would appreciate it if you would actually limit gf being in on our convos. Love you. Her. Not do much. Not going to apologize for my feelings.
Sorry not sorry.
Sorry.
NTJ. Your brother is
Stop walking on eggshells to appease your dad’s gf, it’s ridiculous. She needs to grow up and all of you enable her behavior. Too bad if your dad gets upset and maybe he should grow up too.
“I’m sorry your feelings are hurt, but that was never meant to be shared with you. I’ve always made an effort despite my feelings, but (brother) decided to stir the pot and tell you something he had no business sharing.”
what does the brother gain from his muck raking? He gains righteous indignation and praise from dad and stepmother. Your brother is like those old gossips who sit around all day talking negatively about everyone and getting other idiots to get an emotional charge and act out to hurt people who have done nothing to them.
He feels insignificant in the real world and has nothing to be proud of.
OP is NTJ but brother is a POS.
No. You dont have to like everyone on this planet and not everyone has to like you. End of story. There is nothing to apologize for. Step mum may be sad or angry but there is nothing to do. Some people just clash
You said if you were the one to tell them these things you would have to apologize and that's not true. Your feelings are valid. You don't have to like her. Nta
This is your father. While I do not believe you are the jerk, I don't understand why you can't go by and pick up just him and take just him out to lunch as a father/daughter lunch. You can do this, if your father chooses not to let you, then you do not have to put anything further into any efforts with him. I would take your brother out to lunch one on one and have a nice chat with him as well and ask him what he was trying to accomplish with his little stunt. And remind him it is okay to talk about his own business but to stay out of yours.
GF doesn't really give my Dad a chance to be alone or speak on the phone without listening in. He isn't keen on real conversations about feelings either. The one time he did manage to go to lunch without her, he mentioned not always being happy due to her constant complaining. I told him if he isn't happy, he should break up .... that was over 5 years ago. My brother got upset with me for telling my dad to leave if they weren't happy. After that, I just kept my opinions to myself around them both.
Well, you SHOULD call her out for racism. Unless it would compromise one’s safety, everyone should always call out racism. It’s not “respectful” to ignore it. Respect is earned, and stop mother has actively spurned the right to any respect! Let the fights happen. Just use all the standard anti racism techniques, and keep your own self respect! (there are a few ways to keep the moral high ground by repeating simple sentences that show up others’ racism, that you repeat as a broken record. The ones for jokes are what I’m most familiar with, and have used successfully).
Talk about your childhood. If she objects to you mentioning your father’s previous marriages, say, “Why do you want us to pretend we didn’t have a childhood?” Keep asking questions that make it about her not wanting normal stuff. Only questions, preferably that she can’t answer without sounding like a jerk.
Why are you being so nice? She is building resentment and anger with and you just need to be honest with the two of them. If they cut you off oh well. Better than being a passive doormat and getting frustrated
I have step parents as my parents divorced when I was two. My stepdad’s okay he’s a lot older than my mother I’ve known him my whole life because he was my grandmas neighbor for 30 years. My dad’s second wife he’s divorced from now we had no relationship. That was on me I have anxiety issues and was used to shopping second hand for clothes and she would try to take me shopping at department stores for clothes but I didn’t know how to do it or what I wanted as she would buy designer for me. I’ve went to her family events but I have severe anxiety around new people. After these attempts she’d basically say hi to me and kept our conversations short she had told me she’ll never be a mother to me and I accepted that because my dad and I are close. I moved out of my dads at 14 because of my stepmoms kids. They were adult drug addicts and they brought the drama which affected me. My dad was married to her 15 years and I was never close to her. Thats okay though because if she tried eaves dropping on my phone calls or visits with my dad like that I’d have spoke up with the same concerns. NTJ.
NTA I wouldn’t even apologize. I told my sister something in confidence about my grandfather. She called my mom and told her. My mom calls me about it and I tell her I was venting to my sister. I didn’t plan to talk to my dad or mom about it. I knew they would just tell me my feeling is wrong. I learned to not talk to my sister about personal things.
Your brother owe you and your mom a massive apology. Also consider going nc with him or at least limit your interactions. Clearly you can’t trust him and even when you point out your legit concerns about stepmom’s attitude and bigotry he still chooses to like her and sees her as a good person. You have to wonder if he’s just too ignorant to see her for who she is or if he secretly shares her beliefs. Have you or your mother spoken to him since he threw you under the bus?
Sounds like your Brother is trying to **"score points"** with Dad's girlfriend. You don't mention WHY your Brother is "upset" with Mom and you, but it just seems petty and that he's a shit-stirrer and dramaLlama!
It's probably best for you to steer clear of your Brother for a while, likely looking like LC/NC. In regards to your Father, you should probably try to arrange a SOLO meeting (coffee at a cafe or lunch/dinner at a diner or nice restaurant and have a forthright conversation with HIM about your feelings. You don't OWE Dad's GF anything, not your time OR regard/respect, period, BUT if she's "got her hooks deeply" into Dad, she'll probably block you from having a relationship with him. THAT'S why you should "get ahead" of any backlash she may attempt.
Greatest of luck!
Love your wording! Sorry my mother is my safe space and I confided. She misspoke to my brother who ran to daddy now let the whole stepfamily punish me for having feelings… really raising children with backbone use to be considered doing great. Shame them at the family gathering and put an end to it… shame works greater then pretending to respect someone who’s never shown you any…
Really I would shame my father and explain it to him and tell him to put his gf on a leash you birthed me and never took vows to her the least you could do is stand up for your daughter…
As long as she feels validated though your own daughter doesn’t matter… grow a pair and run your house cuz I don’t want her or her kids anywhere near mine
So the real culprit is your mom, who spread gossip about you. You don’t know what anyone else has said. You only know what your mom did and assumed. All the info you have is from your mom. So I think it’s wrong of you to be upset with others when you don’t know their side, have not talked to them about it, and continue to only rely on your mom as the sole source of info. You also have lots of feelings about your dad, and wanting a better relationship with him, but you blame everything on his gf - when your dad is a full-grown man, making his own choices. I think both your mom and you have made bad choices. Your mom for being a shit-stirrer and you for sitting back, building up a ton of resentment towards your dad, yet blaming everyone else for it.
Now that they know you can quit being nice. Don’t be mean of course just indifferent. Act like she is a casual acquaintance.
NTA because you have nothing to apologize for. Feelings are feelings and nothing we can control. The only thing we can control is how those feelings make us act.
No but your dad is. First of all remember your dad is the one who owes you something not his wife. He chose to bring a racist women who won't let you all reminisce about your childhood due to jealousy. That's on your dad not her. It's always easier to blame someone else than your parents because you love your parents but at the end of the day it's on them not other people.
Your bother is just playing drama fueled sibling games. It's always best to ignore and move on because playing that game will just cause you misery. Again that's on the parents. Almost every sibling issues is due to parents treatment of the kids. Ask yourself why is it so important to your brother to be the favorite.
Nta. You are entitled to your opinions & feelings. You are entitled to vent about them as well. Your brother sounds like he’s 12. Of course there are ppl in this world we aren’t going to click with. The fact that you remain beyond civil shows that you put in more effort than all combined
No, but I’d go low contact with your dad and step mom because your dad makes no effort to really talk with you and tolerates a bigot, while your stepmom is a bigot and obnoxious.
I wouldn't go lc with dad, sounds like his gf is controlling and isolating him. He needs to know he has people that love him and that he can turn to if he needs help.
Your brother was upset with you, so decided to share information not his to share, for the sole purpose of stirring things up. What’s the reason you, your mom or some combo of both.
He may share one day. But he acted very immaturely and has effectively demolished 12 years of deliberate and thoughtful familial peace keeping on your part.
He’s either a shit stirrer, actually malicious or really mad at you. He’s the jerk. You are not. Sorry.
I wouldn’t tell him anything, you don’t want known to all, anymore. I’d also talk to my mom, make clear I don’t blame her, thank her for trying and request she never tell him anything about you or what you say, ever again. Or until you understand exactly what he was thinking, seems truly apologetic and can trust him again.
Updateme
1. Don't tell your mom anymore private stuff. She WILL tell others.
2. Tell your brother that if he wants to discuss you then he calls you. Don't discuss me with mom.
3. Next time your mom tries to bring you into "I said... he said... " bullshit you need to tap out.
I suspect your mom enjoys the drama of being in the middle of things and gossiping shit.
She's triangulating you with your brother and SHIT DISTURBING in her Ex's life.
No more discussing ANYTHING about.your dad and stepmom around your mother.
This is not rocket science that your mom is 'accidentally' passing on negative feedback about the stepmom.
While I appreciate your feedback, my Mom really isn't a gossip. She saw something was bothering me and asked if she could help. I told her my feelings and she offered advice. I've told my brother how I feel as well, hoping to understand what he sees that I don't.
I don't fully know what he was saying to my mom because she didn't want to pull me into their issues. It just upset her that my brother had apparently said something to her that Dad and GF had told him and he did try to talk to me and get my side before bashing me to our Mom. In the heat of the moment, she said something, but immediately informed me to prepare myself. Her telling him my confidences hadn't ever happened before and she felt awful about it.
ANd it was not even a bad thing to share, actually. If I were Dad's girlfriend I Would apologize to the daughter for making her uncomfortable. I can see some not self aware people not realizing they are acting inappropriately, until hearing it.
I'm curious, do you do yoga or pilates or are you like double jointed or something?
It's just the stretch to make this assessment is really quite something.
Honestly, your whole family, excluding your husband, sounds like a bunch of stressful, drama-inducing people.
Maybe take the exit they’ve shown you and stop trying to be around people who are awful to you.
Soft YTA. You should apologize to your dad for hurt feelings with the caveat that you have no idea what your brother said as you’ve never had a conversation with him about the wife, and you believe he’s just trying to make trouble between you.
This is a game of telephone, where you tell your mom something, she tells your brother, and he interprets it a third time back to your dad. With his own twist and biases. This is all hearsay.
Take your dad aside and have a conversation with him privately. I think you can apologize that his wife’s feelings were hurt but you Also need to defend yourself from whatever your brother made up about your statements to your mother.
Thank you. I would love to talk to my Dad, but she is always right there. He isn't strong with heart to heart conversations, and just looks at you like you're nuts when try. I can try again this weekend, but don't hold much hope in her leaving him by himself for any length of time. I will try to keep you posted after the second yard sale this weekend.
You’re 44. I assume your brother is about the same age. You’re adults. You have been respectful, held your tongue. You vented to mom, which is what moms are for. Brother broke confidence and told them.
No, you don’t need to apologize to anyone. Your brother should apologize, but he won’t. Is it worth a fight with brother? You said he had other reasons to be mean to you, to try to hurt you. He did it, and he doesn’t deserve any consideration. He’s was stirring the pot, waiting for your reaction, hoping he hurt you. Grownups don’t do that shit.
You were doing the adult thing by being cordial. I would just continue. Act like nothing happened. Brother doesn’t get any satisfaction and neither does SM. They will be frustrated because they are absolutely baiting you. And you’re not taking it.
Gray rock, they get no reaction. Reduce contact to bare minimum. No need to call when they don’t care to answer. You don’t have to *exclude them from everything, but you don’t need to *include them in everything, either.
You call the shots. You don’t *have* to appease anyone if you don’t want to. At 44, I was done with the drama. I see my sisters at big family gatherings, but those are few and far between. Parents are dead, siblings are far flung, and I don’t miss any of them. Drama, trying to start fights for the sake of fighting. It’s too draining for me.
NTJ I personally wouldn’t want to be around any of these people right now or help with the yard sale. Fake an illness if you have to.
If they have a problem with what your yr brother said, let them confront you and have it out. Feelings might be hurt, but it seems long overdue
Honestly. You’re the jerk for keeping your opinions to yourself. You should have spoken to your father about how you felt. Learn on to draw and establish boundaries.
NTJ. You were just being clear about your opinion on your mother-in-law and it's not quite fair they brought forward without your consent because you clearly trusted him to share such information with him. It just felt like a safe space for you and you felt betrayed.
NTJ, but don’t say you’re sorry you feel that way. It comes across horribly (and basically is just an f-you, I did nothing wrong - which you didn’t, but please don’t say that, it’s so disingenuous). Just say that other people talking about you and then getting hurt about it is a them problem and you have nothing to apologize for as you did not act disrespectfully towards anyone.
NTA
Your brother like dad's gf because they have similarly rude & manipulative personalities. She seems mentally & emotionally abusive of your dad, but it's his choice to tolerate it.
Don't waste your time apologizing. If they don't care enough to bring it up on their own, then it doesn't matter. I realize your mom slipped, but she needs to know in the future not to put herself as the middle man by trying to explain or mediate things involving you to your brother. If he asks her something about you or says something to her, then she needs to redirect him to take it with you himself. Same applies to you about things your brother does.
Be aware that your brother is trying to start crap bc he has nothing of greater value happening in his own life. Pretty pathetic. If he says anything on the upcoming weekend, the only apology you should give is "I'm sorry that you have nothing better to do with your time than try to cause unnecessary family conflict." Then ignore him/don't react as much as possible & go about your business. He's going to freak out more if you ignore him, but it'll eventually take away his power the more that you do it. Hyping you & others up is how he's trying to assert his dominance.
NTJ. If everything you’ve said about your dad’s gf is true, so be it. “Truth is the Light.” In her case, she knew that you were aware of her darkness but didn’t like it that other people were made aware of her true nature. Too bad. She should try being a better version of herself.
You are not the jerk. She is your dad's girlfriend, not his wife, and definitely not your mother. Even if she was his wife, you owe her nothing. Respect is earned, and it sounds like she has done nothing to deserve your respect. I'd tell her to go piss up a rope , but I'm a zero-tolerance asshole when dealing with this type of situation.
NTJ but dad, GF and brother are. Maybe this will give you the way out of spending time with people who treat you poorly. You are very considerate and it doesn’t sound reciprocated in the slightest. Maybe this situation, while annoying and avoidable is your way out of having to be the only adult in the room.
People who gossip make the tales worse than the original rendition. I suggest you have lunch with your Dad alone and just tell him all this, or even let him read your post. Talk it out honestly.
NTA. I'm going to say the thing that is on the Divorced Dad script: the phone goes both ways. Much like with my own father, your father doesn't seem to be putting in the effort to maintain his relationship with you. Even as adults, it is never our job to maintain the relationship between our parents and ourselves.
NTJ. It’s fine for your brother to like your dad’s girlfriend. Everyone should have the freedom to like or dislike a person for whatever reason. What isn’t fine is for him to repeat a conversation he had with your mother just to stir up trouble when you have spent 12 years making every effort to keep things civil. The question you need to ask yourself and your brother is why he did it. Is he just malicious or does he have something to gain from turning them against you? Could it be that he wants to cut you out of your father’s will in order to gain financially?
You’re too nice of a person.
NTJ.
But what is your brother’s problem? Does he have narcissistic personality disorder or something? That’s such a thing that NPD enjoy doing: starting trouble like that.
I’m guessing that a lot of people dislike your dad’s girlfriend once they get to know her. Feel free to maintain your space from her. And your dad needs to do better to communicate constructively with you. He can’t prioritize his annoying girlfriend all the time: he’s a dad so he needs to prioritize you too. But your brother is just a horrible, entitled person going out of their way to sabotage you like he did.
NTJ
>Well, recently my brother voiced his opinion about my not spending time with them more, and how I haven't tried to have more of a relationship with Dad's GF.
So your brother thinks you need to build a better relationship with Dad's gf.
Yet he then....
>my brother called and told my Dad and his GF what my Mom just told him,
>My brother was upset with both myself and our Mom for his own reasons, so decided to share what he had been told. In retaliation.
Your brother is a little drama queen bitch. He is purposely causing drama for his own hurt feelings.
CALL HIM OUT IN FRONT OF EVERYONE.
Not the jerk.
I would probably speak with your dad and his girlfriend directly. Here is a sample script:
*"Dad, (Girlfriend), my brother has been gossiping about things he heard about me secondhand. He didn't even ask me about my actual feelings. Instead, he made a bunch of assumptions and then picked a fight with our stepmom, and then he decided to get you involved because he wanted you on his side. He did that because he was annoyed with our mom, and took it out on me. He decided to lash out because he wanted to get back at everyone for his disagreement with our stepmom. That was wrong of him, and it wasn't fair to any of us. I find it all to be incredibly immature and ridiculous behavior, and I'm not interested in indulging him. I think you know that I have always made an effort to have a good relationship with both of you. That is really important to me. I'm not sure what my brother was trying to accomplish by causing trouble and spreading gossip, but I don't see why his issues should cause problems between us. If he has a problem with me, he can go ahead and discuss it with me like an adult. In the meantime, we can continue on as we were, before he attempted to divide us and cause problems."*
Your brother is counting on you not wanting to rock the boat.
I think you *should* rock the boat.
You have a right to your own opinions. Your brother does not get to decide how you should feel. You aren't obligated to think your dad's girlfriend is the best ever, and not liking her does not make you a bad person. You didn't talk badly about her, you didn't treat her badly, and it isn't your fault that your brother is behaving like a manipulative jerk. Don't let them railroad you into apologizing for opinions they don't even know for sure that you have. They have no right to decide what you are allowed to think and feel. It is none of their business, and the only reason they suspect that you dislike her is because your brother is being a manipulative, temperamental jerk.
In fact, your dad's girlfriend hasn't really behaved as if she cares about your opinion up until this point, so it is a bit much for her to be upset that her behavior has had the predictable result. Still, people are often hypocritical and foolish enough to get angry when called out for their unsavory behavior, and they will get angry at the person who disapproves of their behavior as if the disapproval and not the behavior is the problem.
You might want to speak with your stepmom about not getting drawn into these arguments with your brother. He is behaving in an immature and manipulative way, and she should be more careful about what information she shares with him. Clearly, he can't be trusted with sensitive personal information.
Consider going LC with your brother, or even NC. He should realize why but make sure he knows.
He knows you are being kind and polite to not cause issues, so he caused issues. He hurt your dad and step-mom to hurt you. Maybe express that to your dad too. Along with some version of "if she makes you happy then I will be happy for that, and I will respect her as my step mother. People get annoyed by things, sometimes petty things, and need to vent. I never wanted to hurt step-mom, I never wanted her to hear my complaints, and certainly not filtered through two other people, one of whom wanted to hurt me by hurting you."
ESH
You've already done a great job of indicating a lot of reasons your father's gf is a jerk. I'll add that instead of wordlessly glaring at you, she should address her issue with you directly.
Your brother is a jerk for stirring up the pot. He should have addressed his issues with you directly.
You're a jerk for gossiping. You said "Everybody should be able to vent without feeling the need to censor in case an outside party learns about it." This is simply not true. You might occasionally need to "vent". People need to talk things through with others in order to get their bearings sometimes. Once you have things sorted out, you seek reconciliation or justice as wisdom proscribes. There's a big difference between that and habitually talking trash about someone in secret. You've been doing the latter for years, with no less than **her husband's ex wife**. If you have a problem with someone you address it with them directly.
It seems like there might be a pattern in this family...
Edit: I said step mom instead of dad's gf.
I normally do follow those rules, but when I said something, my Mom saw something was upsetting me. I don't really like to include her in their issues because it doesn't affect her, but sometimes we all need to vent. I was also hoping to learn if I was overreacting, and to get her advice.
That rule applies in general society but there is nothing wrong with discussing one's feelings and opinions (negative and positive) with family members.
I have considered explaining my feelings, but since she is always around, it is hard to do. I don't want to make his life difficult by saying something that would upset her. I understand that I should open up more to him, but I worry about her reaction towards him.
Maybe have someone distract her to give you a chance to talk to him in private. Just be careful, she'll question him about what was said and he could tell her things you don't want her to know.
She is unhappy with the relationship she has with her dad, but all she does is passive-aggressively complain to others while still being unhappy with her relationship.
Her current relationship (or lack thereof) with her dad is all on her. She hasn't done anything to try to fix it but complain to everyone but the person who could change it.
If she is not willing to try to fix the relationship with her dad, which will start with her saying something like "here is why I am not happy with the relationship we have with each other", then it is all on her.
OP - this sounds exhausting. It’s time to grow up and stand up for yourself. TELL you dad and his gf exactly how you feel. You won’t be walking on eggshells and they’ll learn the truth
If you do not confront them, yeah. You would be the jerk
Do this for yourself. Please
Not the jerk. You’re not obligated to like nor build a relationship with her. It would be different if you were outright mean to her but you’re not. Your brother needs to mind his business
NTJ. If it comes up the response should be ”did I say that? I don’t recall having that discussion with you”.
Excellent response. NTJ
This. Right HERE.
It seems, to me, that your dad is not really concerned with how you feel and definitely prioritizes his gf. If he and girlfriend cared about your feelings, and weren't so selfish, they would be more respectful and answer your phone calls and texts.Also, it's interesting they moved 3 hrs from you!I think you had done an amazing job of being polite and respecting their boundaries for 12(?) Years. NTA
PS I also think it's incredibly rude of her to listen to all of his conversations w you. She could just listen in in beginning or end and leave him to speak w his daughter at his leisure. Talk about being polite /s
I’m also trying to keep in mind the possibility that Dad may be in an emotionally abusive relationship (I know this is purely speculation on my part). It sounds like this woman has isolated him from his loved ones, monitors his calls and switches from love bombing to demeaning him in front of others. If there is the chance of emotional abuse taking place it could explain why OP is being less hard on their father.
You raised a very good point. He may very well be in an abusive relationship. This may be something OP's family should look at. Just because he's a man doesn't mean he can't be abused just as easily as a woman. If he were a woman, I wonder how fast we would have noticed the isolation part of it and other tidbits throughout OP's narrative?
It takes 2 people to build a relationship.
& one doesn’t want to
NTA. Your brother, is your step mother's eyes and ears into your mother's household.
Bingo!! Brother needs to be on an info restricted diet.
I think saying to your brother, you owe me an apology. Mom already did but you go to. I told her something in confidence and you went and tapped it at dad and his gf. You created this unnecessary drama because you just had to stir stuff up *Instead* of coming to me as an adult and discussing my feelings on the matter. Dad, I have opinions. Those are them. I doubt you really care. I would appreciate it if you would actually limit gf being in on our convos. Love you. Her. Not do much. Not going to apologize for my feelings. Sorry not sorry. Sorry. NTJ. Your brother is
This right here should be the top answer!
Stop walking on eggshells to appease your dad’s gf, it’s ridiculous. She needs to grow up and all of you enable her behavior. Too bad if your dad gets upset and maybe he should grow up too.
God forbid anyone cause discomfort for a man who, at the very least, condones a vicious racist!
No the ah is a tossup between your brother and dad’s gf
“I’m sorry your feelings are hurt, but that was never meant to be shared with you. I’ve always made an effort despite my feelings, but (brother) decided to stir the pot and tell you something he had no business sharing.”
NTA. Your brother is, though. What dies he gain from being a tattle tale?
what does the brother gain from his muck raking? He gains righteous indignation and praise from dad and stepmother. Your brother is like those old gossips who sit around all day talking negatively about everyone and getting other idiots to get an emotional charge and act out to hurt people who have done nothing to them. He feels insignificant in the real world and has nothing to be proud of. OP is NTJ but brother is a POS.
Favor from Dad & gf.
No. You dont have to like everyone on this planet and not everyone has to like you. End of story. There is nothing to apologize for. Step mum may be sad or angry but there is nothing to do. Some people just clash
You said if you were the one to tell them these things you would have to apologize and that's not true. Your feelings are valid. You don't have to like her. Nta
This is your father. While I do not believe you are the jerk, I don't understand why you can't go by and pick up just him and take just him out to lunch as a father/daughter lunch. You can do this, if your father chooses not to let you, then you do not have to put anything further into any efforts with him. I would take your brother out to lunch one on one and have a nice chat with him as well and ask him what he was trying to accomplish with his little stunt. And remind him it is okay to talk about his own business but to stay out of yours.
His wife listens in on every phone conversation. Do you really think she's going to let him go out to lunch alone with his daughter?
GF doesn't really give my Dad a chance to be alone or speak on the phone without listening in. He isn't keen on real conversations about feelings either. The one time he did manage to go to lunch without her, he mentioned not always being happy due to her constant complaining. I told him if he isn't happy, he should break up .... that was over 5 years ago. My brother got upset with me for telling my dad to leave if they weren't happy. After that, I just kept my opinions to myself around them both.
Well, you SHOULD call her out for racism. Unless it would compromise one’s safety, everyone should always call out racism. It’s not “respectful” to ignore it. Respect is earned, and stop mother has actively spurned the right to any respect! Let the fights happen. Just use all the standard anti racism techniques, and keep your own self respect! (there are a few ways to keep the moral high ground by repeating simple sentences that show up others’ racism, that you repeat as a broken record. The ones for jokes are what I’m most familiar with, and have used successfully). Talk about your childhood. If she objects to you mentioning your father’s previous marriages, say, “Why do you want us to pretend we didn’t have a childhood?” Keep asking questions that make it about her not wanting normal stuff. Only questions, preferably that she can’t answer without sounding like a jerk.
YTJ but only for "keeping the peace" with a racist. Racists, and those who love them (making them racists, too), don't deserve peace.
NTA. Is there a possibility of getting a home care provider while your husband is away?
Oh, okay. I was wandering if I had said something over the top, lol! Hope you feel better!
Thank you!
I'm not sure why I need a home care provider.
I must’ve been sicker than I thought. I meant this for another post. Sorry
Why are you being so nice? She is building resentment and anger with and you just need to be honest with the two of them. If they cut you off oh well. Better than being a passive doormat and getting frustrated
NTJ but your father's girlfriend and your brother are. I wouldn't feel badly even if I had said those things to her face she is not a decent person.
I have step parents as my parents divorced when I was two. My stepdad’s okay he’s a lot older than my mother I’ve known him my whole life because he was my grandmas neighbor for 30 years. My dad’s second wife he’s divorced from now we had no relationship. That was on me I have anxiety issues and was used to shopping second hand for clothes and she would try to take me shopping at department stores for clothes but I didn’t know how to do it or what I wanted as she would buy designer for me. I’ve went to her family events but I have severe anxiety around new people. After these attempts she’d basically say hi to me and kept our conversations short she had told me she’ll never be a mother to me and I accepted that because my dad and I are close. I moved out of my dads at 14 because of my stepmoms kids. They were adult drug addicts and they brought the drama which affected me. My dad was married to her 15 years and I was never close to her. Thats okay though because if she tried eaves dropping on my phone calls or visits with my dad like that I’d have spoke up with the same concerns. NTJ.
I am so sorry you have had to endure that "relationship" with your step siblings and step mother.
NTA I wouldn’t even apologize. I told my sister something in confidence about my grandfather. She called my mom and told her. My mom calls me about it and I tell her I was venting to my sister. I didn’t plan to talk to my dad or mom about it. I knew they would just tell me my feeling is wrong. I learned to not talk to my sister about personal things.
Your brother owe you and your mom a massive apology. Also consider going nc with him or at least limit your interactions. Clearly you can’t trust him and even when you point out your legit concerns about stepmom’s attitude and bigotry he still chooses to like her and sees her as a good person. You have to wonder if he’s just too ignorant to see her for who she is or if he secretly shares her beliefs. Have you or your mother spoken to him since he threw you under the bus?
Sounds like your Brother is trying to **"score points"** with Dad's girlfriend. You don't mention WHY your Brother is "upset" with Mom and you, but it just seems petty and that he's a shit-stirrer and dramaLlama! It's probably best for you to steer clear of your Brother for a while, likely looking like LC/NC. In regards to your Father, you should probably try to arrange a SOLO meeting (coffee at a cafe or lunch/dinner at a diner or nice restaurant and have a forthright conversation with HIM about your feelings. You don't OWE Dad's GF anything, not your time OR regard/respect, period, BUT if she's "got her hooks deeply" into Dad, she'll probably block you from having a relationship with him. THAT'S why you should "get ahead" of any backlash she may attempt. Greatest of luck!
Love your wording! Sorry my mother is my safe space and I confided. She misspoke to my brother who ran to daddy now let the whole stepfamily punish me for having feelings… really raising children with backbone use to be considered doing great. Shame them at the family gathering and put an end to it… shame works greater then pretending to respect someone who’s never shown you any…
Really I would shame my father and explain it to him and tell him to put his gf on a leash you birthed me and never took vows to her the least you could do is stand up for your daughter…
As long as she feels validated though your own daughter doesn’t matter… grow a pair and run your house cuz I don’t want her or her kids anywhere near mine
Personally, I would lean into it, but that’s just me.
Not the jerk. He shared information that was not his to share.
So the real culprit is your mom, who spread gossip about you. You don’t know what anyone else has said. You only know what your mom did and assumed. All the info you have is from your mom. So I think it’s wrong of you to be upset with others when you don’t know their side, have not talked to them about it, and continue to only rely on your mom as the sole source of info. You also have lots of feelings about your dad, and wanting a better relationship with him, but you blame everything on his gf - when your dad is a full-grown man, making his own choices. I think both your mom and you have made bad choices. Your mom for being a shit-stirrer and you for sitting back, building up a ton of resentment towards your dad, yet blaming everyone else for it.
Now that they know you can quit being nice. Don’t be mean of course just indifferent. Act like she is a casual acquaintance. NTA because you have nothing to apologize for. Feelings are feelings and nothing we can control. The only thing we can control is how those feelings make us act.
No but your dad is. First of all remember your dad is the one who owes you something not his wife. He chose to bring a racist women who won't let you all reminisce about your childhood due to jealousy. That's on your dad not her. It's always easier to blame someone else than your parents because you love your parents but at the end of the day it's on them not other people. Your bother is just playing drama fueled sibling games. It's always best to ignore and move on because playing that game will just cause you misery. Again that's on the parents. Almost every sibling issues is due to parents treatment of the kids. Ask yourself why is it so important to your brother to be the favorite.
Nta. You are entitled to your opinions & feelings. You are entitled to vent about them as well. Your brother sounds like he’s 12. Of course there are ppl in this world we aren’t going to click with. The fact that you remain beyond civil shows that you put in more effort than all combined
Wow! Your brother carries a giant stick and uses it to stir the shit.
No, but I’d go low contact with your dad and step mom because your dad makes no effort to really talk with you and tolerates a bigot, while your stepmom is a bigot and obnoxious.
I wouldn't go lc with dad, sounds like his gf is controlling and isolating him. He needs to know he has people that love him and that he can turn to if he needs help.
That would be hard to communicate since she’s always around.
Your brother was upset with you, so decided to share information not his to share, for the sole purpose of stirring things up. What’s the reason you, your mom or some combo of both. He may share one day. But he acted very immaturely and has effectively demolished 12 years of deliberate and thoughtful familial peace keeping on your part. He’s either a shit stirrer, actually malicious or really mad at you. He’s the jerk. You are not. Sorry. I wouldn’t tell him anything, you don’t want known to all, anymore. I’d also talk to my mom, make clear I don’t blame her, thank her for trying and request she never tell him anything about you or what you say, ever again. Or until you understand exactly what he was thinking, seems truly apologetic and can trust him again. Updateme
If you need a shovel, I can hand you one. Just don't bring it back to me.
Lol!!
1. Don't tell your mom anymore private stuff. She WILL tell others. 2. Tell your brother that if he wants to discuss you then he calls you. Don't discuss me with mom. 3. Next time your mom tries to bring you into "I said... he said... " bullshit you need to tap out. I suspect your mom enjoys the drama of being in the middle of things and gossiping shit. She's triangulating you with your brother and SHIT DISTURBING in her Ex's life. No more discussing ANYTHING about.your dad and stepmom around your mother. This is not rocket science that your mom is 'accidentally' passing on negative feedback about the stepmom.
She did this ONCE in 12 years. You are jumping to a lot of conclusions.
While I appreciate your feedback, my Mom really isn't a gossip. She saw something was bothering me and asked if she could help. I told her my feelings and she offered advice. I've told my brother how I feel as well, hoping to understand what he sees that I don't. I don't fully know what he was saying to my mom because she didn't want to pull me into their issues. It just upset her that my brother had apparently said something to her that Dad and GF had told him and he did try to talk to me and get my side before bashing me to our Mom. In the heat of the moment, she said something, but immediately informed me to prepare myself. Her telling him my confidences hadn't ever happened before and she felt awful about it.
ANd it was not even a bad thing to share, actually. If I were Dad's girlfriend I Would apologize to the daughter for making her uncomfortable. I can see some not self aware people not realizing they are acting inappropriately, until hearing it.
That's a ridiculous set of assumptions about OP's mom.
I'm curious, do you do yoga or pilates or are you like double jointed or something? It's just the stretch to make this assessment is really quite something.
Yeah, they need to get some boundaries.
Honestly, your whole family, excluding your husband, sounds like a bunch of stressful, drama-inducing people. Maybe take the exit they’ve shown you and stop trying to be around people who are awful to you.
How many times are you going to post this on different sites?
People commonly do that when they are looking for feedback and aren’t getting much on other subs.
The first person to comment hit the nail on the head. I really wanted feedback from a variety of people. Apologies if that bothered you.
Soft YTA. You should apologize to your dad for hurt feelings with the caveat that you have no idea what your brother said as you’ve never had a conversation with him about the wife, and you believe he’s just trying to make trouble between you. This is a game of telephone, where you tell your mom something, she tells your brother, and he interprets it a third time back to your dad. With his own twist and biases. This is all hearsay. Take your dad aside and have a conversation with him privately. I think you can apologize that his wife’s feelings were hurt but you Also need to defend yourself from whatever your brother made up about your statements to your mother.
Thank you. I would love to talk to my Dad, but she is always right there. He isn't strong with heart to heart conversations, and just looks at you like you're nuts when try. I can try again this weekend, but don't hold much hope in her leaving him by himself for any length of time. I will try to keep you posted after the second yard sale this weekend.
Yes, please update. Good luck chatting with your dad.
You’re 44. I assume your brother is about the same age. You’re adults. You have been respectful, held your tongue. You vented to mom, which is what moms are for. Brother broke confidence and told them. No, you don’t need to apologize to anyone. Your brother should apologize, but he won’t. Is it worth a fight with brother? You said he had other reasons to be mean to you, to try to hurt you. He did it, and he doesn’t deserve any consideration. He’s was stirring the pot, waiting for your reaction, hoping he hurt you. Grownups don’t do that shit. You were doing the adult thing by being cordial. I would just continue. Act like nothing happened. Brother doesn’t get any satisfaction and neither does SM. They will be frustrated because they are absolutely baiting you. And you’re not taking it. Gray rock, they get no reaction. Reduce contact to bare minimum. No need to call when they don’t care to answer. You don’t have to *exclude them from everything, but you don’t need to *include them in everything, either. You call the shots. You don’t *have* to appease anyone if you don’t want to. At 44, I was done with the drama. I see my sisters at big family gatherings, but those are few and far between. Parents are dead, siblings are far flung, and I don’t miss any of them. Drama, trying to start fights for the sake of fighting. It’s too draining for me.
NTJ I personally wouldn’t want to be around any of these people right now or help with the yard sale. Fake an illness if you have to. If they have a problem with what your yr brother said, let them confront you and have it out. Feelings might be hurt, but it seems long overdue
UPDATEME!
I will post an update after the yard sale tomorrow.
Honestly. You’re the jerk for keeping your opinions to yourself. You should have spoken to your father about how you felt. Learn on to draw and establish boundaries.
NTJ. You were just being clear about your opinion on your mother-in-law and it's not quite fair they brought forward without your consent because you clearly trusted him to share such information with him. It just felt like a safe space for you and you felt betrayed.
NTJ, but don’t say you’re sorry you feel that way. It comes across horribly (and basically is just an f-you, I did nothing wrong - which you didn’t, but please don’t say that, it’s so disingenuous). Just say that other people talking about you and then getting hurt about it is a them problem and you have nothing to apologize for as you did not act disrespectfully towards anyone.
Fuck yes. Thank you for being sane. NTJ.
Updateme
snowflakes. pretty little snowflakes
NTA Your brother like dad's gf because they have similarly rude & manipulative personalities. She seems mentally & emotionally abusive of your dad, but it's his choice to tolerate it. Don't waste your time apologizing. If they don't care enough to bring it up on their own, then it doesn't matter. I realize your mom slipped, but she needs to know in the future not to put herself as the middle man by trying to explain or mediate things involving you to your brother. If he asks her something about you or says something to her, then she needs to redirect him to take it with you himself. Same applies to you about things your brother does. Be aware that your brother is trying to start crap bc he has nothing of greater value happening in his own life. Pretty pathetic. If he says anything on the upcoming weekend, the only apology you should give is "I'm sorry that you have nothing better to do with your time than try to cause unnecessary family conflict." Then ignore him/don't react as much as possible & go about your business. He's going to freak out more if you ignore him, but it'll eventually take away his power the more that you do it. Hyping you & others up is how he's trying to assert his dominance.
NTJ
NTJ. If everything you’ve said about your dad’s gf is true, so be it. “Truth is the Light.” In her case, she knew that you were aware of her darkness but didn’t like it that other people were made aware of her true nature. Too bad. She should try being a better version of herself.
You are not the jerk. She is your dad's girlfriend, not his wife, and definitely not your mother. Even if she was his wife, you owe her nothing. Respect is earned, and it sounds like she has done nothing to deserve your respect. I'd tell her to go piss up a rope , but I'm a zero-tolerance asshole when dealing with this type of situation.
NTJ but dad, GF and brother are. Maybe this will give you the way out of spending time with people who treat you poorly. You are very considerate and it doesn’t sound reciprocated in the slightest. Maybe this situation, while annoying and avoidable is your way out of having to be the only adult in the room.
People who gossip make the tales worse than the original rendition. I suggest you have lunch with your Dad alone and just tell him all this, or even let him read your post. Talk it out honestly.
Your brother is really vicious.
NTA. I'm going to say the thing that is on the Divorced Dad script: the phone goes both ways. Much like with my own father, your father doesn't seem to be putting in the effort to maintain his relationship with you. Even as adults, it is never our job to maintain the relationship between our parents and ourselves.
NTJ. It’s fine for your brother to like your dad’s girlfriend. Everyone should have the freedom to like or dislike a person for whatever reason. What isn’t fine is for him to repeat a conversation he had with your mother just to stir up trouble when you have spent 12 years making every effort to keep things civil. The question you need to ask yourself and your brother is why he did it. Is he just malicious or does he have something to gain from turning them against you? Could it be that he wants to cut you out of your father’s will in order to gain financially?
NTJ. Your brother, no offense, is an idiot. Your brother needs to apologize.
You’re too nice of a person. NTJ. But what is your brother’s problem? Does he have narcissistic personality disorder or something? That’s such a thing that NPD enjoy doing: starting trouble like that. I’m guessing that a lot of people dislike your dad’s girlfriend once they get to know her. Feel free to maintain your space from her. And your dad needs to do better to communicate constructively with you. He can’t prioritize his annoying girlfriend all the time: he’s a dad so he needs to prioritize you too. But your brother is just a horrible, entitled person going out of their way to sabotage you like he did.
NTJ >Well, recently my brother voiced his opinion about my not spending time with them more, and how I haven't tried to have more of a relationship with Dad's GF. So your brother thinks you need to build a better relationship with Dad's gf. Yet he then.... >my brother called and told my Dad and his GF what my Mom just told him, >My brother was upset with both myself and our Mom for his own reasons, so decided to share what he had been told. In retaliation. Your brother is a little drama queen bitch. He is purposely causing drama for his own hurt feelings. CALL HIM OUT IN FRONT OF EVERYONE.
There’s nothing to apologise for. Just keep it cordial. NTA
Not the jerk. I would probably speak with your dad and his girlfriend directly. Here is a sample script: *"Dad, (Girlfriend), my brother has been gossiping about things he heard about me secondhand. He didn't even ask me about my actual feelings. Instead, he made a bunch of assumptions and then picked a fight with our stepmom, and then he decided to get you involved because he wanted you on his side. He did that because he was annoyed with our mom, and took it out on me. He decided to lash out because he wanted to get back at everyone for his disagreement with our stepmom. That was wrong of him, and it wasn't fair to any of us. I find it all to be incredibly immature and ridiculous behavior, and I'm not interested in indulging him. I think you know that I have always made an effort to have a good relationship with both of you. That is really important to me. I'm not sure what my brother was trying to accomplish by causing trouble and spreading gossip, but I don't see why his issues should cause problems between us. If he has a problem with me, he can go ahead and discuss it with me like an adult. In the meantime, we can continue on as we were, before he attempted to divide us and cause problems."* Your brother is counting on you not wanting to rock the boat. I think you *should* rock the boat. You have a right to your own opinions. Your brother does not get to decide how you should feel. You aren't obligated to think your dad's girlfriend is the best ever, and not liking her does not make you a bad person. You didn't talk badly about her, you didn't treat her badly, and it isn't your fault that your brother is behaving like a manipulative jerk. Don't let them railroad you into apologizing for opinions they don't even know for sure that you have. They have no right to decide what you are allowed to think and feel. It is none of their business, and the only reason they suspect that you dislike her is because your brother is being a manipulative, temperamental jerk. In fact, your dad's girlfriend hasn't really behaved as if she cares about your opinion up until this point, so it is a bit much for her to be upset that her behavior has had the predictable result. Still, people are often hypocritical and foolish enough to get angry when called out for their unsavory behavior, and they will get angry at the person who disapproves of their behavior as if the disapproval and not the behavior is the problem. You might want to speak with your stepmom about not getting drawn into these arguments with your brother. He is behaving in an immature and manipulative way, and she should be more careful about what information she shares with him. Clearly, he can't be trusted with sensitive personal information.
Consider going LC with your brother, or even NC. He should realize why but make sure he knows. He knows you are being kind and polite to not cause issues, so he caused issues. He hurt your dad and step-mom to hurt you. Maybe express that to your dad too. Along with some version of "if she makes you happy then I will be happy for that, and I will respect her as my step mother. People get annoyed by things, sometimes petty things, and need to vent. I never wanted to hurt step-mom, I never wanted her to hear my complaints, and certainly not filtered through two other people, one of whom wanted to hurt me by hurting you."
ESH You've already done a great job of indicating a lot of reasons your father's gf is a jerk. I'll add that instead of wordlessly glaring at you, she should address her issue with you directly. Your brother is a jerk for stirring up the pot. He should have addressed his issues with you directly. You're a jerk for gossiping. You said "Everybody should be able to vent without feeling the need to censor in case an outside party learns about it." This is simply not true. You might occasionally need to "vent". People need to talk things through with others in order to get their bearings sometimes. Once you have things sorted out, you seek reconciliation or justice as wisdom proscribes. There's a big difference between that and habitually talking trash about someone in secret. You've been doing the latter for years, with no less than **her husband's ex wife**. If you have a problem with someone you address it with them directly. It seems like there might be a pattern in this family... Edit: I said step mom instead of dad's gf.
Not op's stepmother, it's dad's gf.
Yes, that's true. My bad. It doesn't change anything about my post except those two words. I'll edit anyway, because I'm feeling pedantic.
NTJ, but let this be a lesson : If you don’t have something nice to say, say nothing.
I normally do follow those rules, but when I said something, my Mom saw something was upsetting me. I don't really like to include her in their issues because it doesn't affect her, but sometimes we all need to vent. I was also hoping to learn if I was overreacting, and to get her advice.
That rule applies in general society but there is nothing wrong with discussing one's feelings and opinions (negative and positive) with family members.
My other go-to is - don't say something behind someone's back that you are not willing to say to their face.
YTA So, you have told everyone around you that you are unhappy with the relationship you have with your dad but your dad?
I have considered explaining my feelings, but since she is always around, it is hard to do. I don't want to make his life difficult by saying something that would upset her. I understand that I should open up more to him, but I worry about her reaction towards him.
Maybe have someone distract her to give you a chance to talk to him in private. Just be careful, she'll question him about what was said and he could tell her things you don't want her to know.
If you don't say anything to him, he will never know. As far as he knows, you are good with the relationship you have with him.
Huh? Her stepmonster sucks, and you're blaming OP? 🤦♀️
She is unhappy with the relationship she has with her dad, but all she does is passive-aggressively complain to others while still being unhappy with her relationship. Her current relationship (or lack thereof) with her dad is all on her. She hasn't done anything to try to fix it but complain to everyone but the person who could change it. If she is not willing to try to fix the relationship with her dad, which will start with her saying something like "here is why I am not happy with the relationship we have with each other", then it is all on her.
OP - this sounds exhausting. It’s time to grow up and stand up for yourself. TELL you dad and his gf exactly how you feel. You won’t be walking on eggshells and they’ll learn the truth If you do not confront them, yeah. You would be the jerk Do this for yourself. Please